Trust Your Gut: Danielle Frank on Reinvention & Joy

What if the thing you're supposed to do next doesn't make sense to anyone but you?

Danielle Frank has built a fascinating career that took her from Hollywood publicity to the luxury wine and spirits industry, where she's spent more than two decades representing some of the world's most iconic brands. Along the way, she's made some bold decisions, including ending relationships that no longer fit, walking away from toxic work environments, and finally publishing a book she wrote 14 years earlier.

In this conversation, Danielle shares why trusting your gut is often the first step toward finding the life you're actually meant to live.

You'll hear:

 • How Danielle went from Hollywood to the world of champagne
 • Why she quit a toxic job without having a backup plan
 • The difference between intuition and impulsiveness
 • How confidence is built through action, not certainty
 • The story behind A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting
• Why it's never too late to pursue a dream you've put on hold
• The importance of becoming your own hype woman

This episode is for any woman standing at a crossroads and wondering whether she should take the leap.

Connect with Danielle:

Website: www.daniellefrankauthor.com

Instagram: @createagreatstory

LinkedIn: Danielle Frank

Email: danielle@daniellefrankauthor.net

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Transcript

Trust Your Gut: Danielle Frank on Reinvention & Joy
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​[00:00:00] 

[00:00:33] Penny Fitzgerald: This week's guest is Danielle Frank, and oh my gosh, you're gonna love this conversation, especially if you believe bubbles are not just for celebrations. Um, duh, you're my people, so of course you know that bubbles are for any time. Danielle started her career in Hollywood in publicity before making a major pivot into the world of wine and spirits, where she spent more than two decades representing some truly iconic brands.

She's [00:01:00] also the author of A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting, which is every bit as clever and playful as it sounds. In this conversation, we talk about trusting your gut, walking away from paths that no longer fit, finding joy in the unexpected, and why it's never too late to try something new, to write the book, take the trip, or become your own hype woman.

So grab a glass of something bubbly. Here is Danielle Frank 

[00:01:28] Penny Fitzgerald: Hi, Danielle. 

It's great to meet you. 

[00:01:32] Danielle Frank: You as well. Thanks for having me on. It's gonna be fun. 

[00:01:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Absolutely. Yeah, I think we're very much aligned. 

So tell, tell us a little bit about you. Give us your name, um, where you're from, what you do, and what lights you up. 

[00:01:44] Danielle Frank: Um, I, my name is Danielle Frank. I, um, am somebody who has lived a life of many paths and journeys and pivots. After launching my career in Hollywood publicity at Miramax [00:02:00] Films, I decided to trade red carpets for red wine, and I made the leap-

into the luxury world of wine and spirits, where I've spent more than two decades. So spoiler alert, I'm over 21. Um, so I've been working, I was at Bacardi USA for 10 years. Um, and now I'm at Moet Hennessy. I've been there and celebrating this month 12 years representing such iconic luxury brands as Dom Perignon, Veuve Clicquot, Moet & Chandon, Belvedere.

Um, and, you know, I, I'm somebody who's a firm believer that life's most rewarding opportunities often come from the unexpected turns. I've had many pivots in my life, from moving from New York to LA, um, you know, giving up that Hollywood job to go into wine and spirits, and then breaking off an engagement is- engagement as well.

So I really- Wow ... love, um, talking to, you know, podcasting guests really about embracing life [00:03:00] pivots and how it can lead you onto a path that maybe you were meant to be on all along. And, and one of those paths that I took was, um, in last year, at the end of last year, I finally released a book, um, that I had been working, that I wrote 14 years ago called A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting, which is a-

a humorous take. It's a, it's written like a children's book. It rhymes. Um, but it's clearly made for adults as it parallels raising your kids all to, uh, wine terminology. 

[00:03:31] Penny Fitzgerald: I love it. That's so fun. Well, first of all, congratulations on being in a really super fun industry, and for working for amazing brands.

And, um, gosh, you're in the bubble world, which is my favorite. 

[00:03:45] Danielle Frank: Yes. Everybody should enjoy bubbles every day. Right? It's not just for celebration. Bubbles are- Exactly ... meant to be enjoyed with everything. 

[00:03:54] Penny Fitzgerald: I love that. So how did you, how did you make that pivot? How did you go from [00:04:00] Hollywood to wine and spirits?

[00:04:02] Danielle Frank: So I, um, as I said, you know, in my 20s, like, it was great. I'm from New York. I was living in New York City working for Miramax Films and when it was at its heyday, and, you know, doing international PR, so traveling to the Cannes Film Festival, Venice Film Festival. Oh, 

[00:04:18] Penny Fitzgerald: wow. 

[00:04:18] Danielle Frank: You know, living the life. Um, but I just, uh, you know, I was traveling to LA a lot, and I just always had this, um, itch to move to LA, and I, once I got it in my head, um...

You know, all my friends in New York, it's, you know, a very East Coast thing too or, you know, certain parts of where you grow up, um, it's, it's the, the idea that, oh, it's, you know, you're nearing 30, have to be married by this age, have kids at this age. Oh, geez. So a lot of my friends were, you know, starting to get married and go down that path, and I was dating somebody, and I thought I was there, and then I sort of just had this, like, you know, I was, like, traveling the world with Miramax.

I was like, "Wait, I'm not done f- with this yet. I'm not [00:05:00] ready to be a mom yet. There's a lot I still wanna do before I get married, before I have kids." And one of those was moving to LA. So, you know, I had it in my head I was moving, and I just, um, I, I, I broke off, broke off with my boyfriend and, um, s- you know, uh, set my path forward.

Um, at the time there were no studio jobs, and, um, one of the PR agencies that represented the talent, they were looking for somebody, and I kinda just knew in my head, I'm like, "Oh, I really don't wanna be a personal publicist." No disrespect to those that do it. I just didn't think that was my journey in the entertainment world.

Um, but they hired me, it got me to LA. And on day one, you know, this agency that I worked for unfortunately was a very toxic environment. I- Mm ... day one I walked in and, like, three of the publicists were in their office crying, and I was like- 

[00:05:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, God ... "

[00:05:57] Danielle Frank: What did I get myself into?" I know. [00:06:00] Mm. And, you know, I was there three months, and I just, I, it, it wasn't for me, and like I said, it was a very toxic environment.

I mean, there were days... Look, when I was at Miramax, you know, over six years, there wasn't... Of course in my 20s, I, maybe I went out the night before. There was, there were certainly days that I was like, "Ugh, don't wanna go to work." But there was never those days like, "Oh, I don't wanna go to work," I had that pit in my stomach of anxiety.

