When Your BS Meter Gets Better With Age

There’s a moment many women reach—usually after a few decades of living—when things get clearer. The stories don’t quite add up anymore. The excuses land flat. And that inner voice gets a whole lot louder.

In this episode of Penny for Your Shots, I sit down with therapist Gina Haras for a thoughtful conversation about wisdom, discernment, and why our “BS meter” tends to get sharper with age. We explore how experience shapes clarity, why empathetic women often question themselves early on, and how growth allows us to trust what we feel instead of explaining it away.

This isn’t about labeling people or revisiting old drama. It’s about recognizing patterns, honoring intuition, and leaning into the wisdom you’ve earned.

In this conversation, we talk about:

• Why midlife brings clearer boundaries and stronger discernment
• The difference between love, attachment, and emotional confusion
• How self-trust develops through lived experience
• Why healing leads to better choices—not bitterness
• Learning to listen to your body and intuition without second-guessing

About Gina:
Gina Haras is a licensed therapist and founder of Luna Clinic. She works with women around the world through online sessions, helping them gain clarity, confidence, and healthier relationship patterns.

You can connect with Gina on LinkedIn here:
 https://www.linkedin.com/in/gina-haras-5b8707229/
https://lunaclinicgroup.com/

If you’ve ever thought, “I see things so differently now,” this episode will feel like a knowing nod—and a reminder that your clarity didn’t happen by accident.

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Transcript

When Your BS Meter Gets Better With Age

[00:00:00] Some relationships don't fall apart in obvious ways. From the outside, they can look fine, even perfect, but inside something feels off and you can't quite put your finger on why. Today's conversation with therapist, Gina Harris helps name what so many women experience but struggle to explain. We talk about narcissistic abuse.

Trauma bonding and why strong, empathetic women so often end up [00:01:00] questioning themselves instead of the relationship, and more importantly, how healing and clarity are always possible.Here is Gina Harris.

Gina Haras: Thank you so much, Penny. It's nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. I came across your, um, your podcast and I loved it and I've been listening to, to a few episodes. Thank you so much for listening. Of course, of course.

Penny. Yes. So, um, yeah, so I wanted to talk to you about maybe an idea. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, that's 

Gina Haras: great. Well, first let's back up just a second. 

Penny Fitzgerald: You are in Mexico City, right? I am, yes. I'm in Mexico City. That's wonderful. That's so exciting. Yes. Where are you? I'm in Sarasota, Florida. 

Gina Haras: Okay. Very 

Penny Fitzgerald: nice. 

Gina Haras: I love Florida. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh yeah, me too.

Yeah. Thank you. Tell us, tell us a little bit about what you do. 

Gina Haras: Yes, of course. So, um, I'm the owner of Luna Clinic and it's basically, uh, [00:02:00] like a therapy practice, but for women that have been through like narcissistic abuse pretty much.

Yes. So, um, narcissistic abuse is like a very, you know, booming subject. So, um, I decided to like open as. Space that was like mainly directed towards women that were experiencing that. And, uh, and yeah, like I have a, well, a team of other people here in Mexico City, um, working with these people and, um, and yeah, basically that's what I do.

Penny Fitzgerald: That's really interesting And yes,When I think about that, I, I feel like, wow, that there's a lot of pain behind that or a lot of experience behind that. Exactly what led you to do that? What led you to your practice? 

Gina Haras: Um, well I am, I'm a therapist and I have been, I had been working with people for a lot of years.

Um, but then, well, I personally went through that and I was just like, it's time to [00:03:00] like. You know, open. I feel like, I just felt like it was like my way of healing also in a way. And also I just, uh, started talking to my friends about it and a lot of them had gone through like similar experiences and yeah, I started like reading about it and, uh, then I decided to like get like an actual course on it.

So I started like studying more about it and all of that, like the neuropsychology behind that. And uh, and yeah, I decided that it was a good idea to focus like on that specifically. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Outta some personal pain. You wanted to help others. Yeah, exactly. Wow. So are, are you okay sharing what that means?

I mean, what is, yeah. What, for those who may not have experienced this or who may not know what it is, can you, um, tell us a little bit? Of course. 

