Offside with Hawes and Maguire
Offside: with Hawes and Maguire is not your typical hockey show. This weekly
45-60 minute show is a potent combination of humour and genuine hockey insights that pushes the envelope.
- Liam is renowned for his photographic memory, lively storytelling, vast hockey knowledge and sometimes over-the-top passion for the game of hockey.
- Chris is known for his unrehearsed humour, contagious laughter and uncanny ability to make even the most serious debates end in boisterous guffaws.
Between the two, there is an infectious enthusiasm and professional chemistry that is evident from the outset. It can only be described as lightning in a bottle.
Offside with Hawes and Maguire
Shooting the Shot with Steve Shutt. Art Ross Trophy debate, and we are down to the Wire.
Huddle up, hockey aficionados! Prepare to embark on a nostalgic tirade, seasoned with the spice of current on-ice escapades. We're not just reminiscing about the good ol' days with hockey legend Steve Shutt; we're dissecting the race for the Art Ross, the strategic nuances of forechecking, and the undeniable unity that spells championship glory. Rolling through Easter traditions, we'll crack open some of the most unforgettable tales from the rink and beyond, with an all-star lineup featuring insights from the titans of the game.
Ever wondered about the behind-the-scenes camaraderie among the giants of hockey? We've got stories that show the lighter side of the Montreal Canadiens, tales of on-ice intuition, and even the post-hockey passions that shape legends like Shutt into the men they are today. Find out how these gladiators of the game adapt to life after the buzzer, from swapping sticks for golf clubs to embracing the smooth jazz that soothes the soul after a grueling match.
And as we raise our sticks to the greats, we spar over who truly deserves the honor of the best to wear number 21. Pour yourself a pint, cozy up, and join us, Hawes and Maguire, as we serve up a hearty slice of hockey heritage, cultural musings, and a toast to the cherished, rough-and-tumble ballet of the ice—where every check, shot, and save writes history. It's not just a podcast; it's a seat at the bar where legends come to life, g'day eh!
it's offside with haas and mcguire ready one, two, three, nice nice welcome to offside with haas and mcguire. I'm haas, I'm mcgu McGuire. Cheers, cheers. So it is, we made it through April Fool's Day. Yeah, it wasn't much. Did you see much? No, I saw a few things. Yeah, you know what? To be honest with you, I think the pranks that go on now. Yeah, did you see the prank they pulled on that bridge in Baltimore? Holy, yeah, it was a few days in at a time, but you know.
Speaker 2:Wow, who had eight seconds in the pool before Chris's first egregious comment?
Speaker 1:Anyhow, okay so, but we had Easter. We had Easter. We had Easter. How was your Easter? Did you have Easter dinner? I went to. We had Easter. How was your Easter? Did you have Easter dinner? I went to the Gunters, oh, did you. Yeah, so did the bunny rabbit come? Well, there was a few bunnies.
Speaker 2:But no, I just drank a pile and had some great food.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what Easter's all about. Really, just drinking a pile. That's what I always looked at it that way Fuck Well, and that's what Easter's all about? Really Just drinking a pile. That's what I always looked at it that way. Fuck the bunny shit. Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. Yeah yeah, oh, that's good.
Speaker 3:How about you?
Speaker 1:Well, grace came up from Florida, so her and her husband were here and we had a nice, just very low key Kristen's home. Yeah, so it was a very low-key thing, yeah, what do you call that Easter? Easter, yeah, right, but it was a busy, kind of a busy weekend, but not Because there was no games on Friday. Really, there was one game, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to think back now.
Speaker 1:Good Friday.
Speaker 2:Good Friday, it was nothing happening, yeah, and then.
Speaker 1:So we had some games on Saturday and we had some games on Sunday, yep, and then last night, and all of this has created the perfect storm in our Hosey Brown trip to Ireland hockey pool.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, have you got an update. I know Rory's dropped off.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, Rory's in sixth place. Chuck is now in seventh place. What? The hell, he's dropped significantly Blades of Stiegel, which is Tim Jones.
Speaker 1:He has dropped to third place and Ziggy's got one and two. He's got number one and two are Dave Zivkovic and I would say in his number one spot, it's a commanding lead. So we'll see what happens over the next eight or nine games. Right, because that's what's left in the season. That's it, baby. I mean, it could be that so we could. I mean, at the end of the day it could be Dave, it could be, you know, but who knows? Right? You know, he seems to think that they're going to rest some of his guys near the end of the season to give them a little bit of a break. Right, and he's got Dreisaitl and McDavid. And my argument to him was there's not a fucking chance. Mcdavid is sitting out. He's going for the Art Rostrovi, he's not fucking sitting out. Neither one of them are sitting out. He's not sitting out and Dreisaitl's not going to sit out, because they're on a line together and there's no way McDavid will allow that.
Speaker 1:Well, they're power play together, they're power play together Okay but there's no way he's going to allow that to happen. No, right, no. So, at the end of the day, I think that he's safe, and because Connor McDavid is just pushing, pushing, pushing, yeah, I think Dave's up. For you know Well, right now, as of last night, what is it? Because there was one point between McKinnon and McDavid.
Speaker 2:There's one point between them Kucherov, between McKinnon and McDavid, there's one point between them. Kucherov and McKinnon are tied at 127 as we tape here, and McDavid's at 126. So he's got a game in hand on Kucherov and two on McKinnon, notwithstanding the fact that he missed a couple games and he played 10 or 12 hurt. It doesn't matter. Here we are and it's just going to be a fantastic race.
Speaker 1:It's going to be a fantastic race. Oh, it's going to be fantastic. It's going to be fantastic At the very end. Who wins? That could actually be the determining factor in our hockey pool.
Speaker 2:Very much so.
Speaker 1:I guess right.
Speaker 2:So that's exciting too. I mean, there's been three ties in NHL history in terms of points and the Art Ross Trophy is awarded to so three. There's been three in NHL history right now, I only know of one, which is the Wayne Gretzky, marcel Dion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, that was the second one. Okay, that was the same. So what was the first one?
Speaker 2:the first one was um Andy Bathgate and Bobby Hall. Okay, in 1962 Art Ross went to Bobby because it goes to goal scoring after. So Conor's three because McKinnon and Kucherov both have significantly more goals right than Conor McG goals than Conor McDavid. Conor McGregor isn't he. Listen.
Speaker 1:I know you want some throwdowns in hockey, but Jesus man.
Speaker 2:That just came out so naturally. But you know, I mean, obviously it fits, but yeah, so goals to goal scoring is the first criteria to break the tie. So what was number three? Three is Eric Lindros and Yermer Jagger. Oh, really, in the first lockout season in 95. Okay, and Jagger had scored more goals, so he got the Art Ross. They gave Eric the heart, probably almost as a trade-off, but that's happened in NHL history and I could cite the others bore you to death. But I mean, the bottom line is those are the only three ties, right, and the Wayne and Marcel. One is from 1980, 137 points each, and Marcel had outscored Wayne by two goals, so he got the Art Ross. So that's it. So only three. And we could be heading to that. So you?
Speaker 1:know what the message is, kids if you're out there, Be selfish.
Speaker 2:Don't pass the pot. Do you know that? I got to tell you one of the greatest stumpers I was ever and I'll have to clip this somehow, maybe send it to Yvon Cornouille because he's the guy who stumped me but he said, liam, what's the tiebreakers for the Art Ross trophy? And I said, easy, most goals. Yeah, what's the next one? Well, it's, it's uh, games played, fewest games played. Yeah, what's the third one, third tiebreaker. I didn't know, I didn't know what it was. It's crazy. Again, again to your point, what?
Speaker 1:you just said is it wife's maiden name?
Speaker 2:no, no, but it's whoever scored the first goal of the season yeah, I can see that of the season right but what the hell? What if you played before them?
Speaker 2:right, well, you know yeah and you get the art roster. I mean, it hasn't come to that. No, the number one criteria, goal scoring, has settled at the date. But I got stumped on that about 20 years ago, maybe more, maybe 25 years ago, by yvonne cornouille, of all people, and he still brings it up. Well, you know what. So proud of the fact he got me.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what? That's the thing. There's a lot of people who are very proud of that uh thing that they, you know, if they can stump you, yeah, and get a pitcher of beer, yeah, right, you know what I mean? It'll happen, it's very expensive to play hockey in Osgoode. I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:You can get registration for a hundred thousand though.
Speaker 1:Just Okay, but then you got team fees.
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter, doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:Okay, listen, we're not going to start that fucking fight again.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, so, okay. So today let's talk about some things we got. Uh, what do we got on our list? Oh so, I and I and I hate bringing up a toronto maple leaf, I know, okay, you wanted to bring this up because you wanted to discuss that, you know obviously just ignore it because we don't cheer for them.
Speaker 2:We can't actually. Well, we could, we can do anything we want.
Speaker 1:Yes yeah, but but we'll bring up austin matthews and his 60th, 61st, 62nd and yeah, where do you think he's gonna end?
Speaker 2:I don't think he's hitting 70, you don't? No, I don't, I mean I, I don't. Um, he scored a second, so we're taping this. That was a hell of a game last night. I mean they almost blew it. They're up 5-1 going in. Uh, the third panthers make it 5-4 with a minute and a half to go and then Austin gets the second of the game, 17th multi-goal game of the campaign. I mean, the guy's a beast, there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 2:And you know, the interesting thing and even the broadcasts and various broadcasts are picking up on it now is that, right on a comparison basis, he's ahead of Ovivi, where Ovi was at the same time in his career he's ahead of Ovi, which is crazy when you think about it, because he does look like he should be able to to pop a lot of goals here as he as he just reaches in and goes through his prime over these next few years. Notwithstanding the fact they have, they've only been by the first round once since 2004, right which was last year count for no
Speaker 2:no, they, they don't, but I mean it's, it's just like and I saw I saw a couple of um online leaf reporters touch on this topic is that the austin matthews goal scoring title? He's going to win another rocket richard here. He's 10 ahead of um hyman and and um Reinhardt. Is it almost overshadows the fact that the regular season you and I've talked about this multiple times yeah, they're, they're, it's, it's, it's just a uh, uh, you know it's, it's just a walk in the park here come playoff time. And what are you? What are you gonna do in the playoffs?
Speaker 1:for me, big boy, yeah, you know that's it at the end of the. What are you?
Speaker 2:gonna do for us Leafs boy? Yeah, you know that's at the end of the day. What are you going to do for us lees? Yeah, like you know, are you going to go? Are you going to get a deep run with this, with this core, at any point in time? But it did. It did behoove us, I think, to. To acknowledge it, he broke his own record and just just from a statistical point of view, chris, there's only been um 44 well, that's a lot actually. I guess 44 60 goal seasons in nhl history that's a lot actually. I guess 44 60-goal seasons in NHL history that's a good chunk, I suppose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but when you look at it over the 100 years of the game, yeah, right of the NHL.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 107. You know you can say it right. I mean call it 106 because there was no year in 05. So 2005. So you got 106 years in the NHL First 60 okay, so, uh, 2005. So you got 106 years. In the nhl first 60 goal season was actually 76 goal season was phyllis mazzito, right in 1971, so that's 53 years ago. Since somebody scored more than 60, and you know I mean, since then there's been 43 other uh instances of 60 plus scored in a season, of which now austin has two. So what's the?
Speaker 1:the the highest number of goals scored in a season of which now Austin has two. So what's the?
Speaker 2:the the highest number of goals scored in the season, but Wayne's got the top two spots at 82, not 92, not 92 and 87, and then Brad Hall at 86, mario Lemieux at 85, so there's your 80 goal scorers. Right, then you get into your 70 goal scorers, of which you've got eight. Eight separate players have scored 70, so you could see if he were somehow.
Speaker 1:And these are the main players. How many are Wayne Gretzky?
Speaker 2:well, no, eight different players. Oh yeah, other than Gretzky, yeah, uh, yeah, like Wayne. Wayne had three 70 goal seasons, yeah, three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mario had two, he was slacking, yeah, he was slacking yeah well, I love the stat where you know Wayne Gretzky's goal scoring once dropped by 21 goals. Okay, from season to season it dropped by 21 goals, he still ended up with 71 goals. It's just ridiculous. I know it's ridiculous Like you see all the stats, because all the guys like McDavid doing this, or Kucherov was up for a bit, and now McKinnon had the big surge, austin with the goal scoring and the way the guys on, mostly on Twitter. There's a bunch of different stats pages that I follow and they roll it out and they say like since 1991, or since 1995, nobody wants to touch the 80s when Wayne just destroyed the record book right, yeah, I mean he just literally ate it for breakfast and how Wayne was telling the story there.
Speaker 2:I was watching on TNT about a month ago I don't know if you saw it or not, but uh, they do a good broadcast. Those guys are all good. He was on with Talk it and not Talk it, but with uh, uh, I think Chelios and maybe Messier or one of the somebody else, anson Carter, somebody and uh, his, one of his kids had to do a book report and he'd do it on his own. I'd do it on my dad. You know, my dad played in the NHL and did this, did that? He said, well, dad, like what do I put down, you know, like for your records? And we went oh geez, I don't know, son, just put first in everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just love that, I just love that. Anyways, good on. Good on Austin, man, I'll tell you and they did have Riley last like uh, you know, they're missing some guys, they look good, like you know.
Speaker 2:Ryan Reeves was so effective in that first. Did you watch the game I last night? Yeah, I mean, ryan Reeves was so effective. Uh, the way he, his first shift, the body check, he threw the scrum he got involved in. Uh, like you know, um, yeah, umberger whatever his name is there um, he, he came over and and tried to make a physical statement back. But the thing is is someone is going to have to eat that bullet if they're going to allow. If Reeves dresses in the playoffs, that's a whole different dimension. And you know he picked up an assist last night, chris, he actually did not embarrass himself, he looked all right. In fact, he's played better. I think the last 10 or 12 games in the first like 30, that he dressed Right. And you know, even at 37, whatever he is, 36, 37, the guy still is Look DeLorea, whatever he is 36, 37, the guy still is look deloria didn't beat him in that fight. That was best to call a draw. Rempe was probably a draw. Like reeves is still.