Mm-hmm, yeah. Um, but when I was working at this PR agency, I had many mornings like that, and I was like, "That's no way to live." Like, we spend most of our time, half of our lives at work. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, it shouldn't be that way. And so I quit without having another job, which is very unlike me. I'm very type A.

But I just had that feeling like, "I don't want this pit in my stomach, this ulcer-inducing anxiety," and I quit, and I just... You know, I'm sure some of that comes with naivety, right? It's like my late 20s, and, "Oh, you know, I'll find something." [00:07:00] And, you know, I didn't have a mortgage. I didn't have, I didn't even have a pet at that time that relied on me, so.

You know, it's like, "I'll just figure it out." And, uh, my sister worked for an agency that worked for Bacardi, um, on the East- Mm ... Coast, and she loved it. And she said they were hiring, and it was, it was a big step back. It was a very elementary job, um, or entry-level job. You know, big cut, a big step back pay-wise.

But I was like, "Oh, you work from home. You get a car allowance, expense account. Great. This sounds great," until I figure out what it is what I wanna do. 

[00:07:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:34] Danielle Frank: And yeah, 10 years later, you know, I worked my way up to- I love it ... Bacardi. And- Mm-hmm ... yeah, as you say, it's a fabulous industry. It really is. Mm-hmm.

And when you get to represent amazing brands, you know, shepherd these brands that have such history, that evoke, you know- Mm-hmm ... such emotions and feelings and excitement out of people, um, it's, it's, it's a wonderful thing. Yeah. 

[00:07:58] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Well, [00:08:00] and you mentioned naivety, or being naive through quitting your job without having something else.

Is it, is that what it was, or was it intuition? You know, because something always, you know, a bad circumstance or our gut, it just tells us, it leads us towards something bigger and better. We may not know what that is yet- But so many of us stay in those toxic corporate roles and just wither into nothing.

[00:08:27] Danielle Frank: Yeah, no, I, I, I think that's a fair point. It's, it's intuition. It's also confidence in yourself, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:34] Danielle Frank: Like, I, you know, I, I, I, I broke off of, with my boy- I'd broken up with my boyfriend when everyone was getting married because I knew I didn't wanna go that traditional path. I picked up and moved from New York to LA.

So all these things are starting to, you know, build up your, your armory of like, you know, your arsenal of, you know, your belief in yourself and your confidence. Mm-hmm. So, you know, yes, some of it may be a [00:09:00] little naivety, but also a lot of confidence and belief that, um, I stepped off many paths before. I always say- Mm-hmm

I don't believe that there's one yellow brick road- Right ... to Oz. There's lots of paths along the way. Yeah. And, you know, each time you step off one path and you get on another and you, you know, embrace it and propel yourself forward and you see that maybe that was the path you were meant to be on, it gives you the confidence to keep going at it, to keep knowing that you can find your new path every time you step off one.

[00:09:30] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and knowing, um, what your body was telling you. Your body was showing you the signs that this is stressful, this is not right, and you- Yeah ... take, you took that leap. That's, that's amazing, and congratulations for doing that, for listening to that- Oh, thank you ... still, small voice. 

[00:09:46] Danielle Frank: Yeah, you know, I mean, you just, you have to realize that confidence doesn't, doesn't come from- falling or what you feel is failing, but I call it falling Mm-hmm You know, it comes from knowing you can stand back up and, and go again.

You know? Mm-hmm. Propel yourself forward. [00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And what you make of it. It's just, um, you know, it may not be the path that you expected or that you hope for, but somewhere along the line things start to fall into place, and that confidence and that knowing comes from taking that step. 

[00:10:15] Danielle Frank: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, the, the important thing is about, um, taking the lesson forward, right?

Taking what you learned from it. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, instead of getting lost in the messy middle of, oh, what didn't happen, it's looking at, okay, what's going to happen now? What, what, what's the excitement? What's the story I'm gonna build on this next path? 

[00:10:36] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. So what are you doing now? What... Are, are you, um, touring a lot?

Are you going on 

[00:10:43] Danielle Frank: a lot of trips? So I, um, yeah, so I, so I work, you know, I still have my day job with Moet Hennessy. They pay the bills. Um, so that's priority number one, and it's, it's a great priority. As I said, I, I'm celebrating 12 years with them. I hope to retire with them. It's a fantastic company- Nice

with amazing [00:11:00] brands. Um, but I do get to travel a lot with work. Um, my, my clients, my customers are national base, so a lot of travel. Um, and then, yeah, on, on the side I'm promoting, you know, my book and doing this big PR push by myself, which has just been so fun. I mean, especially I, I've been doing the podcast circuit, which I love.

I love- Um, you know, a- a- as a listener, I love listening to podcasts, right? Mm-hmm. Instagram is just a static post of everything's so great. It's like the podcast- ... it's just real organic conversations, hearing about people's paths, hearing about their journeys, hearing about the messy middle and how they got through it.

And, um, so I l- I love that. Um, so I'm, I'm promoting the book, trying to get it out there, uh- Mm-hmm ... having fun with it. Um, you know, that's, that's a second job in itself, trying to- Oh, for sure ... get your project out there. But it's, it's fun when it's something that you've invested your, your heart and soul into.

[00:11:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Right. Right. It's your baby. 

[00:11:56] Danielle Frank: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:11:58] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I've interviewed some other authors [00:12:00] too, and hands down everyone says the same thing, that writing the book was the easy part. It's the marketing- Yeah ... of it that is the tough part, and it's so, so time-consuming, takes a lot of energy. 

[00:12:14] Danielle Frank: Yeah, especially, I mean, I don't have a big publishing house behind me.

I, you know, I'm doing this on my own, all the hustle. So it's a lot, you know? It'd be great if I had a, you know, if any, if any publishers are out there, my next iteration of the book is, uh, i- is, is not published yet, so, um, it's for the taking. But yeah, it's, uh- ... it's a lot of work. But like I said, when it's, when it's your baby, um, it's also a lot of fun.

[00:12:37] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Absolutely. How did you come to the idea of your book? 

[00:12:41] Danielle Frank: So, um, a lot of pieces of the puzzle came together. So A Wine Lover's Guide to Parenting: The Fine Art of Wine, W-I-N-E, and Whine, W-H-I-N-E management. You know, I'm actually not a mom, funny enough. Um, but this all came about, um, [00:13:00] because, like I said, lots of pieces of the puzzle came together about 14 years ago.

I was a bonus mom for many years to my ex-fiance's kids. Um, I'm very engaged with my niece and nephews' lives, and I'm also Aunt Danielle to many, many friends' kids. So, you know, I've always had that nurturing side of me. Um, and, you know, my fiance, I realized he ultimately didn't want more kids, so I broke off the engagement because it was something that I really wanted for my future.

