The Narcissist's Playbook -- And How To Stop Dancing To It

What if the rush that felt like fate was actually the first act of a script? 

In this raw and revealing second episode of Healing from Narcissistic Abuse, we pull back the curtain on one of the most seductive illusions of our time—the love that felt cosmic but was coded for control. We trace the full arc of narcissistic abuse: from the intoxicating high of love bombing, to the confusion of devaluation, to the quiet ache of discard, and finally—your return home to self.

Grace brings moments of raw truth that make the pattern impossible to unsee: the thrill that felt like destiny, the gradual isolation, the subtle erosion of joy. I (Claudia) bring the clinical and psycho-spiritual map underneath it all—why empaths are drawn to narcissists, how trauma bonds form, and what it truly means to break free without breaking faith in love itself.

Once you see the choreography—idealize, devalue, discard, repeat—you can stop dancing to it. 

We unpack the psychology of why smart, caring people stay: the cognitive dissonance, the nervous system’s addiction to intensity, the “fixing” impulse born in chaotic childhoods. The body keeps the score, so we bring the body back into healing. From yoga and ecstatic dance to massage, breathwork, and shaking meditations—these are the sacred tools that help release stored survival stress and re-teach the body what safety feels like.

Solitude becomes a turning point, not a punishment.
We share the moment peace returned—over something as simple as breakfast—and the quiet joy of choosing your own show without second-guessing. This is practical healing: language for red flags, tools for regulation, and steps for rebuilding self-trust.

Together, we name the invisible weapons—triangulation, silent treatment, isolation—and dismantle the cultural conditioning that keeps victims quiet. The message is hopeful, embodied, and deeply human: education sparks awareness, somatic care restores safety, community ends isolation, and consistent small choices rebuild a life that feels like yours.

Ready to rewrite the script?
Ready to remember who you were before the manipulation?
Ready to come home—to peace, to power, to you? 

📘 Pre-Order the Book: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse: Rebuild from Relationship Trauma and Find Your Light Again
🔗 https://www.amazon.es/dp/1961293447?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_A8KGQK30QZ9ZXCVXPX85

📺 Subscribe to the YouTube Channel: Healing from Narcissistic Abuse — for monthly deep dives, stories, and somatic tools

🌐 Follow & Connect: @grace.being | @claudiacauterucci

💬 Engagement is Activism — your likes, shares, and reviews help bring healing into humanity’s algorithm.

#HealingFromNarcissisticAbuse #NarcissisticAbuseRecovery #TraumaHealing #CPTSDRecovery #EmpathAwakening #SomaticHealing #SelfRegulation #EmotionalHealing #BoundariesAreLove #PsychospiritualHealing #GraceBeing #ClaudiaCauterucci #HeavenOnEarthPodcast #EngagementIsActivism #DynamicMeditationMethod #ReclaimYourPower #RewriteTheScript #LoveBombNoMore #SelfLoveIsRevolution #HealingJourney

Transcript

Welcome, Book Launch, And Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Mindful, fostering, and secure it has we rise into consciousness. It's an earthly journey where we sensually embrace dynamic living.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Hello, beautiful souls, beautiful tribe. Welcome to the Heaven on Earth Podcast. I'm your host, Claudia Katarucci, and this is where psychotherapy meets spirituality. And we speak of all things from a multidimensional level, and we believe in holistic healing and we believe in building community. And today I am back with Grace Being. Thank you, Grace, my co-author for the book that we're putting out together this month. So I have the link to pre-order it down in the notes. Grace Being is the lead author in the book, Healing from Narcissistic Abuse. And I am the secondary author. And Grace talks about it from a personal perspective. And I chime in with a clinical and psycho-spiritual lens. And it's just been such a gift to do this work with you, Grace. And today we're going to do the podcast in a bit of a different way. We're going to pull some topics from the book and discuss it a little bit more deeply with just conversation between us. And we'd love for you to have any questions or anything that you are thinking about, or if it hits the spot for you, write it in the comments and we'll certainly get back to you. And just know two more announcements before Grace begins.

