How Women Build Confidence Through Connection with Jillian Johnson

What if confidence isn't something you find... but something you build?

In this week's conversation, Penny sits down with Jillian Johnson, founder of LEGS (Ladies Executive Golf Society), to explore how connection, community, and a little bit of courage can transform the way women show up in their lives and businesses.

While golf may have brought these women together, this conversation is really about something much bigger: creating opportunities, embracing joy, and stepping into spaces where we may not have always felt invited.

Jillian shares how she went from corporate employee benefits consulting to building a national organization designed to help women feel confident, connected, and empowered through golf.

They also explore why play matters, how community supports our mental health, and why women deserve spaces that encourage collaboration over competition.

Please note: This episode includes discussion of trauma and attempted assault. Listener discretion is advised.

In this episode:

• How Jillian turned an idea into a national community for women
• Why confidence is built through connection and experience
• The networking opportunities many women miss and how to change that
• Why fun and play are essential, not optional
• The role community plays in women's well-being
• How to stop worrying about what others think and start showing up authentically

If you've been craving more confidence, meaningful friendships, or permission to try something new, this conversation is for you.

Connect with Jillian:
Website: legs.golf
LinkedIn: Jillian Johnson, founder of #LEGS

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Transcript

How Women Build Confidence Through Connection with Jillian Johnson
===

​[00:00:00] 

[00:00:33] Jillian Johnson: Hello, my friend. This week's conversation is with Jillian Johnson, founder of LEGS, the Ladies Executive Golf Society, and oh my gosh, I cannot wait for you to meet her. Jillian is fun and funny and full of energy, but she's also doing something really important. She saw the connections men were making on the golf course, the relationships, the opportunities, the conversations that happened outside the boardroom, and she created LEGS to [00:01:00] help women feel more confident, more connected, and more welcome in that space.

And yes, we talk about golf, but really this conversation is about so much more than golf. It's about confidence. It's about connection. It's about play and joy and putting ourselves in rooms or on courses where we may not have always felt invited. I also wanna give you a gentle heads-up before we jump in.

Later in the conversation, Jillian shares a very personal experience involving trauma and an attempted assault. We don't go there for shock value. We go there because so many women carry stories they didn't ask for, and too often women are left carrying the shame that was never theirs to carry. So if that part of the conversation feels tender for you, please take care of yourself.

Step away, skip ahead, come back later, or don't. You get to choose what feels safe for you. And let me say this clearly. If something happened to you, it was not your fault, full stop. [00:02:00] I'm grateful Jillian trusted us with her story. I'm grateful for the way she talks about resilience, healing, and reclaiming her power, and I'm really grateful for the work she's doing to help women find confidence, community, and a whole lot more fun.

So grab your favorite drink, settle in, and meet my new friend. Here is Jillian Johnson.

Penny 

[00:02:22] Penny Fitzgerald: Hi, Jillian. 

thank you so much for chatting with me.

I'm excited to tell your story and get a little bit more information out there about LEGS. 

[00:02:30] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Tell me more about, yeah, the podcast. Like, I wanna know more about, like, what made you start it- ... and how long you've been doing it. 

[00:02:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I've, I've been doing it for two and a half years now. 

[00:02:43] Jillian Johnson: Oh, wow. 

[00:02:43] Penny Fitzgerald: So yeah, it's something that I've wanted to do for a very long time.

I wanted to, like, lift women up and support other women tell the story, 'cause I feel like so many of us have so much to share, and we hold ourselves back because, [00:03:00] you know, we're just doing the thing. You know it. Putting one foot in front of the other and- 

[00:03:04] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:03:06] Penny Fitzgerald: So that's- I'll- ... kinda why I started 

[00:03:08] Jillian Johnson: Well, and I love how your, uh, signature is director of fun.

I'm like, we've got- Yes. ... we've got director of funs in all of our chapters. Uh. 'Cause, 'cause this isn't your full-time gig, is it? 

[00:03:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, it's part of it, yeah. So I used to do in-home wine tastings. 

[00:03:27] Jillian Johnson: What? 

[00:03:28] Penny Fitzgerald: Talk about a fun gig. Yeah. 

[00:03:30] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. No way. 

[00:03:31] Penny Fitzgerald: Super fun. Yeah. And I, I had a team of about 600 or so women across the country doing the same thing.

We were all, you know, doing wine tastings in people's homes. And- What? ... um, the company shut down at the end of 2023. 

[00:03:47] Jillian Johnson: What? 

[00:03:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:03:49] Jillian Johnson: That's crazy. 

[00:03:51] Penny Fitzgerald: I know. Well, why did it- It was such a shock ... 

[00:03:53] Jillian Johnson: why did it shut down? 

[00:03:55] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, lots of different reasons. Like COVID hit, you know, [00:04:00] and we were, we were doing these in-home wine tastings, so you, that kind of came to a stop.

Mm. But we pivoted, so we were doing Zoom wine tastings and doing some more corporate things, like doing happy hours for- companies bringing people together and- Yeah ... uh, sharing a fun event over wine. But, um, yeah, I think it just k- one thing kind of layered on another where, you know, people didn't wanna go into homes again, and 

there was so much uncertainty after the pandemic of is it safe now? Right. And when is it safe, and- I know ... how do I structure it, and you know, all of that. 

[00:04:35] Jillian Johnson: I know. 

[00:04:36] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh. Yeah, I think we could have made it go, but I, I think the, the, um, the head of the company too kind of wanted to go a different direction, and that was more profitable for him and 

the board- Mm-hmm ... of directors 

[00:04:49] Jillian Johnson: Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah That sounds like such a fun even- fun, fun job.

[00:04:53] Penny Fitzgerald: It was very fun. Yeah. Super fun. But that's, that's kinda when I decided, you know what? I wanna keep a lot of this fun [00:05:00] going. I wanna figure out how to keep supporting women. 

[00:05:05] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:06] Penny Fitzgerald: So I've been doing some coaching of women, especially- Okay ... you know, in that, um, entrepreneurial space. So people who are- Okay

you know, looking for systems to be more efficient and to serve more people and to have a greater impact, so doing some of that, but mainly been focusing on, um, a yearly retreat I hold called Wine Camp. 

[00:05:27] Jillian Johnson: What? No way. Yeah. That's awesome. Where do you guys 

[00:05:31] Penny Fitzgerald: go? So fun. Um, different locations every year. This'll be the third year.

Um, this year we're going to, um, the Finger Lakes region of New York. 

[00:05:40] Jillian Johnson: Oh. So yeah. I didn't know there was wine up there. 

[00:05:42] Penny Fitzgerald: I know. So y- I mean, everybody's kinda heard of Napa, Sonoma. Yeah. A lot of people have been to some of those more famous wine regions, but I wanted to kind of introduce people... Well, a couple different things.

I wanted to introduce people to new wine regions in the country, and I also wanted [00:06:00] to elevate women in the industry who are m- you know, paving the way, and then also have this community of women to get together once a year and just have a girls' retreat. 

[00:06:12] Jillian Johnson: Oh my gosh. 

[00:06:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Wine brings people together.

[00:06:15] Jillian Johnson: For sure. For sure. I'm like, any... Yeah. I'm like, "Hmm, I'm just so happy I'm not pregnant anymore-" Yes. "... now that I can drink wine." I'm like, "That was terrible." Um- 

[00:06:27] Penny Fitzgerald: D- was this your first? 

[00:06:28] Jillian Johnson: It was, yeah. Oh, 

[00:06:30] Penny Fitzgerald: wow. 

[00:06:30] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, but she's a good baby. Yeah. Oh. She's four months old now, and- Oh, that's so 

[00:06:35] Penny Fitzgerald: cool ... 

[00:06:36] Jillian Johnson: we're having a blast.

Yeah. 

[00:06:38] Penny Fitzgerald: That's so, that's amazing. Congratulations. 

[00:06:40] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. They won't let her on the golf course, which I think is stupid but besides that. I know. 

[00:06:46] Penny Fitzgerald: Really? 

[00:06:47] Jillian Johnson: I know. I think it's a liability thing. I'm like, "I will sign every waiver you need." 

