S1 Ep 7 Frankie & Felicia "God Slid in My DMs"

In a way, Frankie and Felicia have grown up together. They met in high school when she, in her words “Didn’t like him all that much.” But when they both came to faith after graduating, it was Facebook post that made Frankie slide into her DMs. He was pursuing a life in ministry – one that required him to be as committed to his role in the church as to his role as a partner. 

In this episode we talk about dating as Christians in a modern world, making time for each other despite demanding jobs, personal finances, and how to navigate offense in the relationship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Now early on, we had a very off checks and balance like because he would go go go go and like I would try to tag along, but it that got exhausting after a while because he was all ministry. If somebody was sick, he would go. If somebody called him for something, he would go.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

I don't want to be a public success and a private failure. I had to start to reevaluate and readjust. And so now we're at the point in our marriage and ministry. Um if the bills are paid, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Welcome to the love department, the heartwarming podcast uncovering the nature of love and relationships. I'm your host, Nick Lockhart. I'm a former matchmaker, writer, and a love theorist. I also really love a good karaoke. Today on the show, we're having church with Felicia and Frankie. They're a young and dynamic couple who reminded me that relationships are spiritual things. I do want to say that this episode makes extensive mention of Christianity. So if you are sensitive to that sort of speech, please use discretion when listening to this episode. As always, we go deep at the love department, and I didn't shy away from asking them a tough question or two about how faith and relationship dynamics work in a modern society. We also talk about healing from childhood trauma, how to balance family while being in leadership, and personal finances. I think you're really gonna enjoy them. Did you ever wonder what happened to that person you met in high school? Maybe the one you had a crush on, but were too shy to say anything. Or maybe, if you're like today's guest, you really didn't like each other all that much. Frankie and Felicia have been together for 13 years and married for 11 years. Something I'm sure that if you had told these two when they were high school unsweethearts, they wouldn't have believed. But it was a scroll down his Facebook feed that made Frankie send a DM.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

So you want story time. No, I'm just joking. So um basically what happened is I was introduced to Christ and I was doing my thing in church. So I see a post on Facebook from Felicia saying something about God. I said, Oh, I see you got saved. You know, I was all in her DMs, and when we first exchanged numbers, I would never forget, I said, Hey, send me a picture for your contact. You know, you know when you're younger, it's like, send me that contact picture. She sent me a picture, and I was like, she is fine. We exchanged phone numbers, and then the next conversation we had, we were talking about um the Bible. And she was telling me about a young man that she was dealing with, how he didn't believe God. And so I was like, Well, that's you know, if if you wanted to go in this area, that wouldn't be a good fit for you. You know, just being a friend. So we were friends first. I didn't steal nobody, I didn't do that. So as as a as a friend, I was letting her know in this walk, you have to have the right person. And if he's atheist and you're a believer, um, I don't think that will work good for your future. Um, either two things will happen. He will go on a boat with you, or you will end up going on his boat.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

We'll come back to that hot topic in just a few minutes about what to do when you're dating someone who doesn't share the same religion. But I couldn't resist asking Felicia her reaction to the DM from Frankie.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

So, Felicia, you get this DM from some guy you knew from high school. Because we've all been there. I got one last week. Um what was going through your head?

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Of course, it takes you back to high school. So you're like, hold on, wait a minute, wait a minute. This guy from high school that I really didn't like, that I really didn't like in high school, that I really didn't like is hitting me up. Let me see what he has to say. So now, mind you, I had a boyfriend at the time. So I was just like, mmm, this is about to be kind of off the wall. So let me give him a call. So I called him, kind of like, okay, I can kind of like we just vibe so well over the phone. We literally were on the phone for like two to three hours.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

No intention.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

No intention. We were just catching up, and it just seemed so organic and fluid at the time. And then when I realized how what time it was, I was like, oh man, I gotta get off the phone with you. I got a boyfriend. He was just like, Well, I want to invite you to my birthday party. And I was just like, Okay, I'll think about coming. Like, I'll think about it. I thought about it, I didn't come, but I did think about going.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

So after standing Frankie up on his birthday, Felicia made a random call on a whim and decided she was ready to meet face to face.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

I called him on the phone and I said, Hey, what are you doing today? And he was I'm not doing anything. I said, Well, I'm coming to your house. And randomly I said, Get dressed, whatever you're doing, I'm coming to your house to see you. And I pull up to his house and he comes outside. I was like, Oh, I don't remember this Frankie, you know, a little bit more put together than when he was in high school. So we just kind of like chatted um on the like face to face, and um, I went about my way, and the next day I broke up with my boyfriend. Not because of him, but because he spoke a word to me that really touched my heart. And literally from that point on, me and Frankie hung out every day.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