Speaker 1:He's not the clear cut number one that he was, but he's still a force out there well, it's still a force, but I mean at the and at the same time you know it's funny we were talking about uh, it wasn't with you, but it was talking about great hockey players, yeah, and and what makes certain players great? And one of the things we were talking about was this kid, sidney Crosby, yeah, oh yeah, Okay, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Is that a segue by you? Yeah, it is. You are getting pretty smooth at this shit, man. I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:But I'll tell you getting pretty smooth at this, but I'll tell you no. So so the thing is, is that he plays a really solid, yeah, four check game. He's not just like waiting out there for the pucks to come to him, no, plays. So we were. We were talking about how he's always like, as a general rule, he's the first man into that zone with that pressure on the d and he never fails, like he's not hammering guys, no, but he never fails to take that man to finish his check, and not in a, in a in a big way, but in just in a ride them out way. Yeah, okay, he never fails to finish his check and he often causes a turnover because of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what, what, when you, when you're taking a look at a player of that you know a caliber, from a scoring perspective, from a passing perspective, you don't think of him in that forecheck perspective. It's not a thing. But literally, we were talking about how it was and I was like, yeah, and then then you, so you go back and you start looking at things and then you go, yeah, you know. So, that being said, they're in a playoff run now. They actually, if they win. If they win a few games, they've got a big one tonight against their rival. Okay, you know, if they win a few more they actually have a potential for that wildcard spot.
Speaker 2:They need to. They need to almost run the table Like they've got it. They can't really afford more than one more loss. They'd have to win out almost outright to make up the difference. I mean, well, you just got to win one at a time that one mile. Play one at a time, one mile and we play one at a time and I guess you're in in in coaching parlance. What you're talking about, crosby is he would be the F1. Yeah, he's the F1.
Speaker 1:He's the F1. He's F1.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's having a superlative year and he just tied a Wayne Gretzky statistic, which is which is, 19 consecutive seasons of averaging a point a game. Wow, Like that's really really impressive shit and and that's not in just men's league not in just men's league.
Speaker 2:No, no, this is. This is Sidney Crosby in the NHL. When you think of everything else that he's done in his NHL career, because he's been a winner at every level, that uh it's. It's what he's done internationally. It goes out saying and he's got his Stanley Cups, he's captain, he's carried the Cups I mean four finals, three cups, you know, caught, smites back to back. I mean everything, let alone that, let alone that what he's done as a scorer. So, yeah, good point by you and and and you know what? Uh, 19 years, point per game. He achieved that because his last game he got three points. He's 82, yeah, so even if he gets shut out, the rest of the way he'll have averaged, uh, the point of game. So hence, so.
Speaker 1:So then next year, very impressive, next year he could break gretzky's rank. He could, yeah, he could. Actually, you know, gretzky's grandchild will have to write about sydney crosby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if, sid could put up 82, and I'll tell you it almost. To me it almost feels like he's motivated by the fact that we've got some some top level international hockey right around the corner the four nations cup next February. I think he'd love to be on team Canada.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, the big one well listen, 26 Olympics as a pick, absolutely I take as a pick today. As a pick today, I would take Crosby and and the reason today.
Speaker 2:The reason for that is because his whole game. It's his whole game.
Speaker 1:It's not like he's the. Do you remember Peter Zezel? Yes, okay, I love Peter Zezel.
Speaker 2:I know he was a Leaf, I know he was a Leaf, he was a lot of guys, he was a. Blue, he was a Flyer.
Speaker 1:Right true.
Speaker 2:He very true, he also was in Youngblood.
Speaker 1:That's right, he was in Youngblood, but he was a great face-off man yeah, phenomenal, and he was on a I forget what team candidate or what team it was, but the reason he was there was for face-offs. That was the only thing. But what was the unfortunate piece is that you're not allowed to kick the puck on the face-off.
Speaker 2:In international hockey. You can't Okay.
Speaker 1:And so he got called for that a couple of times, yeah, okay, because he was a soccer player. He was a soccer guy, so what he would do, he was tight with the guy do the kick. You know what I mean. And we've all used that as a ploy, right yeah, and we've all used that as a ploy, right yeah. But I remember the reason that he was on the team was because of his face-off ability. And then, oops, he can't do what he generally does during the face-off, so he wasn't as good. But my point is that I think that with Sidney Crosby, you've got a guy who can do everything. He can forecheck, he can backcheck. You know what I mean. That with with sydney crosby, you you got a guy who can do everything he could. Oh yeah, he could back check. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:and and can't be a patronage pick, though, like we're talking here today, in april, like, let's see, in january, and by all accounts, it's hard to imagine he's going to fall off a cliff here, right? However, the fine line between these top nations, with or without russia, uh, and we know now, without.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I know, by the way, I think that that's bullshit.
Speaker 2:I think at the end of the day, so do I at this point.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm I'm done with that whole thing. It's this whole sports getting involved.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think the war is ever going to end anyway.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't. It's a proxy war, that there are two sides to every story. I'm not saying that I agree with it. You know what I mean. I think the only thing is as long as they keep making cabbage rolls and pettahat, I'm all right. Okay, but until when that stops, that's when I throw down.
Speaker 3:I hear you, okay.
Speaker 1:So we were talking about the hockey pool and one of the things in the hockey pool is the penalties. You get points for penalties, right, yeah, and so there are a lot of penalties going on out there. Yeah, we didn't put it in this year, but we should for next year if we do this again. Yeah, okay, we should get extra points for suspension. We should, right, yeah, yeah, because there's a lot of suspensions going on. What number are we up to right now? 25? 27. 27.
Speaker 2:We're up to 27. We have tied last year's mark with two weeks to go. Uh-oh, 27 suspensions.
Speaker 1:You had 27 was the over-under, I did, I did. If you had 27 was the over-under, if you recall I did.
Speaker 2:If you recall, I said under yeah you said under I didn't think I thought we'd cruise these last two weeks without anybody doing anything. I called it wrong because Ryan Hartman joined the list for the second time this year.
Speaker 1:So you know maybe what.
Speaker 2:I really meant was number of players.
Speaker 2:Well then we got to ratchet it back even more. That's right, because Tortorella's included in that list as well with his suspension right. So he obviously wasn't a player. But yeah, hartman, uh, one reason I wanted to bring it up, chris, is because two reasons actually. Number one I said I will mention every suspension for the rest of the season just to highlight the fact that people's reaction to Brendan Gallagher nine, nine suspensions ago was totally ludicrous and ridiculous, because there's been nine since and everybody was so up in arms oh Brendan, throw the book at Brendan, it's the most worst thing we've ever seen. Hit Pellick with the elbow, all the crying, all the babies, all the wailing. And now look what's gone on Ryan Hartman, third time suspended in his career, seven times fineded, like the exact thing that some people even maybe a little bit yourself that were crying, that were saying stuff about Brendan you were, I wasn't crying yeah, you yeah, you were now go back and watch the tape go back and watch the tape.
Speaker 2:No, I think it was you were very, very, very emotionally disturbed and upset by Brendan Gallagher and I said, man, wait a week, there's gonna be anotheragher.
Speaker 1:And I said man, wait a week, there's going to be another one. No, no, no. What I said, and if you recall, I didn't think that he would get as many games as he got I was, you know. I thought it was a bad and, frankly, I think he should have had the shit kicked out of him. Well, whatever, whatever, that would be the big one.
Speaker 2:But anyways, the point is the shit kicked out of him. Many times you think that's going to stop him. That doesn't people say kick the shit out of somebody, like no, that stuff has ended. It ended years ago where you could actually seek somebody out for retribution and beat the shit out because of a play you know. It just doesn't happen anymore, hasn't happened in years. And the point is we're at 27 suspensions.
Speaker 2:Hartman throws a stick. Now it wasn't at the official, there was an official in the general vicinity. But my point is it's his second time suspended this year, like for the people, for the fans that really are up in arms. Yeah, I'm having a little bit of fun because I know Brendan was largely an anti-Montreal reaction. That's what it was. So I get that, but that's why through the rest of this season and then I'll shut up about it, but I will continue if, by chance, we have another suspension. To now I will loop it back to Brendan's, because now this is the ninth suspension since Gallagher's, which is exactly what I said. There's going to be one almost every week and there almost has been. And in Hartman's case though, chris, it's his second one this year. Like he slew footed you've played hockey lots.
Speaker 1:I know, I know it's a terrible play the worst thing like you're.
Speaker 2:You're completely vulnerable completely vulnerable and you know the helmets yes, thank god. But I mean, I've gone down that way too and it is just such a terrible play. And he got suspended earlier this year for slew footing to brink at on detroit and here he is now. Okay, I know he's an emotional guy. He's former first round pick, won a gold medal with states world juniors 2013. The guy's a solid player. Solid player. But for the people who are going to freak out on guys, on teams, maybe that you don't like. Don't be such a like. It just makes you look so stupid. If you, if you want to be critical of of how NHL players are reacting on the ice and you want to clean some stuff up, who you want to throw the book at is a guy like Ryan Hartman. He's just been suspended for the second time this year. Where's the lesson? What's what's he learned? He's been fined seven times, chris, like all these suspensions I'm talking about. That doesn't include the fines. There's another 30 fines that have happened this year. So it's a big boy league.
Speaker 1:You put your pants on, fine money goes.
Speaker 2:I want to go to the department of um I go a player emergency, fine emergency yeah, yeah, some guy needs something yeah, yeah, yeah, for example, like poor Joe Murphy and, and you know people like that and many, many in fact, sadly, and and uh, who knows if, if Chris Simon reached out for any of that or not, I have no idea, but I mean it's, it's money that is, um, that is well used by the committee that have overseen it, since, since fines, uh, were, were, were, were first sent in in this nature because, let's be honest, there's some big money going in department of the emergency fund, like Hartman just just 62 grand yeah, 62 000 you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know he's a multi-millionaire, but still, yeah, you know, and my point all that is he just got suspended for the second time this year. So the next time anything happens, let's say it's a Montreal player or a Toronto player, two of the more hated teams, right, certainly in Ottawa, maybe the top two most biggest rivalry. So I hear it here more than anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then, rather than just to be fair, I think Toronto's hated all across this country. That's all across. You know what?
Speaker 2:That's a great point by you. I have to totally agree. So the next time, the next time and I could be guilty of this too let's take a look at the bigger picture. If you really want to make a statement and you're going to go on social media railing against somebody's actions because they're on a team that you hate, take a look at the bigger picture and make sure they're not a Montreal Canadian, or we'll never hear the end of it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's almost over, folks. Two more weeks and then I'll shut up about it. But you know the suspensions just keep on coming. So I'm here to tell you all about them.
Speaker 1:So tonight the Ottawa senators have a a key, a crucial game in their game, in their hunt for a wild card spot.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's pretty good. You almost said that with a straight face, yeah Well you know, there's still a chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you're saying they got a chance. I'm saying they got a chance.
Speaker 1:I'm saying that.
Speaker 2:Well, they're not mathematically eliminated yet. So of course they do have a chance that will evaporate this week Win, lose or draw, as we know. But I mean what a run they're on Again. Well, I mean they're the king of the late season push. There's nobody better.
Speaker 1:Well, because they realize that well, we should actually get our act together, or we're going to get cut. Yeah, we're not going to be here next year, yeah, we don't show it, and they go well, no, he really picked up. At the end of the year it's like yeah, so, which brings me to a conversation okay, well, well, so we'll talk about the fact that they're going to. This is the first big stretch that they've had, big winning streak they've had in a lot in years well, they could go right.
Speaker 2:They, if they. If they went, you'll have posted the show after this game. But in Minnesota, as you just said, that'll be, I believe, six wins in a row, which they have not done since 2017, the year they went to the semifinal. Lost in game seven overtime, kuhn had scored, and I mean that's so. Yeah, by all standards, here, this little run Look what I say to people all the time.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of half kidding there what I said earlier, because at the end of the day, it's an 82 game season. Yeah, if you can win four, five, six, seven games in a row at any time, man, I tip my hat to you. Like you're right, it sucks that this has become their MO. Yeah, you know, basically take themselves right out of it in October and November and then hang around and look available through the all-star break and through the trade deadline, and then a great big push at the end where all the fans go oh my God, next year is a year for sure, for sure. It's here, honey, when's the cottage open? And then they stopped worrying about it until October. Again, that's the Ottawa Senator fan base MO. Now is that the?
Speaker 1:fan base mo is now. Is that the fan base, or is that the team too?
Speaker 2:the players are like you know, it's the fan base I really like those world championships yeah well there should be, there should be three or four guys going, but you know the thing is with with 16 teams. Uh, oh boy, you've got. You've got a lot of people. Unfortunately, so many say no and they don't go, and there's some legit reasons, but there's a lot. Just don't want to travel over there, yeah, but you know so it's. It's, it's a sea tourney at best every year, but oh yeah, but it's a you know what it's fun though.
Speaker 1:Now let me ask you this as you mentioned 16 teams, go that, yeah, that you you pick from 16 teams who don't make the playoffs? Yeah, but um, so there's been a lot of chatter, and you know who's been chattering Elliott Friedman, yeah, has been going on about expanding the playoffs yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and I got to tell you his logic behind it. It holds water. Yeah, it holds water. Refresh my memory. Well, basically he's saying is that listen, other than the audience, you're a gate-driven league? Yeah, it holds water. Let me refresh my memory. Well, basically he's saying is that, first of all, you're a gate-driven league? Yeah, okay, why do you not want to have more games? Right, okay, that's the first thing. The second thing is is that it gives those you know we're now at? You know, only half the league makes the playoffs, right, okay, you know what? If you increase that to 20 teams, at the end of the day, the regular season is a precursor to the playoffs. So maybe the regular season drops down to being 72 games and then you add the playoffs, which is then the run-up to the Cup, you know?