[00:06:51] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah. 

[00:06:53] Jillian Johnson: They won't let her out on the course with us, but 

[00:06:55] Penny Fitzgerald: You know, I was... I golfed yesterday morning, and there were two [00:07:00] dads out there separately- Mm-hmm

with one had a baby in a, you know, like the car seat in the golf cart. Mm-hmm. And then the other guy ha- I know her, his daughter must've been, put her, seven or eight. Yeah. And she had her little clubs with her. It was so cute. Aw, that's so cute. Yeah. 

[00:07:20] Jillian Johnson: But yeah. 

[00:07:21] Penny Fitzgerald: How fun. 

[00:07:22] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. We'll get there.

[00:07:25] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, so tell m- tell me how you started LEGS? 'Cause you, you're a, also in, have, have a corporate sales job, right? 

[00:07:34] Jillian Johnson: I used to, yeah. 

[00:07:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Used to. Okay. 

[00:07:36] Jillian Johnson: I, I used to be in the exciting world of employee benefits consulting.

So most things that people would just snooze over, like benefits packages, 401ks, that's what I did. Mm-hmm. Wow. I would work with companies, HR, CFOs, to build out their package or improve their package. [00:08:00] Um, while I was doing that, I started doing it, and then I was also caddying at TPC Sawgrass. And- Wow ... I think I was the first female caddy.

So I would work during the week, caddy on the weekends. I did that for an amount of time until I think I, my mental health suffered, where I'm like, "I need a day off." Like, I can't just work every day of the week. Oh, yeah. But my boss was like, "Hey, you love golf. Um, I wanna take you down to South Florida, meet one of my business partners that only does business on the golf course.

I think you could learn from him." And it's, he had this group called Six Degrees. It was kind of like BNI, but on the golf course. Okay. Huh. Um, where it was, like, very, you know, you could only have one marketing person, one insurance person. Oh, 

[00:08:46] Penny Fitzgerald: okay. 

[00:08:46] Jillian Johnson: You know, and it was all, like, kinda referral based. Uh, but I came back to Jacksonville, and I just felt that there wasn't anything available for [00:09:00] what I envisioned women wanted.

Like, I feel like women- Mm ... had to fit into the tradition of golf that was created by men. But I just felt like just because it's done that way doesn't mean we can't do it different, and I really just felt what women wanted. Like, they wanted a more casual environment, like a nine-hole scramble, not 18 holes, play your own ball.

They wanted to play after work, 'cause these are busy women, not 7:00 AM, you know, on a Friday- Mm-hmm ... and take the whole day off. 'Cause I think that a lot of women still felt that they needed to be seen at the office to be, like, for people to know that they're working hard, you know? Or, uh- Yeah ... women kind of, um...

I was in a presentation yesterday, and it was the first female mayor in Salt Lake, and she said she read, you know, this campaigning book, and it was like, a man can bring their child with them on the campaign trail and he's seen [00:10:00] as a hero. But a woman can't bring... If a woman brings her child on the campaign, then she didn't plan A, B, C, or D, you know?

And, and it looks- Yeah ... badly. And, and that's unfortunate But I think that was a part of it too. Have it after work so women don't feel the guilt of leaving work- Yeah ... even though we're trying to get them to realize that it's, it's, it's gonna benefit you 100 times more. I mean, I got my last four jobs on the golf course, and I can't tell you how many- Yeah

rejections I got from, like, an Indeed application or some- Oh ... just, like, throwing a random resume. And so I think golf is powerful for women, and that's kind of what started it was A sticker and a flyer and an idea, um- Oh my 

[00:10:48] Penny Fitzgerald: gosh ... 

[00:10:48] Jillian Johnson: that was in 2018, and then it was just kind of year after year just kind of chipped away at it.

It started growing where our first event in Jacksonville I think had eight women, [00:11:00] and I think we got events up to 75 women, and- Wow. And I was just having so much fun where I would wake up every Monday and I'm like, "I know I need to do my job job, but all I wanna do is race." And, and, you know, had mentors that said, you know, "You could take this national," and of course you're thinking, "No way," you know.

[00:11:22] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. "

[00:11:22] Jillian Johnson: I've got a job with a 401and benefits." Like, I, I, I can't, I can't do that. But, um, ultimately got a job that paid three times my previous salary, and so- Wow ... in my mind I'm like, bingo, like I will- Good 

[00:11:38] Penny Fitzgerald: for you. 

[00:11:39] Jillian Johnson: I will take, I will save, I will still live the way I live, save a year's worth of salary, jump off a cliff, and go for it, 'cause, you know, you, you eventually get the confidence in yourself where you're like, "I'm working really hard for somebody else's dream- Mm-hmm

goal, vision. Like, I wonder what would happen if I worked this hard on [00:12:00] my own dream, goal, vision. And worst case, I can always go back to insurance. I just really don't want to, so- Exactly ... let's make this happen. 

[00:12:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:12:08] Jillian Johnson: So a lot of, uh, learning lessons along the way. I think I could write- Mm-hmm ... a book on what not to do.

Um, a lot of, you know, moments of excitement, you know, where you're like, "Oh, wow, yeah, we've got over 1,000 women across the country in- 

[00:12:26] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm ... 

[00:12:26] Jillian Johnson: 28 locations." Okay, you should maybe pause for a second and give yourself a pat on the back. Like, you're not doing- Like, I know you like to focus on maybe what you're doing wrong or what could be doing better, but, like, take a moment to s- like, say, "This is awesome.

This is cool." So. 

[00:12:42] Penny Fitzgerald: It is awesome. 

[00:12:43] Jillian Johnson: So that's how it started. Um- 

[00:12:46] Penny Fitzgerald: I love that. 

[00:12:47] Jillian Johnson: Um- 

[00:12:48] Penny Fitzgerald: You know, I f- I feel like women are, we're collaborative, so that whole model of, okay, only one of these, one of those can be in the group, it's just, that sets up a [00:13:00] competitive patriarchal system. 

[00:13:03] Jillian Johnson: Yes, and, like, a scarcity system too- Yes

where 

[00:13:07] Penny Fitzgerald: it's 

[00:13:08] Jillian Johnson: like there is an abundance of success- Exactly ... out there. 

[00:13:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Yep. 

[00:13:12] Jillian Johnson: And people are going to work with people that they like, and you would wanna work with people that you like too. So knowing that there is not just a limited amount of success, and if you have success, then I'm not successful, you know?

Yeah. It's just not- True 

[00:13:29] Penny Fitzgerald: That's not the way it works, 

[00:13:30] Jillian Johnson: no. No. No, yeah. And I'm like- Not long-term ... inclusive. Yeah. The more the merrier. I don't want anybody to feel excluded on the golf course 'cause they already have, you know, for the, since the beginning of time. So we wanted LEGS to be an open space for all women to feel welcome and, and encouraged and uplifted and empowered and, and to really get whatever they need out of the golf course.

Because I kind of think like [00:14:00] Like golf course and money are kind of simple, like s- or similar, you know, where you can make a lot of money, but it's all about what you do with it or how you use it. 

[00:14:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Right. 

[00:14:13] Jillian Johnson: And I feel like- Yeah ... same thing with a golf course. Like, sometimes you show up and you need it to be your therapist.

You had, like, a really rough day, or sometimes you show up and you need it to just kinda be a metaphor or, like, a learning lesson or, or maybe to build some humility Or, or connection. So I think, um, that's just what I want the golf course to be for women. Like, we're not trying to create pro golfers or lower your handicap or make it super competitive.

It's like we just want to expose women to this amazing, magical tool that can bring them maybe more of what they're looking for in life. 

[00:14:54] Penny Fitzgerald: I love that. I've, I've heard, um, money compared to rain, [00:15:00] too, uh, and I feel like it fits 'cause it's, it's like, y- you know, if you have a garden and r- rain falls on the garden, it grows.

If it falls on weeds, it grows. You know? Mm-hmm. It can magnify whatever it touches- It, 

[00:15:13] Jillian Johnson: yeah ... 