We hung out every day. I grew a liking to her, and uh, she grew a liking to me. However, we never voiced the R liking towards each other. Well, everybody was like, Y'all together, you just don't know it. I was like, No, that's just my friend. That's just my friend, you know. She was like, I'm his friend. That's it. That's it. We're just friends. So we were just hanging out, you know, and then one day we were sitting in a car, and then, you know, I like you. And she said, I like you too. And she was like, I like you a lot. And I said, I like you a lot. And then we started courting ever since then. Because she told me, um, she told me as we were developing this friendship, she had told me she had a vision of us in a courtship, and I called her crazy.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Courting. It's kind of an old-fashioned word for dating. And in the Christian community, it has some connotation of being more serious than just going out casually. It's the idea that you're not just going on dates, but you're going towards marriage. And so every part of your dating interactions are really geared towards trying to figure out if this person is a suitable life partner.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

I said, You're absolutely crazy. I am not looking for a relationship. I just want to continue on my journey with God, the peace that I had. And um, I didn't want nobody to come and mess that piece up. You know what I mean? So when she told me that she saw us in a courtship, I said, You're absolutely crazy.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

But but pause, he had the same vision of us being married. So he was calling me crazy, but yet I did because I didn't want to believe it.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Because I wasn't ready for another relationship, so I thought. I didn't want a relationship. I said, if that's the case, that will be years down the line, and it happened to be So what was it that made you fearful about really pursuing this relationship? What was keeping me was that I I had actually just got out of, I was engaged before. Um, and this particular relationship wasn't the best. Um, she actually cheated on me. And I knew it. And at the same time, she played as if though she did it. And so I remember the ride in the car, like somebody literally grabbed my heart and twisted it in different places. Like the feeling of that, you know how people say that it was like something gripped my heart, and I felt that it really gripped my heart. I felt it, it felt like I couldn't breathe when I got the information back. And it wasn't the fact that I was nervous or scared that somebody was gonna cheat on me, it was just the fact that I didn't want to go into another commitment, not here. And I didn't want to bring my insecurities from the past relationship in a new relationship.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

I think it's something that's not talked about enough. Oftentimes you tell me, oh, but you don't be vulnerable, you know, suck it up. Usually it's the roles are reversed. You know, it always makes me think, like, wow, what is wrong with society that we we do this to each other? I think a lot of the couples that I've spoken to as well, um, they also have expressed a lot of times you find the one right after the biggest heartbreaks. You know, a lot of times it comes when you really aren't looking for it and you don't want it. And who are you to say no when that person does come across your path?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Remember our first day, like it was yesterday. We went to Applebee's on our very first date, and um and they had karaoke.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

So you remember that?

SPEAKER_04 9:54

I do.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, see, the man don't always forget now. Uh two for 25. What it was. Two for twenty.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

No.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

It was two for twenty then. Oh, you know, inflation happened. So it was two for twenty, and we, you know, we had a good time. I remember you had the boneless, uh, sweet tie. Yeah, I remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Do you remember what you sung?

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Ordinary People by John Legend.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

No, I don't remember the songs, but I remember ordinary people.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

That's our go-to song.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

What was it about the other person that really made you treat this relationship differently than the past?

SPEAKER_03 10:33

What really kind of solidified or brought confirmation to that is he started dealing with me as Frankie in ways that I didn't expect a man to. Um, because I had seen so many different other examples of how men were, like in past relationships with boyfriends, even with down to how my dad treated me. It was just so much gentleness and kindness that was coming from him that it was kind of like just because I too didn't want a commitment. Like I did not want to be married, I didn't want kids, I didn't want any of that. But it was something that like his personality and just the love that he showed, even in a friendship, um, not overstepping boundaries, being respectful, um, it really just melted my heart. And it just showed me that I can actually have a life with this person. And even though I was in denial for like a long time, like, no, I can't see myself in another relationship. It was, he brought possibility back to that. So I started really like in essence, I started changing in different ways, and I could picture myself as a wife, I could picture myself as a mother. That was my confirmation that this could possibly be where I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

For me, honestly, I was just being me. Not only that, she felt as if though I was handling her, she was handling me in a way, I got you, I'm gonna look out for you. I never had that, you know. Just the feel that support on the back end. Um, I was like, wow, I'm a preacher. I didn't have a license to preach at the moment. However, I was still operating. I would go to the nursing homes. I would go, I used to drive a church van. She will go with me. She will ride in the van with me. I said I have to drop off about 10 people, and and I'll be finished dropping off people around 11 o'clock, maybe. Depending on what time we got out of, I got out of a church. And she was like, I go with you, I help you out. And she was just always there to to witness these moments, you know, going to people's homes, praying for them. Um, and she was just there, you know. She was like, I'll ride with you. I said, You don't have to, because I know I can, I can go, she can't, you know, she be sleep on the way, but I can go. And just just her support throughout the whole time, I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

