The Dark Truth Behind the New Government UFO Releases - Part One

UFO sightings are generating fresh scrutiny following the release of official government footage. Dr. Simeon Hein examines the evidence.

This Part One of this episode of History's Agenda, titled UFO's Another Look, provides a detailed assessment of contemporary UAP phenomena. Dr. Simeon Hein breaks down the current state of UFO research, moving past the sensationalism often found in mainstream media coverage to focus on what the actual data implies.

Viewers interested in the intersection of government policy and unidentified aerial activity will find this analysis useful. Dr. Simeon Hein offers a grounded perspective on why these government UFO videos are significant and what they might represent in a broader historical context. By examining the patterns within these reports, the discussion clarifies the objective facts currently available.

Subscribe for weekly historical and scientific breakdowns, and comment below with your perspective on these recent UFO sightings.

Transcript

Welcome And Why UFOs Matter

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to History's Agenda. Today we have a special guest with us again, somebody you know if you've been watching our podcast, uh, Dr. Simeon Hine, who has talked to us about many different topics. And today we're gonna talk about UFOs, which is the topic of the day right now. We have all these released by the government showing us the videos. I don't want to say, but I'm gonna say it. What they want us to see, you know, with lack of context and lack of explanation. But anyway, Dr. Hein, welcome back. Hey, Steve, thanks for having me here again today. So I know we've talked about UFOs in the past, and just about, you know, how long have you been looking at at this issue? I know I I just heard you tell a story from a Euro kid. I'm gonna tell you one when I was a kid, kind of similar story. Go ahead.

A Childhood UFO In The Everglades

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, well, I mean, as I've been mentioning recently in some of my interviews, I mean, I had a siding with my mom up in the Everglades in Florida in the 70s, which almost feels like prehistory at this point. A long time ago. Yeah. We're talking like 50 years ago. And uh, I think I was 12, and we saw something. You know, she was a bird watcher and she loved, you know, bird watching in Westchester County. There's so many areas to see good birds along Long Island Sound. We would go all over the area to Rye and Connecticut. She took us down, me just myself, not my brother or dad, to go see bird watching. We were out there in the swamps of Everglades National Park, and it's a big park, Steve, if you've ever been down there. And there was no one else around. All you're seeing are swamps and plains for as far as I could say. I don't think I'd ever seen anything quite like it. I was only like 12.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

It's a horror picture waiting to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Could be. It was you're by yourself out there. And I mean, it was, I just remember the beauty of it, Steve. This vast area. It's it was very different than the metropolitan New York area, you know. And in the 70s back then, and just vast. And my mom was fearless. She would take us hiking anywhere. She called it trail itis. You saw a trail, you got to keep going a little farther down the trail. I think I inherited her trailitis. There's something to that. Yeah, yeah. And so she taught me to really appreciate nature. Steve, she taught me to observe, to look with your eyes. Don't take things for granted. Look at what's around you. She she would go to the schools around Greenberg, and she would give nature walks. She came to our school once when we were in kindergarten, and one of my classmates still remembers when she took us out and took us on a nature walk. So my mom was really good at observing all levels of nature. So imagine we're out there and there's something that appears overhead that in my you know young mindset, what could that be? It looks like the moon. But the moon was on the horizon and she saw it out there and she said, you know, what with no big deal moon. I said, No, mom, it's up up, look at the moon up there. I said, she said, and she pointed her binoculars. She goes, it's a it's a UFO. And she was really paying attention. I mean, this is from someone that had been looking at birds for decades and plants and all this stuff, and all these big objects right above us. And Steve, it was partly amorphous. It's hard to make sense of what it was. To this day, I can't understand what we saw. It looked cloud-like and blurry, but at the same time, with binoculars, it looked like it had structure. And uh it moved instantly as soon as we started to look at it, which is really strange. I mean, you're thinking, did it see us? I mean, why is it? And it moved into a cloud as we put our binoculars on it. But I still remember looking up, and it was uh there was a pattern of dots underneath that really made it look technological at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So and that brings to

A Fireball Over New Jersey

SPEAKER_00 4:07

curiosity. I had a similar thing with my mother, believe it or not, that she was uh she used to look out the window for my dad to come home from a second job. He worked a job in a day back then. I was really little, and he worked a night job too. And in the winter time, from the our top looking out of front of our house, it was up high. You could see miles away car lights as they got off the highway. And it was pretty, you know, people didn't drive at night. I mean, it was in the middle of nowhere where we lived in New Jersey. And one night she's laying in bed waiting for him to come home, and I walk into her room and she goes, What's that? She points out the window. I go over to the window, and there's like it looks like a fireball in the sky traveling across the sky. And I'm like, Mom, I don't know what that is, but it doesn't make sense. I mean, whatever. All of a sudden, it's gone. You see a couple of plane lights around it, it's gone. Now, back then, not far with the, and I heard you mention talk about this too, there were a Nike missile base up on the hill. I'm old, so there were Nike missiles, and and uh they weren't that far away. And and so that area to fly around wasn't too too easy to to happen. So you see the fireball and then it disappears, and now there's planes everywhere. So you say to yourself, my mother even called the police and said, Listen, I saw this in the sky. And for my mother, who was like wouldn't do anything, that was quite a thing. She was very taken back by it. So what what year was that? 60s? Yeah, 68, maybe 67.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

