Gymnast Clay Mason Stephens Demonstrates the Ultimate Generosity of Spirit

A gymnast with one pectoral muscle, six knee surgeries, and a career that refuses to follow the usual timeline does not just “push through.” Clay Mason Stephens shows what it really looks like to adapt, rebuild, and choose the hard path with clear eyes. We talk with Clay and his Mum Louise about Poland syndrome, the brutal psychology of comparison during puberty, and the difference supportive parenting can make when a kid is determined to chase an elite sport dream.

We also get practical about men’s artistic gymnastics: the six apparatus, how specialisation happens, and why being an all-round athlete turns training into a constant time-management puzzle. Clay opens up about repeated ACL injuries, the rehab grind, and the mindset shift that helped him climb out of a dark COVID period while stranded in the US. His most important metric changes from perfect outcomes to something harder and more sustainable: self-trust built by showing up, and a promise to keep the sport fun enough to be worth the price.

Then we zoom out to the often-unspoken side of athlete life: money. Clay explains the financial pressure of training 30+ hours a week, why working a full day can be genuinely dangerous in gymnastics, and how scholarships and side work shape real decisions. We also explore generosity as a performance value, from giving up a Commonwealth Games high bar final spot so a teammate could medal, to trekking in Nepal and fundraising nearly $40,000 for earthquake-resilient classrooms with the Reach for Nepal Foundation. If you care about Australian sport funding, athlete wellbeing, injury recovery, and building a life bigger than results, this conversation stays with you.

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Transcript

Season Four And The Real Cost

Host Nat Cook 0:04

Welcome to season four of the Price You Pay podcast, hosted by me, Nat Cook, five-time Olympian and gold medalist, alongside our star interviewer Sarah from Chatterbox Media. Through conversations with Aussie Athlete Fund recipients, we uncover what it truly takes to reach the highest echelons of sport in this country. We invite family and key members of the athletes' journey to round out the discussion, revealing hurdles like travelling up to 700 kilometres a week just for training as rural athletes, or the cost of international travel for a parent chaperone to accompany their child to a major competition. These families are committed to do whatever it takes to support their kids from the grassroots to the green and gold jersey. Come along for the ride and listen in to what dreams are truly made of.

Meet Clay And Louise Stevens

Host Nat Cook 1:05

And now over to our master conversationalist, Sarah. Woo!

Conversationalist Sarah 1:14

What a day to sit down with a 28-year-old Australian male gymnast who is redefining what success looks like, whether it's on vault, the parallel bars, or the mountainous terrain of Nepal. Clay Mason Stephens has been overcoming most of his life. First, it was a rare diagnosis of Pollen syndrome, which left him peckless. Is that even a word? On his right side. Playing most sports, doctors warned his parents would be unavailable for someone without a pectoral muscle. Gymnastics captured his heart at only age five. Five knee surgeries attempted to slow him down, as did a short-lived pandemic retirement, but he would go on to make the Australian team for the 2022 Commonwealth Games, where he finished fourth in the all-around competition. When money dried up for Australian athletes, Clay accepted a scholarship to the University of Illinois, where he soaked up more than just his $250,000 free education. Clay would go on to discover more of who he was on the mountains of Nepal in 2024, where he now raises money for children in schools in conjunction with the Australian charity Reach for Nepal Foundation. Most recently, Clay competed at his fifth World Championships in Jakarta. Welcome, Clay and Mum Louise to the Price We Pay podcast, where season four is somehow upon us. So shall we get stuck into it?

Clay Mason Stephens 2:35

Yes, thank you very much for having us on here.

Conversationalist Sarah 2:38

You're welcome. Can you believe that's your life, Clay?

Clay Mason Stephens 2:41

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I will have to get uh uh uh You're gonna correct me? Come on, do it six. Yeah, I I'd love to be uh to be named as fourth at Comeworth Games All-Round Final, but there there are some I made three three different uh uh finals but didn't come fourth in the all-round. That would have been pretty good, but we'll see if we can do that this year.

Conversationalist Sarah 2:59

Just just leave it on there and then AI will pick it up. And then basically, we are creating something into your future that you didn't know.

Clay Mason Stephens 3:07

Perfect.

Conversationalist Sarah 3:08

On that note, Nat um Nat was on the biggest loser years ago when she was qualifying for fifth Olympics, and they said in her intro, oh, you know, five-time Olympian, whatever it was, and she hadn't qualified yet, and it was tight. And uh she remembers that moment, like you're experiencing right now, like, oh, they said something that's not quite right. And she just like went into she basically said, Well, I'm just gonna own that. And you know, she made a kind of a joke about it, but yes, it it can get a little uncomfortable, can it, when we get our the stats wrong.

Clay Mason Stephens 3:43

Yeah, no, but it's it's it's all good. There's so many stats to remember with with amongst all the athletes, it gets a bit tricky, especially in gym when there's six apparatus and all-round and team, it gets a bit messy.

Conversationalist Sarah 3:54

But I agree, because as I researched you, and we're gonna talk a little bit about how many specialties there are, but I don't know if you can do this, Clay, but you started, it was, or so the stats say, you

The Day Gymnastics Clicked

Conversationalist Sarah 4:05

started at age five in gymnastics, and that may seem forever ago. But can you remember what it was way back then? Like how did gymnastics really capture you?

Clay Mason Stephens 4:16

Uh well, I just started, I was invited to start in the program. Basically, there was it was called the junior elite talent squads, this is gym jets, and they basically came around to different schools in the state and identified sort of um quote unquote talent. But uh, a lot of my mates at school were picked into it, which I mean they ended up being six foot four and and super broad dudes that would never have been good for gymnastics. So I think they were probably just uh suit uh searching for a couple extra numbers. But yeah, I was invited to try out, and uh, I think I just wanted to be doing things all the time. I love sport, I love running around, I love having fun, and I also loved the challenge of gymnastics. It was something different that no one in my family had done before, being able to flip around and uh all that sort of stuff. So without being able to remember exactly what I was thinking when I was five, I can imagine it's probably something along those lines.

