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The Price You Pay
Host Natalie Cook, Olympic gold medalist and five-time Olympian, shares the inspiring and untold stories of athletes who face financial obstacles in their pursuit of becoming Olympian's and Paralympian’s.
Discover the sacrifices, challenges, and unwavering determination behind their pursuit of greatness.
Be inspired by their resilience and determination to turn their dreams into reality.
The Price You Pay
12: Triathlete Jack Howell's Path to Paris Paralympics 2024
What would you sacrifice for a dream?
(Keep in mind that this conversation took place months before qualifying for Paris Paralympics 2024)
Uncover the extraordinary story of Jack Howell, a World Triathlon Paralympic Series champion, and his mother, Therese, who have gone above and beyond to support his journey to the Paris Paralympic Games.
- Jack's grueling training regime - the physical and emotional toll it takes.
- Mum Therese shares how she remortgaged their home to keep her son's dream alive.
- The controversial paratriathlon classification process.
- Candid reflections on how his impairment affects his performance in swimming, biking, and running, and the specialized equipment that helps him succeed.
- A Mum's heartfelt revelations about learning of her son's condition during pregnancy
The world of para-athletics is more than just competition; it's a testament to human spirit and perseverance. We discuss:
- Jack’s transition from a national swimmer to a triathlete and the critical role of financial support in this families quest for excellence.
- A spotlight is shone on the financial disparities faced by para-athletes.
Jack’s journey serves as a powerful call to action for better support systems. Don't miss this compelling episode that not only celebrates athletic triumph but also underscores the importance of family, sacrifice, and ambition.
Become a part of our athletes' success stories: Whether its a personal donation, a corporate partnership, a round of golf, or simply by spreading the word, your support has the power to uplift our athletes and inspire countless others!
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My name is Talika Clancy and my mob is the Willy Willy people. I am the first Indigenous beach volleyball player in the world to win an Olympic medal and I honour my ancestors in that endeavour. The host of this podcast, nat Cook, has been a guide for me and my family as I travelled the road to my sporting dreams. We wish to acknowledge the land on which the price you pay podcast is being recorded minijin country, commonly known as brisbane. We are inspired by the world's oldest living culture and seek wisdom from the people who came before us, the yaggara and durable people. We pay homage to the tradition of storytelling when we share athletes journeys and we extend our respect to all aboriginal and torres strait Islander peoples as the first Australians.
Nat Cook:Welcome to season two of the Price you Pay podcast, devoted to bringing you the real stories of what it takes for young athletes and their families to realise their dreams. I'm your host, nat Cook, five-time Olympian and gold medalist. It's my mission to uncover the hidden costs, the sacrifices, and shine a light on the tenacity these athletes demonstrate on the road to their dreams. My vision is to create a sustainable funding model for our Aussie athletes. The time has come to go beyond just enjoying an athlete's performance to actually having their backs, both emotionally and financially. So while I'm off raising funds, doing what I do best, our pod partner, chatterbox, is talking to our athletes and their families. Over to you, sarah.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Thanks, Nat. These athletes and their families are in good hands. Today we get to hear from World Triathlon Paralympic Series champion Jack Howell and his mom, Therese. Series champion Jack Howell and his mom, Therese. Jack's winning ways have him now ranked number three in the world triathlon para qualifying points for the Paris Paralympics. He is the youngest competitor in the world para triathlon PTS5 category, at only 20 years of age and, just for some perspective, the current world number one is 34 years old. So you get the drift. With all of that success, you might be surprised to hear that the family has had to remortgage their home to supplement the more than $20,000 debt that they have been accruing year on year.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Triathlon is an expensive sport Two bikes, spare wheels, race wheels, wetsuit training shoes, race shoes, bike shoes, helmets, sunglasses and goggles, to name a few. That doesn't even make a dent into what it costs for the multiple overseas competitions required to retain ranking points. So on average, 20,000 plus for travel expenses alone. And yet Jack is passionate and he has his keen eye on the Paris Paralympic Games. I'm so looking forward to hearing what drives this young man to all his athletic successes and what kind of family he has that backs him so unconditionally. So welcome Jack and mom Therese to the Price you Pay podcast.
Jack Howell :Thank you very much, it's a pleasure.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):All right, you two. So Jack gets to go first. Mom, I hope that's okay. They tell me they can both talk. She had an expression about talk underwater with marbles or something, so that must be an Australian expression that I don't know. But Jack is going to see what he's got. So I'd love a glimpse, jack, into your preparation for the most recent world triathlon, paris series in Davenport, so like what is some of the training that you did in the lead up to that event?
Jack Howell :Yeah, so pretty much for me, training is fairly consistent, even if there's a race coming up and on a weekly basis. What training sort of looks like for me is about four or five runs at about 8 to 15K depending on the day or the session, About six rides totalling about 10 to 13 hours and about six swims toting about 25k a week, plus two gym sessions and then one Pilates as well. So if you're counting the sessions, it's around about 20 or so sessions a week and about 25 hours of training.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):so so you get that number like you need to hit those targets, and then you decide how you split that up, or some a coach tells you how to do that no, no, so that's just um, that's the totals.
Jack Howell :Um, so I train um at the runaway bay performance center with um, the, the junior coach for triathlon australia. Yeah, um, as well, as we also train alongside the elite squad as well, so the guys that are going to olympics and things like that. So, um, I have a coach and he um, he allocates all of the sessions and the times and everything um, and runs my training program as well. As the qas has access to um handing out like, yeah, all of my physio and like my gym coach and some sort of those more specific ones like nutritionists and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's a bit of a teamwork between my coach and the QAS.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):And do you train with the able-bodied athletes and the para-athletes together? Is that what I just got there?
Jack Howell :Yeah, yeah, so I've just recently moved up to the Gold Coast and I am one of only two para-athletes at the moment. One's very so she's a talent transfer athlete, so she's just come from swimming, but before her I was the only para athlete training with about 15 able-bodied athletes.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Interesting. So give us a description of your sport, in particular your category and how your equipment sort of gets adjusted in order to fulfill on some of the things that you have going on in particular.