Gina Haras: Yes. Definitely. So basically narcissistic abuse, well being a narcisstic abusive relationship is when. You create [00:04:00] this like trauma bond to someone. So instead of love, it kind of feels like love, but it's not love.

It's basically being with someone that is avoidant, that doesn't meet your needs, but it creates like this cycle of addiction where you can, um. Think that you're in love with someone, but in reality it's like addiction that you are in 

Penny Fitzgerald: really 

Gina Haras: because of this like validation need of, of like another person and like, maybe because you have like a childhood wound also of like abandonment.

So like you need someone to be with you. So yes, it's deep. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, it sounds like it. Mm-hmm. What, what would you, like, what kind of signs did you see or what, what. I guess defines the narcissistic behavior. Perfect. Yes. 

Gina Haras: So like, basically the signs are like there's, uh, covert narcissists and, uh, overt narcissism.

Hmm. So the overt narcissism is like [00:05:00] people that are very, um, you know, overly attentive, like those people are super, like charming. They seem like the perfect. Guy or girl also, it can also be with women. They just seem like amazing, perfect, super successful probably. But inside of the house, they are another person.

They are dismissive of, of people's feelings. They normally, um, well, yeah, they don't validate the other person. They create this feeling of like loneliness pretty much. Um, and then the covered ones, they are more like shy people. They're people that like, they seem like a lot, like more like shy, like good guy, you know?

And, uh, but those people have like, also like, kind of like, they call it like that dark. Uh, triad. So basically they have like these characteristics of being, um, not very sensitive to others, only care about like their needs living in like their own world. Um, so it's [00:06:00] different what you experience with each type of person.

So yeah, that's welcoming me. Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Uh, what makes it different? don't, we all kind of go through, um. Like moody periods or, you know, how do you define, like, or how do you distinguish between, oh, he's just having a bad day and wow, this guy has a problem.

I mean, where do you Yeah, 

Gina Haras: exactly. That's a really good question actually. So, well moody period. Yes. Obviously we all have our times where like we can be a little bit mean or rude or whatever from time to time. But I think like when, when it, when it is something, um, when it's very clear. It's when it becomes like a pattern, when it's like a daily life.

It's like a daily life thing or when like a relationship should be kind of like the, the waves of the ocean where things are. Yes, of course not everything is like steady and perfect, but it's also not like these like mountains, right? [00:07:00] Like we're up here and then we're down here. So I think that's like a good way to put it when like.

When you're experiencing like emotional abuse, like things can feel amazing or terrible. Not never like, kind of like in, in this like wave where like you can both like kind of manage that relationship. Interesting. So I think like that would be, 

Penny Fitzgerald: yes. Okay. Sounds like a lot of drama. A lot. Yes. It's a lot of drama.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So, um, so I may or may not have been married to one of those 

Gina Haras: Really? Oh my god. Years and years and years ago. Oh my God. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: But, um, yeah, it, it was on looking back that you saw, or that I saw the signs that, wow, we always did things that benefited him or that he needed. And it felt like this team effort in the moment, but it exactly it.

When I look back I was like, yeah, there was none of that. 

Gina Haras: No, no, exactly. [00:08:00] Yeah, exactly. It's like that if it's like super one sided where like the other person just wants to, exactly like you mentioned it, you just want things for the other person and you are like, you probably are very like empathetic and very kind and very nice.

And that's why, why try to be? Yes. So like some people, um, that's like, that's like their target person. Mm-hmm. That like narcissistic people, target people that are givers naturally. So you have the empath and you have the narcissist, and that's like a perfect match. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's really, um.

With experience. Yes. you read people, I think a lot better as you age and like looking at, um, like I can spot a liar now a mile away. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Is it, is it kind of a grooming process? Do you feel like when someone, uh, when couples meet. 

Gina Haras: Definitely, I think like there's like a face with narcissist that is like the [00:09:00] love bombing face.