One thing that couples in leadership tend to face is uh the difficulties that come with juggling um your responsibilities to other people and your responsibilities to your family. And this was something that Frankie and Felicia said that early on was quite a struggle for them. It took years to learn how to balance caring for each other, for their kids. While being in leadership positions and helping others.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Now, early on, we had a very off checks and balance. Like because he he would go, go, go, go. And like I would try to tag along, but it that got exhausting after a while because he he was all ministry. If somebody was sick, he would go. If somebody called him for something, he would go. If somebody needed him for the driving church van, he would go. If if somebody just needed him, he would go. And in some areas, in the beginning, because he didn't really didn't know how to balance it, it kind of left me behind. Now, in our relationship, when we were boyfriend and girlfriend, um, it was fine because we would hang out and then go back home. But in marriage, it definitely started taking a toll because, of course, we had our baby and I was taking care of our baby, but he didn't have the mama nurturing power, so he would go and leave me and the baby. So in the beginning, it was very, very hard. But after I started voicing to him, like, I can't do this by myself. Like, you have to be home. You can't hang out at church till 10 o'clock at night. You gotta come home, you gotta come home and help me out at the house.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Man, he's like, What you mean? God called me and it was ugly. Um, what happened? I have a I have an amazing leader for those on the podcast. His name is Bishop Spencer Riddick. Check him out. He was like, son, God calls you, yes, but he called you to your family first. I just had developed that go, go, go mentality. That that's that's what I was used to. I was used to, I don't know if you grew up in church, I was used to three services in a day. I was used to going to Tuesday night Bible study. If we had some kind of rehearsal on Thursday, um, some kind of event on Saturday, then we back in church on Sunday, right? Um, and in between the phone calls as she mentioned, I started getting exhausted. I was like, y'all not gonna wear me to death. Like you, it's gonna have to be some kind of balance. And so through that, you know, that challenging time between me and Felicia, when it came to ministering and that, I think it was more so um at one point she left me alone and let me just do what I do. And then that's when I started getting convicted in my heart, like, you know, I can kind of feel my wife now. Like, she's really, you know, I don't want to be an absentee dad in church. I don't want to be a public success and a private failure. I had to start to reevaluate and readjust. And so now we're at the point um in our marriage and ministry, um, if the bills are paid, I'm good. I just came back from a ministry trip um from California. And so my, I wouldn't say debt, but when I came home, she usually takes the kids to school and drop them off, and then they have an after-school program, she picked them up. For the last couple of days since I was gone, I made sure I picked up the kids. I made sure she had something to eat, you know, when she got off of work or something, just to show, like, look, I do appreciate you holding down the fort while I was gone. Because she, you know, she voiced her opinion, and I didn't want her to feel like her voice is unheard in our marriage.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Ah, the unheard voice. It's something I've been thinking a lot about when it comes to partnership. The inability to say how you feel leads to the inability to find compromise. Because if you never say how you feel, how will your needs and desires be satisfied? Unless you're partnered with a mind reader. And I'm guessing you're not. Finding a way to speak your truth in the relationship is so important. And it's also important to hear the other person's truth. It will transform your communication for the better.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

If I'm just coming home from work, I have a strenuous job as well, so strenuous job plus ministry is hard. Um, I call you back and I spend time with them. I'm not an early bird, I'm a night owl. So I'm up late. So I would literally just go to bed and lay in a bed until she falls asleep. I would do my studying, my praying and stuff when she goes to sleep. And then a couple hours later, I'll just sneak back into bed and go to sleep. So the balance is let her know I'm there with her. You got my support. I love you too. These people don't come before you. Like I have to have to continue to reassure her because anything could come in and it's like, well, you got their back more than you got mine. Like that kind of deal. And so I try to just reassure and be present.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Yeah, I mean, that's applicable no matter what job you have. I feel there are some days where I come home and I'm like, am I even looking him in the eye right now? Like really talking about anything? Like, you know, because especially when you're doing something that you do love and it is draining and it does require a lot of you, it can be easy to give the last to the ones that really should be first.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

I spend time with him when he's home. Um, I work around schedules to take care of the kids. Our kids are very active. So we got schedules together. My schedule and I a routine that my kids can function with, him functioning with that same thing. Um, I try not to put any limitations on him because if that is truly what he's called to do, I don't want to get in trouble with God. You know, um, I I just want to let him know that he has my full support when it comes to his calling. He's allowed me to compartmentalize and make schedules and and be able to balance such a heavy weight as being a mom and a wife. And I can't say in the beginning, yes, it was hard, but once I realized that we have we we're in this, like we gotta make this work, we gotta figure this out. For example, there's a lot of people that lose their passion for certain things. If you know you have this passion and this motivation for something, you're gonna stick with it regardless. So I have a passion to be married, I have a passion to raise my kids right, I have a passion to be in fashion, I have a passion to go to work every day. So it it really is just keeping that passion ignited to stay married, to stay involved.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