Jack Howell :Yeah, so the sport obviously is a triathlon. So we've got the three legs of swimming, riding and running and really the difference between a normal triathlon and the paratriathlon is obviously all of the impairments. So we have four standing categories, we call them. So that's your limb deficiencies and sort of those muscular disorders, and then we have two of the side categories, which are obviously wheelchair and tandem, so the blinds. So for me, my class, we're what's called PTSts5. So that's how, um, if you're looking at the numbers, that's the least impaired in terms of um, the disabilities that you're looking at. So for us that sort of um looks like, um, some people with clubfoot, some people like myself missing a hand or having like smaller hands and sort of just generally like one sort of area of the body that's impacted, whereas the further down you go so we've got pts5 all the way down to pts2, okay, and sort of if you break it down to what those categories look like there the more impaired you get.
Jack Howell :So the twos are pretty much where you've got. Like, for example, both of your legs are severely impacted so you might have like cerebral palsy or something like that has a range of impacts to triathlon, being that also, looking at triathlon, you have to look at each leg as well and what the disability impacts it on as well. So for me the biggest impacts are swimming and riding. Obviously the running. I've got two fully functioning legs so um, running isn't the hardest to do with my impairment um, there's the small things that play into it, but for the most part it's fairly effortless. Versus riding and swimming, um, they have the biggest sort of impacts to my triathlon.
Jack Howell :So, answering your question about sort of what um changes and um adaptions that I've sort of had to make for my impairment um, being that I have, um I have some small wrist moving in my hand, but it's um fairly um has no functional grip um on the bike and sort of no catch in the water. So with swimming there's not really much much adaptations you can make other than stroke changes and things like that. So just making sure that I'm not swimming in circles or constantly swimming into the lane rope and things like that, which is all just to do with stroke correction and how I'm actually swimming in the water, which is my coach's job. And then on the bike I've got a few sort of equipment changes. And then on the bike I've got a few sort of equipment changes. So I've actually had the AIS engineers print out and scan copies of my hand and then making molds so that they attach to my handlebars so that I can sort of place my hand in sort of like a cup so that I don't fall off the bike.
Jack Howell :Fall off the bike or I have some cause. I can ride a bike without the adaptations, but having the ability to sort of lock my hands in and actually get the most out of the functional grip I do have just gives me a little bit better handling on the bike, which is an advantage for me.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Yeah, no kidding, I have so many questions. We're coming, I promise, and we're gonna have a nice entry because your son's gonna introduce you. But first I I just have to know how do you get tested for your category, like, is it a medical team? I don't know, I've never. I always wanted to know that. How do they know?
Jack Howell :great question and it's probably ask any para athlete and it's probably the most controversial process that you have to go through. Um, essentially, um, every para sport has like a classification. It's called, and it's basically in most sports like swimming and cycling and triathlon, it's a panel of two or three people. One of them has to be like a physio, so they have to have sort of a general knowledge of body parts and range of motion and things like that, and then another one can be sort of someone that um is knowledgeable in the, the classification process.
Jack Howell :So for triathlon, being that it's three sports, you can imagine it's fairly hectic, sure, um? So essentially, the way triathlon works is each area of your body is broken into sort of two categories it's muscular strength and range of motion, and then they get graded out of five for then each individual body part, so everything from feet to ankles, knees, hips, your back, your shoulders, knees, hips, your back, your shoulders, head, range of motion, um, muscular strength, and all those areas as well. So then it gets broken down into five points and then you get graded out of five on those areas. Yeah, so, and then there's also somewhere in there there's also it gets impacted based on the sport of which it impacts as well, so like whether you need a bike adaptation and stuff like that.
Jack Howell :So the easiest way I can explain it to you in triathlon is if you can imagine all of those sums of five get added up and then the total of those are, then what places you in your category? What places you in your category? So for me and for the people that have a singular impairment, so like a missing arm or a club foot or something like that, you pretty much get fives everywhere bar the area of your impairment. So I pretty much for everywhere in my legs I get a five. For everywhere in my torso I get a five. Every of my right hand side I get a five. And then it's just my shoulder, my elbows and my size of my left hand that get graded, if that makes sense.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):But you can imagine, but you're a PTS five.
Jack Howell :Yes.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):So if you were a four like, let's say, they graded you a four is the controversy that all the other athletes then judge and you know, say he's really not?
Jack Howell :a four, he's a five, like is that, is that a thing? Oh, it's, it's very common. Um, and the thing is, is with that process, very rarely do you get people that are definites, if that makes sense. So I'm borderline, so I'm within six points of being not eligible, which means that if I had that total sum be six points more, I wouldn't be allowed to race paratriathlon. But that's very common in paratriathlon.
Jack Howell :There's probably in my category there's probably out of the the 15 competitive guys, there's probably six of them that are in that sort of similar area, and it's the same with the fours. So if you have someone get reclassified, for example, and they go from a five to a four, but everyone in the fours thinks, well, hang on, but he was racing a five, so what, what's changed? Sort of thing, and that's where the controversy starts. So, and the thing is as well, is like, like myself, although my disability is quite visual and I'm actually physically missing my hand, I have a lot of underlying impairments as well that have contributed that to like. So, like my shoulder range of motion isn't quite a hundred percent. My size of my bones in my left arm, my whole arm, are different, so it's just those small things and, yeah, it's very controversial, um, and, of course, everyone and every country is allowed to protest the decision that they don't think is maybe correct. Okay, and that's where that whole process starts, I guess.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):And I bet, the better that you are, the more they want to get involved. And that's the thing as well.
Jack Howell :So that was one of the things that was very hard to judge as well is, um, they also sort of they have to try and set an age limit as well to when you can get classified, because if you can imagine, myself at 15 years old probably wasn't as strong in my arm as myself now at 20. But how can you concur that that's just general ability over their actual disability in the impairment? So it's very complex like and I've probably missed a lot of areas and but that's my, it's.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Thank you for that, because I think that I I guess, yeah, we all if we don't live that, we don't know how it works. And also I've always wondered what that mentality must be like trying to prove your disability, like almost like whether people want to be ranked, have a lower number or not. Exactly right.
