From Bartender to Brand Builder: April Wachtel’s Cheeky Pivot

What happens when a cocktail educator, brand strategist, and former Bacardi ambassador decides to launch her own product line—in the middle of a global crisis? You get Cheeky Cocktails…and one seriously inspiring journey.

April Wachtel didn’t just stumble into entrepreneurship. She tested, pivoted, and reimagined her way into it—learning from failure, navigating trolls, and bottling mixers by hand to meet demand. In this candid conversation, April gets real about what it takes to build a brand from scratch, and why separating your ego from your business is one of the most liberating things you can do.

In this episode, April shares:

• Why her first business wasn’t “it”—and how she knew when to walk away
• How launching during COVID actually worked in her favor
• What it really looks like to bootstrap and scale (she’s still her only full-time employee!)
• The mindset shift that changed everything: market feedback > perfection
• How one 30-second lime-cutting video exploded to 150K views—and why she’s doubling down on digital

Whether you’re pivoting, planning, or just craving a better way to build, this convo will light a fire under you (and maybe your next happy hour).

Key Topics:

• Entrepreneurship during a pandemic
• Pivots, product testing, and growth mindset
• Overcoming imposter syndrome and perfectionism
• Visibility fears, trolls, and social media strategy
• Building brand credibility with limited resources

For 15% off your order from Cheeky Cocktails, use this link: cheekycocktails.co/PENNY15
The discount will apply and show in your cart. Cheers!

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Transcript

From Bartender to Brand Builder: April Wachtel’s Cheeky Pivot

This week's guest is April Wachtel, founder of Cheeky Cocktails, and this convo is part Cocktail nerd out part entrepreneurial fire starter. We talk about perfectionism, imposter syndrome. Burnout pivots, trolls, and yes cocktails. If you were at wine camp this year, you know how much everyone loved the bee sting cocktail we made by the pool.

That one was actually from a past [00:01:00] Sipper Club recipe. And spoiler alert, I'll be remixing it soon using one of April's cheeky mixers, because why not make life and happy hour a little easier. April is sharing her story from bartending and brand building to launching her own mixer line in the middle of a pandemic, and she's offering you a discount on her cheeky cocktails.

I'll include the link in the show notes, but if you miss it, just DM me and I'll send it right your way. Let's get into it. Here is April Wachtel.

[00:01:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Hello. Good morning, April. Good morning. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm well. I'm well. Are you at a standing desk? Uh, well, 

 truth be told, I am standing at an ironing board. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. It's, it's making do. Yeah. Thank you 

[00:01:52] April Wachtel: so much for, um, for having this chat. I am so 

[00:01:55] Penny Fitzgerald: excited to talk with you. I think we have a lot in common.

[00:01:57] April Wachtel: I do too, actually. Uh, yeah. [00:02:00] I've been, uh, I've been listening to some of your podcasts and, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of, uh, interesting stuff. 

[00:02:06] Penny Fitzgerald: Thank you for listening. Yeah, we're gonna have a fun chat for sure. Yeah. Well, April to begin with, tell my audience what you do and, um, like your name, who you are, what.

Anything you want us to know upfront about your company and all of that, and then we'll get into the juicy details. 

[00:02:22] April Wachtel: Yeah, for sure. So, um, so I'm April Wachtel. I'm the founder and CEO of Cheeky Cocktails. Um, I'm a former brand ambassador for Bacardi, consultant for Diageo and cocktail instructor with over, uh, 12,000 former students, but I started off in bars and restaurants.

I spent many years trying to kind of figure out what I wanted to do and. Working in bars and restaurants, you know, learning about what creative pursuits I wanted to, um, to engage in. Um, so it's been a, a, an interesting long journey. And then, um, I launched my company Cheeky Cocktails in 2020, uh, into the first wave of COVID.

And, you know, we do, uh, professional grade cocktail [00:03:00] mixers, so they're shelf stable versions of what the pros use behind bars. Um, and it was very interesting timing, honestly. Couldn't have been better in terms of like Yeah, the in. And all that. So, um, so that's what we do. We do, we do cocktail mixers, um, you know, to help people connect with friends and family better.

[00:03:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Fantastic. Well, yeah, and that's. Well, first of all, COVID, nobody stopped drinking. They did not. They drank more. They drank a lot more. Well, yeah, I'm speaking from personal experience there, but Oh yeah, me too. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that's very great timing and what a fantastic idea too, to have these mixes available.

Yep. So, and the mixes you say are, um, a higher quality, right? They're like less stuff junk in 

[00:03:49] April Wachtel: them, right? It's, it's a, it's a few things. So like when you, when you order a margarita from, you know, a bar, a craft cocktail bar, they don't make it with tequila and margarita mix. They make it [00:04:00] with tequila and lime juice and.

Typically like a triple sucker orange L cure. If it's a Tommy's margarita instead of the orange lur, they'll use agave syrup. And so our products are both higher quality. Um, they are made to the exact specs like specifications that, um, the products are made in a craft cocktail bar. Um, but then additionally they're also, we don't do the fully mixed mixers.

We keep the juices and syrups separate. So anybody who uses them can, they basically have access to the same tools as a professional would. 

[00:04:30] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Um, okay, so tell us, how did you move from. Bars. How, what, what gave you the idea to, to bring this product to fruit fruition?

[00:04:43] April Wachtel: Yeah. Well, so I, you know, I, I, um, I, I was always like a, a creative entrepreneurial kid. Like, I had ideas for businesses and products and like stupid marketing ideas for videos and things like when I was like a child, like a child with a giant camcorder, 

[00:04:58] Penny Fitzgerald: uhhuh. Um, 

[00:04:59] April Wachtel: so I know I was [00:05:00] just looking for an idea for years and years and years and, um.

I think before I knew the concept of Ikigai, of like finding something that you love and adds value to the world and you can make money and utilizes your skillset. Um, before I even knew that that was a concept, I knew that I needed to find something that like I was uniquely well qualified to do and I loved doing so.

Over the years, I actually tried to leave bars and restaurants for, for many years because of the lifestyle. It's just really hard on your body. I had late nights. Yeah, there's just a lot of things that are really challenging for, um, probably everybody's body, but particularly mine given I was like an athlete as well and I had all these knee injuries, so I was like, I gotta find like a thing to do after this that will allow me to utilize my skills and that I love doing.

And again, that there's an opportunity for, so it was kind of with that mindset that, you know, I'm going through all of these different roles, as I mentioned as a cocktail instructor. Um, you know, working in corporate spirits as a bartender, [00:06:00] um, and really, truly as a consumer as well. It's like, what do I need in my life when I'm entertaining?

Um, and as a result of all of those experiences, I was like, huh, there's clearly something here because. We know consumers who have great cocktails and bars, they no longer want to go home and have like the mixers filled with high fructose corn syrup and like red dye number three and yellow dye number 24, whatever.

Um, so I knew that there was something there, but it took years to crystallize what that might be. And before launching Cheeky in 2020, I actually ran another mixer company, which was like. Versions one through six of the idea. And so I ran that for four and a half, almost five years. And then was just like, this is not it.