[00:15:14] Penny Fitzgerald: based on what, you know, what, what the intent is- 

[00:15:17] Jillian Johnson: Yeah, 'cause I think, um- ... and what's 

[00:15:18] Penny Fitzgerald: already there ... 

[00:15:20] Jillian Johnson: like, I think I had an interesting relationship with money, you know, where I, I used to believe, you know, if you wanna make money, you're greedy.

But I realize, I'm like, well, the more money I make, the more money I can give. Yeah. And that's a big part of what LEGS does. You know, since the beginning of time, we've donated 10% of our revenue to local nonprofits. Oh, 

[00:15:40] Penny Fitzgerald: nice. 

[00:15:41] Jillian Johnson: So I do agree, where it's like, if you're a good person, that money will be used for good.

[00:15:46] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:15:46] Jillian Johnson: Um- 

[00:15:46] Penny Fitzgerald: Yep. 

[00:15:47] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Love that. And I love the connections that it creates, too, 'cause, you know, some of these women, most of these women, you wouldn't meet- 

[00:15:56] Jillian Johnson: Mm-mm ... 

[00:15:56] Penny Fitzgerald: in your area except for this- Mm-hmm ... you know, to bring us [00:16:00] together. 

[00:16:00] Jillian Johnson: Right. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I don't know if you're newer to Sarasota, but moved to Jacksonville, knew one person.

Moved to Salt Lake- ... knew, you know, a couple people, and, and LEGS has been a great way... you know, even last night, tried to go out golfing, you know, with some women that were, like, random women I reached out to on LinkedIn, and now we're going on golf trips and we're best friends. Oh, 

[00:16:24] Penny Fitzgerald: fun. 

[00:16:25] Jillian Johnson: All ages, all- Love that

you know, all different walks of life. Mm-hmm. And I do think that- Golf is the unifier where you could be 25, you could be 65, you could be, like, have so many things not in common- Yeah ... but you go golf together, and I just feel like it's such a bonding experience. Like, I know in my career, anyone that I golf with, say for example I needed to ask a favor, like, "Hey, I'm trying to raise money for this nonprofit that I'm passionate [00:17:00] about."

If I'd golfed with them, I could have e- I could easily just say- Oh, 

[00:17:03] Penny Fitzgerald: sure ... "

[00:17:04] Jillian Johnson: Hey Randy, what you doing? What you doing on February 24th? I need you to..." Like, this is an amazing, you know, but it's like other people that I didn't golf with, I, I couldn't just call them and say- Yeah ... "Hey." I think it's kinda like playing in the play bo- like the sandbox together, you know?

Like- 

[00:17:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:17:22] Jillian Johnson: it's like the adult version of play- ... which I feel like is, like, uh, like not, you know, thought of as valuable in adulthood. 

[00:17:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. But like- Oh ... we, 

[00:17:34] Jillian Johnson: we're just big little kids walking around- ... pretending to be serious adults, where I feel like- Yeah ... we, we need that outlet more than ever. 

[00:17:44] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. We push that part of us- ourselves down, I feel like.

We, we don't feel like it's worthy to play, but that creativity, I mean, that spurs everything. Oh. When you follow the joy, when you follow the fun- Mm-hmm ... all the other stuff falls into place. 

[00:17:59] Jillian Johnson: [00:18:00] Totally agree. Totally agree. Like- Yeah. Totally ... even, even my mom's like, "You know, having fun is a good quality," or being fun-

you know? Like- 

[00:18:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:18:10] Jillian Johnson: yeah, you don't put it on your resume, but every, every office, you know, needs that fun person, or every- Yeah ... you know, party needs that fun person, where- 

[00:18:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... 

[00:18:21] Jillian Johnson: I think in my 20s I would, you know, you, when you get all these jobs that you, like, they say no, you're like, "What's wrong with me?"

Like, "I, I swear- Yeah ... just give me a chance." And I think, um, yeah, I'm like, if, if that's how I'm remembered when I die is the, the fun person- 

[00:18:38] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, that's a win. 

[00:18:40] Jillian Johnson: That's a win. Yeah. 

[00:18:41] Penny Fitzgerald: That's a legacy, yeah. 

[00:18:42] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Not like, "She was really good at those reports, and- Yeah ... really good at Excel." Who cares? She, yeah, it's like nobody's talks about that at your funeral.

[00:18:52] Penny Fitzgerald: No. 

[00:18:54] Jillian Johnson: That- But we, but we get so focused on it. 

[00:18:55] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. Yeah. That's, that's the stuff that doesn't matter [00:19:00] 10 years or sometimes even 10 minutes from now. Yeah. Yeah. But the way you make people feel, like everyone just wants to feel s- uh, seen, heard, understood. 

[00:19:10] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:11] Penny Fitzgerald: You know, if you can make, if you can bring somebody fun and have them bring, have a little bit more joy in their life- Yeah

that's a win. 

[00:19:17] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Especially, I mean, mental health is a huge passion- Mm ... of mine, you know? Mm. Where I think, um, this loneliness epidemic and the isolation is just so... And then, you know, and then we're scrolling on social media. Mm. We're, like we're not getting out there and, you know, the connections I think is, with women especially, you know, they say, I guess they say women need to have, like, a girls' night every 22 days for their- Ooh, love that

for their health. 'Cause like, I guess when you have a women's night, it- Uh-huh ... releases oxytocin and all the good hormones. Oh. So it combats, you know, [00:20:00] all the cortisol and bad hormones that we're battling every day. So I'm like- Mm ... just another reason, if you don't go to LEGS, go to LEGS for your girls' night.

[00:20:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. 

[00:20:11] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Love that. Well, and the idea of not having to be- an excellent golfer. Or, I mean, there are so many people that are just getting started 

[00:20:22] Jillian Johnson: Oh, for sure. I mean, that's where LEGS thrives is being the training wheels for the women that say, "Oh, I don't golf. Oh, I can't golf. Oh, I suck at golf." "I am super nervous to get out there."

We kind of create like a manufactured amazing experience of golf, where typically, like if you were to go out as a beginner, you'd be hitting the ball like maybe 12 times, whiffing the ball, you know, and like around maybe people that aren't as understanding. Maybe you have guys behind you and you feel rushed, and then it's like, just like a bad [00:21:00] experience where- Yeah

majority of our events, they, we have like the last few tee times, so we don't have guys behind you. We play a scramble format, meaning, you know, or like b- best ball. Best 

[00:21:13] Penny Fitzgerald: ball. Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:14] Jillian Johnson: Yes. Where you hit, you know, it's more of a team collaboration effort. It's hands-on learning. Um, and yeah, I just think uh, we're not really designed for that serious golfer.

Yeah. Unless you're that serious golfer that wants to give back, you know? That's like- Hmm. 

[00:21:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:21:39] Jillian Johnson: I was lucky enough that my dad said, "Hey, you should golf," and I listened, so I have- ... this knowledge, but having that compassion for those women that are maybe in their 30s, 40s, 50s, never had that opportunity to learn.

So being, being that kind of service mentality, then that's- Yeah ... where we get [00:22:00] the collegiate golfers that love LEGS 'cause they feel good about giving back, and they're not as concerned, you know, about the next competition or lowering their handicap or anything like that. 

[00:22:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:10] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:11] Penny Fitzgerald: How, how did you start golfing?

Tell, tell us a little bit about your- Yeah ... journey there. 

[00:22:17] Jillian Johnson: Um, well I'm 5'4", and so I think my dad saw the writing on the wall where like- ... you know, I think the cool sports back then were volleyball, basketball, soccer, you know, so that's kinda what I ... In junior high I, you know, I was like a mediocre athletic girl, more of like the hype girl on the sidelines than the one making all the goals.

Just kind of running around pretending like I knew what I was doing. And, um, you know, my dad didn't start golfing until I think after college, and he just, he loves it. And so he framed it in a way where he was like, "You could play JV volleyball and have some coach telling you to dig, or you could play varsity golf.