Conversationalist Sarah 5:04

Yeah, right. Do you actually, Mum? I would invite you quickly in if you don't mind. If there were, do you remember anything back then? Because I think he was quite an athlete, like he liked a lot of sports. So can you remember at all what it was about gymnastics that he loved so much?

Mum Louise 5:20

I think probably it was the physicality of the throwing yourself around. He was a very energetic little boy that would put himself into anything and everything and was everywhere all the time. If he wasn't climbing, he was jumping or something. So it sort of brought all those things that he loved doing together, but actually did it in an ordered manner rather than just sort of legs and arms flailing around. So I think that's what in that that's I think what actually drew him into the sport.

Conversationalist Sarah 5:45

Huh. I yeah, I've always been uh really interested in what really captures kids. So that's good to know. So lots of energy and somehow it structured you in

All-Round Life Across Six Events

Conversationalist Sarah 5:55

a little bit, Clay. So you kind of we already did mention that there are many different events to choose from in the discipline of gymnastics. So can you describe how specialties arise? And were you more of an overall gymnast or were you specifically suited to one event over another?

Clay Mason Stephens 6:12

Yeah, so basically there's six total events in the men's for men's artistic gymnastics, which is floor, pommel horse, rings, vault, parallel bars, and high bar. And if you compete all of them at a competition, you're then eligible to be part of the all-round competition, uh, or you can specialize and go and do one or two or three uh of the events just by themselves. Uh, it's pretty typical that kids or everyone will do all six of them for the majority of their junior years. And then as you get a little bit older, you start finding little niches that you're good at or apparatus that you aren't so good at, and it's worthwhile dropping them to focus on others. For me, uh I've always done all-round bar a little hiatus last year where I just did a couple apparatus. So um I've always loved doing all of them. I love the variety of all of them. I'm not particularly amazing at all of them, but uh I think, you know, again, the challenge is is really important to me and keeps me motivated. So uh yeah, I've always been an all-round athlete, uh, which yeah, it means I do all six of them, which can make time management at training quite difficult.

Conversationalist Sarah 7:10

But yeah, good point. Because yeah, if somebody's just specializing on vault and you're doing six

Training Through Poland Syndrome

Conversationalist Sarah 7:15

different practices, yeah, that's a good point. You know, a lot of people, a lot of attention for you has been focused on not having a pectoral muscle, and you're probably a little tired of talking about it. But did it affect or deter in any way how you moved up the ranks in the sport and in terms of certain apparatuses more challenging? And like, how do you balance your body when in theory it's out of balance?

Clay Mason Stephens 7:43

Uh yeah, it's it's a hard one to answer, mainly but just because I don't have any experience with two PECs, you know. So I was born without one of them. So it's it's really been my reality since I was since I was born. But uh, I think I was really lucky to have support in the junior years from like my family, but also from my coaching staff and people around me. And it didn't have a massive impact probably up until I was sort of I gonna, I don't know, early-ish sort of teens, and when you know, sort of the male body starts, or all bodies start to actually develop a little bit more. Um, that's when I started noticing the sort of um the aesthetic of it started to affect me a little bit, how it looked. And then after that was sort of how I performed. I know there was times where I was a little bit, you know, upset or whether there was bullying going on or whether it was just internalizing me just wanting to look like everyone else. There was sort of hard moments in in that sort of period, but then also uh the physicality of it, like you said, gymnastics is very much around um body positioning and um symmetry and things like that. So having being inherently asymmetrical is obviously a little bit of a barrier to overcome. But yeah, I there were there were times I think where I went to mum and dad, and and when I was younger and just said, listen, this is really difficult. Like, you know, I might have been crying to them, just been like, this is so hard. And I was really lucky that I had supportive parents in the fact that they were always gonna support me to keep going or stop. It was up to me always. But sort of, you know, mum can sort of attest to this or not. But my memory uh tells me that it was the the answer to that was, well, do you want to do this? And my answer was yes. And their response was, Well, these are the people you've got to compete against. So, like you take it or leave it, you've you've got to roll with the punches. This is what you've got to deal with. And I think that mentality, um, and also the mentality of never actually trying to adjust my training for the pet. I think that the best thing, and this is some of the advice I give to other people who have pollen syndrome, um, given that there are a lot of varying um severities of pollen syndrome, so people with a similar case of Pollen syndrome to me, the best way to combat that is actually to treat your body as as very, very normal. Don't don't do different weights on one side versus the other side. Just really try to stay symmetrical, and your the body is incredibly um capable at adapting and my my right shoulder and my right back and my abdominals, everything's sort of adjusted to sort of help me out.

Conversationalist Sarah 10:06

So okay, you just said it at the end then. So you're telling me you can lift the same weight. So what would it be? A bench press. So you could press the same on your right as your left?

Clay Mason Stephens 10:20

Pretty close, yeah. So I mean, as as I've as I've gotten older, it gets a little bit more tricky. So, and that's sort of we can go into this a little bit more, but as you get into more senior levels of gymnastics, rings, and the really the ones that require a lot of strength, that's sort of the pinnacle, the top two, three percent of the strength is where I struggle. Um, but yeah, so a standard bench press. If I'm doing it with say dumbbells, they'll get to a point where if I'm if I'm um pressing my right arm or tire before my left arm.

Speaker 3 10:50

Yeah, wow.