Mm-hmm. So at the beginning it can be amazing and if you have like, maybe like a low self-esteem, even if you're like a super nice giving person, if you are like in a point of your life where you're not, where your self-esteem isn't like that good then. It becomes like, wow, like this person is doing everything for me at that beginning.

Because exactly like you said, it is a growing process. It's the love bombing and then devaluating. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. Wow. 

Gina Haras: Yes. 

Penny Fitzgerald: And, and a lot of lying and comes in too, right? A lot so gaslighting. 

Gina Haras: Mm-hmm. Definitely, definitely gaslighting a lot of like lies. Um, and they build themselves up to, up to be like the perfect person for anyone, not just for you.

Right. So, so, yes. I think like, it's like, um, like it's very important to like, notice these signs early so that people can leave 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Before 

Gina Haras: it gets too close. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Because it can be dangerous, right? If someone [00:10:00] suddenly just, you know, feels like they're losing control of a another person. Exactly, 

Gina Haras: exactly. It can definitely be dangerous.

And also, like there is also like, let's say, um, there's a lot of types of narcissism, but one, let's say it's malicious, right? So like the malicious narcissist is someone that can become aggressive physically and, uh, well obviously verbally, emotionally, et cetera. So like. There's also like kind of levels of narcissism.

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

Gina Haras: So yes, it can definitely become dangerous. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Can you, can you give us any specific examples of like what a narcissist might do or say, or have you, have you encountered? Yeah. 

Gina Haras: I have, well, actually, um, well, I can, I can tell you this because, well, one of my patients has a very, um, interesting story where she met a guy that was like the perfect guy.

He was, uh, super cute, responsible. Had an amazing family, apparently very good value. And also he [00:11:00] was insanely rich, you know, and he had this like super, like crazy lifestyle. Um, and what she was telling me is that at the beginning she told her parents like, this is a guy I am gonna marry. Right? Because, you know, like, this guy's perfect fairytale.

Exactly. Fairytale type of person. And then from time to time, she started discovering that this guy was like, um, mistreating other women, um, playing with her. He even tried to like choke one of his like ex-girlfriends. And these are people that had like a lot of power in the, uh, real estate industry. Hmm.

So that is like an example where like at the beginning everything looks like a fairytale, but if there's nothing wrong with someone, if you can't find any floss in someone, that's also a red flag. Yeah. No one's perfect. Right? Exactly. No one is perfect. So I think that's like a very good example of like, let's say an overt narcissist.

You know, that charming guy, handsome, super good family, [00:12:00] affluent, like everything in order, and then. Realizing that that person is not the person that he's intending to be. Like you said, with all lies, having like another life pretty much. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

Gina Haras: Yes. 

Penny Fitzgerald: How does a, how do you feel like that person became that way?

I mean, what caused that person to do those things? 

Gina Haras: Okay. Yeah, that's, that's a super good question. So normally narcissism is built when people have developmental issues, like from their parents. So normally when, like, if it's a guy, if their mom like, is very, like, they, they put them in in a pedestal, let's say.

They're like, oh my God, you're so amazing. You're so great. You know, like you have, you're the king of the world and of life. People start developing like this identity around it. They start like thinking, oh, maybe yes, I am this amazing person and I have nothing wrong with me. And so that is [00:13:00] one factor. Um, there's also another factor, which is like maybe having like an overly controlling mother also, if it's a man, it comes from the mother normally.

Penny Fitzgerald: Really 

Gina Haras: developmentally, yes. And also if the, if the mom is a narcissist, um, most likely she will have kids that a, a kid that is also a narcissist. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Mm-hmm. That's fascinating. Yes. I have a hard time. Yes. First of all, I can totally see it. I, I have, you know, I can witness that in, you know, people I've encountered through my life.

Yes. But at the same time, I have a hard time. Yes. Blaming a mom, you know? You know what I mean? I mean, because most of us do the very best that we can and yeah. I mean, we're How do 

Gina Haras: you juggle that? So basically, I wouldn't say like it's a hundred percent the mom's fault, obviously Uhhuh, but normally like, yes.

