Penny for your Shots

Self-Worth, Power, & Using Your Voice with Intention

• Penny Fitzgerald • Episode 120

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If you’ve ever questioned your value, your voice, or whether you’re really using your seat at the table the way you’re meant to—this episode is for you.

I’m joined by Sarah Barnes-Humphrey, a longtime logistics leader, podcast host, nonprofit founder, and author whose work centers on self-worth, inclusion, and creating spaces where people feel safe, seen, and heard.

Sarah shares her journey through male-dominated industries, unexpected career pivots, and the quiet inner work of protecting self-worth when titles change, doors close, or life doesn’t go according to plan. Together, we talk about privilege, responsibility, and the power we often give away—without even realizing it.

This is an honest, thoughtful conversation about leadership, presence, and choosing to show up with intention.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • Why self-worth isn’t something you “figure out” once and for all
  • How titles, labels, and external validation can distort confidence
  • Recognizing your power in the rooms you’re already in
  • The responsibility that comes with privilege and visibility
  • Creating safe spaces where real conversations can happen
  • Letting go of shame and giving yourself more grace

If you’re navigating a pivot, stepping into leadership, or feeling the nudge to stop playing small, this conversation will remind you that your voice matters—and how you use it matters, too.

🍸 Grab a drink, settle in, and join us.

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 Self-Worth, Power, & Using Your Voice with Intention 

[00:00:00] If you've ever wondered whether you're doing enough. Showing up fully or using your voice the way you're meant to this conversation is for you. My guest, Sarah Barnes Humphrey, and I talk about self-worth leadership privilege and the responsibility that comes with being in certain rooms at certain times. Sarah's work centers on creating spaces where people feel safe, seen and heard. If you've ever questioned your voice, your [00:01:00] value, or the labels placed on you, grab a glass and settle in. Here is Sarah Barnes Humphrey.

Penny Fitzgerald: feedback. So nice to meet you. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Nice to meet you too. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Well, and and tell me, and tell my audience, you, you were in logistics, right? 

I'm so curious 'cause I, I saw your, the email about your background a bit and I've seen you on LinkedIn of course. And, um, you have a podcast and you help, elevate women in the logistics field, right. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Well, that's just one part of what I do. So yeah, I've been in logistics mm-hmm.

And supply

chain for probably about 25 years at this point. Wow. Um, and so my family had a logistics business, so we were moving. Products by ocean freight and air freight and truck and like all that kind of stuff. Okay. And, um, I started the podcast back in 2016 and um, I started the woman in supply chain series, uh, January, 2018 after my dad closed [00:02:00] his doors and I was out on my butt with nowhere to go.

Um, and so we do have a woman in supply chain series and then I have a second podcast about inclusion in the workplace as well called blended. Oh, very 

Penny Fitzgerald: cool. I love that. Yeah. I, I don't know if, um, your assistants told you, I, um, back in the day, like probably about the time that you guys were starting or that you started in logistics?

I was, um, working for a distribution center. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. So I, I feel your pain about, um, you know, being one of very few women in leadership roles there. Um. Yeah, we had to stick together. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah. I remember going to a conference, I was there for sales and I was like one of three women at the whole conference.

Wow. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Talk about, yeah, it's a different world. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Very, very different world. Yeah. I'm, I'm proud though, to see in the supply chain industry that there's [00:03:00] more women and they're seeing more opportunity and what's available to them. 'cause it's a, it's a great industry to be in. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, absolutely. I loved working the, the job that I had.

It was great being kind of that liaison between the client and the, and customers. So yeah, it was really, really cool. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, 

Penny Fitzgerald: I learned a lot. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, no kidding. There's a lot to learn like supply chain, just with acronyms alone. I think I have a supply chain dictionary on Amazon. It was 107 pages.

I believe it. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, and you've been through some things, right? Not just being a female in a leadership role in a male dominated industry, but then 2020 hits and supply chain went, wow, what a lot of challenges.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, I mean, it went, um, it was good for my business. So I have a, I have a media brand called Let's Talk Supply Chain. Mm-hmm. Um, and when the pandemic hit, [00:04:00] everybody went to digital content and digital media. And that's really just when like live stream was being tested on LinkedIn and things like that.

So I was still trying to figure out my own stuff with the podcast. And then the live streaming happened on LinkedIn and I was testing that out and it was a crazy year 'cause everybody wanted digital marketing, digital media. And so they were coming to us for all sorts of things and I was expanding my offering and trying to figure out what it was that people wanted.

