%20(1100%20x%201100%20px)%20(500%20x%20500%20px)%20(Podcast%20Cover)-2.png)
The HEAVEN ON EARTH Podcast: A Portal to Possibility
What Heaven on Earth Means to Me...
For me, heaven on earth is a life experience that pulses with harmony, leading from the heart while engaging the mind, body, and spirit. It's a journey marked by intention and interwoven with ever-increasing moments of mindfulness. This experience is grounded in a commitment to maintain a tranquil central nervous system and a dedication to nurturing bonds of adult secure attachment through mutual care and respect. And, as we ascend to higher consciousness, it's a sensuous love affair with the dynamic life we're living right now, on this earthly voyage.
Welcome to the Heaven on Earth Podcast!
In this podcast, we explore how dynamic individuals from diverse backgrounds are enriching their lives and contributing to a world filled with more healing, intimacy, and innovative solutions. The podcast is meant as a self-loving, non-hierarchical space where everyone is a protagonist, and where your unique perspective matters.
Thank you for joining us on this unique portal to possibility.
The HEAVEN ON EARTH Podcast: A Portal to Possibility
The World Is On Fire—Here’s How We Breathe Through It
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
How do we find peace when the world feels like it's burning around us? In this deeply moving conversation, psychotherapist Claudia Catarucci welcomes her longtime friend and Buddhist meditation teacher Luisa Montero-Diaz to explore one of life's essential paradoxes: maintaining inner calm while engaging meaningfully with a turbulent world.
Drawing from over 35 years of meditation practice, Montero-Diaz offers a perspective both ancient and radical - that life's path has always been uneven, but we can learn to walk it evenly. This isn't about spiritual bypassing or ignoring suffering, but rather developing the capacity to respond with wisdom rather than reaction. The conversation takes us through the concept of the "sacred pause" - that vital moment of awareness before action that transforms how we engage with everything from personal triggers to global crises.
The friends explore powerful metaphors including Wendell Berry's poem about planting seeds while the world burns, and the lotus flower whose roots grow in mud yet blossoms beautifully above water. Through personal stories, practical guidance, and the warmth of authentic friendship, they illuminate how sustained spiritual practice gradually raises our baseline wellbeing and shortens our recovery time from emotional difficulties.
Perhaps most powerfully, they reveal that at the bottom of all our emotional layers - beneath shame, fear, and anger - lies love itself. Heaven on Earth isn't about escaping life's challenges but bringing a quality of loving presence to them. As Montero-Diaz beautifully summarizes: heaven on earth is "relating heavenly to earthly things."
Ready to find more stability in chaotic times? Listen now, and discover how your spiritual practice can become an anchor not just for yourself, but for our world in need of healing.
Luisa Montero Diaz is a pioneer of the Washington Insight Meditation Community and a lead mentor in Tara Brach and Jack Kornfield’s two-year Mindfulness Meditation Teacher Certification Program.
LUISA’S FREE MINDFULNESS PROGRAM (IN SPANISH)
✨ Atención Plena para Reducir el Estrés
A Free 6-Week Virtual Mindfulness Series in Spanish
🗓 Wednesdays at 6PM EST | June 4 – July 9
🌐 On Zoom | Open to Spanish-speaking migrants
No experience needed—just bring your breath.
📌 Zoom Registration:
https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/An65PlmNTyyaccVw819DcA#/registration
📅 Full details available on the CML calendar
https://tockify.com/cmldc/agenda?tags=Espanol&search=espanol
📧 Questions?Contact Luisa Montero at luisa.montero55@gmail.com
🔔 Subscribe, like, and share to spread the medicine.
#HeavenOnEarthPodcast #LuisaMonteroDiaz #WashingtonInsightMeditation #MindfulnessForMigrants #MindfulnessInSpanish #AtencionPlena #FreeMindfulnessProgram #TaraBrachMentor #JackKornfieldTeacher #TraumaInformedMeditation #EmotionalHealing #NervousSystemRegulation #SelfLoveAsLiberation #CommunityHealing #LatinxMindfulness #MeditationForEveryone #MindfulnessTools #BilingualHealing #MeditacionEnEspanol #SpiritualGrounding #PodcastForHealers #radicalacceptance #tarabrach
#empathleader #meditation #meditacion
Introduction to Heaven on Earth
Speaker 1Welcome to the Heaven on Earth podcast , a world where you study the story you were born into and redesign it into the story you choose . A world where you can have Heaven on Earth right here , right now , no matter the past . For me , heaven on Earth is a holistic experience , leading with the heart , engaging with mind , body and spirit . It's mindful , fostering calm and secure attachments as we rise into consciousness . It's an earthly journey where we sensually embrace dynamic living . Hello everyone and welcome to the Heaven on Earth podcast . This is going to be a special so special in so many ways podcast for me because of who I have in front of me Luisa Montero Diaz , a friend , a love story , a friendship that has lasted decades . But first , before I introduce Luisa , I'm going to say a little bit about the podcast . I'm Claudia Catarucci . I am the host . I am a psychotherapist here in Washington DC for 25 years . I'm Claudia Cattarucci . I am the host . I am a psychotherapist here in Washington DC for 25 years . I'm the creator of the Dynamic Re-Evolution Curriculum , I'm an empath leader and I'm a heaven on earth coach , and we're life traveling together , and one of the points I always make on this podcast is that this is not a religious podcast , even though it sounds like one , but we do like talking about the unseen and the sacred and how we live our lives in a heaven on earth way , and what that means to me is that we learn how to trauma rise , that we're not living in constant survival because we've healed and we know that when we heal ourselves , we heal the planet . It ripples out . So we live from a calm central nervous system . We're going to talk a lot about that today how to be in our bodies , how to feel embodied and how to form and maintain secure attachments . So it is psycho-spiritual what we talk about here and the way that I like to do it and , luisa , you and I talked about this is we put a topic on the table and we approach it from multiple angles . So let me jump right in .
Speaker 1Welcome Luisa Montero-Diaz . And we have a love story and a friendship story , because Luisa and I have known each other since the 90s through different iterations . When I first met Luisa , I had just moved back from Guatemala and Luisa was my boss and Luisa was my boss and it was amazing . We were such amazing workers together . But really what began to happen was our conversations , and our conversations healing and deeper meaning right , luisa , and deeper meaning in life , and really it has been the constant thread that has kept us together , even though we both have taken different paths . Since that first international consulting firm that we were both a part of . My career took a real pivot when I became a clinical psychotherapist . But throughout it all , what has woven us together has been this commitment to the inner journey and how to live here on planet earth .