But you can't always get stuck on the schedule, you gotta shake it up a bit.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Cause you know, you just get so in the routine of life that you forget about who you are. So even though I really wanted my wife to go with me to this trip in California, it was a moment for me to decompress. Like me juggling everything that I juggle job, wife, kids, ministry, people, everything that's happening, just a moment to decompress. I wish my wife can do it because uh she don't like going nowhere by herself, but uh but it it was good. I was able to sleep, I was able to get my mind to focus because running so much sometimes I can't I have to settle my mind, and I had a moment to do so. And so sometimes you do have to get away from that life schedule, and she supported that moment that I needed. She makes it so amazing that if I'm out of town for a couple of days, I can't wait to get home.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Felicia said something here that I think is really crucial to relational success, and that is in order to have thriving relationships, you need to want to make your relationship a success. There will always be bumps in the road or sailing that's not so smooth. But what she's saying, and I agree with, is that it requires a desire to stick with it, figure it out. And say to each other, I'm in this for you. We'll be right back with more of the love department. Proposals on the love department have a history of being eventful. And this one is certainly one of the biggest and most crowded.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

You want the ugly side or you want the clean side?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I want the ugly. This is the love department.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

So the ugly side of it, right, was I did not know to ask her father hand in marriage. I wasn't taught. Nobody told me. Let me back up. We slipped up and got pregnant before we got married. Right? She was pregnant before I even proposed. Um the the blessed thing was before she got pregnant, I already had it in my heart that I wanted to propose to her. And I was so glad. I went to the past her pastor at the time. I went to him first and said, I want to marry her. I just felt like she was the one. She had the vision, I did too. I called her crazy because I didn't want to believe it. But it was just how everything we didn't argue. Like we had we until we got married, but we did not argue not one time in two years. If we had any disagreements, we sat down, we talked about it, and we moved on, and we moved forward. She never judged, never, never criticized from the things that I did not know as a young man. She was there to support me and say, I'm here with you. We're gonna push past this, we're gonna go past this, you'll learn this, it's okay, you know. Um, and so who wouldn't want to have that in your life, right? And so I just made it made it up in my mind, I want to marry her. I told all my friends to show up at this place and do not ask her dad for her hand in marriage. Few people knew, but most people did. I said, yo, come here. I got a major surprise, you know. And then her close friends, I said, um, I said, uh, just be there. Uh I got something for Felicia. I got a nice surprise for her. And I said, okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Felicia, what was going through your head? Because being pregnant, were you worried at all that maybe he was doing it just because of that or felt that pressure that he was talking about?

SPEAKER_03 24:50

I don't believe in my heart that he was doing, doing it just for like because we were pregnant. And we had conversations about like, you know, we don't have to get married just because of the baby. Like, those are like some of the conversations that we have, like, no pressure, like there's no pressure. We can have this baby and then see how it goes, you know, see how we feel afterwards. I wasn't, I don't know if I was just delusional that I didn't know I was gonna get proposed to or what, but it was so many people at this. We did it at um Cadillac and Portsmouth. It's not Cadillac anymore, but it was a karaoke night. Like we, because we do karaokes, karaoke night and everything with our friends, but for some reason the house was packed that day, and it didn't dawn on me that why are like some of my friends here, like why aren't some of my close friends here, right? And so I'm all the way in the back of the like the restaurant, and Frankie called and everybody's cheesing, smiling, and I'm just so clueless. And some of my friends was like, Frankie's calling you to come come up to the front. So I'm thinking we're about to sing a song. So I'm thinking like we're about to get our dream girl selection going.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

You see how you see how our first date was karaoke and our proposal was karaoke.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah, I was like, I peeped how you did that. That was well done, son.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Um, so I'm thinking we about to blow, we about to go up there and sing a song. And I go up there and he's grabs the mic, and he's just like, I just love you so much. And I still am so the I don't know if it was pregnancy brand or what, but he just was telling me how much he loved me, and then he gets on his knee and I freeze for about a minute or two.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

So I was nervous.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

One minute.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

She was like this.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

And I said, Are you gonna answer me? He's like looking around, like, oh my god. So eventually, like, I come to and I say, Yes, I'm gonna marry. I'm gonna marry.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