So I I Steve, I I gotta mention one more case like

The Black Triangle Over Mamaroneck

SPEAKER_01 6:04

that. I don't know if you are familiar with this one. This was something I learned about from Dominic, who we both know, who's been on your show. This involved our wrestling coach. Do you know this story? It's Coach Vinny from Edgemont. This is a very important story, Steve. In 1979, the wrestling team saw a black triangular craft a thousand feet over Mamarinic High School on a Saturday at the end of the year. It could have been like Janu, end of December, January 1st, 1979. If the guy's name was Vinny, I've interviewed him on my channel twice, my YouTube channel. I didn't hear about this case until Dominic found out about it around 2020, so just about six years ago. That's how long it takes for these things to come out. This is 40 years. The wrestling coach and about five or six of our classmates in the would have been the 10th or 11th grade saw a black triangular object hovering over Mamarinic High School. Vinny's put it at about, I think he said a thousand feet up. And uh it was enough that he called the police in Mamarinic and they said we're getting other calls about it right now. And there was a they said there's a blackout in the neighboring towns right around Mamarinick, right at this moment, that's coinciding with the object. Wow. And then to make it even more interesting, Vinny said that jets, you know, Vietnam era jets came out of the direction of Connecticut, and the object shot off at again, instantaneous velocity in the direction of New York, New Jersey, as the jets approached. And I re-listened to the interview recently, Steve, because it it's very challenging to get all the details the first time because of the sort of the shock effect of seeing something that no one ever told you was real, right? So he described little lights along the edges, and then it just shoots off at an instantaneous speed, and the jets never catch up to it. That's when he called the police. They said we got other calls. Now, Dominic did more research about this and uncovered. He went, I believe, to the Greenberg Library. Wow. Yeah. And he over, you know, in the Elmsford area, he went to the library. Yep. And he's a huge library, by the way. Yeah, I grew up in that library. Yeah. I spent a lot of time in that library. Mom brought us over to that library all the time. And an architectural marvel, too. Beautiful and great, just a wonderful, a wonderful community library, if there is one, right? He used the microfiche system recently and found the articles. One was in the reporter dispatch, which I used to deliver as a high school kid, and another newspaper, and he found the articles corroborating Vinny's story. Isn't that something? And I can send you the links to the interview. I did two interviews with Vinny about this. Yeah, that'd be great. So you have police corroboration, you have newspaper articles who also talk to the police about this. So, Steve, the interesting thing that Dominic and I talked about this, this is several years before the Hudson Valley Triangle is making its big appearances up and down the Hudson, Taconic Parkway, that whole area, right? In the 80s, that started to be a bigger thing, and there were sightings where huge numbers of cars would stop along the highways there and see this. I spoke to someone who was a friend of my mom's who saw it uh coming back down um the Taconic one time around if you remember it was around Christmas time, they were coming back from skiing. And he said it was sort of over Westchester Airport, but the weird thing about it, he said it made what we now call a flat turn. It just rotated and turned like a plane. So, I mean, a lot of people saw this. I even remember tell someone telling me one more thing about the area that you know I grew up in where you live, is that I was at a high school reunion a couple of years ago, and the gym coach told me people said, Simeon, what do you do nowadays? I told them about my study of this, these types of subjects, UFOs and related subjects. And the gym coach, who I remembered, who was our gym coach, said I had a sighting of an object over 287, not far from the Elmsford Library. That area, he said, we I pulled over, it was so startling. It was an object hovering over 287. There were other motorists looking. So going back to what you're saying, Steve, is how much of this people are seeing, but they're not reporting because there's no good reporting system, they're not aware of it.

Why Witnesses Stay Silent

SPEAKER_01 11:26

The, you know, speaking as a sociologist, there's ostracism and ridicule that witnesses receive. So there's no real benefit for them to talk about this, right? And they just thought they forget about it. And here, you know, I bring it up at a high school reunion just a couple of years ago, and we find this story from Coach Vinny, the wrestling coach. And then a friend of my mom says, I saw that object, the triangular. We called the police again. You just wonder, is this, you know, in sociology, Steve, we call these hidden events. These are things that people are experiencing, but they're not reporting because they don't see any benefit or they're afraid to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

There's no way to verify it. You know what I mean? That's what you got. Think about just a regular thing. You saw somebody breaking into somebody's house. Unless you know who that person is, or that person's house gets reported, you're not going to say it because everybody's just going to make you look stupid. Right? Because they control the information for whatever reason, political, personal, ego, for whatever reason. I think that's a a common thing.

