Better Hair, Less Plastic: Why Dip is Changing the Shampoo Game

Sustainable haircare that actually works? Yes, please.

In this week’s episode, I’m chatting with Kate Assaraf, founder of Dip—the bar shampoo and conditioner brand that’s winning over luxury lovers and plastic-free skeptics alike. Kate’s not just a beauty founder. She’s a truth-teller, label-reader, and lifelong hair nerd on a mission to make sustainability approachable, affordable, and actually enjoyable.

We talk about:

• Why most bar haircare feels like a downgrade—and how Dip is different
• The real story behind essential oils, “natural” claims, and what clean beauty should mean
• How growing up with very little shaped Kate’s values (and her business)
• What it means to lead with integrity in a world of influencer marketing
• The soft power of small-town living, silly moments, and swims in the sea

Whether you're deep in the plastic-free life or just bar-curious, Kate’s story will inspire you to trust your gut, stay scrappy, and never settle for bad hair.

Timestamps:
00:02 – From bar skeptic to beauty CEO
00:09 – What no one tells you about “clean” ingredients
00:17 – Detangling without drama: Dip’s superpower
00:26 – Starting over after a broken business partnership
00:33 – Reframing success, money, and motherhood
00:45 – Why guilt-free sustainability matters more than ever

Connect with Kate:
Website: https://dipalready.com
Instagram: @dipalready

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To connect with Penny, get notified, or learn more, check out www.pennyforyourshots.com

- Follow Penny on Instagram: @penny4yourshots
- Or Facebook: Penny (Kuhlers) Fitzgerald

Transcript

Better Hair, Less Plastic: Why Dip is Changing the Shampoo Game

[00:00:32] Penny Fitzgerald: This week I'm joined by Kate Assaraf, founder of Dip the shampoo and conditioner bars that have officially converted two skeptics? Yep. Jeff and I have been using the products for about a month and we're hooked. What started as Kate's personal mission to ditch plastics turned into a full on calling to create salon quality hair care.

That's not only better for the planet, but actually better for your hair. Kate's not your average entrepreneur. She's witty, wildly transparent, and on a [00:01:00] mission to make sustainability approachable. No finger wagging, no greenwashing, just really good hair products that work. 

 We talk about her journey from bar skeptic to bar scientist. Okay, not officially, but this woman knows her stuff. The surprising truth behind essential oils. why DIP is designed to outperform luxury brands and the power of doing business with integrity.

Plus we swapped stories about growing up without much the beauty of small town life and how a silly moment with seashells and rum became one of her most cherished memories. If you've ever felt skeptical about sustainable swaps or wondered if you really can have great hair without all the plastic, this episode is your invitation to dip your toe or your ends into something new.

Here is Kate Assaraf 

[00:01:47] Kate Assaraf: Kate, how are you? Hi. I'm great. How are you doing? I'm good. My gosh. I love your, is that wallpaper behind you? Yeah, it's wallpaper. It's like really? It's like crazy. It's like, it's gorgeous. [00:02:00] Thank you. Thanks. Yeah, it's a, it was a very boring little room and now I just, I made it. I love it. Crazy. Love it. It's a great backdrop.

Thank you. 

How's your morning? I. It's great. Yeah, I've, uh, it's raining in New Jersey again, so it's every day for the next six weeks. 

[00:02:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Where are you based? I, I'm in Iowa, um, for the summer 

[00:02:24] Kate Assaraf: I love Iowa, by the way. Um, I've been there and it's, uh, I just had the nicest people. I've had 

[00:02:30] Penny Fitzgerald: the nicest people. Aw, that's awesome. Yeah, it's, I tell people it's a great place to live, but I wouldn't wanna visit, I. That's so funny. Kind of biased, you know? And when you live somewhere, it's like you take for granted the things that are cool, so Yeah, that's true.

You don't go visit fun places. You just kind of exist and do your thing. I hear you. It 

[00:02:53] Kate Assaraf: took me like 40 years before I got to the Statue of Liberty. People have time. It's like this is, this [00:03:00] thing is cool. Oh my gosh. So, where in New Jersey are you? I'm in Sparta, which is halfway between the Poconos and New York City.

Okay. 

[00:03:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's beautiful country out there. 

[00:03:11] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, it's really, really pretty. 

[00:03:13] Penny Fitzgerald: I love it. Oh, nice. That's the garden state part? 

[00:03:17] Kate Assaraf: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Lots of, lots of gardens and farms around here. Nice. 

[00:03:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Very cool. Oh gosh. Okay, so, um, business. Mm, back. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I was reading part of your bio. You have a a hair care company.

Is that correct? Yes. Yes. Well, tell us a little bit about that. 

[00:03:36] Kate Assaraf: Sure. Um, it's, uh, shampoo and conditioner bars is the bulk of our business. Ah, and, you know, a lot of times with sustainability, so we're plastic free, our, our bars, um, a lot of times people are really fed up with buying something that is sustainable, that makes them mist, the stuff that was in plastic.

And it was my mission to really get people [00:04:00] to. Move, switch over to shampoo and conditioner bars and stick with that change. So I made it so good that I barely ever talk about plastic in our marketing. 

[00:04:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

[00:04:10] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. That was the goal. It's 

[00:04:11] Penny Fitzgerald: just the quality of the product instead of Yeah. 

[00:04:13] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Why 

[00:04:13] Penny Fitzgerald: we're good for you.

[00:04:15] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, exactly. I, I wanted, I mean. I've made so many plastic free swaps that I've only, you know, I've only made once and I'll never, you know, I'll never buy that product again. Uhhuh, and really like that doesn't help people reduce plastic in their life at all. You know, if they buy something once and they're so mad about it, then they go back old habits, and that was my very lofty goal was to like, okay, I'm gonna not only make something that won't make someone miss.

Previous haircare, even if it was very highend luxury stuff, but also it's gonna save them a lot of money long term. Wow. And those were two, my two goals, and I think I've accomplished them. Um, our customers seem to think so, so that makes me really, really happy. That's very 

[00:04:56] Penny Fitzgerald: cool. So what, what brought you to that?

I [00:05:00] mean, what, what made you decide that this is what I wanna do? 

[00:05:03] Kate Assaraf: Oh, it was frustration. And I think sometimes the best stuff comes out of frustration. Mm-hmm. I had read, um, in 2014 that not only was plastic. Accumulating on the planet, but it was because it wasn't really getting recycled. But then I also learned about how it wa had adverse, um, health effects, not only for humans, but also for aquatic life and animal life.