Speaker 1:I mean you get more people when it's the playoffs. You'll get more people in the stands. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Can't argue with that logic. Certainly playoff games would, even though most of the teams in there, attendance is probably pretty solid. Winnipeg's been just an anomaly this year, but they've been better lately. They're going to go in the playoffs here very shortly and they'll probably have good attendance there, but their numbers were down earlier this season. You know there's lots going, lots to talk about the economy there and everything else. I'm not a fan of it, but I do believe it's going to happen. Yeah, I, I do think so because I think sooner rather than later but sooner being probably still a couple years away we're going to go to 34 teams and and it's you're going to have 18 teams out 16 team, and it's they'll do something. The most logical thing to me is you increase because there's four divisions, so every division has those last two teams. The team that would normally be in the last wild card spot, or is they? They play that next team in a, in a best of three or something.
Speaker 2:Two game total, but whatever you want to do yeah, and and that brings four more teams in to have an opportunity to advance by winning the first round. Nobody else is playing, but why don't you have?
Speaker 1:it's not how we have three in a wild card in each division right now well, you know you have the top three, yeah in in your division right and then, and then the wild card in the other two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then it's points regardless of which division you're in. It says points it could be two of the same division, could be no but it has to be in the, in the conference though yes, conference but not the division.
Speaker 1:No, no, so there's two divisions per conference. Right, right, that's. Yeah, sorry that I I miss. Yeah, I knew what I was thinking, I just didn't articulate it okay, go ahead then. So my point is you have the two wild card spots, right. What if they did the exact same thing? But there's four spots per division, yeah, right, yeah. And then the wild cards are still there for the two other teams, or?
Speaker 1:I didn't follow that. So now there's three per each division that get make the playoffs. Well, and three, three wild cards. No, no three. There are three teams. Top three teams in each division make the playoffs.
Speaker 2:You've already got that, though right, no, no, I know that yeah so we just make it the top four teams make the playoffs.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see, right, okay okay, it's a simple adjustment. Yeah, now I prefer the conference. You're going to do it. Do it per conference. So the top eight teams in that conference make the playoffs, okay. And then if you want to have two wild cards beyond that, those become nine and ten. So essentially the top ten make the playoffs.
Speaker 2:Well let's put it this way. Here's one thing I'm pretty certain will not happen. They're not going to add a fifth best of seven round. I don't think so. You're not going to have five potential best of sevens. So whatever the expansion of what they'll have to, no, they don't not. Not if you do it my way, not if you do it the way they're probably going to do it, okay which is they're going to add another team that can compete in a sort of a play-in, just like they do in March.
Speaker 2:Madness, they have play-in games to make the final 64. So that's what they're going to do. They're going to have, I think because you can't, they're not going to do five best of sevens to win the Stanley Cup. It's not going to happen. I don't see it happening. I haven't, I don't think there's any chance of that happening, but I do believe there'll be playoff expansion.
Speaker 1:You're going to have the majority, as you said, there's going to be expansion, okay, yeah, and then you're going to have the majority of teams not making the playoffs no, no, I'm telling you that they will increase the amount of teams competing in the playoffs.
Speaker 2:It's just a format, we're just. It's semantics. Here they're going to add teams to a playoff right, much like they did during the lockout right in 2020 but they had play-ins, they had a play, they had a best of five play-in first, no, not back in the day Four years ago.
Speaker 1:Oh, when it was during the COVID. Yeah, oh yeah, but that doesn't even count as real.
Speaker 2:Well, it doesn't matter. It does, though. It's in the books and Tampa won the Stanley Cups and it is what it is. Yeah, I mean, it's very real. Ask them. I I mean it's, they're going to increase the playoffs. I do believe, but I don't think it's going to be just automatically. First of all. Then how are you going to work? It doesn't work. That mathematically doesn't work. So you have.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't work based on that, but it does work based on if you, if you ramp it up to 20 teams, it, it works in a uh no, because 10 becomes five.
Speaker 2:somebody's not playing like Like you need. What do you mean? Well, how are you doing it with 20? You've got 10 on each side.
Speaker 1:Well, we don't have to have 10 on each side. That's my point, though.
Speaker 2:No, but you've got two conferences.
Speaker 1:Right, so you need the extra round in order to make that happen.
Speaker 2:But somebody's got to not play. Someone's going to get a bye Okay. Someone's going to get a bye, okay, okay. Well, you didn't say that, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:No, no, but I mean now, at the end of the day, your better number, I mean, would be 24. If you're going to increase the thing, then you run out to 24.
Speaker 2:Which is ridiculous to me. 24 out of 32 teams Now we're back to no. I understand that, but it's taking away the credibility of playing the 82 games ability of playing the 82 games, and that's right.
Speaker 1:And make the regular shorter.
Speaker 2:They're not gonna, then the playoffs are longer they're not gonna do that because you've got all the other teams that aren't gonna make the playoffs and lose lose eight games, lose four home games of revenue and aren't gonna have a chance to play maybe they should get better. Well, you know I mean tell, tell that to ottawa well, yeah, I mean it's, it's. Uh, you know they're missing the playoffs.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe they should tell that to Ottawa in fucking September. Yeah, just say listen. By the way, guys, you know what I mean. If you are out of the playoffs in December, you're going home early, you're going home early.
Speaker 2:I predict it'll be the way I suggested, just saying let's see what happens, but it's not going to happen this year. We.
Speaker 1:Let's see what happens, but it's not going to happen this year. We'll see what fucking Bettman has to say. Next time we have a chance to sit down and chat with Gary Bettman Well, if, we could do that. Speaking of sitting down and chatting with Gary Bettman, today we're going to sit down and chat with a Montreal Canadian player who could score Shuddy yeah, steve Shutt, yeah, okay. And so this is what we're going to do we're going to actually jump right now. I decided, I just decided right now.
Speaker 2:I want to shoot in the shot right now.
Speaker 1:We're jumping right to shoot in the shot right now. Brought to you by the Patterson Group of Golf Courses Emerald Links, cloverdale Links and Anderson Links. Yep, okay, thank you, gibb. I love the story near the end. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Steve Schutt Came out of nowhere.
Speaker 1:It came out of nowhere, yeah, but that's the thing. So you got to stay tuned to catch that all. So this is shooting the shot with Haas and McGuire. Our interview with Steve Schutt. Hey, welcome to Offside with Haas McGuire. This is our segment we like to call Shootin' the Shot. That's right, that's a shot. Shootin' the Shot with Haas McGuire. I'm Haas, I'm McGuire. Today we have a special guest.
Speaker 2:Yes, we do. Liam is wearing his Montreal Canadiens golf shirt what I didn't even think you noticed.
Speaker 1:Oh, I noticed. I noticed you spelt it wrong. It's supposed to be with a, b.
Speaker 2:Yeah well they beat the B's all the time. Yeah well, let's not get into that right now because we're brewing fan.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, so have some fun, fun. I hadn't even introduced him yet.
Speaker 2:I know I know.
Speaker 1:I know so from probably the greatest dynasty in hockey history and I have to admit it, the Montreal Canadiens in the 1970s. We're joined today by Steve Schutt. Hall of Famer. Steve Schutt, steve thanks for coming.
Speaker 4:Thanks, you guys got me off the golf course, yeah, but the good news is you came all the way down here to River Strand to meet me, so I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:That's what we love about it, scotty. We love that, and thank you so much for joining us on the show. We've been touring the state. Eh, chris, we've done some miles. Yeah, we've done some miles.
Speaker 4:Did you guys bring all this cold?
Speaker 3:weather.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm starting to wonder, this is Canadian weather down here? It is Canadian weather.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is like winter day in Toronto, yeah that is yeah.
Speaker 4:Not here for Florida. No, I mean Florida usually is about 75, but it's about 55 today.
Speaker 1:But you know what it does. It makes you appreciate those 75 days.
Speaker 4:I guess that's one way of putting it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not. I'm not impressing you, so we're going to start by Liam's going to rattle off. I know a couple of things, but Liam knows more. So, liam, why don't you tell us about our guest today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. We have got one of the greatest left wingers in NHL history here today joining us. Steve Schutt drafted fourth overall 1972 by the Montreal Canadiens His line out of junior in Toronto. Schutt, gardner and Harris, they absolutely tore it up. All three of them drafted in the top eight in the draft that year, billy Harris going first, stevie Ait Gardner to the Habs as well. Montreal had a hell of a draft that year Bunny LaRocque, van Boksmeer, billy Nairup, these guys all the same draft.
Speaker 2:Shoddy went on to play very briefly in Nova Scotia Five, six games, scored four goals, called right back up, won five Stanley Cups Number 22,. Left wing won five Stanley Cups number 22, left wing. It's the thing about LeFleur and Schutt is they had Pete Mahal, jacques Lemire, pierre Laroche, three centermen. Everybody scored, everybody could, the centermen could dish the puck and you had these two dynamic wingers who just absolutely lit it up for consecutive seasons. And Steve, what I like from a numerical point of view is kind of a neat thing it's NHL career Chris because he scored eight goals, then 15, then 30, then 45, then 60, then 49. Like he had nine consecutive 30 goal seasons. But if you look how the numbers went up 8, 15, 30, 45, 60, like all by 15. Like every season he got better by 15 goals it was. It's just kind of a numerical thing Now, is that a plan?
Speaker 4:Uh not really.
Speaker 3:Was there an?
Speaker 1:empty netter. At the end of the season he was like I can't do this. This is now 16.
Speaker 4:It'll throw things off. No, it was the 49. I remember when I was stuck at 49 on this, I had two games we played against Detroit and the problem was everybody in the team was trying to pass me the puck, yeah, and everybody in Detroit knew it. So I mean they just had three guys around me from Detroit. So, yeah, that's why I didn't get the 50th.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what, coming off a 60-goal season. So I mean you and flower, uh, first of all, nine straight, 30 incredible, especially from montreal perspective and then 60, you and flower tied with that, and and it's, it's, uh, I mean steve, shut puck, uh, your shot was unbelievable. We're going to get into all that, but that's the. Just to finally introduce, say that he went to the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1993. So we're dealing with a Hockey Hall of Famer here. So this is an absolute pleasure, steve, to be talking to you again. I haven't seen you in a long time, so we're really glad you welcomed us here to your club. You're a member.
Speaker 3:You're a member here.
Speaker 4:I am, I am. You're a member here, I am, I am. So I'm retired from hockey now. I'm playing golf and man, there's some days that I could. I should retire from that too.
Speaker 1:But that's the sport, ain't Chris?
Speaker 4:but there's some days like today yeah, I had a good game and won all the money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a good day today now we're not endorsing gambling in sports, by the way.
Speaker 3:Well, everybody else is no exactly.
Speaker 2:We're going to run a ad right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have an ad.
Speaker 1:We'll send it to you because I think you'll like it. But yeah, so I have a question I know we want to get into a bunch of things.
Speaker 1:No, no, you go but you touched on something that I had said I was really interested in. So you were, if you know what I'm going to say, pure goal scorer. I know you played the whole length of the ice, but you know what. You were great in the offensive zone, unlike most players. But who was the toughest? I know when you had three guys around you, but who was the toughest in that offensive zone that you had to play against? That you can recall.
Speaker 4:Well there was a lot of you know, obviously there was a lot of good defensemen around. There was a lot of good teams too, yeah. And as far as goalies were concerned, it was kind of funny, like, for example, tony Esposito, who was a great goalie and like one year I'd score three or four goals against them. Then the next year couldn't score a goal, and but that's, that's the way goalies work, yeah, you know. But you know there's always some really good defenseman around. That that you knew. When you're planning it, you know that not only you gotta worry about them if you're going, you know if you're going in front of their net.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but you also have to be careful, because when they come back up I mean they're gonna score goals on you. So I had to check them too. Yeah, and you know, the one thing he had with Montreal and with Scotty is maybe me and LeFleur were not the best defensive players, certainly in the league or the team, but we knew how to play in our own zone because Scottie made sure that we knew that. We knew Because if good teams they win, if everybody knows how to play in both ends of the ice yeah.
Speaker 4:You know and I still see that a lot you know, I still see the Leafs right now. I see, you know, guys like Matthews and Marner now are starting to get the idea. Yeah, they're playing, they're starting to play 200 feet. Yeah, I look at Edmonton. They're not quite there yet. You know, like you know Drycycle and Connor, I mean man the one way they're outstanding.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But if you look at them, the other way you know for them to win yeah.
Speaker 4:Because they're going to be going against the top lines of everybody else, and so you better be able to play both ends. Yeah, and you know, same as when myself and LeFleur, and when we were playing, we were going against the number one guys, so you had to. You know, if you didn't have the puck, you better be like, for example, we go play against Boston and Brad Park used to say who's the toughest guy to play against? Well, steve Schott. And he said well, why? Well, he says all he would do is if we were in their zone, he'd just come up to me, stand beside me and put a stick between my legs and I would say, okay, here's their best defenseman and I got him tied up, so I got my man.
Speaker 4:That was easy. So you simplified the game. Oh yeah, we kept the KISS system. Believe me, keep it simple. Oh yeah, we kept it. You know the KISS system.
Speaker 2:Believe me, keep it simple stupid. Yeah, you know. Again, just to Steve 930 games, 817 points, 424 goals, fifth all-time on the Habs. 99 playoff games with 98 points like literally that close to a point a game in the playoffs, which is really really, really, really rare. And I think it speaks to how you used to take your game to the postseason. And there's a story I heard years ago, Steve, so I'm going to ask you if you can verify it or not. But first of all, a lot of the guys on the team that I've talked to said you may have been like everybody you had so much talent on those late 70s teams, but they speak about you from your compete level. They said your hating to lose may have been as high or higher than anybody else on the team at that time. Would you agree or disagree?