But when I broke it off, I realized, you know, just because the path to motherhood might not happen for me doesn't mean the nurturing goes away. And, um, you know, I still want a seat at the table to how kids are raised, you know? Uh, kids, um- You know, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of bullying and hate and, you know.

[00:13:49] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:49] Danielle Frank: Mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's, there's a lot of things that need to be course corrected, you know, and, uh- Yeah ... in kids' lives. And I always just felt like getting to kids at a young age. I mean, I started [00:14:00] working on a actual children's book series trying to teach kids, like, we're all the same and, um, you know, uh, try, trying to teach kids about, you know, not to, not to discriminate and, and all that.

But, you know, this idea came with, as I said, I broke off my engagement. I was watching my niece at the time, and although they were great kids, you know, they're adults now, but they were kids at the time. Although they were great kids, of course, every kid has the propensity to whine. And they were whining about something and I said, "Uh-uh, Aunt Danielle drinks wine.

She doesn't listen to whine." And the idea just all came together, right? As somebody- Uh-huh ... one who works in the wine industry, um, I love, you know, I, I just sort of saw the fun parallels like that, that just came like a, an aha moment. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, also as, you know, an auntie of unofficial and official, like I get the best seat in the house.

I get to witness the tantrum, the chaos, the triumphs, um, but with [00:15:00] a different perspective, you know? Sometimes I always say that, you know, I, I've heard parents trade war stories like battle-hardened soldiers, and sometimes when you're in the trenches- Yeah ... it's not as easy to see what's right in front of you.

It's not as easy to see, you know, to have a little light and humor in it. Um, so I just, you know, I s- I wanted to create this fun, um- uh, light way for, you know, parents to have a little light and levity and just, um, but they're, but they're poignant lessons. And I always say you don't need to be a parent to know good behavior in human beings, right?

Like, you want to teach your kids good manners and not to bully and all that. Um, so like I said, I just, I still wanted a seat at the table to how kids were raised well and, um- Yeah ... and then also somebody who works in the wine industry. I just love the idea of making wine- Yeah ... knowledge easy, fun-

accessible. So every time I use a wine definition, uh, wine term, I give the definition. Um, I give a basic understanding of how wine is made. So- 

[00:15:59] Penny Fitzgerald: Ah, 

[00:15:59] Danielle Frank: nice ... [00:16:00] um, you know, it really educates the reader on, on wine as well, so it's really fun- I love it ... 

[00:16:04] Penny Fitzgerald: and 

[00:16:04] Danielle Frank: approachable. 

[00:16:05] Penny Fitzgerald: That's great. You know, speaking as someone who also has not given birth physically, but f- as women, we are nurturers.

We are here. We support other people. We lift other w- other people up. I have bonus, well, they're men now. They, they were boys for, for many years. But- 

[00:16:27] Danielle Frank: Yeah ... 

[00:16:28] Penny Fitzgerald: you know, we all have that in us. I feel like women are mothers no matter if they were from our body or not, you know? Yeah. So I, I fully believe that you have all the credentials to, to be 

[00:16:42] Danielle Frank: a parent.

Absolutely. Yeah, and you know, it, it's just like I said, you know, it's, it's... I, I call it also like a outsider's insider, you know? I, I may be the outsider- An inside, you know, in, a vested interest to how these kids- Yes ... are shaped and to- We all do, yes ... to [00:17:00] what they become. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:17:02] Penny Fitzgerald: Absolutely. Yeah. We, we wanna make the world a better place, and that starts with our children and how we raise them and how we nurture them and support them.

[00:17:10] Danielle Frank: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:17:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. So y- you wa- you said you have a chapter from your book that you 

[00:17:16] Danielle Frank: might- Yeah, I'd love to share a chapter- Read to us ... so your readers can get an idea of what it... So it's a wine lover's guide to parenting. Oh, so cute. So as I said, it's written like a children's book. It's illustrated. Um- 

[00:17:27] Penny Fitzgerald: Uh-huh

[00:17:28] Danielle Frank: it's, you know, it rhymes. Um, but it's not made for kids. So I'll read- This is cute ... lesson three is you don't want your kids to ferment. Okay. In the wine-making process, fermentation is when you convert sugar into alcohol. So obviously we think of something sugar as sweet. Alcohol we think of as harsh or biting.

So this is about you don't want your kids to turn from someone sweet into someone harsh and biting because they don't have manners. Manners, manners, manners are the key to it all. These lessons need to start even when they're small. Teach them this from day one [00:18:00] before they start to crawl. You don't want your kid to be the sour grape in the bunch and turn into a spoiled brat that kids wanna punch.

When they start talking, make sure they know thank you and please, and to always say bless you when they hear someone sneeze. Please and thank you are an absolute must. Without that, your child's a total bust. There's nothing worse than a child who has behavior that is crude, 'cause it'll continue as they're older and become someone who's rude.

People don't take kindly to and aren't nice to those with attitude, 'cause it's very off-putting and puts others in a bad mood, oftentimes causing confrontation and leads to a nasty feud, wanting to put a little bit of poison in your child's food. Is that really how you want your kids to be viewed?

Wouldn't you prefer that they're someone who's wooed? Without manners, they'll ferment and turn into someone harsh and biting. Yeah. They may turn into a kid who's rude, obnoxious, and always fighting. So teach your kids some manners and to have some heart and soul. Without that, your kid may well turn into an a-hole.

[00:18:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Cute.[00:19:00] 

Thanks. That must have been fun to write. 

[00:19:02] Danielle Frank: It was a lot of fun. Um, yeah, it just kind of all, like, came out. You know, obviously I was thinking of, um, wine terminology and things that people would wanna know. Also, I was thinking of words that rhyme easily, right? You won't see a, a, a rhyme in there for oenology, 'cause not many things can rhyme with that.

But, you know, just, um, a- approachable everyday wine terms. Um, some unique terms as well that people might not know, and just what the definitions are. And yeah, I think, uh, I think there's a lot of fun parallels between wine and human behavior. 

[00:19:36] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, for sure. 

[00:19:38] Danielle Frank: Yeah. 

[00:19:38] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, absolutely. It's a very good study. Um, you know, and even, you know, the, the process of tasting wine, of wine tasting itself, going through the steps to tasting wine, how you engage all of your senses, how you're present through all of it, that's really a good analogy for being present with another person, for l- really listening to [00:20:00] them, getting to know them, and engaging all of your senses when you're getting to know someone, and, uh, just being really present for them.