Mm-hmm. And I wanted to, um, reduce my plastic. I started in 2014 on this mission of just keeping plastic away. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was pregnant with my first son and I, I became very, you know, this is like, I'm gonna try and make the world a better place for my son. So I tried making all the swaps. Mm. I just was so I could make this, I could get rid of Saran wrap.

Right. And, and you, yeah. Um, the beeswax wraps or stacher bags I could get rid of, you know. Laundry detergent, buying lots of like jugs of it and switched to powder. Like that was fine. [00:06:00] The thing I really couldn't do was, was haircare. I switched to bar haircare and I was so angry about it and because I kept trying different brands and I was like, this is doing the exact opposite of what I, I intended to reduce waste and instead I have this like graveyard, this, all these tombstones of bars and I, I was just going back to the bottle anyway and, um.

I was like, I think I can solve this problem. Um, and so, you know, being a entrepreneur is like not a fun gig. Like it this fun, but it's really not. It's a calling. It's a calling. Yeah. That is exactly right. It is a calling. It's not like, yay. Like I was like, you know what? Gonna solve this? I get it. I'm gonna make sure that, you know, I make it so that no one is disappointed with what they've just purchased.

[00:06:49] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow, that's cool. 

[00:06:50] Kate Assaraf: So that's how it came about. 

[00:06:52] Penny Fitzgerald: That's amazing. So I, in telling your story, 2014, there weren't a lot of options back then. I don't think people were [00:07:00] even aware of, no. What was doing? 

[00:07:03] Kate Assaraf: It was a very small community, and I happened upon this information by accident. I was reading this book, um, it was called Boys Adrift.

I was pregnant with my first son. My brother gave me this book and he'd already had four children before me. And so he is like, you should read this book. It's about how to raise a son that's becomes a productive member of society. And one of the chat, they, they talked about like video games, they talked about boys not spending time in nature or hunting anymore.

And one of the things that they talked about was. Plastics affecting hormonal health. Really. And this was, you know, 11 years ago now. Wow. Yeah. Now starting to bubble into mainstream kind of mm-hmm. Knowledge. And I find that fascinating that that knowledge was out there and it's only, it took 11 years for people to become really aware of it.

Oh yeah. Like, it doesn't that blow your 

[00:07:52] Penny Fitzgerald: mind? It does blow my mind. Yeah. And. Well, even my own awareness of it has gotten [00:08:00] more acute, you know, over time. Yeah. But I, I read recently that the average American has a quart-sized bag speaking of plastics of microplastics in their brain. Yes. I've, I've 

[00:08:15] Kate Assaraf: read something similar.

[00:08:16] Penny Fitzgerald: What 

[00:08:16] Kate Assaraf: could possibly go wrong? 

[00:08:18] Penny Fitzgerald: That's, 

[00:08:18] Kate Assaraf: yeah, I know, like, it's, it's weird. It's, it's, it's very, very frightening and I. You know, you have children and you hope that those children get to get to live a healthy life. Like that's what you want. Mm-hmm. And you're like, I don't know. Everywhere I look, it seems like a nightmare.

And I wanna Yeah. You wanna protect them, but like they're, they're starting to find it in, in, you know, breast milk. They're starting to find it like, oh 

[00:08:43] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. 

[00:08:44] Kate Assaraf: Body can't even filter these micro microplastics the way they're supposed to. Right. Um, and so the only thing we can do as a species, as humans, humans, is figure out ways to reduce that plastic.

[00:08:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:08:55] Kate Assaraf: And, um, you know, hair care. I chose hair care because it's emotional. Like, you know, if [00:09:00] you have a bad hair day, a bad haircut, same job, you learn it, you lose your hair. It's true story emotional. And I was like, what if I kind of soft served this plastic free movement? People, I. With hair care, which is emotional and maybe they like it so much that they start to look for other plastic-free options.

It's a soft serve into, into, I like it. Yeah. I don't, I don't think Finger Waggling gets you there, and I don't think No things get you there. I think what really gets you there is like being like. Hey, this is really great. There's other great options out there. This, the store that sold it to you, like they also have plenty of other plastic free options.

Yeah. Like go explore, like have at it, you know? 

[00:09:41] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, yeah. Well, the scare tactics. Yeah. It, it gets your attention and maybe get you your attention enough to think about it a little bit more and Yeah. 

[00:09:52] Kate Assaraf: But it freezes you, it like puts you, you know. I studied economics and everyone thinks economics is about money, but [00:10:00] it's really about choice.

It's like, how do you choose between this and that? It's, it's really about opportunity cost and saying like, okay, you know, how does this information, how do people react to this information? Mm-hmm. And I found that anytime someone shows me like. You know, the, the hermit crab in the bottle cap or any of these things, it's like, my shampoo is not doing that.

You know? Yeah. Like, so for you to scare me into buying your shampoo by showing me this crab that's unrelated, I don't, I think people are smarter than marketers give them credit for, and I think that that marketing is lazy. I think it's lazy to do that to people, and it's just not cool. Yeah. Yeah. You know?

Um, yeah. It, it bothers me a lot and I see it a lot in sustainability and, um, you know, thankfully all my competitors are using that kind of marketing. Please stand out. Yeah, you guys do that. I'm gonna tell people like I'm, I'm gonna show them that this is really great and I'm not [00:11:00] gonna use any influencers.

I'm not gonna use any fake. You know, surrogate custom. I love it. Pretending to be customers of dip. Yep. Making videos. Anyone you see on the feed is pretty much already a customer that has paid for it. Um, and I think people appreciate that. They're, I think they're fed up with like the marketing machine right now.

Yeah. 

[00:11:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And I, I think the more time goes on too, that people are going to be more discerning. I think they're gonna be more aware of fakes, aware of, you know, even though AI is getting better. It's still, you know, genuine connection or a genuine person. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. The message is, um, is there, 

[00:11:41] Kate Assaraf: yeah, we, I mean, it is crazy to see the marketing pitches that come to me via like AI programs.

They're like, oh, you can tell. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. But I do think human beings are smarter. Um, yeah. You know, smarter than, well some are. [00:12:00] Yeah. You know. Yeah. There, there, there, there's a, there's a curve, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but what makes me really happy, it seems that like the people that finally find dip, um, and, and the products are read every page on the website, they go, they deep dive before they purchase.

And I really appreciate that. And I love, I love that the things that took me so long to write. People are reading. Oh 

[00:12:24] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. 