Why The Book’s Structure Matters

SPEAKER_01 2:24

We have created a YouTube channel that's called Healing from Narcissistic Abuse that will only be about the book, about conversations, about healing from narcissistic abuse. I will put the link in the notes in the comments area. So please know that we are building a channel. And on that channel, Healing from Narcissistic Abuse, we will be having a monthly recording between Grace and I, where we also go more deeply into topics that we are picking from the book that we will discuss. So please chime in, join us, share, like, comment. It is here for you. Because we take this topic so seriously because of how much damage and destruction this topic has done. And we are here for the healing of it. We are here for the healing. And I will be having a six-week group. And that will be a paid group. If you're interested in that, let me know. I will be leading it as a psychotherapist and talking, especially about maybe if you've had a narcissistic parent, because that's something that's that's very hard to deal with. The book comes out in November. So it's already out for pre-order in Amazon. And now, Grace, welcome.

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Welcome. Thank you, Claudia. Thank you so much. It's so nice to be with you here again. Our last conversation time flew by really quickly. And I'm sure today is gonna be the same. So today I really wanted to talk more about the book, as you said. And I think it's good to start by explaining the structure of the book. Because when I was thinking about how to write the book and the table of contents, I wanted to organize it in a way that was reflecting on my healing journey. The first step for me, at least, was really by understanding the psychology behind narcissistic abuse and educating myself about it. Because the more that you understand the dynamics that go on about when you're in a relationship, any kind of relationship with a narcissist, it really validates your your experiences, especially since there's a high chance that the narcissist denies your experience and they they don't give you any closure when you try to confront them with something. So the book is divided into four parts. Um the first part is my my story, my my chapter. Um then we talk about the psychology behind narcissistic abuse, and then the third part is delving deeper on the psychology, on our psychology, to understand why we are attracted to narcissists. That was the second step in my healing journey. I noticed that there was a pattern in my life where I would fall prey to these people. It was definitely not the only person that had narcissistic traits. And so I got really curious and I really wanted to break this pattern to become more conscious of my choices and what was happening inside of me that was attracting me and making me stay with these kind of people. So the third part of the book really goes into that. And then the fourth part, I talk about steps that you can take to cultivate a healthy relationship with yourself. And I really love how you describe it when you mentioned, even in the book, that we need to get a PhD on ourselves, and these claudisms really get stuck in in your head because they they make a lot of sense. So that is the the structure of the book.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yes, yes, yes. You're already having my and you know, I take notes. I'll be taking notes, and I I certainly read from my notes, but you already have my mind popping. And Grace, I just found, I remember when you invited me to be a co-author. And when I read that first part, your own personal story, I it was a weird thing because I was completely mesmerized and fascinated. You pulled me right in. And that it's it's it's like watching a car crash, really, right? Because you describe it in so much detail. And I said this in the last podcast. I was so thankful for how much detail you provided because even though you were exposing and being so vulnerable about these very humiliating experiences, it allows the reader to not only connect to say, Oh, me too. It also really showed all the tactics that where you really begin to self-doubt and

Love Bombing And The First Tests

SPEAKER_01 7:41

leave yourself because that's what happens. You also describe really fully. So I guess what we're doing is just jumping into the first part without a lot of detail, because listen, audience, you're going to want to pick up this book just just to read her journey because you will find yourself in it, and you will find that you connect with the part of you that has to defend, explain, and these are all the places that we are put in when we are part of the relational dynamic with a narcissist, and that can be a boss, a friend, a lover, a parent, a nation. Throwing that in. Just have to all in the small, small in the all. Grace, let's jump. I'm gonna like can we just just jump around a little bit? Let's let's go with part two. Because I know we'll connect back to your story. Talk a little bit. Can you expand a little bit about realizing what you call this pattern of being prey? And you don't use that word lightly, prey. Yeah. Say more about that. Let's let's talk about that so people realize first how to discover the pattern.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

Yeah, this is a very important uh thing to highlight because it all starts from there. And as we mentioned in the last podcast, narcissists are really good at detecting whether you're going to be a good partner for them or friend or a good candidate for narcissistic supply, as we explained what it is already. And so they're really good at reading people, and it can be difficult initially to pick up on these things because they they really read you well, and they know how to get into your psyche. So if they sense that you need validation or you want to be seen or loved, they can really start love-bombing you, which is the first step that the narcissist starts doing. And this can feel and can this can take place in different ways. So it can be a lot of affection that feels a bit rushed, but your nervous system gets excited. Or when things feel like they're moving too quickly, even like moving in together after a month, for example. I know that he had asked me to move in with him after one month, which felt a bit strange, but of course I wanted to do it. So, you know, it's like your gut feeling is telling you, hey, something is not right, but because you you crave what the narcissist is presenting to you, you would want to ignore the gut feeling and go for it. It could be through Grace.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I'm gonna pause you right there because this is because there are some people who are like, I would never move in with anyone if they asked me to move in after a month. They don't get it. So let's I I certainly get it because I've I've in my own personal life I've done this. Can we talk a little bit about the nuances about why people would do that?