You could play for the rest of your [00:23:00] life. Um, oh, and you could beat the boys." And I think it was that one that- ... oh. Yeah, I think it wa- Sold ... I wanna beat the boys. And so it kind of became our thing, you know, where like I think especially when you're like 16 years old, I'm sure it's hard for dads to like- 

[00:23:16] Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm

[00:23:16] Jillian Johnson: like have something in common with their daughter. And so me and him would just be on the course. I think the first time he took me out, I took seven practice swings, and my dad was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." "Well, nope. Nope. You can be really, really good and slow, but you can't be bad and slow." And so he taught me, you know-

kind of from the beginning like, like you gotta be quick, and, and I think that's my only advice to beginner golfers is like- If you're quick and good vibes, nobody will care what your score is. 

[00:23:47] Penny Fitzgerald: That's a really good point. Yeah. 

[00:23:50] Jillian Johnson: Like the- Yeah ... kind of what you said, they'll remember how you made them feel.

Mm-hmm. But they're not, they're not looking if you got a seven or an eight or, you know, like they're- Yeah ... they're concerned if they [00:24:00] got a seven and an eight or an eight. 

[00:24:01] Penny Fitzgerald: Right, right. 

[00:24:02] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:24:02] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Most people don't... I mean, we, we are so concerned in general about what other people think. Right. And most people don't think about us 

[00:24:12] Jillian Johnson: at 

[00:24:12] Penny Fitzgerald: all.

[00:24:13] Jillian Johnson: No. No. I was listening to a podcast yesterday where it was like we all are the main character of our own- Yeah ... movie, and all the people that we care about their opinion of, they're just extras. They don't 

[00:24:27] Penny Fitzgerald: care. 

[00:24:27] Jillian Johnson: They're, they're not even like a supporting role. Like literally- No ... they don't even, they may not even make the credits.

So why are you- Yeah ... so concerned about what other people think? The only person you need to think about, who to care, is the main character or yourself, you know? It's like- 

[00:24:43] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:24:44] Jillian Johnson: you, if you're living to your values, you're doing your best, then- Yep ... then you don't really care what other people think of you.

[00:24:50] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, and those random people, random strangers online who might comment on your post and say something mean- Oh ... who [00:25:00] cares? Are they doing the thing? No. 

[00:25:03] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. No, I think maybe from an early age realize, like, if somebody is being mean to me, it's their own shit, you know? Like- 

[00:25:14] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes ... 

[00:25:15] Jillian Johnson: they have something going on within them.

They maybe feel, you know, some sort of insecurity within themselves, and that's why they have to put that negativity out. So it's like- Exactly ... it makes you have more compassion rather than like- Mm ... "Oh, how mean," you know? I'm like- ... "This is, this is... They got stuff going on. Maybe they-" Yep ... you know, maybe they had somebody die in their family, or maybe they're going through a divorce, or you just never know what people are going through.

You know, that's a really good point, and it's... I, I feel like a lot of us have lost empathy- Mm ... lately. It's just kind of, in general, it's a little bit, um, harder to walk through the world, but- Mm-hmm ... remembering how somebody else might... They might have something going on. Maybe that's why they're being a jerk.

Maybe that's why- Yeah ... you know. That's hard to- Right ... keep in mind sometimes. Yeah. I feel like the lack of empathy is from lack of connection, you know? 

I do think that before you can make an opinion [00:26:00] of

something, you need to know somebody. You need to know somebody who works at that place before you say. So I, I do think- Mm ... that we're lacking that connection to have that ability to put yourself in their shoes, which gives you the empathy.

[00:26:36] Penny Fitzgerald: That's a really good point. 

[00:26:38] Jillian Johnson: Mm. 

I think that's just it. It's all about perspective. And- 

[00:26:43] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm ... 

[00:26:44] Jillian Johnson: um, I think historically golf has been seen as kind of like a I don't know, luxurious- Mm-hmm ... kind of exclusive environment. And I love seeing the expansion of women [00:27:00] golf in the last five years, and just the accessibility.

I mean, that's what we're all about. It's like how can we make these events as affordable and accessible for the women that, like, assume that golf is really expensive and it's not for me. Mm-hmm. Where it's like, no, I think everybody deserves an opportunity on the golf course if they want. Yeah. Yeah. But we're def- we're definitely in the business of changing people's minds about golf.

[00:27:27] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. Nice. Because 

[00:27:28] Jillian Johnson: a lot of women, they're like, "I hate golf. My uncle, you know, or my husband or this..." I'm like, "Just come to one LEGS event. I guarantee- ... I guarantee you're gonna love it." And, and we see that a lot. I think that's my greatest satisfaction of, like, I can change your mind. I guarantee it. 

[00:27:47] Penny Fitzgerald: I love that.

Yes. 

[00:27:50] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:52] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I started golf, too, for the whole reason of the networking piece of it. Mm. To be [00:28:00] talking with my clients and stuff. I used to be in sales, too, back in my corporate days, and years and years and years ago. 

[00:28:06] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:28:06] Penny Fitzgerald: And I would be... It was in a warehouse, so it was a lot of guys. I think I was one of two women in the plant that, in the facility.

Mm. And my clients, the ones that I was in charge of their happiness 

[00:28:21] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:28:22] Penny Fitzgerald: with our company, they would come in and we'd have our meetings in the evening. The next day, all the guys would go golfing. Mm-hmm. And I was stuck back at the facility making sure everything was running okay. 

[00:28:35] Jillian Johnson: You're like- '

[00:28:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Cause I didn't golf.

[00:28:37] Jillian Johnson: Mm. You're like, "What's up with this?" 

[00:28:38] Penny Fitzgerald: You know? I know. I'm like, "This is not working." 'Cause I mean, they would make decisions out there on the golf course with the guys that were supposed to... You know, they were not the decision-makers or not the ones that were able to make the promise from the company. Mm. 

[00:28:52] Jillian Johnson: Mm.

[00:28:52] Penny Fitzgerald: But yeah, it, those decisions would happen. 

[00:28:56] Jillian Johnson: Oh. 

[00:28:56] Penny Fitzgerald: And then they'd come back and- I didn't [00:29:00] know about it until you know, it was implemented. So I'm like, "Wait, this is not working in any way." 

[00:29:08] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. You're like, "I need to be out there." 

[00:29:10] Penny Fitzgerald: I needed to be out there. Yep, and yeah, that's how I started. I mean, just... I was so bad, Jillian.

It was so awful. We 

[00:29:17] Jillian Johnson: all are so bad when we start, you know? We can't, like, start off looking like- No ... Scottie Scheffler, even though you have that in your mind. You're like, "Well, they- Oh, yeah ... look so easy." 

[00:29:29] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh. 

[00:29:29] Jillian Johnson: Oh. 

[00:29:30] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, and, and it's true of anything. You know, anything you start for the first... You know, you're gonna suck at it for quite a while, you know?

Yeah. If you start something new. 

[00:29:37] Jillian Johnson: 10,000 hours is what they say to master anything. Oh, 

[00:29:41] Penny Fitzgerald: gosh. 

[00:29:41] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Wow. Maybe I shouldn't say that. Wow. Maybe you should edit that out so women don't hear that. That's okay. 

[00:29:46] Penny Fitzgerald: No, that's to master it, so it's okay. Master, 

[00:29:49] Jillian Johnson: yeah. And we're not trying to- You don't have to 

[00:29:50] Penny Fitzgerald: be- 

[00:29:52] Jillian Johnson: great, you know?

I'm like, you just have to enjoy the journey, you know, being outside. So I'm, I'm curious how you [00:30:00] started. You, you were like, "Okay, this isn't working. I need to golf." Uh-huh. How did you get from like, I need to golf, to where you're at now? 

[00:30:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, gosh. 

[00:30:09] Jillian Johnson: Where you're like- 

[00:30:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Um ... "

[00:30:10] Jillian Johnson: Okay, I'll buy clubs." Or what, what, like, what was your first step?

[00:30:14] Penny Fitzgerald: Um, my first step, I think I borrowed a set of clubs to start with. Mm-hmm. There was a tournament through our work, um, with a lot of different clients, a lot of different coworkers, and it was a best shot, a scramble. Mm-hmm. A four-person. Uh-huh. So the pressure was off. Yeah. And, um, I won two prizes that day. 