Jack Howell :So especially, especially, probably two years ago, when I was turning 18, I had quite a range of differentiations of opinions in. I'd have to go to a classification for my sport where I'm trying to prove that I'm disabled enough to even race, but then I'd have to go apply and go for my license and driving license and I have to prove that I'm able enough to go for my license. So, I'm trying to prove both ends.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):And as a as a paraathlete.
Jack Howell :I'm probably I'm sure I'm not the only person that has that but it does get very tiring and my mom sitting next to me does a lot of the helping around as well, because it's very hard and like. So, for instance, I, when I got classified for my first time, I got knocked back so I actually was told that I wasn't eligible to race paratriathlon. I didn't have enough um impairment, which was crazy because there's people with my exact same condition that race in my category. So another controversy as well with categorization is depending on the the physio that you get, they can obviously their personal opinions of what's grading it. So if they don't think that a certain aspect is as impactful as another person, then there's controversy again.
Jack Howell :But luckily I had a few things fall in place a lot of hard work, but had COVID hit right around that time so I had a bit of time to prepare because I was entitled to a review so I could get a different panel to come look in. So I got a review, which meant that I had a second chance. So what we ended up doing was a lot of behind the scenes, got a lot of testing done, got a lot of um like, yeah, lots of testing, lots of range of motion, uh, range of movement, um testing. Lots of muscular testing, everything to try and get physical numbers to prove as well.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Um, that's a weird mentality when you're trying to be your strongest, your best yes, yes, you're trying to excel and trying to be the best at the same time prove this. Um, yeah, that's.
Jack Howell :That's just a really interesting idea so triathlon is probably the probably the worst example of a classification you can get is if you can imagine swimming. It has a obviously being an older sport. They have it pretty knuckled down in that they rarely get those sort of controversies. But you can also imagine as all swimming has about. I think it's about like 15 or 16 different um classification, like um black criteria, if that makes sense.
Taliqua Clancy:So like we've got.
Jack Howell :We've got seven, including wheelchair and blinds, versus swimming has 15. So they can narrow it down a lot further and there's less controversy because you end up being within people that have very similar impairments. So like, for example, an s10 in swimming, they generally are either missing their arms or missing their like a lower body proportion. So everyone's pretty fair. Um, versus. In triathlon you can have, you can be a pts5 at the lowest point, racing someone who's a pts5 at the least impaired point and you're still in the same class yeah, exactly unfortunately, for triathlon we don't have nor the amount of competitors or the ability to have more competitors.
Jack Howell :To then break it down even further, um, because per category, like pts5, being that their disabilities are probably more common for those lesser disabilities, we have, I think, about um 85 people in the world that are in the the rankings, which is fairly high, versus, like the pts2s have about 18 per gender. So, um, that's where it's like it could be better, but, given the instance and given the amount of people that do race triathlon, we're sort of stuck at a railroad, I guess and like, yeah, things are evolving so much um in in para as well.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):So thank you for that insight. Your mom has been so patient listening and she's like come on, but I would love you to introduce your mom to raise onto the call with an example or a moment that you can think about, where you knew for sure, a sporting moment where you knew that she really had your back where you knew for sure, a sporting moment where you knew that she really had your back.
Jack Howell :So it's going to sound very counterintuitive, but I am going to tell the story of my first triathlon and how I come about that. So, essentially, to try and shorten the story a little bit, I was a swimmer at this current time and I was a national swimmer, so I love swimming and it was all I could think about, um, and for whatever reason, I think either I'd done some jobs or around the house or I just somehow ended up with some pocket money and, um, I remember the day my mum was actually picking me up from swim training and the shopping centre is just across the road and my sister was showing me all of these things that she bought with her pocket money and she was like, oh, look at these. I got like some like shirts and like this, this um makeup or something, and I was like, oh, so like we have our pocket money now. Mum's like, yeah, yeah, do you know what you like want to spend your pocket money on? I? I'm like, wow, there's this local triathlon that I want to give a crack down the road and the entry fee is exactly how much pocket money I have. And she's like, are you sure, like, you can spend the pocket money on anything? Are you sure you want to spend it on this triathlon, which you've never done before? You don't, you don't have a bike, anything and anything. And I'm like, yep, that's what I want to spend.
Jack Howell :And she's like, all right, um, thinking nothing of it. She was hoping, probably, that I would think that it was the hardest sport in the world and I'd be like, nah, no more, I'll just stick to swimming ended up going to this triathlon. It was on a stationary bike at a local pool, so you didn't need a bike. Um, and it was pretty much. You rode on the stationary bike, got in the water, swam and then did a like a.
Jack Howell :It was a very short triathlon but you know, being my first one, it sucked, but I enjoyed every second of it and I actually had a few people who were racing that come up to me because I won, by the way, I won my first triathlon, um, by the way. And and they actually came up to me and like, oh, do you like, did you triathlon? And I was like, oh, no, no, this is my first triathlon. Like you have to do this. Like like I don't care. Like you have to convince your mum that like this is what you need because you're like so naturally good at this, and I was like, oh well, maybe, um, and pretty much the rest is history. I think mom probably tried to convince me maybe five or six times, like are you sure like this is like we're gonna have to buy a bike? Like this is expensive. I'm like, no, this is the best sport ever, like good try, mom, you almost, you almost saved your mortgage.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):The.
Jack Howell :The rest is history, I think. But then in saying that after that it was all go ahead, with all the support, it didn't take me long to find a coach and have a bike on my sleeve and get into a few races. But I just find it funny how my career was started so abruptly. But also I was told many times like are you sure? Like it's just it's not cheap, like you know, and I was like just that adamant. And then you know. But here we are today.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):You probably spurred him on mom in the end. But well, we really welcome you to the call. You being on here is really important, because not only can we see that you've been there at every step, I'd love to hear that moment, you know, when you get told at 17 weeks pregnant that your unborn child would have simbrachydactyly I hope I'm pronouncing that right which is the loss and you'll tell us a little bit more, i'm'm sure but resulted in the loss of the left hand and now affects his left arm and shoulder. And what? What is that even like? What do you feel when you get that news?