Like the, what we, the product that we have is not meeting the need for the people that I was hoping it would. And so I pulled the whole thing apart and then put it back together as cheeky. So it was like a. 20 year journey of being like, Hmm, 

[00:06:58] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah, 

[00:06:59] April Wachtel: what [00:07:00] hell, 

[00:07:00] Penny Fitzgerald: well, yeah, and this is a key point. I feel like you were not sitting back and thinking about it for all that time.

You were testing and trying things and finding what didn't work in order to get to what did. Totally. 

[00:07:14] April Wachtel: Totally. And I think I, I actually think it's a shame for, um, this narrative to be out in the ether saying, you know, like, there's a one aha moment. Like, or like, like that's how you get your entrepreneur or your creative idea.

Yeah. Because I think most of the time, and again, it's not saying that those don't exist, but I think most of the time, especially if you're like immersed in the industry. It is like the evolution of something that crystallizes over a long period of time, and typically you don't have it right right away.

Typically, you start with like a bad version of the thing or a mediocre version of the thing, and then it evolves and you tweak it based on market feedback. So yeah, I. I mean, it's definitely been a long journey for me and I, and I would imagine it's going to take a lot longer to get kind of where I wanna go [00:08:00] too, so, 

[00:08:00] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah, absolutely.

And for anybody, I mean, any entrepreneur out there, you build the train while it's going down the track. I, I've heard that so many times. Totally. It's so true. You have to get that feedback. It's like you're not gonna be perfect right outta the gate. So get over that perfectionism, get over those limiting beliefs that that hold you still.

Yeah. And keep you small. Totally. And yeah. 

[00:08:21] April Wachtel: And I, I think, um, one of the biggest unlocks, is recognizing and being able to separate my ego from the business success. Because I think what. Hangs so many people up.

 whether it's an artistic project, whether it's a, you know, an entrepreneurial venture is like, you are like the reception of my idea. The first version of my idea is this is people's judgment on my value. And if it, if I don't kill it immediately, that means I'm worthless or like I feel shame or whatever that might be.

And, um. Being able to separate your ego and say, this is, this is [00:09:00] like a live experiment. It's like live in the market. Mm-hmm. And like I can place my value in like my continued passion for the project, my ability to pivot, you know, and, and like truly like hear critical feedback and then process it into like to, so it benefits the product and the consumer.

That I think is like huge. And that is I think one of the. Unlocks to growth or the things that will continue to unlock your growth is recognizing this is not about you and your, and your value. It's about the whole package and the idea, um, and your ability to change for the market. 

[00:09:35] Penny Fitzgerald: So true. So true. It's, we keep ourselves, we, we don't talk about what we're, what we're working on because if nobody knows about it, they can't judge you about it.

Totally, 

[00:09:45] April Wachtel: totally, totally. Yeah. And, and that's the, that's, that's another thing. And again, I know, um. I know your conversations, they can be very businessy, they can be very, um mm-hmm. Thoughtful and no introspective. Um, but I think, [00:10:00] um, yeah, I mean this is, I feel like the journey of entrepreneurship is the journey of becoming, I.

Sure. And again, I think that translates to any, any pursuit where you're bringing an idea into the world and then you have to, she, you're responsible for its wellbeing, you know, over the course of its existence. 

[00:10:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like your business doesn't grow. I. Any faster than you as a person can grow.

Like Yes. You know, as much expansion as you're willing to accept. Totally. Then your business can grow too. Well it's almost like having a kid, right? You know, I haven't had one by birth. Yeah, yeah. But it feels very much like, okay, you're raising this thing is your dream, your Yeah. And, but it. It has its own thing.

[00:10:46] April Wachtel: Totally. Totally. No, and, and I've said that 'cause um, I also do not have children. Um, and I love children. I just don't have any Yeah, yeah. Um, but, um, but no, I, I've thought about that as well as it's like many of the responsibilities that you have, [00:11:00] again, for it's wellbeing. Um. And to correct it when it's doing the wrong thing, you know?

Yeah. There's so many parallels, um, and wording in a very similar way where you're just like, okay, you know, this took us like years to get from, you know, whatever, crawling to walking, but like, we're here for it and like, celebrate. 

[00:11:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. And then go have a drink when the day isn't so great. 

[00:11:24] April Wachtel: Yeah. Yeah.

Totally. Totally. Or during the day, you never know. 

[00:11:28] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, this may or may not be coffee. I don't know.

Oh my gosh. So fun. Oh, okay. So getting back to your, your product idea. Um, so when COVID hit, is that when you we're like, okay, I am going, I'm changing this, or I'm gonna go with this? Or how did that, how did you pivot there? 

[00:11:50] April Wachtel: No, so it was, um, so this also was again, a about. Like learning on, like learning [00:12:00] myself on the journey as well.

So like mm-hmm. I, I think one of my greatest strengths and also correspondingly probably largest weaknesses, I'm very tenacious and so I. I don't know if any, if any, ex I, I don't think any experienced entrepreneur would have run the first version of my business for four and a half years knowing all the problems it had.

Like I think had I known better, I would've been like, we just did this for six months and this is not working. Like we need to pivot. So I knew that there were, like, I had a laundry list of things about the first visit 

[00:12:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Uhhuh. 

[00:12:32] April Wachtel: A change. Just even if you looked at like the bottle breakage, that was directly related to the, the, the sort of unique product offering we had.

Our breakage was like off the charts and what we had always said from day one is like. When we have enough money, when we raise enough money, oh geez, Uhhuh, we're profitable enough, we'll fix this thing. But like, we're just gonna gut it out until then. So it was really, again, that entire time that we were running that business.

My business partner at the time, gates and I, [00:13:00] we were just, you know, learning on the job and we were like, we were both bartenders very recently. I mean, he was still bartending and I had already moved to corporate spirits, but we, um. We knew for years that there were major problems. And so what happened is there was like one catastrophic production run where the breakage was like 30%.

It was just like, 

[00:13:21] Penny Fitzgerald: oh my God, 

[00:13:22] April Wachtel: it was really terrible, and um mm-hmm. It was in that moment that I was like, okay, this is not about tenacity and like persevering through hard things. This is about, this thing is not working. And so I started that unwinding process of the former business, which was called Swig and Swallow.

I started that probably. Uh, really like 2019, like maybe be. Whatever, spring of 2019. Mm-hmm. Um, gates and I decided to part ways. He's still a great friend of mine. Um, he went on to do, like, he's now a global mixologist for, um, the Marriott. So he does all of the Oh 

[00:13:58] Penny Fitzgerald: wow. 

[00:13:58] April Wachtel: Properties. So he is, he's, [00:14:00] he's, he kills it.

He's amazing. Yeah. Um, but so we split up and I, I had always had the, um, the knowledge as well that Swig and Swallow was a terrible name and Cheeky, or the, I needed to find a better name. So, um, so I had at that point, like in mid 2019, I had the name Cheeky, I had the trademark on the name, cheeky. We still had the facility that we were using for the previous business.