Speaker 4:I would say there was a lot of other guys, but you know, I think that what happened with me is when I got drafted by Montreal, you know, I walked in and you know there's. You know, one of my idols was Frank Mahal, which was there. You know, you don't realize it, but you know, you're learning how to win almost by osmosis. Yeah, you know, a guy like Henry Henry. You know, henry didn't say a word, but I mean, when he went out on the ice, all he did was work and work, and work and work, and there was a reason why he won 10 Stanley Cups 10?
Speaker 4:Henry, yeah, henry won 11 and it wasn't actually, it was 11, it was 11. Chet Cornway is 10. I always said Actually, he was 11. Yeah, he was 11. He was 11.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's what I Chet Cornway is 10.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I always said I used to tell people you know Henry had to wear. If Henry wore all his Rings, his rings, he'd have to take his pants off. But I mean, you know that Everybody talked about the mystique of the Montreal Canadiens. That was the mystique.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay Is guys just work and they work harder than everybody else. Yeah, and for a guy like me coming in and looking at a guy like Henry, you know, with the work ethic that he had, yeah, how could I just kind of float around and say, well, here I'm a goal scorer, that's all I'm going to do? No, I don't think so. Yeah, and you know, that's the mystique of the Montreal Canadiens.
Speaker 1:So would you say that in modern era, right, you have a lot of guys who just play their role? I'm the goal scorer, I do this and we can point out to some people within the league right now, but do you think that that's a problem with? Scotty Bowman is renowned for being a tough coach on the guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think that coaching obviously has changed? You think it hurts the game or it helps the game.
Speaker 4:Well, the game has changed in the sense where they're looking for stars. Okay, so everybody, every team that's coming in they're looking at, well, come and see this star, which is fine. But there's one thing, being a star, and there's another thing winning the Stanley Cup. And if you're going to win the Stanley Cup, you've got to play a 200-foot game and you'll see it. You know, you've seen it.
Speaker 4:When Scotty went to Detroit, steve Iserman was there and you know he was a one-way player at that time, yep, and then he developed Iserman into, you know, a really good two-way player. And that's where, you know, steve went from there to there. Yeah, and you see, right now, as teams come up, well, we just looked, you know, like use toronto, uh, when, when matthews and marner became the stars, they're only playing one end of the ice, but I see them right now. They know for them to win and go to that next level, they've got to play a 200-foot game. And they're actually doing it right now. And any of these stars and it's kind of a tough thing because they're promoting you as the goal scorers and stuff like that but to win you've got to play a team game and that's where everything kind of gets shaded a little bit. I mean you want to be a star or do you want to win? So sorry, yeah, go ahead, buddy.
Speaker 1:So everybody that you talk to, like we talked to Espo and we talked to Hodge and we talked to Duguay, and everybody talks about the importance of team right. And you know, you're like, we talked to Espo and we talked to Hodge and we talked to Duguay, and everybody talks about the importance of team Right. And you know, you hear it. It's almost cliche. And I you know what we've played and I've played at certain levels of hockey and you know how. How is? What was the key to becoming a team in Montreal while you were in Montreal?
Speaker 4:Well, you know, first of all, there was no stars there, Because if you ever thought you were a star, then you look there. Well, there's Le Fleur, there's Le Maire, there's Ken Dryden. Well, you know, wait a minute, how much of a star am I? So we were all pretty equal.
Speaker 1:But equal stars I mean.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to blow.
Speaker 1:Listen, I'm not blowing smoke in your ass.
Speaker 4:We were equal. And if you ever start thinking you're a little bit too big for your britches, all these guys have put you right in your place, yeah, so it's a little bit different than than it is now so what like for camaraderie?
Speaker 1:obviously you guys must have hung out together, done things. You're on the road, but when you were home, I we talked with espo and those guys and they would, they kind of, you know, they kind of partied together all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, phil spoke very strongly about that. I think that's the way it was with you.
Speaker 4:You know we're different eras right now. You know, like the, you know the 70s and 80s were a lot different than they are now. You've got basically a two-tiered system in the NHL and you've got your core guys, eight guys that they've signed to six, seven, eight-year contracts, and then all the rest that are one-year contracts, two-year contracts and, as a coach or management, what you have to do is you have to convince all of these guys that it is in your best interest if you play as a team and you play for each other and you have lots of different dynamics, as they say, you've got a guy that's got an eight-year $60 million contract and he's there, he thinks, to score 50 goals. Right, yeah, in reality, he's there to score goals but win the cup.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, and that's where it kind of gets skewered a little bit. Yeah, you know, and that's where it kind of gets skewered a little bit. Yeah, but if you look at the best, teams.
Speaker 3:If you look at the teams that win the Stanley, Cup, it's always the best teams. Yeah, I mean you look at the best teams. Look at last year for Vegas For sure, 100% it was a team. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you can go all the way down the list. Generally, who wins, it's the best team.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And usually the team with the most Canadian board players, but that's another story.
Speaker 4:It's not one guy wins the Stanley Cup or two guys win the Stanley.
Speaker 2:Cup. It doesn't work that way. If that was the case, mcdavid and Dreisaitl would get at least Edmonton into the final, and maybe one day they will. But that's the thing. When you and Guy were running the league, you know you guys were making finals. Well, look at the rest of the team. You had 10 Hall of Famers dressing every night. Yeah, so you know, I mean, it's the power and the strength.
Speaker 4:But the team concept was very strong for us. Yeah, and as they say, you know, like Scotty, he would say when you guys got the puck, I don't care what you do If you don't have the puck here's what I want you to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there you go. That was it, yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, and you know, because he knew that you know, offensively we're fine yeah.
Speaker 1:But defensively if're fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, defensively if you don't have the puck, you better do what you have to do Was he fair, steve, like when you look back now, because you were an assistant coach in the league as well, you went with the Habs for four years, I believe. So you know. So you came in, you stood on the bench as well, so you got a bit of a sense of that whole occupation per se. So when you look back at scotty because there's a lot of different stories out there and he had success everywhere he went really other than buffalo. But you know, that aside, I mean he, he, how was he?
Speaker 4:now, as you look back, about scotty he uh, he was, uh, he was right yeah. And, as I say, it was a different, it was a different era yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know the funny.
Speaker 4:Thing is is when he's in Pittsburgh. Yeah, so he took over. He took over for Bob Johnson. He took over a cup winning team and they'd won the Stanley Cup the year before. Yeah, Going in six weeks before the playoffs. They're not, they're not in the playoffs. So Mario comes up to him and says you know, Scotty, we want you behind the bench, but we don't want you running the practices. Okay, Now anybody else will sit there and say well, you know, I've got eight Stanley Cups, I'm this and I'm that. The hell with you, I'm doing it. What did he do? Okay, so we got Barry Smith run all the practices. Yeah, they went and won the Stanley Cup. Guess what? He goes to Detroit the next year, signs a big contract.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the first thing he does. He brought Barry Smith.
Speaker 4:Brought Barry Smith, so he was adaptable.
Speaker 2:Did he have Claude L'Oreal running a lot of your practices?
Speaker 4:Claude L'Oreal was the first assistant coach in the NHL and Claude basically developed all of the guys that weren't playing as much but Scotty. The interesting part about Scotty was he had very little ego. Like just on that thing, if you had an ego, he would tell Mario like you know, hey, I'm Scotty Bone. Instead, he just said okay, and he worked around it and that's the reason why he was so successful. Yeah, and he worked around it and that's the reason why he was so successful. Yeah, and you know, and the other thing too, when he was probably the best bench coach of all time, yeah, we used to call him the computer. Like right now you've got three guys up in the stands and they're, you know, in the press box and they're bringing relaying stats like face-offs, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Who's winning against this guy and that guy?
Speaker 3:He had it right there. He had it all in his head. Yeah, he had it right there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and he could pick up who was hot at that day. Yeah, I remember we played Toronto in the playoffs and Jimmy Jones was a really good defensive centerman and he was a really good face-off guy and I remember there was about two face-offs. I beat him in a face-off Well the next thing you know, he's got me out there taking face-offs against Jimmy Jones?
Speaker 3:No way. Yeah, he just picked me out there taking face-offs against Jimmy Jones no way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he just picked up on it right then. Wow, but that was the strength that Scotty had.
Speaker 2:Wow. So like LeMaire, when it got thrown out, you got put in, you beat him. Scotty remembers it and thinks okay, here's another face-off ozone or whatever.
Speaker 4:Take the face-off. Jeez, yeah, but that's how. That's how good he was behind the bench. Wow, like he was head and shoulders above everybody, you know and he wasn't afraid if things are not going right, to change it. Yeah, you know, and he would change guys and just change things. He didn't care. Yeah, did not care.
Speaker 1:It's a wonder he actually succeeded as a coach.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know, I'm talking, I mean, well, the thing about Scotty. Scotty went. If you look at his whole career, he went where all the best players were yeah, he went Montreal. Then he went to Buffalo Still, the French connection is still there Then he went to Pittsburgh, and then he went to Buffalo who had a really good still the French connection still there.
Speaker 2:Then he went to.
Speaker 4:Pittsburgh and then he went to Detroit. I mean all three of them. Four of them were the premier talent.
Speaker 2:Well, even his first four right in St Louis. I mean he takes over for Lynn Patrick I think it was who really just wanted to be the signature first head coach of St Louis. He gave way to Scotty there in November of 67 and Scotty runs the same. Who did he bring in? He brings in Montreal guys Doug Harvey, Dickie Moore, Jimmy.
Speaker 4:Roberts, Jean Plante. Doug Harvey was 44 years old.
Speaker 2:44 years old.
Speaker 4:So he brought all the old Montreal Canadiens in Because he knew that they knew how to win. I knew how to win yeah, my god, they were.
Speaker 2:Tell you it's. Uh, you know you're you're. That's interesting to hear. That. Look like we gotta ask some specifics here, man, we go like we. Steve, I mean, have you ever uh in in 424 goals in the regular season but New year's eve 75? That shot over tretschak. Man, I don't know if you ever walked on one better than that.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's got to be, at the top of your list, even though it was just an exhibition game. But I'll never forget it. Chris will never forget it. We were talking about driving in here. What do you, what can you share with us about your memories of that game?
Speaker 4:well, and that goal, yeah, we knew that it was interesting because they based in montreal, so they were there for the two weeks. So you know, we practiced and then they practiced okay, so we, and we all knew, this was going to be the game.
Speaker 4:yeah, okay, so we're both of us eyeing each other and um so on. You know, when we uh, we start the game, that was my very first shift. I went down the right side and I fired a rocket right over his shoulder. I know Tread track. It was humming. For the next 15 years, whenever I met him, he'd look at me and he'd go like this no way. And he'd smile and he'd come and shake my hand.
Speaker 2:Come on really. Oh, that's cool, that's so cool.
Speaker 4:He was good and he knew, Know what he was talking about it was a rocket. It was a rocket. What a game, though.
Speaker 4:You know Lambert and Cornwallier scored the other goals and you know, I say to people all the time, kenny had seven shots on net after two periods, I mean he had seven shots, but we knew and this was actually Scotty's coaching, and see, at that time, the NHL, we were up and down, yeah, okay, left wingers would go up and down, right wingers up and down, yeah, whereas the Russians had a flow Right. And so what would happen is the first guy would start it, he'd pass it and they'd roll around and eventually the guy that started the play would get the puck, yeah. So Scottie said, once that first guy makes that pass, take him right out, take him out of the play.
Speaker 2:And so what we did is we took them right out between the two blue lines, right out, and that's why they couldn't make any plays, okay, that's why they got their 13 shots, yeah yeah, what was, as I say, all the time people talk about it as the greatest game which it was so intense, so unbelievable, because it ended up tied and you know the atmosphere and everything else else, and I know you guys are building for it because everyone's thinking the Habs are coming. Here's a, you know Red Army and and, of course, 72 is only three years in the rearview mirror, right oh, yeah, you know it was a pretty it was.
Speaker 4:It was a special game. Yeah, everybody, and and because they were there for the two weeks, yeah, both teams were.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that.
Speaker 4:Both teams were here. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, they based out of.
Speaker 2:Montreal Wow so yeah, so we knew, yeah, so you got a good look at them yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to jump off that.
Speaker 4:But, people don't realize. A minute and a half left to go in the game, they hit the post. A minute and a half left to go in the game, they hit the post.
Speaker 2:I know they hit the crossbar, I know it was crushing. I know how that post that came to win would have been devastating. Even well, little M's interview after he was so disappointed, you know Pete was going like let everybody down. My God, hardly, you know. I mean hardly, it was. Look, if you play in the best of seven, you guys are winning four games to one. I'm telling you right now, who knows, I know who knows. Well.
Speaker 1:I'm saying it. It leads me to another question, though, as a follow-up, and maybe this is the answer, the most memorable goal to you, the one that you lean back and go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was me, you know that was me, you know I that was a memorable goal, but it's I was more of the more of the like. My train of thought was this okay, this was this is what I do for the team. Yeah, I'm goalscorer, your goal scorer, yeah. So, however you do, it doesn't matter. It was that was my job on the team, so none of them were really special. That was just my job on the team, so I really didn't think of it that way.
Speaker 1:So you didn't go home at the end and lean over to your wife and say how was the game she would have known anyway by then.
Speaker 2:First of all, the entire province knew, but I the game. Oh, she would have known anyway by then. I mean first of all the entire province knew, but I will say this much it was not, it's.
Speaker 4:You know, like both me and LeFleur, we were goal scorers and that was our part of the team. Yeah, and we knew if we didn't score, our team would have a hard time winning.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that was where the pressure came in from us every game and it's a difference. And even today, if you're on the number one line, you've got to score. And there's a big difference between being on the number one line and being on the number two line. I mean if you're on that number one line, you've got to score, yeah, and there's a big difference between being on the number one line and being on the number two line. Yeah, I mean if you're on that number one line, you've got to be there every game, yeah, and if you're not, you're not going to win.
