The Price You Pay
Host Natalie Cook, Olympic gold medalist and five-time Olympian, shares the inspiring and untold stories of athletes who face financial obstacles in their pursuit of becoming Olympian's and Paralympian’s.
Discover the sacrifices, challenges, and unwavering determination behind their pursuit of greatness.
Be inspired by their resilience and determination to turn their dreams into reality.
The Price You Pay
18: Ben Holliday's Cost of Speed: Navigating Finance and Family in Motor Racing
Seventeen-year-old motorsport prodigy Ben Holliday and his father Darren reveal the emotional and financial sacrifices behind pursuing a professional racing career while navigating family dynamics and increasing competition.
• Starting at age six, Ben quickly found success in karting, finishing second at his first national event
• The financial demands of competitive motorsport escalate dramatically at each level, from karting to cars
• Ben's parents separated when he was ten, coinciding with challenging years in his racing development
• Racing competitively requires approximately $100,000 annually, with families often making sacrifices to stay competitive
• The Hollidays purchase second-hand equipment to compete against better-funded rivals
• Ben balances elite racing with challenging Year 12 studies in advanced mathematics and sciences
• The transition to professional racing requires securing corporate sponsorship, something Ben is learning through the Aussie Athlete Fund
• Ben's goal has shifted from Formula 1 to V8 Supercars, recognizing the financial reality of motorsport pathways
• If driving professionally doesn't materialize, Ben plans to study engineering to "make cars go fast"
To support athletes like Ben through the Aussie Athlete Fund, visit www.aussieathletefund.com and choose how you'd like to be involved – as a corporate partner, through the Million Dollar Challenge, or by hosting your own fundraising event. Press the follow button and rate us for Season 3 so these stories can travel further.
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My name is Luke Morrison and I'm from the Gurundjeri Grungy mob, and I wish to acknowledge the lands on which the Price you Pay podcast is being recorded, on the Meeinjin country. I feel the spirits of my Indigenous ancestors having my back as I step into the boxing ring. This podcast pays homage to the tradition of storytelling when it shares athlete journeys and wishes to extend its respect to all Indigenous and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
Nat Cook:Welcome to Season 3 of the Price you Pay podcast hosted by myself, nat Cook, five-time Olympian and gold medalist, alongside our superstar interviewer, sarah Sarah from Chatterbox Media. Through conversations with Aussie Athlete Fund recipients, the truth emerges of what it truly takes to reach the highest echelons of sport in this country. By introducing family and key members of the athlete's journey to the discussion, we uncover the hidden costs and barriers they face, while getting a sense of the impact it has on their communities. Indulge me as I take you on a journey of my legacy project that spurred the creation of this podcast and the need to share these amazing athlete stories. I created the Aussie Athlete Fund to provide our next generation aspiring to or wearing the green and gold with the financial skills, tools, networks and opportunities to take care of their financial well-being. I personally retired after 20 years, $300,000 in debt, two medals, no superannuation, and I don't want that for the next generation. I don't want them to continue to pay a price for the honour to represent our country. I'm most proud of the athletes in the Aussie Athlete Fund designing their own initiatives to fundraise. We show them a tool for their fundraising roadmap and then they go about finding the networks, finding the businesses asking people for support along their journey. They get to deal with rejection, they get to deal with success. They have a community, a connected community, so they know they're not alone in this process and I really love how they take ownership for their own journey and that is what I'm most proud of.
Nat Cook:My vision for the Aussie Athlete Fund in the short term is to grow the awareness of the fund, but also of these athletes journeys, to inspire businesses and individuals who have the means to connect with these athlete journeys. They work so hard on the track, in the pool, on the court, to represent this great country and we need people to back their journeys. We need people to get emotionally connected. So that's it in the short term. I need to raise funds, I need to grow awareness and I need to teach the athletes how to be responsible for their own fundraising journeys. In the next seven years, towards 32, I want people to know how important the green and gold athlete is for our country and how it not only inspires our next generation of athletes but our businesses and the whole country to lift, to be the best they can be.
Nat Cook:It's so important to share this podcast not only with our athletes, so they have a tool for their fundraising, to share their stories with people that might like to back them on the journey, but also so that people know the depth of effort that these athletes go to Not only the athletes, their family and friends and their supporting community to help them rise to represent all of us on a world stage. And I want people to be able to be inspired and motivated, like I am when I hear all these athlete stories, to want to help them fundraise and help them look after their financial well-being. So enjoy listening to the stories, pick one or two that you want to back in and make sure they know that you're supporting them. And now, with complete trust and confidence, I hand over the microphone, and I know that might be hard for you to believe, but I have to go out and fundraise for our athletes. As she continues the conversation, our star interviewer, sarah.