[00:20:07] Danielle Frank: Absolutely. Like, yeah, there's a chapter in there, like, like a fine wine, you need to let it breathe, right? Just letting it- Mm ... breathe, letting it, um, you know, uh, find its way. Reveal 

[00:20:18] Penny Fitzgerald: itself. 

[00:20:18] Danielle Frank: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

[00:20:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah, you can't rush the process either. 

[00:20:24] Danielle Frank: You can't. You can't rush the process. You can't rush, you know, raising your kids.

Uh, you know, it's, it takes... You know, you've got 18 years before hopefully you send them off to college. But, um, you know, it's, uh, they're always ever-evolving, and especially in their formative years, so it takes time. Takes time to open up- Mm ... and, and marinate. 

[00:20:46] Penny Fitzgerald: For sure. Yeah. It's for your bouquet to arrive and blossom.

[00:20:50] Danielle Frank: Yeah. Exactly. 

[00:20:51] Penny Fitzgerald: How many wine terms can we fit in, right? 

[00:20:55] Danielle Frank: Exactly. 

[00:20:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Love it. So what's your favorite part of, um, you know, either your q- your [00:21:00] day job or your writing? What do you love the most? 

[00:21:05] Danielle Frank: Oh, my favorite part. I mean, you know, I have so many favorite things about both. I mean, my favorite thing about my day job is, like I said, you know, with, um, w- with Moet Hennessy, the brands I represent, you know, these...

All these brands have s- such amazing history and- Mm-hmm ... they're all so different, right? And getting to share, you know, the differences and the, the history. Um, like Veuve Clicquot, um, that's one of the brands I represent, and the story behind it is just spectacular, and, uh, it's fascinating. Madame Clicquot was essentially the first female entrepreneur, and I love, I love sharing the romanticism of the brands.

Um, you know, there's so much history and there's so much depth to it. So I love that. I love, um, you know, I'm customer facing, so I get to work with clients. I, I call on, like, I deal with, um, all the national resorts at the headquarter [00:22:00] level. So I'm just a relationship person, so I love, um, having that interaction with my customers and trying to, um, find solutions for their needs with our portfolio, um, and ideas.

Mm-hmm. So, you know, the creativity, creativity of it. And I think, you know, with my writing, that's, that's, um, my favorite part too, is the creativity of it. I have so many different ideas and so many different writing projects- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... that I'm working on at any given moment, 'cause, like, inspiration strikes and I just have to get it down.

Um, so yeah, I love... I just have a, I have a, a, I won't say warped mind, but I always get, like, a lot of random ideas and I just- Mm-hmm ... you know, wanna share it with the world. So, um- Nice ... writing is just a fun outlet for that. 

[00:22:44] Penny Fitzgerald: That's awesome. Yeah. Would you, would you mind sharing a little bit more about the Madame Clicquot, uh, 

[00:22:50] Danielle Frank: story?

Oh my God, I love geeking out about it. Yeah. She took- Oh, cool ... she took, she took over, um, her husband, he passed away and she was 27, and, you know, b- And this [00:23:00] was 

[00:23:00] Penny Fitzgerald: when? Remind our, remind my listeners. A lot of my listeners are wine lovers and, um, really excited to hear about women in wi- you know, different industries.

So this would be really great to, to 

[00:23:12] Danielle Frank: tell them about. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. Sh- uh, she, um, this was in the 1800s.

but, um, yeah, she was 27 years old and, um- Wow ... after her husband died. And she, you know, back then it was just unheard of for a woman to take the helm of a, of a winery, of a champagne house. Um, but she said to her father-in-law, like she wants to do it, and she really revolutionized the whole industry.

I mean, she, um, you know, oh, champagne used to be very cloudy. She created the riddling rack, which is a, a- Mm. You know, it's a table where you turn, constantly turn the bottle that's, it's still used today by many, many wineries, champagne houses, is the riddling rack. So that takes the sediment out of the wine.

Um, she created the first [00:24:00] blended rosé, so you can thank- Mm ... Madame Clicquot for creating rosé champagne. She created the first vintage champagne. Mm. Um, and you know, she was just revolutionary also like, you know, with the trade wars, um, how you weren't allowed to, um, sell, you know, to Russia and outside France.

Um, she would, um, you know, she had, she had a partner and, you know, he would, um, they, they created, she would write letters. It was a whole like letter-writing campaign, and she would write letters as if she was writing friends, and that's how she conducted her business during the trade wars. Mm. Um, yeah, it's- 

[00:24:39] Penny Fitzgerald: What a great example that is, right?

Because it's, for women, it's all about re- building relationships and supporting other people in a very collaborative way. 

[00:24:48] Danielle Frank: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and especially like in the early 19th century when the, you know, the- Mm ... Napoleonic Code denied women civil political rights, prohibiting them- Mm-hmm ... from working, voting, earning money, [00:25:00] and she really, um, she, she really took the ball and ran with it.

If you want a great book, um, when I read this, I was not even a voracious reader as much as I am now, and I could not put this book down. It's by Tilar Mazzeo called, um- Okay ... I think it's called, I have a copy. It's called The Widow Clicquot. Yes. It's, it's what the movie was based on, on Tilar's book. I do not recommend the movie at all.

I couldn't get- Really? ... through it. It took a lot of creative license. I didn't like it. Oh. Sorry to the filmmakers and whoever put that out, but the book is fantastic. Um, yeah, so- Um, I, I highly recommend reading it. And yeah, so I, you know, I, I'm very fortunate that I get to go to Champagne and, um- Mm ... my favorite part is when I take customers, I always, it's not, I, it's not open to the public, but because I work there we, I, I always ask them to build this into the program.

We go to the archives house, which is my favorite part of the trip. Wow. Um, they have every, like, [00:26:00] they pretty much have everything from, uh, Madame Clicquot catalogs. And so her letter writing- Mm ... especially back then, you didn't have a, a copier that you can copy your letters and put a fi- Mm-hmm. Right ... you know, put a copy in your, or you didn't have it on your computer.

So every time she wrote a correspondence, she wrote a second one so that she had- Ah ... a copy of it. And this went back- Brilliant ... and forth, back and forth. And we have every copy of every letter. Um, we have- Oh my gosh ... all her ledgers. Yeah. It's wild. It's, it's so fascinating. Yeah. 

[00:26:28] Penny Fitzgerald: That is fantastic. 

[00:26:29] Danielle Frank: Yeah. It's truly- Wow

amazing. 

[00:26:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. I don't know if you know this or not, Danielle, but I do a, a yearly trip for women called Wine Camp. 

[00:26:39] Danielle Frank: Oh, I love that. 