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

So logically, logically, even me, if a friend would tell me, I can easily say, I could have easily said even back then that this sounds like a bad idea. It's logically, you can understand that, you can rationalize that. But because your brain is like so stimulated and you have this amount of like oxytocin and dopamine that is triggered by the narcissist's love bombing, you just stop seeing things clearly. You know, it's like imagine if you have been starving for something and someone presents to you an unhealthy meal and you know that it's unhealthy, but you're starving. So you're probably gonna end up eating it.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yes, that's a great way of putting it. That's a great way of putting it. And maybe what the starvation is, you were not noticed, you were not seen, you were not validated, you were not valued. Usually, as a child, there is a childhood wound there. So to be seen so fully, to be received, to be just enamored so fully. I also think that there's this beautiful belief, because I don't want to demean the beliefs in true love. Okay, because there is a frequency match at the beginning. The narcissist is starving for you as much as you're starving for them. So there is a frequency, a starvation frequency match that feels so aligned. It does feel like a full chakra light up on both ends. And I want, let me let me make a real because I've been doing a series on psychic hits. Let me distinguish those. So sometimes when you say, I'm going to move in, you say to your friend, because I know this is the person for me, I know this is true love, right? We have to distinguish the difference between when we are unhealed and what it's hitting is a trauma bond of some sort, and when it's an actual inner higher consciousness voice that says red flag, red flag. And usually for for the audience, the red flag voice is more neutral. It's doesn't have a lot of urging or craving or longing or romance, even. It's more, it's just a tad more neutral. It has a more neutral voice. Would you agree with

Trauma Bonds Versus Inner Guidance

SPEAKER_01 13:45

that, Grace? Like, because it's both at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Yes. I like the way how you're describing it, and because it can be difficult to distinguish what's exactly happening. And it definitely felt genuine from his side. And I could see that he was also appreciating the intensity because he was also feeling magnetized towards me. It was it felt real even for him.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yes, yes, yes. There is a there is some realness in the mix of it all.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yes. It doesn't mean that it's healthy to go with it. It's just it feels real. Right, right, right, right. So we can take it back to to where we were talking about how we fall fall prey to to narcissists and they start with the love bombing. That can feel very intense in the beginning and can feel very juicy as well. Very good. However, after this phase passes, then they will start getting overwhelmed by the level of intimacy that's being reached, and they move towards the devaluation stage, it's called, where they will start pointing out imperfections and they will start belittling you, humiliating you, and it comes off as like the initial test to see whether you're going to stay or whether you're going to put up with their drama and abuse, and then continue the behavior, the dynamic from there. So a person who has worked on themselves already and has a healthy level of self-worth and self-esteem and knows how to get validation from within, not from outside, they would leave at that point. Right? It makes sense that when someone is mistreating us, we would leave the relationship. However, since at that point in my life I was still struggling with this, I internalized what he was saying, and I just became fixated on trying to be good enough for this person and trying to be better and make things work. And it becomes uh a loop. You're just like feeding this loop because after that, then he he discards you. There's the discarding stage where they completely abandon you. But then after some time, they decide to get back with you and nourish the relationship. And this can keep going on for years and years until you decide that it's it's it's enough, you've had enough.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yes. Grace, say a little bit more about the way you you phrase it was it can come off as the first test, but would you say that it is the test? Like it the narcissist is testing whether you'll take it. Exactly. That that it's an actual test. And there's a ton of testing. It is the first one.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Yes, yes, but there's a ton of testing, as as you're saying. And as I'm talking about this, even like different types of examples are popping up in my head, even with friends that I had to let go of by time, because I would realize that this behavior is unacceptable. And so I would rather be alone and not have that friend in my life instead of continuing this kind of dynamics. So this is why I put everything in one book, all the information that I gathered and the education that I got to make it easier for people. And it hopefully takes them less time and and less damage. Because when I understood the pattern, and then you can make sense out of it, you can see the pattern. Once you become aware of it, it's very difficult to unsee it. And now you're you know what's happening. You said it in the last podcast.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

You said it's actually quite scripted. And and I I think what's difficult is they it's really funny because when you're in it, you feel like it's unpredictable. When are they gonna love you? When are they gonna get mad? When like you feel like it's just this series of shocking events that leaves you as a deer in headlights all the time. So you're scrambling to defend and explain and try to be good enough and do all of these things in response to these tests.