That place went off. Do you hear me? So we go do all of this. It got it blew up on Facebook. I propose her parents was hot. After that, we go to the, you know, she's about to have the baby, her parents are there. I pull her parents to the side and I said, you know, before my son gets here, this is a touchy subject because I get feel a little emotional. Um before this boy gets here, because if if you know about the whole Christian thing, having a baby at a wetlock, that's already pressuring itself. And we had that, I don't know if she did, but I had that pressure on me, you know, how people viewed me and all that kind of stuff. I mean, if I was in the place that I am in now, I wouldn't care because I God forgive me, and I had a strong support system. But at that moment, before my son had come out, I had pulled them to the side and then said, Listen, I wasn't taught the proper way how to propose. Did not know, had no idea on this is how it's supposed to go. And I said, before we say I do, I want to ask your daughter hand in marriage. He had a little tear come down his face. I don't know if you knew that.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Busy with the baby, she was too busy, you know, get prepared.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And I said it to her mom, and I said I apologize deeply and sincerely and said, I did not know. And I apologize. So I'm asking now if I can have your blessing to marry your daughter. Everybody was all teary-eyed, I was teary-eyed, and a few minutes later, my son comes out.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I like the real story best because you know what? There's a lot of pressure from family, from religions, from society, from friends, even from ourselves, to do this love thing a certain way. And what I think we miss out on is the opportunity to find our own truth, to find truth, really beautiful, messy truth in the day-to-day. And when I asked them about favorite memories, here's what they had to say.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

One of my favorite memories of him. Now we've been going back and forth about our last baby, right? So he was just, I'm not having no more kids, I don't want no more babies, and I'm I I'm not gonna say I pressured him into the last one, but I really wanted another baby because we struggled with our first two kids, right? We went through the motions, we struggled to pay Paul and all types of other stuff. Um, but I told him, I said, I really want to have a baby in this moment in life so I can feel how to raise a child without the struggle. And I said, Can we have a baby? He said no. And for years he said no. But one day he just came up to me and was just like, you want to have a baby? I was just like, Well, it was like at this point, I'm not even ready to have a baby. Like, I just got this job. Like, what do you mean? Like, I gotta put pressure on her.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

I said, listen, you gotta have this baby between this month and this month. If not, we're not having another child. She said, Not right yet. I said, your window is here and here, pick it now. And uh, she said, okay. So she was on birth uh birth control, and I think the same week she got it off of it.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

Yeah, it was crazy. But in that moment, it was just it was amazing because I didn't have to tell him in that moment. I didn't have to ask in that moment. And um, we ended up getting pregnant, and I enjoyed my pregnancy, and we went on our baby moon to Puerto Rico, and it was like the most beautiful, amazing experience that I can say we had as a husband and wife because we didn't have any other kids. It was just me and him spending time together, and it almost it was almost like a rekindling for our relationship. We we were able to talk through some things, we were able to share um conversations that we felt like we didn't have in quite a while, and it was just like an amazing moment. And even though I slept most of it because I was pregnant, it still was it was still an amazing time that we were able to spend together.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

So a favorite memory that I have is when we had decided to go to Louisiana from Virginia, that is a long drive, 16 and a half hours. I wasn't a um uh dream girl fan at all, and she sung the whole album, word for word, at lib, and the whole way, and I was just looking at her like I just had to shrug my shoulders just a little bit, just to dance with her because she was so in tune with the music. That was our very first time going to Louisiana. That was because we have family there, but it was just the experience of just being together. We didn't have kids at that time either, didn't we? No, it was just me and her. And she was just singing and just having a good time. And I mean, she did Eddie Murphy, she she did it all. Do you hear me?

SPEAKER_03 32:27

No, in my former life, I was a dream girl. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

It was just a good time. We had a good time. We were still dating. We're still in the dating phase, and it was just a good time.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I just love the way that they laughed together. And just in case you need it, this is your reminder to have fun. Have fun in your relationship. Push your freedoms, wave your freak flag, get out your silly willies, and just enjoy each other. It doesn't have to be an entire Broadway production, but your love life is like a road trip. Find moments to inject joy in it.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

When I first started sewing, I sewed a the two, no, my outfit for church on Sunday. And I started maybe around 12 o'clock p.m. and didn't finish until 5 o'clock the next day a.m. It was nothing but a shirt and a skirt. But it was like my first outfit I ever made. And Frankie was just like, he sat at the table with me for a little bit and talked to me and was just like, baby, you almost done. I'm like, yeah, I'll be done about an hour. Three hours went by. He's like, baby, are you almost done? I'm like, give me about another hour. About two more hours went by. He's like, well, I don't want to leave you by yourself. So I think it was about two in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

I laid on the couch.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

He laid on the count on the couch and was just like, All right, I'm not gonna leave you out here by yourself, but I'll lay on the couch just so you know that somebody's out here with you. But just knowing, because that's just the type of person he is. He he'll stand by you and be with you and won't let you feel like you're by yourself. Um, that's just something that he's always been, like just the supportive husband. Even with me taking that skirt apart about 10 times. He was just like, just try again. But he he never um told me to like finish tomorrow, or he never was just like, you're not gonna get that right, or you're not gonna get this. He was always supportive and saying, You're gonna get it, babe. I'll give you another hour. You got you got it. Take a break. He's always encouraged me to take breaks, take deep breaths, and all that good stuff. But he stayed with me all that whole night.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