[00:26:40] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And we visit different wine regions, and so far we've only been in the United States. So wine regions that are not ones that a lot of people have been to yet. Um, so just kind of introducing women to new regions and new, new grapes, new ways of doing things.

And, and many of the winemakers that [00:27:00] we visit, when many of the wineries are women-owned or women-run or women winemakers. So just to hear this story is really fantastic, and I don't know if we'll ever get to France as a group, but that would be super fun. 

[00:27:15] Danielle Frank: I love this wine trip. I need to know when the next one is.

[00:27:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, it's coming right up. It's, um, July 30th through August 2nd this year, and we're, um- Oh, wow. Fun. Where are 

[00:27:23] Danielle Frank: you guys going? 

[00:27:25] Penny Fitzgerald: The Finger Lakes region of New York- Oh, very nice ... this year. So yeah, we were in Virginia last year and Texas Hill Country the year before that. So just, you know, new and up, up-and-coming wine regions and kind of discovering what's happening and how things have improved since the beginning and all of that.

So it's been a m- ama- an amazing way to, you know- Yeah. That- ... lift other women in the wine industry. 

[00:27:46] Danielle Frank: That is amazing. I love that 

[00:27:50] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. So, so you work now pre- predominantly with, um... Who are, who are your customers? Are you serving restaurants? Um- 

[00:27:58] Danielle Frank: Um, I call on the, [00:28:00] um, national hotel groups at the corporate level.

Okay. So Marriott International, Four Seasons, Hyatt, Hilton, um, all the big hotel resort groups, um- Nice ... at the, yeah, at the- 

[00:28:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay ... 

[00:28:13] Danielle Frank: the national level. Yeah. 

[00:28:15] Penny Fitzgerald: And you get to take them to to 

[00:28:18] Danielle Frank: brew. We, we... Yeah, we do some, uh, so that, uh, I'll be going on a trip end of September with some key customers as well. Oh. So it's, it's exciting to be able to- That's fantastic

to share the history and the story, um, and see it live with, with my customers. Yeah. 

[00:28:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. 

[00:28:34] Danielle Frank: Yeah. 

[00:28:34] Penny Fitzgerald: Very cool. Okay, what other fun stories do you have from either your book writing or, or your, um, you know, your time with the, with your brands? It just sounds fascinating, all of it. 

[00:28:48] Danielle Frank: Oh, God, where do I start?

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's amazing, like I said, like to, you know, to, to represent brands that have, like, I've been in like, you know, the Highlands of Scotland with [00:29:00] our scotch- Mm ... and, um, you know, cognac with Hennessy. Nice. Um, it's, you know, it's, I'm very fortunate. I know that much- Mm-hmm ... um, for sure.

Um, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's always an adventure trying to see the next new place and think of the next new idea for b- for books. My next iteration- Mm ... of my book i- of this book is a whiskey lover's guide to dog breeds, so. 

[00:29:26] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, 

[00:29:26] Danielle Frank: fun. Um, yes. So that'll be structured a little differently, but, uh, that's, that's what I'm working on next, so I'm- 

[00:29:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay

[00:29:33] Danielle Frank: almost done with i- 

[00:29:34] Penny Fitzgerald: You've got the wheels turning. 

[00:29:35] Danielle Frank: Yeah. Uh, this is, yeah, so again, any publishers out there, it's available to be published. 

[00:29:40] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay. Well, I, you know, I did interview a publisher, and I will get you guys connected. Um- Oh, 

[00:29:46] Danielle Frank: thank you. That'd be 

[00:29:47] Penny Fitzgerald: great ... yeah. For sure, yeah. I'm not sure how how much she's doing these days, 'cause she is, um, working on transitioning to retirement, so she could refer- Oh, good 

[00:29:57] Danielle Frank: for her.

[00:29:58] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah. So [00:30:00] but she has, of course, you know, lots of knowledge on it and would love- Oh ... to connect you. 

[00:30:05] Danielle Frank: That would be great. Thank you. I appreciate 

[00:30:06] Penny Fitzgerald: that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Um, yeah, for sure. So you've got my wheels turning too, because, um, another thing I love to do is create cocktails, and I have- Yes ... a monthly group call, we- it's a sipper club.

[00:30:20] Danielle Frank: I love that. 

[00:30:21] Penny Fitzgerald: So I create a recipe every month for my sippers, and we get together and just get to know each other over Zoom for, like, a happy hour once a month, and it's just been super fun. Do you, um, with your brands, do you do something similar, or do you have, uh, people who create cocktails, or are you mainly on the sales side of it and work- just working with your clients?

[00:30:44] Danielle Frank: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm on the sales side. It's like a hybrid of sales and marketing, you know? We're curating, like- Mm-hmm ... you know, marketing platforms that align with our str- strategies that are in line with the customer's needs. Um, you know, we do have, like, a national mixologist, [00:31:00] but, um- Nice ... he's for, like, the company, and yeah, it's like, you know, when, when they need help.

Um, but a lot of times, like, I know my hotels have so many of their in-house mixologists, and- 

[00:31:11] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. 

[00:31:11] Danielle Frank: But yeah, we have somebody- So fun ... um, that represents our brands to help with cocktail curation. It's a blast. 

[00:31:18] Penny Fitzgerald: It is a blast. Yeah. Yeah, just- Now- ... creating a new, uh, cocktail is just- 

[00:31:22] Danielle Frank: Yeah ... 

[00:31:22] Penny Fitzgerald: fun and a little dangerous.

[00:31:24] Danielle Frank: I, I love that, and I love, like, the, you know, the coming up with the names is, is almost just- Oh, yeah ... as fun as well. 

[00:31:31] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And riffing on some c- you know, classic cocktails or just, you know, up- updating them for, you know, what's happening now, and all of that is just fun. 

[00:31:40] Danielle Frank: Absolutely. We do a lot of riff on cocktail because, like, you know, He- we, we own Hennessy, of course, and, um, you know, cognac was really, like, the originator in so many classic cocktails, but people are not- Mm

as familiar with it, so we, you know, we really try and highlight that. Like, you know, nobody realizes, like, Hennessy makes a great margarita. Um, you know- [00:32:00] Oh ... so yeah, we call it the Hennyrita. Um, yeah, so really- ... trying to showcase brands in different, um, different cocktails, different drinks, because, you know, there's so much depth to cognac, for example, you know?

I mean- Mm-hmm ... I love vodka. We have Belvedere. It's great, but obviously- Mm. Love Belvedere ... um, you know, it's, it's colorless. It's odorless. It's, um, it's not like a gin, you know, that has botanicals and different flavors or cognac- Mm-hmm ... as well. So it really brings a lot to a cocktail. 