Clay Mason Stephens 10:51

But I will I would never lift lighter on my right so that they lift in the same. I think it's really important to always just try to lift the same same weight on both. Um, is sort of how I've gone about it.

Conversationalist Sarah 11:01

So cool. I mean, yeah, it's so interesting to think about it in like you're the demonstration that the body works itself out and figures out the symmetry. And I think that's I think we can all take something from that. Think about my yoga, you know, and what I can take from what you just said about symmetry. So thank you, Clay. Um, so mom, I am curious about from a parent perspective, when you get a diagnosis about a syndrome that you possibly have never heard of, and yet he's really sporty and athletic, what is it like to receive that news as parents? And how did you guys go about it?

Mum Louise 11:43

We actually got the news when he was one and a half that he has Poland syndrome, it was picked up by a um pediatrician. And at the time, you know, they they did a few other tests because there are some other things that Poland can it can bring, and Clay was cleared for all of those. So at one and a half and two, we didn't even think about it. And he was a very energetic, very determined little boy, and he just got on with life. And so we really put no restrictions against him at all and just said, you know, whatever you want to do, go for it and let's see where you go. Like we had his two older brothers. The only time that I felt began to get anxious and concerned wasn't that Clay was having any obvious issues with it, but I felt as he was climbing into the more elite levels was, are we setting this young man up to fail because he has one peck left missing? And should we encourage him when it is a possibility that we're encouraging him to fall off the edge of the cliff because he just can't physically do it? So when he was in his probably 14, 15, we went to the coaches just as a question to say, how is his symmetry? How's he going with this? Because if he's if you're beginning to see it flail now, then maybe we need to be just having that discussion with Clay as to this could become a problem. Not that it is a problem, but it could be so that we could be honest with him about it. Um, but the coaches were saying, listen, we are not aware of any any symmetry. He works really hard, he's so determined that we will let you know if we have concerns, and no one has ever spoken about, and he's now 28 about concerns, and he's very determined. And so if he wants to do something, he's going to put up a big fight to do it. So that was my only concern was that should we be really overly supportive of something we might feel that he can't achieve? But he's proved everybody wrong, really, with that. So we just let him go and let him take it away, take it away.

Conversationalist Sarah 13:36

Yeah. And Clay, you mentioned too, in inside of what your mum was saying, the one thing that seemed to come up was the look, like you know, the aesthetic growing up. How big a deal was that for you? And now are you it sounds like you kind of like being different, but tell me more. Like, is the aesthetic does it matter at all to you anymore?

Clay Mason Stephens 13:58

Uh look, I I'd love to say it doesn't. Um, and it doesn't affect me on a daily basis at all compared to what it might have done. But I think it would be naive for me to say it doesn't, it's not there, you know, it's not something that I notice. Yeah, but would I ever change it? Like, no, now I there was a period of time where I would. I I think I probably would have said like there was times where not that we're looking into it ever, but I was sort of googling like what is it, like what's an implant look like and those sort of things, and how would that affect this or that? Um, but honestly, that was it was sort of back again, sort of going through puberty, um, when all the boys around, I mean, so I was sort of a little bit of a late developer through puberty anyway. So I was shorter, I was skinnier, all my mates are sort of getting big, getting a bit stronger, and sort of at that sort of age, you want to be, you you want to feel like a man. You know, 14 years old, you want to be the man already. And I think that was a hard period, and it is a tough period for most men and women going through puberty and all those sort of changes. So it was just an extra variable to deal with. But um, as far as the aesthetics now, it's sort of yeah, I mean, it's it just is what it is. Uh, the way that I like to think about it is that everyone sort of everyone has their their battles and the things that they struggle with. Mine's just physical, which to be honest with you, I'd probably take that over some of the other mental struggles that people struggle with. So um it's just it is just one of the things that you gotta yeah, roll of the punches.

Mum Louise 15:18

Thank you for your honesty.

Body Image And A Parent’s Approach

Mum Louise 15:20

If I could just interrupt that, there was there was a conversation that Clay brought up one time when I was picking him up from the gym, and and he was he wasn't happy with the fact that he hadn't got a pec. And he said, Mom, you know, I I'd like to have a chat with you about maybe having a pectoral implant. And he was probably 14, 15, and I sort of calmly sort of said, Yeah, we absolutely we can have a chat. But I said, you know, really, I don't think we should do it until if you were to do it, I don't think we should do it until you're really fully developed playing with men that's you know, 21, 22, hoping that he would it would have gone away by then, but I was not gonna shut him down with it because I had to roll with him and let him, you know, let him explore it. Um, and and that's what he did, I think. And I found a photograph on my iPad that he'd done one of those mirror to see what he looked like with pecs on both sides, which made me feel really sad because he was obviously investigating for his own look to see. Um, but we we talked about it and it was never off the table to discuss, but I never honestly thought we were going to go that way. But he had to have the opportunity to discuss it and feel that it was okay to discuss, and it wasn't something that we were gonna just say, no, that's that's a ridiculous idea. So he he went through stages of that, but he, you know, very soon he wasn't on your you had other things to worry about, didn't you, really clay? Training it wasn't, it became a non-issue. But it he did go through a little stage where um and it you his your nickname, his nickname at the gym, I think it was gym or school, was Nemo. So if there was a time where that became a little bit of a grating factor, but but I thought it was quite term of endearment, but I don't think Clay always felt that.