[00:30:37] Jillian Johnson: Oh, girl.

[00:30:38] Penny Fitzgerald: Shortest drive. And longest putt, and my putt was longer than my drive. 

[00:30:46] Jillian Johnson: Nice. That's amazing. You're like, "I got this. I got this." 

[00:30:51] Penny Fitzgerald: It's just kind of fun. 

[00:30:54] Jillian Johnson: That is so cool. 

[00:30:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah, so I just ... I don't know. I had fun from the start, [00:31:00] and yeah, I was really bad. Um, but I just knew that it was gonna lead to good things.

I knew it was gonna help build relationships, and, um, a very good friend of mine was a pretty good golfer. I mean, not fantastic, but she showed me the ropes, you know, and showed me how to do it. So we went out to the practice range and she would show me, um, you know, how to stand and how to hold the club and- Ooh

do that. And you know, she'd watch me and she'd start giggling, and she said, "Did you used to play softball?" Stepping into the ball. Like, no. And I really, I'm ... I was not an athlete in school. I was a, I was in band. I was a band geek. 

[00:31:38] Jillian Johnson: Nice. Nice. You're like, dang it. Maybe I could've used a little athleticism for this.

But- 

[00:31:43] Penny Fitzgerald: Just a little bit. Well, I ... Turns out I'm ... I don't know. I'm fairly comfortable connecting with the ball most of the time, but it ... I don't know. Oh, yeah. I just didn't ever explore it as a kid. 

[00:31:55] Jillian Johnson: Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, 

[00:31:56] Penny Fitzgerald: you- My mom was all about doing, like, musical things into [00:32:00] later in life, you know? 

[00:32:01] Jillian Johnson: Hey. Well, if you heard me sing versus you sing, you-

would probably what, what you maybe felt like on the golf course for the first time, where- 

[00:32:09] Penny Fitzgerald: Hmm? ... 

[00:32:10] Jillian Johnson: it's, it's not good. It's not good. But people can still sing and enjoy it- Yeah ... even if they're not good. 

[00:32:16] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, golf first, karaoke later. 

[00:32:19] Jillian Johnson: That's right. That's right. 

[00:32:20] Penny Fitzgerald: There we go. It just- It's all about the swing oil or the go juice, you know?

[00:32:26] Jillian Johnson: 100%. Well, I'm like, golf is the only sport where ... Or, like, maybe the only scenario where it's, like, socially okay to drink a drink at, like, 8:00, 9:00 AM. You know? Like, if you wanna have a Bloody Mary on the course or whatever, I'm like- 

[00:32:44] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah ... that's 

[00:32:45] Jillian Johnson: kind of cool, you know? And I've seen some people, they play better if they've had a couple drinks.

[00:32:49] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah. 

[00:32:51] Jillian Johnson: Oh, yeah. Yeah Yeah. Sometimes I'm amazed. I'm like, "I don't even know how you're standing," but you're, you're crushing it. [00:33:00] 

[00:33:02] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah, it's eas- you get out of your head, you know, if you're not completely- It is ... focused. It, you, there's so many- It's all ... thoughts that go through your head when you're trying to play sometimes.

That you just need to take a step back, take a deep breath. 

[00:33:15] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. And just- 

[00:33:16] Penny Fitzgerald: Maybe a shot. 

[00:33:18] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. I do think it- Just ... kinda helps you get into that flow state. 'Cause I, you know, I was with some beginners last night and, you know, they were having trouble with their driver, you know, and they're taking all these little pieces of advice they've got, like- 

[00:33:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh

[00:33:33] Jillian Johnson: okay, grip, stance, shoulder- Uh-huh ... all right, uh, elbow, you know? And I can tell- Yeah ... that it's just like, oh my gosh, this just ... It feels, like, so hard to even get- Mm ... get to that ball, you know? Oh my gosh. Or, uh, like it's not quite automatic, but I feel like, um, golf is so much more mental. I think what I like about golf- Yes

is that everybody who steps on the golf [00:34:00] course kinda has this, like, dumbfounded optimism, you know? Or like- ... everybody who steps out there, they're like, "This is gonna be my day." 'Cause there are days out there that everything clicks. They're so rare. Yeah. I think I could count on one hand the days where, like, my putting was on point, my chipping, my iron, my driver.

But usually- Yep ... it's 

[00:34:19] Penny Fitzgerald: like, 

[00:34:20] Jillian Johnson: well, I was driving well, and now my driving is shit. And I was putting well, and now, like, you know, it's kinda like ... Yep. Um, but I think sharing that optimism and positivity, you know, and that, like, your good game comes from within. And like, I- Yeah ... I, I know that my best rounds are the ones where, like, I haven't added up the score.

I'm just having a really good time, and then before- Mm-hmm ... you know it, I'm like, wait a second, I shot a 74. Or, oh my gosh, I shot a 76. Like, uh, but the ones where you're like, "Okay, if I just, if I just bogey out, I'm gonna shoot a 79." Then you go triple, triple, triple. [00:35:00] Yeah. 'Cause it's like you're not in the moment.

Yeah, 

[00:35:04] Penny Fitzgerald: exactly. You're, 

[00:35:05] Jillian Johnson: you're thinking about the future, the score, or, or, or if you're thinking about, like, oh, that was a terrible shot, so now this is gonna be ... So it really is kind of about mindfulness and being present. 

[00:35:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:17] Jillian Johnson: And, um, yeah. Like, my favorite book that I recommend to anyone, it's called Be A Player.

Mm-hmm. And they break up the, like, pre-shot routine into three different boxes. There's the- 

[00:35:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay ... 

[00:35:32] Jillian Johnson: think, the think box. So that is when you're like, okay, I'm 127 yards out, a little bit of wind in my face. I'm gonna hit, you know, my seven iron, and I'm gonna land it there. So you're really kinda, like, more analytical.

I'm gonna aim here. And then your play box is when you actually stand over the ball and you're swinging, and that's when you're supposed to not have all those analytical thoughts. Oh, yeah. Like, you're supposed to say, "Hey, what a [00:36:00] beautiful day. What if I smiled while I shot?" Or like, you know, just- ... take a deep breath in.

And then the memory box where you take your shot and you learn from it. And so- Um, I think that's a great book 'cause it gives a lot of exercises on how to harness, you know, a, a toolbox of, of staying present while you're out on the golf course. 'Cause I used to have- I love 

[00:36:22] Penny Fitzgerald: that ... 

[00:36:22] Jillian Johnson: crazy blow-up holes, you know, where I'd be like- Mm

"Well, I'm just gonna give up on this hole 'cause that was a bad shot and that was a bad shot." And now I'm more like one shot at a time, like, kind of like- Mm ... Rory McIlroy, where I'm like, "Oh," you know, like, uh, "All right, yeah, that was, I'm in the trees, but let's see if I can make bogey or let's see if I can make par."

Yeah. And kind of, um, I think that's what differentiates, like, really good golfers from, like, not so great golfers is- 

[00:36:50] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:36:51] Jillian Johnson: how they save themselves. Like, my mother-in-law- Yeah ... is a great example. She's my idol. She was a pro in the '80s. Like- 

[00:36:59] Penny Fitzgerald: [00:37:00] Really? 

[00:37:00] Jillian Johnson: She's 76, shoots her age all the time. Um- 

[00:37:03] Penny Fitzgerald: Dang. 

[00:37:04] Jillian Johnson: Yeah, she drives it just as far as I do, you know?

And- 

[00:37:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow ... 

[00:37:08] Jillian Johnson: she, I noticed that didn't matter where she was, she could always save par. So I'm like, "Okay, how can I be like that?" 

[00:37:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. 

[00:37:18] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Um- 

[00:37:19] Penny Fitzgerald: That's amazing. 

[00:37:21] Jillian Johnson: Well- 

[00:37:21] Penny Fitzgerald: Well, just from talking with you, you are next level. 

[00:37:28] Jillian Johnson: I wouldn't say that, no. I'm a very mediocre golfer, but I have- Oh, jeez ... some good days. I have some good days.