Devaluation, Discard, And The Script

SPEAKER_01 18:18

But actually, once you know it, which is the impetus of the book, once you know that there's an actual pattern, there's an actual script, even the way they come back and they're seductive or they're scared or they miss you, it's you can see it. Now you can see it. So where it's not, it's pr completely predictable. Sometimes I find it a little boring to be honest. Like I just it's a little boring. It's like, wow, you really are not out of this, and you really think that I don't see this. It's it's it's interesting. So let me jump back about the not good enough, because that is the projection. There's a constant projection that the other is not good enough, and it works because you are told that you are triangulated, this idea of competing with others constantly. That's a big test. Like, are you who's gonna win me? Who's gonna fight for me? And you have to do all these hoof jumpings in order to win me. And that's that's it's like a hunger games. It's like a I mean, I'm laughing, but it's it's actually not funny at all. It's extremely devastating and painful. Maybe what makes us smile is is is actually seeing it now.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yes, no, I understand because even me sometimes as like as I'm going through these things and explaining things, I can laugh at them. But of course, at the time it was extremely painful, but we can laugh because we've done the work and we we can see how ridiculous this game actually is.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Well, and how much the not good enough was in them, how much the emptiness was in them, thus the need for constant supply. The unfillable, the unfilable, right? They they feel like they can't get enough of dopamine hits. Um the other test that is really important for those of you who are still in this relationship is sort of the ride or die. You will be called a quitter. I remember being called a quitter, even though I depleted all of me. And then there's a moment where you say, Yeah, I am. I'm quitting this.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

Yeah, and I should I wish that I quit it earlier, actually. It's okay to quit things in life if they're not working out, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yes, and a parent might call you a quitter. That you're not that ride or die person, and that is an actual real phrase because it can actually kill people. Yeah. But it really can, whether it's through them getting sick, digestive issues, cancers, isolation, severe isolation, mental health issues, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Yes, yes. I'm thinking now as we're speaking, which makes the third part, the the last part of the book so powerful and important, is that sometimes, most of the time, awareness is the first step, and it's not enough to cut off the relationships. It takes so much strength and inner work to be able to leave these kinds of relationships. I don't want to undermine and underestimate that just by learning and just by reading about these dynamics, it's going to be fine and easy, and now that's it, you're just gonna leave the narcissist. I think that it becomes easier the moment that we start really working on ourselves, on healing our wounds. So, first by through education, by understanding what's happening, but then we really need to take action and do the steps that some of them are mentioned in the book to really learn how to fill ourselves from within. And this void that you are talking about, that the narcissist experiences, but also we experience while we were together. We really learn, we need to learn how to fill this void and how to fill our own cup from within us. So the good things and the joy and the fulfillment and the purpose and the validation has to come from within you and not from the external world. Otherwise, you'll always be starving and seeking some kind of validation out there.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Would you say, Grace, like even in the book, now that I'm thinking, certainly I teach this and preach this. That journey in is hard. Right? Everything for me is the inner journey, every single possible thing is the inner journey. But those I say to people and I encourage them, those first layers are hard because you do have to revisit childhood wounds, you do have to see your own emptiness. This is where we're aligned, where we're aligned with the narcissist. I always say that the origin story is very similar. There's one very severe or multiple traumatic events that

Healing Starts With Education

SPEAKER_01 23:45

include maybe abuse, but definitely abandonment and neglect. That's where the empath or the or the or the person who's with the narcissist, that's where they align, actually. And it's a sense of emptiness. How they deal with it is different. That that's really the parting point is how they deal with it. And for certainly for the person who's trying to heal, that going in is difficult because you have to, would you agree, have to get through those layers of seeing where you were abandoned, where you feel deeply alone, where you feel less than, where you don't feel good enough.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Yes, yeah, exactly. And yeah, certain repressed memories or emotions that our subconscious has been protecting us from, things that we couldn't see because we were not ready to see and understand. So we would be in denial of certain things in life or certain circumstances or emotions that have been trapped in our body, in our nervous system. And it can be really, it feels really threatening to our nervous system to learn how to sit and process these uncomfortable emotions that have been sitting there for probably decades.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes. What would you recommend with that? I know that you did some work with healers or healer or yoga because it it is a holistic process. It can't just be intellectual at all.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