Conversationalist Sarah 16:54

Well, I just want to acknowledge very good mothering, just there, or parenting, um in terms of yeah, but even people listening, I I think that's wonderful advice um of how you handled that. And often in parenting we do it a women of prayer, and then after the fact it's great when it turns out. So um thank you for sharing all of that because I think that's more and more these I had so many thoughts about kids um maybe wanting to alter their bodies in different ways. So I think I think it's quite pertinent um for people. And I remember even back in school, you know, some people who did things to their noses and different things over time. So it is a big moment in our lives. And I think you're really honest, Clay, about owning it. Like when you said it is what it is, it's that's quite powerful, actually, to say that. Um, and so it's quo so we've been talking, you know, we we lead with the peck, of course. Um, and yet

Six Knee Surgeries And Self-Trust

Conversationalist Sarah 17:55

the knees, okay, how rude of the knees to sideline you, um, Clay. So, how did you deal with those injuries over the years? And and then to have the comeback and then to perform at age 28. And by the way, is that old in gymnastics, or is that I I feel like now it's more normalized to be a little bit older in gymnastics. Is that right?

Clay Mason Stephens 18:16

Yeah, the age is definitely going up. Both men's and women's average ages will be going up for sure. Um, but it's definitely definitely past Wednesday in my in my career. It's definitely past hump day for my career probably. But um yeah, well, the knees, yeah, how rude of them, really. But uh uh yeah, so yeah, so three ACL tears, and I've had an MCL tear and two meniscus tears, so six surgeries on the knees. And yeah, honestly, I I think early days, the first couple knee surgeries were quite earlier, uh early in my career. Um again, I think I was 20 for my first one. I think the the comeback from those ones were it was devastating, especially the first one was right before 20 uh 2018 Commonwealth game. So it was devastating for me. But my goals of what I wanted to achieve were just they were so strong and I had so much of that sort of young drive that it was just I think I got my surgery and I was in the gym the next day. It's just like not a single day off, it was just just get after it. Um, the second one was a little bit more tricky. Um, I think, yeah, this the second one was obviously I knew I knew what had happened. So it's sort of the first one, it's all a bit novel, it's a new experience. So you sort of you're working it out as you go. The second one's pretty tough because you, you know, I know exactly what the feeling was. It was on my other knee. And I just, you know, re reflect and go, I know exactly what's coming up for the next 12 months, and it is hell for 12 months or just under. So that was a little bit tough. Um, but uh through those periods, I did a lot of work um on goal setting, but not necessarily strict um traditional goal setting of what I wanted to achieve, but more, and again, this is a process I'm still working on, honestly, but who I want to become, and I think setting goals on who the sort of person that you want to be rather than the exact things that you want to achieve is more powerful because it gives you gives you a bit of wiggle room because when you do injure yourself, or if something doesn't quite work out, you actually your goal is still in action. Whereas if you injure yourself, it feels like there's a massive road bump or you know, roadblock set up in front of you. Whereas, you know, you can reflect on the goal and say, well, what sort of person do I want to become? And how would that person react to this sort of this sort of obstacle? And it's it just made things a little bit more achievable. And I think the the consistent, you know, six days a week training, the amount of effort that I put into that and weights and my planning and my recovery and nutrition, all these sort of things, I had so much evidence and I like to talk about trust, self-trust. Um, and sort of the analogy that I like, a little simple analogy that I like to use is if someone's if you organize to go for coffee with someone and they cancel, and then you organize again and they cancel. I mean, they do that three, four, five times. You're not gonna trust that they're gonna come to the coffee the next time. And I think as athletes um and as people, it's really easy for us to overlook building our own self-trust. And I think the waking up at 6 a.m. every single morning and getting to training on time every day, six or six days a week for 20 years or however long it might be, the amount of self-trust you build, because you've just shown up for yourself every single time, and no matter how you feel, you've shown up. So for me, building that self-trust was was an enabled me to trust the goals that I'd set and get back out there. I think by the third ACL, there was a little bit that the evidence of self trust, but then the also the evidence of can my body handle this, it started to get a little bit you know out of whack. So I think that's where I had a really tough time after my third ACL. It was I was over in America and the COVID had hit as well. Wasn't allowed back into Australia. I had my first, I tore my ACL and my MCL. I had my first ACL surgery, and then they said I wasn't allowed the second one. So I was stuck in between two surgeries on crutches. They basically evacuated the whole campus. I was in a five-bedroom apartment by myself and wasn't allowed to come back home. So I was sort of isolated.

Conversationalist Sarah 22:18

Oh my goodness.

Clay Mason Stephens 22:19

Physically, emotionally, socially, everything. So um, so not only that, so I I couldn't really show up that much for myself because there was no training to go to. I was just at home. And then the other side of me was going, Well, how can I trust a body that's now broken for the X amount of time in a row? So I think I went through a really tough time because of the balance of trusting versus not trusting myself was there. And that sort of leads into the small semi-retirement period where I had where I was like, well, just throw arms up in the air a little bit, a little bit of give up mentality, which again, I'm, you know, I would I wouldn't change. But obviously, it's something you look back on, you learn from, and you wish you had it differently. But I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't gone through that period.

Conversationalist Sarah 23:00

So and in that period, so that was a great lead-in. What led to you coming back? So what was it within you? And was this when you started this revelation around who I want to be versus just setting an outcome goal?