Um, I, you know, like- You have 

[00:37:36] Penny Fitzgerald: some good shots. 

[00:37:38] Jillian Johnson: Yeah, yeah. That's all that matters. You remember those. 

[00:37:42] Penny Fitzgerald: You do. Those are the ones that bring you back. 

[00:37:44] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that's the magic that I want women to experience, is that surprise of, wow- Wow, that was good. Like I, the girls- Oh, yeah ... I was playing with last night, one of them chipped in from 40 [00:38:00] yards.

[00:38:00] Penny Fitzgerald: I love that. 

[00:38:01] Jillian Johnson: She's like, "All right, we're ending on that." I'm like, "Yes, we are." Okay. 

[00:38:05] Penny Fitzgerald: You 

[00:38:05] Jillian Johnson: go, 

[00:38:05] Penny Fitzgerald: girl. That reminds me of how bad I was when I first started. I was playing with a, one of the high school golfers locally, and she was really good, and I'm just learning, and I chipped in on number six at our c- at our regular course out here.

Mm-hmm. Chipped in for an 11. 

[00:38:27] Jillian Johnson: Oh, yes. Yes. But it's, but you don't... I mean, so I was playing in a shootout with, uh, the, actually the Minneapolis president, and shootout environments are, like, super nerve-wracking 'cause you have an entire audience, the stakes are high. What 

[00:38:44] Penny Fitzgerald: is that? What I... sh- um, tell us what that means.

[00:38:47] Jillian Johnson: So some tournaments, like, you'll have different flights, and then- Mm-hmm ... so the top players from each flight will go into the shootout. Oh, 

[00:38:55] Penny Fitzgerald: like a tiebreaker kinda thing. 

[00:38:56] Jillian Johnson: Kind of like a, for the- Okay ... ultimate winner [00:39:00] or, um, or the shootout is separate. So in this instance, they take a normal hole, but they have it basically be a par three, so you're hitting from 150 out.

[00:39:10] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh. 

[00:39:10] Jillian Johnson: And, you know, so Betsy hit it in the sand. You know, and Jen didn't make it out of the sand, so then Betsy hit. Betsy didn't make it out of the sand, so Jen had to hit again. And she dunked it. You know, and so some of- Oh ... the ladies were like, "Oh my gosh, you won," 'cause they thought it was for a two, and they're like, "No, that was for a, a four."

But I'm like, "Hey." 

[00:39:31] Penny Fitzgerald: It 

[00:39:31] Jillian Johnson: still felt 

[00:39:31] Penny Fitzgerald: good. 

[00:39:32] Jillian Johnson: The ladies... People who saw that, that was awesome. Because- People will remember that. They won't remember the shots before that. 

[00:39:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Right. Right. 

[00:39:41] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:41] Penny Fitzgerald: Get out of the sand and put it in the hole. 

[00:39:44] Jillian Johnson: Exactly. Exactly. 

[00:39:46] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my gosh. 

[00:39:47] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you had that friend that also helped- Yes

you know, and then that motivation, and then that you had a good experience 'cause so many women are so nervous to go even play in those [00:40:00] charity tournaments that are- Mm-hmm ... a four-man scramble, where I'm like, "Ladies, this is the best first entry into golf." For sure. Nobody cares what you scored, you know?

Yeah. And sometimes they have a, an, an award for, like, the worst score, you know? Yeah. Like, like kinda like a situation- Exactly ... you get an award for the shortest drive, you know? Yeah. So I think, I think that that's a great environment to celebrate both sides, you know? Or just cele- just e- have room for celebration for just being out there.

[00:40:33] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:40:35] Jillian Johnson: And- 

[00:40:35] Penny Fitzgerald: And look at, look at the fun you're having, look at the people you're with, the beautiful day, you're being outside. It's just a fun- Mm-hmm ... experience. 

[00:40:45] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:46] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. And- A lot of good, a lot of good could come from it. 

[00:40:49] Jillian Johnson: And I think more women just wanna see more women out there. I think that's also- Mm-hmm

what sparked it, is, like, when I would go to those tournaments, I'd be like, "Where are the women at?" There'd be 140 men- Yep ... [00:41:00] and there'd be two, maybe four women. I'm like, "This is terrible representation. Can we at least get, like, 10, 20%?" And so that's what I'm passionate about, really. I mean, the reason why I started LEGS is more so my vision of the world.

I'm like, I just wanna see- 

[00:41:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes ... 

[00:41:18] Jillian Johnson: female leaders. I wanna see women be successful. And- Mm-hmm ... I know there's not a direct correlation of golf and success, but they are related. I mean, you know, like, you, you're going... If you're a golfer, you're, you're statistically supposed to make more money. If you're a golfer- Oh, wow

you know, like, you have more networking, s- stronger networking relationships. And- Mm-hmm ... I just know I'm like, I used it where instead of calling these companies saying, "Hey, let's talk about your health insurance." They're hanging up on me. I'll be like, "Hey, I'd love to invite you to this upcoming event," and get them out on the golf [00:42:00] course, and they felt comfortable talking about their problems.

And whatever their problems were, if it was something I could solve, I'd set up a meeting. If it was something I couldn't solve, I'd connect them to somebody else. Mm-hmm. And I don't think you c- you can feel as vulnerable talking about that on a Zoom call with a stranger- Right ... than, I mean, the, some of the vulnerable conversations I've had on the golf course are inc- you know, talking about a brother passing away from- Mm

you know, like, a- an overdose or, or beating cancer, writing a book, or, you know, just, uh, going through a divorce or- 

[00:42:37] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. 

[00:42:38] Jillian Johnson: Like, it, I think it just gives... I mean, I tell women, I'm like, "All right. The round is a four-hour round. Three hours and 30 minutes is talking, 30 minutes is actually hitting the ball." 

[00:42:49] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah.

Right? 

[00:42:50] Jillian Johnson: Right. When else can you have that much face time with somebody you maybe wanna do business with or somebody you wanna get to know? So- 

[00:42:58] Penny Fitzgerald: That's true. And you're [00:43:00] foursome. You're just, you're together all the time, especially if you're in the same cart. 

[00:43:04] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:04] Penny Fitzgerald: You're together- Oh, yeah ... for those four hours.

[00:43:07] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. And if it's, like, a, a slow round, it could be even- Mm-hmm ... more time. 

[00:43:12] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:43:14] Jillian Johnson: I could think- Yeah, 

[00:43:14] Penny Fitzgerald: most of our tournaments here are six. 

[00:43:17] Jillian Johnson: Oh, boy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's when I worked at TPC Sawgrass. It was a six-hour round on the stadium holes. Wow. No, I, I mean, it was, like, a bucket list course, but- Mm

um, yeah, I think I've learned a lot of things, believe it or not, even though I'm, like, women's empowerment, I've learned a lot about how to act on the golf course from my- Mm-hmm ... husband because we met on the golf course, and he was just so courteous. Like, he would, he was always helping other people look for their balls.

You know, he was helping me rake my bunker. He was giving me very liberal gimme shots, you know, very encouraging, and [00:44:00] I'm like, "No wonder why people love you, and no wonder why you- ... use season sales golf so much because you can't not love you after the way you- Mm-hmm ... are on the golf course." So- ... um, you know, I teach women that where it's like you don't have to be so focused about your score because they're not gonna think about that.

But they will. Yeah. They'll, they'll remember if you're out there in the woods looking for a ball with them, so. 

[00:44:25] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:26] Jillian Johnson: So you just- 

[00:44:26] Penny Fitzgerald: Another metaphor for life. Just be a good human. 

[00:44:30] Jillian Johnson: Be a good human, good things will come. 

[00:44:32] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. Be more generous. 

So fun. Okay. 

Can I switch gears on you just a little bit? 

[00:44:37] Jillian Johnson: For sure. 

[00:44:38] Penny Fitzgerald: So golf is super fun. We've been talking about a lot of fun things, but w- what is your favorite cocktail or glass of wine?

[00:44:46] Jillian Johnson: Oh, I am, there's nobody on the planet that loves an Aperol spritz more than me. 

