Healing From Narcissistic Abuse

What happens when a survivor’s raw honesty meets a therapist’s wide-angle lens? We trace a gripping arc from love bombing and gaslighting to clarity, boundaries, and creative rebirth—and we do it with both heart and rigor. Grace Being shares the lived reality of narcissistic abuse: the “haze” that settles in, the cognitive dissonance that makes you doubt your own memory, and the painful moment empathy is nowhere to be found. Claudia Cauterucci brings the clinical scaffolding—what truly separates narcissistic traits from narcissistic personality disorder, why love bombing can even snare therapists, and how abandonment wounds and triangulation keep you hooked.

Together, we unpack the predictable “script” of NPD: supply, projection, superior–inferior dynamics, and the slow erosion of self that leaves you sleepwalking through life. We talk science without losing soul—like MRI research on empathy deficits—and then translate it into practical cues you can use right away: how to spot the haze, why your gut whispers matter, and how mindfulness turns down the noise so you can hear yourself again. If you’ve ever asked “Why didn’t you leave?” you’ll hear real answers: trauma bonds, parentification, and the seductive mirage that confuses volatility for love.

And then comes the turn: healing as renaissance. Grace describes losing her singing voice during the relationship—and the thrill of hearing its power return. That creative renewal becomes a recovery metric you can feel. We offer a simple, humane framework for no contact, self-validation, and closure that doesn’t depend on your abuser changing. Along the way, we share how our cross-Atlantic partnership formed and why our book blends story, science, and actionable exercises designed to help you rebuild and find your light again.

Preorder “Healing from Narcissistic Abuse: Rebuild from Relationship Trauma and Find Your Light Again” by Grace Being and Claudia Cauterucci, then hit play and join us. If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help others find their way back to themselves.

Transcript

Welcome, Book Reveal, Synchronicity

SPEAKER_00 0:35

It's mindful, fostering, and secure it path as we rise into consciousness. It's an earthly journey where we sensually embrace dynamic living. Race being welcome to the Heaven on Earth podcast. What a thrill to be here with you today. Can you believe this?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

I know. Yeah, it's so exciting. Thank you so much, Claudia, for having me here. I still it feels so surreal, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Exactly. Exactly. Hello, and welcome all of you, our audience for Heaven on Earth. And let me explain a little bit of why this is such a celebration for us. I'm Claudia Katarucci, the podcast host. And remember that Heaven on Earth is a place where we talk about all things through a multidimensional lens, a holistic lens, a mind, body, spirit, heart lens. And you will not be shocked that Grace Being fits all of those categories all in one. Grace Being and I are launching a book together in November called Healing from Narcissistic Abuse. And our subtitle is long, so I always have to look at it: Rebuild from Relationship Trauma and Find Your Light Again. And it is ready to pre-order on Amazon, y'all, if you want to go check it out right after the podcast. But we have this most incredible story

Grace’s Story: Why The Book Began

SPEAKER_00 2:15

as to how we started writing this book. And Grace, this is a great moment to invite you in to tell us about how this started for you.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah. Thank you, Claudia, for the beautiful introduction. So yeah, I started writing this book around 2020, 2021, just right after the pandemic. I was in the beginning of my healing journey from a relationship with a person who struggled from narcissistic personality disorder. And I felt a deep call to start writing this book. It was therapeutic for me, but also because I was thinking that there's no way in hell that I went through all of this and I will not make something good out of it. I really wanted to raise awareness about this mental health issue because I felt like if I had the right resources and education about this, it would have helped me so much to identify these kinds of behaviors and to take action before it was, you know, a bit too late. I would say there was a lot of damage that was done. So then I started writing this book, and it took me around two years to do the first draft. Then I started seeking publishers, and uh I had done a lot of research myself during these two years, um, doing scientific research, so the book um, you know, has uh resources and references, but there was a publisher that told me that I would need um a licensed psychotherapist if I want to get this book published, since I was not a psychotherapist myself. And so I I was like, okay, I'm not gonna give up on this. I'm gonna get this book out into the world. And synchronistically so I came across your profile on Instagram, and uh I really felt a connection with you immediately, and I reached out to you, and I was like, hey, what let's give it a go, you know. You don't know if you're not gonna try. And I found Claudia, who is on the other side of the world, by the way, because I am located in Spain, in Valencia, and Claudia is in Washington, DC, in the United States. And I reached out to you, and you were like, hey, I don't know who you are, but I'm interested in what you have to say. Let's do a call, right? And let's have a chat and have a conversation. And we had, I remember our conversation. It was one hour long. I was in the park, and there was like a strong connection immediately, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Absolutely. I mean, I remember it like yesterday, and I love calling these types of connections our love story, right? Um, Grace. And it really brings in the spiritual piece of all of this because truly, truly, truly, and for those of you listening, we truly had never met before. And those types of pulls, those types of spiritual urges, that type of connection that you feel with someone, and you you just tap on it, you tap on it and say, hmm, let's see where this goes. And immediately, and I remember thinking, this is thank you so much. I'm so glad you like my stuff, but I really don't know you. And I asked you for the manuscript, although we did talk at length about narcissistic abuse and healing, certainly because of my own personal experience, but also my expertise in the topic because of who I've worked with as well. So it was such a synchronicity. It was such a synchronicity. And for the folks listening, when Grace sent me her manuscript, I was, in fact, I was surprised why wouldn't they publish it on its own? It was such a rich, profound piece of work and so well written. I just read