When, when, well, [00:14:00] when we are raising our kids on everything, like I think it's very important to also have like this sense of like, yes, build, build a healthy self-esteem in that children. You know? Mm-hmm. Build that healthy self-esteem, but also not build them up like in a way where like you are flawless and like, you know, like, I'm gonna, like you can do whatever you want with people.

Mm-hmm. Because that becomes, that's where it becomes like, kind of like I'm showing you that you can manipulate other people into believing that you are the best thing that walked in this earth. Yeah. Yeah, that's a whole different level. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's so obviously, yeah. As adults, you need to take responsibility of your own life and your own decisions for sure.

Mm-hmm. But it comes from developmental factors. It can also come from, from, let's say. Um, past experiences, like sometimes it's not necessarily in childhood experiences. Sometimes it's later in life where people, let's say if they've been rejected a lot, also [00:15:00] if they, if they experience like some kind of like rejection narcissism is a way of like protecting themselves against like that rejection 

Penny Fitzgerald: also, oh, like a false.

elevation of their own ego. 

Gina Haras: Exactly, exactly like that. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Fascinating. Yes. Wow. Mm-hmm. Okay. So if you were, um, yes. A person that's maybe single and dating, what are some of the signs that you should look for? 

Gina Haras: Well, I think some of the signs you should look for is, first of all, love bombing. So like the first thing is like, look for someone that is.

Naturally drawn to you, but not necessarily does this big, like huge elements of like, oh, I brought you like this 200 roses on the first date. Like Exactly, you said grooming. Grooming, right. Or like, I'm going to take you to Cabo next weekend after we've met two times. You know, things like that are clear [00:16:00] indicators of.

That's not necessarily the course of our relationship when things don't have its natural pace. I think that's like a very big red flag. Um, I also think when you start, well, as you said, lies, if you catch them on even like a small lie mm-hmm. I think at the early beginning, well lies are not really, I mean, they're not a good thing in a relationship, but less so at the beginning because.

You are getting, trying to like get to know this person. So if someone lies about even small things, if you catch them in a lie or two, I think like those are like clear indicators that something isn't. Right? Hmm. Um, obviously there's also, well, that DSM five, which is like the Manual of disorders, has like that criteria specifically for knowing who is a narcissist.

So yeah, I can tell you in a minute, but, but yes. Someone that doesn't have empathy. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, 

Gina Haras: a narcissist can't be. They can't be in your [00:17:00] shoes if you're suffering going through a hard time, and that person can't continue in a way.

Penny Fitzgerald: Really, they don't understand other people's suffering. Exactly. Is that always the case 

Gina Haras: with narcissism? Yes. Uhhuh. It's a, it's an indicator, yes. Okay. Yes. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's very interesting. Yeah. Are there other things that are always the case with Narcissist? 

Gina Haras: So lack of empathy is definitely one. It is, um, I think lies also are, are something to, to look out for and they follow the same pattern of, um.

Of love bombing and devaluation of the other person like that is also some something that always happens. So they also can make you feel like you're amazing. And if we have low self-esteem, you're like, okay, so then awesome. I have someone that actually thinks that I'm worth it. And if you don't think that you're worth it, then you will attract these kind of prisons.

Wow. Into your life. [00:18:00] Yes. Um, they also, so these people also think, as I told you, they, they dream of like success of like infinite success. They can, um, so like, let's say if they have like a good job, but they will tell you that they have the best job in the world, let's say. Um. They have, uh, this ose feeling, like you said, they, they are like, maybe like arrogant.

Um, and they, let's say they fan fantasize about having like success, power. Like they have this like Fanta idea of what their life is or should look like. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. So it sounds very much to me, like, um, yeah, we should really take care of being our best selves. Yeah. I mean, this is kind of a no-brainer, right?

But it's, it's easier to say than it is to actually do or be, you know, if you, if you are your very, very best self when you meet your forever [00:19:00] person, then you're not gonna be fooled by some of these things. 

Gina Haras: Exactly, exactly. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. How do you recommend that women, well, women especially, but anyone, um, prepare themselves to be the best selves.