It's a holistic process. Yes. Honestly, I I really made a commitment to myself. It's been years now that I've been working on myself. And I made myself the most important project in my life, taking it seriously, because I understood that I couldn't keep walking into the direction that I was walking in. It's so worth it to invest in yourself because the quality of your life is just going to improve, not just in relationships, but in every aspect of your life, whether it's financially, with friends, everything, your your hobbies, your passions, because your light starts radiating from within you, and that light cannot radiate if it's clouded by traumas and sicknesses. So I've done a lot of work through Jungian psychoanalysis and also holistic kind of work, like somatic healing and releasing, like through yoga, ecstatic dancing, sound healing as well, a special type of massage, it's called lomi lomi, Hawaiian massage. These are all somatic practices and therapies that really work on your fascia to help you release stored emotions that were in your body. And this is like scientifically proven. So it's not just a spiritual boo-boo talk. Maybe some reader listeners will think that it's like that. These have been scientifically proven that the body stores trauma.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Oh, yes. For anyone who feels that, you want to pick up the book The Body Keeps a Score by Bessel Vanderkoel, and who is the GOAT, he's the OG on trauma who has studied it since the beginning of last century with World War I veterans, and how trauma has become a topic in the last century, and now we're peaking, we're peaking on the trauma discussion. I always say there's no excuses anymore. We can find this. But anyone who knows trauma, gabor Mate, but Bessel van der Koch is the one who talks about regulating your central nervous system, hot yoga in particular, yoga, massage, aesthetic dance, because we've got to shake it out of our body. What happens is our body stays frozen. Anyway, one of our conversations on the other channel will go into why all of these somatic practices are so helpful directly. Yeah, it's not woo at all, actually. Grace? Yeah. Would you say that in this process of cleaning out what I call the top layers? I say to people, go ahead and be scared. The top layers are hard. But once you get through them, don't do it alone either. But you start finding that's when the quieter I like to say, the cleaner we are inside.

Somatic Work And Nervous System Care

SPEAKER_01 28:30

That's when we can start really making what I call deposits. Self-esteem deposits and loving deposits into the self. Would you say that being alone for a period of time is necessary in order to begin this healing process?

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yes, yes, absolutely. We we talk about it in the book, actually, as well, in the last part of the book, where I give tips and steps on how to build a relationship with yourself. And um they I call it like dating yourself because that's really what you need to do to get to know yourself. Most probably people who have been with narcissists spend so much time investing on other relationships and neglect the relationship with themselves. It's so important because we have this tendency to be the carer and the nurturer. If you're gonna get into another relationship quickly, you're gonna one come with a lot of emotional baggage that needs to be healed. It's not even fair on the other person. There's a high chance that the pattern will be repeated if you haven't done the inner work yet. And so you owe this to yourself, this time alone to heal, to be with yourself, to get to know what you like, what you don't like, what are your values in life, which direction you want to go. You have this this kind of time where you're you need to go when you Cocoon in the dark in solitude. Of course, it's important to have a support system and surround yourself with people who have good intentions for you because isolating yourself isn't a very good idea, especially if you're when you're dealing with trauma. And there are a lot of narcissistic abuse support groups as well that people can join so they can uh connect with other people that can understand them. But yeah, you we owe this sacred time to ourselves to dedicate and work on the relationship with ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

So one of the things that I like to add to what you're saying is, and you know, one of my expertises is being an empath or a highly sensitive, you just be aware that you have an impulsivity. It's like an immediate habit to respond outside of yourself in order to save, to care, to fix. It's it's an actual, it's like a compulsive behavior. If you're even on the bus, you might compulsively be helping others. So, in order to tame or to quiet, and sometimes even to reverse that compulsion, because if that was you and your family, you're gonna be that with the narcissist for you sure, which is why it's a match. But if you move quickly or if you start to notice, I would invite everyone to notice this right now, that you just impulsively will solve a situation, we'll fix it, we'll be monitoring the room. It's an actual survival, it's a coping mechanism. Part of the that impulsivity and that compulsion is to survive the environments that you're in, especially the dangerous and attacking and demeaning environment of being around a narcissist, uh, a volatile person, an abusive person. Even a silent person. Because the narcissist can punish you with silence. Oh, yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and so you compulsively try to fill it in or do a lot of the work to make things okay. So this sacred time that Grace is talking about about being alone is also to start managing those impulsivities and compulsivities to reverse those habits, to actually have those sacred pauses to say, I don't need to respond to this right now. Grace, this is something I didn't say in the last, and I really remember this. There's a part in your book where you talk about the time right after you left him. I just it struck me so powerfully where you said you had Netflix in front of you and you didn't even know you liked anyone.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Yes, you literally could not choose what to watch

Choosing Solitude To Rebuild Self

SPEAKER_02 33:10

on Netflix.