Finding a Coauthor and Manuscript Merge

SPEAKER_00 6:30

through it with such ease and pain because you know you feel your pain, but it does, as the subtitle says, Grace, it does lead you into the light because you give this is not just a book, it's almost a workbook because you give exercises at the end of each chapter. And for folks listening, what's really powerful about Grace's part of the book is that she is extremely vulnerable in sharing and transparent in sharing some of the most humiliating experiences that you had. And you did that with purpose. You did that with intention to connect with folks out there, correct, Grace? Let's just touch on that really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because when I was writing the book, I really did not want it to be just another book about academic research and to sound a bit boring for the readers, but I really wanted the readers to connect with my story. And as you know from your expertise and your personal experience, these people follow a kind of script, even. And so, even though other people who suffered from narcissistic abuse, they might have experienced these kind of behaviors in a different context, they will realize as they are reading that they will recognize the patterns and the behaviors and the mind games, and it would just connect us, you know. They will come to know me, and I will come to know them through our wounds, literally.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yes, yes, that's so precise. You know, on this podcast, we we just it's sort of like a jam session, and you who do music know what that's like that we're gonna jam a little bit of here. It does become predictable, even though we're we're in the midst of the experience, we're so shocked, and because we're always shocked by cruelty. Humans who don't play those games, right? Whether that's from a government, whether that's from gangs, whether that's in your own family or within your own culture, humans, just normal humans, are quite shocked by cruelty. And you become a deer in headlights, which is why it's so easy to keep staying, because you continuously you're you're continuously shocked by the behavior. You don't you don't believe it. You don't believe it. And we can talk about these Germany, we could talk about Hitler, the way part of the process is the disbelief. But in any case, I just want to put that that it is a script, that it is predictable, and you outline that so beautifully. So, what happened, folks, was Grace asked me, I was absolutely enthralled. I said, I will absolutely put my name on this manuscript. And we spent a little of time figuring out how I would incorporate my ideas into the manuscript, right? Grace, do you want to say something about that?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yes, because even now, as you were speaking about these dynamics on a global level, even, and I feel that you have added so much substance to the book because my part is where I speak about one-to-one relationships, and there's the story and the psychological dynamics behind it and exercises. But then you come out and you put your insights, and I feel like every time that I read this book, no matter how many times I've read through it, the different drafts, I get chills all over my body because it feels like you've channeled this insights. There's so much wisdom that you put because it's like you have an overview, like zoomed out, and clearly describing the narcissistic dynamics in cultures, in politics, in society. And I think that the book just became richer and richer, and it that's

NPD vs Traits: Real Definitions

SPEAKER_01 10:40

why it feels like it's such a special unique book.