Clay Mason Stephens 23:16

Yeah, I I had a there's a really specific moment. I've talked about it before on a couple other podcasts, but um, I went back into when the gym opened back up. I had my second surgery. I went back into the gym because my trainer or my physio was working at the gym with the guys. Again, at this point, I'd sort of had no real intention of getting back into training. So I was doing some chin-ups and stuff, just doing some general body stuff because I was again at the at the gym with the with the team, and technically I was still a team captain at this point, so I sort of had I had sort of had to show up. But uh, and one of the younger guys on the team was about to jump up onto the parallel bars, and he he uh looked at me and goes, dude, how sick is gymnastics? He was so pumped, he was like, How awesome is this sport? We're gonna flip around, do all this crazy stuff. This is just the best thing ever. And my first thought wasn't, yeah, you're right. My first thought was I've never ever thought that in my whole life. Like this has just been my job and I've worked for it and I've loved it because it's given me purpose, but I've never, well, no, not never, but since since I've gone into these senior years, I've I'd lost sight of how cool it is what we do. And honestly, it was pretty much on a dime that I spun around at that point and went, all right, I want that. That's I'm gonna get back into this because I want that and I'm not leaving this. I deserve that, is basically what I thought. I've gone through so much that I I deserve to feel that fun in the sport again. And that was sort of the little promise that I made myself was you can get back into it and and and uh have a crack at it, but only uh you're not gonna that's not a cost you're willing to pay anymore. Like you need to you need to experience that fun. So that's a little check for me when things are going a bit rough. I have to sort of weigh it up. Am I still having fun? And look, high performance sport isn't always fun. So it's not like every day has to be fun, but overall, if I take a step back and zoom out, am I is this is this

COVID Isolation And Finding Fun Again

Clay Mason Stephens 25:05

giving or taking my happiness, basically?

Conversationalist Sarah 25:08

Wow. And how does that relate to you how what did you notice about performance when you started having fun as a leading driver versus maybe pointing your toes? Um, you know, like Do you love that? Like, what does she know about gymnastics? Um, so does that yeah, what did you notice about your performance or maybe even just what an event was like, you know, when you actually went to a world with joy or happiness or fun as a leading purpose?

Clay Mason Stephens 25:39

Yeah, it's a massive switch, massive switch in training. I'm a bit of a hothead at training sometimes because I just want it so bad, I want to get it right. So um, yeah, it depends who you ask is whether they people think that I've changed too much. But um, I'm I've just got so much passion. I've I love it so much that you know I I want it so bad. And that's my passion comes out in different ways sometimes. But yeah, it changes training, training becomes more enjoyable, uh, the reps become easier. You just don't take yourself so seriously. It's one thing that I try to work on is again, it's it's not a competition every single day. And I think that's probably one of the biggest battles that I've had to come up against is that it is a competition in my head, it's a competition, and I'm being judged, and it's it's make or break every single day, which is a bit of you know, it's pros and cons for that because it's probably got me to where I am, but also it's probably made me feel pretty crappy for for a lot of it too. So um, but yeah, I think uh coming I qualified for the Commonwealth Games in 2022, and after missing the 2018 Commonwealth Games because my first ACL, it felt like a little bit of a redemption tour. And um, honestly going into that competition to have fun, enjoy the moment, and be really, really present was one and only of what the the one and only goal that I had for the competition, and it was to date still the most enjoyable competition I've ever had.

Conversationalist Sarah 26:56

That is so cool. Mom, can you remember this time when he was maybe at his lowest? And obviously he was overseas, so he wasn't with you, but what did what do you do as parents? Now that added layer that he wasn't even he was so many oceans away. What is that like? And how do you support a child who you know is is contemplating giving up the dream?

Mum Louise 27:22

It was really hard, actually, because he was so far away, and I had some really desperate phone calls from him, and you sort of think all I need to do is get on a plane and get there and just be, you know, but I couldn't and he couldn't come home. Um, so it was really tough, and we had lots of conversations, and sometimes it was really hard because I didn't know what to say to help, and nothing I said could help because he was really low, and I think he'd lost who he was, and he was saying to me things like, you know, who am I if I'm not a gymnast? So that was almost my God, I've got to do it. I don't want to do it anymore, but who am I? And I said, Clay, you're so much more than a gymnast. Um, but he had to work through all that, which I think he's done remarkably well. Um, and then it was also at one point when he was in America, when all the other boys had gone home, there was a very, very kind family with one of the um gymnasts uh that Clay trained with, who was a good friend of his too, and his parents invited him to uh California for three weeks. And I had never met her, and I still haven't met her, but we're quite good friends now because I called her and said, Listen, I'm so grateful, but please be honest with me. If at any time when you're with Clay and you're worried about him, because he was in a really difficult place, please call me. I don't don't hide it from me. Don't think, my goodness, if I was a mother, I'd I'd hate to know they're so low. I need to know. And so it was really reassuring for me to know that there was someone that I really did trust, even though I didn't know her, that would, you know, I really said anytime. And I actually spoke to his coach as well, which I don't know that you knew that, Clay, but I spoke to him as well and said, you need to be there for him. You know, you you I am here, and I'm hearing some really difficult conversations, I'm having some difficult conversations with Clay. Um, and I need you to step up in a way, because he's there, you are someone that is looking after him, but it's difficult because it's COVID, but you need to do that. And so that helped me too because he did. Um, you know, he stepped up, I think, and and helped in ways that supported Clay. And so it was the the only thing I could do was to contact people and make contacts with people there just to say, you have to be me, sort of thing. You know, I'm here and I can talk to any of you at any time, and including Clay, obviously, but I can't physically be there for my son, which is exactly what I want to be. So it was a really difficult time, actually. Um, and I felt that Clay had really lost the passion for it and he'd lost the drive to push again. And I know he just thought, I can't go through another year of rehab. And we were very happy to support him to not do any more. It was entirely up to him what he wanted to do. But I in my back of my heart, I knew that he still felt that he had things to show to prove to himself. Um, so it was a balancing act to not just say, yeah, that's mine, just pack it up and come home, or be too optimistic, then putting pressure on him because oh my goodness, now my parents want me to keep going. So again, it's making that balance of sort of skirting around things and just being there and just listening, really. But it was a really, really tough time.