Um, and so yeah, my business exploded in 2020, which was, which was really cool. I was exhausted by December. Um, but it was really, really cool. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Interesting. Yeah. I, you hear about all of the challenges that the, the industry had in that time. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. And 

Penny Fitzgerald: still is having really 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Still does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How do you navigate that? Like, instruction is on a regular basis. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So tell us a little bit about your journey. Like, how did you kind of come to, [00:05:00] well, you mentioned that your family was in the, the industry, but then how did you, how did you start building your own thing? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, well, I've, so I come from two entrepreneurial parents, really, right?

So they, they had this company, I went, uh, I actually didn't go to college or university. I went straight into the family business. Started off as reception. Um, and really as reception, you can learn. All sorts of things about all sorts of different departments. Um, but I spent, after that, I spent about eight years in operations and then eight years in sales.

And 2008 wasn't a good year for a lot of people. It was a great year for me. It was one of my best years in sales. Um, I couldn't tell you my secret sauce on that, but it was a lot of fun. But. I ended up as director of sales and marketing. And while I was working at the family business, I always had side hustles, like always had side hustles.

I had a rent to own business in real estate. [00:06:00] Um, what else? I had, uh, I was a business manager for makeup company and um, also while I was working for the family business, I was terrified of public speaking. And my mom would always say, you know, you need to call Toastmasters. You need to go to Toastmasters.

I don't know if you remember. Mm-hmm. And, but, and at that time, in order to like get your spot, you would have to pick up the phone and call. Well, every time I touched the phone or went even close to the phone to call Toastmasters, my hands would get all sweaty. And I was like, I can't do this. I'm not calling them.

So I actually did something completely out of the. Norm and I went and got a talent agent. I went on all these auditions and I got yelled out of audition rooms 'cause I cannot memorize lines to save my life. And um, yeah, that's how, I mean, I was still nervous. I didn't completely get over it, but it got me in front of the camera and it got me [00:07:00] sort of pretending and out of my, out of my own way.

Um, but it also offered me the opportunity. I was on live TV with Denise Richards twice. I was on a brand power commercial. Um, so there was, there was some really cool things that I got to do, um, by getting that talent agent. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the talent agent was finding, like acting roles for you? Is that what this Oh, wow.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's so out of the realm of logistics. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I know. Well, and when I went to the auditions and I sort of got yelled out of the audition rooms, it, I wasn't too upset about it 'cause I didn't necessarily wanna be an actress. Right. I really just wanted to get outta my own way, so. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Yeah, it's kind of fun.

So a side hustle as a total, um, way to, a way to train yourself in getting out there to push yourself to try something new. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. That's cool, and I actually talk [00:08:00] about that story. I talk about a whole bunch of other sort of stories around my journey in my new book so I'm so excited.

I actually have a copy outside, but I didn't grab it, so, oh, 

Penny Fitzgerald: that's cool. think by the time that this airs, it will be available, so I'll put links in the show notes to that and make sure that people can find it. That's so cool. So congratulations on the book. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Thank you. Thank you. I've wanted to write a book for a long time.

Um, I'm not a supply chain expert, so like I, I've been in logistics for a long time and sure, I can talk about logistics and I can talk about supply chain, but it wa I didn't necessarily wanted to be considered a supply chain expert. I didn't wanna go speak about supply chain really wasn't my jam. And I was sort of trying to figure out what it is, like what's my superpower?

And I went to this, I went to this um, conference last year and they were like, your personal brand should be about one word. I was like, how do you bring [00:09:00] everything together in one word? Like. What do you do, Uhhuh? And so I thought about it. I thought about it. I think I was, yeah, I thought about it for like a couple of days afterwards and I was like, one word.

One word. What is it? What is it that I do? Well, I create safe spaces for conversation. Uh, people feel comfortable with me. When I finish an episode of blended people tell me that they feel seen and they feel heard, and most of them have never met me before. So how do you like bundle that all up into one word?

And then it came to me on my red eye flight on the way home. 'cause I was in California at the time and um, I was like, I think the one word is self-worth. And I took it back to my team and they were like, absolutely not.