SPEAKER_04 33:12

Yes, that was shocking for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

I was shocked, and and it wasn't just because there were so many things to watch, it was literally you no longer had any idea what your urge was. So that's how powerful the psychic dismemberment becomes.

SPEAKER_04 33:31

Oh, yes, yes. I remember that moment, and I I realized that I was so disconnected from myself and that I didn't have a sense of self anymore. No sense of identity, what I like, what I don't like, and I didn't know who I was. And it's so scary to navigate the world like that, to make choices. You have to make choices every day, you know. So you can easily end up making the wrong choices if you don't know what's good for you, what your needs are, what your interests are. And this part of myself has been neglected for so many years that I needed to develop that. And to develop that, yes, I needed to be alone. And as I think you're the first person that made me aware of this impulse that you're talking about. It really felt when you mentioned this word to me, I really became aware that it is an impulse, actually. I can feel it even in my body. It's like you go forward even. Try to help someone. It's like you can't help it.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

It's like your body. The impulse is so in it's like a compulsion, which is why when I talk about grounding for empaths or highly sensitives or people who've been in narcissistic, I always say I want you to first, your first step is to lean back. Like be in your sit in your body throughout I call it, lean back because we're always doing this. And Grace, every time like I think you know, talking to you just is so stimulating. And I guess maybe it's because we're we connect on seeing this, but I always say that the the freest human is the choosing human. And so the first thing that's taken away is your choice and your decision making, which by the way, is true for governments who take that away from a populace. That's when you know that there's a narcissistic system at hand, really, or at a job or in a family or in a cult, is the first thing that goes away is your ability to choose and your ability to make decisions. And then you don't know who you are.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Yeah, that's that's so powerful because you can see how this dynamic ripples out through different systems, even not just one-to-one relationships.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Grace, can you say something to folks about who are afraid to be alone? Is there any words you can give them? Because we know that place too. About how did you do that? How could you go find this alone place? What comes to mind with?

SPEAKER_04 36:21

That's a very good question. Because I I do remember a time where I used to really fear being alone, and now I just traveled alone, I live by myself and I by choice, and I really love and enjoy spending time with myself. But to come to that, it's really facing that fear and exploring what what do you think? What are you scared of really? Why are why are you scared of being alone? And trying to understand yourself with a sense of curiosity and openness. And understanding that before you face this and before you overcome it, it's not going to go away by itself. You're just gonna get worse because you're gonna keep hanging out with the wrong people, whether it be friends, and you're gonna keep making the wrong choices just to avoid this. And also, I really wanted to do, I had plans then like dreams that I wanted to achieve in my life, and I was waiting for people to to do these dreams, and I realized that if I'm not gonna meet someone that is aligned with my dreams, I'm gonna miss out on them. So I need to take responsibility and make my things happen by myself, and really working on building a sense of security and inner trust.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

So beautiful. And look at you now. It's almost like at the center of the dynamic. There's a few centers, but let's go with this right now. First, the deep loneliness, the aloneness wound is what gets us into these situations. And again, as you say, Grace, it's not always just a narcissist, it might be a friend. That that fear of being alone is one of

Reclaiming Choice And Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 38:20

the original wounds that leads us to sort of be open to anything, to anything. And anyone who wants to land us. Okay, so this is something that's worth working on no matter what. Because the other thing is the narcissist, this is one of their biggest points of exploitation. They will exploit it, they will remind you that only them can love how defective you are over and over and over. You will be told, and this includes from parents, that you are nothing without them and that no one out there will love you. And not only that, one of the tactics is to actually isolate you. By the way, that's what cults do. They start to isolate you from the rest of the world. That's what nations do. They start to isolate you from other nations. Okay, so little by little, the exploitation of I am alone and I'm scared of being alone is really it's a very precise thing. Uh, and it's also a projection because they have a profound, even more than the empath or the highly sensitive or the other person, even more than them of this sense of being. What I saw in the book about you, and I think this does happen to a lot of people, is the enough feeling. So the question of, weren't you afraid of being alone? The answer might be yes. But I, but this was horrible. I couldn't bear it anymore. There's an enough. I've had enough. I must leave. I must run for the woods, I must go to the shelter, whatever. Yes?