Speaker 2:Well, I remember probably 50 of your goals. I'll tell you two that stand out for me were being the third period after Good Friday, 84 to knock the Nords out. Oh yeah, when you scored in the third period after everything that went on in that game.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I'll tell you the story on that. People don't realize that Actually, lemaire was the coach At that point. I was getting near the end of my career, I was in and out of the lineup, really not playing a lot. So we're in Quebec, we're playing the Nordiques, and then that was Valentine's Massacre. It's a big fight. They said, okay, we got another minute or so on this period, that's it Went in, came back out and then, as we come out, then they announced, okay, this guy's out of the game, that guy's out of the game, this guy's. So they said, okay, we're on it.
Speaker 4:Let's start the fight all over again. Yeah, so they had the second fight, so then it's all good Cleared up. So we got like six guys on the bench each side. So I'm sitting there and LaMera I see LaMera, lamera is looking down the bench, so he looks at me and I look at him and I says you got to play me now. I won't score two goals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to win the series. To win the series, yeah, well, that was probably To win the series.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, that was probably the Swain song, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know you scored a ton of big ones, man, a ton of big ones. Look, we've mentioned his name a couple of times. I think we're far enough in now where Steve got to ask you about the flower. I know you went to see him not long before he passed and I got to know him decently as well, but I mean, you were a teammate, you were a line mate, you were a friend. The guy was the straw that stirred the drink in the province after Bellevue, really, and you would know all this and you were a peer scoring goals, as you've alluded to. Can you share what your relationship, if you don't mind, was with Guy?
Speaker 4:Well, he was obviously we've been intertwined for the last 30 years, 40 years, and you know, when I played with him I had to change my game. You know, he was the pocket carrier and I was the finisher, and that was the way it was. And you know, I remember one I was sitting with him one day and he said you know, when I got the pocket, he says I don't even want to think what I'm doing with it.
Speaker 4:I just want to just go, because if I don't know what I'm going to do, how is somebody going to defend that? And I said, well, yeah, but how am I going to play with you? So he fell out for a second and he gave me a smile and he says that's your problem. So I thought that was pretty good. But he was a hundred percent instinct player. We had one meeting you know a strategy meeting, yeah, so it was one of the nbc games playing against I think it was detroit, I'm not, I'm not sure and at that the old, you know they used to have the flag, the commercial's up Flag.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay. So we're waiting there. All of a sudden the flag goes up and he comes over to me Everybody's waiting. And he says, if I get the puck, stay by the ear. I says the ear that now both teams are standing around this guy's waving the flag. You know, drop the puck, drop the puck. I says the ear. I said what's the year? You know, now both teams are waiting around. So it goes like this. And he says you. He says you know the faceoff circle. He says you know that that's the two years. He says stay on that a year. Oh, on the year. Drop the puck. Lefleur goes, lemaire gives it to LeFleur, lefleur passes the meat right on the ear. The puck kept going along because I was laughing so hard. That was our only strategy meeting we've ever had, Shoddy.
Speaker 2:Larry, and I'm going to get you to talk about him too, because we're seeing him tomorrow, so we've got to get a comment about Big Bird from you. But all the guys that I've talked to have said Le Fleur was the worst at practice. You did not want him doing the drill first.
Speaker 4:Well, as they say he was a hundred percent natural player, yeah, and so Scotty would try and okay we're going to practice the power play. Yeah, okay, okay, we're going to shoot the puck in.
Speaker 4:The puck would go from Savard to Robinson and then back up to LeFleur, and then LeFleur was supposed to go. I mean he would go, okay, savard over to Robinson, robinson, up to LeFleur, and then all of a sudden you see, you know, the whole deer in the headlights. What do I do? And then you have to be careful because he would panic and then just like he could fire the puck. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:He'd hit you right in the head with it. Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know he would panic, so then we tried again and then he'd screw up, then we tried again. And then finally, scotty gets all upset. He's like get out of here, get out of here. And then the next game.
Speaker 2:We score two goals in power play, all due to the practice you know what they say, practice makes perfect. Practice makes perfect. We're seeing Larry Robinson tomorrow, so if I say his name, what's?
Speaker 4:the first thing that comes to your mind. You know, larry's just a nice guy, probably one of the nicest guys you'll meet. Yeah, as I said, three for the nicest guys ever met, or Larry and the three guys from rush that I know that I grew up with yeah, you grew up with Geddy Lee and I introduced Geddy to Alex. Really, yeah, yeah, we're 15 years old. Wow, just really really nice guys down to earth, and Larry was exactly the same as those guys, so really, as as I always.
Speaker 4:I always say the guys that you that meet me and Larry, they say, oh, you guys are so nice and stuff. I say, well, he's a lot nicer than I am.
Speaker 2:Who did you roommate back in the day, guy With?
Speaker 4:Guy yeah, yeah, yeah, I had to keep my eye on him, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, there was a lot more to Guy Le Fleur than hockey sticks. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. Were you guys tight as a team off the ice like those late 70s halves?
Speaker 4:I mean to win that often like were you Like guys were pretty you know everybody had their own kind of little cliques, yeah, cliques, but generally the team was very tight, yeah, and, as most teams are, yeah, it's gotten a little bit different now because there's a lot more changeovers. You know, on a yearly basis on on every team. Yeah, uh, we used to. You know our team you'd probably change over like two players a year. I know right now it's about six. Yeah, right, um, yeah, so you, you've got that. You know that group, the core group of guys, have been there seven, eight, nine, ten years. Yeah, so you have a shorthand.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you knew, you know you knew the guys, you knew the good parts of them, the bad parts of them, and you learn to accept them, because that's the way people are.
Speaker 1:Wow, we were talking about that in the car.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely. I've learned to accept your faults. Yes, I know, and I have many.
Speaker 4:Everybody is different, and you better know what their differences are.
Speaker 2:What about this, steve? I touched on it very, I just kind of blew over it earlier. But Pete Mahal, like Shaka Merrick, but did Pierre Lerouche, center you and flower as well?
Speaker 4:He did for a while.
Speaker 3:I think like maybe one one one year, two years, yeah, so he went.
Speaker 4:So what happened was, you know, we started with Pete, then we had LaMere, then LaMere retired, yeah. Then we had Lemaire, then Lemaire retired, then they brought in Bobby Smith Right, and then they brought in LaRouche Right, and yeah, so we went through them, you went through some different centermen there, for sure.
Speaker 2:Kind of interesting, because the dynamics of the guys are kind of all a little bit different, like Pete still holds the Montreal Canadiens record for most assists in one season and he set up like that was Guy's first 50th, I think, and you scored 45, I think that year, like he's just passing you guys and you guys are firing BBs.
Speaker 4:So, Pete, you know and here's what happened with Pete you know, we had a great line and when we first started with Pete, Pete was the star. He came in from the 72 series.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 4:You know he was the big star. Lefleur had a little bit of success, but not anywhere near what everybody expected him to be Yep, and at that time I was a flop, and so he was the star of the line and basically he just kind of wrapped his arms around us and he said, okay, let's go. So he was our big protector kind of deal. And what he did is he gave myself and Guy the confidence to go to that next level, confidence to go to the next level. The problem was, once LeFleur got to that next level, both him and Pete needed to have the puck, and you can't do that on the line, and so that's why, basically, they made the move and they put LeMaire there and LeMaire basically said here, I'm going to pass the puck up to you guys.
Speaker 4:You guys do whatever you guys do and I'll look after the defensive end.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so that's where that you know. That's when LaMera came in, yeah, and then when LaMera retired, they brought Bobby Smith in there. It didn't quite work, yeah, because again, bobby was more of a goal scorer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Than he was a passer. Yeah, larouche came in and he probably had the most skill of anybody. Yeah, but to go and play on the number one line with Montreal, like you've got to be there every night.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And it was just a little difficult for him. Yeah, but he without a doubt, he was probably the most talented of all of us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hell of a season too. I mean you know he had 50 goals as well with the Habs. So I mean it's just, you guys had such an abundance of riches.
Speaker 4:I mean every time you turned around you know, yeah, it was, and we pushed each other in practices as well. And you know we didn't. And the one thing that Scotty made sure Scotty knew that there was one team that could beat us and that was ourselves Yourselves. Yeah, and he made sure every single day that we didn't get too high on our own morals.
Speaker 2:Can you believe you went through a season with only eight losses? Like when you look back now I mean I don't want to get lost in the numbers.
Speaker 4:but Steve, yeah, but you know, and the eight times we lost, the city went mourning. I mean we were, you know, there were headlines.
Speaker 1:Well, what's?
Speaker 4:wrong with the Habs? Well, yeah, what's wrong with the Habs? They only won by two goals. You know, the last time they didn't play very well, they won, but they didn't play very well, but they won, but, but they didn't play very well, yeah, you know. So it was, uh, but scotty, scotty made sure that that we didn't get too full of ourselves, and that would have been the hardest, and that happens to a lot of teams. Yeah, and, and this is where he was he was really really good, um, and and he called guys on and he just made he made everybody just a little bit uncomfortable yeah, that's why also what I've heard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one more from me and I'm going to turn over to chris. Yeah, I gotta get a a thought from you, steve, about the stanley cups. Um, I know you got your name on 73. You're're really impactful, obviously on the next four as well. And is there one that stands out so many say? The Flyers in 76. You beat the Bruins in 77, 78, and, of course, the Rangers in 79.
Speaker 4:Can you speak about that. Each one was different and they're totally, they really were totally different. You know, like the one with Philly. If, if we didn't win that and if the Flyers won again, then it would have literally the NHL would have gone back to like a slap shot, like 100%, yeah, you know. So we were kind of proud about that, and you know. Then, you know you had the series against the Bruins, yeah, and you know we really respected the Bruins. I mean they were tough, I mean they were tough as nails but they weren't dirty. Yeah, but again, you couldn't, you couldn't rely on your tough guys to protect you because they were too busy protecting themselves. Yeah, but again, there was no very little high sticking or cheap shots.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, it was. You know. I'll tell you a really good story. Yeah, we're playing against them and it wasn't a playoff game. But we're playing and the puck came around my side and I dumped it out and Terry O'Reilly came and hit me and I got my stick up on him and he said Steve, he says I hit you clean. And he says if you do it again, I'm going to have to do something. So I'm skating up and down the rice and I'm thinking he's right, you know, I, you know like he hit me clean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so the whistle went. I went over to Terry.
Speaker 3:I says, terry, you're right, I'm sorry and that's the respect that we had for each other, yeah you know, like they because he wasn't a dirty player, not a dirty player and not very few of the Bruins were dirty players.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, were they tough? Yeah, they were tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were tough as nails. They had a tough friggin' team.
Speaker 4:They were tough as nails, but they weren't. You know, like Philadelphia was a little bit different, yeah, but Boston, man, they were tough, but we respected them, and if we at any point if we would have lost. We would have been cheering for them to win.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know like.
Speaker 4:That's how much respect we had for the Bruins.
Speaker 3:That says a lot, man. You've mentioned that a few times here.
Speaker 2:Well, and you?
Speaker 1:know what? It's funny because Espo said the same thing about the respect factor back and forth. He did actually About that and how they tried to play where you didn't get your stick up. Like you used that as a you know what I mean and some of those things. And we've talked about this in previous episodes, and I'm not trying to commandeer, but about how I think the young guys don't have the same level of respect.
Speaker 4:And maybe it's because they wear cages throughout their hole. So we, you know I went through the whole era of.
Speaker 3:You know I played against the last goalie not to wear a mask, andy Brown.
Speaker 4:Yep and automatically you keep your shot down.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And if you went into a corner with a guy that didn't have a helmet, you keep your stick down? Yeah, but now with guys with helmets Not interesting, so you just bring it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But that was just, it was a conscious thing, yeah, and you know, like now everybody's got everything. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we're going to you know kind of wrap this up, but I have a couple of questions that I'm interested in. One, you know, you leave Montreal, you go to LA and then your career, you know, in post-career, what do you miss?
Speaker 4:Not much, no, no, because I went afterwards. Then, you know, I tried coaching, I did broadcasting. I really like radio, I really love, you know. Afterwards, then, you know, I tried coaching, I did broadcasting. Uh, I really liked radio, really loved. You know, I was with Red Fisher.
Speaker 3:I did that with Nick Irvin. We had. We had a great time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, really liked that. Uh. Then I did Hockey Night in Canada, which was a little bit more, uh, tougher, because you know you have such short segments, yeah, and you got to get in and out, yeah, and I had a hard time handling that, yeah. Then I went into as being an assistant coach, which I, I like, I really like working with the players, yeah, but the problem with when you're coaching, you're responsible for a lot of stuff that you have no control over. Like if your star player is getting divorced, I mean good luck, yeah, and and that's the problem when you're, when you're, you know, when you're you're coaching, you're responsible for a lot of stuff that there's nothing you can control, right.
Speaker 4:So after that then I went and started working with the Simcoe Refrigeration I was looking for, I'd been in hockey for a long time and I wanted to try and do something else. You know, players get stuck in the whole hockey syndrome and they stay there their whole life. I just wanted to challenge myself and that's when I went with Simcoe Refrigeration and basically we built all the ice rinks, you know, we built 18 NHL buildings, we built all the NBA buildings, we did the outdoor, we designed the outdoor game. You know, the rinks and stuff like that. So, instead of dealing with hockey players, I was dealing with architects and engineers, right. So it forced me. It forced me to learn Right, and it was a challenge and it believe me, it was a challenge and believe me, it was a challenge, but that was something that I had to do just for myself. I had to prove to myself that I could do it, yeah, you know. So I wound up working with them for 20 years and the other end of it, I was still playing old-timers hockey.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and a lot of it and I was playing a lot of it. So I was still playing old-timers hockey. Yeah, yeah, so a lot of it and I was playing a lot of it. So I was still playing. And when you're playing old-timers hockey, you know it's, you go, basically you go right back to being a kid. Yeah, it's fun. Again, it's not a business.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's fun yeah you know, I remember we brought Eric Lindros, yeah, and. And Eric, you know you didn't want to play. You didn't want to play and then we said well, come on, we're playing in Oshawa, the generals yeah, it's back to where he plays off yet he got on the ice the very first week face you could see his eyes and he was just like a bull in a china shop, just pushing everybody all over the place.