One of the things that was evident during our conversation is that they are unafraid to look at their dark side and come out and show us all the light.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I think being in the position I am now of being a leader in the church, um, I've learned that background and childhood history do play a major part in relationships today. Um, not healing from childhood traumas, um, childhood abandonment, or not having a father in the home. We've had moments in our relationship where we had to really go back and dig deep. Um, I'm gonna share this one one incident. We was on the road, we were driving, and I said something, and she got so defensive towards me, and I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, This is something I can see came from your childhood where you always had to defend because you didn't feel like nobody was in your corner. I'm in your corner, and I want the best, not just for you, but for us. And so I'm not coming to you with a situation to bash you, I'm coming to you with a situation to talk and walk through this thing together. And it was like a light bulb that came on at the moment, and she was like, you know what? It was a past issue and trauma.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

You know what I've learned is that if we can find a way to continue to see the child in each other, it automatically requires you to be compassionate and understanding and to speak lovingly to each other. Um that's something that's been really helpful for me in my partnerships. Another thing that has come up uh relates specifically to a different type of trauma, one that I wanted to touch on in this episode. And personally, as someone who was raised in a similar faith to our guest, I know that the narrative is that it can be complicated to pursue relationships with people outside of that faith. I've witnessed and even spoken to other couples this season where leaders or family members or friends were condemning or took really harsh stances on someone else's personal relationship. Uh-uh. Maybe they didn't like the color of their skin, maybe they thought they should be with someone richer or smarter. Hell, I've had this happen to me. So being that Frankie and Felicia are in their thirties and proclaim their faith, I just wanted us to talk about the role that religion plays in modern relationships. And if you need to tune out for this part of the show, just fast forward to the timestamp in the show notes. I want to bring up a friend of mine. She is dating somebody who is Hindu and she was raised Christian. She got a lot of flack from her friends in the church. You know, saying to her like she shouldn't date him, and in her words, you know, he's been better to her than anybody else who's ever been. Um you know, she treats her with kindness, her family with kindness. And it's more Christ-like. Some of the guys that she's dated in the church. And, you know, if she came to me and said, I'm really struggling with this. Um, what advice would you give me? What would you say to someone who's trying to make it work with someone who doesn't share their faith?

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Disclaimer. This is a very touchy subject for people in that predicament. Because I can give them scripture and then they will give me experience. As you said, this guy's treating her way better than somebody that had posed to be a Christian, right? Somewhere along the line, there will be some kind of unbalance, right? Um, let's say they get married and she wants to go to church and he does not want to go, that can bring a real, you know, unbalance in their relationship because who's to say she's gonna change her faith for him or he's gonna change his faith for her? So my advice is to, as the scripture states, count up all the costs. Will this just because he treats you really good in the best right now, will that change because of your faith? Will your faith change because of that individual? I'm very careful with these conversations because I want to nobody to ever blame me. I lost the best thing I ever had. And it's really, it's really a touchy subject because people are gonna believe what they want to believe because of how they feel and experience. So my advice is to count up the cost. Can you live with a man and not change your religion and he'd not change his and you can live in harmony?

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Yeah, that's good. I think that harmony piece is really a key factor here that determines success in relationships. Can you live in harmony with this person? And when you ask yourself, fill in the blanks of whatever issue that comes to mind. Um is this an issue that you can find harmony with each other on? I think if you can't talk about the big three money, religion, sex with them, then you will likely have an unharmonious relationship. And as always, when you talk, remember to listen. Felicia had an interesting take on this as well.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Even with the marriage aspect, you have to think about because we've had bumps in a row, even when making decisions and traditions for our kids, right? Another pivotal point will be what religion will they follow? Or would you let them follow whatever they want, you know? So it it it can be challenging in a lot of areas. There's certain traditions that certain religions have. Are you willing to follow those traditions if he asks you to? Um, and same for you, or same for that person as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Really think about every aspect. I wouldn't tell nobody ever, don't do it, but I will want them to really think about the decisions because one decision can open up a door for many decisions. Absolutely. My advice again: just count up the cost, think about it, really go through it, have conversation, don't be afraid to talk about it. You know, don't be afraid. You always want to have conversation. Relationships thrive off of open and healthy communication.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