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yes, exactly. Yes. It's like you realize that you can't keep going in that in that direction because you're gonna keep suffering. It's just gonna keep getting worse and worse. And you being alone didn't stop being scary. It just the current situation was even worse than being alone. And I remember actually, I just had a memory now coming up of an episode where I I remember I described a tragic event that happened with me when we were traveling. It was one of the most tragic moments and traumatic moments that I had. And when I went back alone to my country and he stayed there when we were traveling, and I remember that for the first time in my life, I was having breakfast alone in a restaurant overlooking the sea, and the silence felt so beautiful and peaceful. And I was like, oh my God, thank God for the first time in years, I can eat without being bullied, without hearing belittling comments, without hearing how useless I am, and all the poisonous words that he used to project on me. And I realized, wow, actually being alone is not that bad after all.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yes, I'm so glad you mentioned the I could feel it, this the sweetness.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

It's like finding a treasure chest of some sort. Of and when you describe it, breakfast in front of the sea. And Grace, I would add, not just demeaning you, because for some of you, you might recognize it. It's demeaning the waiter. It's being so angry at the restaurant, it's that the food is terrible, like this constant problem-seeking moods. It's too hot. Like it's not just you, it's just this constant dissatisfaction because the moods are so intense as well.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

That's so true. Yeah, that's so true. It's like everything is wrong with the world, not with them, but everything is wrong with the world.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yes, yes, and you will hear it. You will hear. I just love that memory. I'm so glad it. What a gift, right? These little glimmers, these little gifts that are messagings, are messages. It's a friend. I remember, and I'll I'll share this right now, but Grace has a lot more detail in the book. Please pick up the book, folks, because her writing is just so exquisite. You're really transported to these places. Grace, I have this memory, and I want people to really notice this of a cousin from Colombia visiting me because I'm half Colombian. And he was with us for maybe two weeks. He was moving to the United States and he was gonna start off in our home. And he was helping me with errands. I had a few moments with family members who loved

Grief, Cognitive Dissonance, And Closure

SPEAKER_01 43:00

me. And he said something that felt so harsh, but I'll never forget it. Because it was one of my like, and I defended against it when he said it. He said prima, which means cousin, prima. I've never seen you this unkempt. But he was soft, it was worried. It wasn't like I've never seen, he was like, I've never descuidada is the word in Spanish. And descuidada literally means untaken care of. And I said, and he said, Are you okay? Oh, and it was sweet. And I was like, What are you talking about? You know, like I love me, you know, like just very defensive, but it hicks because it was so soft. I could, I could vibrationally feel how loving and worried, and he was pointing to something like I've never, what's going on? And for folks listening, there will be outside people who will say these things, who will say something's off. I don't like this even. I don't like the way this person treats you. And you will defend against it because you're having to protect all sorts of things, including your own ego, right? Would do you do you do you remember this, Grace? People telling you?

SPEAKER_04 44:21

Oh, yes. So many people, yes. And I mentioned different episodes in the book where people were pointing out to me. It was so obvious, even on a physical level, it just shows.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

Yes, it shows. It shows. And for folks who've stayed there because of the fear of aloneness, we really want you to hear this. Because some people don't hit the enough button. Yeah. Or you hit it and you press snooze on it, and it keeps getting louder, it keeps getting worse, and you keep hitting snooze. Um and you're self-sacrificing in a big, big, big way. So there are resources, people, groups, books like this one, where you can go and find support. Yeah? Tell me why you're smiling, Grace, when I say that.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

No, because it's um so beautiful, and I'm thinking about my journey and the freedom that I found and the joy that I have in my life, that I wish it to every listener right now who is experiencing this and is in this kind of situation, and I'm just wishing them energetically to realize that they're more capable than they can imagine. You just have to allow yourself to surprise yourself and realize that you're actually more capable than what you imagined. But you gotta allow yourself to experience that and take the leap of faith.

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Grace, would you say that your life is full of choice now?