unknown 10:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yes, yes, it really does. And it's my, and I think you've heard me say this before, right, Grace? It's the all is in the small, the small is in the all. That is my particular approach, even on this podcast, which is we take the one-on-one relationship, but we can expand it to the collective and we can expand it to larger systems. And and I did bring that into the book. For the audience, because I know you're gonna pick it up, you're you're just gonna really be floored by this book, is floored and enlightened at the same time. We want you to go up and feel it, feel the grounding nature of it. Is what what we decided to do because we were unsure as to how we would bring my voice in, right? What we decided to do is to visualize it like the audience is visualizing us right now, that Grace would describe her story and I would have commentary according to the situations that she's describing. So in the book, I wish I had it with me. We don't have it in our hands yet, but we will for the next podcast in November. You'll find that there's they might look like bubbles even, but in italics, you'll find my commentary on Grace's experience as she goes along. And it will be clinical commentary, but it will also be the all is in the small and the small is in the all conversation about what's happening with Grace. So you you get both, right? We we really thought about how to do that.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yes, yes, absolutely brilliant idea. It came out beautifully.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yes. So, Grace, let's talk a little bit about, let's do a touch of your story, of your story, and then let's talk in a broader sense about narcissistic personality disorder and how it's it's trending. And let's talk a little bit later about why it's trending.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Well, I think first, yeah, let's let's clarify on this point that you mentioned. I like that because even in the beginning of the book, there's a short introduction where I explain the difference between narcissistic traits and this kind of trendy term that everyone is using nowadays, which kind of takes the power out of the real mental health disorder that is listed in the DSM 5. I think you can know you know better about this than me, as a licensed psychotherapist. Um, so there's like a nine uh criteria that diagnose narcissistic personality disorder.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yes. Right. And it falls under, and I love that you insist on talking about it as a mental health issue, not just for the MPD, and we're gonna call it the MPD, the narcissistic personality disordered person, but also for the the folks experiencing it. It is it is a whirlwind of mental, emotional, spiritual, and existential trauma that happens in this individual's purview. And again, this could be a lover, a spouse, a parent, a child. It really is an equal opportunity employer. It will take on all sorts

Therapy, Love Bombing, And Power Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 14:10

of forms. And narcissistic personality disorders fall under something called the axis to, which is one of the ingredients or several of the ingredients of the personality disorder is that it's consistent over time, that this has longevity, that it's consistent across many categories. Is this person like this at home, at work, with his kids, colleagues? Is this pervasive in their life? And does it have impacts across all categories of their life? That's usually because some people have narcissistic traits. We have narcissistic traits that we're where we find ourselves doing things that we are like, oh, maybe that was a little narcissistic as a parent, as a friend, even. But these are situations where the narcissism, and there's lots of characteristics, but they're pervasive. And I want to say this is something a lot of people don't talk about. When psychotherapists are working with someone with narcissistic personality disorder, we need support. So we are encouraged to get outside support from other therapists and to be talking about the case with other folks who can help hold us as we're working with an MPD. That's how strong this personality disorder is.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, um, and it can be even difficult for psychotherapists to identify, no, because uh person with narcissistic personality disorder is so skilled in playing with the persona and putting up a mask that can be hard to identify for a psychotherapist, let alone someone who is not educated about this.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Exactly. And some psychotherapists who don't know because the love bombing happens to the psychotherapist.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

So it is a stage, it is an actual stage of telling the psychotherapist that they're the best therapist they've ever had. It's ongoing. Look how great you look today. The love bombing can last for a while. And then what happens is the jabs, right? The dynamic of superior, inferior, and what we talk about in the book a lot, Grace, is that that's the only relationship dynamic. Is am I superior or am I inferior? That that's it. Yeah, and so if they're feeling inferior in every any way, they have to always trump. They have to always come in and feel in superior, and that includes with a psychotherapist, they have to find a way to feel superior to the psychotherapist.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so would you like to go into the signs and symptoms, or would you like to discuss something else about this personality disorder?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Sure, let's do the signs and symptoms. Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Well, yes, I have to I have listed the the main nine criteria in the book. Wait, sorry, because my my cat is jumping on me right now. So I think one that definitely stood out was the lack of empathy, for example. There has been studies through MRI scans, which I found to be so interesting, that they have less gray matter in the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for emotional regulation, and it makes them lack empathy. And so this was a kind of a moment of realization for me during an episode that I had with my ex-partner, where I was in an accident and I really needed help, and I I tell the story in the first chapter of the book, and I was I needed physical help, I was in danger. Um, and at that point, and we had been for together