Um, and I just started looking for, like, design agencies. Long story short is we had already been in that transition and my plan was like to soft launch in April of 2020. Like, oh gosh, the right way. And yes. And then COVID hits, and I think the benefit of like many crises is it forces you to like get over yourself and just do things.

[00:14:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:49] April Wachtel: That just get like your choice, 

[00:14:50] Penny Fitzgerald: you had to. Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:52] April Wachtel: So yeah, so the agency not ready with the design, so I just did. I just designed bottles, basically. I was like, [00:15:00] this, I think is, let's go. Yeah. Like we need something to go with. Um, design the labels. I personally was like hand sanitizing, cutting and juicing every single piece of citrus and then oh, my bottling.

Oh yeah. Then I built a website, I did a photo. So I probably did everything from like the design. To building the website, to having products for sale. It was probably like four days. It was like very fast. And that's, again, that's the beauty of a crisis. Um, and so yeah, so it was already in the works. Um, and then dang, as soon as we launched, we just started getting crushed with orders.

Um, just 

[00:15:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Uh, yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So how did you get funding then for all the things that you had to fix from the, the preview, like the breakage and such? 

[00:15:46] April Wachtel: That's a great question. So I had been funding it, so at the time I was consultanting for Diageo at like, so I, I probably was doing a hundred hour weeks between the consulting work and dang swallow stuff.

Yeah, it was, it was, it was a, okay, 

[00:15:58] Penny Fitzgerald: so you had another [00:16:00] income stream that was like, you weren't solely getting paid from your company? Oh yeah. 

[00:16:05] April Wachtel: I had not been paid by my business for, for the entire time. It was for like four and a half. Oh gosh. So I was, I was always working this as like a, as a, as a side gig.

Okay. Um, but in, yeah, so we started in Crush in in 2020. Um, we launched again in March, I think it was maybe June or July that I reached out to my consultant clients. Um. Who kind of were the intermediary between myself and Diageo and, and said, Hey, I can't do, I can't do this anymore. And maybe it was later in the year, I forget, but it was like a number of months had elapsed.

Um, and simultaneously I was able to get an EIDL loan from, from the SBA. That was nice. Yeah, it was because of COVID. Um, and then, so we actually didn't have to raise money. We just. Use that money and then, you know, all the revenue from the business. Um, we probably didn't have to start raising money until 2021.

[00:17:00] Um, and that's been its own interesting sort of slow moving journey. Um mm-hmm. But I, I, that's yet another reason that I think we were so fortunate, given the timing. 

[00:17:11] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause as an entrepreneur, you're wearing all those hats. You have to have the right product. It has to taste good, has to the quality control.

Mm-hmm. The production. Mm-hmm. The shipping, the facilities health concern, you know, all of the boxes to check, and you're wearing all those hats. Right. And plus getting financing and keeping track of the administrative part of it. 

[00:17:39] April Wachtel: Yeah, I mean, this is yet another look. I am so interested in learning about, you know, how people go through these journeys.

Um, and, um, you know, we're, we're, we're. We have like a decent footprint, so our revenue's not terrible. Um, like we're in about 1300 accounts, we're launching into three to 400 [00:18:00] new, um, stores, you know, casinos and things like that in the next couple months. So we've got, this is gonna be a big growth year for us.

Um, but what I have learned sort of recently is there's a, you know, in terms of revenue, like annual revenue mm-hmm. Up until you. Four or $5 million in annual revenue. You like. The way these businesses work is there's just not enough money to get the help that you 

[00:18:26] Penny Fitzgerald: need. 

[00:18:27] April Wachtel: So we've had to be really crafty about how we bring help in, because technically while I have like a sort of big-ish team, I'm the only full-time employee on the business.

[00:18:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:39] April Wachtel: So it's really interesting, like when you see businesses like at my stage, which again, I think. From the outside, we probably look like we're crushing it. It's like, well, yeah, I still do the majority of our ops. I still am fundraising, which in itself is a full-time job, you know? 

[00:18:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:55] April Wachtel: Still building out all the marketing and like, man, doing all the hiring and, you know, [00:19:00] managing all the teams and stuff like that.

So it's just, it's, it's, it's quite interesting and, uh, yeah. 

[00:19:06] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, marketing is a whole another beast. 

[00:19:09] April Wachtel: It is. It is. And it's actually my favorite of The Beasts. Really? Um, oh yeah. And it's also the one that we've been able to do the least of because like to your point about checking boxes and just having a lot of responsibility, we run a manufacturing facility, we manufacture, we fulfill everything in house currently and mm-hmm.

If you look at any one of those elements, um. There's the food safety to your point, there's the quality control, there's the managing of the staff. There's like the what if the staff calls out sick? Then I've gotta find replacements. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's just on the manufacturing side. Like there's so many things there.

Um. So, um, so yeah, so I'm really excited because actually as of yesterday we, um, one of our existing investors who's like a very experienced growth marketer, um, both with digital products as well as physical CPG products. Mm-hmm. [00:20:00] She's coming on in a fractional capacity starting Monday. So. 

[00:20:03] Penny Fitzgerald: Nice. 

[00:20:04] April Wachtel: Yeah. I'm so excited.

Um, I'm so excited. This is gonna be like a huge unlock for us. 

[00:20:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's so cool. So how are you. Currently doing the marketing. Are you, I see you on social media. Yeah. Yeah. And, and a podcast. You have a podcast, right? 

[00:20:21] April Wachtel: Correct. Correct. Correct. Mm-hmm. Called and Shakers. Um, yeah, so the, the way that we have been doing this so far is it's been really piecemeal.

It's literally been like when April has, you know, an extra couple hours, she does things for market. What is that? Yeah. But no, so I, I mean, here's the thing, and I think this is again, probably interesting to some of your like aspiring entrepreneur folks or just people who are curious about how you. Build an idea is like, um, so we have, we have pr so when you look at like an early stage startup, which I would consider us to be, um, PR is one of the opportunities that if, um, it's kind of all or nothing where it's like I.

Maybe, maybe [00:21:00] five PR hits don't generate business, or maybe they generate like a hundred thousand dollars in business depending on the placement. So that's something that from an organic perspective, like I think just having a unique product that was timely. We got a lot of like great media, so like. Two features in the New York Times, like named one of the best beverage gifts for foodies in New York Times, oh, sorry.

In New York Magazine and Bon Appetit. But we've actually, we have a, an amazing PR person who has been, um, you know, pitching us and all that stuff in this process. So that's thing one. Um, and that's been great because she's a super pro. Um, so I don't really, I don't need to manage her. Um, then on the other marketing stuff we have, we dabble with organic.

There's a lot of folks who share our product out, so we. Just amplify that a little bit. Um, we do some sort of retention, um, work, which is just, you know, sending out emails to our subscribers, things like that. Um, and then we've done a lot of partnerships as well. Like we had a really notable one with, [00:22:00] um, Kendall and Chris Jenner for 8 1 8, and that.