[00:32:30] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and there, there are so many things you can do with all the different spirits, and I think the classic cocktails are really having a moment because nostalgia- Yeah I don't know.

It's weird to say m- nostalgia is in. It's a really... 

[00:32:49] Danielle Frank: Absolutely. And you know what? They didn't- But yeah, I feel like people 

[00:32:51] Penny Fitzgerald: are really into it ... 

[00:32:51] Danielle Frank: they didn't become classic for nothing. I mean, it's time- Right ... yeah, year over year, it's just the taste profile and the, again, you know, there's the [00:33:00] romanticism, the story behind it.

It's always, uh- 

[00:33:03] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:33:04] Danielle Frank: yeah So is that up- 

[00:33:05] Penny Fitzgerald: So for your book, um, how are... Your upcoming book, how are you fitting that in to such a, you know, busy travel schedule, a busy, you're, you know, busy in sales and marketing. How do you juggle all of that? 

[00:33:20] Danielle Frank: Huh. I'll, I'll tell you when I figure it out. Oh, no. I mean, um, yeah, that's, that's been challenging.

That's why, like, I have the framework of the next book and, you know, the, the style of this, you know, this, this book is, you know, rhymes, that it won't rhyme. It's, um... And I want to say it's, you know, this concept's a little easier than, like, writing a novel, 'cause I have a novel idea that I've had for, like, eight years.

It's just... I wrote it as a short story. That's just sitting there. Maybe I'll get to it at retirement for something. Um- 

[00:33:49] Penny Fitzgerald: At some 

[00:33:49] Danielle Frank: point ... but yeah, it's, it's hard. It's hard to try and fit it in. Um- 

[00:33:53] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:33:54] Danielle Frank: you know? But I try. I try a little bit. Um, long plane rides are great when [00:34:00] nobody's calling me- Mm ... and I'm not distracted.

If I don't- Mm-hmm ... if I've gotten all my work done, um, for work, then, you know, maybe I'll spend a little time writing on the plane. But, um, it's hard. It's hard to balance it all. Yeah. That's for sure. 

[00:34:13] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. I think for women especially, we, we wear so many hats, and we're doing so many different things.

And we have our passion project or maybe something that's tugging at us, something that we've wanted to do forever, and we just don't take that step because we let life get in the way or we, we put everybody else's- Yeah ... needs above our own. You know, putting one foot in front of the other and just that dream slowly dies for many of us, I feel like.

[00:34:37] Danielle Frank: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the key, right, is just being your own- Yeah ... champion. You know, hyping- Yeah ... being your own hype woman, telling yourself that, like, you know... I just... A- and, and that's kind of sort of the path I've been on is, like, I've just, um, become someone who's been, like, you know, that it started when, like I said, at, at my late [00:35:00] 20s when I was traveling so much for Miramax and seeing the world- 

[00:35:03] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm

[00:35:03] Danielle Frank: and was faced with this, like, oh, I'm here. I'm with my boyfriend a couple years. Everyone's getting married. It's which fork in the road do I take? I was like, "I'm not-" Mm "... ready for that path yet. There's so much still I want to do-" Yeah "... and go after it." And so that kind of put me on this journey of, you know, you have one life to live.

Mm-hmm. I want to do with it everything that I can, within reason of course, within legal limits. Um, but, you know, like, when I was a kid, I always loved game shows, so went on a game show- Mm ... a few years ago. You know? Oh, how fun. It's like, okay, check that off the list. Yeah. You know, just really putting myself out there.

Like, you don't know unless you try it and you do it and go after it. Yeah. Um, because as I said, you know, we have one life to live, and I don't want to be on my death bed being like, "Ah, I should have." Oh, my gosh. And that's what I did with this book, too. You know, I wrote this book 14 years ago, and I always got, you know, great feedback on it- And I love this project, but, you know, it, getting published is hard, and- Mm-hmm

self-publishing was [00:36:00] daunting to me. And when I heard about hybrid publishing, um, I finally... You know, it's, it's a financial commitment as well. So I finally, um, last year was like, "If I don't do something with this, it's gonna plague me on my death bed." Mm. And that's why I just said, "You know, now's the time."

Like- Mm-hmm ... don't put it off any longer. Invest the time, invest the money, and get it out there for the world to see. 

[00:36:24] Penny Fitzgerald: That's great. You know, and it's never too late. It's never too late- Never ... to chase your dreams. It's never too late to just get curious about something and dip a toe in. Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to be an either/or.

That fork in the road doesn't have to be this or that, it could be and. Right, exactly. You don't have to choose. And you know, most of us, we don't know, we don't know what we're capable of. Yeah. And we don't know what's gonna work, what other people are gonna like, what's gonna support other people, what's gonna support us.

We don't know what the next step is until we take it. You know, you've gotta take that step to be able to figure out what, what comes after that, and which path- Exactly ... do I really wanna take. [00:37:00] 

[00:37:00] Danielle Frank: Yeah. I mean, you don't know that, you know. Any new path you go on, maybe that was the journey you were meant to be on all along.

[00:37:06] Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. 

[00:37:06] Danielle Frank: And if not, then you've... You know, if not, you've tried and, you know, you can veer off to another path or another journey to fi- get back, you know, where you wanna go. 

[00:37:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. Yep, never too late. 

[00:37:19] Danielle Frank: Never 

[00:37:21] Penny Fitzgerald: too late. Love it. Um, what have I not asked you that you would love to share with my, with my people?

[00:37:28] Danielle Frank: Um, wow. Let's see. Um, no, I just, uh, I think- It's, it's fantastic and I just, yeah, I love just reiterating that, you know, um, I, I found such joy in, in the unexpected. And it can be scary, um, it can certainly be scary. But I, I always want people to know that, um, you know, uh, when you dive headfirst into, into something rather than wallow in like what didn't happen, you know, it [00:38:00] can propel you forward and, and just to go for it and to, you know, believe in what you, um, believe in what you want to happen for yourself, you know?

[00:38:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:11] Danielle Frank: And, and heed the lessons from the past. I always, I always talk about, you know, also like all the life pivots I had, right? Like even the relationship pivot, breaking off my engagement. Mm-hmm. It's, you know, um, I just look at it that, you know, the relationship didn't fail, it finished its job, and I took myself- Mm

I took information from that that I used for future relationships, you know? I took the things that I didn't like from that and it helped clarify my values for future relationships as well. And, and that's what everything is in life, right? A lesson to heed us, um, for the next step and the next journey that we're on.

