Go for Donny! Audio Podcast with Bo Stuart Part 1

In this thrilling episode of "Go for Donny!", host Donny McGuire sits down with retired Lieutenant Colonel Bo Stuart, a notable survivalist from Season 4 of "Naked and Afraid". They dive deep into Bo's adventurous journey, highlighting his extraordinary experience in the Army and how it forged a connection between them. Bo shares fascinating insights about his military career, including his time in Special Forces assessment selection, and how he embraced challenges to excel in various scenarios. The episode also touches on Bo's unique cultural experiences while serving abroad, and the unyielding team spirit that thrives within elite forces. Don't miss this captivating conversation packed with stories of grit, resilience, and camaraderie. Tune in to hear Bo's perspective on survival shows and how they stack up to real-life challenges. This episode is a must-listen for fans of adventure, military tales, and inspirational journeys!

Don’t forget to check out Go for Donny! Switch to Channel 2 where we get to ask our guests some more in depth questions that you the listener want answers too.
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Transcript

0:02

Camera for Donny. Go for Donny! Sound for Donny. Go for Donny! Makeup for Donny. Go for Donny! Rupert for Donny. Go for Donny! Grip Department for Donny. Go for Donny! Wardrobe for Donny. Go for Donny! Bo for Donny. Go for Donny! Oh, my gosh. Bo Stuart, ladies and gentlemen. We have Lieutenant Colonel, Retired Lieutenant Colonel Bo Stuart on the show today. Also survivor of Naked and Afraid. I even. What season was that? That was back in 2015. What are you called for? Survivor season 4, season 4, episode 11. Season 4 of Naked and Afraid, episode 11. Beau survived. He didn't only survive. He thrived out in the jungles of Guyana, where we were such a fond memory. So good to see you, dude. Welcome. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you. Glad to be here. No, I'm happy to. Happy to talk about it a little bit. So it's been a while since we've seen each other, so I'm looking forward to catching up and telling some stories. I know it's been 10. Holy shit. It's like 2000. Shoot. 25. Crap, man. It's like, amazing how time flies, you know? But it's the kind of cool thing about what this industry, this circus, this carnival of people, if you will. You know, we do so many projects along the way, we meet so many cool people, and it's all about the connections you make and the connections you keep. And clearly we made a connection. And I think our connection started from the army first because, you know, you're. You're. You're obviously military, and I was in the army, and that helped a better relationship quickly between us because, you know, on. On these shows, on Nick and Afraid, I had to come in and replace someone, by the way. So I came into a crew that's already set up. It's already working really well together, and I have to come in and kind of just morph into this crew and gain the trust of everyone and just kind of show up. And the thing about Naked and Afraid is it's a trust thing. It's like a thing where, you know, we're throwing this couple, this male and female, out into survival environment and saying, trust us. You know, we will guide you. We will show you, you know, where to go. It's up to you to make everything happen to survive. So it's a trusting. So it's hard to get in there and get that trust. But I felt like we, you know, got there pretty quick. Yeah, absolutely. That's when you. When you have a shared background and you immediately have some sort of shared understanding. That. An experience that you have together. And that was fortunate. I was like, this guy's in the Army. I'm like, okay, he's going to get what I'm saying. And, and the references that I'm going to throw out, I knew you were going to pick up, and I knew the other people on the crew were not going to pick those things up. It would be invisible to them. And so that's just, you know, unique thing that you have about, you know, around other soldiers or people who have been a soldier before that they. They come to the. That shared experience. It's. That's such a part of why people, even long after they leave the army of the military, in any branch, they. They tend to clump back together to those. Those same shared experiences with those people. So. Oh, totally, 100%. I mean, I just had another great guy on Billy Dunston. He was a Ranger. He was on a show, Mountain Men. Extremely Marksman, I think was the name of it that we did. And he threw knives, and it was the first time he ever did any competition. But just like you, you know, as soon as we met, I'm like, oh, dude, you're a Ranger Infantry. Oh, I mean, you know, we're bros. And then it's like the instant connection and it's. It's that arc throughout the whole shoot where, you know, you might rib a little. I guess it's less with. With army than. Than with other branches. Yeah, you know, I'm sure it is with you too, because, you know, it's still a brotherhood, you know, a sisterhood, if you will. But, man, you know, you take the piss out of each other any chance you get. Yeah, yeah, of course. So tell me, so what year did you join? And just give me a brief little, little arc about your. Your