Speaker 4:At the end of the game he says when's the next game? When's the next game? Then what he did? They went to pay him. He says give it to the charity. Then he went to the dinner and he bought about $5,000 worth of stuff for the charity. Wow, he didn't care. Yeah, he was playing for the fun he just loved it Wow, and I got a whole new respect for Eric Wow Once I met him and saw what he did and how he looked after himself. Pretty impressed Pretty impressed with him.
Speaker 1:That's really good, because I've only heard from Alanis Morissette about him and she doesn't speak as highly, neither does Abu either. That's right, yeah, either. That's right, yeah. So, leading to the next question, which is you've played with a lot of people, and mostly Montreal Canadiens, but is there someone that you had a kinship with, the favourite person you played with and it could have been a junior too, like I don't know?
Speaker 4:Well, you know what, if you're?
Speaker 3:a hockey player.
Speaker 4:It's a whole hockey player mentality and I would put it in a different aspect. There was not a lot of players that I didn't like, right. Okay, you know maybe five or six of the 30 years that I played that I would say, man, like I don't want to see this guy ever again. But generally most of the players were good, honest players, like even when I coached. You know like they're true pros and you know they came every day to try their best. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but it wasn't wasn't for lack of effort yeah, it wasn't for.
Speaker 4:You know all the kind of different reasons that ever we thought it was just it just didn't work. Yeah, but you know these guys were most 97% of 98% were good pros and good friends, can I?
Speaker 2:just show one more name at yet, because he's such a, such a close friend of mine. He was your captain Yvonne Cornway.
Speaker 4:Yeah what any man was another one. That was, that was a true, yeah, a real good team guy. And again, he learned from the recharge.
Speaker 4:Right he learned from Tove Lake. Yeah, again, the mystique of the Montreal Canadiens John Beliveau Got past. John Beliveau, yeah, got passed down. Yeah, and as they say, there was in I'm not too sure how other teams operated, but I know in Montreal, if you started thinking you're a little bit too big for your britches, there'd be about four or five other guys that would just whittle you down to size in a heartbeat. So you're, that's something which is good, which is good.
Speaker 1:Well, humility is one of the greatest assets that someone can have, and I know that because I have it.
Speaker 4:Well, look at the guys that played at Montreal. Yeah, I mean, do you see any? You know through the history of the Montreal Canadiens? No, you've just got guys that just want to work, they want to win and they're going to do whatever it takes to win.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know what that comment and I know that you've touched on that was not at all my thought process because you guys made it look so effortless. Like you know, when you say it's because we've worked so hard, I'm like no, it's because you guys were so great. But you know what? You were great because you worked hard and I hadn't it, hadn't clued in, like you know. You know that as someone who plays, but you don't know it because you're watching as a kid thinking you guys were just floating the old story the harder you work, the luckier you get.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty simple.
Speaker 4:But you know, just on our team who was more important Steve Schutt because he scored 50 goals or Bob Ganey because he stopped 50 goals?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great analogy. I mean you know yeah.
Speaker 4:So there's no way that Steve Schutt was going to go up and say you know, I'm the guy, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:When I'm looking at Bob Ganey, Doug Jarvis, Jimmy Roberts Well, look at how many big goals Yvon Lambert scored.
Speaker 2:Lambert Lambert, trombley, reisbrough.
Speaker 4:Jarvis. I was not better than them, and nobody was better than anybody else, even LeFleur. You were the sum of all parts, even LeFleur was.
Speaker 2:Did you ever meet the Rocket?
Speaker 4:Numerous times and you must have met numerous times. I knew rocket a lot better than most people because my father-in-law was the same age as him, okay, and we used to go fishing together. Really yeah, wow and uh. So, uh, him and my father-in-law used to every morning have the eye openers, which is bull's gin, and all I used to every morning have the eye openers, which is Bull's Gin, come on, yeah, well, at that age they're kind of arthritis and stuff. So it's, either you take arthritis pills or you have a couple eye openers. That would be you and I. Buddy, that was a guy, kevin Tibble. Do you remember Kevin Tibble?
Speaker 2:I don't no.
Speaker 4:So Kevin Tibble is actually still working and I think he's on NBC now, but he was doing some stuff for CBC, okay, and he went up to Hudson Bay with us CBC. They sent a crew up there and rockets it was his rockets.
Speaker 4:50th anniversary yeah, 50 gold, whatever yeah so Kevin's up there and I'm saying Kevin, I said I said if you want to meet rocket and you want to talk to rocket, I said go at 7 in the morning, yeah, knocking his door after he's had his eye openers, and then he'll talk to you. Okay, wow, and he said, oh, okay, thanks. So he goes in, set up, rocket has his eye openers. Kevin, do you do that every morning? That was the end of it Get out, get out, get out Out of the, out Out of here. So it cost these guys like $2,000. Cbc it cost them like $2,000 for flights. Never got the interview, unbelievable.
Speaker 4:So the other day I'm doing an autograph session with Rocket, we're in Michigan and Rocket is, you know, he was kind of near the end and he was stiff, yeah, you know, and just traveling, it was not, you know, he was in pain. So and he was a little grumpy, yeah, so the you know the guy, the promoter, was starting to get a little nervous. I said do you want to help Rocket? He says yeah. I said go and get colored glass and I said go and put some bowl's gin and grapefruit juice in there and just hand it to him. Okay, oh, okay. So about ten minutes later he comes back and he says Mr Richard, I got something for you, so Rocket took that. Oh, how long do you want me to stay for? We're buying the rest of the tour.
Speaker 2:Steve, what about that ovation for him in 96 when the forum closed?
Speaker 3:yeah.
Speaker 2:Monday night, march 11th, and you know see the thing like thing.
Speaker 4:Like Rocket was. Not only he was a great player, but you have to understand the history. Yeah, french Canadians. At that point in time, they were really that's the second, you know in Quebec, quebec, all management was English. Yeah, yeah, they really were second-rate yes and this was rocket, was their champion, their say their champion, yeah, their Savior, yeah, and he, you know he didn't. I don't know if he understood it. No, you know, he, you know, like Rocket, was a hockey player yeah and that's all he loved, you know.
Speaker 3:And Henry too is the same yeah, yeah, they just wanted to be hockey players you know, they were no spokesman, they were.
Speaker 4:They weren't taking up anybody's causes, you know, they were just hockey players, yeah, just who they were. Just who they were, yeah, and the fans took them to the next level, yeah, which was great to see, but it didn't have anything to do with Rocket or Henri. They didn't want it, but they, you know, they did it, and I don't think they realized how important they were to the French population in that era.
Speaker 2:Is a forum still a special spot for you From every point of view, sure.
Speaker 4:If you listen to, anybody even plays today. Where do people want to play? They want to play on Saturday night, hockey night. I in Canada, in Montreal, yeah, okay, yeah not too many of the guys want to sign there.
Speaker 2:No, hopefully that's easy. No, in oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I want to play here.
Speaker 4:I want to play, yeah, but they won't sign yeah, I think now, with the, with what they're doing now, mm-hmm, I think they're doing the right thing in the sense okay, they're doing a complete rebuild. Yeah, they're halfway through it. Yeah, where, when I was coaching, ronald Corey wouldn't allow it? No, he wouldn't allow it, we're not rebuilding.
Speaker 4:No, we cannot rebuild. No, we're kind of stuck in the middle. Now they've rebuilt it and the other thing they said, or you know, they tell the players if you don't want to play here, let us know. Yeah, we'll move you. Yeah, we just want players that want to play here.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you see, I've seen over the last couple of years you know they're winning and they're losing, but it's not because of lack of enthusiasm. Yeah, you know, those guys are going out there and they're playing hard. Yeah, you know, I give them credit to that. Uh, they will have, they will be successful in a couple of years when they, when the whole team develops. Yeah, but they've got a culture in there right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That I want to play here and I want to win here. Yeah, so you know, it's really nice to see that psychologically they're on the right path.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you could say something to the Montreal Canadian fans from the 70s, but even currently as yourself, like what would you like to say to the people of Montreal?
Speaker 4:as yourself. What would you like to say to the people of Montreal? Well, you know, the first thing is that they now are a lot more realistic. You know, they were used to Stanley Cup every year.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And it really hurt a lot of teams over the last 15 years, you know, because the pedestal was too high. You know, and what they've done right now, they've brought that pedestal down. They understand that today. You know they've got a young, developing team. They're going to win games, they're going to surprise you, but then they're going to come in and they're going to have a clunker of a game. But that's maturity. But at least the fans now realize that just because we're the Montreal Canadiens doesn't mean we're going to win the Stanley Cup every year. It doesn't work that way anymore.
Speaker 4:You know, it's, it's, it's one of 30 teams now, and it's not just Sam Pollock was the best GM of all time. Now you've got 30 GMs that are pretty sharp, Yep, and you know it's a pretty level playing field, Yep, and you know when your time is there, you've got to do it. But I think the fans realize that right now that it's. I think.
Speaker 1:Maybe now they realize how good they had it ending off and I have to thank you for joining us and allowing us to be here. Absolutely awesome. We have this thing. We want to know that when you go out Saturday night, tonight's Saturday night, you're going to go out to a karaoke bar. What's the go-to song for Steve Shutt?
Speaker 4:First of all, I'm not like Geddy Lee, but if you had a favorite, is it a Rush song. Getty can actually sing better than I can.
Speaker 2:Wow, Breaking news so what do I?
Speaker 4:what do?
Speaker 3:I. What would be? What would be the tune?
Speaker 4:I'm more into smooth jazz now, oh there you go so.
Speaker 1:So what is it? Is it a Sinatra? Is it a? It's it. So what is it? Is it a Sinatra? Is it a?
Speaker 4:yeah it's, it's, you know, steely Dan, there you go.
Speaker 2:Boss.
Speaker 4:Gags yeah. Mark Jordan, use some Toronto yeah. Toronto guy. Yeah, you know some of those, some of those kind of guys, yeah, that little bit, little bit smoother now. That groove, yeah, I'm in the groove yeah.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 4:I'm in the smooth groove.
Speaker 2:You're in the groove on the ice man, the smooth groove.
Speaker 1:For many years.
Speaker 2:Sure Many years.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you again. Our special guest, steve Schutt. This has been Offside with Haas McGuire. I'm Haas.
Speaker 2:I'm McGuire.
Speaker 1:G'day, I'm McGuire. Good day, hey, and welcome back. I hope you enjoyed the little interview we had there with Steve Shutt. It was great to do, and now we have one left, which is the Big Bird coming up next episode.
Speaker 2:The Big Bird. And to your point, and you were just teeing it up before that, we weren't sure what to do. We did it in the restaurant. We'll tee it up next week, I guess, just to let people know that, like you were saying, maybe the sound's not the greatest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the video. We were really restricted with what we could do, but you know what You're going to get to the point that he's a pretty down-to-earth guy. Yeah, right, so there was no prima donna.
Speaker 2:I mean, liam, he was a little upset because they didn't have X, but other than that, you know I wasn't that upset but Shuddy was great and we had a pint with Steve doing the interview, and right before, I think, and maybe during, I can't remember, but he is. I mean, he's a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, guy's a Hall of Famer, finished with a Hall of Famer, and you know what Started with a Hall of.
Speaker 1:Famer the interesting piece is that Steve Schutt. He was on the 74 team right 76.
Speaker 2:The 76 Team Canada. Team Canada, yeah, greatest team ever.
Speaker 1:But he, you know, often overshadowed by a few of the guys that he played with Well, flower, obviously, and he was in the centers, but he scored 60 goals himself, didn't he Scored 60.
Speaker 2:He's on that list. Yeah, he's on that list. You know, he did it actually the year before Flower. Flower did it the yearto-back years, but Steve was first. Yeah, but like I said in the interview, if you watched it, I love his goal. Did he go 8, 15, 30, 45, 60? Like it's just an interesting kind of a statistical quirk? But then down to 49 or something. So he almost had back-to-back 50s and that was pretty damn good in those days. I mean you, lefleur, of course Espo banged out a pile, but it's good stuff, man. I was really thrilled to be able to go down and talk to those guys and he lives in a community in South Florida.
Speaker 1:No, it's South Florida, I don't know what you call it on the coast. Yeah, that a bunch of guys from Manateek. Yeah, have a place there, yeah, yeah, it's such a small thing, unbelievable. We were there and we happened to. Liam posted something from on Insta Twitter there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it pops up and then I get a text from a guy going where are you? And I said, well, we're just in Florida, we're going to use that's like I live right there, so anyway that was John.
Speaker 2:Yeah, john.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Jimmy Randall, jimmy Randall. So it's there, yep, and, and there's a couple other guys too, and I, I I you know anyway, guys, that we know from home. Okay, so we're back and we're going to do now a thing. We want to talk about important things, historical hockey things, 60 goals, 50 goals, a bunch of things like that we're going to do this week in hockey history.
Speaker 3:All right, Hello Canada, hey Canada and Thornt a cat, le Fleur, coming out rather gingerly.
Speaker 4:Back to Le Fleur, he scores. The Bazzi shoots, he scores.