Sarah Maxwell:Today we sit down with 17 year old motorold motor racing rising star, ben Holliday.
Sarah Maxwell:As a regular round winner in the Australian Kart Championships for the past nine years, he recently stepped into a Toyota 86 race car for the 2025 TGRA Scholarship Series at the Phillip Island Grand Prix Circuit, where aspiring young professional drivers hone their circuit racing skills. Ben raised eyebrows last year in his inaugural senior year by leading the championship for the first three rounds. You can only imagine how excited Dad Darren is by all this, as he grew up racing historic touring cars and is now the resident mechanic for his son's budding career. There were years when Ben could be found racing every single weekend, and yet he finds time to study chemistry, physics, specialist maths and maths methods whatever that is for his year 12 at the Australian Science and Mathematics School based at Flinders University. No wonder he's aiming to do engineering at university. I feel we are in for one intriguing conversation with a young man and his dad who are so devoted to their craft. So are you ready, boys, for the green light or I don't know if it's a green flag, but are you ready to start this conversation?
Ben Holliday:Certainly yeah.
Sarah Maxwell:So is it a green light or a green flag these days? What? What it's a?
Ben Holliday:green light. Actually it's no light.
Sarah Maxwell:The red lights go out and then you go, so there's no green flags anymore oh, okay, we're gonna get into that, because my curiosity is piqued with how you get ready for those lights, and now they've changed it on you. So, admitted, I have a million motor racing questions for you, ben. But I literally said out loud, oh my God, when I read that your mom said what you're studying at school. So how do you juggle all that study load with the amount of on-track work and events that you participate in? Like, just give us a snapshot of how you fit it all in.
Ben Holliday:I fit it in barely okay, um, especially this month, um, when we're recording this in march, um, I've got racing four or five weekends and so I got a couple assignments due as well. So it gets pretty stressful and a bit busy, but I try to fit it all in. Just prioritize what's next, you know, next assignment, what, what test I've got next, and then what race as well.
Sarah Maxwell:So and you had a birthday. Ben, how do you even celebrate your birthday? Or you just don't?
Ben Holliday:well, that's funny actually, because we drove to Melbourne on my birthday, so lovely did you eat cake?
Sarah Maxwell:yeah, we didn't celebrate do you um actually on that? Do you eat cake? And is there like a diet or a health plan that you have to abide by?
Ben Holliday:um, I try and stick as healthy as possible, like it's always on my mind, but I like chocolate and I like ice cream, so so does weight affect your driving? Um to a certain degree um in it's 85 kilograms for the driver. When you go over that, you're then at a disadvantage, but I'm under that, so it's all all right yeah, all right.
Sarah Maxwell:Oh yeah, darren wants to say more stuff.
Dad Darren:Come on, darren, come in, come in come on, darren, come in, come in the car and the driver weighing 162 kilograms. Um. So, ben, even at his, you know he's pretty pretty good shape. He's right on that limit of weight. So, um, just gotta you know, being a young boy, he burns the food up, but you can't afford to put many kilos on so you're not doing like what the wrestlers do, like wearing those special jackets and like trying to get get weight.
Ben Holliday:Not there yet, not yet.
Sarah Maxwell:Yeah, sorry, that just came to me all of a sudden.
Dad Darren:Depends how much ice cream depends how much ice cream he eats.
Sarah Maxwell:Chocolate, that's right. So, dad, we are going to welcome you, but you're in there.
Dad Darren:Sorry for butting in.
Sarah Maxwell:No, no, no, I mean Ben looked comfortable, like he was ready for it. So look, we hear you're the resident car car experts, even though you work in IT as your day job. So can you describe the cars you used to race versus the carts that Ben started in, and how driving the Toyota 86 car, whatever that means, is now another step in the journey?
Dad Darren:So just talk us through different kinds of cars and and how all those little transitions work sure, um, I guess, since you know I got my license as a late teenager um, I was interested in cars and had a series of old bombs and that sort of thing. And when I was about 30 and, by the way, I lived in the hills, so you drive around a lot of corners when you live in the hills so when I was 30, I thought that I wanted to try and race cars. So I started, you know, slowly, and for about five years there I raced. It's not professional, of course, but I raced in historic cars. Okay, so that was mainly cars until from the 60s into the 70s. So you know those cars are interesting because you're trying to push them so hard and they're getting old, they break a lot, so you probably spend more time fixing them. And you know it's called midnight motorsport, where you spend many hours in the shed trying to get the car ready to take it out on track for it to break down again. Why?