[00:12:24] Kate Assaraf: You know, exactly. Because they really wanna know who they're buying from and what, why and how things, how we came up with certain decisions about the product because um, a lot of that is kind of, I.

Cloaked in marketing in a lot of brands, um Oh yeah. Across all different categories. And I'm very happy to let people know like, Hey, we use synthetic fragrance. We do that because people don't know that a lot of essential oils are cold pressed with pesticides on the plant. Like they don't know. 

[00:12:53] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:53] Kate Assaraf: So you think you're thinking you're doing the right thing, like buying something that's essential oil based, all natural, but then you don't know that like.[00:13:00] 

The farming practices on that, on, you know, like an aggregate of farms, like they could have pesticides on that plant and then you're putting your pesticides directly onto your body without ever knowing. Mm. Um, kind of, you know, and since fragrance gets a really bad wrap mm-hmm. I am always explaining to people, I'm like, I don't go to the Church of Essential Oils for this very specific reason about pesticides and how much land.

Is needed to, to get a few drops of oil and what those farming practices are. And if it's, and if it's the kind of, um, if it's the kind, if that plant is native to a country that doesn't have nice labor practices, um, you don't know what kind of conditions these things are being farmed. And I mean, it's, there's so, there's so much when you deep dive into all different levels.

Um, but I'm, I'm happy to be as transparent as possible with my customers without putting myself at risk and just handing all, all my information over to a competitor. Oh, right, right, right. 

[00:13:59] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. [00:14:00] Well. 

[00:14:01] Kate Assaraf: Some people pretend to be students, they're like competitors and I can kind of figure who they are and they Oh, wow.

Certain things and I'm like, we don't share that information. Get outta here. You 

[00:14:10] Penny Fitzgerald: know? What a horrible way to live your life and be. Yeah. And grow 

[00:14:15] Kate Assaraf: your business by, yeah. And had I have, I. Had I not grown up so sarcastic and confrontational from New Jersey, you know, I'd let it slide and I'm like, no, this question's gross.

Like, go away. 

[00:14:28] Penny Fitzgerald: I love it. Wow. That's interesting. 'cause you know, being in Iowa mm-hmm. I'm very trusting of people. Oh 

[00:14:35] Kate Assaraf: yeah. 

[00:14:36] Penny Fitzgerald: But I'll be like, 

[00:14:37] Kate Assaraf: Hmm, really? 

[00:14:38] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:40] Kate Assaraf: You know what? You're not, you're kind, but probably not that trusting. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. If someone starts to be like. Hey, I need to know all the metrics of your podcast.

So I'm, you know, and you're like, no, you don't. There's no, do you really? Yeah, there's no, I don't think you do. Where that is actually helpful to you. Um, so I have a lot of that [00:15:00] too, you know? Yeah, 

[00:15:01] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah, exactly. I'll be kind but verify. Yes. Yeah.

Oh gosh. That's funny. You know, and when I was reading your bio, I just, I kind of feel like we already had things in common too. That was kind of fun. Yeah. Tell me, well, you said you grew up poor. Yeah, same girl. Yeah. Government 

[00:15:22] Kate Assaraf: cheese, 

[00:15:22] Penny Fitzgerald: kind of rocks. 

[00:15:24] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. We were in church, church funded housing. I think my mom paid like $20 a month.

Wow. Really low. Yeah. And part of, part of our. Earnings was like what part of the living arrangement? Uhhuh, um, we're in a very gross little cement bungalow. Um, and we had to, um, part of it was we had to volunteer, uh, at this organization where we sorted clothes and um, into different sizes and housewares.

You know, when people donate stuff and those donate? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So we were on the receiving end, my mom and I, and we would go through and size [00:16:00] them and then, um, battered women would come in with their children and we'd give them, oh, we'd give them clothes, Uhhuh. And so I did that from when I was eight to 14.

Um, and a lot, my friends don't, a lot of my friends growing up had no idea that this was like the circumstance under which we grew up. Oh yeah. We, that's how we earned our keep and had a place to live. 

[00:16:19] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

[00:16:20] Kate Assaraf: Were you in 

[00:16:21] Penny Fitzgerald: a city. 

[00:16:22] Kate Assaraf: I know I was in very wealthy suburbs of New Jersey. Really? I would, I would run to a different bus stop so no one knew where I lived back when you could do that.

Now, like with my kids, they're so official about where everyone is and gets on and off the bus. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I just went to a different bus stop and got on there and pretended I was part of this other community. Wow. And so, yeah, I, I, you have to like. People that grow up under really, um, difficult circumstances.

Yeah. Especially when we were young, I think, I think found ways to hide it and cloak it. Wow. What, what did you do? 

[00:16:58] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, for me, [00:17:00] I didn't know. I didn't know I was poor. Yeah. I, I think a lot, I grew up in rural Iowa. Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of my friends were kind of in similar situations, or not, not maybe as.

Poor Looking back, I can see, oh my gosh. Yeah. I remember mom and dad not having food and stuff, but we were on a farm, so we had had, we had resources, we had a garden. That's amazing. You know? Yeah. And I remember standing in line with mom to get government cheese and canned beef, which Wow. Those, they were amazing.

And I didn't know that that was a bad thing, you know? It was just, um. It's not a bad thing. It's, it's a wonderful thing that it's available for people who need it. 

[00:17:46] Kate Assaraf: Totally. Yeah. 

[00:17:47] Penny Fitzgerald: Um, 

[00:17:47] Kate Assaraf: but yeah, I just, you know, I played in the dirt. Yep. Same. I spent a lot of time in the woods and, you know, just Yeah. Just 

[00:17:56] Penny Fitzgerald: being 

[00:17:56] Kate Assaraf: there.

[00:17:57] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh yeah. I was in the barn with our, with, [00:18:00] you know, like cats and 

[00:18:02] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. It's, it's, it's wild. Like, you know, the difference for, for me was that everyone around me was kind of upper middle class, and I, yeah. But you know, my mom taught me, she's very resourceful and she taught me to sew, and so. From when I was eight years old.

Yeah. Able to sew and yeah. My mom and I sometimes, like when, if clothes came in and, you know, they had like a stain, they weren't able to be passed along to a family uhhuh, we would take it, cut it up, make scrunchies. Yeah. Like matching scrunchies to every outfit because I knew how to make them and like, and, um, I love it.

I can make sure that she, she, she was pretty amazing. Um, and I never really, as a child, you know, the, like, or as a parent, I look at like metrics of being poor and my mom kept me very wealthy with like, 

[00:18:50] Penny Fitzgerald: yes. 