military career, because we're going to get into it on switching channel two because there's so much to talk to you about. Yeah, yeah. Give you a little background how I got there. So I grew up as an army brat, so my father was in the army as well. So he commissioned as lieutenant when I was like 7 years old. So I remember exactly all the things that he did, different jobs that he had, all the military posts that we went to. And I was like, this is. I mean, that has a cool job. It's fun. Like, I want to do that. And then, so in high school, I joined rotc and I had a great time, or junior rotc, you know, and I had a great time. I had two great instructors. Both of them were Former Green Berets. And my dad was a Ranger. And for those of you who know, there's a. There's a rivalry between the Rangers and Special Forces soldiers. And so my dad had always talked, you know, derisively about, ah, you didn't want to be a special forces guy, that you got long hair, they're ill disciplined, which, you know, in your high school, you're like, well, that. That stokes my interest even more now that. That says exactly. That's what I want to be. Yeah. And then I had these two great role models who, you know, who encouraged me. They're like, hey, if you enjoy this, you can go to college on the scholarship, an army scholarship. And they had that my first. My freshman year. And they trotted out some. The previous, like, years, people. People who had a scholarship, and they would announce it like, hey, this person is going to the University of Georgia, and this scholarship is worth$110,000. And, like, my eyes are popping. I'm like, damn. At the time, my dad's a captain in the army. He's not making dilly squat, you know? And I was like,$110,000 scholarship. I'm like, you have my attention. Yeah. And then after the presentation, I went to the instructors and I said, hey, I'm really interested in one of these scholarships. Can you tell me more about it? And they were like, absolutely. So they sat down and gave me a list of all the things that I needed to do. They were like, you need a letter in every varsity sport that you can. You need to have a 3.5 GPA or higher. You need to join every school club that you can. And I was like, I'm like, I take a note. So I'm like, okay, okay. And then I. I just went and did everything that they told me. So I let it in four sports in high school. My GPA was good. I joined all the club. I did all the things that they told me, and they were absolutely right. I got a scholarship. And so at that point, you could pick any. Any school in the US that had army rotc. And so I was like, I'm in. So I signed up. I went to college. My first year, I went to the University of Tampa, which. And now I ended up graduating Korea, which was a very unique experience my last two years. So we were at Fort Benning, Georgia, for my freshman and sophomore year. Oh, geez. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, yeah, no, it was awesome. It was completely awesome. So I get there in 1987, and we. And I graduate in 89. Well, the Olympics were in 1988 in Seoul and my high school. And so, like, they. They cancel or they delayed the start of school for two weeks so that the students could all experience as many Olympic events as you could. And I, I loved it. I went. I watched baseball. I watched him. I was a huge baseball player, so I watched a whole bunch of baseball games. Jim Abbott, the one armed pitcher, was pitching for the Olympic team. Oh, wow. We saw. I saw a bunch of baseball, basketball, volleyball. Like, it was great. But anyway, yeah, so it was. It was an awesome time to. To be overseas. And that was my first experience to like another culture, to like something completely different. And it's like Negro, the Orient. It's not like going to Mexico. Right. It's a. It's a whole different thing. Like, it's not what kind of culture. Shock we talking, where are you from? But where. Where are you from? So you're coming from Benning, then? Yeah, at the time we were at Benning, but we. I had grown up everywhere we. Before that, we were in Hawaii, and so I grew up three years in Hawaii, but we were mostly in Georgia, so that's where my family is mostly from. So. So Georgia to Korea. Yeah. I can ostensibly say that I'm. That I'm from Georgia and be plausible, but. Yeah. So going from Georgia to Korea was a. I mean, it was. It's. It's culture shock, but not in a bad way and in a good way. Right. Like, we got there and I never. I'll never forget, we got like, immediately we get off the plane and the smell hits you and you're like, oh. I mean, it's. It's pungent. Wow. It's because, you know, they. They fertilize their fields with manure. And that smell is like, it's strong. And the smell of kimchi, the Korean cabbage. Cabbage is everywhere. You can smell everywhere you go. There's no getting around it. And that was new for me. I never. I was like, I didn't grow up on a farm or anything. And so that part was. Was eye opening and then not being able to read, like, because everything's written in hot and gold. So, yeah, things were written in the Latin Alphabet. At least you could. You could make a guess, right? You can look at it and be like, okay, I kind of know what that is. But when you're looking at Korean Hangul as their language, and you look