[00:44:54] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, girl. That's one of my favorites too. 

[00:44:58] Jillian Johnson: I mean, like, I don't care if it's winter- Mm ... [00:45:00] I don't care if it's summer. As soon as I had the baby, I had my husband bring an Aperol Spritz into the room. Yes. I celebrated with an Aperol.

I, I was like, "I've been waiting 10 months for this. We're h- we are celebrating with an Aperol Spritz." Let's do this. 

[00:45:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Um- 

[00:45:18] Jillian Johnson: I 

[00:45:19] Penny Fitzgerald: love it ... 

[00:45:19] Jillian Johnson: I love a buttery chardonnay. I love a slightly dirty martini. 

[00:45:25] Penny Fitzgerald: Yes. 

[00:45:26] Jillian Johnson: And I like a spicy margarita. 

[00:45:28] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yes. Oh- Those are my- ... we're gonna get along really good. 

[00:45:33] Jillian Johnson: Those are... Yeah, what are your jams?

Like, what are yours? 

[00:45:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Um, everything you said except buttery chardonnay. I'm not a fan of chardonnay. Okay. But everything else. 

[00:45:41] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:45:41] Penny Fitzgerald: My, I'm kinda going through a, I'm in my Negroni era. 

[00:45:45] Jillian Johnson: Ooh. We are kinda, yeah. 

[00:45:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. I like it. I love an... And, and I love a dirty martini. Mm-hmm. I might, I like mine a little bit more filthy, on the filthy side.

[00:45:55] Jillian Johnson: Oh, yeah. My husband likes it filthy too. Mm-hmm, yeah. Give me a blue cheese [00:46:00] stuffed olive. 

[00:46:00] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yes. 

[00:46:01] Jillian Johnson: Do not order a martini in Utah, though. You will be very disappointed. 

[00:46:06] Penny Fitzgerald: Really? 

[00:46:08] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. '

[00:46:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Cause they have- They don't have that down? 

[00:46:10] Jillian Johnson: They, well, they have to measure out the drinks. It's like a state law. You can only do an ounce and a half of liquor.

Oh, really? So you'll have this giant martini glass. It'll be, like, just like the saddest pour. Oh, 

[00:46:22] Penny Fitzgerald: I'm 

[00:46:23] Jillian Johnson: so sad. So whenever I, whenever I leave the state I'm like, "Give me a martini. You have a martini?" "Yes, it's filled to the brim." "Give me..." Yeah, so. Oh my 

[00:46:31] Penny Fitzgerald: gosh. 

[00:46:32] Jillian Johnson: That's okay. I joke I'm the best bartender in the whole state of Utah.

Just come to my house. I make 'em- ... make good drinks. 

[00:46:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, gosh. Yeah, we are gonna get along really well. 

[00:46:42] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

[00:46:43] Penny Fitzgerald: It's my jam too, yeah. 

[00:46:46] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:46:47] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, well. 

[00:46:48] Jillian Johnson: Every once in a while I'm like, "Maybe you should drink less." But I'm like, "What's the fun in that?" Martinis. I mean, you did th- you did that during pregnancy and you were miserable.

Y- 

[00:46:57] Penny Fitzgerald: you tried it. It didn't work. Let's move [00:47:00] on. Yeah. 

[00:47:01] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:04] Penny Fitzgerald: But you had a good result out of it. 

[00:47:08] Jillian Johnson: Yep, yep. She's a good baby. 

[00:47:11] Penny Fitzgerald: Nice. So, so what's a favorite memory shared with, with friends over a nice drink? 

[00:47:17] Jillian Johnson: Oh, like my favorite memory? 

[00:47:19] Penny Fitzgerald: Yeah. 

[00:47:20] Jillian Johnson: Ooh. I'm... Have you ever heard of type two fun? 

[00:47:26] Penny Fitzgerald: No. 

[00:47:27] Jillian Johnson: So I think that you're, like, the director of type one fun.

Oh. So that could be like going out for dinner and drinks, you know, or like, um, going, just having a good time. Type two fun is where it's absolutely miserable, but then, like, after you're done, you're like, "Oh, that was pretty cool." Like a, like a really hard hike or like a hard- 

[00:47:48] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh ... 

[00:47:49] Jillian Johnson: so I, I like type two fun.

I'm a little psycho. Um, 

[00:47:53] Penny Fitzgerald: and 

[00:47:54] Jillian Johnson: probably my favorite memory, even though it was so [00:48:00] miserable, I did a... I've done a couple bike packing trips where it's like... But I did a month-long bike packing trip from- 

[00:48:08] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, wow ... 

[00:48:09] Jillian Johnson: Moab to Durango, and then, then Durango up to Denver, and I mean, it was... I mean, you're carrying 40 pounds of weight on your bike.

[00:48:20] Penny Fitzgerald: Dang. 

[00:48:21] Jillian Johnson: Sometimes you're biking through sand. Sometimes you're biking through like- Oh, geez ... or like, like all these hoof prints from cows, so you're just like this. Ugh. And then sometimes you're like hike-a-biking, like where hikers are passing you 'cause y- you're hiking over boulders with your freaking bike on your shoulder.

Um- 

[00:48:39] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my 

[00:48:39] Jillian Johnson: God ... I'd say that those memories on my bike were probably my top memories, you know? Just- You wouldn't 

[00:48:49] Penny Fitzgerald: forget those. No. 

[00:48:50] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. You know, when you're- 

[00:48:51] Penny Fitzgerald: Was that with a group of friends? 

[00:48:53] Jillian Johnson: It was just with, uh, one of my friends, um, like who is, was equally as crazy as me, [00:49:00] where I'm like- ... "Kae, you know, like this might be a little vulnerable," but had like a really crazy situation happen where I accidentally left my garage door open and woke up in the middle of the night to a man on top of me-

and a pillow on my face, and literally had to like fight for my life- Oh my God, 

[00:49:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Jillian ... and 

[00:49:24] Jillian Johnson: fight to not be assaulted. Luckily, like I mean, it was so crazy, so crazy. Like luckily, like, um, didn't die, you know, wasn't raped, but, but it was s- it was super traumatic where like- 

[00:49:41] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh, yeah ... he, 

[00:49:41] Jillian Johnson: he got away, you know, and so it was like- this whole time of, like, hoping he gets caught.

Like, finally a month later he got caught. They, they got a match on his DNA on the pillow. They got his DNA on the pillow. Geez. But it was, it was kinda like you- then, like, I literally had, like, one of my biggest [00:50:00] client meetings that next morning, and, like, left the detective at 5:00 in the morning, and, like, at 6:00, um, I had to call one...

'Cause he stole my laptop, he stole my bike. Oh. So I had to call my colleague. I was like, "Hey, Joe. Uh, can I borrow a laptop?" I had, like, scratches on my face, and I had to do, like, three hours of presentations, 'cause, like, I knew nobody else could take it. 

[00:50:23] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my God. 

[00:50:24] Jillian Johnson: So, so then you just, like, you still show up to work, you know.

You're kinda like, "Everything's fine, everything's fine. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good." And then eventually you're like, "I'm not good." I- 

[00:50:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Right ... 

[00:50:36] Jillian Johnson: I was like, I think I told, told my boss. I was like, "I think I just need to be on my bike for a month." So I took, you know, some- 

[00:50:42] Penny Fitzgerald: Okay ... 

[00:50:43] Jillian Johnson: time, and I just... It was kind of like, um, I don't know, that, uh, Rene Zel- not Rene Zelwegger, but maybe it's Into The Wild, where, like, one of the quotes was, like, if you just make the physical pain so much- Mm

you, like, forget about the emotional pain. [00:51:00] So it was kind of for me, like, a healing journey that didn't quite cure it, but it did give me a ton of empathy for trauma. You know? Like, uh- Wow ... like, these, these poor young girls that have had, like, traumatic childhoods. Mm-hmm. And the way it impacts your nervous system.

[00:51:19] Penny Fitzgerald: Um- Oh 

[00:51:20] Jillian Johnson: my 

[00:51:20] Penny Fitzgerald: gosh ... 