Lack Of Empathy: Science And Story

SPEAKER_01 18:05

for three years already, and he just looked at me and he laughed at my face, and instead of providing help and support, he mocked me and he refused to help me in any shape or form. And at that point in time, I I realized and I accepted it because I had known that he was suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, and I had confronted him about it. But I was still hoping that I could love him out of it, and I know that many Islamist understand what I'm saying. And then it hits me, and I was like, okay, there's no empathy here. And that really differentiates someone who has a narcissistic trait and someone who's suffering from the NPD, and I had to accept it.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yes. Grace, talk a little bit about the staying. Because some listeners and a lot of people who've not been in this type of relationship are always so shocked. And Dr. Romani, who's an expert, folks listen to Dr. Romani, she talks about this a lot, and I really appreciate that she does. Because people in domestic abuse situations or who live with, I mean, it might sometimes be the same person who's also narcissistic personality disorder. People who have never been in these types of relationships say, but why do you stay? As if it's really easy to leave. So can you say more about your personal experience of loving him out of it or reasons why you stayed even after you saw some of this behavior?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, um, yeah, that's a great question. And it's a question that I've heard a million times in my personal experience as well. And I used to watch Dr. Romani and I learned so much from her um to understand what was happening. So it was more than one thing. There were multiple variables that were keeping me stuck in the relationship. So definitely one of the issues was my kind of my childhood upbringing, because I was brought up in a way that I had the savior complex where I always felt like I needed to take care of the other, um, and kind of like fix and be the savior, even when it was detrimental to my health and overall well-being. The other one was trauma bonding. I used to confuse this trauma bonding with love. And I remember when I was learning about love and how a healthy relationship should be, and I could realize that this looked very different from what I was experiencing in my relationship. The problem with this is that it's not so easy to realize what's happening. You feel so confused and you experience cognitive dissonance because in in narcissistic relationships, the narcissist is not always bad, is not always treating you badly. You have moments of enjoyment, of bliss, so they really know how to do a dance and keep you hooked onto them, and they create this illusion, you call it a mirage even in the book, I remember that you need them in your life, and you know there's a lot of abuse and belittling comments, and so this toxic web of entanglement where you lose your sense of self, you lose your sense of identity. He becomes or she becomes your life support. And so you don't realize that you actually don't need this person in your life, and this person is actually making your life worse. They are feeding on your energy, so it goes deeper even than than what we can really see

Why People Stay: Trauma Bonds

SPEAKER_01 22:00

and understand. And then when you start making some distance and working on yourself, you start realizing and seeing with more clarity, but yeah, it's it's very difficult. So it's it's easier said than done. And I don't want any anyone who is experiencing this to feel guilty or ashamed for staying, because it's really difficult and it's it's not their fault, you know. And I've struggled with this personally a lot, feeling ashamed of what happened to me.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yes. And Grace, just so you know, and the audience knows that I take notes, I read from notes the whole time that let's would I I'd I'd like to put a pin in how you started to feel the distance, because it's really important to track the healing journey when you start to actually feel a little bit of distance, which is the saving grace that begins. But let's let's talk a little bit about how we talk about this in the book. So for everyone who is listening, and I really hope that folks who might be going through this can have, even if you've studied it, you have a different way of hearing this. So, first of all, what Grace was talking about about being the savior, this is very true for empaths. And you know, I talk to empaths a lot, is the person who is the fixer, the savior, the solver. And usually that's because of a childhood wound of being a parentified child. And what that means is that this child feels that in order to get their own parenting, in order to finally get the parent to parent you, you have to say fix, solve, make happy, cure. It's usually, and this might happen because a parent is distracted, is depressed, is raging, is unhappy in some way, is self-centered or narcissistic themselves. The child will attempt to harmonize the environment, and this is very true for the empath child, which I know you are, in order to actually receive love. And so this is the way it translates with the narcissist. This is one of the ways. So it starts with a wound. It also starts with a need. And the reason why it's important for the audience to know about how the narcissist, and this happens with systems as well, they get in through the fear of being left because there's huge abandonment fear. We talk about that a lot in the book, Grace, is the the fear that you will be abandoned with, which is a childhood wound, and through need, I need you to love me. It's an actual need that wasn't filled in childhood. So, how these folks get in. And let me say something to folks listening. If you weren't seen heard as a child, which becomes a need as an adult, the narcissist will study you and will study you beautifully, every inch of you, because this is their expertise. How do I get in? How do I hone in? Do you write, Grace? Like, and I know this sounds cold, but until you realize that this is an actual strategy, it's really hard to reconcile. It is cognitive dissonance. So it might be your first time feeling studied, feeling that all your details are known. It might be your first time feeling seen and heard that someone really knows you.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Yes, you're nodding your head. Because we couldn't have said it any better, really. In my experience, it all started from there.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

And they are so good at at identifying which person is going to be good for their kind of narcissistic supply.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yes, exactly. Can you say something about narcissistic supply? Let's let's just jump right in there with with this language.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, so narcissistic supply is something that I learned about when I