And I was like, but why not? And I started to explain it, right? Helping people feel seen and heard. My relationship with self-worth has gone up and down based on my life [00:10:00] experiences and things like that. And so that's what I wrote the book about. It's a, it's a memoir about how, um, you know, how I view and see my self worth based on my life journeys, my life experiences.

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Well, and life is a journey I think of. I saw that. And so is self worth. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yes. Everybody thinks that they need to have it like figured out and sorted out and all the things, and there's a lot of pressure around self-worth. Mm-hmm. Right? You have to feel good about yourself all the time, and it's just not who 

Penny Fitzgerald: does no.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Right. It's, that's not really the human experience. And so how do we take a step back and, and have a little bit of grace for ourselves and go, wait a second. It's okay that I'm feeling like this today because it's gonna be completely different tomorrow. Mm-hmm. But becoming aware of it and what does that look like?

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. You know, when I hear you speaking about it, it sounds very much to me like it's present. Yeah. You know, being present in the [00:11:00] moment and understanding that, okay, this is my journey today. Here's where I am. And being present for the person in front of you, making them feel seen and heard. So you're not off wandering about thinking about all the, the other things that you have to do today.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah. It's also, when you're actually listening, it's also like learning about yourself, I think from, you know, your life experiences. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. You know, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: what is it? Well, we used, sorry, go ahead. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I'm sorry. It sounds very much like you, you pushed yourself to, to learn more about yourself through those experiences, like pushing yourself to go do those auditions.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, I definitely pushed myself into that. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Where'd you get the idea to do that? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, I had some friends at the time who would go on auditions for, um, they actually wanted to become actors. Yeah. And, um, so they were going on auditions [00:12:00] and I don't know, I was just like, you know what? I'm gonna get a talent agent and see what happens.

Why not? Yeah. And then it actually, and, and I think I was talking to a friend of mine at the time and they were like, why don't you try this? Like, if you really can't go to Toastmasters and it scares the bejesus out of you, you know, um, why don't you try something like this and see if this will help? So. I think it was a combination of conversations and mm-hmm.

Trying to think outside of the box. 'cause yeah, I don't know. I have this gut feeling that I needed to get over it, you know, and I'm still not over it to, to, to this day. I speak in front of large, large audiences and things like that. Still not over it. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, wow. You know, I, I've heard that too. A lot of people have that fear of getting up in front of people and speaking.

Mm-hmm. It's, um, some people are more afraid of it than death. I can see that. Yep. Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I don't know. I've always, I, I've always loved performing. I think I, in high school was in plays and stuff and just [00:13:00] absolutely ate it up. Loved did. You loved it. Yes. And did you do anything now? Um, I have not done it since as an adult, but, um.

I'm curious. I wonder if I could, if I could get the lines down. It's a lot different now as a 60 person, you know? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Well either that or, um, you could find some speaking gigs and things like that about what you're, yeah. What you're passionate about. Oh, there is, um, a website called Innovation Women. I don't know if it's dot com or not, but you can Google it.

Uh, they speaking engagements for women all the time. Okay. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I love that innovation. Women written that down. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: And then actually, um, so blended, which is my podcast about inclusion in the workplace. I, uh, I bring five different people together from different walks of life to talk about different inclusion topics.

And I also have a nonprofit tied to that podcast, and we give away grants to cover travel expenses so that diverse voices [00:14:00] can say yes to speaking engagement. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, fun. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: You go get a speaking engagement, but you can't afford the travel. You can always apply to blended for the grant. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's cool. Oh, tell me more about the podcast and about the format and the women that you speak with and what, what that's meant.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, yeah, so the Woman in Supply Chain series on the Let's Talk Supply chain podcast. Mm-hmm. Uh, we feature two women a month, one on the podcast, one on the blog. I've been doing the podcast since 2018, so you can imagine I've done a lot of interviews, which a lot with a lot of like really cool women. And you know, I remember this one episode and it was this lady who worked at this really big brand name and she was very high up.

And she said, she was like, I didn't do enough for the women behind me. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, wow. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. And what did 

Penny Fitzgerald: she mean by that? Do you know? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: She didn't, she, she just didn't do enough for the women [00:15:00] who were coming up behind her Wow. To go to senior leadership roles. Oh. And she was near, towards the, she was near towards retirement.

Um, so more the end of that career than the beginning. Mm-hmm. And she said that that would be, that would've been something that she would've done differently. In her career, but obviously growing up in a different era and all that kind of stuff, there was a lot of competition and things like that, so.