It's so funny. Like, you know, you've heard you hear that so much, right? Oh, communication, that's what makes the word communication, but it really is that. And I think, especially when it comes to like the religion aspect, um, that kind of open communication is it's it becomes an ongoing conversation, you know, that you have. Even I, you know, think about um my partner who's an atheist, very unique and funny in that it was one of the first things we talked about on our dates. The guy before him I had dated was a was like the only thing we had in common was our faith, and it was ugly. And I think because of the timeline, I was at that point where I could say, Yes, I can choose to have these conversations with you. His path is different than mine. And so it's just really interesting because I've I found a lot of people like my friend coming to me and asking me, you know, my advice on it. My take has always been go slow and go with God. If you're going slow, you can't outstep God. He's always gonna be there in the mix somewhere, and you will know if you are with God that you're if you're out of place or you're making wrong choices.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

There's a scripture in the Bible for that though. It says a sanctified wife will sanctify the husband.

unknown 43:13

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 43:14

And there have been many moments and opportunities where there were women that were saved and loved God and married somebody of a different faith or a different lifestyle, and because of their life, they were introduced to Christ.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

As we bring this part of the conversation to the close, one of the things that stood out to me with what Frankie said is that one decision can open the door to many decisions. And I think few decisions are bigger than who you choose to pair up with. This is one decision that can direct your life in a completely uh unexpected direction. And the choice is Is really yours alone to make about whether a relationship with someone who doesn't share your faith is for you, and your answer today might not be your answer a few years down the line. I know mine changed over the years. I'd been in relationships with men who the only thing we had in common was faith, and every other part was out of harmony. And that was just a piece that I couldn't live with. You know, looking back, I can see that if I had made that choice, it would have led to another set of choices and a life that didn't look how I'd hoped. And I'm really glad that the hard conversations that I had with myself, with my parents, some friends, that it's led me here. Because now I have a person and a peace that I cannot live without. We live in a consumer fest, take it or leave it kind of world. Relationally, I think this has left us starved for depth and purpose and meaning. So I asked this 30-something couple who have been together for almost half of their lives, what sustains them in today's society? Frankie's example is a really great look at how being in tune with something higher than yourself, rather that's God, Allah, what have you, can open you to a greater love and empathy for those around you.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Um there was a moment probably I want to say about a couple months ago, four months, five months maybe, where um I felt as if though my wife felt as if, you know, felt as if I was neglecting them to other people. She didn't verbalize that to me. I felt the conviction in my heart saying, you need to get this right because this is how your family is feeling, you know? And so not making it an argument, not making it a problem or issue, just adjust a little. I put this in my phone. I I don't know why it uh why I did it, but now I know. Uh 1 John 4.18, and it reads like this it says, There's no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, right? So if there's any moments in your relationship of fear, there's something that's imperfect about it. And so I that's that's how I believe we've maintained through all these years through the challenges that we face.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Um, I can say that I feel like a lot of contributing factors is lack of endurance and then also carrying certain things that we shouldn't carry, for example, like offense. We've had a lot of couples that have come to us and like verbalize this person did this to me, or my husband did this, or my wife did this, and they're holding that burden on without communicating it properly. So I feel as though a lot of people nowadays don't know how to communicate, like we talked about properly. So they rather just get away from the situation in general and separate it. And I can say verbal like for our personal relationship, there was an offense that I held on to for a very long time. And um, I didn't verbalize it to him.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Pause. And this is big work here that she's talking about. Talking about how you feel, especially if you come from a family or a culture that didn't leave much space for you to express your feelings. Relationships have the power to expose what we feel and believe. But exposure is just the first step. You have to be willing to share, to change, to grow in this life together. And for Felicia, that offense she's talking about was one of the other big three. Finances.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Frankie wasn't very good with finances, right? Like, he never was never he never got taught how to do finances. I was like Frankie, like, we need to get these finances together, and he would spend, right? And I'm looking like, sir, like I'm I didn't live this life. I was, I wasn't, I didn't get it out the mud. I was in the suburbs, my dad provided for us, and and I was like, no, we can't, I can't live, I cannot live like this. So we started butting heads a lot, like a lot. And it got to the point where all we had in common was our kids. Um and it was like, I guess we had built such a routine that we barely kind of saw each other. And we barely talked to each other in those moments. And like I said, I had that offense as well. And it came to the point of- I started getting better.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

I got better, right? And she would not even acknowledge that I got better.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Because I was so used to telling him, like, please do this, and I didn't trust him with me as eventually. I didn't trust him with our family, I didn't trust him with our our kids, I didn't trust him with us. So eventually, if I didn't trust him, I stopped being intimate and I stopped being transparent, and and we just kind of lived as roommates at for a little bit. And then I remember one day I was sitting on the bed and he came in beside me on the bed and he was just like, What are we doing here? Like, at this point, what are we what are we here for? And I was like, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

A few days later, Felicia took another bold first move and apologized.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