Supply, Abandonment, And Triangulation

SPEAKER_01 26:05

was educating myself about this mental health issue. And even though we are made to feel like we need the narcissist, and we do at certain points, yeah, because we have this wounded inner child, but they also need us. And you describe this in the book as plug-and-socket, no, it's a perfect description, yes, because they also need to feed on other people, which is why it's so difficult for a narcissist to leave a relationship for good, and they have a tendency to hover and they will discard you, but then after a while, when their ego needs validation again, they will come back and they will try to seek it from someone, anyone that they can find, because their ego, even though they may seem confident, some of them, they have a very fragile ego because they are also traumatized. And this is also something that kept me stuck in the relationship because I had so much compassion for this person because I understood that he had a childhood trauma, and it was easier for me to be compassionate with him, and I forgot to be compassionate with myself, which is something that I learned later in life, and that keeps you stuck because as an empath, you are so ready to empathize and be compassionate for the other person, but your your needs and your emotions matter as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

In fact, they are the most important emotions needs, and the empath will feel the wounded empath or the unhealed empath will feel that that's selfish with a little S. And I like talking about it with the big S, the healing of the self, of the holistic self, which is so powerful. And oh gosh, Grace, you just said something there of oh yes. What I always say is spoiler alert, because one of the tactics is to always scare you with abandonment. I will leave you, you're not worth staying for, looking around the room at other people, the divide and conquer, meaning always pitting you against other people for competition. Now, the way that might show up in a parent is there will be divide and conquer between the siblings. You're my favorite today, you go away, you're my favorite today, you go away. So the siblings are always at war with each other, at war with each other in order to gain the love of the parent. The way that it might look like in a spouse or in a lover is that they're always looking at other people. There's always triangulations going on, so that you feel less and less and less, and that you have to jump through all of these hoops. But those are little pokes at your abandonment wounds, and not always little, sometimes they're very intense, and you will be threatened with abandonment. And what I say is the spoiler alert is that the narcissist doesn't leave even after you've left them. They stick around because you said it here, Grace, that they become your life support. That's part of the illusion. The illusion is that you feel like you're my life. Because they they've diminished you so much that you feel like they're the only source of life for them when it's actually the contrary. And that's where narcissistic supply comes in. If they don't have you to supply them to give them life, they wither, they feel like they're vanishing. Yeah. Does this track for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, it was me that had to, even after two years of breaking the relationship, this person kept trying to contact me and to maintain some kind of friendship, which I did in the beginning. However, I came to my senses and understood and realized that it does not make sense to befriend someone who has abused you. And use you for so many years. And so I decided to cut off contact completely. And this is so important. If you have you want to have self-respect and

The Haze: Gaslighting And Brain Fog

SPEAKER_01 30:10

maintain this, why should you keep someone who abused you in your life? It just doesn't make sense. But I just could not see it.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Well, and that's the tricky part with the compassionate heart. One of the things that I like to say is if you can picture that you come from two different lands. Like literally two, it's like coming from two different countries. And in one country, it is customary to be compassionate and generous and want to help people who are in pain, that that's just part of the custom of the land, because it's so hard to understand that in this land, in this country, that does not exist. What folks see is in this land, in the land of the narcissist, is they see that the customs here are to give, to be generous, to have compassion, to provide, to work extra hard. And so this, the person in this land will come in and take all the treasures. And if you can see it as two different, because it is hard to, it takes a while to comprehend that this is actually happening.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Right? It's a deer and headlight. It's so funny, your cat, I think, is confirming everything we're saying. I actually see everything has meaning. And so even her wanting to be on your leg is like she just wants to be next to you while we're talking about this. While we're talking about this. All creatures know we feel each other. We feel each other. She was like, Yeah. Grace, let's say a little bit something about this haze or confusion that settles in. And I call it the haze. There is a mirage, but there's something very powerful about the haze that drops in where you start questioning yourself and not knowing yourself. Because that's part of the tactics, is that you lose who you are.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yes, that was one of the most difficult things that I had to get myself out of and find my way back. Because what happened was there was so much lying and gaslighting. And for those who don't know what gaslighting is, is when someone twists this story that happened or invalidates your experiences and your emotions. That when it happens so often, you start questioning whether you're going insane or not. You start questioning your sanity. And I remember taking notes of events, recording conversations, because he would deny certain conversations that we had or agreements that we made for hours. And I needed evidence because I was questioning my sanity, whether and so you experience brain fog, even like this was scientifically proven.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Yes, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