Mm-hmm. You know, um, the fact that she was aware of that and she shared it so publicly, um. That's interesting. Yeah, and it really, really made me realize like the importance of these conversations and making sure that we've got people from all different backgrounds, different walks of life, talking about, you know, their life experiences in their journeys.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And do you feel. That. Do you agree that women are hard on ourselves? Like I, I wonder, yeah. I [00:16:00] wonder, you know, what, how, what made her feel that way? You know, I'm, I, you know, someone who's aware that, self-aware that I didn't help enough. I bet she had more of an impact, a positive impact than she gives herself credit for.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, yeah, I would ab absolutely agree with that. Mm-hmm. Probably more from the outside than maybe the inside of the company that she was actually working for. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, and so like she wasn't necessarily down on herself about it. She was just good, very aware and sharing the fact that that was a regret for her.

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. And, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: you know, even being towards retirement, um. I think being aware, even at that point you can do something about it. I mean, you can still make an impact. You can still, you know, put some time, energy, money and effort into, you know, something that you know you wanna make an impact on. And I think, yeah, [00:17:00] she, I'm, I would assume she's probably doing that.

She is a great person. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's cool. Yeah. That we all can look back and see, okay, I could have done this or I should have done that, or, mm-hmm. You think about the legacy you wanna leave and the the people that you want to lift up and support and yeah, any of us could do more. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. But 

Penny Fitzgerald: you know, doing, do what you can.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. But I also think it's important hearing it from somebody like that. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Because the impact is greater, right. 'cause she's been there. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Well, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: yeah. And that statement makes an impact alone. Yeah. Because if you're somebody within your career that hasn't done it, that's not aware of it, you might take a step back and think, Ooh.

You know what I mean? Right. Like, that's something that I wanna start thinking about within my career. How do I lift those behind me? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Right. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, you know, and then also for the younger generation to hear [00:18:00] that and understand that the. Older generation is becoming more aware of it and understanding that impact.

You know, I, I just think mm-hmm. That kind of authenticity and vulnerability is really important. Mm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That's cool. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about The other podcast that you have as well. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, blended. So, um, yeah, I think it was January, 2020. So the woman in supply chain series, series started January, 2018, Uhhuh and January, 2020.

I have a very blended family and um, I was like, there's more to this inclusion thing than just gender. So what is it that I want to do? And I actually announced it on my live show. I was like, I'm gonna do something. And so people kept bugging me, when is this gonna come out? When is this gonna come out?

And I think by July, I had no idea. I still had no idea what I was gonna do. And I was like, okay, I better get serious about this. Um. And I think I was [00:19:00] watching Red Table Talk at the time and I was like, I wanna do red table talk for podcasts, and I want it to be about inclusion. And so that's what I did.

So, uh, once a month I ask five different people from different walks of life together. No experts. Experts are welcome, but like they don't have to be experts. On the topic and we talk about inclusion. One topic around inclusion in the workplace. So I just released an episode on Privilege. I have another episode coming out on Ethical ai.

Um, and the stories, the perspectives, the questions, um, are just, I don't know. I'm a little bit biased 'cause I'm the host, but I think magic happens on these episodes because most of them have never met each other. Most of them have never met me and we're talking about some super hard topics. So 

Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. Wow.

Don't you feel too that people are so giving of their time and their, their honesty? It feels very much in doing [00:20:00] this podcast, and it's just amazing to me how open the women that I talk to are about their journeys and about what they've experienced. Mm-hmm. And it's just wonderful to come together and hear it.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I love it. It's, it's something that I really enjoy doing 

Penny Fitzgerald: that's so timely. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. I mean, some of the topics that we've talked that we've covered are very, very difficult, like disability and. I've been doing it since 2020. The, the, um, nonprofit's been out since October, 2021.

So yeah, we've got about five 20 volunteers across Blended Pledge, which is the, uh, nonprofit as well. So, super lucky that the, that, you know, these people do trust me to come on the show. Even though they've never really met me to talk about these hard topics, some people get inside their heads, some people get completely in their heads and then they don't [00:21:00] show up on the day.