Speaker 1So let me say a few things about you . I know I'm talking a lot , but I'm going to . I have to introduce what a powerhouse I have in front of me , even though she's very quiet about it . So Louisa has been practicing I'm going to read a little bit practicing and teaching insight meditation for the last 35 years , and I would say you've been a meditator for longer than that probably , louisa , but you can say it when I pass the baton and she received training for this from Spirit Rock Meditation Center so for some of you that are watching also part of the Bar Center for Buddhist Studies , and she currently is part of the Insight Meditation community of Washington . Since its beginning , louisa was one of the first people , one of the pioneers of it and working with Jack Kornfield and people like Tara Brock and Tara Brock goes all the way . I remember having dinner with her years ago at your home and just feeling like such a fangirl because she signed my book . But this was so many years ago . Louisa is one of the teachers and lead teachers in Jack Kornfield's and Tara Brock's Mindful Meditation Teacher Certification Program and you mentor people through there . You can see a little bit more . So part of what happens is meditation classes , day-long retreats , residential retreats in the DC area . So please look those up everyone the Mindful Meditation Teachers Certification Program .
Speaker 1Luisa is Cuban , her family were Cuban and came to the United States and her roots are with Southern Baptist Church and this is important because it shows how our path can take us and where we are from , and she has explored the fourth way and Buddhist teachings . So that's an interesting combination , isn't it ? Your Buddhist roots and your Buddhist personality today . So Luisa has also been a part of just really exploring the interface between spiritual traditions . In her day-to-day world , luisa has spent I don't know Lou like 40 years . She was a Peace Corps volunteer and then came to the DC area and has been a leader in international development consulting firms , but also a part of nonprofits that work with immigrant communities , the last one being the Latin American Youth Center . Is that correct ?
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , the director of that . She's retired today , but still super active . Lisa , it's an honor . It's an honor to walk this path with you and to have you here , because you're really one of the people I go to for spiritual guidance and for your wisdom .
Speaker 2Yeah , thank you , claudia . I mean this is such a treat . I mean we've talked about , you know about doing this , and then here we are , thank you , wow , you make me sound so big and , you know , significant , and I feel like I've sort of , in my part of the world , maybe have made a difference . But anyway , yeah , that's- .
Speaker 1Oh , you have made a difference .
Speaker 1I feel like if I don't do this , if I don't put a spotlight on you , you would never do it .
Speaker 1But yeah , you're a pretty heavy hitter in terms of the spiritual community , but also in terms of the work that you've done as a global citizen for immigrants and when we were working together certainly for people overseas like you really , really have been committed to having your work be part of the way that you've reached for your own life bliss , as Joseph Campbell would say . Luisa and I meet probably once every six weeks . We go to our favorite diner and make sure we have about two hours to talk about everything , and we always connect spiritually . And one of the things that in our last breakfast came up was this idea of and maybe you can talk about more in Buddhist language this idea of how we allow what is happening around us and inside of us when times feel uncertain , turbulent , emotional , where we don't have something to grab onto , that sometimes could make us feel safe . So and I said immediately , we have to do this podcast right now , in the middle of 2025 .
Speaker 1So I'm going to pass the baton to you .
Speaker 2Yeah , thank you . Thank you so much , claudia . And before we start that , I also must say that I have been so inspired by your work and I just feel like you're one of those people that have this really courageous heart , you know , because you're willing to take risks , you're willing to really put yourself out there and not only for yourself or for others , and so it's been . It's been so gratifying , particularly these last few years , to see sort of all of your efforts and work and that , you know , through the years , come to fruition where you're really yeah , where you're really helping and serving others . So , anyway , I just want to say that , because it's been , we have watched each other through the years , ups and downs and through so many things , and it's just really gratifying to be here now and see . So , thank you , thank you for so much for having me .
Speaker 1Thank you so so much .
Speaker 2Thank you so so much , yeah , you know , I think our conversation at that last breakfast was probably one that isn't uncommon these days .
Speaker 2I think so many people , particularly empaths and people just in general , are trying to , you know , figure out how do we live in this world that seems , you know , so chaotic , so fraught with so many things , and we could list them . We won't do that , but there's just so many things that we're faced with these days , and I think many , many of us are are are challenged by how do we respond to the world's suffering and to the and to the world's situation while at the same time not losing ourselves and staying grounded and taking care of ourselves , and so I think that was where our conversation was kind of going . You know , this , this , this balance between being in the world and accepting things as they are and then acting in the world in a way to change and to maybe influence those things that that we know are causing harm ,
Meeting Luisa: A Decades-Long Friendship
Speaker 2are causing harm . So it's just interesting , you know , when we look at different spiritual traditions and what I know best is Buddhism , because that's where I've spent most of my time and my spiritual practice these last , you know , several decades but that the Buddha , 2600 years ago , you know , talked about , specifically talked about this that life in this world is an uneven path .
Speaker 2Even sort of the translation is that he said this world is an uneven path , and so what we're constantly challenged to do is to walk evenly in this world . That really is an uneven path and that's , you know , the tools that we have , that we use , not not only meditation , but so many other tools that we use and that have been brought down through the generations and that are also being recreated today , I think , is what's helping us to walk this path evenly , despite the fact that things are uneven and that life is , you know , is very uneven and uncertain . So so that's the challenge that we have for ourselves in the world that you know , how do we , how do we deal with what's going on today ? Not by struggling or fighting or opposing it , but really by interacting with it , relating to it honestly and openly and trusting , you know , in some way . So , yeah , that's . I think that's such an important topic .
Speaker 1It is , it is and it's actually . You know this is going to sound a bit dramatic , but I feel like it's radical . I do feel like it's a radical choice and I'd like us to get more into the details , with some examples , so that folks who are watching the podcast can really utilize maybe some tools or some steps . But the way that I see it as radical is because it's so counterintuitive . Radical is because it's so counterintuitive . Right , it really feels like we've got . We've got to .
Speaker 1Just , we have these urges , these emotions , these impulses and we want to just move into action , do something . And it doesn't mean I don't , what I don't hear you saying is it doesn't mean that we don't move into action . It means that there's what I call the sacred pause of some sort . It sort Is this what you're saying ? Which is radical ? Which is radical ? Luisa , I've been doing this series and now you're going to be a part of this series of . I feel , how we're entering into the era of emotions , of how to not just have this operating system of emotions . That really is what gets us most tied up . But how do we take these pauses , use these tools and be more discerning about how we're living our external world , and I think this ties right into what you're saying .