SPEAKER_05 46:07

Yes, full of joy.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

Full of light, full of joy. Of course, life is not perfect, it comes with ups and downs, right? I don't want to give this fake image that my life is perfect, but I feel free and I make my own choices, and I've transformed from a very codependent, scared girl to an independent woman that left even her her family and lives abroad alone without family and made her own life. And for so many years, I never thought that this would be possible. And I thought that I needed another person to latch on to survive, whether it's for emotional support, financial support, but it's just an illusion. And I want the people to know that this is an illusion. And if it was possible for me, it's possible for them as well. And it's so liberating to be able to make your own choices and not being controlled and manipulated and bullied by someone, and even allowing yourself to voice your opinions because for so many years, you know, abuse thrives in silence, and for so many years the narcissist used to tell me to keep things private because it was not okay to share what was happening, and it's always, you know, suffocating my my voice and making me feel ashamed even of what's happening. And it's just so freeing now to have my own self-expression and creativity that's radiating in different uh aspects of my life.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yes, yes, it's so, so, so true. You know, at some point I want to talk about how there's cultural codependence. Like this starts early on, because some cultures were actually raised to be very codependent, literally raised to be codependent. And also how families, the language, the culture of the family itself. So we just move from one place to another. So it's it's very powerful. And these can be some of the conversations that you and I are having on the channel, on the Healing from Narcissistic Abuse channel. Just how this isn't just something between two people. And this idea, it's so powerful. Um it's very interesting don't tell anyone. And the message there is because you'll betray me, you'll abandon me. You're a huge traitor. And I want to remind folks that from in certain cultures, this has changed since the pandemic. I've been tracking it. Cultures like the Latino culture, like my own, the Asian culture, black culture, black Americans, um, where you

Community, Next Steps, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 49:00

don't reveal, you don't reveal your wounds, your dirty laundry, your trauma for all sorts of historical reasons. That's true, by the way, because it did make us vulnerable to other cultures. So we get it. But what ends up happening is that you end up suffering alone a lot and not being able to be mirrored or reflected in other spaces that have had more healing. So I really want to remind folks of that, that that it's um this idea of you will be betraying me or you will be betraying us if you go anywhere outside of us to talk about this suffering.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

Yes, that's how it felt like absolutely that I was betraying um him if I was sharing what was happening.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

And if you're kind-hearted, you actually genuinely feel it. You don't want to betray their vulnerability.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

You actually try to protect them if anything, no? You try to protect their fragile ego, if anything.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Yes. Well, Greece, we're coming up to the to the last minutes of this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Can you look at your list and see if there's anything that you would have wanted to say more about today? I mean, I you know we could go hours on this.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

We can go hours and hours, and we will, we will on the other channel. But on the other channel, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Yeah. I think to end this, it's also important to mention that this is a very important step in the process. Allowing ourselves to grieve and and letting go, it takes time. Because when you're ending a relationship with a narcissist, it's really difficult for your brain to understand that this person, that the this idealized projection that they gave you is not real. And for me, this was so difficult to process that the person that I loved was actually an illusion. He did not exist. It felt like someone died, literally, like because this person is not real, and that takes time to grieve and and let go. It takes it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Just love that you brought that up. Because it's not just inside the relationship, it's the leaving of the relationship that takes ridiculous amounts of courage. But then the last part is this chapter, it isn't profound and deep and hard chapter of grief, not just of the illusion. I find that what's shocking, and the it's like a de-layering. You're de-layering this person who's gotten so in the layers that they've gotten into, it's all the way to your soul, to your heart, to your everyday life, to your belief system. I mean, the layers to your belief, to your emotions. What was hard for me, and I repeat it over and over in the Empath Leader book, but in this book, everywhere, is the cruelty. You're shocked that the person you love is actually quite cruel. Yeah, and I think cruelty is always shocking. The bully always shocks us, the dictator shocks us. It's and that's a logical thing for kind-hearted humans, by the way, everyone. It's very, very illogical. Grace, you used the phrase cognitive dissonance last time when people are cruel. It's not how most humans are hardworked. Because that's one of part of the delay. Because the whole time you might have been seeing it like, well, he's traumatized, you see their point of view, he's hurt too, he fears loneliness too. You see so much of their point of view until you realize, oh their response to all of that is to be cruel to me.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

Yes, exactly. That's gonna be very hard to process. Yes. So, yeah, we need to allow ourselves some time to to grieve and move through it with with grace.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

With grace being.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

With this awesome grace being who is so grateful and so generous with how how much she shares in the book. Grace, truly, what a gift you are and what a treasure this book is for all of us, because this this is this is gonna reach many, many hearts. And so we're really gonna invite everyone to to not only join us, Grace and I, on a on a channel that's gonna be all about this book, all about going through these topics, and hopefully you will find yourself mirrored, reflected, supported. If you want to see two examples of people who are living their best life, yes, and living with a ton of choice and a ton of freedom. Here we are, and we're here to talk about it and share. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 54:17

It's an honor, Claudia. It's such an honor, really, walking this journey by your side.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Thank you so much, thank you so much. Okay, so join us on the other channel, and we'll see you again.