[00:18:51] Kate Assaraf: Interests, with time and nature, with appreciation and gratitude and, mm-hmm. Skills. Yeah. And it's, it's so [00:19:00] funny because like.

You know, as in America, like everyone measures you on what you do and what your status 

[00:19:06] Penny Fitzgerald: is. Yeah. 

[00:19:06] Kate Assaraf: And as a CEO, which is like a very uncomfortable thing to call myself 'cause I just as A-C-E-O-I don't really care about like growth or any of these things. The things I care about is like, can I run this business with integrity?

Can I pay my employees well? Can I. Spend time with my children so that they don't feel like their mom is absent and working all the time. And those, those are things that make me, you know, life rich. Your 

[00:19:31] Penny Fitzgerald: definition of success. 

[00:19:33] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:34] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I call myself the director of fun. 'cause I don't like CEO either.

Right. 

[00:19:38] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, totally. Like, yeah, I call myself Chief Detangler, um, in our emails. I'm, and that I, that makes me happier because it's like, that's what I set out to do, 

[00:19:48] Penny Fitzgerald: you know? That's very cool. Yeah. That's a, yeah. Love it. So, okay, so your product is called Dip, right? Yep. DIP. Mm-hmm. Does that, how'd [00:20:00] you come to the name?

How'd you 

[00:20:00] Kate Assaraf: find that? So it needs water to, for it to work uhhuh. And so I like the idea when you and I, and I use it for, um, detangling when I come out of the pool or ocean. So you dip the bar and water and run it down wet hair and it'll instantly detangle the conditioner will. Wow. Um, but I love like the idea of dipping out of the mainstream.

So, um, I want people to avoid channels. Like, of course you can't avoid them a hundred percent, but, you know, limit their, their, um, shopping behavior on Amazon, on um mm-hmm. In Walmart, target all these fast to consume, you know, really speedy purchases that impulse buys that people make. 

[00:20:40] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:40] Kate Assaraf: And I want people to start noticing the stores in their town that are really moving the needle, um, about.

About plastic and what your options are, and they vet the products that are on their shelves. Um, so it's basically dipping outta the mainstream, dipping into water, you know, dipping into something new. I mean, there's so, I love 

[00:20:58] Penny Fitzgerald: it 

[00:20:59] Kate Assaraf: there. It's a, [00:21:00] it's a fun word. 

[00:21:01] Penny Fitzgerald: It is a fun word, yeah. Dipping into your favorite beverage.

Yeah. 

[00:21:05] Kate Assaraf: And I love, like, for me, like I just love the word dip because it reads the same upside down and right way up. Um, it's really cute. Right. Never thought of that. Yeah. And I always say I'm gonna go for a dip. Um, 'cause I try and swim as often as possible. 

[00:21:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Nice. Yeah. Uh, I love that. Uh, so our, we also have a home in Sarasota, Florida, and the beach is my happy place.

Yeah. So I love that. I love that analogy. 

[00:21:34] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. 

[00:21:34] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Okay. Where can people find your product? Where is it 

[00:21:38] Kate Assaraf: available? Sure. So, uh, it's on our website, dip already.com. D-I-P-A-L-R-E-A-D-Y.com Uhhuh. Um, but also if you go to dip already.com and you click on Store Locator, it'll pull up the store that's closest.

Nice. And so we sell in Zero Waste Stores or Refillers, um, where you can find all sorts of alternatives to things that it, um, that you [00:22:00] currently use in your. Homes that are plastic free. Mm-hmm. And um, then we also sell in hair salons around the country and also surf shops. So, um, those are the nice places.

I wanna sell dip and I don't really need to sell a million other places. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. 

[00:22:18] Penny Fitzgerald: That's very cool. I'm thinking through my audience and a lot of us live at the beach or love that. And love would love to live at the beach. Um, a lot of us are. Um, more aware and health conscious, and I think that's gonna really resonate with people.

[00:22:36] Kate Assaraf: I hope so. I mean, I, I, it, the ingredients are amazing and that's just, you know, the tip of the iceberg. But the, the real thing is that it works. Um, like, it makes your hair look really, really beautiful. And so, you know, the shampoo, it's made this problem, it really solves, is not having to choose between your workout and a good hair day.

So I run, I run all the [00:23:00] time, like I run, try and run and exercise and get some movement in every day. Um, and there's kind of this conventional wisdom that you hear all the time that you shouldn't wash your hair every day. But if you're someone who. Is active every day or training for something. There's plenty of people training for marathons or train, you know?

Mm-hmm. That just, or do yoga every day. Like you don't need to go hair down bun hat day to avoid showering. Like you can just use dip. 'cause it's gentle and it's gentle enough to take, to use every day. And the, the conditioner is one of those things that, it's my magnum opus, it's my favorite thing in the world.

And it, oh, we replaced 12. 12 tubes. A very expensive conditioner 

[00:23:39] Penny Fitzgerald: really. 

[00:23:40] Kate Assaraf: So the conditioner bar is $32, but it'll last most people around a year. Unless you have a big, big volume that it might do like six to eight months, but for most people it's six months to two years. So you can see the range. 

[00:23:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:54] Kate Assaraf: How it's used.

And it will instantly detangle your hair after coming out of the water. And that's the best. [00:24:00] 

[00:24:00] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, absolutely. Especially for long hair people. Oh 

[00:24:04] Kate Assaraf: my gosh. Or curly hair people. Parents with daughters with long hair 'cause Oh, like most of the emails I get about this are from dads that have that's their job in the household is to detangle their daughter's hair after a shower.

You know, like and dip has like provides ouchless detangling for them. 

[00:24:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh gosh. 

[00:24:24] Kate Assaraf: And um, and that I get a lot of messages about that very thing. Wow. 

[00:24:30] Penny Fitzgerald: So it, it's a leave in conditioner then, right? You can 

[00:24:32] Kate Assaraf: leave it in, yes. 

[00:24:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. Or you can 

[00:24:35] Kate Assaraf: rinse it out. Yep. 

[00:24:36] Penny Fitzgerald: You can 

[00:24:36] Kate Assaraf: do it both ways. Okay. I always leave it in.

I've been doing that my whole life with conditioner. I always leave. They always say like, I think it was in 17 magazine when I was like 12, but you know, you always leave a dime size amount of conditioner, put it back in your hair after shower. Oh yeah. And I do that with dip, so I just take it when the, after I rinse out the first round of conditioner, I take the bar.