Conversationalist Sarah 30:21

Gosh, didn't COVID drive this the pressure cooker? And you know, they say diamonds are created through pressure, and you just hear that scenario for you as a parent, for Clay as an athlete, like the pressure, like in within yourself to figure out even who you are. And I think a lot of sounds like a lot of the work you did, Clay, was things that a lot of retired athletes are facing post-sport, and you were sort of you were in it still, and so now we can see as you know, where you've come to, which is incredible. But yes, in the moment it's just grueling. And so, with a lot of what we've been talking about, is a lot of the physical, the mental. Talk me through, Clay, the financial part of things, where um it sounds like at some points like finances really dictated different choices that you made, you know, whether it was going overseas for the scholarship, or like how did you pay for travel, when even domestically, internationally? Talk me through the the financial challenges.

Clay Mason Stephens 31:30

Yeah, so the the college, the opportunity to go overseas to college came right. Well, it was in the works sort of for me to test the waters, but uh really only got across the line after I'd actually taught my ACL, and they were still happy to have me. And I thought, I've got a year of rehab anyway, so let's go check it out. So honestly, it was more so this is a this is an awesome opportunity financially to get supported um for a really expensive degree, also another opportunity to travel and be in a new environment, new culture, have new coaches. It would just seem like a an opportunity I didn't want to turn down at that point. Um, but yeah, the finances over there were obviously super helpful. My um my living costs were covered and also food, food and stuff was covered. But again, there was no beyond gymnastics, and I think this is some of the financial struggles as sort of again squeeze you back into just being a gymnast because the financial support was to support me to be a gymnast and obviously to study over there, but then socially and stuff, there was no extra, obviously, money there. You had to work, I didn't have any time to work, so I'm training 30 hours a week and full-time studying as well. And it's sort of the same thing I experience here. It's difficult because, on one hand, I want to dedicate all of my time and all of my energy towards training and preparing for competitions and performing at my best at the same time that you know, now being 28, I live out of home, lived out of home since I was 17. So I've been out of home for over what 11 years now. And um yeah, I want to provide for myself. I'm an adult, you know. I don't I don't want to ask for handouts, I won't don't want to work. So the way that I navigate financial stuff at the moment is just trying to work and trying to utilize sort of the skill sets that I've learned through gymnastics and um push them towards whether it be keynote speaking or mentorship stuff. I also do disability support work at the moment. So at the moment, my yeah, the the the finances is it's something that every athlete has to juggle, and especially in a sport like gymnastics when you're training 30 plus hours a week. Uh yeah, I think one of the other the battles that we come up against gymnastics, there's been some swimming coaches before that have come and helped out. And other sports they come in and say, well, XYZ athlete who you know was an Olympic gold medalist or whatever, they would work as well. And they'd work and then they'd go to training, which is awesome. It's great that they can do that. But the one variable that we have to deal with and some other serious sports um have to deal with, is we I have to I have to do a triple backflip of fiber, you know, at 6 p.m. at night. I can't do that after eight hours of eight hours of work during the day. So not only is it just the time because I'm working so much, it's also, you know, if a swimmer is tired, they're not gonna, they're not gonna break their necks diving into the pool. You know, they might have swim a little bit slower. But if I rotate a little bit slower, if I lose myself in the air because I'm not focused, because I'm tired from the cognitive load or the physical load of work, depending on what that work is, I can land on my head. Doing the skills that I've doing, there was someone very recently, an athlete, an Italian national team member landed on his head um and he's now paralyzed. And there was another kid that was doing something into a pit. I think I don't think he was a kid, actually, he was 17, 18 years old, um, and he passed away. He's he's now dead. So the the sport that we do is so dangerous that I think, I mean, all sports, every every single athlete that's trying to go for a high level has to deal with this. Um, but I think there is the added in some of these extreme

Money Pressure And A Dangerous Workload

Clay Mason Stephens 34:55

sports, there is the added pressure of being like, Well, I I I can't afford to to miss my legs on a landing because I'll I could break my leg, I could, I could die. I could break my neck.

Conversationalist Sarah 35:05

It's like Simone Biles brought that up, I thought, at the Olympics when she made that decision during an Olympics and said, you know, like really showed us all that when your mindset isn't there, like how dangerous it was, and how yeah, if that if that mindset starts getting into you, and like you're saying, if you're stressed out or you're exhausted, I think that's an important thing to bring up. We whenever we watch the Winter Olympics, we always comment in particular, like these are life-threatening. Like beach volleyball was not as life-threatening um as gymnastics, or exactly what you said. So I think it's it is important to bring that up and cognitive load when it comes to working. And yeah, you can't just fit that training in at night after eight days, yeah, eight-hour shifts. So I think that is an important thing to mention and another thing that you have to deal with. Um, I know you're coming, like speaking of cognitive load, I'm really happy we get to talk to

Giving Up A Final For A Teammate

Conversationalist Sarah 36:10

you before your next Commonwealth Games prep. But I did want to ask, there was this little mention in an article about at the 2022 Commonwealth Games, you gave up a spot, a coveted spot in the horizontal bar final to a teammate, Tyson Bull, I think it was. And I'm really curious about that choice because I don't hear about that often. And it just kind of stuck out as something I wanted to ask you about. And yeah, can you describe that?