And so I actually say whoever's meant to be there is meant to be for that episode. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to look at it. Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I had to. Wow. Otherwise I was gonna get mad all the time because people weren't showing up. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, wow. What, what was one of your favorite conversations? Can you recall a, a fun story or not necessarily fun, but really impactful?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, well, when it came to the woman in supply chain series, I would probably say that one that we just talked about, Uhhuh, when it comes to blended, they all have a little bit of magic in them. Mm-hmm. Um, the first episode I ever did, um, I had somebody from the LGBTQIA plus community. We were talking about identity, and he was talking about all sorts of things, and he was like, well, it depends where we are and what we're doing and who we're with and all that kind of stuff.

And I, I looked at him and I said, can I ask [00:22:00] you if I see you in a, in a setting, can I ask you how you identify? And he's like, well, I don't know. Like, who's, who's gonna be around where we're gonna be? How is that conversation? I said. That is too much. Right? And then we started talking about it as a group, right?

How do we, how do we know when we can approach somebody? How do we know when we can give some grace and ask some questions and things like that? And by the end of the conversation he said, you know what, just ask me. Oh, nice. He's like, I just want you to know. 'cause that was the other part of it, is like you want people to know how you identify and who you are and what you want them to know about you.

Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Do that, but you also wanna feel safe. Do that. Yeah. You wanna feel 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: safe, but how do you do that if, if it has to be a certain situation, all this kind of stuff. And then, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, you know what? I want you to know who I am, so I want you to ask me. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: So that was, that was a cool episode.

Wow. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That sounds [00:23:00] very cool. It, it's just, you know, we, we all, like we were saying, we all wanna feel safe and heard. Um, we wanna feel understood. And if you don't feel safe telling someone who you really are, how can you ever feel seen and heard and understood? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also I feel like, um, there's another part of the conversation here is that we give away our power way too easily.

Mm-hmm. So, I'll give you an example. I was out to dinner. I do these women in supply chain dinners when I travel. And there was a senior vice president next to me, and then there was me, and then there was a woman who co-founded this company and is like running this like multimillion dollar company. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: And she looked at both of us and she's like, you know, I feel intimidated by you. You're a senior vp. And, and she pointed to me and she's like, you have 50,000 followers on LinkedIn. [00:24:00] And I was like. I was like, do you mind if we break this down and talk about this for a second? 'cause I talk about this in the book too, Uhhuh.

And um, I was like, you know, why do you feel intimidated? And she said, the followers and because of the title and things like that. And I said, yeah. But part of the challenge with that is that when you say that, you put power behind it. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: If you were aware of it and you took that power off of it. We would actually all be much better off because there we wouldn't look at each other as different.

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Right. Or that you have more than, or you have more than Right. Or I have more than, 

Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. It's that imposter syndrome. We just don't give ourselves enough credit. We don't feel safe, we don't feel comfortable, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: but we give our power away. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Too, too easily. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Absolutely. Yeah. We and I, it's our nervous system's really trying to keep [00:25:00] us safe and small.

Yeah. If you could fully show up as yourself, you have something to say. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. It's also society too, though. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: So one of the things we ended up, this ended up being a conversation at the table when she said this, we, and I asked her, you know, 'cause you have to ask permission, right? Are you okay? Yeah. If I use this as an example.

Um, because I didn't wanna hurt her feelings, I didn't wanna put her on the spot or anything like that. Mm-hmm. And then the lady who's the senior vp, she actually had a position at a company as a senior vp, and then she went to VP at a different company. But the companies were so different that the actual level was the same.

The title was different Uhhuh, but the amount of people that reached out to her and said, how do you feel about being demoted? Gosh, but that is society. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Like that is the pressure from society going, wait a second, you [00:26:00] dropped the senior, so you must feel bad about yourself. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm. Would somebody ask that of a man if the same situation were true?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I, I don't know that I can't answer. Maybe they would. Maybe they won't. Wouldn't. Maybe it's a smaller group of people. I don't know. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: because like really if you drop the senior, like a senior VP versus vp, it doesn't matter whether you're a woman or a man, it still looks in society as demotion. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. We put so much weight on titles in the corporate world 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: and maybe, maybe you do.

For it to potentially work within an organization. But if we too, but too, if we put too much power into those titles and those labels, it actually affects our self worth and that's what we own. We have to protect that, not anybody else. So if somebody wants to call you a senior vp, so I went from a director of sales and marketing to a receptionist at a tennis club.[00:27:00] 

Within like eight months. 'cause nobody would hire me. After everything happened with my family business, nobody would hire me. And so I ended up, I was mopping floors. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Right? And so at one point I was like, I don't want anybody to see me doing this. What would they think? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah life.