Wow. Has continued. Yeah. That has continued, as you can imagine, to, um, drive a lot of traffic and interest. 

[00:22:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:22:10] April Wachtel: Um, so that's what we've done to date. But the major thing that, um, I will be working on with Vanessa, who's this, um, the growth marketer I mentioned, is, um, we are building out the whole digital side of the business as well, so.

You know, virtual cocktail classes, um, nice. Like all the downloads and instructional and how to batch and bringing in a lot of other, um, you know, bar professionals as well to share their tips and tricks. So we'll be building that out and then knitting that together and bundling with a physical product.

So, um, yeah, I, I mean, I feel like we've done a lot, but not spent a lot to date. And then this is, that's great. Gonna be like a really intentional, you know, yeah. Initiative. This is our go-to-market. 

[00:22:52] Penny Fitzgerald: Been scrappy. 

[00:22:53] April Wachtel: Oh, yes, yes, yes. As you have to be, you know? You have 

[00:22:56] Penny Fitzgerald: to be. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Like fresh [00:23:00] ideas and just take it and run with it.

Test it. Yeah. See if it works. Totally. Don't just keep it in your mind like, oh, that maybe I don't, but probably not, you know? Yeah. We talk ourselves out of all those things. 

[00:23:10] April Wachtel: Totally. And I think the other thing that, like, I just didn't know when I got into this is like, something that does not work now does not mean it won't work because it's about, it's about where attention is.

It's about the cultural conversation. Like how do people find things? Like what is your personal behavior? Like how do you, how, like if you're evaluating product, like how do, how do you learn about it and what convinces you to purchase? Like, so it's about. Like human behavior, which I think is super interesting.

Um, and so testing and learning most 

[00:23:40] Penny Fitzgerald: of the time. 

[00:23:41] April Wachtel: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it can be, it can be off-putting as well, but that's a different, that's a different podcast. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, it's, it's super interesting and, uh, and, and you have to try like thousands and thousands of things to see what ultimately will work.

[00:23:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And what feels good. Yeah. You know, not only what, what's working, but, [00:24:00] you know, do I wanna keep doing it? 

[00:24:02] April Wachtel: Sure. Sure. I mean, that being said though, there is, there are some things where I'm like, this is dumb. I don't like this, but it works. And so it's like, that's another thing is just being like, it's not about necessarily like what I think is right.

I mean, from a moral perspective, you know, we're not gonna like advertise on a channel that fundamentally we disagree with their values. Yeah, right. But. I do think that people oftentimes say like, I'm not on TikTok. Like, I don't understand it. So like, why would anyone, and they just discount the entire channel.

[00:24:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:36] April Wachtel: Um, that I think is something to be avoided because again, it's about, it's like if you have a, a, a guest in your home, it's not that you're trying to feed them the food that you like, it's feed them. Right. That you think they will like. 

[00:24:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:50] April Wachtel: So I think it's, yeah. That's 

[00:24:50] Penny Fitzgerald: interesting. A lot of people, um, a lot of the entrepreneurs I work with in my coaching are like, oh God, I hate social media.

Like, well, is that 'cause they're it and they [00:25:00] feel over well, probably. Yeah, absolutely. And they, I think they're afraid to be seen. Mm-hmm. You know, there's a lot of that, that whole, um, imposter syndrome and all those lies that we believe mm-hmm. That, you know, we're not worthy. Or it, we can't put it out there until we're perfect or I gotta practice this real 10 times before I do it.

Yeah. Or going live and No, that's not what it's about. 

[00:25:27] April Wachtel: Totally. And it's interesting too because like, you know, I know that the more, the farther you get from your core, like friends and family who mm-hmm. Follow you and support you, the more of that like anonymous, um. Let's say criticism, 

[00:25:47] Penny Fitzgerald: you know, trolls, come on.

[00:25:49] April Wachtel: Oh yeah. Trolls come out. Um, and, and I think all of us, especially with something that's so personal as your business or your idea, yeah. You really, you're like, oh, do I wanna [00:26:00] open, you know, do I wanna open myself up? Mm-hmm. To it, but it's unavoidable and mm-hmm. Obviously you can't please everybody. And if somebody is spending their time saying nasty things on, you know, a random account that's not about you, that's about them and their shitty life.

Excuse my language. Yeah, no, that's, you're 

[00:26:17] Penny Fitzgerald: spot on. Spot on. I had my first troll, um, about a month ago, and I'm like. Rock on. Yeah. It's like I'm finally, something's happening. Yeah. 

[00:26:31] April Wachtel: You know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's, it's, I, I feel like that relates to sales as well, which is like, if you flip it from, you know, I'm scared of rejection, I don't want rejection, and you flip it too, um, it's going to require.

10, 20, a hundred rejections in order to get the sale. 

[00:26:49] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:49] April Wachtel: Then you're like, well now I wanna get those rejections. So it's the same thing, which is just like, oh, the, I need a bunch of trolls to like actually mean that I've actually become like [00:27:00] a cultural, I. Of cultural relevant relevance, something's happening.

Yeah. Right, right. So it just helps write of passage. Yeah. My pivots. Yeah. 

[00:27:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, exactly. Well, and what it, his unintended, um, consequence was that it boosted my out, the, my stuff was starting to be seen by others then. Yeah. Because he commented. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I'm like, thank you. Well, congratulations. Yeah.

[00:27:27] April Wachtel: Thank you. 

[00:27:29] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, 

[00:27:30] April Wachtel: totally. Yeah. And, and that's the thing too, is like recently, I know, um, there have been a hand handful of like, very controversial, you know, marketing, I mean, this is the nature of marketing, right? Mm-hmm. But like, I, I think, um, I think the most, the most recent very controversial marketing campaign that I've seen, it was the, uh, mm-hmm.

It was like the doctor swatch, um, Sidney Sweeney. Bathwater soap thing. Oh, I haven't seen that. The fact that it's even coming up in [00:28:00] this conversations means they have done their job, which is Right. Made this be noticed. Yes. They made this custom bar that's like allegedly with Sydney Sweeney's bathwater 'cause she's beautiful and like whatever object, uhhuh desire.

And, and, and the majority of the comments are like, this is disgusting. Why would you do that? And, and just the fact that it, it, um, generated this dialogue is the purpose of the thing. It's funny, it is cheeky, you know, that is the sort of thing that cheeky should do if it were topically relevant. Um, but like it started a conversation even though a huge amount of the comments were like, Ew.

Um, 

[00:28:36] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. So yeah. That's, that's interesting because. You know, you, you're told to follow the trends, recreate some of these things that people are doing for shock value, and that's the kind of thing to me, does not feel good. 

[00:28:51] April Wachtel: Yeah. Oh yeah. I, I, I don't think, I don't like feeling derivative either. I. 

[00:28:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:28:57] April Wachtel: Um, and I, I, I do think like [00:29:00] when you see like the Beyonce, like the Beyonce reaction at the whatever, award ceremony that was where she, she won, was it the Grammys?