Mm-hmm. Run it over my wet hair and then mm-hmm. I just leave. [00:25:00] Okay. Yeah. 

[00:25:02] Penny Fitzgerald: I love it. Your hair's beautiful. It's very shiny. 

[00:25:05] Kate Assaraf: Thank you. 

[00:25:06] Penny Fitzgerald: That is the dip. Looks healthy. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so thinking about your journey, you, um, this just, it wasn't just a trajectory and uphill just a let's just, we're gonna go and it's gonna be great and look at all these sales coming in. No. It never is. No, never. That happened. No. No. But how, okay, how, so tell us how your journey went. 

[00:25:36] Kate Assaraf: So I, first, I started a company, um, I didn't think I could do it on my own.

So I took a partner like, this has been my dream for a very long time to solve this problem. And I took a partner and the company was successful and the partnership was not. And for anyone who really, truly. Believes that they can't do their dream on their own. I would and, and a, it's a quality a lot of women have where they're like, I'll take a [00:26:00] partner.

It'll be more fun. We'll spread out the risk. At least I am one of hundreds of thousands of women who went to a partnership and it didn't work out the way I had hoped. And, um, Hey, closed, we, we dissolved that first business and the after effects of dissolving something that I was like, my dream was. I mean, I can't really describe it any other way that it felt like I had lost a piece of myself.

I went into like a crazy grief, depression, financially, like lost everything with that first one. It was, oh gosh, so bad. And then that wasn't dip 

[00:26:36] Penny Fitzgerald: though. That was a 

[00:26:36] Kate Assaraf: different product. That was one before this one. And so I started, you know, I, I. Decided I was gonna start again. I was like, this is my dream.

This is my calling. This is the unscratchable itch. I can't like let it, like, what am I gonna not finish what I started? So, um, right made dip, I made the formulas better, I made them, um, the mission stronger and I made [00:27:00] everything that I, I took that first experience as like a very fast, very expensive, and. I was like, okay, now I know what not to do.

Yeah. And then now, you know, for me, I learned to bank on myself and do it my own way. And I spent the first 18 months, um, really doing it on my own. And, um, I would go around the country and find zero waste stores and be like. I promise you, this is the best stuff you'll ever try. Like, I promise and scrappy, you buy one, they, they put dip on their shelves and it became like a big seller for them.

And, um, and yeah, and then I eventually like built and built and built and hired people and, and it's felt very surreal and very magical, you know? Yeah. I, I, every time someone converts to dip, they go from like a fancy, uh, salon [00:28:00] brand to dip. Like I get so excited 'cause I'm like, this person is now officially saving so much money on their hair.

Wow. And that's, wow, 

[00:28:10] Penny Fitzgerald: that's incredible. Because normally you think of something that, okay, it's gonna be better for me, it's gonna be better for the environment. It's just better all the way around. It's gonna be more expensive. Yeah. You know, that's kind of the thought process. 

[00:28:22] Kate Assaraf: Totally. And upfront. The sticker shock is, is big.

When someone looks at it from the viewpoint of like, I, oh, I already buy shampoo, conditioner bars. Why is dip like two or three times the price? Mm-hmm. And but what's so funny is when someone who buys luxury haircare sees the price. They're like, oh, okay, whatever. You know, it's a different customer, the person I'm trying to convert.

I'm not trying to convert someone who's happy with bar haircare. I'm trying to convert someone who's like, I'll never touch bar haircare. And the ingredients Yeah. Are, are reflective of the price. Right. So, um, someone who I used to use Oribe, [00:29:00] uh, myself, so, 

[00:29:01] Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm. 

[00:29:02] Kate Assaraf: Which is very expensive. It can sometimes be 50 to $70 per bottle or tube.

Mm-hmm. And Dip replaces a full year's worth of that for me. Wow. So a $52 bar replaces over $500 worth of hair care, dang conditioner. And that was the dream for me. Like it's, it's not enough to get someone to. Use less plastic. You also have to give them something else for them to be excited about. Yeah.

Um, and that's, that's what I set out to do. And so far. It's been really great. Yeah. You know, I don't wanna sound too confident 'cause like that's the Universe will shut me down 

[00:29:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's Karma not. Yeah. It be like, oh yeah, that great. No, I'm very grateful for where we are in this day. So Grateful Universe, please don't ruin it.

Um, 

[00:29:50] Kate Assaraf: yes. Manifest some more of that. Yeah. I always think that the universe works that way. I like. To believe that it rewards [00:30:00] good. Yeah. And generosity and all those things. Yes, absolutely. I think it also takes, it takes from arrogance, right? So I'm gonna like, yes, 

[00:30:07] Penny Fitzgerald: I don't want, and it, you get lessons from those, those hardship times, those things that don't necessarily work.

Right. Sometimes a blessing in disguise, but in the moment, 

[00:30:17] Kate Assaraf: oh man, yeah. That, yeah, that first business was, was the bit harshest lesson I've ever learned, and, uh, and I'm mm-hmm. Now looking back, it's almost crazy to think that I was so upset because I didn't know that the best things were yet to come. Um, but you could never know that, right?

Know that until you're through 

[00:30:38] Penny Fitzgerald: it. You gotta trust it. You gotta trust that it's coming because you're following your heart, you're following, you're calling. 

[00:30:44] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. That you're 

[00:30:44] Penny Fitzgerald: doing. 

[00:30:45] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, and I just love hair, so I could talk about hair all day. And even though, you know, that was not my education, I'm not a hairstylist.

I just love it. Like, and it, and it brings me a lot of joy to have people tell me about their hair, [00:31:00] which people tell me about it all the time. Uhhuh. Yeah. This is like, took full circle, straight industry for me because I love it. Yeah, 

[00:31:08] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. Absolutely. Find what you love and then mm-hmm. Make it better. Yeah.

Neat. Um, okay. So I'm thinking about, okay, I'm thinking about me. Okay. Um, as a person who gets shampoo and, and conditioner at Costco, please don't judge me. 

[00:31:29] Kate Assaraf: No, it's okay. It's okay. I, there's no judgment at all. Like, especially if you're buying like a bulk version, that's a great start. 

[00:31:36] Penny Fitzgerald: A big jug of it. Yeah.

You know, because I'm there and I'm, you know, I'm getting a chicken and I'm, you know, I get it. But, okay. So it sounds like it would be a good thing to, well, of course it's a good thing to switch to better products and less plastic, and that's the move I've been trying to make in other ways. Mm-hmm. But I [00:32:00] have been a, I've been one of those bar skeptics.