Sarah Maxwell:would one do that, darren? Why would you pick a historic like sorry, missing the fun?
Dad Darren:um, well, I think it's the type of car and there's a certain nostalgia and, I guess, romance to to try to race an old car like that. A lot of people do it. I'm not the only crazy one, so, um, but I think the racing's similar. But now the toyota 86, while it's a moderate monetary priced production car where you can go out and buy yourself, it's been designed with motorsport in mind. So I think toyota have actually done quite a good idea, quite a good thing to be able to buy a car and with minimal changes to it it actually becomes quite a good thing to be able to buy a car and with minimal changes to it it actually becomes quite a good race car. I'm not wanting to sound like an ad for Toyota, but so far, touch wood that the maintenance on the car has been a lot smaller than what I did when I was younger.
Sarah Maxwell:Yeah, and we're going to get into that cost and, like you say, this, maintenance and different things. But interesting to note that so when we're talking about these different layers of Ben's background, darren, in terms of like the cart, he starts in the cart and now he's in a car, is this sort of like the evolution to F1, or is that not the dream for everyone? And just those of us who watch Drive to Survive documentary we think that's what it's all about, or is there another? Are there many journeys that you can take?
Dad Darren:Look, I think you know Etan Senna is obviously one of the most famous Formula One drivers and you know it's quite well known that he made his start in karts yeah, got it. He's said many times that you know the most pure form of racing is karting, and some of his best memories are from karting. So and yeah, it's always been a pathway and a stepping stone to get into and become a professional racing driver, whether that be in formula one or in australia.
Sarah Maxwell:So okay, so that'll. That'll play well into this question for you, ben, because I kind of want to picture the six-year-old version of ben. Um, and you know, your mom says that you were fanging to race. And and why? Why did you want to race cars so badly?
Ben Holliday:Oh, I mean, I grew up at the track watching dad race his Historics, and then my older cousin, who was two years older than me, he started karting as well. He got a go-kart. So it was sort of in my blood and in my destiny. I didn't really have a choice, as much as I wanted to race, obviously. Um, like it was, I was sort of indoctrinated in a sense yeah, got it.
Sarah Maxwell:So you're watching older people like not just dad but your cousin, you're watching them. Does that in some way make you a good driver right away? Because I'm picturing, you know, my child when she was six and seven. It was scary. So were you bad at first or good, or what happens with the steering?
Ben Holliday:I mean there's footage of my first drives on track and they're hardly optimal, they're not exactly quick, but I think my biggest asset is that I've learned quickly and I've always enjoyed learning, and so where some people might have gotten better at a slower rate, I've picked it up quicker than others and that's why I've that's helped me succeed yeah, got it interesting.
Sarah Maxwell:I'm I'm sort of making links between your schooling and probably how you do your driving as well in terms of your learning, but this just seems like a good time to get back to the start line lights changing question. So you used to have a green light appear. Is that right In kart or is it a green?
Ben Holliday:flag, or it's the same in karting as in car racing? Yes where, um, it used to be red lights and then it would become a green lights, or like a green flag gets waved, but now the like? The red lights come on and you go when they go out, so when it goes black so it's like the three, two like it's like red light.
Sarah Maxwell:There's like three red lights or something, and they all yeah, there's five yeah five jesus. Yeah, so they all come on at once.
Ben Holliday:They all come on at once. All five red lights come on at once, and then there's like two seconds where you get ready to go and then they go out and the chaos starts okay.
Sarah Maxwell:Okay, here we go, talk me through this for you, ben. So when this is happening and you see the five lights, tell me about the internal mind or breathing, what's going on for you?
Ben Holliday:um? Well, there's. It depends on how in depth you want to go, but there's a process to in the 80s the racing car to um get the best start possible because it's a standing start. In the go-karts it's a rolling start, so everyone's going 40k's an hour already and you sort of just see the lights go out and then you hit the gas, whereas in the racing car, because it's a manual and it's got a clutch you like, your biggest goal is don't stall, please don't stall, please don't stall is your mind saying that during the five?
Ben Holliday:and that's probably what dad's thinking.
Sarah Maxwell:But what are you thinking?
Ben Holliday:uh, it's sort of you don't really think you just you just do, do this, do the process to start the race and then after the race like after the lights go out and you're going, you then look around and see where people are and then you go from there do you train that? Oh, some people do. I don't really believe in reaction time training I sort of look at them and laugh at them, but oh, this is good.
Sarah Maxwell:So you think it's like a wank, like it's? It's silly to practice that or what I.