Secret Tests And Hidden Tech

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I also remember something that I was told by um a United States Air Force officer who was pretty high in a security level. I mean, there were no dates or anything, but he flew F-117s before the Gulf War. If he flew in the Gulf War, and that's how everything became declassified about them, and that that's how the conversation came up. That they would take the F-117s and fly into Canada without any warning to the government, without any warning to the military, and just do it. And then they used to say and then they would say, let's see how they react. Let's see if we get detected, let's see if let's see how they react. Why? Who knows? They probably thought that was some kind of strategic advantage, maybe the military, or maybe they were just looking to have a good time. Here we got these things, we got to fly around here, we might as well start using them. You know, who knows? But you you think of that. I mean, are there things out there that the military are using that are they're not telling us about? Or is there somebody else that have that's using these things to test out how they react, they want to learn about us? You know, think about it in reverse. Think about they're out from another planet and they're coming here. I mean, are they telling their people that we found another planet and we're investigating it? Just like our be our government's not telling us about other people coming here. I mean, so you know, it's it's like you know, one of those movies where there's a top secret thing and nobody knows about it. So, because nobody told anybody, you know, who knows?

What The New Videos Prove

SPEAKER_00 14:31

We know what the answer to that question is, but we all know that through recent events, now they're releasing these old videos and things. Listen, everybody's scratching their head. Maybe the government knows more, maybe they don't, you know, maybe they have other pieces to the puzzle. Maybe a lot of things. So I know you know a lot more about it. I know that you were just at a a rather large conference regarding UFOs, and I know there's all different terms for it, but I think UFO is is the easiest one to say. And I I know you were a speaker there, and I know there were a lot of people that have been investigating this for many years that are so-called qualified to speak on the subject. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about that.

Conference Lessons From Decades Of Research

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Right. Steve, I've been going to these types of UFO conferences since 1997. That's when I learned about remote viewing back in 1996, and there were people who came to learn remote viewing. It was in Atlanta at the Farsight Institute. There were people that showed up there for classes that were like the types of people you're talking about who had the inside information. And they knew something about remote viewing, but because it had been a special access program, they wanted to find out more what is this all about. And these were people from NASA, people that had worked with NASA, people in the space shuttle program and so forth. I got curious again in the subject, because, you know, as I mentioned, I had that sighting as a kid, but I hadn't really pursued the subject very much. I mean, it's not like going through academia, there were a lot of places to have any contact with the subject matter. It simply wasn't discussed, even at the University of Arizona where I went, big astrophysics program, a lot of public lectures you could the public could go to about astronomy, astrophysics, fascinating stuff. No one ever mentioned anything remotely like what we're talking about. But I did start going to conferences and I have encountered a lot of witnesses over the decades with very similar types of experiences, either personally or with the extent to which the government wants to cover up the subject. So from a couple different angles, it's always very interesting. It's interesting to hear from people who've experienced something, who've had a or some other close encounter. And then it's very interesting to talk to people who are retired from the military who want to tell you what they saw, people that worked at these different Air Force bases and so forth. And Steve, I'm going to tell you there are a lot of witnesses out there. We haven't even begun to hear just the the the most of it. I mean, it it we're getting the tip of the iceberg here. These these these videos that they're releasing, some people call them disclosure dots, because that's all you see on the screen is a dot moving around. And I don't know what that is. And you don't nobody knows what that is without context. They're not telling us very much about when it was filmed, what what did the pilots experience at the time? Did they have any psychic effects in the cockpit? Did they see anything happening, you know, electromagnetically to their instruments? And Jacques Vallet, the famous UFO researcher who was Jay Allen Heinek's research assistant,