Mom Therese :yeah, that was um a big shock. So Jack's our first born child and, um, so you know the usual excitement for first ultrasound on your baby and, and you know we were looking forward to, you know, like the those moments, you know those movie moments where you get to see the heartbeat and you get to see this little, you know baby on the screen, and and we had all that. But the whole time the lady was doing the ultrasound she was very quiet, she wasn't really talking. We were having to prompt the conversation and, uh, you know, um, we, it was all very awkward. And then, uh, she brought in, uh, the specialist who then broke the news to my husband and I and of course I was like, show me, show me on the screen what are you talking about?
Mom Therese :and uh, and I had like a million, like I was like, well, how does this happen? You know, is it like? Is it like, is it still gonna grow, like this is how I'm like I'm like you could see.
Mom Therese :You could see that there was no hand yeah, it was vague like they weren't quite sure if it might be a small unformed hand or have some bones. We weren't quite sure exactly what it would look like, but they could see that it had not fully developed. And yeah, so, shock like not quite sure how to digest it. But we had an appointment with the obstetrician straight afterwards. Straight afterwards and uh, unfortunately for us, um, the first words out of the obstetrician's mouth was uh, you on your forms. You said that you don't take drugs.
Mom Therese :Oh, what so the impact, of course, is, you know, you're already, you're just in this pool of thought going how does this even happen? I don't know. I've never heard of this. I don't know what this looks like. Is anything else wrong with my baby?
Mom Therese :I had so many questions, I had so much more investigation I wanted to do. I was like, okay, well, I think the next step would be you know, I'm non-scientific or non-knowledgeable at this point, but I know that there's more in-depth scans that can be done. I know that there's more things, there's more questions, there's more you know. And then to like, straight up front, have someone basically say, well, you must have taken drugs. I've only and he actually said I've only ever seen this happen one other time and it was in a drug user. And one other time and it was in a drug user.
Mom Therese :And so, um, so we walked away in tears and really upset and confused. He didn't even plan any further scans or anything. And so we, basically we, my husband and I, walked out of that. We went and sat and had a meal at um, a local restaurant, just to digest and debrief. And um, you know, and straight away we were both like, well, let's go to the gp tomorrow and we're gonna sack the obstetrician because that's not okay, and we're gonna talk to the gp about what they think and we're gonna ask for more scans. Let's get a full understanding, uh, of you know what we're up for here and um, and so we kind of went straight into plan of action mode. You know what's next, what do we need to identify?
Mom Therese :So so, down the track, you know the further scans and we identified that, other than that, his hand, perfectly healthy, you know, uh, and I always laugh, I sort of say you know, he's not even allergic to anything. It's just like you know. And it's like his hand is like you know, um, and for the listeners to describe Jack's hand, uh, stops at the wrist bone, so there's nothing beyond the wrist. Um, he does have a wrist. So the flesh that's there at the bottom of your palm is basically what Jack's little hand looks like, and there's actually five tiny little bubbles of flesh. So they're like little fingers that never happened, and they're like a little fleshy little bubble that can move around.
Mom Therese :And Jack is currently playing with them, yeah yeah, they're just like loose little bubbles of flesh um, but do you ever?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):in your when you were doing maths. When you were young, jack, did you ever use your fingers? Because my daughter always counts on her fingers did you ever use those? Yeah, well, I've got still 10 fingers still count to 10, so when he?
Mom Therese :was born. When he was born, I remember saying to my husband he can count 10 fingers and I mean you're just kidding.
Mom Therese :I remember saying, uh, you're. I often describe Jack's hand as it's like, uh, in the very, very early stages of the, the formation of this little baby, that something just stopped. It's like a rosebud that just never opened. And these fingers, uh, yeah, they're like the beginnings of fingers and they just stopped for some reason. So, um, but, yeah, so we, you, my husband and I spoke and, you know, knowing that our child was going to be born with some variation of a disability and born different, if you like, um, it was about a blessing and a curse, like it did impact on the pregnancy.
Mom Therese :You know, I was quite stressed and there were times that I was upset, which is not great for a pregnancy, um, but what it did give us was, you know, it gave us time to accept and to be ready for Jack um, in how we, we, we total our family and friends, so there would be no shock at his birth, um, and we started to celebrate him before he was even here and so that it could be a happy moment and, uh, and we were kind of as parents, we talked about how we would parent this child and you know, um, my husband is very salt of the earth and I was probably more worried than him, and he's like a kind of sure, we're right, mate we'll work it out, she'll be right sorry, dad, you're not and uh, you know, and and that is like and, and just to have him very calm and and really stable and already very accepting, just kind of made it like just so much easier and um, yeah, so we, we didn't even.
Mom Therese :We've always asked every scan and they were so detailed we'd be like don't tell us the sex, because we know everything else about this baby.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Yeah, you know about his shoulder bones and every aspect of his arm.
Mom Therese :One surprise, um, so yeah, so jack was, um, you know I laugh because we went to a wedding in Canberra at 33 weeks and the night before the wedding, jack decided that, uh, he was uh already very competitive and he wanted to beat his cousin to the punch and be the first grandchild. Uh, and that pretty much is the story of Jack's life Mr, competitive, and uh just has to be first and um, so, yeah. So I, um, yeah, gave birth in the middle of the night before the wedding and then, uh, he was in, um the humidity crib in the special care nursery and uh, the, the good mum that I am, I uh had to go and finish the wedding cake for the bride I couldn't let the bride down and then went to the wedding as well the same day that you had Jack yeah, oh, my goodness, what are you telling me?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):I mean, I, though, just imagining all that processing that you were doing before Jack came to then have him be so athletic and so physically performing. Was that a major contrast for what you thought you were going to get with Jack? Well, he told the stories. Too many stories.
Mom Therese :Jack Too many stories. Well, I mean Jack, you know's, he's just a normal boy, right, and in our family, uh, we are very, um, we're very adventurous. So we did a lot of travel. Uh, you know, when jack was only five, we went around australia for eight months, um, you know, living around australia and just traveling.