at it, it's indecipherable. Like, it is not. You're looking at it and there's no hint, no clue for you to figure out what, you know, what this place is. Wow. Well, before Google Translate. Yes, absolutely. But, yeah, so. So I graduated there, got the scholarship. I went to the University of Tampa primarily because they had a great brochure because there was no Internet brochure. Yeah, so there was no Internet. So after I got my scholarship, all these schools, smart universities, they get a list of the army scholarship winners for that year, and they send you their brochure trying to convince you to come there because you're a fully funded student. Like, your tuition is being paid by Uncle Sam. So they're. They want you to come to their university. Right. And I, I, you know, Korea is a pretty cold place. And I was like, I was tired of being cold. I'm like, you know what? I want to go to someplace where there's a beach. And so the University of Tampa in Florida and the University of Miami, both those schools, and they still do to this day. If you bring your rotc, ROTC scholarship to the school, they kick in room and board. And I was like, damn. I'm like, this is. Damn, I can go to college for free. I'm like, I'm in. So I sat there and I had the Tampa brochure and the Miami brochure, and I was like, and Tampa, if you've ever been to University of Tampa, they had these, you know, these onion dome shaped buildings on Plant hall, which is the. And it's gorgeous. And I was like, man, that place looks. Looks like turkey or something. You know, it's like, oh, I'm in. I'm going there. So I go to the University of Tampa. I get there and I love it. It's a beautiful spot. I, you know, I did what all freshmen do. I go crazy partying with all my friends. But it was also fairly disciplined because they had a. They had a really good RFC department because everybody who was basically almost everybody in the ROTC program were scholarship winners. So these, all these people were athletes, scholars, they were smart, you know, and so I enjoyed it. But we went to a competition, RTC competition called Ranger Challenge. And it's like a. It's like the art. Oh, yeah. You know, and so. And I was on the team. So we, we go to this competition and we get crushed by north, that's a military school in Georgia. And actually some of my friends from Fort Benning, they. They had gone there, and I knew them, and none of them on the Ranger Challenge team at the time, but we go there and they beat the brakes off us. Like, everybody on that team scored perfect on the PT test. All of them shoot expert. They all, you know, crush the land nav course. And so we came back from that, and I was like, if you can't beat them, join them. I'm like, I'm transferring. I'm going. This year is going to end. And I'm transferring to North Georgia. And that's the school year ended. I transferred, I went to North Georgia, and best decision I ever made because I. I got there and I was only there a couple months. I met my. My future wife. I was a sophomore as a freshman. And so, yeah, so we dated all through college and then graduated, joined the army, and we're still married today. And now we're 27 years in the army. And this is our. This year will be 31 years that we're married this summer. Congratulations. Wait, you're still active duty? No, no, no. I retired in 2020. Oh, that's what I thought. I was like, wait, wait, wait. I thought you retired. Oh, man, that's so awesome. Congratulations. And just from hearing that story tells me about your character, about always wanting to be better and do more. And that's probably why you ended up in Special Forces. Yeah, absolutely. Like, if someone puts a challenge in front of me or something, like, they're, you know, like, hey, this is difficult. It makes me want to do it. I'm like, oh, it's hard. Well, okay, sign me up. I got. I'm in. I want to try Special Forces. I was. I was in the infantry, and it's still this way for officers. You have to do four years in your own branch. And in my case, I was in the infantry. And so I. And then a recruiter came around. Like, literally, they have a recruiting team that goes around and recruits Special Forces soldiers. They came to Fort Drum, which is where I was stationed at the time, and they say, hey, there's going to be a briefing at the post theater about Special Forces. And I'm like, okay, let me go check it out. And so I go see the briefing. And then after I saw the briefing, I was like, oh, I'm in. Like, sign me up. Like, I'm going to do this, you know. So how long after did now I did a. I worked for A company and we did some fun shows back in the day. One that kicked it off was Two Weeks in Hell, which I want to ask you about. And then the others were surviving the cut. That was the name of the show. I think it's a discovery show. Where we had crews that would go in bed with specialty warfare schools. And it was a lot of fun and it was good seeing them, you know, what actually happens in the attrition rate and seeing our crews being able to sometimes keep up with them and a lot of times not, you know, but it's really cool. So going back to two weeks in hell, I mean from what I saw on camera and what our comp, our company documented, I mean, two weeks in hell tell. And that. I'm sorry, let me back up. That's before that's. You have to go through that before you're even admitted. Is that correct? So I'm thinking it's too much. Was that Special Forces, they have altered the path for selection over time. And so when I went it was 20, 28 days. And so it just depends on when you went. If you went some years it was two weeks in hell and in some years it's 28 days. I think they stayed. I think it's back around 28 days right now. But even 14 days is a long time. One day too many, one hour too many. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, so how, how many out of your class made it through? I mean, I don't remember exactly, but I mean the attrition rate was pretty high. I think we probably had almost 500 people. I think we were like 4, 70, 90, somewhere in that range. I think the number kind of sticks in my head and then I think about a maybe a hundred, 100 or so, 110 maybe. I think got selected and moved on. But yeah, it's, it's weird because like I've done a couple really hard things in my, in my life and they're, and they're very different. So like as an infantryman, I was a light infantry man. There's two, two as you know, two flavors of energy. Mechanized and light. And so light infantry man. They tell you in the, the office basic course when you first start, they're like, if you're a light infantryman, they're like, if you don't go to Ranger school, you are signing up to be a second class citizen. Like that. And that's just the way that's how you're going to be treated. You're not going to get the good jobs. That's just the way it is. And so, so I'm like, okay, I got it. And my dad's Rangers. I was going to go anyway, but it just added some, some motivation to be like, hey, if you don't pass this school, you know, you're signing up for the. All you on? Yeah. And I'm like, nope, not, not me. So I go to Ranger school and, and I recycle one phase. I, they don't have this phase anymore. We had desert space back then, but I recycled desert and, but I graduated and, and that was, I was there for, in ranger school for 103 days. Wow. Now you're not getting your nuts kicking all the time, but most of the time you are because there were some cycle breaks and days where they have to give you sleep, like when you're in a parachute jump and stuff. But that was a different kind of suck. It's like a grinding. Like the instructors are trying to make it difficult on you. They're doing things to make it hard because they want people to quit. They want you to show grit and they want you to persevere under these demanding circumstances. And so they're, you know, they're showing up, they're smoking, you're making you do push ups. Hey, these three guys are dead. Now. You got to carry them for, you know, a couple hundred, you know, a couple thousand kilometers. You know, hey, this 3K, you know, you gotta carry a body, which takes a lot of people and someone's gonna carry over here. And it's all stuff. So they're, they're trying to, to make it hard. In Special Forces selection, that is completely the opposite. And it's not that they're helping you, they're not helping you in any way, but they're also not doing anything to make it harder. The way they've designed the course is, the course is hard enough. They don't have to yell at you and smoke you and be like, I do this, do that. With the exception of like a couple hours. And it comes in all the, the clips. I'm sure you filmed it. When we do the log pt, when you're doing it over your head and rolling in the pit and doing push ups and low crawling back and forth, and that's just, they're just doing it, doing a check to see. All right. And then I think very few people quit when we were doing that. But the hardest part about Special Forces assessment selection is that the bulk of the time you're by yourself. So, like, it's pretty simple. And I, looking back, I really love the concept of how they, they run it. So in Ranger School, like, there's instructors there and they're always yelling at you and your formation and they're smoking and stuff. Special portion selection is completely opposite of that. They, they'll come out, they'll make an announcement and they'll say, take all your instructions from the whiteboard. And outside the barracks there's a, a big billboard. So white, you know, whiteboard, whiteboard. And they go out there and they write the instructions on there. And it's like formation, you know, 04 ruck sack, 60 pounds. Weapon. LBE they may list a couple other items and then like, that's it. So like, okay, and so no one comes to wake you up. No one is going to smoke you, whatever. So at, at 04, if that was formation time, the casualty members will come out and, and they'll start giving me instructions. And if anybody's late, like you come out of the barracks, you know, you overslept or you were five minutes late or whatever, they're like, hey, go to. We were in kind of like these quantum huts. They'd be like, go to hut number four. Like, you have just self selected the restructurings you want for. You didn't follow them. You, you obviously don't want to be here. And so they're, they're just gone. And so you learn real quick, like, hey, they ain't around. Like when they give you. They put the trucks on the board. They are serious about it, you know, so then they're like just an example because