Disclosure Dots Need Real Context

SPEAKER_01 18:06

and is featured. I think he had a cameo appearance in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Right. And we now we have a new Spielberg movie, which I just saw yesterday, which gets into these issues, Steve. I don't know if you've seen that film, but it's exactly. This is exactly what it's about. How many layers are there? Spielberg's movie is fictional, but he put real actual events in UFO history into the film, which I no one, I mean, I someone did their research there because these are real crashes or encounters. I especially appreciated him putting the Nixon Gleason event in Homestead Air Force Base in there, which you've probably heard about. But Jacques Vallet at the conference, Contact and Desert, made a very good point. I think you can agree with this, Steve. Without any context, those videos don't really tell us very much. You need to have layers of research around deciding what, you know, interviews with witnesses, who filmed that, what did they see? If you just release these videos without any context, it doesn't really tell us very much. Now, it's better than nothing, and it does, you know, it tells us that the government is saying to us, finally, in my interpretation, we really don't know what these are, and we're going to show them to you because our president has this directive to create transparency with regard to the UFO phenomena. So we're releasing something, we don't know what it is, and we just want to show it to you, the public. And at least they're not laughing at it anymore, and they're not ridiculing witnesses, and they're not putting them into mental institutions like they did to some of the Roswell witnesses and reporters and people in the town who wanted to talk about it. They're not using the control methods of the past to silence witnesses. They're actually saying, we don't know what these are. Maybe you can figure it out. So I think that's a step forward. But I think the Spielberg movie, Disclosure Day, shows us how much farther we have to go. There is 79 years of history, roughly, around this topic. Thousands and thousands of witnesses. I've talked to many of these witnesses, and it's a big story, and we're really just scratching the surface by releasing a few documents.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Right. So on this podcast, we talk about these things that we have to kind of figure out ourselves from the government. But as I watch this movie or Close Encounters is another one that he did a great job with going through and and and and talking about things. But this one definitely relates to some more facts than we know, and it kind of leaves you hanging at the end, though it did remind me of a Twilight Zone episode. I was waiting for her to say it's a cookbook when she came to the microphone, but just as a joke, it would have been good. But I I kind of look at it like this.

Slow Drip Disclosure Through Culture

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So when you have a child, and that's the way the government thinks of the masses, the demos, the democracy, the the the rabble of the world, what do you do? Well, you don't say here's the here's how you figure out the the world. You say, Okay, I'm gonna teach you addition. Two plus two is four. Now I'm gonna teach you multiplication a year later, two years later. Now I'm gonna teach you division, and I'm gonna teach you algebra and calculus. I was a physics major originally. And now we're gonna teach I was gonna try to be an astronomer, but I died a quick death. And on and on and on, and now you have all the information. You can figure out the answers to some questions. Or at least you can figure out the right questions. And I think the government does that to us. I think I truly believe, and and everyone's gonna think I'm crazy, you may not, that in some ways the government uses these directors to make movies to kind of like prep us for these issues.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Yeah. Steve, there's actually some evidence for that. I I heard a lecture about Hollywood making UFO movies over the decades, and there are people from the military that come to the studio and tell you what you're allowed to show and what you're not allowed to show. And the carrot is if you cooperate with them, they're gonna give you resources to help make the movie, some extra tanks and jeeps and things like this. But there have been stories over the years of very mysterious people that showed up at the movie studios and got in contact with the directors and influenced the film. So that that could be what is going on, but there's another side to it, which I think Disclosure Day brings out. To me, as a remote viewing instructor, someone who's been involved with the subject, there could be influence from the other side on our ability to talk about this subject. And I think that's revealed, you know, pretty strongly in Emily Blunt's character in the film, right? Which is that, and people have said this for a long time, Steve. There's a third party here, which is the visitors. Whoever and wherever they're from. I don't know exactly where they're from. We that's a big topic. Uh, it will take us weeks to go through that. But you would think they could be from many places. They could be from it, Steve. The answer to your question is it could be all of the above, because our minds like things to be simple, but we know it's a big universe. It's a really big universe, and there could be all the answer, could be A, B, C, E, all of the above in our multiple choice test quest, you know, quest uh test here, because they could, whoever they are, if we accept that there's and I think that's what this release, we had the third release last Friday of documents under this Trump