[00:51:21] Jillian Johnson: but, you know, like, that, I think, happened, like, on, um, Tuesday, and I think maybe even the next day had a LEGS event. And, like, it was sad, but- So this 

[00:51:33] Penny Fitzgerald: was fairly recently. 

[00:51:34] Jillian Johnson: This was in 2020. So, like, on top of all the- Okay ... 2020 crap that was on- Dang ... on top of it. But the sad part was is, like, in my foursome, every single girl had experienced some experience of, you know, sexual assault.

Whether it was, you know, a friend or family member. You know? So it's, like, um, yeah, the power of vulnerability, the power of shared [00:52:00] experiences. And, um, so that- Wow ... that was probably way too much information that you didn't need to know. 

[00:52:09] Penny Fitzgerald: No, that's- But- That's... I'm just I, I mean, there's so many layers there that we could have a whole episode about- Mm

the trauma that women face on, in different areas, different levels, different, you know- Mm ... magnitudes. But holy cow, to go through something like that, I can't even imagine- 

[00:52:29] Jillian Johnson: It 

[00:52:29] Penny Fitzgerald: was, it- ... that level of insecurity- Oh, man ... or that feeling. 

[00:52:32] Jillian Johnson: Oh, there's definitely some, like I knew my angels, my grandma, my angels were there.

Ooh. You know, like I get goosebumps thinking about 'cause like, like as it was happening, it was kind of slow motion. You're like, "Is this a prank? Is this really happening?" And I just remember like, "Please, God. Please, God, this is not a part of my story. Please, God, no." You know? And- 

[00:52:52] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm. 

[00:52:53] Jillian Johnson: Um, yeah. I, all, the only advice I have for women is go for the eyeballs and go for the balls.[00:53:00] 

Just like- It saved you ... it did, yeah. I was able to get away- Wow ... from that. And so, um, yeah, you just have to believe, you know, you're strong and, um, and luckily, yeah, just had some angels working overtime for me. 

[00:53:17] Penny Fitzgerald: Wow. Oh, gosh, I'm so glad that story has a happy ending. 

[00:53:22] Jillian Johnson: I do, too. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:53:24] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh my God, that's 

[00:53:24] Jillian Johnson: just- I know

so 

[00:53:25] Penny Fitzgerald: much. 

[00:53:26] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. But, but we're, but we're, now I'm back to normal. We're good. And- 

[00:53:31] Penny Fitzgerald: Good ... 

[00:53:32] Jillian Johnson: I truly believe everything happens for a reason and, um, you know, like I think that the universe is a kind universe, and I think the more you believe that, good things will happen to you- Mm-hmm ... rather than being a victim. But, but like I said, it was- Right

a triumphant story where I know that some women ha- didn't, didn't- Yeah ... get that- Don't 

[00:53:57] Penny Fitzgerald: have that happy of a conclusion. [00:54:00] 

[00:54:00] Jillian Johnson: Yep. So having grace for w- people- Mm ... what they've experienced and, and love- Mm-hmm ... 

[00:54:06] Penny Fitzgerald: and 

[00:54:07] Jillian Johnson: that's, uh, that's what I'm about. 

[00:54:09] Penny Fitzgerald: That's awesome. That, and that, that makes the bike trip have so much sense.

[00:54:14] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm, 

[00:54:15] Penny Fitzgerald: mm-hmm. Totally get that. Yeah. A Maya- or a month of just checking out from that trauma- Yeah ... and just- You have to be present when you're trying to climb boulders and go through sand and all of those things. 

[00:54:28] Jillian Johnson: Oh, yeah. Yeah, 'cause ... And the thing is, it teaches you, like on day one, I was in fetal position throwing up on the side of the trail, just like saying like, "Leave me here."

But it teaches you, like you have to keep going. Like you, you- Yeah. There's- ... you have no choice. Like you... And so I think after doing that trip, it brought confidence, 'cause I, like I came back to my desk and I'm like, "Man, has a, has a desk chair never felt so good. I don't wanna see a bike seat for, for a [00:55:00] really long time."

Uh-huh. And it, it made me feel like if I can do that, I can do anything. And I think that's why I want more women on the golf course, 'cause they're like, "Oh, if I can do that, if I can build my confidence here, it can translate-" Mm-hmm ... to, uh, 'cause golf is not easy. Golf is hard. 

[00:55:18] Penny Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:19] Jillian Johnson: And, um, requires patience, humility.

[00:55:22] Penny Fitzgerald: Oh gosh, so much. 

[00:55:24] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. So 

[00:55:25] Penny Fitzgerald: much patience. We don't know what we're capable of. We don't- 

[00:55:29] Jillian Johnson: We 

[00:55:29] Penny Fitzgerald: don't push ourselves typically And, 

[00:55:32] Jillian Johnson: yeah, and it's like we have just this, like, self-doubt that is chasing us around Ugh. It's like why- Yeah ... are you listening to that? Like- Right ... why, why are you listening- It's a load of crap

listening? Like, oh, man, it's like how are you supposed to get anything done with that voice in your head? 

[00:55:47] Penny Fitzgerald: Right. Right. Just flick that baby off. 

[00:55:51] Jillian Johnson: And be like, "Thank you for your opinion, but I'm not going to-" Yes. "... listen to it." 

[00:55:55] Penny Fitzgerald: Yep. 

[00:55:56] Jillian Johnson: Good day. 

[00:55:56] Penny Fitzgerald: Off with you now. 

[00:55:57] Jillian Johnson: Uh-huh. Well, this has [00:56:00] been so fun, and- So 

[00:56:01] Penny Fitzgerald: fun I appreciate, yeah 

I 

[00:56:02] Penny Fitzgerald: appreciate this so much.

[00:56:04] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. We went in a lot of good places. 

[00:56:07] Penny Fitzgerald: We did. 

[00:56:10] Jillian Johnson: And maybe you'll have to- So- ... make a trip to Utah, but BYOB- 

[00:56:13] Penny Fitzgerald: I would be happy to do that, and bring my vodka and gin and ... 

[00:56:17] Jillian Johnson: Mm-hmm. Our basement looks like we're bootlegging, like, because- ... we typically go down to Arizona to Costco, buy all the booze, like I was- Yes. Yeah, so we're a- Road 

[00:56:27] Penny Fitzgerald: trip.

[00:56:28] Jillian Johnson: bunch of golf and bootleggers. Um- No 

[00:56:32] Penny Fitzgerald: judgment here. 

[00:56:34] Jillian Johnson: Yeah. 

[00:56:36] Penny Fitzgerald: Love 

[00:56:36] Jillian Johnson: it. Um- Well, you have a wonderful day. I appreciate the opportunity. 

[00:56:40] Penny Fitzgerald: You too. You too. I w- I'll put everything in the show notes, but, um, for those listening, how can people get in touch with you or f- or learn more about LEGS? 

[00:56:49] Jillian Johnson: So the easiest way is to go to www.LEGS.golf.

If you want to type in ladiesexecutivegolfsociety.com, be my [00:57:00] guest, but to make it easier- ... it's just LEGS.golf. I'd recommend clicking the subscribe button and choosing your location. If you don't see your location, just, um, there's a spot there to send us a note. And for example, I've got a call with Omaha, Nebraska right after this to- Nice

hopefully launch a Omaha chapter. Um, you can follow us on Instagram, Ladies Executive Golf Society, and, uh, feel free to email or text me, jillian@LEGSglobal, or 307-797-2808. 

[00:57:35] Penny Fitzgerald: Fabulous. I'll put all those in the show notes too, so p- if people are listening and while they're driving or something, they can find that info really quickly.

[00:57:43] Jillian Johnson: Perfect. Well- Awesome ... 

[00:57:45] Penny Fitzgerald: thanks. Thank you, Penny Thank you so much, Jillian. 

[00:57:47] Jillian Johnson: Thank you. 

[00:57:47] Penny Fitzgerald: Have 

[00:57:47] Jillian Johnson: a 

[00:57:47] Penny Fitzgerald: great rest of your day. 

[00:57:49] Jillian Johnson: You too. Awesome. Bye. 

​ [00:58:00]