Speaker 2Yes , yeah , yeah , absolutely . Actually , if you'll indulge me , I'll read this little poem that I ran across , which I think you know , sometimes poetry gets to the heart of things in a way that you know many , many words can't . But , claudia , as you were just talking , it's like this this is , it's radical and it's's in a way , it's simple . So this , I think this point , sort of speaks to that . So it was written by Wendell Berry and , interestingly enough , it was written 1968 . He wrote and he's an essayist and a novelist and , you know , a farmer , and he's just , he's , he's 90 years old , I think , today , you know these days , but he's been around a long time , a poet and an environmentalist . But in 1968 , at the height of the Vietnam War , right when life in certain ways was pretty chaotic , he wrote this point .
Speaker 1Let's just talk like two seconds on 1968 . 1968 , people believed that the world was burning . Really , there were deaths on college campuses , the protests of all , the assassinations of prominent people . It really felt like what is happening to morality right ? It was a moment where it felt like the world was burning and there were so many changes going on . So let's drop us into that zeitgeist , right , yeah .
Speaker 2Right , yeah , exactly Exactly so . With that context , wendell Berry wrote this . He says in the dark of the moon , in flying snow , in the dead of winter , war spreading , families dying , the world in danger , I walk the rocky hillside sewing clover . What I love about this point ? What I love because it's a paradox . It's like there's this paradox while the world is on fire , the world is being unmade , it's's in danger .
Speaker 2The poem says there's this simple sower that just walks this rocky hillside , you know , sowing clover . And it's sort of like I can anyway kind of intuit this determination of this simple sower . Right , that is , you know , set against all the world's tribulation . This sower is planting , is creating , is healing , is walking , is noticing . And it doesn't mean that the sower is ignorant or blind to the trials and tribulations of the world . There's a sense that you know the sower is right in the world . But to me it just demonstrates this ability , this capacity that we have , you know , as human beings , to be in the world and to see it suffering , and to act when needed , while at the same time walking calmly you know , walking calmly and sowing these seeds . So to me that really is sort of the you know , it's bringing heaven to our incarnation on earth . You know , it's like walking , it's like an attitude of heavenness on the earthly plane , right ? So anyway , that poem really struck me . I read it after our breakfast conversation . I thought , oh , this really gets to the heart of it , you know .
Speaker 1Yeah , you're just blowing my mind right now . So let me , and sometimes I will write because I just want to track , okay , so , just so you know . So hold on please . Of course you're touching on the idea of heaven on earth . Okay , so I want us to riff , I want us to .
Speaker 1It's like two musicians who just start to , because part of it I'm not even sure if this exists , louisa , but I have this image of my favorite Buddha . The image of my favorite Buddha is one hand towards the sky and the other touching the earth . Does that actually exist ? I might've seen it somewhere , but if not , like that's how I , I , I , I see him in Lotus position , one hand towards the sky , one hand touching the earth . Which is what I mean by heaven on earth is that we're reaching .
Speaker 1We're reaching , we're taking notice of the treasure of the heavenly moments around us , mindfully , but we're on earth , we're touching , we're grounding , we are here , and sometimes being here means the chaos . So that's one thing that you said the yin yang , which is what you're describing , right , like chop wood , carry water , like move slowly amidst these fast times , move gently , move slowly , and it's counterintuitive and I want to propose that it's the antidote . But before I say that , lisa , there's something about and can you talk about this more ? I keep saying on this podcast that we're not emotionally or spiritually bypassing anything .
Navigating Life's Uneven Path
Speaker 2Yeah , go ahead , go ahead . Yeah , that you mean go ahead go ahead .
Speaker 1What you mean we're not bypassing when we take the time to , to that we are witnessing what is happening , that we have trauma on planet earth and inside of us , that there is sex trafficking and exploitation of the planet and of children and of animals , that that there is a type of dominance that is exploitative . We are not spiritually or emotionally bypassing what's happening . It's not Pollyanna , and I think the poem really , really , really speaks to that . Can you say ?
Speaker 2a little bit more about what this touches in you , yeah yeah , this is a bit the conundrum you know of of of what we're talking about and really you know walking this path and you know , actually I'm I'm also reading this book right now , richard Rohr , I think you know I love him and it's actually about the Old Testament prophets and how the prophets initially came into . Basically , they came in when the prophets sort of came up and their purpose was to point out injustices , even in the spiritual sort of realm , even in the religious realm , at the point out injustices and when things were not going right and when people were going further and further away from the truth of the teachings , right and um and it all . They always sort of started with , almost initiated by anger and just the sense of just being justified , righteousness . But their paths and Richard Rohr , I haven't , I've just started the book you you know talks about each one of these that their trajectory was to end up in love . You know that they eventually , so almost all of them , all these major prophets in the in the Bible , had this journey where they started with this like this has got to change and there's injustices and oppression and this and that and this and that , and then ultimately they came to sort of do their work and point and continue to do the work , the hard work that they , that they , they were , you know meant to do , but with a sense of love and a connection . And so it's .
Speaker 2You know , again , I think that I think Richard Rohr is writing that book . It just came out specifically because of the times that we're in . Again , what we're talking about is the sense of it doesn't , it's not bypassing , when you take time to heal yourself and to connect with what matters , with what's significant and what matters to you , and then we're better able to act from that . It doesn't mean that you stay there , you know that you stay in the cave , you know , gazing at your navel . It means that you bring that , that calm , that lightness , that quietness , that perhaps truth even , that you're better able to see because you've sloughed off all of sort of the distractions and come into silence . And then , and then that's what we walk around and that's what we , you know , we use as a foundation to really act .
Speaker 1Perhaps I always , you know , say in a more appropriate , wise way , perhaps I mean you're reminding me of Malcolm X's journey where , where it did sort of take off with rage and injustice and and a deep , profound urge that empaths have , I mean in my book the Empath Leader . Yeah , I'm going to plug it coming out in .