Ben Holliday:It's probably. There's probably some benefit in it, but you can spend hours doing it. A lot of people do it to like get their mind into gear. I suppose, okay, and I have other ways of doing that.
Sarah Maxwell:So yeah, got it Okay.
Ben Holliday:Like it's just a way to um get switched on, and I do that in a different way.
Sarah Maxwell:So Got it. Love the confidence, by the way, on that. That's important, thank you, cause I've I've been so curious about when I watched that process um, what's going on in the mind, and I liked when you said not much, that's quite interesting. Okay, dad, you're back, so how do you keep up? You want to say something first? Come on, talk me through it.
Dad Darren:I was just gonna say because you know you think of the reaction line toming, but he's been um doing race starts for 10 years yeah so I think it becomes second nature.
Dad Darren:But you get someone who maybe um needs to do it at an older age or whatever, then definitely training um, but you know the the training was, you know, for the cars that ben talked about, developing a process to be able to achieve a perfect start. You do all this work, going fast around corners and braking and being millimetre perfect on the track, but then you forget that when he had his first race he was still on his learners and driving a manual car and taking off but never trying to get that perfect launch where you need to accelerate from zero to 100 or zero to 200 within, you know, a tenth of a second. So if you lose a tenth or a two, that's meters on track, so that's positions you lose.
Sarah Maxwell:So we did go and do some start line process training at the track before we went, or ben went to his first race just to try and embed that process in his mind, to make it second nature and I would just hazard, ben, that you probably have a process, whether it's conscious, like dad's saying, because you've been doing it for so long, that often it's, yeah, possibly unconscious to you, meaning just second nature, which is really interesting. Only when you start needing to coach someone else will you start caring about these things one day, ben. But for now, keep in that mind, that beautiful mindlessness, because it's actually really powerful. So okay, dad, tell me about the racing schedule that you and ben have been on for like 10 years now. It sounds grueling early on.
Dad Darren:It was grueling and and probably not sustainable, I think, any second year of racing um, we raced either 25 or 26 times or 26 weekends during the year and then we're away for some practice like traveling interstate for practice as well. So the the second year of racing was the, the youngest category, which is under nine, in in karting. There was a first year when he was sort of turning eight where it became part of the australian championship and probably, like most other eight-year-old kids who hadn't raced at a national level before, probably a little bit naive about what it was going to be like. So we just rocked up at the track with all these green seven, eight and nine year olds ready to race and Ben managed to finish second at his first national event.
Dad Darren:And you know we were racing a go-kart that was five years old, that you know, that rebuilt um. That obviously went all right, but you know most other people were running new, new karts, um. So, yeah, we were very green and and like around we, we hadn't spent days and days driver training. It was all just rock up and and and see what happened. And we had a really good year that year where Ben ended up being second in the Australian Championship won, like a local South Australian series over five events, travelled to Victoria and won a five race, sorry, a five weekend series over there. And then the state championship was over a five race weekend as well, um, and he won that. So you know, just in those four series we did, that was 20 events over 20 weekends plus some other club events we did locally. So you know it was a big effort and I think we're both pretty exhausted after that.
Sarah Maxwell:When I hear that, ben, I think a little bit about it. Sounds like you had quite a lot of success early on. Has your career been always moving in that direction, or have you had some periods where it wasn't? It didn't come as easy for you.
Ben Holliday:Absolutely not, it was. It was probably from the age of. From that, when I was eight years old, it was basically downhill for about six years until I was 15. I was seven years, but, um, it was another number of reasons, a number of factors, um, but, like, once I got to the junior category, which is like roughly 13 to 15, something sort of clicked, I suppose, and so the speed was there, but the maturity and the consistency to not crash wasn't.
Sarah Maxwell:So tell me about maturity and crashing. How do they relate so?
Ben Holliday:tell me about maturity and crashing. How do they relate? Well, you can be as fast as you want in qualifying and that'll put you at the front of the grid, but if you're racing and you think this is a good idea because you're naive and you're silly, but it's actually not, and then you crash, you end up starting at the back and it doesn't matter how quick you are, because you're starting 30 second instead of first so am I hearing like you would be high risk taker and yeah and then you would just go hell for leather and then get caught out yeah, pretty, pretty well.
Ben Holliday:And then sometimes there'd be a miracle where you'd go 32nd to 8th, but, um, actually in that race my axle snapped. But that's a different story entirely so interesting.