Gina Haras: Um, well, I think like to be your best self, I think the most important thing is to be authentic, to really get to know yourself. Like to, to figure out what you like and what you don't like. To, um, work on yourself enough to have a, a healthy self-esteem. Also, to know how to receive from other people. Not only giving all that time, but also to receive.

And, um, I think also, obviously, definitely taking care of yourself, your body. My, uh, like a mind, body, soul, um mm-hmm. Restructuring, you know? Mm-hmm. So I think like that would be very important to always, um, be surrounded by people that, you know, have good intentions with you. And, uh, that make you feel safe.

So that body never lies. If someone isn't making [00:20:00] you feel safe, you will start feeling maybe a very, uh, fast heartbeat. You will start feeling like something isn't right. And sometimes it's good to listen to your intuition also. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm. Very much so. 

Gina Haras: Yes. So 

Penny Fitzgerald: true. Yes. Yeah. Well, and it, it feels very much like there's a cycle, like you're.

Like you were saying, the mother often, you know, praises the son to the point where it's nothing, nothing can be done wrong by this person, this little boy that grows up to be this person. And then it perpetuates itself, right? Because it's the cycle. Like it's what you learned as a kid and like maybe as a woman going into that thinking that, oh my gosh, he's like, he's got all these things going for him.

Look at how complimentary he is. Look at his great job and how all these things that are happening for him. And you fall into that. So you've been, you know, somewhere along the line, you know, raised in a way that makes you [00:21:00] more em empathetic and maybe not so aware of these things that could ha, that could cause a problem down the road.

So breaking out of that cycle just seems like such an important step for our children, for our next generations. And your, your clinic and y you and your therapists are. Trying to make a dent in that right. 

Gina Haras: Yes, yes. We're trying to, to change that in, in like the way that we experience relationships and also, like you said, making like women and men also because there's, it is not like an exception that only men are narcissists.

There's also a lot of women that have these narcissistic traits. Um, so yeah, like just mainly as you said, building, building their best self and building their self confidence to a point where they can be like picking healthy relationships. Picking healthy, healthy, uh, partners because also the empath, uh, also has like this unhealthy side where like [00:22:00] exactly they don't think they're enough.

Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So, mm-hmm. That's 

Gina Haras: what they need to be doing. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. And how do you work with people, especially women to, to feel more healthy and whole? 

Gina Haras: Well, um, we always talk about like their history, the, like, the root of their history, how their, how their childhood was, like, what their re, what relationship pattern they're following, what kind of wound they have.

Sometimes they have an abandonment wound, a betrayal wound, so we see. What kind of wound they have to work with that specifically. That is like the most important thing to like kind of heal their also inner child in order to make better decisions in their adult life. Mm-hmm. So I think that that is like where we start from that is like the starting point for us.

Penny Fitzgerald: When women come to you, are they in a state where they're, they've. Been with a narcissist or, I mean, how do you, what kind of people do you work with typically? 

Gina Haras: Yes. So normally I work with people that [00:23:00] have been with a narcissist or people that are in a narcissistic relationship and they can't leave because that's also very typical of like a narcissistic relationship.

Mm-hmm. So some women become, um, addicted to this person, and even though. Mentally, they know that it's not right for them. They struggle to emotionally leave because they've invested so much time, energy, love. Ah, there it is. So yes, I think, yes, exactly, exactly. So, so sometimes it's also that. It's like how do I leave that relationship when I love this person so much?

And we have some amazing moments. Um. And it's not easy. It's not easy to leave or just say like, oh, well just leave. No, it's a process and it's a grieving process also. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And once you have the strength to leave, then it's the rebuilding and trying to figure out what happened and how, you know, here's this [00:24:00] smart individual who chose that.

Gina Haras: And 

Penny Fitzgerald: stayed in that and kept choosing that. 

Gina Haras: Exactly. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. Takes a while. Takes a while to figure that all out. 

Gina Haras: I agree. I agree. And then it comes like with a lot of like self blame also. Like, why am I picking this or why am I doing this? But it's like, it's not about asking why, it's more about asking why do I, well, yes, why do I deserve to be with someone like that if I'm not, if I'm not that, if I have other traits that make me, you know, like someone that I can give someone that can, you know, be a good partner, but what am I lacking within myself that I'm choosing this?