Speaker 1July . Yes , the second edition , really excited about that . But I talk a lot about like that . The one way to see an empath really rage or come out with lightning bolts is in the face of injustice . Like that's really . They might take all sorts of stuff when it comes to themselves , their tolerance levels or , as I say , they'll miss their exits for a long time , long time . But when they see an injustice , when they see bullying , the empath is the one who is just going to speak out or call out the elephant in the room . And I believe Malcolm X was an incredible empath , but his journey was that he ended up in pilgrimage and saw that there were people from all over the world following the same path and he ended up speaking of love and of feeling connected . This great connection , luisa can you say a ?
Speaker 1little bit more about rage , about anger , especially from a Buddhist point of view , about anger especially from a Buddhist point of view , but also just from your point of view , because it is a catalyst , it can serve rage can serve even Gandhi . Rage can serve as a fuel , especially when it comes to injustice .
Speaker 2Can you say something about that ? Yeah , no , and that's so important because I think we can also fall into the trap of saying and that's so important because I think we can also fall into the trap of saying , oh , you know , being a Buddhist and being spiritual and , you know , is all about not expressing our anger or not having anger . And that's not the case at all . I actually , like Ruth King , who's a wonderful meditation teacher , says you know , anger is initiatory , is just not transformative , and so , you know , I love that , because anger can initiate us into action . Or even if not action , anger can kind of bring to full relief something that we might have ignored or neglected . But if we stay there , if we stay in the anger and if we're using the anger then as a basis of our action , that's when , according , you know , to the Buddhist , to the Buddha , you're just creating more suffering .
Speaker 2You know violence never leads to less violence . You know hatred never ceases by hatred at all , only through love . You know , is hatred . That's . That's a very , you know , popular , famous line from the Buddha . So , yeah , I think there is a place for it and we need to be careful also , and I know for myself , because I'm angry avoidance . I don't like to be angry and it's been hard to express my anger and learn how to express it in a wise way . That it is not about saying oh that's bad , you know , let's put that over here , let's repress it , let's not . You know , talk about it it really . It's a human emotion , just like so many , and I think the more we bring those things to light , better you know , we're able to see them and then and then put them in their place . They have a place , it's you know they have a place .
Speaker 1Say more about that , like having a place , and I want to have it as a backdrop to your answer . This idea that you know what I've been talking about is that we do come with this emotional operating system and that our emotions , our teachers , our messengers , they're saying something , including depression , anxiety , rage .
Speaker 2I just said that for the empath . By the time , an empath is raging .
Speaker 1They've passed many exits , so they need to listen . They don't have to judge themselves because empaths like you , you feel really bad if they're angry , if they're raging . And yet there's a , there's a type of fire that's trying to get our attention . Like , what is the message in our rage ? What is it asking us to do ? So ? This idea that it's an initiator , I love it , but maybe , like in any emotion , is this what you're saying , lisa , that getting stuck in any emotion is a very tricky thing ?
Speaker 2There's an attachment there . Yeah , yeah , yeah of mindfulness are , I think , are just so helpful . Because there it's , it's , it's the sense of like nothing that arises , nothing that arises in our meditation , nothing that arises sort of in our life is a failure or is wrong in some way , but the , the , the , the important part of it is when we allow it and pay attention to it . It's when we're not sort of paying attention and this is where mindfulness comes in it's when we're not paying attention to it that it can then wreak havoc . You know , we're not aware of it . It has a life of its own . It's like , you know , being pulled into something with no spaciousness and no , with basically just constriction . Right , but if something or everything that arises is , so it can go rogue .
Speaker 2It can go rogue when we're not mindful , right , and of course we can't be mindful 100 percent of the time either . So I don't want to , you know , convey the idea that this is something you know , you're always going to be able to catch it before it goes rogue . We're humans , we're not perfect , you know . So part of it is catching it as soon as we can and practicing so that we catch it earlier and earlier , right in its trajectory . Because when we're , when we allow for it and give space to anything sadness , anger , fear you know all the emotions that we have , even distraction itself , you know . When we give attention to it , make a space big enough for it , then it's just something happening in the field of many things happening . It's when we collapse around a particular emotion that I think we can get caught , and it can and and cause harm to ourselves and maybe others too .
Speaker 1Collapse into it , right yeah .
Speaker 2Collapse . Yeah , that's right . I mean , I know that's happened to me . You know before where I've just like I become that thing that whatever it is anger or or frustration , or sense of disconnection or victim , you know victimhood , or I collapse around that and and then that's what I become . There's no room for anything else . But with practice I can soften , you know , open that up a bit . Oh , I don't have to push it away , it's still here , I can still see it and feel it , but it's not consuming me . Yeah , and that really is , I think , the fruit of practice and the promise is that we can , little by little . Doesn't happen overnight and it's a lifelong process , perhaps many lifetimes of a process , but getting closer and closer to this ability to yeah . Okay , that's there , it's okay .
Speaker 1Lisa , you're reminding me and I talk about him a lot , and I talk about the idea of Carl Jung's shadow , because that is sort of our emotions going , our shame , our embarrassment , what we closet , emotions that we closet , and I always say , you know , these emotions will ambush us , they lurk , they stalk us , they're going to find us and as a psychotherapist I always say which is really just a loving approach to it because people are so terrified to go into the shadow , to look at the shadow , to give the shadow space .
Speaker 1And we don't blame anyone because some of our shadows are right Our trauma , our sexual abuse , our addictions . But if we , you know , like everything else , when we give it loving attention , when we give a child loving attention , there is a way that things calm down . And maybe that's part of one of the subtexts to what we're talking about . If we can look at the world even with loving attention , with mindfulness , how do we shift our gaze into looking with loving attention ? Because once we befriend what I call befriend the shadow , then they're not amputations that are out there creating havoc right .
Speaker 1Right around the corner , waiting to collapse on our life , not just collapse inside of us . Lisa , can you say some more about giving it space , because there might be some people watching us going like what ? What does that even mean to give my rage my jealousy , my envy , my disgust , like some hard emotions . How do we give it space ?
The Radical Choice of Sacred Pause
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , that's a great question , you know , I think the actual skillful means , you know the tools to doing that , are varied and can be different for different people in terms of the actual tools that you use . For some people , you know , going on meditation retreats , you know , going on intensive sort of retreats where they can really unplug and just really it's a sacred pause that's maybe several days long and and and really sit with . That is a way to do it . For some people , other people , that's just not possible . You know you have young kids or you have a work . You know work , your job , that you can't leave , etc . So I think it looks differently . But but I I think at the end of the day , it really , you know , has to start with an intention or a commitment that this is important to you . You know , to ask yourself what's most important , what really matters , and to continually ask yourself that question . That , you know , then leads you to exploring what will work for you . You know what will work for you and I just think you know that's why we call this whole path of practice , because it's like learning to do anything new the piano or sports , it's just practice .