Mom Therese :And so you know, probably the best advice I ever had from a um, uh, um, just trying to think of the term, not a, not a midwife, uh, it was like a young, um, you know, maternal health nurse, it was kind of yeah, and she sort of said to me that everything you learn before five is auto learning.
Mom Therese :So, you know, you don't think about I'm going to open my hand, close my hand on a cup and bring it to your mouth to drink, right, we don't think about it, we just do it.
Mom Therese :It's an auto physical response.
Mom Therese :So she said, the more you teach Jack to adapt and do things in everyday life complicated things, easy things the more you jam into his learning before the age of five, it becomes auto learning. So she said, like, tip this, you know, like the onto the like table, just a few sprinkles and get him to pick them up with his little hand and his big hand and get him to like give him more things than he could possibly hold and make him work out how to hold them against his chest. You know, give him jars to open, give him all of these things so very quickly before the age of five, we were like, wow, we could teach him anything that's really interesting, jammed as much knowledge and information into him. You know I have video footage of him at five where he's just like take my training wheels off, I'm riding my bike. And you know he's around the caravan park just riding his bike and adapting and climbing trees. Oh my god, um, so just, he's just a regular boy and it's your fault that he did triathlon.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):I'm getting it.
Mom Therese :You taught him how to pick up no, he so up until like probably around 10, uh, in the school, like he did a bit of Auskick when he was younger and he really he liked sport. But it wasn't really until about he was 10 years of age, when you can start, or nine, 10, where you start doing cross country at school and all of a sudden it's like not just because you have to, but it's like fun and it's competitive. And it was right around that eight, nine, 9, 10 age where I just started to see and he was always, like you know, when growing up learning tasks, like okay, so much, but you go back into it and it's like even teaching him to pull up his pants. Like you know, how do you do that with one hand? Like if you've ever had a broken arm and it's been in plaster, it's quite frustrating doing everything with one hand, right. So we used to have this little motto and we would be like we try, we try, we try, we try, we try, we try and then we get it.
Mom Therese :So it's kind of from day one, always impregnating in jack that you might try one way, it doesn't, so you just try another way until eventually you find the way that works. So for Jack. It's difficult because he sees everyone do things with two hands and he has to adapt his mind. How do I do the same thing in a similar way but with only one hand and one stump? Because let's not forget that he does have a little bit of dexterity over in the stump. So life has always been about problem solving and adapting to jack, so he's had this inbuilt. If you try your hardest at something, you will succeed. So he's got this drive. He knows that succeed success comes from the effort right.
Mom Therese :So once he discovered sport, it was all over he just wanted to do everything, and he wanted to be the best at everything it started out in like cross country no well it started out to learn to swim, so I was 10 and I didn't know how to swim.
Jack Howell :So mom's like, oh, I might put you in some swim lessons so you can learn how to swim. So what I did? I completed the whole learn to swim in a year.
Mom Therese :The fastest anyone had gone from.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):cannot swim to squad, so Jack, is that like a curiosity, like is it a I want to prove that I can, kind of mentality, or I just want to know how to do things. And did you ever have resentment about other kids?
Jack Howell :well, I think it was. It's purely for me. I just like seeing how far I can take it, sometimes like I didn't necessarily I don't like. I don't train or do sport to prove my ability. I think that's already been proven. I feel like. But it's more out of personal drive. I feel like I have an addiction to being successful. I guess so like. Once I found that in those learn to swims that if I actually, you know, listen to what the the teacher is telling me and apply them and then I actually get better, that feels, it feels good. So I want to do it more and essentially that's being especially in an individual sport. I think everyone would have to have a bit of that in them because it's it's more like I feel like as well. From a para sport perspective it's probably a good trait to have, but it's more personal that it is comparing yourself to others. It's literally like how can I myself get better and what do I need to do to do that?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):okay but, I, have a question for you, and this is kind of a weird thing to say, but is being the best. Do you look at an able-bodied way of doing something, for example, swimming or biking, and then think I want to do it that way, or do you do it Jack's way, because Jack's way could be even better?
Jack Howell :I. Oh, that's a tough question. Actually I would say both, but I'll explain.
Jack Howell :So, I feel, as a para-athlete, my ability and where my disability impacts the sport will always have an effect and that's something to always know. So it's good to remember that I will. At some stage I will be out like someone will out swim me, for example, especially if they're able-bodied, because they're just going to have more ability. Um, that's purely where my disability comes in. But training with able bodies and training with people that are much quicker than me, I have found has made me get better. Okay, while they're getting better, if that makes sense. So I like to compare myself a lot to able body because it's like it's the same as comparing myself to the best in the world in yes marathon, for example. Right, because their, their times may be better. So it's, it's. It's the same comparison in a way, but I don't necessarily look at like an able-bodied stroke, for example, in the pool yeah, that's what I meant like a technique you're trying to mimic.
Jack Howell :There's obviously going to be some differences, but also I still do look at someone everybody and see what they're doing, swimming wise to then say, okay, well, how can I, how can I do that? But also, how does it play into my disability as well? So there's always going to be some form of comparison, but for the most part, it's always in a workaround way to what that looks like in my disability.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Yeah, very cool yeah, I get it what you're very holistic approach, but yes, I said, I didn't compare myself to able-bodied people, and that's something growing up.
Mom Therese :You know, one of the lovely things that about um sport and that progression is, you know, jack's often raced, either against able-bodied competitors, you know, up until 18. Jack was competing, you know, at national level in the under-19s triathlon against all the able-bodied junior athletes, and he would gauge his success not by just the medals but by his times, whether he had had a race where he hadn't fumbled or made errors. You know so. So he's always been really good at self-analysis, at, you know, what am I getting better? What am I getting better at, not in comparison to somebody else? But he'll also measure and say, oh I'm, you know, I came sixth in that race and those boys are like the top five in australia and I'm sitting at number six and they have two hands. So he, you know mentally, but but he would also say I have, you know, but I, or he would say I've beaten number six and number five before, so that wasn't a great race, because I know I can beat them.