there's lots of. Everywhere you go in selection, you're carrying a rucksack on your back that has to weigh a certain amount. I think in my class I went in, it's like February, March, and I think our rucksack was £58. And they changed the weight all the time depending on weather conditions or whatever. But I think for us, I distinctly remember £58. But that's dry, right? So you don't get your rucksack£58 with your water in it, because during the day you're going to drink your water and they're, they're going to stop and say, put your ruck sack on that scale. And you put it on there. If your ruck sack is 55 pounds, see you get on the truck and you're going to hut number five or whatever it was, you know, wow, you so. And like, they're not mad at you. No one's yelling at you. There's like, you didn't do it, then you're gone. And I, some people, you could tell, a lot of people were freaked out by that. They were accustomed to being told what to do and yelled at and, and taking motivation from that. Well, here you don't get any of that there's no, like, you're not, like, it's not us against them, it's you against the task. And so, like, sort of the example, like the 04 formation, they would say, all right, candidates, your task is to move along the marked course with the yellow cones until you come to the end of the course marked by a double marked cone. What are your questions? And at first, the people would always ask the same dumbass questions. They'd be like, sergeant, how far is the course? He'd read it again. Your task is to move along the marked course until the end of the course marked by the double mark cones. Someone asked another dumbass question. How much time do we have to do the. To do the course? Your task is to move along the mark course until you come to the end of course. Mark them, don't mark up. What are your questions? Like, okay. And like, for me, I got, I was like, okay, got it. And then the last thing to tell you on every single event, after all the dumb questions, like, do your best. And they mean it, but they mean it in, like a very mature way. It doesn't mean take off at a dead sprint. They didn't, they didn't bring you here to do a dead sprint. So you have to figure out, like, what pace can I sustain at my fitness level? In my experience for this course, that I don't know how long it's going to be, but I know it's going to be more than a couple miles, you know, and so you go, you go do it. And, and that methodology is the same throughout the course. And so that day may have been a road march. The next day is to run like, you know, they put the instructions. Excuse me, you put the instruction up there. And it may be PT Group. It may say, hey, you know, PTS 2 Court Canteen, you know, 06. And it may be a run or it may be an obstacle course or it may be whatever. And they give you the same thing again. They read the instructions to you, do your best on the course, blah, blah, blah. I got it. Like, for me, it was simple. So every day I just went out and did my best. Like, whatever I thought that was going to be for that day. And for me, it was freeing. I was like, I didn't. Yeah, I wasn't worrying about anything. Like, they're. And everything you do, they're assessing you. So there's a. On your side of your pants and on your shirt, there's a white piece of engineer fabric tape with your, your roster number written on It. And so they got a notebook and they're watching you all the time. Like, you know, if you're doing something you're not supposed to or whatever or something that's questionable, they're just writing it down, like, roster number the 1, 2, 3. Sleeping. And when he's not supposed to be asleep, you know, or resting where he's not supposed to be resting, whatever it is. And. And that also freaked all people out because they're like, what are they looking for? What are they? You know? And I was like, I didn't care. I was like, I'm just. I'm gonna be me. I'm gonna do my best. And. And I was. I was really confident that I was gonna make it. I wasn't. There was only one time. I'll tell a story later. But I thought I might not make it because for me, it was very. I was a light infantryman. So running around with a rucksack in the woods doing land, that's what I've been doing for four years. That's what, you know, new to me. Yeah. And. But what they're really judging you on and not in the individual events. So then they bring together the team events. So they make a team, they put people in charge, and then there's a couple times where they'll stress you. So, like in team week is. That's the kicking the balls part. I mean, it's really. It's crushing. So you show up and you kind of know where you are in the course because everybody has been, you know, collecting their own intel on the course, trying to figure out, you know, where it's going to be. And everyone knows there's a week coming where you're just going to do difficult events the whole day. And it runs like this. Typically, you show up at the formation with your rucksack, weapon, everything. You're going to road march, depending on what apparatus you got that day, a certain number of distance, they're going to give you a task. And it may be like, carry a jeep or move a jeep with three wheels, or move these six telephone poles or move these eight boxes, artillery