Grusch Claims And Nonhuman Categories

SPEAKER_01 24:26

initiative. I'm not sure if it's a signed formal executive order, but people are taking it seriously in Washington. There was even a Fortune 500 company that came forward with their documents. Was it Dow on Friday? Said we're releasing what we have, if they are. That uh there isn't this other intelligence. People have different beliefs on what it is, whatever this is that shows us these objects that we see, the flying saucers, the flying discs, the black triangles, the sentient orbs, which came up at the press conference last week when David Grush, remember his reporter asks him, You saw that, Steve, right? He said, How many types of ETs is the U.S. government aware of? I was that really shocked me to hear that an answer to that question without giggles, because we've had that question come up many times in presidential, you know, when press the press secretaries are answering questions and they just kind of giggle about it. And David Grush, I mean, he's not, doesn't work for the executive branch, as a former Air Force official. He said, Well, there's several. I actually heard it as the word seven, but I listened to it again. I had a the mic I was listening to was said several, from corporeal bipeds to sentient plasmas. And this is someone that used to brief the president of the United States, worked for National Geospatial Agency NGO and National Reconnaissance Office, Steve, which, as you're you might be aware, it was even illegal a couple decades ago to even mention their existence. You could, yes, federal officials who knew about this organization could be charged even for mentioning their name. He worked for an NGA and NRO, briefed presidents, and he's telling us there are several species. You got to multiply that probably by a hundred at least, or a thousand, because as you're saying, they start out with the addition and then subtraction, and next year you get to multiple. Yeah, that's how it starts. So I think there's multiple layers here of information. And on one level, it's our own government releasing something, and we know that our president likes to be the center of attention all the time. It's this sort of narcissistic streak. But that could really serve this disclosure process because nothing is going to get attention like this subject. And I think that this is something that's going to be with us now for into the foreseeable future. Is this subject has been opened up? It's been shown to be real by the release of these videos and by statements. David Brush could not say those things if he didn't have permission. He's already said he's signed NDAs. He can't show us where the craft is. He can only talk to Congress in those SCIFs, those secure informational facilities, you know, where classified programs are talking about.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Yeah, they have no problem arresting you and putting you in a dark room for the rest of your life. There's lots of them hidden all over the place.

NDAs And Crash Retrieval Claims

SPEAKER_01 27:34

No, and Steve, I have talked to I've talked to four people that have this level of information. One of them I put in my book, Black Swan Ghosts, Phil, who worked for an aerospace company. He's the only one that allowed me to use his name, who said, I don't care anymore. I'm I don't care what they're gonna do. I'm just gonna tell you what I know without revealing anything that could be too specific. And he said that NASA has a black budget side that looks at crash retrieved materials and sends them off to he said to what I used to work for, an aerospace contractor. And the groups of us would assemble over these pieces, this is what it looks like in reality, and try to determine how they worked. And each group gets a separate component of the craft. This is according to Phil Catalano, and he's public about this, and he said, I don't care anymore. He's the only one who's gone that far to say to me, I'm just gonna tell the truth without mentioning anything that could damage national security. He wouldn't tell me who he worked for, but he said, that's how it works in the U.S. The government parcels out pieces of these craft to aerospace companies, then teams of those people without necessarily knowing about the other team are set work on just one component. And you know what all the people I've spoken to who've been involved in these programs tell me? They can't figure out how it works. I know we hear rumors that they reverse engineered it. I'm told by people who've actually handled these materials that it's too far advanced and they haven't made very much progress. Maybe they've made some. Maybe, you know, like we're told like the leading edge of the B-2 bomber has those electrostatic charges to give it additional lift. Okay, those sort of electrostatic types of properties of the electromagnetic field have been known about since Maxwell in the 1880s. So this is not like new information, but we're talking about really new stuff. I've spoken to these people, Steve. I'm just saying this because you know what they all tell me at the end, besides Phil, he was the only one. I'll get to the point in my conversation with them, and it'd be like you getting information from a witness. They're gonna clam up at some point because they're afraid of the consequences of saying anything more to you. And I'm sure you've seen this in person. This is what I get with these people, and I don't have the legal authority that you might have as a judge or another capacity to get people to testify. They will say, just what you said. Literally what you said. They said, I signed an NDA. I mean, they'll be talking to me, and it's great. I'm saying, wow, and you hit a wall, and they'll say, I signed an MDA with the federal government. If I tell you any more, they could they could sue me back to the stone ages. If I hid in the deepest depths of Siberia, they would find me. This is literally what one witness told it. So that is a pretty high level of potential, you know, punishment, like you're saying. If they taught they have signed NDAs, David Grush has signed NDAs. So that's what we're up against. People that want to talk and they're afraid. They're afraid.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

But I mean, throughout time when we've had top secrets, even when we talk about the Manhattan Project, the the thought was always to split the parts up so nobody themselves would know how to build the bomb. Right. So I mean which was a waste of time, obviously. They realized the best way to do it was if speed is of the essence that everybody's in one place and then they can use each other's brain. But you know, it it's it's hard, it's hard to keep a secret. And you know what? Nobody everybody says if you wanna you wanna you you don't want to keep a secret, tell somebody in the government, well, you know what? Some things they're really good at because they have made the public think that people that talk out are crazy. And they've done a good job at that misinformation. Listen, they do it during fighting world wars, right? They that's the that's the thing they're good they're great at. Of course, when there's people that release massive amounts of documents about what's going on, you want to talk about the Pentagon Papers. I mean, no one, I don't think you could ever get anybody to believe that the presidents of the United States and everyone that was involved was involved in a Vietnam War that they didn't think they could win, and had known that since Truman. And and to think that, I don't think the American public would believe it, even if it was true. If it wasn't in black and white about what people knew and what they didn't know in the Pentagon Papers, so it's a similar kind of kind of thing. They've done such a great job with the American public that they can't really believe the truth sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

They have.