Jack Howell :So you know, um there's that really good stuff, because I think what it is as well is um. The approach that I would sort of take would be, um, accepting that I can't always compare to an able-bodied person. Yeah, there's no reason why I can't give it a crack and I.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):I feel that in you I feel that you are going for a lot, which is really, really cool.
Jack Howell :You're just going for your best, I guess, in a sport like paratriathlon, where we're only in our third Paralympic cycle, so in relativeness we're very young sport in paratriathlon. Triathlon is a sport. Is has been around since, I think, sydney um as an Olympic sport, but it's been around for longer than that um. But in terms of a para sport we're very new. So I sort of take it upon myself to say, well, why not compare to, uh, an able-bodied person? Because the sport doesn't have the maturity and the depth of field yet to actually be able to compare myself to others. And also, as well being that pretty much no person's ability or disability is the same in paratrathlon. It's also like you have to be very self-conscious of what and self-aware of what it actually is going on between yourself and comparing to yourself. A lot more than, say, an able-bodied person who would just say, well, I got third at that race, which means I didn't do well. You have to have actually, quite like a substantial knowledge about self-performance and what that looks like.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Yeah, that's really interesting and so let's keep on this track around. Para sport and Therese talk to me about the expense of supporting a para triathlete. You know we kind of mentioned it really quickly, some of the costs and how you manage it as a family. Just take what you know.
Mom Therese :we kind of mentioned it really quickly some of the costs and how you manage it as a family. Just take us through that. Yeah, um, I guess, uh, as a, you know, typical aussie that's, you know, always enjoyed watching olympic and paralympic sports. Um, on the television you see athletes at the peak of their performance, you see them at the ultimate goal and you see them on those podiums and you think, wow, an austral, australian athlete? Yes, you're, and you assume that they're supported by Australia, that, as an Australian athlete, that they're, you know, financially supported to be there, that they have the right team around them, that they have the equipment that they need, and that's part of as an Australian athlete and the money that we, australia, invest in sport. So it is really shocking to take that step over the edge, into the abyss and watch your child become an elite athlete representing australia and you're on your own.
Mom Therese :In the beginning, uh, and at the top end, it's, it's still not nearly enough so. So, for every Australian out there, when you're watching the Olympics and the Paralympics this year, just remember that the majority of athletes on that podium have paid their own money, their own heartache, for the last four years and more for some athletes to be where they are and that's just the truth and the reality. And there's a lot of statistics and um. The sport sport australia foundation have done some surveys. Australian sport foundation apologies have done surveys and indicated that the majority of athletes are actually living below the poverty line and um yeah, so, but to remortgage your house like what?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):as a family? What does that conversation even look like, therese?
Mom Therese :So we came out of COVID and Jack was finally internationally classified, which Jack touched on before. You know, over the years, as a parent you do a lot of fighting for their equal rights as a person with disability. So we'd just come out of the fight with VicRoads so that Jack could have a license to drive a car for their equal rights as a person with disability. So we'd just come out of the fight with Vic Rhodes so that Jack could have a licence to drive a car. And then we went into the fight for Jack to have all the correct medical information to be assessed for para-triathlon. So both of those were successful.
Mom Therese :And then we looked at the future. You, jack, wanted a shot. He just wanted a shot at qualifying for paris. And, uh, world rankings are based on two years of racing. So we did the math and we had two and a half years before this comes. Yeah. So we were like you need to race now, we need to get you racing internationally now, and so we had a look at what international races were coming up. We did the math on the money and then we found out that he could nominate for a World Cup race, which is the lower tier, the first tier of international racing, world cup race, which is the lower tier, the first tier of international racing, and uh, but australia doesn't send the team to world cups. So he would be on his own and, as a fresh 18 year old, there was no way I was sending my baby I didn't even have a passport oh
Mom Therese :my uh. So we sat down, um, and originally I'd said I'll go with him, um, and I can take the time off work and we'll just travel. We'll go to the first race, which is France. We'll put his name down for the Spanish race, which was a week later, because if you're going to spend that money to go overseas, you may as well get your bang for your buck Right. Need to go overseas, you may as well get your bang for your buck right. So so we was. I was like, okay, so this will be the rough course. And uh, and then I made the mistake of um looking at images of Bessoncon in France, where this race was going to be. And, as I said before, we're a family of travelers, we love adventures.
Mom Therese :And I came out to the lounge room to my husband on a lazy Sunday and I showed him the images and I said I think we're gonna have to go with him. I said we already worked out by this stage he needed a $20,000 bike, so to be $10,000 bike, a $20,000 bike. So he needed a $20,000 bike to be competitive. Because we also saw at this stage, we saw jack and his racing and we knew his capabilities, we knew his times. We knew that once he did hit the international circuit that he would land in the top 10. Uh, we predicted within the first 12 months. So why go spend twelve, fifteen thousand dollars on a less than adequate bike when, for a couple of thousand dollars, getting the best, that it would last him for the next four years?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):so that was that, the qas bike that you talked about, that they altered?
Jack Howell :is that why it was yeah, yeah they have altered, but no support for that bike no, no, they did the work on it, though, and then you yeah so yeah, they, they, they helped out with the work.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Yes, um yeah um, but that was only later yeah, so you buy a twenty thousand dollar bike and then they do the work on it yeah, yeah, got it so it probably took another year for the work to happen on it yeah.
Mom Therese :So we needed a twenty thousand dollar bike to race competitively. And then, coming out of covid, air flights were really expensive I think they're like three and a half thousand per person, and that was just to get to France and home again, and then you know accommodation and everything on top of that. So, yeah, we did the math and we were like you know what, let's just remortgage the house and extend the amount and take out the extra that we need to get the bike and to travel. And then, as I said, I showed my husband the photos and I said we're doing this as a family. You know what? We've been here for Jack as a family from day one. Uh, we're his biggest cheer squad and and my husband has bike knowledge, which I don't and I like let's just get this done, because if we can get Jack to do two or three international races in one go, it'll get him on the rankings and it'll get him a really good start. And so we invested.