You feel so confused, you're not able to make decisions anymore for yourself. The levels of cortisol in your body are go through the roof. You're fixated on fixing the relationship, you're always trying to be better, you never, it's never good enough what you do. You're always walking on eggshells trying to to babysit this person because they're unable to regulate their emotions. And so your entire life becomes revolved around making this person happy. And you forget what your needs are, you're about what you want to do, what you like, what you dislike about yourself. You lose your sense of self and it becomes so foggy that you just kind of like sleepwalking through life. Sleepwalking, really. That's that's how it felt for me. And at some point I was experiencing so so much like emotional stress and bottling it up that the moment that I sat down with a healer, a healer I call him, because that's what he is, who started me on my healing journey, then I would just cry. We used to spend three hours speaking together. The first hour was just me crying it out. Just so much pain, so much pain that I was carrying. And then slowly, slowly reflecting on what's happening here and writing things down, and then I start to understand slowly what's happening and reading about narcissistic abuse, how it looks like what's happening, and making making sense out of my experiences. And it was validating my experience because he would never ever validate my emotions or my experiences, no matter how much I tried to get him to understand what was happening in the most eloquent way. It would never, and I know that the listeners will understand what I'm saying, and this

Mindfulness, Inner Signals, And Safety

SPEAKER_01 35:20

is also something that keeps you stuck in the relationship because you never get closure. You need to learn how to give yourself closure and validate your own experience and emotions. And this book, the intention behind it, part of it, is to help you have this validation, and you will feel like, oh my god, someone gets me. This is real what I'm experiencing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I get me, and that's all that matters, right? That is the pinnacle. That is the pinnacle. I know, I know. I want you to take a deep breath because as you are re-experiencing it, so I want us to go very carefully. Go ahead and and right, it it is extremely powerful, Grace. I just want you to take a deep breath because when we revisit these places, we revisit them. And so let's be trauma-informed about it. Okay. Yeah, because really, and when when folks read the book, you'll see, and Grace, thank you so much for being so available to us in this way. Let me just say a few quick things and then we can we can, you know, part of my work is that I try to make really big concepts into practical and portable daily lives. Will so for folks listening, the haze is something really this is where mindfulness, and in our second podcast, we're going to talk about how grace healed, which was through mindfulness and spirituality. And the reason why mindfulness is so important is because you learn how to drop into yourself. You're not checking outside of yourself because it is dangerous to check outside of yourself because the narcissist is in your purview and he and he or she is trying to confuse you. Again, this can be a family member, a parent, a lover, a spouse, a boss, a sibling, a government.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Okay, let's just so I've encountered all of them, I would say, in my life. Yes, magnet to to these kinds of people.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Right, that's the plug-in socket, right? So I want folks to identify sometimes if you've been through these experiences, if you're healing, anytime you're in a situation that you walk into and you you mindfully feel like I'm feeling the haze. Let's give them this language, okay? Like I'm feeling the haze because this person seems like they're really love-bombing me, but something feels off, which is why I insist in all my work to become psychically literate. And all I mean by that is emotionally intelligent, where you know yourself and you know the psychic conversation that's going on, because so much of what narcissism does is through the psychic conversation, the gaslighting. This isn't true. By the way, let me just say something about you recording, which I talk about it in the book with you. I say that that was your higher soul or your inner self that knew, that knew something was off. So some people might see, well, that's so crazy. Why are you recording? It's like something inside of her was defending you, was saying, record this, you're right. I really want to emphasize that. That you were taking notes because there was something your inner soul was fighting for you, Grace. And I just love that. She was fighting so hard for you, and we can track that in the book. It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah, I think that's really important because what you just highlighted, because I even in the beginning of the relationship during the love bombing, I used to have these like small gut feelings and whispers that okay, this feels really good, but it's like something feels like it's too good to be true, like something and it's moving on so fast, like something was off, but I just couldn't see it, and I wasn't in touch with my psychic abilities and my internal compass. I believe that could protect people a lot.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Thank you for highlighting that.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

And to be grounded to being very still, because the love bombing is so intense and the deliciousness. So let me say something. This I say it in the book, it is quite delicious, right? These these folks are hitting your every spot when they're trying it. That includes a parent. They are taking you shopping, they are hitting what you most need, they are giving you quality