Roswell Intimidation And Memory Control

SPEAKER_01 34:16

I mean, the military came around there and threatened them, and they threatened children. And they used most heavy-handed approach. I mean, they took, I had forgotten this. They took the rancher that found the wreckage, Mac Burzell at the Foster Ranch, this huge 75,000-acre ranch. I forgot that he had been held without food and water for five days on the base until he recanted his story. And they marched him around the town when he recant, and he went to everyone and said, I just saw a weather balloon. I made, I was wrong. They marched him around. And people were committed to mental institutions, not because anything was wrong with them, because they wanted to discredit them and just make them look kooky. So you can use what people are forgetting who think secrets can't be kept, is you can intimidate witnesses to the point where they're gonna be really afraid to talk about it. It's gonna change their memories of the events, especially children. You come up going to children and say, if you ever say anything about what you saw, some of the kids had seen pieces because their dads were firefighters or something, brought in pieces of the memory metal. If you ever say anything about this, we're gonna take you out to the desert and your whole family and your bodies will never be found. Can you imagine saying that to 10-year-olds? I mean, that's almost you could almost say it's like a war crime because the U.S. military doesn't have authority over civilians, U.S. civilians under ordinary peacetime circumstances without some sort of declaration of martial law. So you can keep these secrets just by threatening witnesses.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

It's also that the the at that time the premise was unbelievable that there was a a spaceship coming, unless you were watching science fiction movies. It's funny when you talked about the pressure to change movies. You know, as we know, the earth stood still. It used to have a different ending, you know, and and the and the government forced them to change the ending. What was that?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

I don't know that story, Steve. What what what how did they change the ending of that movie?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

The ending was a more forceful thing where Claude II took on the American military and basically handed it to them, and they basically said, listen, you're gonna do what we say or else. That's a brief way of putting it. And and they didn't want that out there. You know, and I I I don't think and I and I think the um obviously the robot is one thing. I I think the alien also survived and he didn't he didn't die in the way that they made him die and they came up with this kind of thing. So it's interesting that you know things

When Systems Crack And Collapse

SPEAKER_00 37:23

change.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

But the thing is, Steve, governments can fall apart too, in the long run. I mean, I worked in Steve, I worked in Austria in 1989 at an international research institute, ESA, international uh applied, International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis, and it was a joint East-West venture that Brezhnev and Nixon had set up to try to create some area where the Soviet Union and the U.S. could work together. They had this idea the Cold War would end and how we're gonna end science. We're gonna work together on science, climate science, that's kind of neutral, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:03

The same thing that got Kennedy killed to do a joint mission to the moon, right? So good.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Well, in this particular case, I worked with Soviet scientists who were my age, you know, I was in my 20s back then, and East German scientists, these are very smart people, and it was a lot of fun to hear their perspectives on some of the stuff I was interested in. And no one would have thought in 89 that East Germany was going to cease to exist by December of 1989, right? And this is just in June, July, August. So this is for two, three months. Yeah, it's a long stretch there over at Schloss-Laxenberg in South Vienna area. And that system ceased to exist because it was so repressive, no one wanted to really be there unless you were like these guys, sort of top of the food chain, and you were in with the good with the Communist Party and you liked your life. But a lot of people really didn't. And as soon as they had a chance to go over that wall, Steve, if you'll remember, and that summer night in 89, they didn't have enough guards to keep all those people in. They had to let them through because so many people amassed. They went, and and Steve, this is an interesting point. They amassed along the wall, the East Germans that night, because of a rumor from an Italian radio station that was false that the guards were letting people through to visit their relatives, maybe one night out of the year. People heard this and they rushed to the wall, and all of a sudden you had like thousands, tens of thousands of people. I don't know how many was, and there weren't enough guards to control the situation, and they had to open up the doors, the checkpoints. And that was the end of East Germany. So, you know, anyone who's familiar with any modicum history would understand this. If you hold back the forces of change too long, eventually becomes like a flood, you know, like you're putting your finger into the dike, and the water is going to explode when you take your finger. This could be slowly happening with this subject. Just in my experience, there's so many people who have had some contact with it. I just mentioned at the beginning of the show, just from my high school alone, that I didn't hear about for a long time. So I think there's a kind of momentum effect, and we have to look at the possibility that eventually governments have to change or they can collapse. Uh, I'm not suggesting that's going to happen here in the U.S., but I'm just saying maybe it's not as monolithic as it seems until the day it changes.