Um, where she won, she won like best album for Cowboy Carter. Yeah. Her face was legitimately, it was really fun. She was like horrified and she was like frozen in this like, horrified 'cause she just was like not, not expecting it. Mm-hmm. I think like everybody saw it and was like, oh, this is so, like, this is a really funny reaction you could totally make into a meme.

But then, then like, you know, within two hours you see every brand account makes it into a meme. 

[00:29:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh wow. And to 

[00:29:39] April Wachtel: me that that's the sort of thing where it's like, this is a fun phenomenon. It was a fun reaction. It is topically relevant and. Culturally relevant, but it also feels kind of like, eh, if, if, if it's clearly such a forced 

[00:29:57] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:29:59] April Wachtel: yeah.

[00:30:00] Piece of content. 

 I listened to a lot of, um, of Gary v and, um, recently I've listened to a lot of Alex Hermozi.

Um, and you know, I think Gary V is like the, the best resource for these things. But, you know, his, his point is, it's about that we're in, in an era of interest media now, 

[00:30:19] Penny Fitzgerald: Uhhuh. Yeah. Which is, 

[00:30:20] April Wachtel: it's not about like. Curating your feed or your grid and you know, having the precise, perfectly articulated message laid out over, you know, nine squares on Instagram.

It's about like posting a piece of content that's, that hits for whatever reason. Now, it could be the hook, it could be the content, it could be the fact that it's culturally tapped in. It could just be, I mean, if it's a topic, like let's just say it's like. Dating where it has nothing to do with like the news.

Mm-hmm. But it has something very strongly to do with like human instinct and like how people feel when [00:31:00] they're in love or rejected or whatever. Like you can completely s you know, depart from the news. So I get mm-hmm. That, that fe that feeling of like, I don't wanna just be chasing the news in order to have something to say.

I agree. That sucks. And I also agree that's not. In most cases, that's not distinctive enough for people to 

[00:31:19] Penny Fitzgerald: think. Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:20] April Wachtel: That's my personal, yeah. 

[00:31:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. So might get people to notice once they're, you know, once you bump up in the algorithms, then Yeah. But you have to keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I just try and keep focused on, okay, what, what will serve my people? What, what do they wanna see? Who are they? What do they like? What do they need? 

[00:31:39] April Wachtel: Yep. 

[00:31:40] Penny Fitzgerald: And how can I fill that need? 

[00:31:42] April Wachtel: Yes. And, and I am, that is also my mentality. And I, and I, mm-hmm. You know, again, I, I endorse, I endorse whatever works for people, but like that's mm-hmm.

Ultimate perspective. Um, and I think that there are ways to tweak that as well to your benefit. You [00:32:00] know, like not a malicious way, but just so, so that it works for you as well. And so that's something actually I've started dabbling with. Um. Like maybe three weeks ago, I spent like four to five hours trying to translate.

Cocktail tips that I knew were valuable mm-hmm. Into piece of short form content that actually perform. Because like as I mentioned, I do marketing when I have like just a bunch of extra time, and that rarely happens. So like we don't have a consistent social. So what I found was really interesting, which is like, there's one example video I'll share, which is, it was a 32nd video that I, that I made on like how to cut lime wheels and I.

Just took that video. I changed the cover. I changed a little bit of like the copy that I put in the post itself and I posted it to, um, TikTok, Instagram reels and YouTube shorts, 

[00:32:48] Penny Fitzgerald: uhhuh, 

[00:32:48] April Wachtel: and that one video. As a combination of all those things. The topic, the length, the hook at the beginning. Yeah, the copy, the cover.

Um, that one video has gotten over [00:33:00] 150,000 views on social. 

[00:33:01] Penny Fitzgerald: Nice. 

[00:33:02] April Wachtel: But, so my point of this whole story is that this is content that we've been posting anyway, but I didn't have the other elements of like. Right. The platform, the hook algorithms. But yeah, I didn't have that stuff nailed or dialed in. Mm-hmm.

And I think that's where it's interesting is you can take stuff that you're like, okay, maybe I'm getting like a hundred views or 50 views or 200 views, and like, why isn't it performing better? Because I know the content is valuable. 

[00:33:29] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:30] April Wachtel: It's, it turns out, again, there's like a few little tweaks that you can make that are hugely impactful, particularly at the hook as you've said.

Uh, yeah. So anyway, this is just my recent journey and I thought 

[00:33:40] Penny Fitzgerald: it was. That's fantastic. Yeah, I think people can use that 'cause yeah, you don't know. I mean, you try a bunch of things and whatever hits, it's like spaghetti on the wall, you know? Totally. 

[00:33:50] April Wachtel: And I think the other thing that's interesting about, about this is like, because of this whole interest media business, this means like, for example, with, with [00:34:00] most of those videos that I made in that four to five hour segment that I spent.

Most of those videos, the majority of the, um, of the viewers were not my followers. Meaning that they might just Oh, that's right. It's, it's really interesting. A and B Yeah. That also means is that actually liberates you to say, I'm not gonna be anxious about, you know, what if they see this and then they hate the other content because they might just see that one piece of content.

So I actually started testing the exact same video with different covers or different CTAs or whatever, side by side. And just to see how that one variable performed. Like if, if the hook is different, does that bring different people in? If the covers d because you're like, if, if, if I were so focused on all of my followers being like, why are you posting the same video?

Oh geez. Like you couldn't do the test, but knowing most people won't see another piece of your content 

[00:34:51] Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm. I 

[00:34:52] April Wachtel: think is super interesting and is super liberating. 

[00:34:55] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, for sure. And you know, people don't realize, okay, even if they [00:35:00] saw it and you reposted it. So what they may not remember that they may have been scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and not seen it.

Or they may have seen it and go, oh, it's being posted again. You know, people don't think like that and it's not like, it's not like 

[00:35:14] April Wachtel: their problem, you know, like they're kind like, they're kind of like not gonna Yeah. They're not gonna sit there being like, what a dummy, you know, like, no. Why are they, um.

Yeah. So I, I think that, uh, to sum that up, and this is related to something you were saying earlier too, is it's, I think we, we all get concerned like, oh, the entire world is watching and if I make them, the entire world will know that I'm bad at this. Mm-hmm. And it's like, guess what? They are distracted by millions of other things they have.

Yeah. They probably will not remember this happening in the first place. Yeah. So, like, just try to be as memorable as you can in that one, in that one piece of tent. 

[00:35:52] Penny Fitzgerald: What's worse is my sister will see this, my cousin, my friend from high school. You know, all those things. Yeah. I think [00:36:00] people worry about, and yeah, you know, what, what are they doing?

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. Who cares? Yeah, exactly. The ones who want the best for you, your friends, your, your loved ones, they will not care. I mean, they're not gonna care. But the one, you know, if, if that's a person that's gonna. Judge you anyway. Yeah. First of all, they're not, 'cause they, they have their own lives.

Get over yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they're not looking at you for their own validation. Yeah. But unless they're a troll sitting in their mom's basement. 