Speaker 2You keep coming back and you keep coming back and there's so many things that help , I think , community . You know Sangha , the Buddha talked about the importance of community and noble friendship . You know , so who you surround yourself with , and having a community of people like minded or that are supporting you in your practice , that you can relate to and that you can speak these things to , that is like almost these days . I think even more important than a teacher is the importance of community . You know , spiritual community , beloved community , like Martin Luther King Jr talked about same thing , beloved community . So . And then there's , like you know , these podcasts and your books and other books and inspirational readings and poetry I mean , I use poetry a lot now nowadays and just things that inspire you , nature , being out in nature , yeah , those are the things that sort of nurture us and nourish us and maybe inspire us to then make some efforts , because this , you know , this path is not , it is a rocky hillside . You know it's rocky , it's not , it's not sort of an ambi-pambi kind of path that we're on .
Speaker 1It isn't . I keep repeating in the book this isn't for the meek .
Speaker 1I always say have you tried to self-love ? Have you ever self-love ? It is hard to self-love Like . Have you really tried to self-love ? Have you tried to have compassion for the self ? I mean , it is so cringy , it is so hard . Have you tried looking in the mirror ? When I say , like , do some mirror work , you will see , sit with these hard emotions . This is not for the meek . In fact , I think it is why we run from it . We run from this practice and I guess to underscore the need for community , and community can be 12-step groups , it could be support groups , it could be other folks who are on whatever path of the inner journey , whether it's to heal an addiction or to reach for God , if that's your path .
Speaker 1Absolutely what would you say you've mentored so many people , you've taught so many classes . Um , and , and you know , tara talks about this in her book radical acceptance and she keeps beating the drum to it is . What would you say to folks who say are you kidding me ? Sitting sitting because going to a meditation retreat still feels like an action , but the actual sitting , mindfully with what is arising , mindfully with what is arising ?
Speaker 2what do you say to folks who are like , oh my gosh , this is so hard . What would you say ? Yeah , yeah , and , by the way , it is well not . By the way , even it is hard , it is hard . And so I think , when , sometimes , when people try to approach this and just find it so difficult , they think that they're sort of unusual , that that's atypical .
Speaker 2But you know , I want to normalize this the challenge of sitting still with yourself and also the process of self-love . Right , it's , it's , it's . It's not an easy thing to do . Again , I sort of fall back on you . It's almost , it's almost . It's very difficult to do it alone . And so I know that nowadays there's a lot of resources out there , you know , online , in person as well , but a lot of resources online . So , you know , I encourage people to just use whatever they you know resonates with them to help them . They can do guided meditations , you know they . There's a lot out there . There's wonderful Dharma talks , there's opportunities like this to plug into people having these conversations and being a part of it .
Speaker 2So I just think it really , it really takes a village , almost it takes . It takes a lot to sort of . You know , if someone were just going to say to me I'm not going to . I'm just . I just want to sit in my room and learn how to meditate by myself . That's tough , some people can do that , but it's really hard and to remember that there's different forms of meditation , forms of meditation . So if sitting still in a dark room or in a low-lighted room is not your cup of tea , then go for a walk in nature , but do it slowly and mindfully . Notice the sensations of your feet on the ground and the breeze , but do it slowly , not your usual getting from A to Z , you know , or A to B Slow down . Nature for some people it's sitting looking out a window with a cup of tea and listening to the birds , or being by a , you know , a waterfall , reading , I think , an inspirational book and then pausing throughout . That you know that as you read it and really reflect on it . Yeah , I think there are many classes , you know also , at the end of the day , you know , one of the things that that and again , I've practiced for a long time .
Speaker 2It's still difficult to bring it to my daily life . Right , you know I can sit in meditation , you know , for 30 , 45 minutes and then , you know , have go out into the world and something will trigger me , but it's to also continually be asking yourself throughout the day you know , pausing that , that pause throughout the day , just oh , come into your body , drop . We don't live in our bodies . So just even dropping into the bodies and noticing what we notice , asking ourselves you know what's happening right now ? What's happening right now and how can I be with it ? Those two questions you know what's happening right now and how can I be with it ? You know , for just 30 seconds , if we can do that a few times a day , I think it really does . I think you know not to underestimate his power , just do those few minutes .
Speaker 1I just heard someone I don't remember he's someone well known , but I don't know him say to ask this is just what I'm feeling right now . The right now really helps . It's just what I'm feeling right now Like it helps , like this isn't forever . And the reason why I created dynamic meditation , Louisa , was because I was even though I was sitting in the mornings , I was still getting triggered quite a bit throughout the days . When I met you in the nineties is when I started .
Speaker 1Really , this path , this super healing path , is , is the time that we work together . But because I work with people with complex post-trauma and ADHD and high anxiety , general anxiety I don't want to call it disorder , but just that that's the way they're living life . So , having tools to drop into while it's happening , while you're in the boardroom , while you're at the happy hour , while you're on the train , while your boyfriend is away , while you're in the dating pool how do we make it portable and practical is exactly what dynamic meditation is about . But let me , let me just bring it all together and for a second here . There's something about what you described Like and I think the Buddhists call it walking meditations . This moving slowly , this noticing , reading , reflecting , is for me these , how you thread heaven on earth .
Speaker 1And it takes us back . It's like , how do we keep threading moments ? Let's say , we have one moment of walking and experiencing nature and then we have this chaotic life , and then we sit in the morning or we hear a song that drops us into peacefulness . How do we start to create , thread more and more moments like when we meet for breakfast , right ? Like when we meet for breakfast right , heaven on earth , moments when we're walking , when we're with our fur animals ? How do we keep threading them in the midst of what we're feeling ?
Speaker 2in the planet , which takes us back to your poem yeah , To say we're going while this is happening but go ahead yeah that while this is happening .
Speaker 2But go ahead . Yeah , that that is the challenge . But you know , even even having the question is like it is is like a great step , and I think you know anyone who is listening to this and has joined you in the past
Giving Space to Difficult Emotions
Speaker 2and is here listening has already sort of taken , in a way , that that step . Though I agree with you and thank you for for bringing that up because , um , it , it's , it's hard enough as it is . And then there are some of us who who have additional obstacles , you know , in a sense of our , our upbringing or illnesses or our life situations that make it even harder , you know , to to find moments of calm . So , but the fact that you know people have asked that question and that they have that intention and there's something in them that sort of urging them , I think is huge . And to honor that is to really honor that , to say , wow , you know this is to really recognize that , to love the fact that there's been this impulse in you to , you know , to ask the question .