[00:38:42] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier too, being your own hype girl. That's, that's amazing. You know, and if you can't be your own hype girl, then I bet you have a lot of friends who would love to be that role or play that role for as long as you want them to, [00:39:00] 

[00:39:00] Danielle Frank: you know? Exactly. Find that, find that person that's gonna cheer you on the sidelines, and if you don't- Yes

if somebody's not gonna cheer you on and they're gonna inhibit you, then maybe that person is not your- Yeah, 

[00:39:12] Penny Fitzgerald: I can't even... I'm so fortunate. I have such amazing friends. I can't imagine someone not. And you know, and I know that there are strangers out there that are trolls on the internet that are gonna, you know, just try and knock people down.

But they're not doing the thing, right? Right. They're not the ones out there being visible and doing the thing that lights them up. So you've gotta really just ignore that kind of crap. 

[00:39:39] Danielle Frank: Yeah, you really do, especially now more than ever, right? The people are- Mm-hmm ... such trolls. Especially for people, um, that are happy and feeling empowered and put themselves out there.

You know, there's- Mm-hmm ... a lot of people out there that, whether it's jealousy or they don't want to see people succeed, um, they'll try and tear them down. But you gotta, you gotta clear out the noise and just- [00:40:00] Mm-hmm ... focus forward. Focus forward on yourself. 

[00:40:03] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

yeah, yeah. Okay, can I change gears? I mean, we've been talking about cocktails- Of course ... and having fun all along. But what's your favorite? Do you have a favorite cocktail or favorite glass of wine or 

[00:40:13] Danielle Frank: brand? Oh. Oh, G- okay, favorite cocktails is a lot easier. Um- Okay ... I love, um, a, a Braveheart, a Gold Rush, a Whiskey Sour, anything like that.

Mm. I love. Those are my favorite. Okay. I love a Sidecar. Talk about classic cocktail. 

[00:40:31] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm, 

[00:40:32] Danielle Frank: mm-hmm. Um, yeah. So those are my favorite. Wine is tough because, um, it really goes by my mood, and, like, it's summer. Well, it's always summer in LA, in California where I live. But, um, you know, when it's nice out, I drink a lot of whites.

Um- Mm-hmm, same ... I love Sancerre, I love Chablis- Mm ... Chenin Blanc. 

[00:40:51] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. 

[00:40:52] Danielle Frank: Oh. Really, really, yeah, drinking a lot of that. Um, but I do love reds. You know, it depends what I'm eating too. Mm-hmm. If I'm having a steak, [00:41:00] uh, you know, a nice bold Cab. But I just... I love all kinds of reds. Um, I really love, I'm into Volnay right now, and I'm going to Burgundy for the first time.

Oh. Before, before my champagne trip for work, I just booked myself a couple days by myself exploring through Burgundy. There's, um- I love 

[00:41:19] Penny Fitzgerald: it ... 

[00:41:20] Danielle Frank: you can rent an e-bike and just go from, um, Beaune to Pommard to, uh, Volnay and Meursault. Oh. So I'm gonna do that and just laze through the countryside. Nice. Very excited, yeah.

[00:41:34] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my gosh, it just, that's so much work, work, work, work. How will you 

[00:41:40] Danielle Frank: ever survive? It's a lot of research. Yeah. It's a lot of research, but I'm up for it. I'm up for the challenge. 

[00:41:45] Penny Fitzgerald: Exactly. Oh my gosh, I would, yeah, love that trip. That, and I've got goosebumps just thinking about it. 

[00:41:50] Danielle Frank: Uh-huh. 

[00:41:51] Penny Fitzgerald: Sounds amazing. Um, Loire Valley is definitely on my list as well.

You mentioned some lovely wines from there. How do you feel about Cab Franc? [00:42:00] 

[00:42:00] Danielle Frank: Oh, I love Cab Franc. I, I mean, I'm an equal opportunist wine drinker, frankly. There's not really a wine... I don't, I'm not into the orange wines. 

[00:42:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:42:11] Danielle Frank: Um, not- I'm 

[00:42:13] Penny Fitzgerald: willing to try, but yeah, that's, um- 

[00:42:15] Danielle Frank: Yeah ... it's a little weird. It's, yeah, it's not my cup of tea or my cup of wine.

Yeah. Uh, uh, yeah, I love a Cab Franc. I love, I love a red blend. I love a GSM. Mm, yes. Uh, gosh, Syrah, Mourvèdre combo. 

[00:42:31] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:31] Danielle Frank: I love it all. 

[00:42:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. I love a good Gamay, too. A nice Beaujolais. 

[00:42:35] Danielle Frank: Oh, I love... I, I just had a delicious one Friday night, um, you know, slightly chilled. I love Gamay. Mm. Yeah. 

[00:42:43] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. This time of year, especially, when it's...

Well- Uh-huh ... I'm in Iowa, so it's just starting to warm up, and it's been really nice. So, yeah, lovely. 

[00:42:51] Danielle Frank: Yeah. There's a place in Venice Beach that has the best burger. It's my favorite, one of my favorite restaurants in LA. Um, it always [00:43:00] gets written up for the, the vibe and the burger. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's a block from the beach.

You're right there, and- Ah, nice ... uh, they have great wines. And so my best friend and I had a nice chilled Gamay with that- Ah ... delicious burger. Mm. 

[00:43:13] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that sounds amazing. 

[00:43:15] Danielle Frank: Yeah. Okay, so for- So not too heavy of a red. Yeah. 

[00:43:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. So, so for anyone listening who might, uh, be in the area or who would be visiting, what, what's the name of the restaurant?

Do you remember? 

[00:43:25] Danielle Frank: Um- Oh, it's called Dudley Market. It's- 

[00:43:27] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay ... 

[00:43:28] Danielle Frank: fantastic. And it's, like, right around the corner from, like, the Strand where you just, there's Venice Beach- Oh, yeah ... Club where you just afterwards, uh- Mm-hmm ... my friend and we just watch the sunset. Like, you're right on the beach. Mm. Oh, yeah, that whole area is, it's 

[00:43:40] Penny Fitzgerald: great.

I 

[00:43:41] Danielle Frank: love it. But Dudley Market is fantastic. There's so many great restaurants here. I could spend an hour on- 

[00:43:45] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:43:46] Danielle Frank: where to go in LA. People can... They, if you put in any show notes, you can include my email address. I'm always happy to give 

[00:43:53] Penny Fitzgerald: people- I will. Yes. Sounds good. I will definitely include, um, your contact information and your book, how to get it, and- [00:44:00] Perfect.

Thank you ... and the Widow Veuve and all of those in, in my show notes links, too. Excellent. So what, what's a fun memory shared with girlfriends over a nice glass of something lovely? 