Oh my goodness. Right. But then I got over it and I was like, wait a second. This is really the what I need to be able to build my business and get my business to where I want it to be. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: And so, but you have to work on yourself and protecting that sort of like self-worth bubble and being like, wait a second, what's the power that I'm putting on labels or titles?

What does that do for me? Sure. Out in society, I was director of sales and marketing and I went to receptionist of tennis club, and that might mean something to other people, but what does that mean to me? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. And how 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: am I gonna think about it and how am I gonna think about myself? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Yeah, I, I think [00:28:00] internally we have to shift our mindset somewhat too.

Like, you know, you do what you have to do and you know, in that situation, how do you flip your mindset to be like, yeah, I'm a receptionist and I am, I'm doing good work here. I'm helping a lot of people. I'm, I've got those. Prettiest floor in town. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I don't know about that. I'm not very good at mopping floors.

I tried, 

Penny Fitzgerald: you know, you, you do what you can and you, you do your best. And as long as you know in your heart of hearts that you're doing your best and that's, you know, this is what I've gotta do today, so, yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, yeah. So true. So true. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Been there. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Uh, yeah. And I think, I think a lot of people have, right? We just don't talk about Oh yeah.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Right. And there's so much shame around some of those things, but 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: that's a big word. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. How do you, how do you navigate that? [00:29:00] 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: How do I navigate what, 

Penny Fitzgerald: um, that word shame. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, I think it kind of goes hand in hand with self-worth. So I think it's really a journey, right? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Um, and I think that we can feel through it.

Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I don't 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: think it needs to define us. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Right? Right. So if it, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I think it comes and goes. Yeah, depending on the situation, depending on how we feel about ourselves that day, um, there's a lot of different factors when it comes to shame. I think those who are maybe a little bit more evolved or has done some internal work can get, can feel through it a lot faster and easier and can actually come and apologize.

And create the safe, the space to be able to muddle through whatever that shame looks like. Um, [00:30:00] if you can't get to that point, it's worth the, it's worth the work. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Right. Because then it's not attached to ego. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Right? Right. It all comes down to that, like getting outta yourself, getting outta your own head, getting outta that, that ego part.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Back to 

Penny Fitzgerald: soul. Wow. I, I imagine in your blended, um, conversations that you've had that there've been a lot of, there's been a lot of real and raw conversation around that. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: talk more about giving each other more grace.

Um, love that. But like the conversations really are authentic, like people are sharing personal stories and what they've been through. Um, I remember talking about diplomas and masters programs and you know.

What does that mean and does it actually mean what it's supposed to mean? And, you know, especially for inclusion in the workplace, [00:31:00] right? Mm. Mm-hmm. How are we including everybody? Somebody who has a master's and somebody does not. Um, so yeah. And then there was some, some conversations. Yeah, they've just been some really cool conversations about a lot of really tough subjects.

Yeah. But yeah, I don't think the word shame has come up. I think. I think we've talked in circles around it, but have haven't actually mentioned the word. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Well, that's good. I'm grateful to hear that that's not a focus anyway. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. No, it's really about sharing stories so that we can learn, yeah. What other people have been through and how they've got through it, or just seeing somebody else's perspective around a particular issue.

Penny Fitzgerald: I, in today's day and age, I'm just. Baffled by not wanting to have more diversity, more inclusion in the workplace. Um, we learn from each other and it's just important to lift [00:32:00] each other up and support each other.

We're, we're only as good as a society as our weakest member or our, um, you know, we just need to lift people up, I feel. And it sounds like that's what you're doing with your podcast. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I hope so. I hope so. I think, um, to be honest with you, every episode is more about the guests than it is the people who are listening because the guests at the end of the day, have learned from each other.

Mm-hmm. They've, they've learned a lot more about themselves. They've learned how to go back and maybe broach this particular topic with their teams. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's really interesting because usually, you know, the podcast is for the audience. It's, it's definitely for the audience. Um, but I also think that the guests get way more out of it.

Mm-hmm. By being there in that, in that timeframe, talking to each other, learning from each other. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's so authentic. Yeah, that's, you know, and I bet [00:33:00] that's more impactful for the audience because it's so, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: yeah. You 

Penny Fitzgerald: know, it's so much for the guests. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. 