[00:36:29] April Wachtel: Yeah, totally. And so it's, it's, so, it's actually funny. So we, we've done very little paid advertising of any kind, Uhhuh. Um, but I ran a, um, a, a Facebook ad on our two to one honey syrup.

So the reason you need a two to one, so what what this is, is it means it's two parts. Wildflower honey, one part water. There's no preserves, nothing official, et cetera. 

[00:36:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

[00:36:49] April Wachtel: So this is like, yeah. So if you wanna do, um, like a gold rush or a bee's knees, or like any of these cocktails require honey, the reason you need a product like this.

Is because, um, [00:37:00] undiluted honey freezes up on the inside of the shaker, and so. The majority of our customers, they want something that will, is easily mixable where they don't have to do an extra step. They don't like, of course they can make it on their own, but, um, most people don't wanna be measuring and then cooking and then cooling and then like doing, they just don't wanna do all those steps.

[00:37:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. So 

[00:37:21] April Wachtel: this funny enough, was incredibly polarizing and, um, you know, we received a. Like a lot of comments where people are just like, Ugh, who would ever buy this thing? Like, that's so dumb. Like just, oh, you're kidding. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. but I was like, we've sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of this one product, so like, I really don't care what you have to say because you're wrong.

And it's like, sure, it's not a product for you. And Sure. You like, just wanna hate on like. Anyone who has 

[00:37:49] Penny Fitzgerald: and whatever. Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:51] April Wachtel: Yeah. But, um, but yeah, unfortunately, unsolicited criticism is, uh, is just part of our lives. 

[00:37:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, and thanks for boosting my algorithm, so 

[00:37:59] April Wachtel: Yeah, yeah, [00:38:00] exactly, exactly. Comment. You know, any engagement is good.

Yeah, that's right. Thank y'all. And cheers. And cheers. Exactly, exactly. 

[00:38:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my gosh. Okay. So, um, I. What, what would you love to share with my audience that I haven't asked you? I'm, I feel like, um, we've talked a lot about marketing, but, 

[00:38:24] April Wachtel: well, well, here's a, here's a question. So what, what, what do you think. Your audience, um, what comes to your show for, because again, I, I think that there's many aspects of the story that I could share, but I wanna make sure I deliver value.

[00:38:41] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Well that's interesting. That's a great question. 'cause I feel like, um, part of my audience are female entrepreneurs who are looking to be seen. Mm-hmm. And looking to try and figure out, um, how to make their. Business, what they're trying to grow. Yep. Grow. Mm-hmm. And then [00:39:00] the other part of my audience are fun loving cocktail lovers.

Okay. Also, I, I also have a, a sipper club that I do once a month where I create a craft cocktail and, um, great. Yeah. Super fun. So I'm thinking, okay, we gotta use some cheeky stuff. 

[00:39:17] April Wachtel: Yes. And I, I would love to send you some by the way, so, oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. We'll do, 

[00:39:20] Penny Fitzgerald: we'll do a, a cocktail for my membership then, um, once a.

Once a month we get together and sip a new cocktail. Love, and it's just super fun. We get together on Zoom and talk and stuff, so part of my audience is like all about the cocktail. Sure, yeah. Sure. So you are perfect for this. 

[00:39:37] April Wachtel: This is, it really is a, is is an excellent intersection. Um, of it's, okay. So I'll, I'll say this.

So, so the first thing before I forget it is I can get you a discount for your folks, so if you want to share Oh, wonderful. For your members, I'm happy to get that. Um, so we can just like, discuss that afterward. That's amazing. Yeah, totally. My pleasure. Thank you. Um, of course. Uh, and then I would say. [00:40:00] I would say again, because so many of the principles of entrepreneurship have parallels in with other creative endeavors, what I would say is, um, maybe two main pieces of advice, like thing number one is getting started, like that first step is the hardest.

[00:40:17] Penny Fitzgerald: So 

[00:40:17] April Wachtel: moving from inertia, being a, a complete standstill to taking action intellectually, that is the hardest thing for people to do, and it is the scariest. So. My advice always to, you know, aspiring entrepreneurs or creatives who are trying to take that first step is like, it will not be perfect. Take that step, whatever it is, take a little step and take another little step and take another little step.

And the interesting thing is momentum, you know, carries in all areas of your life. So even if you're feeling totally like bound up and um. Stuck professionally. If you take a new step and you put yourself out [00:41:00] there where it's, you're trying a new dance class, or you're, you know, you pick up a weightlifting class or whatever, or you start like a, a hiking group or anything like that, those things translate to that feeling of momentum and empowerment in the rest of your life.

Mm-hmm. So whatever it is it, like literally, even if the action is like Google. Google how to start a website or better yet, put it into chat, GBT 'cause it's gonna give you a better answer. Um, so take the first step. It is definitely the hardest and you have to force yourself. It, it's hard for everybody.

You have to force yourself. So that's, yeah, that's thing one. And then I would say thing two is you would, you'd mentioned this earlier, um, people are afraid to be seen and therefore, I think one of the things that contributes to that inertia at the beginning of a process is. Being afraid to share your idea with other people.

[00:41:53] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:41:54] April Wachtel: And when you share that idea with other people, be careful about who you share with, because you know that there's the people who look like friends and they're [00:42:00] actually haters, don't share it with them. Mm-hmm. But the people, the people that you either are doing the thing that you want to do, like who could be, maybe it's just an entrepreneur that you see on LinkedIn, or like a guest from your show, you know, like mm-hmm.

People who have been successful in the thing that you're doing are most likely, like a huge amount of them want to pay it forward. Yes. Those are the people that you should tap into. And also the, I'll say one other piece about that is, is also be careful about people who are like super invested in your wellbeing.

Like if it's your mom Yes. Doesn't want you to take a risk. Like they don't 

[00:42:39] Penny Fitzgerald: want you to 

[00:42:40] April Wachtel: be hurt. Yeah. If they're invested to that degree, maybe that's not the best person either, but like, no. But really the people, again, like entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, creatives who are more, more farther along. Those are great people to just hit up cold and just say, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this.

I, I super admire you. I, you know, I was hoping, you know, I'd love to ask you a question or, [00:43:00] or like, if you'd be willing to, you know, give me two or three resources or like, you know, would you be willing to hop on a, you know, 20 minute call? Like I would super appreciate it. People like to do that. Um, and then the final thing is really connected with that last statement that I, that I made, um, is that, um, asking for help is a strength.

It's not a vulnerability. 

[00:43:22] Penny Fitzgerald: Absolutely. 

[00:43:24] April Wachtel: And particularly, I mean, men and women have a hard time asking for help, but um, I know for sure that. You know, there's so much weight and expectation put on women to mm-hmm. Be perfect and to do everything perfectly and do the, the job and the house and the kids and the friends and the, it's you being able to approach people and say, I love you, or I appreciate you.

Would you be willing or able to help me with this? Or do you know anyone who could? It is super [00:44:00] empowering people. If people do not treat the request with respect, they are not worthy of being in your life. So it's also a really good, like editing function of being like, that person was a jerk, or like that person did not treat this with care.