And I felt as if though I was trying, and you didn't even give me a chance. And she came to me and she apologized for holding an offense against me. Now I was doing the best I could at this time. I really was. I was working, I was I was paying stuff on time, and um, I was like, yo, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. You we held on to this for so long.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

To him, he I never forget we were in the kitchen, and I said, Can I just talk to you for a minute? I just want to apologize for holding you to an expectation that I knew you couldn't fulfill at the time, and I caged you into this for so long that I could I didn't even let you out. And so it was literally, I said, I'm so sorry for holding on to this. Do you forgive me? Because it was like knocking down the wall that um that I had built up.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

And so she when she apologized, I said, okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

I pour my out in that little poly too.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

I really love the practice of not just apologizing, but asking for forgiveness. It gives the other person a chance to extend grace to you. With all this in practice, uh, Frankie had a really bold proclamation about the state of their union currently.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

I would say that we are in the best years of our marriage.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

What's making this year so good?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Oh, it's so good because we're able to be um, we can communicate, we can talk, we can chat, we can um have fun, we can be serious, we can, if we are in heated moments, we are able to navigate through them. Like we just we just live in harmony, like and we're able to share our hearts, we don't have to hide anything, we can talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

I think it's the freedom, the freedom to be us, right? Um, no longer having to feel like you're restrained, and then we've learned to direct our own path, if that makes sense, like away from what people say, um, what our family says. Um, we've learned how to just be us, if that makes sense. Like there's always just like that love aspect. I learned to recognize who he truly is, and there's a freedom there. Like I can freely tell him whatever, I can freely express myself because back then I don't feel like I could because I didn't trust, I couldn't really freely tell him how I felt. And I can say, even now with other relationships, because how free we are in our relationship, but because I became free in my marriage, it opened up avenues where I was freer in other relationships.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

And in the spirit of freedom, it's time for the final questions before I let these two go. But before I do, I just want to say that I hope that if there is one place on this earth that you can experience this kind of freedom, may it be in your closest relationships to feel that you can freely be who you are and be loved and accepted no matter what. So here we go. What has love taught you?

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Patience. You're gonna read the script, you gonna do the scripture?

SPEAKER_00 53:31

I'm not gonna do the scripture. I'm not gonna do the scripture. Love is kind love is a choice and not an emotional feeling. Right? So I've chose this marriage, I've chose to be committed, I chose to be disciplined, I've chose to stick through hard times and stay with the good times. I've chose to be a support, right? It it taught me that love is a choice and not just a feeling.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

I think love is extending God's grace. Um I love you be I I extend grace because I love you.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

What do you love about the other person? Frankie, what do you love about Felicia? And Felicia, what do you love about Frank?

SPEAKER_00 54:21

I love her mind. I love the way she thinks, I love the way she maneuvers, I love the creativity. Her mind, yeah. And this is for this is even for my save folk that's only gonna hear this podcast. Her mind is sexy to me. Yeah, she's beautiful, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. But your mind is your mind for me.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Do you hear this all the time? Because I always text it to you. I say my husband is the most genuine person. When I say I look at him as an example, I tell him all the time that the reason I am the way I am today is because of him. I'm like, I don't know why I feel like I'm about to cry. The little tinder spot the little tinder spot, a little tinder spot right there. But I'm better because of the love and the genuineness that he gave to me. So no matter what I can do, what I can say, it's him. This that's what he gives me.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

If this were the last time that you guys had a chance to talk to each other, say for whatever reason, you know, gotta walk out of this room, hang up this call, and you have to part ways. What is it that you would want the other person to know?

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Wow, I'm stomped. You go first this time.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

What would I want you to know? I would want you to know that um I genuinely love you. Like without strings attached, without motive, without um thought. Like my being loves you. Like, I can't see myself without you. I can't see this life without you.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Put in John Legend, ordinary people on this planet.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

Cuta, cuta.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Cuta music, so you know that's me singing to you every day. No, I would tell you that I love you, I genuinely love you, and I know in this world that nobody will love me like you do. I know that. I don't have no doubt in my mind, I will never find anybody like you. Thank you for opening up our platform, allowing us to share our story, our dark moments, our light moments.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

The way you guys look at each other, it's just, it's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

You've been listening to The Love Department, hosted by Nick Lockhart. The Love Department is produced in Brooklyn, New York. A special thank you to Frankie and Felicia for allowing us to interview them for today's episode. Special thanks also to producer Karen Minto and Sound Engineer Bree Seely. Our theme song is Love by Adam Baldick. And please stay in touch with us. You can reach out to the show on the Heartline by visiting our website at www.love-department.com. For exclusive written content, please subscribe to our Substack for just $5 a month. Last week I wrote about what it really means to be in a relationship that is multi intersectional. And while you're here, leave us a review and subscribe to the podcast. Okay. Hand to heart for the fore count. I wish you love.