Sarah Maxwell:Thank you for this. I'm getting more of an understanding around. You know child development, even like how maturity matters when you think about decision making, hence why license aren't given out to everyone until you're older. And look in this period, I'm to understand that your parents separated and you were like in this sort of what you say, maturity period as well. So can you share a little bit about the impact that, from your perspective, that had on your career and how things are now like, how you include both your parents in your journey, like your mom is sitting right next to you and dad listening in choosing not to be in the conversation, you know so things are pretty close still with you all, so talk me through that a little bit.
Ben Holliday:Talk me through that a little bit. Yeah, we're a bit of a team now. Even when they split, it still remained a bit of a team. They both spend money for my racing, so I don't mind. Yeah, women, but obviously it's a lot deeper than that. But mum does like mum's not. She doesn't work on the spanners, she doesn't work on the carts and the cars, but she does what she can to help, and that's more behind the scenes, and even little things like making us lunch, um, and putting food in our faces constantly at the track and water, and that as well.
Sarah Maxwell:And so you're saying there was no hard bits. No hard bits when they separated, like did you have to go from house to house or there's?
Ben Holliday:plenty of hard bits, but um, there's a lot of um, compromise and good, that's still being taken out of the situation did it ever affect any of your results, like how old were you actually?
Sarah Maxwell:uh 10-ish 10-ish that's about right at that time, did your racing what happened?
Ben Holliday:oh, that's probably the start of the downhill so and the collapse, so potentially there's something there there, there probably was, but I was pretty young so I don't remember masses of it well said.
Sarah Maxwell:Yeah, and thank you for sharing that, because I think there's other people that go through periods like, hearing your story, we could just think, wow, he just persevered, like he had a bad. You know he had a bad bit, and then, well, lots was going on for you as well. Um, you know, at home things were changing, but just incredible to see how far things have come and, like you said, maybe there's something there. Well, I think there is, and so I think thank you for sharing that Cause I'm sure you're not the only one. And so was there anything else? I felt like I cut you off a little bit. Actually, you were you wanting to share anything else about the team that you have now.
Ben Holliday:No, I don't think so. Dad, is there anything you want to say?
Sarah Maxwell:I'm not going to say Dad, what do you want to say about this period?
Dad Darren:Yeah, I guess, from what I distinctly remember, at the end of that busy and successful year he had, I was like Dad, I just don't want to go kart for a little bit, I want a holiday and and that's completely fine.
Dad Darren:But we also um joined a team with a different brand of go kart and that brand of go kart was sort of unproven in australia and where a lot of people, even as eight and nine year olds, would have been at the track honing and and when I talked about that it was the category was new to karting in australia. Um, every year the professionalism of seven, eight, nine year olds has increased and it's it's funny to say that. You know, you talk about the professionalism and and you know the high performance methods and techniques et cetera. And that includes driver training, you know tuning the car, developing engines to get the most power out of them they're all sort of three parts to karting and they improved all the time and, like Ben, next year finished fifth in the Australian Championship, which is not to be sneezed at. But you know it was a more difficult year than the year before and Ben was always very ultra competitive and if things didn't go his way he had an anger that was difficult to control.
Sarah Maxwell:Got it, so you had meltdowns, ben. Those are the ones he doesn't remember, darren.
Dad Darren:Exactly right. And you know, typically, you know there's always a phase if you have an accident with someone, you blame the other people. He would blame himself as well and you know you just had to give him some time to let him calm down before we went again and he always had a level head. He didn't ever want to take anyone out to even up or whatever. It was just getting over that disappointment of the race not going the way he wanted to.
Dad Darren:And I think definitely when Kate and I separated you know it's probably only now that you reflect that you know I think that the anger levels probably did increase a little bit and his ability to control his feelings and hence the way that it affected his racing probably did increase, did help that and I think that through the cadet years which is, you know, you finish at 12 and then go on to juniors probably made a decision that would probably race less and probably try and put a bit more resources into um the racing. We did do so. We joined a new team with his name's Dave Serra, so he's probably Cutting, jesus Cutting.
Dad Darren:Jesus, yeah, and so he was able to work with Ben and to control not control but give Ben advice on his mentality and the way. You should race smart and get results, and I think that actually helped a lot.
Sarah Maxwell:Are you getting emotional, dad? Yeah, yeah, do you know? It's interesting because it seems like a simple question, but it's deep, isn't it? Because there's so much going on. And, from a parent's perspective, there's a lot going on for you guys as well, like whether it's guilt or all the feelings that you're feeling about the situation. And yet I hear, ben, how you were able to hone your winning ways, and also, I don't know if this is just to make dad feel better, but in a way it gave you a vehicle for the anger because you had to get it out, and so in other I just know of other people that don't get it out and you seem like you've grown a lot from that. And so thank you for sharing stuff that's emotional. Appreciate it.