Speaker 2And then this is a journey . It is a long journey , as you know . There's just no , there's no overnight , you know , doing this there's no real , you know , cookie cutter . It's an exploration . It's constantly asking yourself what is needed right now , what do I need , what is needed , what is what is possible , you know , for me in this moment , and and the self love is huge , because I think we're just such , we in this culture in particular , we're so down on ourselves . You know the inner critic of course has been a lot written and said about that and the constant judging , and , and you know , the Buddha gave practices to sort of mitigate some of that the metta practice , the loving , kindness practice , which is a formal way to slowly open your heart to yourself , to others as well . But sometimes ourselves is the hardest one to give love to right , as you said earlier .
Speaker 2Yes , so we do weave together . You know moments , claudia . I think some days are easier than others , but I think you know the foundation of being able to weave moments during the day , even though you know more may be needed , is sort of a regular , as much as possible , having a regular time where you go into silence or quietness , a regular time where you go into silence or quietness , or , and it doesn't it doesn't have to be this ideal , you know , of even 30 , 40 minutes an hour . It can be five minutes , just a little bit of time where you really come in and into yourself and and ask that question what really matters to me ? What really matters so it's um , and then it grows , you know , over time it takes , takes a bit , and doing all the other things that people need to do to take care of themselves , therapy and healing modalities , and 12 step , and you know all of that . It doesn't this doesn't preclude any of that . It's all part of the journey .
Speaker 1Yes , yes , yes , I always say that meditation the way I teach it , because people are like but I'm Muslim or I'm ADHD or , and I'm always like . You know , listen , meditation is like tofu . Just just add it to whatever it is that you're doing to self heal , to self reflect , it'll take on that flavor , like really it can be added to any tradition , any modality . It truly is part of our day-to-day , just sort of sparkle in terms of it's so ephemeral but it is foundational . And I guess what I want to say a little bit to the audience and I'm not sure where you land on this is what I have found , being a survivor of complex post-trauma , myself being someone who was extremely triggered . You knew me at that time . You knew me at that time . You know toxic relationships , all of that , depressions and anxiety , 12-step programs no-transcript . My baseline has just risen Meaning . So there's two things that's important for people to know . When you keep the beat , as I say , that's a cloudism . When you keep the beat , when you keep the beat on the practice over and over and over and over again , right Over time , not only does it get easier to practice , it doesn't mean the emotions don't , don't hit you , it just means that it's easier to have this place where you know to go . And , louisa , I hope , I hope I mean you're going to laugh , but I always say sit your ass down first , basically like sit down , feel . It does get easier and your baseline gets higher , meaning you might not go all the way back to the depressions you had when you started on the journey . Your baseline , your ability to hold a different emotional , spiritual baseline for me has gotten stronger and it's just higher .
Speaker 1And the other thing I want to say to people who are listening is track your recovery right , luis . I don't know if you found that maybe you'll get triggered , but the way you recover is quicker than you did when you started the journey . It's just faster . It doesn't mean you don't get the punch in the stomach , yep . You just track , don't go by weather . Wait a minute . Why am I still jealous ? Wait a minute , why does this still hurt ? It's more like no wait . I recovered a lot quicker once I dropped in , once I did my practice . Do you agree with this ? How is this I ?
Speaker 2absolutely agree . I absolutely agree . It's like I see that in myself . I still get triggered by all kinds of things . I just don't stay in there as long as I used to . It's there and it kind of goes through and I might get all kinds and then it's gone . You know , it's , it's not . Yeah , I totally agree with that . I think that is the fruit of practice . As long as we're not like you know it's , it's not . Yeah , I totally agree with that . I think that is the fruit of practice . As long as we're not , like you know , super enlightened beings , we're going to be triggered , we're going to . You know , this is this is this is our life . There's nothing wrong with that inherently wrong , right ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I agree with you , I do . I do idea of , like , the way to really be able to practice is by going away and being away from humans . I mean , what you were saying is like no , it's in our day-to-day life . Can you say something about that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , actually , the image that comes to me and this is not mine , it's a Pema Chodron , who's a wonderful Tibetan teacher , who's written many books . She talks about that . You know , enlightenment or this path to awakening is not like you're transcending the world and you're going up into some , you know , kind of , you know , to the top of the mountain . She said think of it , as the mountain is inverted and you're actually going down into the muck of things . She says the muck of things . So you're really sitting as the mountain is inverted and you're actually going down into the muck of things . She says the muck of things . So you're really sitting , so the mountain is inverted and you're really going down and sitting in live stuff and what we're finding is that when we sit with the muck of life this is the amazing thing , claudia , it's just so amazing we find we find love , you know , we , we find beauty there . It's so interesting .
Speaker 2It's like the Lotus . You know the Lotus flower , and I have a tattoo of a Lotus on my back because it's the reminder of the Lotus . You know , its roots are in the mud , you know , and it grows . This beautiful flower grows out of the mud . So , yeah , that's the conundrum right , and this is why it's not easy and why we need help and we need support . So we need community , we need therapists and we need people like you kind of guiding us , because it's hard to go down there and sit in the muck of it and wait long enough for beauty to arrive . But it's there , it is .
Speaker 1Louisa , and what you're making me think of is and I thank you for describing what the lotus means , because we do see these symbols all the time I would add to the word conundrum it's the great paradox , actually holding the paradox in balance , which is that , y'all with keeping the beat to these practices , what happens is we do this , the highest spiritual art of alchemy , that our wounds , trauma , survivors if you're listening can become this place of creativity , of beauty , of being able to walk with others who've also experienced , like if we go into the muck with all sorts of modalities , because it is hard when we do these , when we spelunk through the muck right , when we're going through it , when we're crawling through the muck right when we're going through it , when we're crawling , as I say , we need people like like you , louisa , like groups that are that are doing it with us , or or are on the other side , that say come on , come on , because there is great beauty .