[00:32:03] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Rightly so. There's a lot of really bad ones. Yeah. I hate to say that, but it, that it's the whole reason DIP was created in the first place. Yeah. I was so afraid of bad bars that I was like, I, I'm just gonna solve this problem. Even though solving the problem is like a very huge endeavor. Like it's not Well, yeah, not easy, and it's not cheap to start and it's, exactly, yeah.

When you hear 

[00:32:27] Penny Fitzgerald: the, the stories of, okay, no, I tried a bar and it, you know, this is, this is my experience, then it's, it makes it harder for you. Yeah. I'm sure. 

[00:32:37] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, I, and I'm one of those people, if I didn't vet it myself and someone told me, mm-hmm. Hey, tried this, tried dip, I'd be like, no, I've tried 40 brands.

I'm not doing it again. And eventually. Eventually, hopefully someone like me can be converted, but I, but I'm also that person. I'm like, I'm, I'm spending so much money trying to [00:33:00] save the earth that like, it's not worth it. You know, I'll just buy the big jug and, and you know, day is done. Um, yeah. So, so I think of my company through those eyes because I am that person.

Okay. I'm so tired. I'm so tired of bad, sustainable products. 

[00:33:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. I'm 

[00:33:17] Kate Assaraf: so. Angry with them 

[00:33:19] Penny Fitzgerald: and the preachiness of a lot of them. 

[00:33:21] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. They ruin it for me. Like I wanna find someone who like, who's like excited about making the change. And already so many times they're like, no, 

[00:33:31] Penny Fitzgerald: I'm not. 

[00:33:31] Kate Assaraf: But what's amazing is that our customers are the biggest advocates and our biggest, like they're mm-hmm.

They're the ones that you get like one skeptic to convert. They tell everyone. Mm-hmm. Because that feeling of. Trying to do the right thing only to feel like hosed by marketing. Is mm-hmm. In sustainability is a very universal experience. I can stop a hundred people on the street and be like, Hey, did you try and buy something [00:34:00] plastic free?

And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, did it cost more? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, did it suck? And they're like, yes. And so, so I know those people. They're everywhere. And I am one of them. So I needed it to be really good. Yeah. I'm so, so sick of bad products. I feel like they're all cash grabs. I feel like, you know, someone was like, oh look, plastic free is trending.

Like, let's just, like, there's someone that makes a plastic free tissue. And I was like, Ew. Like it's what rinse like, you know? And I'm like, this is come, come on. Like there's no way you thought of the end user. You just need something plastic free. But you didn't think like, Ew, what's this person gonna do with this thing?

And also, there's already like a handkerchief exists. You know, us using a tissue, that's what my grandparents used. Yeah. Yeah. Like let them, you're not solving a problem, you're making it worse. You're ruining for the rest of us. And like, if someone wants to use a tissue, like don't shame them and make it seem like they're the problem.

You know what I mean? Yeah. [00:35:00] It's, it's very rational for people to use convenient things. Um, and shampoo bottles are one of those things. And conditioner bottles are, are, are convenient, 

[00:35:08] Penny Fitzgerald: but, but Wow. What a lot of plastic. 

[00:35:12] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. And those big jugs, even though you're buying them less often, they take way longer to decompose, right?

Or I'm sure. So what, um, or to biodegrade, so what. I would love for someone to do that's listening. It's like I'm really happy with my Costco stuff. Realize that the one, the, I would just try the Dip conditioner bar first because even if you don't want it in your shower, which you know, okay, if you don't want your shower, bring it to the pool, bring it to the beach.

It will instantly detangle your hair after swimming and you can air dry and move on with your day. Um, and so I, you know, I want people to really figure out how they can fit it into their lifestyle. And eventually we're gonna get in your shower. It'll get there. A lot of people don't believe it's gonna get there, but it gets there.[00:36:00] 

[00:36:01] Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm. I believe it. Yeah. I'm excited to try it. 'cause I was just telling my husband that, you know, I think it's, I think we're getting low on shampoo and so I was gonna put it on the list, but I don't have to now. 

[00:36:12] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, you're next. I next and, and let him know that 30% of our customers are men. So Really? Yeah.

Okay. And which is unusual for luxury haircare? Um, yeah. But what, well, women are making the purchases. Women are making the purchases. But what is amazing is that men say that they like it because the brand is not girly, and our market is not girly. So they feel like they're invited into the party. Like, yeah, we're having a plastic free party and like men are invited.

Um, there're, you know, there's a lot of men out there that surf and need to detangle their hair. Like a lot of men that surf tend to surf at dawn, you know, need to run it down their hair and then they switch from their wetsuit into like their work clothes and go to work. They don't even stop home to shower and Dip kind of helps 'em with that.

[00:36:59] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, [00:37:00] that's, yeah. Okay, so you don't know my hubby, but he's um, he's got maybe two hairs. Oh, perfect. He'll be an instant convert. 

[00:37:11] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Great. Well, we'll take care of those two hairs. Real nice. 

[00:37:15] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay, good, good, good. Well, his mustache, he could use a little help there. Oh, with, you know the conditioner part? He there.

Perfect. Yeah. Sorry honey.

Oh my gosh. So, so what, what have I not asked you that you would love to share with people? What's, what's on your heart? 

[00:37:34] Kate Assaraf: Sure. I, I would really, really like to tell people that, um, although you can order Dip online through our.

Website. Um, I would really love for you to visit the store locator and find the, the retailer closest to you that you can purchase from in. Person, and there's a few reasons for that. One, you can ask them any questions in case you're scared and you don't have to take it from me. Um, I make sure that everyone that sells [00:38:00] dip in their store tries it first and really loves it.

'cause I think it's a hard sell unless you really love it yourself. Um, and then the, the next thing is like, I want you to think about how you shop and when you support someone in your town. You are actually making your money work for you and where you live. So if you find the, the, um, spot in town that has Dip.

They're paying taxes that support your schools, that support your libraries, that support everything that is dear to you and helped you make that choice of where you live. And what people don't realize is so fast, they shop on Amazon, they shop, you know, in mass retailers, and that money leaves your town and goes off to other places and maybe contributes to a rocket ship.

Flight That seems unnecessary, you know? So, um, so really possibly, yeah. Possibly just maybe. So my, my biggest thing is to check the stores near you. Um, we have a really, we have a few retailers in Iowa, so [00:39:00] check, check them out and, um, and yeah, I mean, once you get into a refill store, if you've never experienced a refill store, once you get in there just.