Trump Era Politics And Disclosure Pressure

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah, but you know, in our world, especially when it comes to the executive branch, the world collapses every four years, right? It either gets renewed or a new president comes in, he does all different things. And obviously, no one foresees Donald Trump being this unicorn that he is, and to come in and get elected, first of all, because no one's ever been elected like him before. And and maybe it it part of that shows the rebellion of the American people to know the truth about certain things.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I agree with you, Steve. I think that's exactly what it shows. There is some level of frustration with our bureaucratic institutions. I think you see this also with his pick for health secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr. You know, with this suspicion about vaccines and water fluorid artificial water fluoridation and a whole bunch of other subjects where people are really questioning the science here, but the government bureaucracies have taken a monolithic approach saying this is the only way that's going to work, we're going to do this to your water, so forth. I'm not saying that in necessarily that anyone totally knows the exact science of all that. It's just that people don't like being told what to do unless you really give them a good reason. And they don't like, after decades of monolithic government policy, not being able to have their input into that. And I think it builds up. And so I think, yeah, in in Trump's case, there is this feeling that the system isn't serving people. And we're going to put a maverick in the White House. If you don't do something about this, we're just going to elect people like Donald Trump to just start taking, you know, smash, literally smashing down some of the bills. I was in DC not too long ago for this screening of that movie Paranormal Bigfoot, a flash of beauty. And I got to walk around the White House and see that demolition of what was it? The the East Wing, is it the ballroom there?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah, so I mean, literally taking a sledgehammer to some of the but I think Well you think about you think about the difference. You talk about Kennedy. Kennedy, people think he's crazy. He was a law professor in my school where I went to law school, and I've been around him a lot. And I can't say he's not crazy. He started the River Keepers, agree with it and I agree with it. Cleaned up the Hudson, create all these things. He made changes. So I, you know, I don't think he's crazy. I mean, he may have a different belief than anybody. Some things, like everyone in the world, some things I believe, some things you don't. I mean, I I I I think it's amazing that the Secretary of War or Defense or whatever the heck they call it now has a tattoo of the Knight's Templar on his chest. Uh I mean, just the The the the differences of of what he's he's done i is is very is I don't know transparent. It's whatever whether he knowingly does it while people are telling him to do it. I mean, certainly he's had some conversations with the King of England that haven't gone the way he wanted them to go. When he went there and changed his policies or whatever it is, whether he got a message from the powers that be from the king or whatever, things are different. So I mean they certainly tried to kill him enough times. Something different is definitely going on with him as president, and I'm not saying and and I know there's a lot of crap, and I'm not saying that's not crap, you know, but you know, being a non-traditional politician and an egomaniac at the same time is an interesting combination.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Very interesting and unpredictable things can come out of that. And whatever you think about him or his policies all across the board, no one has done this much for UFO disclosure. And he he said coming in to office, it's not my thing. Interview. He said, It's it's not my thing. I'm just not into it. But someone around him is telling him he needs to address it. I don't know if it's Marco Rubio or some of his other cabinet, right? But there are people around him who said, Look, you need some help with the ratings right now. Or maybe historically this is a good time to bring the subject open. We had the 2017 New York Times article by Leslie Keene and the other authors. Whatever reason, someone there feels like it's time to bring this forward. And it's become his sort of issue because it makes him seem like the Maverick challenging the ancient bureaucracy. And he's saying, I'm with you, the people. I want to know the truth. I'm releasing this. Even though personally he said he wasn't interested in it, and he didn't tell us very much about the New Jersey quote-unquote drones, like he said he was going to do before he was sworn in two Januaries ago. But still, uh, you know, history has its moments and times when no one's in control and things just want to move. And there's enough witnesses, as we've seen, uh, and enough frustration with this issue.

Accountability And Where The Money Goes

SPEAKER_01 46:32

I think the people that in Congress that are talking about UFO disclosure, Steve, they're saying even just from the point of how the money is getting spent, it's a big issue because they're supposed to be in charge of who spends the money in this country or what program. They're supposed to know everything. And even these classified programs, I believe it's the so-called gang of eight who have the security clearances to know about every program. And they're saying if we don't know about it, then who does? And who's authorizing where the money is spent? So even if you're not interested in the debate of whether these are extraterrestrials or whether they're terrestrial or where let's say it's just like you were saying in the beginning of the show, a lot of government programs that we don't know about. It's an accountability issue that has a ripple effect across all sorts of issues in our country of who's accountable, how's the money spent, what sort of secrets are being being kept illegally from this political process that the way it's supposed to work. So I think nobody knows where this is going, Steve. It's going to kind of take its own path. We don't know what we're going to be shown, but I do agree with what some of the people said at Contact in the Desert, which is we've got these famous historical cases where there are lots of witnesses. And if you want to be transparent about the UFO, now it's called UAP subject matter, you have to address these historical cases going all the way back to Roswell at some point.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

For example, Steve, you remember in the 90s there was an Air Force report about let's just give a little background to the conference, and then you can go into that story.