[00:44:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:19] April Wachtel: Or was actively rude or dismissive, like, 

[00:44:22] Penny Fitzgerald: or didn't take me seriously, 

[00:44:24] April Wachtel: file that away, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but, but yeah, I mean that like. That's, I think it's one of the hardest things, A, in life, B, like in the fundraising process as well. And this is something that, like, I've had to coach myself over this hump a billion times, but it's like, Hey, you know, you can't say no for other people because what is likely, the truth is that there's hundreds or thousands of people who are.

Who would love to help you, and if you say no for them before you actually know what they think. [00:45:00] Yeah. You've 

[00:45:00] Penny Fitzgerald: made the decision for them that for both of 

[00:45:01] April Wachtel: you. 

[00:45:02] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:45:05] April Wachtel: Yeah. 

[00:45:05] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's such great advice. All of that. 

[00:45:07] April Wachtel: Thank you. It comes from personal experience, but also like, you know, being in a network of other, you know, women entrepreneurs who are Yeah.

Through something similar 

[00:45:18] Penny Fitzgerald: and male entrepreneurs. Yeah. Well, and some of our friends. Not only wanna keep us safe and don't want us to be hurt, but they also don't want you to grow out of them. You know, 

[00:45:31] April Wachtel: that's a toughie. 

[00:45:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's big. 

[00:45:34] April Wachtel: And that's, and that's something that's, again, I, I, I didn't, I feel like I did not have to deal with this for years, but to be frank, that's something that I'm dealing with right now is like, you know, I've had, you know, a bunch of friendships for 10, 20 plus years.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. People don't necessarily want you to change and evolve and, um 

[00:45:56] Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm. 

[00:45:57] April Wachtel: You know, oftentimes I think when [00:46:00] people are not cheering for your success, it's because they feel like it reflects poorly on them if they're not Yeah. Achieving at the same level, or if they're not ambitious at the same level.

That's saying something in quotation marks, you know, about them. And, um. Navigating those relationships and deciding like, which ones am I going to continue to invest in and which ones shall I divest from? You know? So it's hard. 

It's really hard. 

[00:46:29] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, and sometimes, You each bring something different to the table and you know, if you don't want to change the way that you are, I love you anyway. Mm-hmm. And that's fine.

But, um, you know, I need to do this for me is that they, if they're holding you back is one thing, but mm-hmm. I think that's where it gets hard, where it's difficult if they don't want you to grow. 

[00:46:51] April Wachtel: Yeah. And, and the, the other piece too, and this is something that I again, I personally have been navigating recently is, um, you know, my [00:47:00] standard of how I wanna be treated and what I will accept has, 

[00:47:04] Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm.

Has 

[00:47:05] April Wachtel: really grown. And what I realized is like the me even a few years ago. Would make excuses for people and say, oh, they're just like a little bit quirky, you know, like, that's, it's, they don't, right, they don't mean anything wrong or bad from this. And so I made excuses for things where I'm like, no, no, no.

They're an adult. They are, uh, responsible for their actions and they're responsible for the message they deliver And, um, and there's like been a, repeated behavior that. Is now very clear to me. I no longer accept this. My standard is higher, and letting go of those people without, yeah, without, negative feelings and just being like, that was a, a chapter of my life.

I loved that person and loved that experience and that no longer serves me. I think that is, it's again, it's, it's definitely bittersweet and it's also [00:48:00] really important to do. 

[00:48:01] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. Mm-hmm. You can't serve your people. You can't serve your, like, you can't be what you're, you can't lift others up if you are being held back or if you hold yourself back.

[00:48:16] April Wachtel: Yeah. Yeah. I heard something recently, I think this might have been an Alex Hermozi thing, but um, he was saying that, um, You cannot not expect above average results and expect to be liked by average people. And it's not to say it's like it's us and it's them, but it's just, it's just these two things are in in incongruous.

Mm-hmm. It just not possible. And I think that's fantastic. Oh yeah. Oh my God. I was like, when I heard that, I was like, Ooh, yeah, preach that. That makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Um, 

[00:48:46] Penny Fitzgerald: yes it does. So yeah. Okay, let's, let's talk about something fun. 

[00:48:50] April Wachtel: Yeah. 

[00:48:51] Penny Fitzgerald: Cocktails. Yes. Yes. Let's do it. Okay. So what is, do you have a favorite?

I mean, there I am [00:49:00] sure there are many 'cause we're alike in that way. Yes. 

[00:49:04] April Wachtel: It, I mean, 

[00:49:05] Penny Fitzgerald: it, 

[00:49:05] April Wachtel: it depends. So my go-to go-tos, like if I'm in any bar, anywhere in the world kind of vibe. Mm-hmm. So like two things that I just know that I love, I love, I love dirty martinis like. With a little bit fancier olives. Um, I love negronis, so I love like bitter flavor.

[00:49:24] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:25] April Wachtel: Um, another classic that, um, I have indulged in many a time, which I very much enjoy, is like a classic daiquiris. So just rum, lime, simple. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and then there's like a million different. Tiny little iterations, like add a splash of fresh pineapple. It is delightful. 

[00:49:41] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm mm-hmm. And like, 

[00:49:42] April Wachtel: dances on, you know, dances on your tongue.

Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I have like, there's like a million cocktails that I love, like I love the French 75, which is the gin cocktail, uh, you know, lemon simple, and then top with sparkling wine or champagne. Mm-hmm. There's, there's, there's, [00:50:00] oh, I love a jungle bird too. Um, which is, what's that? It is, so it's a, it's a combination of bitter and tropical.

So, um, there's a, you know, there's a lot of different, uh, recipes for it, but typically it's like a, um, a Jamaican or like really very flavorful, funky dark rum. So some, uh, black strap in there, which is again, it tastes 

[00:50:25] Penny Fitzgerald: like, Ooh. 

[00:50:26] April Wachtel: Yeah. It's like, um, it tastes sort of like, tastes like, sort of like dark molasses with like, almost like a burnt quality to it, which doesn't uhhuh one, but it really adds nuance to the cocktail.

Lime. Um, pineapple. What else did I forget That might I, that might have been it. Um, but it's, it's, oh, I'm sorry. And then, and then, and then kaari. Um, so it's, oh, bitter. It's like a little bit. Nice. It's like a little bit of a burn nuance. Tropical Uhhuh tricy, I'm really describing it very, very poorly, but it is for somebody who likes bitter, like sort of strong [00:51:00] flavors.

It is Uhhuh Delicious and it's one of those, it's one of those flavor profiles that's like, it's. It's tart enough that you just kind, you just like really just wanna drink more and it's uhhuh really complex and delicious anyway. Yeah, that's, yeah. 

[00:51:14] Penny Fitzgerald: Complex is what came to mind when you was describing. Yes.

Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I feel a Sipper Club recipe coming on. 