Even if they don't stock Dip, just take a look around, see what swaps you can make and see, you know, like I only buy paper towels for bacon. Like, that's the only reason I buy them. But every other use for paper towel has been replaced by reusable paper towels, which is fancy way to say rags that are nice and cute.

Um, like, so, but they're, they're great. The ones that you find in refill stores, like I've been using the same ones for. I don't know, five years and I've had to buy maybe one pack of paper towels. 'cause I'm not eating bacon that often, but like literally all it is there for. And, um, the, I, when I think about how much paper towels a family consumes.

All the time. It's a lot. Not cheap. They're so expensive. Mm-hmm. Like that, just [00:40:00] the cost savings of just making that one switch. The cost savings of switching to stasher bags or reusable Ziploc bags instead of using plastic ones every day. Mm-hmm. Um, there are so many swaps that feel a little expensive.

But long term, you know, after a few months they've, you've already made your money back. Mm-hmm. I use this to like, justify other purchases too. I don't know, there's like, one time I bought this very expensive leather jacket and I've been wearing it, no joke for 12 years. Oh yeah. I've gotten my money's worth on this jacket.

Yep. And, um, I think you need to view sustainability like that sometimes. Like, okay. Mm-hmm. Like, the stasher bag, for example, sometimes I can't remember how much they are off the top, but they're more expensive than a pack of Ziplocs. But my stasher bags with, I have two kids that take lunch to school every day.

These stasher bags have ultimately made tons of money back. They've saved me tons of money in my consumption. And, you know, I [00:41:00] feel good about it too. Like that's the other pat on the back I'll give myself, but mm-hmm. I, I want people to just start thinking. Like these are, go into that refill store, zero waste store.

These are the things that mm-hmm. Really move the needle in my life. Whatever your lifestyle is. 

[00:41:15] Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm. 

[00:41:16] Kate Assaraf: Cool. 

[00:41:17] Penny Fitzgerald: The, the stasher bags, are they a silicone alternative? They're silicone, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you can just, can you stick those in the dishwasher? 

[00:41:24] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Yeah. I stick mine in the dishwasher and, you know, it's, uh, it, it's just nice to have something that is durable enough, like I, yeah.

But they're great for marinades too, when I marinade. Mm. Um, but so is like a stainless steel bowl. Um, so, but 

[00:41:42] Penny Fitzgerald: well, yeah, that's true. But the, the, I'm thinking of those bags being lightweight. Mm-hmm. Like for storage solutions where Absolutely. A lot of my friends and myself too, I, we've gone to glass. Yeah.

And ceramic and that kind of thing. And that's great. But it's very 

[00:41:57] Kate Assaraf: heavy. Heavy. It's clunky and it takes a [00:42:00] lot of space. It does. Um, but I'm, I'm a big fan of both of those things. It's just mm-hmm. I live in like a very small house and like my kitchen doesn't have that much storage, so like, yeah. A lot of those solutions are for beautiful, big pantries 

[00:42:13] Penny Fitzgerald: that I just do not have.

Yeah. Well, and you can't toss those into a cute little bag, you know? Oh, no. Grab and go kind of situation around. Exactly. Yeah, 

[00:42:21] Kate Assaraf: for sure. But I mean, that's the, the goal is to really. Not badger everyone into making a million changes Yeah. At once. It's just every once in a while, you know, like, you finish this, make a swap different.

Yeah. Make the swap. Yeah. Um, that soft serve into sustainability, I think is better for everyone. Instead of the finger waggly. Like, throw everything you own out now and replace it with other stuff. It just makes no sense, you know? 

[00:42:45] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:46] Kate Assaraf: Exactly. 

[00:42:48] Penny Fitzgerald: So, so your, um, stores that you work with, your retailers, how do you find them?

[00:42:55] Kate Assaraf: Uh, you know, it's, it's a mutual, um, you know, hunt and they find you, [00:43:00] you find them. We find each other. Yeah. We find each other. The, the network, the sustainability retailer network is pretty tight. And so we're not in all of the su, the su sustainable stores out there. Not all them. Um, but we're in many of them.

And, um, you know, there's, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a community and we want mm-hmm. We all want the same thing. We want people shopping in store locally and we want to expose people to those other solutions. So, you know, that net network of stores is really, really important. It's its own web. Mm-hmm. I just brought 20 a, a few dozen, um, of my re small retailers out to the Catskills, and we had like a fun adult summer camp out there.

Oh, how fun. And people have known each other digitally. 'cause independent store owners, they, they flew in from all over the country and we came and we had like a really fun, sustainable, like, one of the events was like a rock skipping contest. It was silly. [00:44:00] It was really fun. Yeah, I'm sure. Um, but a lot of these people had only known each other digitally and I created a place where we can get together and really get to know each other because I think, I think owning, um, a retail store is difficult in this day and age and it's lonely.

Mm-hmm. It's both of those things and it's not. Mm-hmm. It's weirdly not respected, do you know what I mean? Mm. A a lot of these store owners have had this experience where they can overhear someone being like, oh, I wonder what the husband does that supports this store. Do you know what I mean? Oh my God.

They hear that a lot. Or like, you know, good luck with this store as if like, it's not gonna survive. And wow, that, that experience, that commonality that a lot of them have experienced really gross and really like. You know, these, these entrepreneurs have a lot of them, they've left all different kinds of careers mm-hmm.

To make sustainability, you know, available to their towns and the people in their towns for their calling. Yeah. [00:45:00] And, and I think the way a lot of people treat small store owners is like, pretty gross. So if you're listening to this and you've ever walked into a store and being like, yeah, I wonder who pays for all this?

It's, it's the store owner, you know? Yeah. They, they invest in it. And you're welcome. Yeah. And you're welcome. They invest in, you know, they actually pay taxes, their fair share of taxes and they pay fair wages to their teams. And, um, you know, Amazon does not pay their fair share of taxes and they should. So, um, right, 

[00:45:29] Penny Fitzgerald: right.

Rocket ship boy. 

[00:45:32] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. 

[00:45:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. It's 

[00:45:36] Kate Assaraf: crazy. 

[00:45:37] Penny Fitzgerald: Um, yeah. 

[00:45:38] Kate Assaraf: But again, like if you're in a rural area, Amazon is a godsend, right? Because it, right, because that's what's available to you. So I'm not shaming people for Amazon use. I'm saying, yeah, it's an opportunity to find, find something where you live, like shop. Try that first before you have the card.