Jack Howell :You have to backtrack a little bit. So essentially, when you're racing internationally, your country has to put in an application for you to race and then on top of that then the World Federation has to put in an application for you to race and then on top of that then the world federation has to accept that. But they only have a certain amount of quota spots per race. So, for example, the recent race in devonport, we had 80 spots internationally, so you got to divvy that up between six um categorized like classes, so you got like the vi's, the wheelchair, so you got six of them, and then two genders, so it pretty much works out to be about 10 people per race. So, um, and on top of that as well, I had never done an international race before, so I was nobody.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):So essentially when they accepted you yeah so they, they.
Jack Howell :So, yeah, it's very rare and that's why we sort of we, we couldn't plan anything because you don't actually know if you're going to get selected for a race or not. Yeah, for that first year, the biggest battle that I had was actually getting races. Yeah, it's like it's like playing afl and you're playing in the twos and you're trying to get into that top team. You know, like the biggest battle wasn't my ability and my times, it was actually getting through the races which is why we decided to do that investment.
Mom Therese :So it's a bit chicken and egg. We were like we need to invest in you so that you can get your rankings and then, when you get a higher ranking, he gets more financial support. And this is the challenge for most Australian athletes is um, getting, um, uh, getting those race starts, getting out there, proving your ability. You're on your own. You've got to back yourself, you know. And financially, you know. And it's like how do you go get sponsors, how do you go get support when, as Jack said, you're almost a nobody in your sport, but you know you have the capacity? But, um, so we, we invested in him in that first year and we just said we believe in you, we're gonna get the bike. So that first year he only received, uh, three thousand dollars in support from australia and it cost us fifty thousand. Wow, and that's just jack's cost. That's not us to travel as well, that was jack's yeah, just yeah.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):But to explain, when he just won the most recent world series, what an able-bodied triathlete. So tell you, just do that comparison, for yeah so um so in.
Mom Therese :In some sports you know like, there's prize money. So a lot of athletes able-bodied triathletes survive on prize money. So even at junior level there's usually around a thousand dollars. You know prize money or it might not be a lot, but it's still some prize money. In the entire world there is $0 for para triathletes. So there's more than 3.6 billion every year allocated for um able-bodied triathletes in prize money and zero allocated for um para athletes. Um so jack recently won gold in a world series, which is the um second highest level of competition before the world championships. So it's a really high, prestigious race, the world series. Jack won gold. If he was able-bodied he would have received almost thirty thousand dollars, almost $30,000 Australian in prize money. Oh, that's so annoying. And do you know what? They didn't even have champagne on the podium.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):So not only did they have no prize money, that's the last straw. I mean no mowee on the thing, I know, I know.
Mom Therese :So there's a long way to go. It's really difficult because you know so. There's a long way to go. It's really difficult because you know it's so well. It's great to hear such good conversations socially um about, you know, gender equality and equality and prize money for genders, and it's just like you know it's great to see some forward movement in that area. But then on the other side, it and disability. We're still back in the 1920s, you know.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):And when you're living it now, like you say, it's never quick enough. You know when you're looking from the outside and it's not impacting you.
Jack Howell :I'm well aware that it probably won't happen in my career.
Mom Therese :Yeah, so this is where we're in a phase of survival. So you know, it is what it is and there's no point complaining about it because we're not in a position to make change. But what I would like is, um, athletes like and, and parents like us, to just openly discuss that it is a challenge, um, because most people are unaware that, um, that this is the reality of para-athletes and their families, and so you know it's like let's start talking about it. You know, and maybe there might be solutions in the future, because, a bit like gender equality, I don't believe that there aren't sponsors out there that, if they were aware of this situation, would actually go. You know what? I would actually be happy to tip in a little bit for some prize money. You know, I'd love to see there's two major races in Australia that we have each year that gain international points. I would love to see those have some Australian sponsors that contribute some prize money to para-athletes.
Jack Howell :Depending on the amount of people racing and what the breakdown looks like. It would probably only take a company to give 10 000 for athletes to probably be happy at this current stage like yeah, for an event, whereas if you look at somewhere I think like, for example, we'll go with um.
Jack Howell :The only time they've ever done it and I think it would show it shows that it is possible is at the Paris test event last year. So the Paralympic Games and the Olympic Games testing event. So they run the course to make sure it all works and the athletes get to race on it and vice versa. And what the French Federation actually did is they agreed that they would split the prize money between able-bodied and para as a 50-50 breakdown. So the same amount of money the ables get would also the paras would also get for the sport. So the breakdown is a little bit different. So in able-bodied, I think it's from like first to 15th place gets money and then the rest miss out. Um, whereas what it looked like in the paras was first place, obviously, being that there's 10 first place because all categories were run.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Um, obviously first place more categories.
Jack Howell :First place got less, but there was still money on offer. Right, and there was actually. So there was probably about 450 people in the briefing when they announced it and I'm pretty sure the entire room was clapping yeah.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):Because we weren't even that's just progress, like you say-.
Jack Howell :We also know that, the different the factors of prize money and what that looks like, being that para triathlon at the moment it has less attraction from the general public and sponsors than than the elite triathlon, um, and we know that, and we know that the the the depth of field in paratriathlon isn't quite um as deep as the elite's field, purely because just the amount of people that are actually disabled, um, but I think, going past that understanding, we also think that there's also we don't expect the same. It's not like we're asking for 50 50 money split for every single person that gets first to 10th, so we're asking it was actually probably what they did at the test event.
Mom Therese :That's just something, something something would be better than nothing, and let's start. Personally, $3.6 billion across all of elite world triathlon in a year, I'd love to see them commit 10% each year and start to put that towards paratriathlon. I do believe that if it was advertised and sponsors were approached correctly, I do believe it does have the capacity to gain interest. Um, I just think at the moment. Um, unfortunately, it just hasn't been considered. So yeah, so look, we survive, we get grants and scholarships, and you know, I'm very active, bringing this message to the table.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):And I know that you know, jack, you survive on the bank of mom and dad and grants and literally thank you for saying survival mode, so people really get it. And and we are curious, jack, what you did with the money that from the green and gold scholarship, like at that time. Where did that fall for you, um, and what did you do with it? Did mom even tell you? Did mom travel? So yeah, purely lost the biggest expense, uh, as a paratrooper athlete.