Healing Arc: Boundaries And No Contact

SPEAKER_00 40:10

time, they are like it is filling a need very powerfully, just so for folks to know. And so the ability to ground and stay still inside yourself and ask what's feeling off is very important. So I'm just gonna piggyback on what you said. This idea of not feeling good enough is actually a projection because the narcissist never feels good enough, never, so they're constantly projecting it on their sources of supply, and they do make you do hoop jumping and hoop jumping against other people, but you never make the mark. That's where you beautifully talk about having closure on your own because you'll never hit it.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yes, you you'll burn yourself out trying, like it will never happen.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Yes, and this idea of brain fog is really important for you listeners, too. I always say that if folks who have stayed with the narcissist, and I've seen this happen, so this is from my own 25 years of working with folks, they become zombies, which is that sleepwalking feeling. They completely lose a sense of self, like they zombie out because it's too hard to endure or to fight the narcissist. That's why when people ask, well, why didn't your mother protect you from him? It's because this person might have zombed out if you're if you're gonna stay. The other thing is the people around the narcissist are the ones who get sick that they really, because of cortisol levels, digestive issues, we talk about all of that in the book. They begin to get sick because this is such an intense experience of projected cruelty, hate, and envy. So this foggy sleepwalking experience in cortisol is super important. So, hey folks, I know this sounds dark. In our next podcast, we're gonna talk about the beautiful healing that can happen because that's the point. When we talk about and find your light again, this is what's possible. And so, Grace, will you allow me to say what you're doing now? Yes, do you wanna we will you share with us what where you are now? What's what's going on with you? Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Uh yay, it's it's so important to know because when you're in these kinds of situations, it can be so hard to see the light, to understand that there's hope, it can feel so distant, but it is possible. And oh my god, when you when you realize what's happening and you decide to work on yourself, if you are as dedicated as you are to yourself, as much as you were on the relationship with the narcissist, whatever kind of relationship you had, can you imagine how much you will thrive? Because we are dedicated people, we know how to devote ourselves. Yes, yes, committed, committed, and this is a decision that I had made a few years ago, and I made it working on the relationship with myself the most important thing, and of course, I've done mistakes along the way, I've done several mistakes, and it took me a while to to heal and have a few other experiences where I needed to understand on a deeper level what was happening, but I never gave up on myself and decided to continue working and healing these wounds that kept me stuck in these kinds of dynamics until I was able to connect with myself and self capital S, as you say, to find wholeness within myself. And the more that I unpeeled the layers and the personas that I had adapted through my life, through my childhood upbringing, through society,

Renaissance: Singing, Power, And Rebirth

SPEAKER_01 44:20

peeled all the layers and go back to myself, connect with my inner child, and oh my god, I now started singing, which is something that I've done since I was a child. It was a childhood dream that I had. Um, and I remember as a child I was always singing outside, and people would surround me and enjoy my singing, and everyone tells me that I have such a beautiful voice. And I was just a child, you know, I was just being myself, and this was a dream that was neglected, unfortunately. And something interesting that happened that I was naturally born like singing on tune. It came naturally to me. But during those five years when I was with the narcissist, I realized that I never sang. So he literally took everything from me my essence, my authenticity, my authentic expression. And I noticed this because I ended the relationship, started healing. I remember I started singing again in my apartment, and I sang off-key. And this was shocking for me. I had never experienced this, and I was like, what? I never sing off-key. Why has this happened? And I realized that I was so sad and depressed because of the relationship. He took away everything from me. Like my soul was still there, which is what saved me. But to understand how deep this was, and now that I finally got back to it, it's like an effortless unfolding and manifestation where I'm having my first concert next Saturday. So this is such a big week for me. With the launching of the book, our podcast, my first concert. I have another concert booked in my home country. I need to fly there to make another concert. Which is where? Which is where? In Malta, a beautiful island in the middle of the Mediterranean. Um, so I feel like I'm in renaissance, and I want the listeners to know that this is possible for them as well. You know, transmuting the power of inner alchemy. No, you you are an expert on this.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Yes, and what I really love that you're saying this. So the Heaven on Earth podcast is we talk about that this is not just positivity, that we never bypass anything that includes negative emotions, right? That in fact, in order for us to get to heaven on earth, we have to go through these trauma tunnels we cannot bypass because otherwise we're sitting on like a glass house on a deck of cards that is about to collapse unless we really go through the the the 3D plane, the part of being planted on earth. So, and then, but these are the signs for heaven on earth. First, that our wounds become our gifts, and grace is a clear example of that. She took her wound and she brought this book to life. She brought it and she's gifting it to the world. So the wound can be the gift, and that's part of heaven on earth, sort of the approach to heaven on earth that we're thinking about. The other piece that is very also particular that I the way that I work with my clients and Grace, I've talked to you so much about it, is the idea of renaissance. That when folks are healing, the way one of my measures, sometimes it's very quiet, I just start tracking it, and sometimes I speak to it, is that folks start to touch renaissance. And in Spanish, it's renacimiento, it also means rebirth. They start to touch their rebirth, literally, and that's what you're doing. And renaissance meaning art, music, beauty, sunsets, anything that feels like the arts. It's it's a very strange thing. But when my clients start to want to cut their hair in a chic way or wear different fashion, or sing, or paint, touch or write when they start to touch their rebirth. So the way we're seeing it in you, Grace, the way we're seeing renaissance, rebirth, renacimiento, literally, this is what it means is this touching of beauty, of art, of creativity. Because what trauma does, it keeps us, we stop being creators, we stop being creative. It actually like we literally feel that possibility is not available to us when we are it frozen in trauma. When we start to defrost, right? And when we start to heal the wound, which is what you have done, you took your wound and it has now become your gift. And the gift to us, that's what you did. You went deeply into your wound and you created this book. And then as you've defrosted your trauma, right? I know it's just visuals really help people. Visuals really help people. There's these cracks of light, like our book says, of possibility and the measures and the markers, the measures and the markers are these touching of renaissance, really, which both means art but rebirth.