Sarah Maxwell:I come from also separated parents, so I feel that I was very curious, but also I can relate, and I played sport all through it too. So, thank you, and I know that oftentimes, ben, it's in later reflection as well, where you start to understand even more about yourself. And look, we're kind of. I wanted to ask you, dad, about the costs. You know how. You know, know we're talking about costs. These are like emotional costs, what we're talking about talk me through a little bit of the financial costs over the years of all the carding um, and has it expanded now that we're starting, or now that ben's starting, in cars?
Dad Darren:yeah, definitely. Um, I guess the good thing about carding is that you do choose to to spend the amount that you want to spend. So if you just wanted to race at a club level, then you know, with pretty moderate equipment you know a five thousand dollar go-kart and engine and a budget of a couple of grand a year you can probably go out and do a fair bit of racing. If you choose to use secondhand tires, for example, tires are a big cost. But as soon as you become um, you know competitive and you want to start winning.
Sarah Maxwell:Sometimes the only way to win is to match the equipment that other people are using and that's sort of like when you watch you know1, you sort of get the idea around how important the cars are, you know, and the quality.
Sarah Maxwell:And part of me thinks like, why can't they all just match each other? I don't get it, you know so obviously there's I know you could probably talk a long time about that what makes good cars and why some teams have seemed to have a better car one year and then the others are catching up cars, and why some teams have seem to have a better car one year and then the others are catching up. But inside of the, the expenses that you guys have had in this journey, darren, um, how do you and Kate, as mom and dad, finance like help finance Ben's career, and is there an awkward phase around that? You?
Dad Darren:know, because we're putting in that whole yeah, a little bit, I guess.
Dad Darren:When Ben was younger, um, I would finance all of the carding and Kate probably picked up some of the other expenses where he, you know, needed a new pair of shoes or, you know, clothes or something at school or or whatever else, and, and, and you know, you go from you know spending 10 or 20 000 a year on on carding to you know spending 30, 40 000 a year and that's. You know that that is probably only a portion of what some people are spending. Um, and I got to, um, I think it was early last year, and I said, okay, I probably just can't keep doing this every more anymore because, um, you know it takes away all of your spare money. You pay the bills and groceries and, um, you know, everything else gets spent in racing and it gets pretty tiring, so, especially when you're trying to cut corners as well and compete with other people with more funding. So that's when Kate got involved with a Aussie athlete fund, which is potentially another subject that you're going to discuss at some stage. So yeah, right.
Sarah Maxwell:So then Kate went in search of some funding.
Dad Darren:Now that's really yeah, yeah process okay yeah, and as time went on, kate did also start contributing more as well to help, because you get to a point where you want to be competitive and you want to give Ben the best chance, that you're kind of winning, and the the only way to do that like is to spend. Yeah, so you know, a go-kart is worth $7,000 or $8,000. And typically people that race at a high level will use two go-karts per year so they change them over. We've been buying second-hand go-karts so when someone's finished with them, we would get them and then run them for another season so we're sort of you know, I don't know, maybe a tenth of a second less.
Dad Darren:And then you know um from engines as well. Engines are important, so people lease the best engines from people and spend money on that where we would have our own. And don't get me wrong, we've got some good engines but they're nothing like what other people have got.
Sarah Maxwell:Yeah, it's as good we're talking about this, because they do say that motor racing is a rich person's sport and you can see how important finances play in it and like, yeah, I have so many ways that we could go around about that, but I again it's about telling your story, ben and Darren and Kate, like what you guys are doing to be where you're at right now. So, ben, with mom, finding the aussie athlete fund, what role has that played in your sporting journey so far?
Ben Holliday:or the um with, through the aussie athlete fund, finding the like asf page, like australian sporting fund, that's helped a lot because it's allowed people to provide donations that are tax-free but at the like although we're very, very grateful for them, um, when it comes down to it, they're a drop in the bucket. Like we raised thousands of dollars but it's tens of thousands of dollars more for a race car. So like it helps, helps with the little things, but as we're moving to the big things, it's like it's a lot. And then also the Aussie Athlete Fund, specifically learning about fundraising and approaching corporations and businesses for sponsorship. Like it's given us the tools but now we need to put them into practice and build a shed.
Sarah Maxwell:Yeah, well, that was what I was thinking when you were sharing that. I was like is the next step a big sponsor? And therefore, yeah, learning how to have, is that the next step? Actually Do you need a big sponsor? Is that what?