Speaker 1And and when you said the thing about the inverted , I have found that , underneath all the layers , like I'm ashamed , I'm envious , I'm gross , I'm afraid , I'm guilty , when we keep going down
Finding Love in Life's Muck
Speaker 1over and over and over , we inevitably hit the and I love me , it has many layers above it , which is why it's hard to do the self-love work . But , as you're saying , we will find love and it threads together . The prophets found love , you found love . We will find love at the bottom of it all .
Speaker 2Yeah , so this inverted , yeah , yeah , yeah , you know we .
Speaker 2Another thing that I take a lot of comfort in is that that I take a lot of comfort in is that everywhere I've looked right and it's not that I've had an exhaustive exploration of different spiritual traditions but everywhere that I , that I , everything that I've come in contact with , and everywhere that I've looked and and and listened to and read and sat with many , many different teachers and and masters , et cetera , that the they all point to , that they all point to love .
Speaker 2You know , it can't so in my mind it's like they can't be wrong . You know , even sometimes when I I don't feel it little old me doesn't quite feel it it's like , underneath everything You're right , just as you said , it was really beautiful Underneath everything is that's what we'll find At the end of the day . That's what we find , that's what we are . Actually , that's what we are , and we don't believe it , we don't trust it sometimes , but really that's the continual thing I remind myself of . You know , that's what we are . We are as complete as we need to be and we are loved . And , and you're right , the circumstances that we face , though they may be difficult , are perhaps what we need and we can find love even within that .
Speaker 1So yeah , Lisa , we , can , we just add a few moments . So one of the things that I ask my guests on the podcast I have what I call the three volumes , which is the volume was the story you were born into , is volume one . The awakening story , which is volume two , like what , where , where did you start to say , wait , I'm , even if it's through painful things ? And then the volume three is what I call the chosen life , which is , you know , our heaven on earth life , like the life that we have designed and curated and picked . And then I want to leave you with the question what is heaven on earth for you ? But talk to me just first about your volume one , because you are an immigrant from Cuba during those times when Cuba was in full on revolution and Baptist church . Can you just give us a little bit of your volume one ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yes , actually , I , you know , I think that , yeah , I would say that probably the my immigrant story is one of the things that's most impacted my life , because it impacted that's most impacted my life because it impacted again my whole family and and and my childhood .
Speaker 2But you know one thing I just the story , thank God , and I I know that I am blessed that the story , part of the story that I was born into , is that I had a mother whom you know , you knew , claudia , who was my first spiritual teacher really , and continues to be my spiritual teacher , even though she's long , you know , she's long passed away , and so she had a group of Southern Baptists in North Carolina , so pretty conservative , it wasn't a whole lot of , you know , tolerance in one way , and yet my mother really walked the pure Christian life . I don't know how I karmically got lucky enough to have her as a mother . So , anyway that really , even though I went away from that , my root religion , which was her religion , I still feel like there's this connection , this door that she opened for me in terms of it being okay , you know , to explore and to be spiritual and to look beyond , kind of what we can see and feel in touch with our human senses . So I think you know that has really led .
Speaker 1I do know this about her , like I do know this about her because if people hear that she , that she was Southern Baptist , they might get an image . But your mother and her whole surroundings embodied that she was really quite open and quite accepting of all people .
Speaker 2That's right . And she , and the main thing is that she walked her own spiritual path and I think , without you know she what she just it was her thing , she walked her own spiritual path and so just modeled it , I think for both myself and my siblings . But you know , but I did , then , you know , search and explore and I have to say , psychedelics were part of my , my story as well , and I'm I'm appreciative , I'm I am appreciative of of those of that experience In what way ?
Speaker 1I talk about psychedelics as a modality a lot , especially today , with guides , with structure , not saying go , you know a lot of safety , yeah , a lot of safety , but but how did that open up your experience ?
Speaker 2Yeah , a lot of safety , but but how did that open up your experience ? I think it just opened me to to the , the understanding that there were other realms , that what I could you know , what I normally my ordinary walk around life , kind of my perspectives , could change , that that was fluid , that things were fluid , that I , that was no sort of rigidity to my perspectives and realities . So , yeah , so , while again I would also caution people in using that plant medicine Nowadays , for me it was an eye-opening , eye-opening experiences .
Speaker 1So yeah , I think all of that , and then and then just slowly , that's like your volume two a little bit , your awakening like starting to see literally an awakening right .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , exactly . And then I think that definitely led me to Buddhism . You know I went , I did other things in the midst there , but I think once I , once I really was exposed to these teachings , it felt like I had come home . It felt like what had been missing from my childhood Baptist roots . You know , the tools . There was a lot of sort of dogma , but not the tools to , at least in my experience . I know that there is in that , in that spiritual tradition , but I wasn't getting that as a child or teenager or young adult . So Buddhism gave me these tools . Oh my goodness , I can actually I can use the breath and there's loving kindness and I can do . You know there were all these sort of . They were supportive . So I think that's yeah , that's a little bit of the trajectory . What a good point you're making .
Speaker 1I mean , I talk about tools all the time psycho , spiritually but when you're talking about it in relation to your , your story of origin , it's interesting . It's almost like it gives you all these concepts . I always say they're so lofty , like forgive your enemy , or you know like , or only show love . It just felt so lofty . How do we forgive , how do you do that ? And there's something so grounding about tools . It's like a little instruction manual that we get as humans .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , and I will have to say a caveat that the longer I have practiced , and mostly Buddhism , the more I am connected to my Christian roots . So I really feel , again this blending One doesn't feel exclusive of the other . I wanted to sort of make that clear because I think it's all there really , in some way , when we dig deep enough .
Speaker 1It is yeah , it is dig deep enough . It is yeah , it is yeah . And if we can stay open to the fact that it's multiple paths , multiple paths to the one place of love , that if we can actually make the connections , many doorways , exactly , exactly , and then yeah like Like , talk about your chosen life a little bit Lou like , like the , the , the . When did you start to feel like it ? Well , you just described one Like I kept parts of my , my volume one .
Speaker 2I brought in some volume two , like when we start to just curate our life , yeah ,
The Three Volumes of Our Lives
Speaker 2yeah , right , well , I think that that that for me probably started when I was in the Peace Corps , and maybe that's because , you know , being in another country and sort of being away from what was familiar and and so it was , it was there , that sort of , I guess , if there was like a direction shift , it started to happen there and and yeah , and it was more toward looking for , looking for sort of a deeper experience , you know , looking that the psychedelics were , you know , were okay in the sense of like opening the door , but they didn't really get me there , you know . So it was really that the doors opening , in a way , being being away , being in another country , being in a familiar situation , the psychedelics and this root trust that I have of things unearthly , that then made it okay for me to sort of , you know , begin to explore and , like I said , I ended up in with Buddhism Think , think , you know really , how did that happen ? How did that happenism ?