[00:51:21] April Wachtel: Ooh. Well again, it is polarizing. So if, so there's uhhuh, there are people who, if you don't like bitter, you should definitely with this cocktail. So there's bitter evolved as a, uh, like survival. Mechanism, so, mm-hmm. The human palate actually should really dislike bitter things, but there are some of us, a smaller subset of people who love bitter.

So if you love bitter people love this cocktail. If you do not like bitter, if you don't like Campari, or even Aperol, for example, 

[00:51:47] Penny Fitzgerald: Uhhuh. Oh, those are two of my favorite things. 

[00:51:49] April Wachtel: Okay, perfect, perfect. You'll love it. You'll, 

[00:51:51] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Well, and um, what I like to do too, on my, um, in my recipes that I come up with, I come up with, you know, my [00:52:00] version and then a.

Okay, this one's a little bit more palatable, or you might like to try it with this instead. Or, you 

[00:52:05] April Wachtel: know, 

[00:52:06] Penny Fitzgerald: flip this in or add this. 

[00:52:08] April Wachtel: Totally. 

[00:52:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:52:10] April Wachtel: What's your favorite? 

[00:52:11] Penny Fitzgerald: What's my favorite? You know what you said, um, the honey drinks. Um mm-hmm. Have you had a bee sting? I have. Yes. I love that. Yeah, because it's kind of the best of both worlds.

Yeah. It's got a little bit of a stain, you know, a little spiciness to it with the jalapeno. Yeah. 

[00:52:28] April Wachtel: Yeah. We actually, we have a hot honey also, by the way. Ooh. Yeah. We, so we did, we do all the r and d inhouse as well, and so we had done Uhhuh. All we tried all these different peppers. 

[00:52:38] Penny Fitzgerald: Fun Fridays. Oh yeah. 

[00:52:40] April Wachtel: Well, I mean, I can tell you though, so when we make the hot honey, because we are basically steeping, habanero in like boiling honey.

Oh my God. It's like, it's like, bring your gas mask to workday. It's like, oh, I'm 

[00:52:50] Penny Fitzgerald: sure 

[00:52:51] April Wachtel: it's a little, it's a little much. But uh, but yeah. 

[00:52:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Anyway, so I love it. Yeah. Okay, so what's a favorite memory over a cocktail? A good cocktail with [00:53:00] some friends. Uh, you mean a, a memory of me having cocktails 

[00:53:03] April Wachtel: with friends?

Yes. 

[00:53:04] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:05] April Wachtel: Oh, gosh. I mean, this is a toughie because again, I so many, I've had so many, uh, well, I have a funny, I. Cocktail date story. 

[00:53:16] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's fun. Yes. 

[00:53:18] April Wachtel: Okay. I, I, I'll, I'll try to keep this concise. So I went to this, I went to this bar again. We were having cocktails. It was in, it was in Brooklyn. And, um, there were board games at this place.

And they really didn't have like a robust kitchen. They just had like a sandwich press. Um, and we ordered food and there were like little candles all around and were, you know. My date and I are at the bar and, and we're, uh, and we're drinking and, and is this a first date situation? It was first date. It was a first date.

Okay. Yes. And um. I order like a grilled cheese. And the bartender is also responsible for making it. So they go to put the grilled cheese on, and then my date's like, why don't we play this game? I, it was [00:54:00] like trivial pursuit or something. So he like gets out the box and he, you know, takes the box top off and we lay out the thing.

And then a few, maybe like 15, 20 seconds later, we're like, we like start sniffing. We're like, something is broken. Oh no. And so I say like, I'm sorry, bartender, like. Is that my sandwich? And your eyes pop open? Huge. My date's eyes pop open. Huge. 'cause now it's, the smell is getting like more aggressive. The bartender like rushes over to the, to the sandwich and is like, no, no, no, it's fine.

And like takes it off and is like, I don't know what this is. And the smells like. Two seconds later, it smells like much worse. And we turn around and, and my day goes, oh my God. He had taken the top of the game box and put it directly on top of a candle. So the box is like, now on fire. This woman sitting next to him goes, I got it.

And she takes her like full pint beer and she douses the top of the entire bar, like erupts it until like, erupted until like applause. And we're like, wow. So it was just a really funny like, uh, oh my God. Like 15 people being like, you're a hero. [00:55:00] It was just, it was very funny. But yeah, it was, oh, save the alcohol.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. I, I'm sure the bartender hooked her up again, so, but we were like, what? Like there's a mystery. What's, you know, what's happening? So, whoops.

I love that story. 

[00:55:20] Penny Fitzgerald: It was a community at, at that point. 

[00:55:22] April Wachtel: Oh, totally. And I lo like, that's kind of my favorite thing is I lo I love those moments where it's like strangers come together. Uh, yes. Which this is like, New York is such a good city for this, where it's like flash mobs and like just random acts of kindness or like, Aw.

I just, I love that stuff, so, um, 

[00:55:41] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah, I do too special. Oh, yeah. That's great. 

[00:55:45] April Wachtel: Yeah. And alcohol brings people 

[00:55:47] Penny Fitzgerald: together. 

[00:55:47] April Wachtel: Yeah. Yeah. Or the, the, again, well, some people are like, sober, sober, curious, like, but the, the, yeah. Commuting over food and beverage is like, yeah. I mean, that's, it's a thing. Yeah, [00:56:00] yeah, yeah.

For 

[00:56:01] Penny Fitzgerald: some of us it's a lot. 

[00:56:03] April Wachtel: Yeah. Yeah. Are you like a, like a bar drinker, A home drinker? A What's your. 

[00:56:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Um, mostly home because I don't wanna drive and we're in a very rural area. Oh, interesting. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And my husband too. I mean, we both love to cook and we both love to have a good cocktail. Yeah.

Great glass of wine. Yep. Yeah. My, okay. My previous job was, um, as a, um. Where do I start? I did in-home wine tastings and educated people on how to pair it with foods and that sort of thing. So, yeah, was in wine, on the wine side, so yeah. Yeah, we love a good glass of wine. 

[00:56:41] April Wachtel: Totally. Mm-hmm. And so for the sipper club, so is everybody virtual or do you meet or do you, okay.

I didn't know if there, there's like any Okay, gotcha. 

[00:56:50] Penny Fitzgerald: Very cool. Yeah, but a lot of them, a lot of my friends that are part of it were, you know, they're. Friends as well. So we're like, well, we're all friends now because we Yeah, yeah. Come [00:57:00] together once a month, but Sure. But those that are close enough, I, I do get together with, um, when we can.

Very cool. Amazing. Yeah. Fantastic. April, this has been so fun. This has totally been fun. I have left this conversation. Me too. Me too. It's great to meet you. 

[00:57:18] April Wachtel: Likewise, likewise. So, yeah, so I would love to send you samples and then again, let's figure out the, the discount code for your, for, for your people.

Oh, I would love that. You know, I would love people to try it if they're interested. 

[00:57:29] Penny Fitzgerald: Absolutely. Yeah. I'll put all that information and how to find you, how to find your, your cheeky cocktails in the, um, show notes for sure. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. 

Okay.