[00:44:14] Danielle Frank: Ugh. I mean, uh, memories that I've had with them or just a memory that 

[00:44:18] Penny Fitzgerald: I- Yeah, just any- Oh, you know- ... any fun memory, um, yeah, with girlfriends I would say.

Something that's- 

[00:44:24] Danielle Frank: Y- yeah, you know, I mean, like you said, like I, I'm very fortunate, um, to, when I moved to LA, I have a network of friends. Um, I actually have like a group of friends in Venice, Santa Monica, like, you know, we're all late 40s, early 50s. Um, s- a couple people married, two with kids. Um, but we're all just sort of, we went this sort of, you know- quote, unquote, "unconventional path."

And- So I think just the memories are, you know, I, 'cause I love to travel, and so I- Mm ... I, you know, I get to travel with, I try and do, like, smaller group travel. It's hard to travel with groups. So [00:45:00] it's like a one-off. You know, this one I did the south of France. Um, my best friend, I did Spain in April. And so- 

[00:45:07] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm.

[00:45:08] Danielle Frank: Really just, um, you know, reliving the memories of all the travel experiences we've had and, um, lots of stories on those trips too. And yeah, it's tons of fun. But 

[00:45:19] Penny Fitzgerald: yeah. Shared experiences with girlfriends, I d- I don't think you can beat it. 

[00:45:23] Danielle Frank: No, you can't. And, like, eating your, and drinking your way through a country- Oh

is how I love to see it. So- Yeah. 

[00:45:29] Penny Fitzgerald: You're my people. 

[00:45:32] Danielle Frank: Absolutely. That's why I wanna come on that wine trip. 

[00:45:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes, for sure. Well, yeah, if anyone's listening, that is, just go to my website pennyforyourshots.com/winecamp. So there's the information on it there. Love it. 

It's gonna be amazing. 

[00:45:47] Danielle Frank: That sounds amazing. 

[00:45:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah, so fun. I just, I love watching women get together and build new friendships and just solidify relationships and, gosh, just have so much fun together [00:46:00] and explore new, explore new regions, explore new wines. 

[00:46:04] Danielle Frank: Yeah. I mean, you're never too old to, like, make new friends too.

And, you know, that's what I feel like. Ah, right. I continue to meet people, you know, through work or just around town, and friends of friends come into the group and into the fold. And it's never too late. 'Cause it's almost like- 

[00:46:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:46:19] Danielle Frank: you know, it's almost like, um, you know, relationships and marriage. You know, that was also one of the reasons why I didn't, I never thought about getting married young as well is because, you know, and look, you know, I, I love being in love.

Um, you know, hope to meet somebody someday. Mm-hmm. But I also realized at a young age that, like, you know, and I'm not saying this for every relationship, but sometimes a lot of relationships, why they fail is because when people get married young, like, you're, you don't know who you are. And it's very hard for- Yeah

people, two people to grow at the exact same trajectory. We all, you know, grow in different paths, and, and people evolve, right? And sometimes you don't [00:47:00] evolve in the same way. And that's why I think, you know, I'll meet somebody when I'm older because I know who I am. Mm-hmm. Hopefully they know who they are.

And, uh, you also know, like, what you will and won't put up with anymore. Um- Mm. It's hard to know who you are and what you want truly out of a partner when, when you're in your 20s. What I put up with in my 20s is, you know, I would never put up with now. Oh, yeah. That's for sure. 

[00:47:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. For, I, yeah, totally agree.

Yeah. That's, um, our values were malleable, I feel like at the, you know- Yes ... that early stage of life. And- Yeah, I'm s- I feel like women especially, we're stronger as we age. We're more wise. Absolutely. We're not, um, we're not willing to tolerate not being treated well. 

[00:47:48] Danielle Frank: 100%. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The crap I put up with, oh, man.

I shudder to think. I know. You know, just 'cause the guy was cute and, oh, he has a good job. It's like, uh- He 

[00:47:57] Penny Fitzgerald: means well. 

[00:47:58] Danielle Frank: Yeah. Yeah. The, the parameters [00:48:00] need to be a lot 

[00:48:02] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah ... 

[00:48:02] Danielle Frank: a lot more sharp and, uh, yeah. Yeah. A lot more strict. Mm. 

[00:48:06] Penny Fitzgerald: Super fortunate to have met my husband at close to 40. We got married- That's great

close to 40. 

[00:48:12] Danielle Frank: Yeah. 

[00:48:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, and he, to, you, yeah, finding someone who's your person and evolving with them and continuing to grow, 'cause we never stop growing, hopefully. 

[00:48:22] Danielle Frank: Exactly. 

[00:48:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah. Evolving together, that's fun. 

[00:48:27] Danielle Frank: Yeah. 

[00:48:27] Penny Fitzgerald: When you find the right person. 

[00:48:29] Danielle Frank: When you find the right person, absolutely. Yes. And sometimes we don't find the right person, which happens.

Yeah. But to me, it's just about, you know, then don't get stuck in it. Like, again, that feeling- Yeah ... of you have one life to live. Like, do you wanna... 'Cause that's what I learned when I was with my fiance. I mean, him not wanting kids, look, that was a big piece, but there were other things as well, and there were moments in the relationship when I was like, "I'm really unhappy," and that was the worst feeling in the world, feeling lonely and unhappy in a relationship.

And- Right ... that was the biggest [00:49:00] lesson I took from that, is like I never want that feeling of being lonely when I'm in a relationship. Oh, my 

[00:49:06] Penny Fitzgerald: gosh. I never 

[00:49:06] Danielle Frank: wanna have that feeling again. 

[00:49:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Right. Right. Being alone and content and growing is way better than being in the wrong relationship- Absolutely ... and not growing and not, not having respect for yourself or- 

[00:49:22] Danielle Frank: Exactly

[00:49:22] Penny Fitzgerald: you know? Well, cheers to that. 

[00:49:28] Danielle Frank: And if I had a glass of wine, 

[00:49:29] Penny Fitzgerald: I'd cheers you. I know. It d- it's early in, in the day, but yeah, we'll get to the- ... to that wine later. 

[00:49:34] Danielle Frank: Yes, exactly. 

[00:49:36] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, my gosh. Danielle, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for this lovely conversation. 

[00:49:41] Danielle Frank: Oh, so fun. Thank you for having me on your fabulous podcast.

[00:49:44] Penny Fitzgerald: Have a wonderful rest of your day. 

[00:49:46] Danielle Frank: You too. Take care. 

[00:49:47] Penny Fitzgerald: All right. Yeah. Bye. Bye. [00:50:00]