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Wow. 

Gina Haras: Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I wish I would've met you like 30 years ago. 

Gina Haras: Oh, me 

Penny Fitzgerald: too. 

Gina Haras: Me too. Me too. I was, uh, I was a baby 30 years ago, but 

Penny Fitzgerald: I was not. 

Gina Haras: Yes. 

Penny Fitzgerald: But yeah, I, yeah, I had to go through the experience, [00:25:00] I think, and, you know, figure it all out. And I did, thankfully. I'm like, good. A very wonderful relationship. Now, my husband, we've been married for 20 years and he's amazing.

But yeah, I went through some things. 

Gina Haras: Oh, I'm sorry, but I'm glad that you're married and happy now. Yeah, thank you. Yes. Well, 

Penny Fitzgerald: how interesting that we connected. Yes. Very. There's reason for everything. 

Gina Haras: Yes, there is. I agree. Yeah. I so agree. Yes. Oh my gosh. 

Penny Fitzgerald: What? What other things do you want us to know about what you do?

Gina Haras: Um, well, I think that there, I think that an important thing is that there is always a path to healing. Like, it's never like just a lot of people choose like the path of staying there or being like, well, I am already, I had a patient and she was just like, I'm already. 60 years old, what am I gonna do? I have no financial independence.

I don't love this person and I know that they've been treating me like this, but I don't know what to do. [00:26:00] And like my, like the best thing I can say is like, there's always a way out. No matter what age you're at or what stage in your life you're at, if you have kids or not with this person, like, it's always a good time to like restart and reset your life whenever you want to.

So, 

Penny Fitzgerald: well, and that's something that I, um, coach my clients on too, is it's never too late. You know, it's never too late to start that thing that's been, you know, chirping at you or that, that thing that you want to do, that passion you want to follow. And by the same token, it's not too late to fix what is hurt.

You know, fix what's broken and to feel whole. Exactly. I mean, you deserve that. 

Gina Haras: Exactly. I agree. I agree. So I think like the best thing you can do is that, and uh, and also, well, yes, I have, I have right now about five years doing this, which is like, like a good amount of time. And I would like to, you know, like get my business outside of Mexico City only.

You know, we do online [00:27:00] consultations too, but I would like for more people to like come to us to. You know that people are struggling with this to come to us and like know that there is like a clear path that they can follow. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's amazing. So, um, how would you work with someone who's not in Mexico City?

Gina Haras: Yes. So basically, um, online with like via meet, meet sessions and we would like send like the workbook through. Like email or WhatsApp or something like that. Okay. I think it does work exactly like the same way. And we also have like my therapist also speak like English and I think it would be easy to, to do, 

Penny Fitzgerald: you could reach a lot of people.

Gina Haras: Yes, exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's. That's a really, you just feel like that's so important for people to know that there is somewhere that you can go for help and, you know, to get clarity and work through some things. [00:28:00] 

Gina Haras: Mm-hmm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So do you offer a, a program or is it, is it therapy basically, or do you have like a class that you teach?

Gina Haras: Well, so it's like a mix, I would say. Okay. It's a program, it's like a program to like, um, follow through that is based on cognitive behavioral therapy. So it does have like a scientific background because that's what, that's what I like, you know, I think like sometimes you can't just say like, oh, we're gonna just do that and not, not have like a, a, like a, a base, like a line base.

So we, we do have like a strict program that we follow. Um, but we are also flexible with the story behind it because everyone has their unique story. So I do follow a program, but at the same time we have this flexibility of knowing where that one comes from, and also talk about like past experiences. So I follow mainly CBT with a little bit of like a psychodynamic perspective.

Of the past of that person. Okay. CCBT. Yes. Cognitive behavioral therapist. Oh, 

Penny Fitzgerald: thank you. Yes. Sorry. [00:29:00] 

Gina Haras: No worries. No worries. No, sorry. Yes. So the CBT uh, program is the one that is like, like to leave, leave the, I have two programs. One to leave the narcissistic relationship and one to heal from the narcissistic mm-hmm.