ammunition boxes full of sand, or a down pilot. That's a duffel bag full of sand with a stretcher and some pipes, you know, so. So you'll. You road march there. They put somebody in charge. That person is. Is tasked with coming up with the plan and briefing the team on what we want to do and giving instructions and supervising while you do that task. And so that's when they're really Looking at how do you. How do you work with other people? How do you give instructions and how do you take instructions? Are you. Because somebody has to be in charge. And here there's no rank. Like, I mean, everyone kind of knows. You can look at each other, know what, you know, where they're from. Because no badges. There's no rank, there's no nothing. You're just a candidate. And so they're looking to see how well do you work with others when you're not in charge. Are you. Are you super bossy? You're like, hey, that plan stupid. Change that. Or. Or. And some of that. They want you to do that, right. If. If a team leader is doing something really dumb and it's causing the whole team to suffer and somebody has a solution, they should speak up. And if they don't speak up and this team just continues to do stupid stuff, it looks bad on the people who are there. Because you're like, none of you had the balls to say this was a dumb idea. And then we need to do something different because, like, we had. And this is the. Oddly enough, the event that I almost washed out on. It wasn't just me. It was a whole bunch of us. This is like the last day team weeks, like seven days. And the very last day, we had to carry, I don't know how many. It was like 15 or 20 water cans over a couple thousand meters of a course. Right. And so the guy who was in charge, we were. Almost everybody had to carry the two water cans. You got your weapon slung in your rucksack and everything else. You're carrying these two water cans in your hand. Well, his idea was that we. We would like march kind of. Kind of in unison, not in a parade. But we would. We would all, like, take. Take, you know, slow measure, not slow, but just regular measure. Steps for 100 meters. And then we would set the cans down, you know, take a break. Some of us had one can and some of us had two cans. And you got to kind of figure out that rotation, because actually carrying two hand, two cans is easier than one. Yeah. Because balances out on either side. You can balance, but you're carrying one. It's like, now you're really getting smoked on one side, or you. You fill it up on your. On the back of your rucksack and you're trying to balance it. And anyway, so. But he was going too slow. And all of us, our grip strength was just getting killed because we're. It took so long. We spent so long carrying the can. And I was one of the ones that I was. The instructor came to me and said, if you drop that can one more time, you're. You're out of here. And I was like, son of a. I'm about to get bounced because my grip strength. I can't hold this can anymore. Somebody else had a good idea and said, hey, instead of going. Moving so slow, let's just sprint for 100 meters, set it down, and then let your hands rest and then do it. And then we did that, and then we doubled our speed. Like, wow. Because now you only had to carry the can for, like, 10 seconds. Well, before we were doing that same distance, but it would take a full minute. And so you're holding it as opposed to holding a can for, you know, 10 or 15, whatever it was, you know, and as soon as we did that, like, it picked up, and all we. All of us were like, oh, thank God. This guy had a better idea than, you know, than the guy who. Who came up with the plan. So, yeah, like that. That. And that's what they're looking for. So when the. They're looking for people, that guy, I'm sure, got a pot. Someone was like, hey, this guy spoke up. He saw the problem. He had a better idea. He wasn't afraid to tell the guy, but he wasn't a dick about it. You know, he wasn't, like, cussing him out and saying, hey, you're an idiot. He just gave constructive criticism and said, hey, let's try it this way. And then the whole group benefit. The team leader benefited, the guy who made the suggestion benefited, and we. I benefited because I was. I was the next guy who was going to get balanced because I couldn't carry, you know, the cans for that length of time. So I wish production would. Would. Would adopt that and you run with it and. And collaborate more. Because it seems like when you're on set, you have so many different cogs for that wheel, you know, and when those cogs are really working well together, that wheel, you know, rolls smoothly. But when it doesn't, they don't take that advice and you're just like, you know, well, I guess we're gonna do it your way. It's a, you know, it's a dumbass way to do it. But I really wish they had adopted that way. But, yeah, that would mean they'd have elite people. Yeah, yeah. And that's the difference. This is the part that I love that I am very happy that I chose a career in Special Forces as opposed to the conventional Army. So I'd spent four years in the conventional army doing conventional army stuff. And that kind of feedback, that kind of critique of leadership is not as accepted as it is on a Special Forces unit. It's just. It's