Speaker 1:This week in hockey history. Okay, we're back. This is this week in hockey history and this is the week of and we're starting at March 31st through to the 7th of April. Right, yeah, okay, there's so much, there's so much, yeah. So just give me two things, that's it. I only want two.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to focus on Hal's birthday, but it's the San Jose Sharks.
Speaker 2:Okay, hold the NHL record for the biggest improvement from one season to the next, and this is kind of pertinent they also hold the record for the biggest shitting of the bed from one season to one other, which has been non-stop since their run there, you know, which culminated with one trip to the final at least, much like ottawa got and they're. They're two franchises that have really mirrored each other in many aspects, where they were two teams that were in the top of the league for a decade and change and they just, you know, just weren't able to, unfortunately, as of yet, get over the hump.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what I can say? That people talk about the curse of the Ted Lindsay curse. When he wanted to start the Players Association, okay, and they traded him away, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And then they, you, you know that whole thing right. Okay, you know, you know that story, right.
Speaker 1:Well, no, I don't I'm not familiar with it as a curse. Curse, yeah, well, like, because when he was traded away they didn't win another cup for whatever. It wasn't for like 50 years or whatever. They didn't want a cup. Yeah, I don't even know what the number was, but they there was. There was talk, and you know how they talk about the curse of the Bambino. So there's all these. I say it's the curse of Joe Thornton. When San Jose got rid of Joe Thornton fucked them right up. That was it. That was their decline. They went down right from there consistently and you know what? Well, they picked him up from Boston in 04.
Speaker 2:That's right. And he went on to win the Art Ross that year. He's the only guy to win it, playing for two teams in the same year. It's a pretty significant statistic really. I think he's just a superb player for a tremendous amount of time, right through their run to the finals. I'll never forget that because I know how and you talked earlier in this show about Sidney Crosby he lost to the Penguins, I'm sure, as you remember, and man, oh man, I don't know, joe and Sid are very good friends. Thornton was killing him on the ice like he was, chopping him, running him like he. I'll never forget that how violent Joe was against Crosby, trying to take him and and, uh, of course didn't matter, you know Sid was rolling, but I mean, yeah, uh, I don't know about the curse on San.
Speaker 1:Jose, well, I'm just, I'm just saying, I'm this, is this, we make these stuff up okay, all right then all right. So that was that was the. That was well, just saying.
Speaker 2:Second, one on this year on this date, okay. So, like the date we're taping right now, they, they, they. San jose in 1993, uh, got a win that brought them up to 53 points, improved from the year before. They ended up with five more points before the end of the season. Folks, that's a 58 point improvement from one year to the next. So, whoever you cheer for you and you look at what New Jersey did, unfortunately they've fallen back and, of course, unfortunately Ottawa has as well. So teams can have the falls, but I just thought it's a. You know, like I said, there's so much at this time of the year, but San Jose, 58 points on this day and for the next number of games until the end of the season. It'll be over by the time we do our next offside with haas and mcguire.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to give the sharks a mention. And then, uh, yeah, chris, just, uh, we just passed gordy how's birthday, march 31st, march 31st, I think it should always be acknowledged. He, he's the greatest. Nobody had his combination of perseverance, longevity and excellence and toughness. That combination that Howe did had nobody else, despite being and I've been going back and forth with this guy on Twitter about it who's been. You know, he threw a bunch of names at me, like Messier and Aguinla and some others, and I went yeah, they're phenomenal, they're Hall of Famers. And you know, messier, stanley Cup, jerome never did. But I mean, who's going to take anything away from him? He's a Hall of Famer, he's fantastic. But they're not Gordie Howe.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, so you know, speaking of Gordie Howe's, there's another picture of bobby hall that's similar, but how's not working on the farm, though he wasn't I thought he was back. No, so you know the picture I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:I think he's in a fishing boat is the one year oh okay. Well, he's actually got a fishing rod in his hand and he's got no shirt on and it looks like he's getting ready for a bodybuilding competition, because he's absolutely ripped and this is like 1950.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'd be around 50 or 51. So people didn't look like that.
Speaker 2:No, Bobby Hull's picture, which came along right around that just a few years later, as he was embarking on his career in the NHL. He was a farmer. He grew up on a farm. Howell got his look from carrying bags of cement, so he worked in a cement factory. These bags, these sacks, got filled with cement and how's job was to truck them across the compound. They weighed 90 pounds each and he did it all day, every day, and they were 90 pounds and that's why his shoulders are sloped like they are from carrying those those pounds, those bags of cement. That's why his shoulders actually have a bit of a.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know it doesn't look natural, and it's not natural because at the age of 15 and 16 and 17, he's carrying 90-pound bags of cement across his compound and I think people forget the fact that these guys played in the NHL and then they went back to their hometowns and worked because they didn't make enough money to you know what I mean to to live on that, which is you know what? Uh, it is sad and it's just a fact of a fact of life, but but yeah, gordie, how they got screwed.
Speaker 2:The owners definitely did a number on them. Gordie how, until carl brewer. Uh, they sat in the dress room and brewer. Nobody talked about their salaries in those days. Nobody knew it was anybody was making, and Brewer told Howie what he was making, and Brewer was making more than Gordie Howe. I mean, it was sacrilegious. It was just dumbfounding for Howie to hear that news. Of course, he confronted Adams right away. The damage was mostly done. Gordie had been in the league 22, 23 years at that point, you know, um, whatever increase adams gave him, it mattered not how it was out of there in 71 and then came back in the wha. We know the rest of the story. Bottom line is, though, chris, has we just now, recently in the rearview mirror celebrated what would have been his 96th birthday? He'll be dead. It'll be eight years this june, june 10th right, and the nhl has never honored him. They said we will do something to honor Gordie Howe. They need to rename the Hart Memorial Trophy the Gordie Howe Memorial Trophy. They need to dust off some of these trophy names.
Speaker 1:Okay, so why did they take the title away from the sponsor's title away from Hart?
Speaker 2:Well, what do you mean? They haven't Like it is the Hart Trophy.
Speaker 1:No, no, what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, they haven't. They like it is no, no, what I'm saying. But yeah, yeah, well, the original heart in their mind, okay, these are owners. Yeah, in their mind, the, the, the owners, the only. Yeah, here's the thing about the nhl, right, I mean the end. The owners run, run the nhl, but they hired a guy like to be to run the nhl for them. They, they, of course, own the league. It's the ownership groups. Yeah, they hire gary bettman. He has his staff, bill daly and everybody else, and, and, and gary betman is paid an exorbitant salary to run the nhl on behalf of the owners. So, yes, the owners could band together and and step up and and and make this change.
Speaker 2:I use the precedent of the ted lindsey award, right, which was originally named after a prime minister of canada. Like I can't imagine something, I mean they changed. They took the prime minister of Canada. Like I can't imagine something, I mean they changed. They took the prime minister of Canada's name off the trophy and renamed it the Ted Lindsay award. So in my discussions with Bill Daley and I have had a couple with Bill Daley, um, in the New York office on over the phone and they weren't exactly the friendliest but we were polite to each other, I guess. But it was, I was upset and I'm still upset and I'll tell you why quickly here.
Speaker 2:The Hart trophy was originally named after a dentist. Okay, the guy was a dentist and then they took that trophy out of circulation in 1960. Nobody knows this. If you want to see Eddie Shores or Rocket Richards or Howie Morenza's name on the Hart Trophy, you're not going to see it on the current Hart Trophy. You have to go to the Hockey Hall of Fame where the original Hart Trophy is located. They renamed the next one the Hart Memorial Trophy in memory of this guy's son, in memory of this guy's son, okay, who was a coach in the NHL, cecil Hart. So the original one was called the Dr David.
Speaker 3:Hart Trophy.
Speaker 2:Okay, then it became the Hart Memorial Trophy, which it's been now since 1960. Just retire it, it doesn't mean it goes away.
Speaker 1:You know what? I have to agree with you, and I think that they should do this. First of all, they should move the Hockey Hall of Fame to Montreal, out of Toronto, okay, and I think they should take the Hart Trophy and the Art Ross Trophy and put it together as one trophy, and in Montreal it will be known as the Hart Ross Trophy. Wow, that's a long way to go.
Speaker 2:That was pretty quick, I'll give you credit for coming up with it as quick as you did. Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyways, the point is that, yes, you are right, they should, but you think it should be the Hart Trophy because it's the one that is most you know. I can say eligible, I have to be renamed. I think the Art Ross Trophy should be renamed, the Wayne Gret have to be renamed.
Speaker 2:I think the Art Ross trophy should be renamed the Wayne Gretzky trophy. I think the Hart trophy should be renamed the Gordie Howe Memorial. He won it six times. Gretzky won the Art Ross 10 times. You could even go so far as to come up with one for assists. You have one for goals. Why not assists? They broke up the goalie award. You know why not break up the defenseman award? Why not have the James Norris and the Bobby Orr, right? I mean, you could have the Bobby Orr could be the pick, just like you pick the other ones as to who was the best defenseman that year, and then the James Norris goes to the defenseman with the most points. Like there's lots of different things you could do.
Speaker 2:That I think should be investigated, but minimally. When Gordie Howe dies and and you make that statement public, and now it's coming on eight years and you haven't done a damn thing, and this, this is just. It's. It's so natural. And for the people who say you can't fuck around with the tradition or anything else, I have done an investigative search on this, chris, like you have. No, there's not one single member of the Hart family still alive Not one. There's nobody left. There's nobody to offend, there's nobody to to hang on.
Speaker 1:There's not. There's not a descendant? No, not one descendant of this guy who was the coach? That's right, cecil, no. Or his dad, or his dad. Yeah, there's not a single descendant, nobody, no, no, daughter marrieddo-well.
Speaker 2:No, no, not one Drunk from women's. There is not one member of the Hart family still alive.
Speaker 1:So, but then that begs, do we wipe them out?
Speaker 2:No, it goes to the. Here's the thing.
Speaker 1:It goes to the hockey hall thing.
Speaker 2:What's the biggest trophy of all? The Stanley Cup. Right, guess what?
Speaker 1:Every 14 years. Yeah, I know they take off people's names. Rocket's name is going to be off. It is already off. It's off, so is Gordie.
Speaker 2:Howes yeah, gordie Howes, you can't see Rocket, but they have those rings and that's where the original Hart Trophy is Right. They and you can see it in perpetuity. Just go in at your convenience and say, oh, there's the Hart Trophy. That existed until 2000. And here's the thing this year marks the 100th anniversary of the Hart Trophy. It started in 1924. Make this the last one.
Speaker 3:And then start the next one. That could happen.
Speaker 1:I know it's not going to.
Speaker 2:They're going to award it this year.
Speaker 1:And even though we're on a unless they do it this way. What if they do it this way? They for the the nhl awards for this year. Instead of awarding the heart trophy, they retire it 99 years. Yeah, yeah, and then rename it. I hate to say it, but you rename it after gretzky. Well, because then you'd have the 99 thing. It'd be a little quirky. Yeah, but people say yeah and then rename it. I hate to say it, but you rename it after Gretzky?
Speaker 2:Well, because then you'd have the 99 thing. It'd be a little quirky, yeah. But people say, well, you had no hockey in 2005. So you know, it's actually 98 years. And then you get caught in all that and then, frankly, I mean the Art Ross should be named after Wayne. He won it 10 times. I mean it's the one that should have his name on it because of what he did to the record book. The most points the synergy with Gretzky to me is points.
Speaker 3:You take the hard trophy, I'm just spitballing here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I like it.
Speaker 1:No, you're no good in the boardroom. I'm telling you, I'm fantastic.
Speaker 2:No, I'm absolutely fantastic. I'm the guy that's got all the facts and stats and I'm there just to bring some you know, some, some, so people can actually, you know, discuss and with, with, with all of the uh, with all with all of the actual data that's that's needed to make an informed decision. However, um, it's not going to happen. It's kind of like Paul Henderson for the hall. You know it's never going to happen. I know that now they'll never change the heart trophy. And there is, I think, another very significant reason, and I'm just not comfortable saying it on camera. Why? Because I'm just not.
Speaker 4:Oh, come on and uh listen, I just don't need the bullshit.
Speaker 1:I don't need anybody coming back on us because this thing's got a this point in the show. There's six people okay, probably, and here's the. I'm going to tell you something right now. As you know, I do my very best to say things that will piss well get people excited, whatever Doing, whatever.
Speaker 3:And nothing happens.
Speaker 1:Nobody does anything. Nobody gives a shit.
Speaker 2:Well, I told you I've gotten comments.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's Well I mean, you know I get them, but've only got like six. So, okay, one a month maybe, okay. So here's what. I say yeah To those chicken shit bastards who don't have the balls to fucking talk to me personally or say that, yeah, you guys are chicken shit bastards and don't deserve to watch the show. Fucking, tune out, go. Okay. So we've gone there. I've gone that way. I think I've offended the liberals there. Yeah, even you know whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that's, this is what I'm saying. You got to be okay with this.
Speaker 3:I can't.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, you do it in the pub. Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1:And we said this is going to be like two guys at a pub, I know, but it's a little bit on the risque side, so I'll tell you off the air and then you can decide next show. Okay, all right, we'll do that. All right. So for now, yeah, that's been this week in hockey history. Yeah, sounds good. Okay, all right, we are back and, uh, we're gonna you know we're gonna do this time we're gonna do ask li. Know what we're going to do this time. We're going to do Ask Liam. Wow, it's about time, okay.
Speaker 2:I rarely get a chance to talk.
Speaker 1:This is the part of the show where we ask Liam a question okay, yeah, and then he gives us the answer. You know, and if I can stump him, that type of thing, you know we get a pitcher of beer. But a question, okay, yeah, and then he gives us the answer, and if I can stump him, that type of thing, you know we get a pitcher of beer. But this question actually came through to Liam, so I believe that you have the Excuse me. Anyway, how's that? You know what? You never see Anybody burp in a show. No, not in the NHL. No, no, no, it doesn't happen on Hockey Night in Canada. No, I've been suffering from this acid reflux thing. Yeah, it's not good. No, I have no idea why, no, but it's. I've never had it before.