Relationship. So those are that two. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yes. Very necessary to heal from it so you don't do it again. 

Gina Haras: Exactly. Exactly. Because a lot of people do it again, fall into the same pattern if they haven't healed, so Yes. Right, 

Penny Fitzgerald: right. You only, um, you get out what you put. You know, or you get back what you put into it in, into any relationship or into anything that you do.

Mm-hmm. That's another thing that I talk about in with my clients, is that your business only grows as fast as you do. So it's the, it's kind of the same concept where, you know, you're, if you're not healed from the past relationship, you're not going to go into the next one with a healthy out outlook. 

Gina Haras: No.

Exactly, [00:30:00] exactly. That's why like I, I am a firm believer that if you leave a relationship, it doesn't matter if it was healthy or unhealthy, but there is like a time that you have to set for yourself. You can't go into another relationship because you will bring out that problems that you had in your last one probably.

Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. Yeah. And attracts the wrong person. Right, 

Gina Haras: exactly. Yeah. And it does attract the wrong person because if you are not healed, you attract someone that is also not healed. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. So true. 

Gina Haras: Yes, I think so. I think so. So yes. And also like, I think like personally, I wanted to do this because it was my way of healing through it in a way.

And, uh, yeah, and it's been, it's been for me, like life changing to be honest. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I'm sure. Yes. And that just, I, I feel like a lot of us get into our line of work based on healing something from our own past, [00:31:00] and it's that personal story, that connection that we can offer. It's so, it makes it real. That's what makes, that gives us the passion to help others because we've been through it and we know what it's like on the other side.

Gina Haras: Exactly. I agree. I agree. If you've been through it, then it's easier for you to like empathize with other people, 

Penny Fitzgerald: so. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly like that. If you're not a narcissist. 

Gina Haras: Exactly. You're not a narcissist. Exactly. If you're not a narcissist. That's funny. Yes. Um, so yeah, I think, uh, I think that's, that's, uh, that's all on my side.

I think that, yeah. I told you basically all of it. Well, very 

Penny Fitzgerald: good. Yeah. Um, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to share? Um, I don't think so. Okay. How can people find you? 

Gina Haras: Um, so I have a. Well, I'm on Red, which is like a [00:32:00] therapist website. Okay. I'm there. So yes, and I have my company webpage also, so.

Okay. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. Can you email those to me? Yeah, and I will make sure to put those in the show notes and let people know how to get to you and stuff. 

Gina Haras: Definitely, definitely. Awesome. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Thank you. Perfect. 

Gina Haras: Of course. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Um, yes. Okay. Can I switch gears on you a little bit? Yes, definitely. Please do. Okay, cool. Yeah, because, oh, so you've been listening to my podcast, so you know that at the end of every episode I love to ask my guests.

Um, what's your favorite cocktail or glass of wine? 

Gina Haras: A spritz. Ail. Spritz. I love AAL Spritz. I don't know why. It's always been my favorites. Yeah, I 

Penny Fitzgerald: love that. Especially in your hot climate. It's just so refreshing. I know, 

Gina Haras: I know. Penny, 

Penny Fitzgerald: yours. I, I, that ranks right up there, especially on a hot day. A all spritz Depends on, yeah.

It depends on my mood. It depends on the day, the weather. Yes. All the things, but that, that ranks right up [00:33:00] there. I love a, a good dirty martini. 

Gina Haras: Mm. 

Penny Fitzgerald: That's kind of a Christmas thing for me. 

Gina Haras: It's almost Christmas. I know. Pretty soon it'll be getting 

Penny Fitzgerald: chillier and that'll, that'll I'll pop out the gin and vodka and make a, yeah.

Okay. So I, so weird. My husband and I love, um, dirty Martinis, but he likes his gin. I like mine vodka. 

Gina Haras: Okay. 

Penny Fitzgerald: So we kind of mix 'em up a little bit. So I'll have like two thirds. Vodka and just a splash of gin. And he'll have the other way around. He'll have more gin and just a little bit of vodka and 

Gina Haras: Nice 

Penny Fitzgerald: picky.