Ben Holliday:happens. It's like a hierarchy to make it to like the pinnacle of a motorsport like Formula One, for example. Below Formula One you've got F2 and then you've got F3, and then you've got F4 and then you pretty much got karting. So if you want to make the step up each ladder, it's probably doubling cost, cost, if not a little bit more than that. So like, although you might be able to fund carding that step to formula four or that step to formula three, that's when you need to find a corporate sponsor and that's the.
Sarah Maxwell:That's the big thing is that the step that you're at?
Ben Holliday:yeah, pretty well. Well, we're in australia, obviously, so it's a different hierarchy. But to make the next, we've made that step from the um carting to the first level motorsport to. But to get that next step, that one step further, that's when the couples cost doubles, and so that's where we would get culled out if we're not backed by a corporation yeah, at the moment um 286 that we've got facing is what's called the scholarship series, yes, which is using the older model car.
Dad Darren:So they've got a next level up which is using the current model car. So, as an example, the the car we bought to compete was fifty thousand dollars and to race it for the year is most people are spending around a hundred thousand dollars a year, so we're trying to do it for about forty to fifty thousand dollars got it like half of you're trying to do it on a shoestring yeah, yeah.
Dad Darren:But then to go to the next step, um, you know the, the newer toyota series. That's still. You know, when I say relative affordable, it's still bloody expensive, but you know people can do it. It's a step after that, domestically in australia, where the goal of a lot of drivers to become a V8 supercar driver, where potentially that's a paid professional role, the next step on the pathway is you probably need anywhere from $600,000 to a million dollars a year to race at that level below V8 supercars.
Sarah Maxwell:So I'm thinking, Ben, that you need a degree, not just in mathematics. In some ways you're getting a degree in fundraising, aren't you? And sponsorship proposals and interesting. It's like a business degree just as much, and would you say that you found that? Have you been surprised, Ben, by this part of your career?
Ben Holliday:Well, I think, if you're looking at it like a university degree, I think I think I'm like a first year and I'm still a long way off of graduating. But I reckon along the way, if I do make it, or even if I don't, that I will get that degree in fundraising and business.
Sarah Maxwell:So, yeah, well said, um, get that degree in fundraising and business. So, yeah, well said, my, my career was really interesting. My partner, beach partner, had a business degree and I felt the same thing as you've been, like I was getting. I was in my 101 and then I was like advancing and I do feel like I have a whole other degree besides my other university degree because of that, and so I would say from my experience, you're absolutely right. So you know we're talking. It's so interesting because in a way I'm thinking, well, darren's also getting that degree and like so is my, you know Kate's getting it too. So you know, darren, you spend a lot of time with your son, probably more than most father and son. So do you talk us through, like the multiple hats that you must wear, like from mechanic to coach, to father, to now we see business development.
Dad Darren:Yeah, psychologist.
Sarah Maxwell:Psychologist.
Dad Darren:Controlling angry Ben. Oh, my gosh, thank you.
Sarah Maxwell:Sports psych, you sports psych, what like. How do you navigate all of those different elements?
Dad Darren:um, I guess that's a really good question because I've never really asked myself how do I do it? It's sort of it's been a lot of effort at times, but it's also enjoyable as well, because you know like I was an average race car driver but in a way I sort of like preparing the karts or the cars and that as well, and you know, to have Ben, who's a good driver, drive them also gives me satisfaction.
Sarah Maxwell:but it doesn't mean that we don't yell at each other um we probably swear at each other are you like the fiery ones out there?
Dad Darren:do you?
Sarah Maxwell:guys just have goes at each other.
Ben Holliday:I'm feeling that I'm I'm like envisioning this not not on the level of others, but it's a form of communication.
Dad Darren:So it's like you know if you're performing at a high level, um, you need to be open and you need to put you know in a way that dad and son typical relationship where most kids would be grounded for a month if he spoke like that to the parent or it's like you get on with her and you understand what the problem is and you try and fix it because it's it's very emotional, you put a lot into it and you can't be angry at the kid because he swore at you, because you're trying to achieve the next goal, which would be in 15 minutes. So you just got to try and work together, uh, and and get on with it. It's like if you're a coach, you know maybe he wouldn't talk to his coach that way, but you know if he was older you know you would have heated discussions with a coach or teammate or whoever it is.