Speaker 1think , think , you know really how did that happen . Thank you , how did that happen ? How did ?
Speaker 2you know that that's like I give a , I have to . Um , I am forever grateful . I don't know you know what I did in another lifetime to come into contact with tara brock early in my you know experience , because it was really she was the one that sort of opened that door even further for me and said , hey , come on in . So I began to go to her classes and then stepped into more of you know of a helping role and volunteer and leadership roles and uh , yeah , you know , I would say just right now , she's one of your love stories .
Speaker 1I would say you , you know , I would say just right now , she's one of your love stories . I would say your friendship runs , it goes way back and it runs so deep , Like when I feel the two of you . I just it's almost nonverbal the way that the two of you connect , connect when I feel you . I've been around you to , not , not as often , but she is one of your deep love stories .
Speaker 2Yes , absolutely , true , absolutely . You know in the practice , you , you . One of the categories is that you give loving wishes and you know , you , you wish well being and happiness to different beings and one of the categories is called your benefactor . But it's like your teachers , your mentors , you know people who have led you , and Tara's always in there . She's always in there . Yeah , yeah , I'm very grateful , very , very grateful for that . Yes , yes .
Speaker 1The world is grateful for her and for you , because you do a lot of her work here in in in this area you do . There's a few of you that really carry her torch with so much integrity .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , thank you . Yeah , the only thing I was going to say to sort of end the thing of what my story is now , what is interesting me right now and this could be a whole nother podcast , oh , you're coming back on Is and we've been talking about it to some degree , but it really is kind of like the interaction between the relative world and the absolute world , and so and I you know again , I don't want to go into all of what I'm meaning by that at this point- Give us a teaser though .
Speaker 2It sort of is the in .
Speaker 2In Buddhism there's , there's so many .
Speaker 2It's like Christianity there's many , many different sects and many different ways to practice and so many different traditions , and and there's one sort of tradition that is non-dual .
Speaker 2It's the non-dual experiences , sort of the emptiness experiences where we live in this relative world and it's what we can see , hear , touch , feel . We live here , so this is our reality , and yet there's this other reality where all of this that we think is permanent and solid is not , it's illusionary , and , and so I am by no means an expert and I am just dabbling in this , but it really it interests me . As I age and get closer to , frankly , death , yeah , I'm more and more interested in , in that , in in that experience and sort of human experience , but that is not tied to our bodies and um and to and to solidity or permanence , yes , so yeah , and I would venture to say because I dabble in this all the time , and I would venture to say because I dabble in this all the time , daily , is it's always with us , it's always with us and so it actually is what allows us , if we tap into that world that is not the relative world as you would call it , the relative world as you would call it we can actually .
Speaker 1I have this experience of loving this world more because we're so aware of the experience of having incarnated , to be here to smell our animals I always say that to smell cooking , to touch , to hug you when I see you , luisa the experience to be aware that actually this is impermanent and that there's this way that we as spirits live here , and so I tend to say that it allows for the heaven on earth experience so much more , because how are we not to love our rivers and the trees blowing in the wind and and even the journey of having to create our wounds into gifts ? So I appreciate , I appreciate you talking about this a ton .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think one way to look at it is exactly . That is heaven on earth . It's the two are you know ? It's like it's not putting one above the other . It's the two sort of interwoven . Yes , right , yes , exactly , oh my gosh , I just love this so much .
Speaker 1It's like a mudra , maybe for heaven on earth , for me , for me , like it's , like I'm touching the ground .
Speaker 2I'm reaching .
Speaker 1I'm reaching , yeah , yes , what is your heaven on earth , luisa ? And you know this isn't a test .
Speaker 2It's sort of maybe just a thought , or a scene , or this isn't a test , it's sort of maybe just a thought or a scene or , well , you know one of the things that I it's , it's kind of what . When I was thinking about this , what first came to mind is maybe what it's not , because I think there can be maybe a misconception , and so I thought , well , you know , it's not that , that there's that , not that there's this ideal on earth where there is no you know this heaven on earth where it's like , you know , everything is hunky dory and everything is kind of ideal and things go our way all the time and we're blissed out . It's not that , not that .
Speaker 1Let's rule that out really quickly .
Speaker 2I agree , let's rule that out really quickly . I agree , and it's also not the fact that it's also not that we're not in tune with the suffering and the injustices . I mean kind of going back to the theme of the topic for today and the many experiences that we experience as humans that can be painful and traumatic and unhelpful . So to me it's so . It's not that either , right , it's neither one of those sort of extremes , but what it is to me is that every little thing and big thing , but everything kind of no matter what , if allowed , can be seen as a miracle . Every little thing on earth can be seen as a miracle . And that it's what I bring to the situation . You know , it's my attitude and my , my response to any situation . That really makes it heaven . Right , that makes it heaven . So , yeah , it's to me it's about . It's about relating . Yeah , to me it's about relating , I think relating heavenly to earthly things .
Speaker 1It's bringing that experience to earthly things . So let's just take a breath on that . Luisa , I just want to thank you . I feel such deep love for you . You are one of my great love stories . I forgot to say you're my son's godmother .
Speaker 2Yeah , and then our sons were born around the same time . Our sons were born around the same time . Our sons were born around the same time .
Speaker 1So it's really , we have really traveled together and I just want to thank you . This feels like it's so perfect , even though we've done a ton of earthly work together , to come in and be here , of earthly work together to to come in and be here , and I , I will , if you are open to it , would love to have you back on and and we could just choose a topic , right A topic and and discuss it . We have today .
Speaker 2I would love it . I would love it . This has been so . This has been really sweet . Claudia , thank you for nudging me a bit . It's been just really really a wonderful experience for me and I hope it has served . I really do . I hope it has served listeners and folks that you are in your world , that you
Heaven on Earth as Relating
Speaker 2are really trying to help and serve and are helping and serving . Yes .
Speaker 1Yes , and please share it with your folks . Please share it with your folks Like the . The idea here is that we want all of this messaging to get out right now , as as as the walking in in the field , in the harvested field , while we're watching what's what's happening around us .
Speaker 2Okay , Thank you so much , okay , thank you .
Speaker 1We will see you again . Okay , bye , bye-bye .