Clay Mason Stephens 36:38

Yeah, I think, oh, I mean, like I mentioned, Commonwealth Games was a competition I went into with a completely different mindset. The mindset was to enjoy myself and to be really present and to, you know, not be taken away by the nerves and taken away by the pressure. And I think, you know, that was an interesting situation because like like like you mentioned, so I qualified in top eight position. I think I don't know if I was eighth or seventh place for the high bar final. And Tyson typically is was our our best high bar worker at the time and made a slight error in his qualification. I was sitting in ninth or tenth place or something. So basically, I I had full power. If I just withdraw, he gets put in. So the it was a really, really tricky situation to be in because obviously, you know, knowing Commonwealth games come around once every four years, this might be my only ever chance to compete in a high bar final. Um, I was lucky enough to make the all-round final and the floor final, and floor was sort of my pet event more so than high bar. So I guess I had to sit back and try to take a really holistic approach to what decisions I wanted to make. And it I I like to think about gymnastics as a team sport as much as it's an individual sport, but we went in there with a really strong team mentality, and my thought was what an awesome opportunity to have the option to actually give my teammate, you know, a possibility of getting a medal, you know. And I thought, I've made a couple finals. Tyson, this was his this was his final that he wanted to make. He was so close and he made a mistake. And I had to think about it. I was thinking, you know, as much as I've earned the right to compete in this final, hit for hit, he's beating me, and he actually has a medal chance. And like I would be very lucky if I was to squeeze into the medal position here. So um, yeah, I think it might have been a different story if I hadn't qualified for floor finals or all-round finals and things like that. But I just thought, you know, that this is this is an opportunity that I might never get again, both competing in the hyper final, but also the the the ability to provide an opportunity to someone else. And you know, the the the weight of of being able to prov provide him with that opportunity outweighed the the cons. And he went out and you know, I made sure to tell him, listen, there's there's no pressure. I'm giving you this because I want you to compete in it, not because you I expect you to win a medal or anything. Yeah, sure. Just go and have fun, like sort of take the mentality that we've all been using at this competition and go have a good time. And he went out and got a silver medal.

Conversationalist Sarah 39:05

So no, yeah, goosebumps, I didn't know that part. Yeah, oof, oof. Whoa, that's kind of emotional, isn't that? Yeah, I was like, I love that you said opportunity, and I like I think it flows beautifully into what you said about how who you're becoming and um just how it can affect the changes. Mom, what did you think? I yeah, I don't know. I just got a moment there. I don't know if you were emotional.

Mum Louise 39:32

What did you think when you're it was a it was a it was a really big time, and it and obviously he Claire done really well. He got into three finals, and then he called me to tell me that he was thinking about this option. Um and and I really all I said to him, I think that if I remember correctly, was whatever decision you make is the right decision, Clay. You've earned it, but also what an amazing gift to give to your teammate if you choose to do that. And the decision has to be yours. And and that what more could I say, really? But I was very, very proud of him. And the fact that Tyson then got a silver medal was just the icing on the cake, and it was it was amazing. I mean, it was such a generous gift that Clay gave, and it, you know, I'm sure I know Tyson was incredibly grateful and will be forever for that opportunity that he took and did well with. But yeah, I'm very, very proud really is the biggest thing I could say, and what an amazing gift that he gave Tyson, which was very, very big. It was an amazing time. Yeah.

Conversationalist Sarah 40:31

I mean, I think as you transition in your career over the years, you start to think, what are the things that really matter? Like all the, you know, the way we wait it when we're younger seems to change a little as you get older. And even when you think about someone's story, I you know, I'm a storyteller, and I it's the funny the things that weight higher than we think. It's always gonna be the medals. And I didn't cry because Tyson got a medal, I cried because somebody gave him another

Nepal, Perspective, And Building Classrooms

Conversationalist Sarah 41:00

chance. You know, it's like, and so that's perfect lead-in to you raising money for children in Nepal. Like, were this was this the same kind of thread that was starting to run through you as you were in Nepal? I I got the sense that you were sort of finding yourself a little. Um are there similar threads there for you? And is this the person that you want to become and are becoming?

Clay Mason Stephens 41:26

Yeah, I think yeah, like I said, the the goal of the the goal of trying to trying to aim at who I want to be rather than what I want to do is a really important one that's helped me make a lot of these decisions. And in 2023, I did a trek up in um in Africa with my two brothers, and that trip was really all about just trying to drop the phone and get to know myself a little bit more. It was again 2023. So after all the injuries and then the build back to Commonwealth Games, and then it was a little bit of a lull after that. I was just sort of trying to work out right, I need a you know, little checkpoint, let's just check in on who I am at the moment and who I who I want to be. Uh, and after that trip, I had a lot of self-um self-reflection and development. I felt amazing afterwards, but I did feel a sense of uh selfishness, which is probably not a good way to look at it, but but I I felt I just I got so much for myself out of the trip in Africa that I just I felt like I wanted to give something back. And I wasn't sure that was going to be, but basically I just said to myself, right, if I'm gonna do another trip like this through any sort of country, then I want to actually pair it with something. So if I'm if I'm going to get some sort of personal development out of this, I want to actually give something back at the same time. Uh so that's what I did. So I planned it, planned a trip over to Nepal where I summited two mountains and did three passes over there, spent 19 days pretty grueling stuff. Uh, and then yeah, fundraise for just under $40,000 to build an earthquake-resilient classroom with my strength and conditioning coach James Tatam. Um and yeah, went back last year and we actually slept on the the floor of the current school, which was going down and hands and knees built built the uh the second school as well as well as fundraising for it. So it's yeah, I just the brilliant yeah, it's it's a it's a little bit contradictory because you you're not doing it selfishly, but doing something 100% selflessly is actually the biggest way to get some sort of boost in endorphins and feel good about yourself. So it's this weird thing. If you can drop the selfishness, it actually comes back around and gives you what you're looking for anyway. So um, but yeah, just perspective. I think my whole thing isn't it?

Conversationalist Sarah 43:44

It's all in the order you do it too, isn't it? Like if you have the expectation of getting endorphins, then you you've kind of got it in the wrong direction. And yet I can see the direction that you've got it. And I wanted to ask, because I've had um some real awakenings in Nepal myself. And it was the people that taught me a lot about what you just said, the the selflessness. What did you learn from them that you think is now sort of lives in you and you're trying to practice back here in Australia?