much more. It's much more collegial and a team effort. It's not a super rigid structure where, like, you know, this is the only guy who has good ideas and everybody else just shuts up and does what they like. That would, that mentality would not work on Special Forces team because you have these people who are smart, they're independent, they're capable, and you should be listening to their input if you're. If you're a smart leader. But, you know, some people, they. They can't take that. That kind of input. And luckily, Special Fortress community generally. Well, not perfect, but generally, most everybody in that community is really good about that. And that's. It was refreshing. It was. I was like, you know, this is this. It was a breath of fresh air. It was like this. These are the kind of people that I want to be around. And you're being. And it's. It's promoting teamwork. Yes, absolutely. Teamwork. I mean, the other way around, where the conventional army, where you're saying the infantry, it's not really promoting teamwork. They try to say they are, you know, but, you know, it's just such a broken, structured out system. It seems like I. Because I'm thinking back to my time, you know, and in the infantry, and you're right, we had some really not too bright people in the infantry. I mean, I was in the infantry because I was dumbass and didn't take the ASVAB seriously. So I scored pretty low. And they're like, oh, guess what? Know, put those boots on, you can go walk. But I. I do see what you're saying. I mean, it's a different type of leadership. Yeah. Different type of soldier altogether. Yeah, it is. And it has changed a lot since I was there. When I. When I. When I came to Special Forces, I was the youngest guy on the team as. As the team commander. So I'm in charge. I think I was. I was 29 years old when I became a detachment commander, and I had one guy. One. One guy who's within one year of me. One of my medics was. Was 20. He was also 29. He was like six months older than me, six months younger, one or the other. But yeah, so it's. You're like. And. And they're all more Experienced than me. Right. I have. I have four years in the army, most of them, you know, your team sergeant's got 15 years in the Army. He's been doing this gig. And so it's like, hey, you need to do a lot of listening and not as much telling people what to do and learning and figuring out your role. And you have your role like you. But they have. We have very defined roles. These are the things that, you know, the detachment commander, the officer is supposed to be doing. And those guys are going to help you to make sure you do one, because one, it benefits the team and it gets that mission done. But it was much more of a collegial environment than it was in the infantry. And you show up where it's a very strong structured and regimented. And we, we didn't have any inexperienced soldiers. So everybody on an ODA is very experienced. And that. That's different now because of the 18x ray program. And we can talk about that later. But they changed the model for how people get in, and it's because the army has shrunk and the recruiting is harder. And so they came up with a model that let people come in off the street. If they had. I think it's like two years of college. They're 22 years old, and so now you get guys. And the bulk of people on Special Forces team now are very young now. They're very capable, and they have a great training pipeline and they're great dudes, but they're. They're young and there's no getting around that. And that's a different model than the one that, you know, 30 years ago for me, than it is now. But things have to change, and they have to change for a reason. Do you think, man, I remember we were trying to do that show that, um, it's such. It was such a good idea. I thought of something similar, of what they're doing now, that Special Forces show that it's on network tv, they're bringing celebs in. I thought it'd be cool to bring just regular Joes in. You know, those armchair quarterbacks who think that they can do it and bring him in and see how. How they can go. But have you seen that? The Fox show, the Special Forces show, and any thoughts on that, if you have? I. I don't think I have. I generally don't watch those shows because it. It, for me, it's a little bit. It's a little bit silly. I'm like, yeah, it's. Oh, my God, Bo, you would hate it. I mean, I watched it. I have to watch it because I want to know. I want to see if it's any good. And I don't know, I don't want to talk bad. It's. It's not the greatest. Like they put bags over the celebrities heads when they have to move them around into this interrogation room just to talk to them about what's going on. You know, just stuff like that. It's kind of. Yeah, yeah. But my patience for those kind of shows are, are limited, which, well, oddly enough, that's one of the reasons why I, I was attracted naked afraid. I'm like, hey, this is like no one's, no one's giving you instructions. You're not having to do a silly game, nothing. It's like, okay, hey, it's just you against the elements. And I was like, sign me up, you know, I'm getting. Production for Donny. Go for Donny! Locations for Donny. Go for Donny! Tabitha for Donny. Go for Donny!. Hey, Donny. What the hell are they doing?