Sarah Maxwell:You just get on and get it done and like the stakes are high and I personally feel that what you both are doing is really intense and it actually is harder than parenting, because it's like the parenting is part of it. So there's like all these things going on at the same time and you're trying to like navigate all those hats and I, like you said, the people that are actually out doing the thing. That's, to me, where all the hard stuff happens. No commentary from the sidelines on that, from my perspective, because until you're out there in the real stuff, you can't really comment on what it's really like. So I suppose the last question is Ben, you know what's your dream for your motor racing career? Because you've got a lot going on. You've got a lot going for you academically as well. So if you have dreams about academic stuff too, yeah, I just want to hear about this six-year-old who's now 17. And what are your dreams for your racing career?
Ben Holliday:Yeah, well, I think when I was six years old, my dream was to make Formula One. Probably, I think that's everyone's dream Every kid, everyone wants to drive a Ferrari, as they say. But at a certain point I realised that it's not financially possible. There's 20 people in the world world and there's a lot of rich people in formula one. So, like, fundamentally, we weren't going to be able to do that, but v8 supercars, which is one of the highest forms of motorsport in australia, I think, is definitely possible and that's the goal I have. So that's where I want to go when did your?
Sarah Maxwell:this is really interesting, because so you had a dream switch. Do you remember when?
Ben Holliday:um well, um, as dad said, the level of professionalism in like karting. When I started uh, racing at a high level, it was quite low, so you don't really notice all the people spending all the money and chilling out the big bucks. But as I started progressing further there was like, wow, that person's spending a lot of money or that person's spending a lot of money and they're amazing drivers and that's why they end up at the top. But you could be just as good and miss your opportunity because of financial reasons. And I think as I matured and got older, that's when I started to notice it more and more interesting.
Sarah Maxwell:It's so good to say that all these things because a lot of people don't know about this element of it. So just a quick offshoot there. Piastri aussie what's his background? What's his story?
Ben Holliday:or he started quite I believe. To my knowledge, he started later than most, as in he started at like 10 or 11 instead of six, um, and then he moved to europe when he was like 14-ish, I believe, and then started racing open wheelers there and like he won two races last year. He's oh sorry, he's won two races in his career and he's a high quality driver, but his family had the finances to get him there.
Sarah Maxwell:I think there was an ABC article on it but he was just saying that Piastri's dad, oscar's dad, has been really open about the money that's been spent, and you can read about it, um, and I think, look, the interesting thing is, as life progresses, sometimes our dreams switch, um or shift, and so I can hear the determinant. It feels like your determination and drive hasn't left the building, and yet you're just learning about the next hurdles or challenges that are there. That, I would say as a six-year-old, you didn't realize. You know, you didn't even know that that was going to be part of it. Yet you just thought you had to drive around the circle or whatever. And now you're realizing, oh right, I'm going to have part of it. Yet you just thought you had to drive around the circle or whatever, um, and now you're realizing, oh right, I'm have to secure a sponsor. That's a whole other degree. So do you have any goals? Um, you want to be an engineer. You want to do engineering at school. So do you have some other goals?
Ben Holliday:or, as I said before, I want to go fast and that's my goal. But if I can't go fast, I want to make cars go fast. So I want to be a motorsport engineer. That'd be my pick. So, either way, I want to work in the field of motorsport. It just depends on if I get to drive the car or I have to be shouted at by the driver because the car is not good enough.
Sarah Maxwell:Got it I love it Okay the driver because the car is not good enough, got it, I love it okay. Well, I see it's like I can see visions of you being like your dad one day too, and his love of the car and that element that he says that sometimes you don't even know the parts that you love until you start doing them. So thank you so much, you two, for this conversation. I appreciate your candor, your, your emotion, your realness and your story will help someone else and we hope that in the right hands, someone with the money can take your story to new heights. So thank you so much, thank you very much, thank you.
Nat Cook:Thank you for joining us on another episode of the Price you Pay podcast.
Nat Cook:Thank you for joining us on another episode of the Price you Pay podcast.
Nat Cook:We hope we've inspired you with the insider's look of the challenges faced by our aspiring athletes, the highs and lows of playing sports at such an elite level and what's possible when you're so devoted to your craft. It's our mission at the Aussie Athlete Fund to create a sustainable funding model to support our athletes, for both their financial well-being and education for their own athlete economy. To be part of the journey, please visit our website at wwwaussieathletefundcom and choose how you would like to be involved, whether that's as a corporate partner, teaming up with an athlete in the Million Dollar Challenge or hosting your very own event to help raise funds. Choose your own adventure. Sharing the Aussie Athlete Fund mission, or even an episode, is how we grow and expand the reach we have in supporting these young athletes. Be part of changing the narrative. And one last thing press the follow button and rate us for season three so these stories can travel further and wider. Be sure to join us next time for more captivating stories of triumph and resilience on the next episode of the Price you Pay.