Contact In The Desert And What’s Next

SPEAKER_00 48:24

So you were a speaker at this conference, and what was it called?

SPEAKER_01 48:29

It's called Contact in the Desert. It's been going for a number of years. And there used to be another big conference that I went to called the uh International UFO Congress. It was held in Laughlin. And I went to that starting around 2000. And then there was another good conference run by Ryan Wood and his father, who's passed away recently, Bob Wood. Bob Wood had worked for McDonnell Douglas, as he said, his entire career. He only had one employer his whole life, McDonnell Douglas. And McDonnell Douglas had their own group to reproduce, reproduce UFO propulsion systems. And Bob said we were tasked to figure out how UFOs worked and see if we could incorporate them into our planes and so forth. Ryan and Bob Wood had created what was called the UFO Crash Conference that was held in Vegas starting in 2002. And I got to go to about six or seven of those. And now Contact in the Contact in the Desert is now the biggest conference. The other two don't exist anymore.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

And they were all famous investigators into this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

I mean, Scott Valet, you had Paul Heinek, who is Jay Allen Heinek's son. And in this particular conference of Contact in the Desert, you had all five of Jay Allen Heinek's kids were there. There was a Jay Allen Heinek family panel, and we got to see slides from that era where we grew up the 60s, 70s of the family slides with Jay with Alan and so forth. Allen, again, for those who don't know, worked for was an astronomer at Northwestern, got picked by the Air Force to work with them, Project Blue Book, and so forth. Right. And so there are a lot of investigators there that you've heard about. And there were more recent people, Tim Gaudilett, the Rear Admiral, who's come forward recently, who says he knows about these classified UFO programs and underwater objects, USOs, as they're called, underwater submerged, unidentified submerged objects, that type of thing. So you have a lot of different people at the conference. They uh because I'm looking into the science behind some of this and science, a paranormal phenomena, overall, they wanted me to talk about that and do a remote viewing workshop as well. But one case that came up, and I think this is something that our government could address right now, since there's a movement towards transparency, just to address these historical cases, we don't just want to see videos taken by our sensor systems in the last 10 years. I mean, we want to see those too if they're unidentified, Steve, right? If they're interesting. And we've seen some, and some of the people say these, you know, some of the ones we heard are have a prosaic explanation, like that image of that missile hitting that object over Iraq and it just keeps moving. I mean, it was called a hellfire missile, whatever the type of missile was. And the object we were told by an expert there who worked, I forgot what her name was, who worked for NGA, that that is definitely a missile hitting a balloon for whatever reason, because there's not a UFO. But we've had government denials of the subject, like was it Colonel Richard Weaver for the Air Force in 94? Remember, they came out with that report, Roswell case closed? Right. So we could have a review of that type of document by some congressional committee. In other words, what has the government told us since the 40s about the subject? And is it something that we can now debunk? Can we debunk these counter explanations as being some sort of very superficial, maybe perhaps a counterintelligence operation, like people thought Arrow was, you know, Sean Kirkpatrick and all that, that it really wasn't an attempt to find out what was going on. It was an attempt to get find out what the witnesses knew and then cover it up, like we've been saying. So I think you could just look at some of the official government publications like the Condon Committee, like Weaver's report, Roswell case closed, where they came out, Stephen said it wasn't a weather balloon. You're right, it was a mogul balloon project, which is equally uh suspicious given that mogul balloons were just ordinary materials listening for Soviet nuclear tests in the 40s and 50s. Yeah, you could go through that and say, if you want transparency, were those real attempts to find out what was going on, or were those just whitewashes? Condon report to saying there's no military significance, it's not worth studying, leave it alone. At the same time, while Condon was putting his report together, you had these missiles going offline in big groups in the northern tier strategic air command bases. I've spoken to people like that guy Gary that I interviewed, who was a missile security guard at Minot Air Force Base, and he saw a very bright object lifting off by one of the silos. They were burnt. The whole side of the Jeep, he said, was burnt, including their M16s inside the Jeep. They had suffered medical injuries from being exposed to this object. The Air Force attempted to hypnotize them as they often do. Steve, what I'm saying here, there's a big story here, just in terms of the government's effort to contain what we know about it over the decades. And I would think any transparency effort would include looking at what the government has told us since the 40s and trying to determine was that a sincere real effort to tell us what could be safely told at the time, or was it just an attempt to push it all back under the rug?

SPEAKER_00 54:18

So that's the end of part one.

Part One Wrap And Part Two Tease

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Stay tuned for part two, it should be released later this week. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. History's agenda.