Gina Haras: No, that's nice. That's so good. That's really good. Yeah, I love, I love apple spritz. Since like college, I've been drinking Apple 

Penny Fitzgerald: Spritz. Yes. Oh, they're so nice though. Just, yeah. So what's a favorite memory sharing? Apple Oral Spritz. 

Gina Haras: Um, well, I remember when I, I studied abroad in London for a base. And I went [00:34:00] with my, I have like four best friends that I made there.

And I remember we did like this, like exhausting hike. And after that hike we just like, we were just super tired and I was like, I just, I don't want water. Like I need a drink from the exhaustion that I was, you know, going through. So I think that would be one of my favorite memories. Yeah. Yeah. And to celebrate making it.

Exactly. Celebrate making it and, and to Exactly, just to, to be relaxed. After the, the hike, where was the hike? It was in, um, Winchester, very close to London. Okay. We went to Winchester, that is like a small town outside of London. Okay. Yeah. So we hiked up like a mountain, which was like, I don't know, we took like maybe seven, eight hours hiking.

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my gosh. You earned that a lot. 

Gina Haras: It was a lot, I think. I think. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my gosh. 

Gina Haras: Yes. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's fun though. Yeah. And your college buddies, I mean, there's nothing like your friends from college. [00:35:00] Yes. 

Gina Haras: I love them. I, I love them. I still like keeping in touch with 'em all the time, so, yes. Uhhuh. Yes. Very 

Penny Fitzgerald: cool. 

Gina Haras: Yeah.

Penny Fitzgerald: Is there anything else? I, I feel like I am forgetting to ask you something and I just don't know what it is. 

Gina Haras: Let me think. Um. I don't know. I don't think so. Yes. This has been 

Penny Fitzgerald: very fascinating. 

Gina Haras: Thank you. Same with you. And how did you start the podcast? I was gonna ask you. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Oh yeah, I, um, I started it a couple years ago.

Mm-hmm. Um, when I wanted to, um, almost exactly two years ago. Yeah. I wanted to, um, well, at the time I was doing wine tastings. Okay. And I was wanting to meet more people that loved wine and share a little bit about what I know and kind of have fun with it, you know, a little bit. Yes. And get, get to know some, and I wanted to tell women's stories too, 

Gina Haras: of course.

Penny Fitzgerald: And then. Um, that later that year, like within a, [00:36:00] another about a month, the company that I was working for doing the wine tastings folded, they changed the business model and then went outta business. So I thought, oh my gosh, I, you know, have this podcast. Yes, of course. So it's been a great way to kind of meet women and tell their stories.

And from that I've taken like the wine business and done, um, I have a wine retreat now called Wine Camp. Wow. So fun. That's awesome. Yeah. And I coach women. I, um, coach women ba you know, the, the, um, job that I had before with the wine company. I had a team of women working under me that were, you know, that I would help get 'em started and create their goals and help them move forward.

Gina Haras: That's awesome. 

Penny Fitzgerald: And I wanted to keep doing that. So, so that's kind of how the, what the podcast has led to. 

Gina Haras: Yes. That's awesome, Penny. That's so nice. Yeah. Thank you. And the wine camp, where is it? 

Penny Fitzgerald: Next year is gonna be in, um, the Finger Lakes region of New York. [00:37:00] Wow. Yeah. Upstate New York. Yeah, up in the west, western part of New York with the um, it's big Riesling country.

Gina Haras: Yes. Riesling 

Penny Fitzgerald: and Cab Franc. Um, but yeah, I'm really excited to share that experience with wonderful women. 

Gina Haras: Of course. Yeah. That's awesome. That's really, really cool. I'm glad. Yeah. Yeah. 

Penny Fitzgerald: I'm so glad we connected. 

Gina Haras: Me too. Me too, Penny. Very happy. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Thank you. 

Gina Haras: Thank you so much for, for the opportunity. 

Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, absolutely. 

Gina Haras: have a great rest of your day. You too. Have a great day and I will um, see you soon. Okay. Take care. Bye. You 

too. Bye. 

​[00:38:00]