Clay Mason Stephens 44:14

Yeah, I I think it's the they're not none of them are trying to I I didn't feel like none of them are trying to pressure me into anything, but they're just their the their gentleness and their kindness and their humility and their ability to look after someone. So for me, you know, coming from Australia, going, I'm just going to trek through the mountains, I'm a obviously a lot considering some of the wealth inequalities that they have, I'm much more wealthy than they are. You know, there's these people that have absolutely nothing. And yet they're treating me as if they're like they're looking after me. And it was just, again, a perspective shift. Every single thing that's come up, whether it be the injuries or the my peck stuff, or you know, missing out on different teams or being successful or climbing the mountain or building the school in Nepal, it's all provides you just it gives you a new perspective on life. And you know, whether it's a perspective you want to see or not, sometimes you it's a perspective you go, I wish I hadn't, I wish we could rewind and I'd not see things that way, because it doesn't necessarily always put you in the right light. But um, a more 360-degree view on on who you are, what you're doing, and what your impact is on the people around you is uh is really important to have. And I think you know, the people in Nepal, the experience in Nepal,

Fundraising That Fits Who You Are

Clay Mason Stephens 45:25

and um well, and and everything up to that was just yeah, it's it's a constant journey, and it's I'm excited about what new perspectives might be out there for me.

Conversationalist Sarah 45:33

Yeah, brilliant. And you raised funds, you and your um strength and conditioning coach raising you know forty thousand dollars and being able to sleep on the floor that you were able to be a part of. Just as a final curiosity, what have you learned at the Aussie Athlete Fund when it comes to fundraising? Because you're you're you're raising funds right now. What have you learned?

Clay Mason Stephens 45:58

Uh well I've learned a lot about well, honestly, drop dropping the the ego and the pride really is a big one. I mean, especially as a 28-year-old, it's really I find it really difficult to ask for handouts. So, you know, I again I try to leverage leverage the skills that I've got, and whether I be in gymnastics or in keynote speaking, and that's one thing that I learned for the Aussie Athlete Fund was really to lean into your strengths. And when I was fundraising for this school, I went, I have a few mates to play in the AFL and I got a bunch of them to sign some, you know, full team signed jerseys, and I spent a long time creating an auction, all this sort of stuff. Um, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours and weeks and weeks doing this, thinking, all right, this will be this will be where I get a chunk of this money. And I tried to sell them and auction them off and literally no bites. I didn't sell a single one of them. And that was so difficult because I was thinking, I've just put so much energy into this, and I've, you know, asked a lot of favors from my from my mates and my mates' mates and things like that. Um, but the reflection period and a lot of the stuff that I've learned through the Aussie Athlete Fund as well is just about, you know, why but basically I look back and go, what am I trying to sell AFL jerseys for? I'm a gymnast, you know, lean into what you can do. And I ended up running a um a gymnastics-based camp at uh all the way up gymnastics club in Sydney. Um and that been amazing support for me as well. Um, and raised five and a half thousand dollars in one day. So then it goes, okay, well, actually, you know, actually lean on your strengths, lean on what you put at, whether it be keynote speaking or the gymnastics side of things or that sort of stuff. Don't try to don't try to do what you think other people want you to do. Yeah, it's a good lesson what you're doing.

Conversationalist Sarah 47:34

Yeah, that is yeah, a good point is like it's not stay in your lane, that's the wrong thing, but it's more like the the whole message that you've been exuding is like finding out who you are and then just be that, like just be more of yourself and and trust and trust that something good will happen. And thank you so much for all that you're sharing. You're the message of who you are is really just coming through, and mom, you've got to be shining inside when you hear this boy of yours, you gotta be like, my guy. Yeah, and I know you have other boys, so you can't say there's no favorites. I have three brothers, so I know I'm the favorite, but I know she can't say that about you in the play. Um, but yeah, you've gotta be proud, mom, and just seeing the whole person.

Mum Louise 48:25

Very proud. And it's lovely to see him develop as a as a whole person, and you know, the way he gives to so many different things with so much gratitude and humbleness, and he yeah, he's he's a wonderful boy, I must say. I'm very, very proud of him.

Conversationalist Sarah 48:42

Yeah, and I want to just say that Clay, um, you don't know this, but just even knowing about you has kind of set the tone for the whole season. And what we we really want to focus in on is the power of how when you give to others, it it comes back to you. Like just watching that manifest in people and really highlighting that um was inspired by you. And and I think that's just what you're doing. You just just like the Nepalese people do, they're just being who they are and and they spread their fairy dust on all of us. So thank you for all that you've shared and who you're being.

Clay Mason Stephens 49:20

Thank you very much. Thanks for kind for your kindness and uh yeah, for a great interview.

Host Nat Cook 49:24

And

Closing And How To Get Involved

Host Nat Cook 49:25

that's a wrap on another episode of the Price You Pay podcast. We hope these stories move you to want to be part of these athletes' journeys. It is our mission at the Aussie Athlete Fund to create a sustainable funding model to support our athletes for both their financial well-being and the education to stimulate their own localised economy. To get involved, please visit our website at www.aussieathletfund.com and choose your impact. Whether that's as a corporate partner, teaming up with an athlete in our Million Dollar Challenge, buying a supporters' jersey, or signing up to host a great Aussie Athlete barbecue. Sharing the fund's mission or even an episode of this podcast is how we grow and expand the reach to better support these young athletes. Pressing the follow button means that you won't miss an episode. And giving us a great review is how these athletes' stories travel further afield. Be listening for the next captivating story of what it truly takes for these Aussie athletes to live their sporting dreams.