Penny Fitzgerald: What are some more stories that you remember from it that were impactful for you or for the guests?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, yeah. If I think about the ethical AI episode that is coming out, I think it's coming out in November. Um, that one, uh, we did have a senior, uh, woman from a DP and she was talking about software like click clocking in and clocking out software. And it took them a really long time to figure out that software because of skin tone, and it's so interesting to listen to.

Some of the things that they have had to do from a technology perspective. So it's all about protection, right? Mm-hmm. Because ethical AI [00:34:00] is around protection. It's also around using it properly, but it's also about inclusion. How are we using ai? To really bring about inclusion, and that's where the facial recognition software came into play for a DP.

And so she talks about this story, um, about how that came to be and what that looked like, and how many iterations they had to go through to make sure that it was inclusive of everybody. So that's, that's one of 'em. I think the other one was on the privilege episode that we just put out this month. And, um, there was sort of this light bulb moment.

Where we were talking about, uh, privilege and privilege, um, is a very, very interesting topic. A lot of times it is specifically pointed towards a certain demographic. Um, and when we got into the conversation and we were talking about it, it really [00:35:00] came to be that privilege changes depending on who you are and what room you're in.

So who are you in that moment, in that room means that you could actually have privilege at different ti or not have privilege at different times during the day. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Wow. Right. Uhhuh. A lot of times privilege is painted as this one broad stroke uhhuh, when actually there's so many different dimensions to that particular conversation.

Penny Fitzgerald: I never thought of it that way. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I know I didn't think about it either. That's why the light bulb moment and it was for everybody on the call. Like it wasn't just for Yeah, it wasn't just for me. It was sort of everybody on that call going, wait a second, you have a point there.

but like, uh, yeah, it was, it was really a light bulb moment for everybody. 

Penny Fitzgerald: It kind of comes down to that power question again, right? Like your self power, how much power are you [00:36:00] giving away? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: How much power are you keeping? How much power are you? How much power are you giving away? And how much power are you giving to ego? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Right? Right. And in that particular setting, what are other people doing with your power?

Like are they trying to take it from you? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Do you have to let that happen? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Recognizing in that moment that you have some sort of privilege 

Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: No matter who you are and what you do, and but in that moment you have more privilege than somebody else. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And what are you gonna do with it? Yeah. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: What are you gonna do with it?

Right. How are we gonna recognize it? It can go a couple of different ways. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Yeah. How are we gonna support others with that? It's use the power for good, right? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Mm-hmm. And a lot of times with the privilege, it's, we're looking at it externally. We wanna get it from somebody externally, right? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: But then if we're [00:37:00] able to, um, recognize it within ourselves within a certain setting.

Then we be just become that much more aware of it. And that's going for anybody who has privilege, no matter where you are and who you are throughout your day, your week, the rooms that you're in, because I think that that brings together a more elevated conversation around it and can bring more awareness and a heightened responsibility for those in privilege in that moment to recognize it and talk about it.

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, that's a huge responsibility. 

Wow. Especially, you know, when you're working with a team. Mm-hmm. I can see where that would be very important to be understanding your level of privilege in that moment. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. But also, um, being able to ask questions. Like, part of all of this is that nobody really knows all of the answers.

None of us know the perfect way [00:38:00] to ask or the perfect way to act. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: You know, and we get caught up in, well, there's this perfect way of doing everything and there, there really isn't. Yeah. Everybody's different. Everybody's gonna do it in a different way. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. There's a certain level of vulnerability to that.

Feel like in, you know, in, in showing that, hey, I don't know what I'm supposed to say here or how I'm supposed to act, but asking questions to kind of learn and grow. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. I had, um, actually one of my other episodes, um, my guest called me out on something. and they did it nicely and it was fine, and they actually had asked me to take it out of the episode and I said, absolutely not.

Penny Fitzgerald: Like this, that's gold. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: This is a way for me to be able to show that even though I host this, this podcast, I don't know everything about inclusion in the [00:39:00] workplace. Mm-hmm. I'm setting the stage, creating the safe space, allowing for people to have a moment and a platform to be able to talk about some of the hard things that they want to talk about.

And so it doesn't mean that I know everything. And so I also have to showcase in that moment what it's like to be the host that's being called out on using a particular word that I shouldn't have used, and me asking the questions as to, oh, wait a second. Well, I thought that this actually meant this. Why is this a bad word?