Jack Howell :Um, and what did you do with it? Did mum even tell you? Did mum just tell you, travel. So yeah, purely last, the biggest expense as a paratriathlete. It obviously can be altered. I don't have to race as much, but also in a Paralympic year I pretty much have to go to every single race. So what the Green and Gold funded was essentially my flight to Worlds last year. It was all the way in spain and flying from australia. So that was, that was pretty much what it was. And, to be brutally honest, those points right now, if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be in a position to be pretty much on my way to qualify for my first paralympics.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):So that's essentially what you guys funded my first paralympics wow, oh, my goodness and that's the thing like just hearing your story and all the the pieces of the puzzle that were needed, even that timeline that you were just in time for, and all those different things that have come into play. I want to end, jack, with this, this understanding of when your head hits the pillow these days and you start dreaming about, or your mind starts to wander to, like Paris and the Paralympics. What are you dreaming about right now?
Jack Howell :it's a very open question and I love that. Basically, for me, uh, two years ago well, not even 10 years ago I, as a young kid, I was watching, I'm pretty sure, the London Paralympics and I just said I don't care what sport I'm doing, I don't care what I'm doing, but I'd love to grow to a Paralympics. I obviously gave a crack at swimming and, don't get me wrong, I still do well and truly enough of swimming now as it is, but I think that to make my 10 year old self achieve that dream would be that's, that's the dream. The dream is the dream. Um, and I think that I also am a very openly minded person and I have the ability to be grateful for what I have but also challenge myself to go well, well, why not better? And I think that the Paralympics is the symbol of that. But it's a lot deeper than that. Like I am already trying to make the people behind me's life easier in paratriathlon, and I've already got there's already a group of junior paratriathletes that are already there, don't get me wrong. They're struggling the same way that I did in the past, but I'm trying to apply a bit of guidance and help in there and that's already.
Jack Howell :That's the, that's the mature dream that's coming through as well. So I'm trying to check my goals off, but I'm also I love having an input and guidance into those younger kids and input and um and guidance into those younger kids and because eventually I know, like myself, um, I'm aware that paratrathlon at the moment is quite a mature sport. You know that you're looking at the 30s and above and I'm quite young for that. So I've had my fair share of knowing what it's like to be the young, the young um puppy dog in the in the pen. But at the same time, I also am well aware that if I do it correctly, I'll actually want those younger kids to be beating me. I don't want it to be easy. You know, um, and that's really what it's all about to me. It's it's a bit of personal, but it's also a bit of um making headlines in the sport as well and just bringing the sport up as well mom, you raised this.
Mom Therese :I, oh, I love it. Isn't that so great? And look, we're all a team and it's so nice to see the things that my husband and I have taught over the years coming through Jack now. It's so beautiful and he is.
Mom Therese :You know, we've always believed in you know, we've had it tough in different ways over the years and we believe in creating a legacy and that those that follow us shouldn't have to have it as tough as us. And you know we you know I've been actively involved with groups. You know I've been a volunteer with a group called Amp Camp, which is for teenage amputees, and helping to support them and families over the years. So sharing information and you know like, I've written documents on how, to, you know, prepare yourself, to, you know, get a driver's license because it was such a war for us and helping other parents through that, you know, and even in the early days, how do you get your child categorized, and so sharing and leaving a legacy for the next generations is really important to us as a family. It's like you know, we have to make these struggles mean something that's what I was gonna say.
Jack Howell :I was gonna say the first, the first dream is to get through the struggles that are that I face and then the second part is how do I make it better for the people behind?
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):me. Yeah, I like that, the two tiers don't get me wrong.
Jack Howell :I could get. I could get last at the Paralympics, or I could get first. It doesn't actually matter to me at this point. Actually getting there is what I've really dreamed about, so don't get me wrong, I'll give it a fair crack. I'm not saying the race, I'm not saying we're done, I'm, I'm pretty much made it.
Jack Howell :You know that's not if I make, yeah, like, if I'm going to this games, I'm gonna give it my all, and that's that's all that matters, but at the same time as I'll also having the ability to just be thankful for the facts that I've just gotten there.
Mom Therese :Yeah, so beautiful. Love it as a, as a family. Mental health's really important and we do look at those that have gone before us as well. And, um, as parents, you know, one of the things that we try to cultivate for jack is, uh, positive um attitudes and perspective and space. So, um, it's really uh fantastic to be striving for these great big goals and to be wanting to do your best and achieve that.
Mom Therese :But it's also really important to prepare that mental headspace, for you know, what does success look like Like? Where are you actually at right now and what is that measure of success? Because, while we all want gold, you know, if you don't achieve it, does that mean you didn't succeed? Does that? You know? Where is your reality? You know, you know where, what, where is your reality? You know, and um, so it's really important that Jack has really good um perspective around that. And, yeah, look, you know, two years ago, the aim was, you know, let's see if we can get you to qualify for the Paralympics and then you'll get great experience. You're still young and that'll prepare you for you know his dreams are LA and eventually Brisbane, um, and then, you know, as he's gone along his way, you know he's looking pretty red hot right now, and so now the attitude has become a bit more beyond you know qualifying. It's like all right, let's have a crack at this, let's see how far I can take it, and let's be the wild card, let's be the underdog.
Sarah Maxwell (Chatta-Box Media):That no one sees coming. Go Jack. Well, I can hear how much grounding you have at home, jack and like with perspectives, and I can't help but reflect back to that moment, you know, when you're seeing your scan, your pregnancy scan and you said it like the normal stuff, like is the heart beating? And I can tell the heart is definitely beating and that's what's going to be going into this performance and I just really appreciate your journey and the way you both express it. I think you're definitely part of shifting the narrative and that's what we're all about with the price you pay podcast. So thank you so much, you guys. Today. I really appreciate all the energy that you brought no, thank you very much, thank you so much.
Mom Therese :It's great to chat to you guys and we're so grateful for the green and gold athletes program thank you for joining us on another episode of the price you pay podcast.
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