Hope, Preorder Details, Audience Q&A

SPEAKER_00 50:00

And and so you coming back into your singing self. Maya Angelou wrote a book called I Know Why the Cage Bird Sings, and you're reminding me of that. I know why the cage bird sings. I mean, what a metaphor that you are back to singing.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Yes, and it feels so me, you know, and there was a point in my life where I didn't know who I was. I was I was so disconnected from myself, which I believe was one of the reasons why I was why I felt prey for for these kinds of people. You know, because they they sense they are really good at identifying who is gonna be good for for their kind of mind games, and the more connected you are to your creative force that we all have inside of us, the more powerful you are really. And I feel this in my singing. The first time that I performed in June, it was a small room, the hole was quite small, and I heard the power of my voice on a microphone with amplifier, and I was scared. I was scared of my own power, my voice, and I had chimed all over my body because I have been so good at shrinking myself and playing it small that I I was scared of the power that I carry within me. And now that I'm learning how to let it all out, it just opens you up to to heaven on earth, which is I love the name of your podcast. It it's perfect, you know, and it's possible, it's not some crazy spiritual idea.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

This is real, it's possible. That we can we are on earth and we can bring our own pieces of heaven and it's customized and it's individualized. But you always say such powerful things, we were wrapping it up, but this idea of shrinking yourself and becoming smaller is actually a requirement when you are around a narcissist, because they will experience you as competition, which means that they need to immediately do anything to make you smaller. And so the child, the lover, the spouse, the employee, the populace learn how to make themselves smaller. They learn how to shrink, they learn how to become invisible, they lose all of their gifts that's being actually siphoned, siphoned to whatever narcissistic system is around. So shrinking, getting smaller, forgetting our prowess, because those that's actually dangerous around a narcissist.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Oh, yes, you know, they wouldn't be able to tolerate that. Yes, their ego would be so threatened.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Yes. So they will dominate, be cruel, etc., etc. So this El Despertar, we say in Spanish, like this awakening.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Oh, that you know so much Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Some words just come to me in Spanish and they're so beautiful and poetic. But the way that I've been describing Grace on my vlogs or on my podcasts, like this idea of awakening that people talk about all the time, I actually feel like it's awakening to a remembrance that we actually begin to really remember ourselves. And for you to go back to that little girl who like boldly and fearlessly and joyfully just sang for people, it's just gorgeous.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

So let's end on that beautiful note of light. And our next podcast will be in November, which is when the actual book comes out. But you can pre-order it. It's it's out there for pre-order on Amazon.com Healing from Narcissistic Abuse by Grace Bing and Claudia Katarucci. And the subtitle is Rebuild from Relationship Trauma and Find Your Life Again. So beautiful. And you'll find Grace's links and my links on the podcast. And Grace, thank you so much. I can't wait for our next podcast where we talk about the tools and this idea that healing is possible.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Thank you so much, Claudia. It was a real pleasure. I didn't see the time pass really. I think we could stay talking for hours on end, no? And we might.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

While we're promoting the book, we might have a few more. And let's see, audience, will you please comment on whether you want to hear more about this and maybe drop some questions that you might want to hear us discuss in our next podcast? We would love that. We want to be in relationship with you, with the listeners. So please like, share, subscribe. Anyone who might feel you might feel that this is helpful for, please share this content with them and let the let's blow a kiss to the algorithms, as I like to say, and and let us know. Let us know what you're thinking about the content that's being shared. Welcome to heaven on earth, Grace. And I'll see you in the next round.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Okay. Okay. Bye.