Or How can I not use this in this context, or whatever. And we all talked it through and they were like. No, you really shouldn't use it. Da da da. And they were like, you're gonna cut this out of the episode. And I said, no. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, because this is how, it's a teaching moment, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: learn. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. Mm-hmm. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow.

That's powerful. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, it's fun. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. That sounds like a blast. Just the, it just, I love having conversations like that, that are just meaningful and deep and you grow from them. [00:40:00] 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I grow from it every time. I'm very lucky. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So. Cool. Yeah. Can I switch gears on you? Sure. Okay. So at the end of every episode, I love to ask my guests about their favorite cocktail or class of wine.

Do you have a favorite? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, so I really like vodka and sparkling water. I love that too. I also like a really good, spicy, skinny margarita. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Ooh, spicy with jalapeno. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yes. Although sometimes they can make it too spicy and then I, I regret my decisions, but, 

Penny Fitzgerald: oh, well. That's okay. You can have another one and tone it down.

Right. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Just give me some water. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Or a little cheese dip. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yes. Well, if I wasn't dairy free, maybe. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that. Yeah. You know, it's okay. We can find something for [00:41:00] you. Can, uh, do you remember a, um, a fun memory shared with friends over a margarita? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Um, actually my cousin just got married on Friday.

I know this is coming out in a little bit. Nice. But on 10 10 and um, yeah, we were at a Mexican restaurant to celebrate them. Aw. And I had a spicy skinny margarita and 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, nice fun. That's so cool. It's always great to celebrate. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yes. They were gonna celebrate and I forced them to.

You 

Penny Fitzgerald: can celebrate that. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I know they were very happy that they did, so that's 

Penny Fitzgerald: good. Oh, nice, nice. So what, what other things do you like to do for fun? I mean, you are busy, busy, busy with your, with your work and your charity charitable events and all of that, but do you have some activities you like to do just for hobbies and fun?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yes. So, um, I like to play, [00:42:00] I like to play softball. I've been playing softball for a very long time. Oh. Um, but since moving I have to play a different kind of softball, so I'm just sort of getting used to that. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. But like where did you move from? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Uh, Toronto. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, so yeah, I like to play softball.

I like to go read my book at the beach or the lagoon that we have in our area. Mm-hmm. Which is, which is a lot of fun. I like to go for a golf cart ride now that I have a golf cart. It's a thing to do here. Right. Um, and my fur babies walking there. Oh. What do you have? What do you have for fur babies? I have a, have a 'Nese and an Aussie poo.

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, so cute. Oh, they're, and they've been very well behaved. They have not, I, they have not made themselves known 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Well, so I do have doors that close and my husband's dealing with them while I am recording. He knows the hours that I'm recording, and so, oh, that's fun. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I've had so [00:43:00] many guest appearances by four-legged, uh, babies.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah. If they were here, they usually love sleeping in my office, but they are, uh, they're somewhere. I think I can see her in a bed, her bed right now. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So. Nice. Well, is there anything that I have not asked you that you would love to share with my audience? 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I would really just love to share about the book, if you don't mind.

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, please. Yes, please do. Yeah, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: the title of it. Of the book is I Buried Her in a French Press, a memoir about finding my voice and the power of being heard, and I don't, do you mind if I run out and grab a copy I can show? No, please 

Penny Fitzgerald: do. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Yeah, please do.

Okay, sohere it's, oh, 

Penny Fitzgerald: I love it. Yeah, 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: that was my first book. Um, and so like I said, it's about, uh, my journey with self-worth based on my life experiences. And so I share quite a few of the stories [00:44:00] that we talked about today. I share a lot more of the stories, um, that I didn't share today, including the reason why it's called I Buried her in a French press because I did bury my step-grandmother in a French press.

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. We need to know what's going on there. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: I know it's a, it's a whole chapter, I promise. I promise. Oh my gosh. It's a good story. But, um, yeah, it comes out October 21st. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm sure on Amazon. I will, I will include that link in the show notes so people can find you that, and links to your podcasts and LinkedIn and all the things.

Congratulations on the book. That's amazing. 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: Thank you. Thank you. I'm super excited. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, and thank 

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey: you for having me on the show. This was awesome. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I've enjoyed getting to know you. It's been amazing. 

Have a great day. You too. Take care. Mm-hmm. Bye-bye. Bye. 

​ [00:45:00]