Speaker 2:I've never had, but I've never had any, but geez, it's you know, yeah, so apparently I should be drinking less, but you, don't drink that much.
Speaker 1:No, it gets bad with my whiskey. Oh, really, you know it's supposed to burn, but not, apparently, you know, forever. Well, just follow my lead. I can't. Are you kidding? I don't have a liver that large, it's, you know? So, okay. So this is the question, liam, because it was a big thread on Twitter, as you were saying.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, big thread on Twitter we're doing it today.
Speaker 1:And it. You know, and I don't understand why it was a big thing on Twitter.
Speaker 2:Just because the company or not the company, um, the thread started with uh, there's a number of, of, vintage type of of, uh, what do you call it? Uh, twitter feeds. Twitter feeds, okay, that that do a lot of of, um, of, like they do their own this days, or their own they pick players, or they have old photos and so where the salming came up, is that?
Speaker 2:no, the number 21 it was, it was. It wasn't salming originally, it was just they said they picked this. This particular thread sometimes just picks something totally random, got nothing to do with the date, got nothing to do with a player or a team. They just said hey, hey guys, we're just sitting around here today, over here at uh, at our site, and we're wondering who do you guys think was the best number 21 in NHL history? So who's the best number 21? Well, there's no question, stan Mikita, like Stan Mikita is the best number 21. There's just no doubt about it and who's second best then.
Speaker 2:Well then, you're getting into. You're getting into.
Speaker 1:You know where, where you you slot a guy like a Doug Jarvis versus you're not going to tell me Dougie Jarvis is better than than and and listen, and I'm not a Toronto fan yeah but he's not better than Borya Salmi well, borya Salmi, two different players, but yeah, but you know I mean I would even argue that Borya Salmi, uh, as an all-round player and don't get me wrong, I hate to say anything bad about Stan Mikita because he's an original Blackhawk, he's from the era that. You know what I mean, but Borja Salmi's got to be there.
Speaker 2:Well, he's in the top three for sure. I think I can safely say that, all depending where you want to put somebody like Forsberg, you get into some others, but I think historically you want to put somebody like Forsberg. Or you know, you get into some others, but I think historically you want to give Salome his due.
Speaker 4:Uh, he's in the top three minimally and maybe top two.
Speaker 2:I could certainly go along with that. However, he's not supplanting Stan Mikita's number one. I mean Stan Mikita's, a Stanley Cup winner, a four-time Art Ross Trophy winner, first guy to win three trophies in one season.
Speaker 1:Should the Art Ross Trophy be called the art?
Speaker 2:no, no, no but you know as it was, and stan won it four times in five years. Boria never even won a norris, I mean boring was great, but but here's the thing.
Speaker 1:Boria was in a I I like to call it the ballard years, the ballard years, and you know what? There's a lot of things that if boria saw me what?
Speaker 2:tell me a year where he was going to beat out any of the guys he lost to?
Speaker 1:You heard this story. Maybe you weren't with us, I think you were. Somebody told us how Harold Ballard used to bring people in to the Leafs change room to check out Borya Salming, his manhood, while he was in the shower. Do you remember that? No, oh, so I wasn't with you. I was with. It was some ex Toronto Maple Leaf player, yeah, who was telling me. I won't mention his name, ben. I thought you remembered who it was, so it wasn't you. Okay, that Ballard used to bring like guys like coming you're not going to believe this and they would take him and walk him in to check out how big Well, I got to change my boat then apparently I got to make him the best number 21.
Speaker 2:Well, no, no, I found that, you know, but anyway. But I mean, salmi was phenomenal. But the thing is, at the end of the day, there's a rush sometimes to want to anoint players in certain ways that they don't deserve. They're just getting the accolades because they did have a huge impact, right, and they were obviously extremely good and everything else. But I mean, what year did he not should he have won the norris trophy, tell me? And there's just no way. I mean the year's pot may have won it One of those years, the year of Larry Robinson?
Speaker 1:No, no, listen, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, For Bobby Orr, I know, oh no no, hey, listen, I don't disagree there.
Speaker 1:Brad Park didn't win a Norse, I know. And Brad Park still has not had his fucking number retired, which actually bothers me a lot. Okay, because you know. Whether you retire as a Ranger or a Bruin, I don't care.
Speaker 2:But Brad Park is in that in my mind should be a retired. You can't retire as a Bruin. I mean, you could, of course.
Speaker 1:You could, but you know my point is that should be brad park, probably one of the greatest defensemen of all.
Speaker 2:No question, six runner-ups six runner-ups for the norris. So you know the whole thing about salming and number 21, yeah, so the threat, so you will continue.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, number 21, 21, yeah, so it started that way. And then the thread somebody. It just goes from there. If you guys are familiar with twitter, I know I'm supposed to call it. It's always going to be Twitter to me, I don't give a shit. And then about halfway down the thread and I like to scroll down because even some guys they make mistakes they have guys who weren't number 21. I go no, he was number 19. You know he got the number wrong or whatever. I just have some fun, I post it. And then someone says hey, well, who was the first ever number 21? I mean Matt, you know he should be acknowledged. You know we started this thread of number 21s and then, of course, that begins a sub-thread and in that someone said hey ask Liam McGuire.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:I just happened to know it.
Speaker 1:So the question is is who was the original? The very first number, 21?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this is not with definitive 1,000% proof, reason being Chris, definitive 1000 proof. Reason being chris, that the documentation of the sweater numbers right those first 20 years in the nhl is spotty okay at best okay.
Speaker 1:So you've got, we've got to look at game sheets scoring sheets, yeah and see who's like, yeah, who who was wearing?
Speaker 2:21. That's right, first time listed. That's right and and to my knowledge, again not a thousand percent confirmed on this. But a player by the name of Art Coulter went by the nickname Trapper and he got traded from the Rangers to excuse me, from the Chicago Blackhawks to New York Rangers 1936, 37. He was wearing 17 with Chicago and he won a Stanley Cup with the Hawks in 1934. Gets traded to the Rangers within a year and a half. They named him captain okay, and he had taken 21 in the trade. He couldn't get 17, took 21, went the next season to number two, which is the number he would have probably ended up with had he stayed in Chicago. He eventually would have got a lower number In those days. Sweater numbers, the single digits, got the lower berths on the train.
Speaker 2:That's a cool story, I love that and that's how Gordie Howe got nine. But I mean, everybody was obviously hoping at some point they'd be up for a single digit number. Coulter was the very next year, 37, 38. Number yeah, coulter was the very next year, 37, 38 and uh. And then a couple years later, while captain of new york rangers, he captained them the stanley cup in 1940. So he not only to make all-star teams, he played on two cup winners, one. He was captain two different teams and he got inducted the hockey hall of fame 1975. By my research over time I believe he's the first number 21, 1936, 37. I could stand to be corrected because, like I said, it's uh, and you're right, that's a good point. The game sheets, I believe, do have. I think I think they've got the sweater numbers for those games in 1920s you know what we have to do.
Speaker 1:We have to because I know the NHL went through all they did, they did, they did. Yeah, we've got to get access to that database, oh no, we can, it's online.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you can do it. I just don't know if they've got all the sweater numbers.
Speaker 1:I want to know how to search that.
Speaker 2:Well, you just go on NHLcom. You can do it however way you want. You can go by date, you can go by team, you can go by player. All the logs are there, all the games are there. And you're right, the sweater numbers should all be there now. They should all be there, and that would be another something else to research. And you know, that's number 21.
Speaker 1:I think it was Trapper. This is why they pay me the big money, right?
Speaker 2:Well you, why they pay me the big money right?
Speaker 4:well, you deserve every penny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you deserve every penny, and in fact you're, you're underpaid, at twice the rate. Oh, I, you know, I'm gonna see to that. I'm gonna talk to HR and you know get.
Speaker 2:I want more beer and I want more money for you. But anyway, little fun thread. I just thought it was kind of cool. I get tagged on these things, chris, and you know if people uh, whether they shoot a question through, uh through offside with Hodges and or you know, I field probably, you know, 20 or 30 in the average week, but so it's always fun just to grab one. This had no bearing on any date or anything like that. But Trapper Coulter the interesting thing, they say the nickname was because he was so good on defense. You know it was, oh, he just traps all the pucks. He was a great, phenomenal shot blocker. But I also heard another story that allegedly that he was nicknamed trapper because john coulter, the legendary frontiersman, the man who discovered the yellowstone national park, okay, and then was involved in just a horrendous um firefight with uh the uh, uh with the Blackfeet Indian.
Speaker 1:Blackfoot Indians. Blackfoot Indians yeah, I think they were just one Blackfoot. Okay, yeah, and then if there's more of them, they're still Blackfoots. I don't think they're feet, are they not? It's like moose and meese, okay.
Speaker 2:I got you. Okay. Apologies then if I said that incorrectly, but I believe it was the early 1800s. I'm not sure of all that, but I do know the guy's name was Coulter and his nickname was Trapper.
Speaker 1:Okay, and he's not the famous Mad Trapper or whatever. I don't think so. No, I know, I'm just kidding and I don't think it's Trapper John from.
Speaker 2:MASH.
Speaker 2:No, it's not, but interestingly enough, art Coulter was nicknamed Trapper and I always thought maybe there was some synergy with Coulter, who discovered Yellowstone National Park and he got in this fight. He was captured by the Indians. His partner was killed, dismembered. They told Coulter take all his clothes off, including his moccasins, and they made him run, said if you can outrun us, you can get away. And this is all true. You can look it up. And you can get away. And this is all true, you can look it up.
Speaker 2:And the natives chased him and he ran so fast. So far there was really only one native that was relatively close, to staying close with him with his spear or weapons, and Colter just hid. The native came up, colter jumped him. They had a fight. Colter killed him and took his moccasins, whatever, took his spear, and then when the rest caught up, he'd gone on right a scene out of a movie. He went into a small little pond that was right there and he just went under the water, one of those reeds, and he just hid in the water. Okay, and that's how he got away. They came, they found their dead, comrade.
Speaker 1:Well, they're not very good trappers, those black people.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna say, you know, well, you know, maybe there wasn't, uh, maybe there wasn't, the footprints, I don't know. I think it was around 1808 or something. You know the footprints, maybe I, I don't know, but it's, it's, uh, it's. I've really gone off base there, but no, no, it's an interesting story.
Speaker 1:I thought that was a. Now here's a question for you. This is a linguistic question, because you brought up the black foot. Black feet, undoubtedly said it wrong. Moose mooses, as it is not me right, right, geese and goose right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, beer, beer. How many beer do you drink? You have one beer. Yeah, you have two beers or two beer. Is beer automatically a plural? I think it's plural with the s and the apostrophe after well, you think no, no, apostrophe, that means it's possessive, it means it's your beers. That's right. Beers, is it's beers?
Speaker 2:my beers. Okay, exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:No, no, so, but if what you think? So when you go, when you drink beer you know, I had 12 beers last night. No, or 12 beers Because I say pints Right. Okay, so I don't, and only because sometimes it's milk you're drinking.
Speaker 2:I remember that one time, I think it was 79. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, it was a white Russian. No, no, but it's a valuable question. Yeah, whether or not, because I've had this discussion, I think beer is plural on its own.
Speaker 2:I think it how many beers you had last night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, three beer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I don't think the.
Speaker 2:S is necessary. How many beers, how many pints, how many?
Speaker 1:beer did you have last night?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, you wouldn't say beers, exactly, you would say beer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know, know, I'll take six beer please. Maybe bob and doug would do that, yeah, which, by the way, somebody says to me because you know, you guys are an awful lot like bob and doug mckenzie, you should do like a thing. And I was like I am not, I am not doing that, okay, but uh, but we should end this. Yeah, okay, yeah, all right, yeah, uh, and as we always end it, which is kind of Bob and Doug McKenzie way, yeah, okay, I say this has been, you know, offside with House of Grimes right, okay.
Speaker 1:And then you end it with G'day hey.
Speaker 2:Okay, there you go, there's our ode to Bob and Doug.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we didn't even know we were doing it. No, we didn't even know we were doing it. But somebody said to me this week you know, yeah, you guys are kind of like a modern day, bob and Doug McKenzie. Well, there's some truth to that.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're drinking pints.
Speaker 1:We're drinking pints. We're on camera. Yeah, it's a low budget.
Speaker 2:Some of the linguistic comments would be similar to them. Yeah, absolutely the dialect that I use.
Speaker 1:a lot is Well. I'm Now, which leads me before we say goodbye, it leads me to Now. We're not doing a Zamboni boy for this week.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I am going to bring up a. We should do another one next show. I'm going to bring up a gentleman who passed away. Oh yeah, yeah, another one next show. I'm gonna bring up a a gentleman who passed away.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, um joe flarity, oh, yeah, okay, yeah, so from, uh, from sctv and uh, you know everyone.
Speaker 1:Everyone remembers him as the character in happy gilmore right of late, but you don't know this. But uh, grace was in a show with joe flarity, okay, okay, called. Uh, okay called Uncle Joe's Cartoon Playhouse. Nice guy met him. You were there for a few days. Super nice guy, very talented, originally American, okay, but liked Canada, liked living here over going to the States, and he could have gone back to the US at any time. I'd had a chat with him and so he would go down and do a few things, but he preferred Canada over that, which was an interesting thing. But you know what? He was a great writer, comedic talent, decent guy who you know what, didn't get the massive fame that some of the other guys from SCTV did, right, yeah, but you know what didn't get the massive fame that some of the other guys from SCTV did, right, but you know what. Kudos to him and I guess, rest in peace and all those other things, 100%. So to that end, this has been Offside with Haas McGuire, I'm Haas and I'm McGuire, g'day hey.