[00:45:57] Penny Fitzgerald: Do. Do you work with other small real retailers who [00:46:00] might be like boutique type stores that aren't necessarily known for sustainability? Yes. Yet? 

[00:46:05] Kate Assaraf: Yes, absolutely. And we use a lot of our marketing to get people into stores instead of shopping on our site. So even when, okay, you go to our website and you abandon your cart, it's like, good.

Now you can go and uh, go find 

[00:46:18] Penny Fitzgerald: it. 

[00:46:18] Kate Assaraf: And save on shipping. Oh, that's cool. And, and that's really fun. 

[00:46:22] Penny Fitzgerald: I'm just thinking there's a, there's a wonderful boutique, um, in, in our county seat. Mm-hmm. The town that I live in is a thousand people, and our county has, I think, less than 18,000 total. Total. So you know the county seat is where people go to shop or they go into the bigger town of Cedar Rapids.

Yeah, that, that little boutique, it's been there for over 20 years. The gal who owns it is amazing. She's very community focused. She does a lot of events for kids and people in the town. It's amazing. And this would. I'm, [00:47:00] I'd be shocked if she doesn't have it actually. 

[00:47:01] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Let her know. Um, I, one of our top Iowa retailers is in Bettendorf.

Yes. Yeah. I lived there for a while. No way. Yeah. Um, they have right out of college. Yeah. And so they, um, have a refill store and they do really, really well with Dip and I really, really love the owner of that. Yeah. 

[00:47:20] Penny Fitzgerald: So that's cool. Uh, well, I'm gonna put links to these. Places and, and your website. Um, in my show notes and in my email, my newsletter.

For, for those of you listening, if you're not on my newsletter, um, you can go to Penny for your shots.com/insider and get the scoop on all the things. So that's great. I'm gonna include those links. 

[00:47:41] Kate Assaraf: Amazing. 

[00:47:42] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Fantastic. Okay, so we're, gosh, we've been chatting a bit, so I, um, always ask my guests at the end of the episode.

Something fun. And we've been chatting about all things fun already, but what's your favorite [00:48:00] beverage or glass of wine? What do you like to enjoy? 

[00:48:02] Kate Assaraf: Oh, um, well I am from New Jersey, so I'm equal opportunity when it comes to alcohol. Excellent, excellent. I like everything, but I am, I knew I'd love you. Must, must have been a pirate in another life because I love rum 

[00:48:16] Penny Fitzgerald: more than anything.

Rum nice. Love rum. Do you have a favorite mixer or kind of what do you, what do you normally drink with it? 

[00:48:24] Kate Assaraf: Well, it depends on, oh, just on the rocks. It depends on my weight at the time, but when, when I'm trying to lose weight, I'm always, uh, Bicardi Limon and Diet Coke, which is a very college drink kind of in my forties.

Oh yeah. I really love it. And um, when I'm not trying to lose weight, it is, I love a daiquiri 

[00:48:43] Penny Fitzgerald: strawberry daiquiri. Lovely. Yes. Um, reminds me of all day. I would love it. When you come visit me in Florida, we're in Sarasota and there's a, there's a rum distillery there called Siesta [00:49:00] Key Rum. I'll see you tomorrow.

Yeah, it's fantastic. They're award-winning and they have a coconut rum that toasted coconut rum that is just. To die for. 

[00:49:12] Kate Assaraf: Sounds amazing. 

[00:49:13] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, just on the rocks. Just fine. I love it. I'll be there. Okay. Yeah, we're fast friends. I'm sure. So, so what's a, what's a memory that you have with girlfriends sharing a glass of rum or, or a glass of, or a daiquiri or whatever?

[00:49:32] Kate Assaraf: I mean. The, a lot of them don't, are not safe for Are, are episode ready? Yeah. Well, well I think at one one point, my friends and I, we were really rum drunk and, uh, we found seashells and we put them on our one eye and we were talking like pirates and, uh, I really love that memory because it was so silly.

Yeah. We were in shallows in, in the mangroves of Puerto [00:50:00] Rico and we thought no one could see us. We're like being really. Silly. And um, it turns out like there was like a cruise ship that dumped, dumped a whole bunch of people off and we were just there, like enjoying ourselves. And then when we noticed there was, there was like an audience that was really funny.

Um, so yeah, not one of my proudest moments, but also one of my most fun. So I think that that sounds, yeah, I 

[00:50:23] Penny Fitzgerald: love that they just wanted to be a part of the group. 

[00:50:28] Kate Assaraf: Yeah. Yeah. But you know, like your back is turned to what's happening behind you. Oh yeah. Yep. Time of your life and then you turn around and a nightmare.

There's all these people, oh, 

[00:50:37] Penny Fitzgerald: hey girl. 

[00:50:38] Kate Assaraf: Hey.

[00:50:42] Penny Fitzgerald: Gosh, I love it. Well, and you know, they knew you were having fun and they were just jealous. Yeah, yeah. And I'm in my forties now. That was more than 10 years ago, so, but yeah. 

[00:50:51] Kate Assaraf: I don't know where, I don't know where the time goes, but it feels like yesterday.

No 

[00:50:55] Penny Fitzgerald: judgment. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And how, how lucky are we to have fun [00:51:00] friends and just totally. You know, a girlfriend gave me a Christmas tree ornament that says I love the nights. I can't remember with the friends. I can't forget. 

[00:51:09] Kate Assaraf: Yeah, that is perfect. Those would go crazy in New Jersey. 

[00:51:13] Penny Fitzgerald: Get them there.

Yeah. It's just appropriate, you know. I remember a lot of it.

[00:51:23] Kate Assaraf: Oh my gosh. Kate, this has been so fun. Thank you for having me. This was really, really a fun interview. 

[00:51:28] Penny Fitzgerald: Thank you. Yeah, I enjoyed it so much. It was great to get to know you and gosh, I feel like of course we're friends and yeah, we'll be on a beach someday sipping rum together. 

[00:51:38] Kate Assaraf: Absolutely. I hope so.

[00:51:40] Penny Fitzgerald: Thank you so much 

[00:51:41] Kate Assaraf: and um, thank you everyone for listening this far in. We appreciate 

[00:51:45] Penny Fitzgerald: it. 

[00:51:45] Kate Assaraf: Yes, for sure, for sure. Thanks 

[00:51:47] Penny Fitzgerald: again, Kate. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day.