AI Made Marketing Easier… So Why Is It Harder to Stand Out? With Dan Klein

AI is changing everything in marketing… but not in the way most people think.

In this episode, we sat down with Dan Klein to break down what’s actually happening behind the scenes as AI floods the market with content, and why so many businesses are starting to blend together instead of stand out.

We talk about the real opportunity most companies are missing: using AI to increase efficiency while doubling down on what makes you human.

Because the truth is… AI isn’t your competitive advantage anymore. It’s the baseline.

Keypoints & Chapter Markers:

• 00:00 – The AI shift: why everything is starting to look the same
• 04:08 – Efficiency vs pricing: the real growth lever
• 09:09 – Standing out when everyone sounds identical
• 13:45 – Why imperfect content performs better
• 20:10 – Scaling with simplicity (not more services)
• 29:59 – The future: human-first marketing in an AI world

Connect with Dan:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-klein-mba-168a0410/

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About The Hosts:

• Tim & Cindy Dodd are the Co-founders of PEMA.io, based out of Miami, FL. Connect with Tim and Cindy on LinkedIn and Instagram:
  • Tim’s LinkedIn, Tim’s Instagram
  • Cindy’s LinkedIn, Cindy’s Instagram

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Transcript

00:06

Welcome to The Takeover with Tim and Cindy, where we show you how to dominate your market.  Let's get winning.

00:15

Welcome back to The Takeover. Today I am very excited  for the guests because we are talking all things AI and marketing. Right now it is a wild  time to be an entrepreneur, to be in marketing, to be in sales because  AI is advancing technology and  in one side making jobs  easier and easier and easier. But on the other side, it's making the market so noisy and so much of it is starting to look  more polished, more perfect and all starting to sound the same.

00:45

And today we're going to dive into  different philosophies, ideas, and really concepts  behind how to use AI and marketing in a way that actually makes you sound, look, feel different,  and break out in your market. So let's go ahead and jump on in.  All right, well, welcome to the show, Dan Klein. Hello, good afternoon. It's great to have you, man, because I know when we first met, um

01:14

You're doing some,  and you still are doing some really cool stuff with uh marketing and social media,  using a lot of new technologies that are really making uh this efficient. Because I used to be back in the day, I mean, you'd have to spend a ton of money to have somebody doing all your social accounts good. you would, know, some of the stuff that was like, we're the all in one, wasn't very good quality stuff. I think our audience is gonna really be  interested to hear.

01:42

what you're doing, how you're doing it, and just some of the techniques you have. So why don't you just give us a little bit of overview of what you're doing with your product and how you're seeing it affect companies. Yeah, absolutely. So the landscape of marketing, and especially digital marketing, has dramatically transformed over the last few years, as we would all agree and we've seen. And what I decided to do was to use that technology and to really look at every piece of technology as a tool.

02:12

Like, how can I use this screwdriver? How can I use this wrench? And what that's done is it's enabled our company to really provide what we do very efficiently.  And so I noticed there was an easier way to do things. I noticed that it costed us less to actually do things. And what I decided to do was break the model and kind of share that cost savings with our clients. many,  clients that we get pay two, three, four times more than what we charge them.

02:41

um And what we tend to do is we focus on the biggest lever things that we can do for someone. And then we look to say, know, strategically, how can we accomplish that? um And what's the most efficient way to get things done without the fluff?  And I think that that's benefited our clients really well.  What's interesting about that is I think there's a lot of people that talk about like, hey, like, your rates, raise your rates, raise your rage. But I think when you look at  companies that like scale big,

03:11

they actually decrease their internal costs so that they can offer more value for less. And it's not a race to the bottom of who can be the cheapest.  How can I become more efficient? How can I become more profitable so that I can deliver even more value for more profit for me and less cost for the clients?  And I think that's when you obsess over that,  just the market landscape that we're in right now, if you're not doing that  as an agency,

03:38

I mean, you're about to get beat pretty bad because there's so much  technology on the market that's allowing other people that are going to come in and play the price game to beat you. so I think it's a, what made you really think about that, that this, overall philosophy of like, how can I, how can I deliver this for less? Cause I mean, you saw the technology, where did you kind of see the problem and decided like, Hey, let me, let me go out and fix this for people. Yeah.  Where I actually came up with us was in my past corporate life.

04:08

before I started my agency about 10 years ago. And so I was on the other end of an agency. I was the client.  And I noticed a lot of companies would come in. I saw what they did. I saw what they created. I saw what they would choose to measure. um And I saw a gap there.  And so, you know, the thinking to myself was, hey, I can build a better mousetrap here. I can build something from a client's perspective.

04:34

in what we measure, what we create, and truly align ourselves with our clients. So our clients, I think they think of us more as partners because we're valuing every dollar that they spend on their marketing and looking for some type of return on that rather than just creating collaterals and pieces, not being able to substantiate what the returns are. Yeah, it's because it's, mean, a lot of social media companies are that. They're like, hey, look at us.

05:03

the likes and  the comments we got in here,  it's like really at the end of the day, it's like people get excited about that upfront,  but there's different, it's like, okay, that's cool, but then now where's my pipeline? Okay, now the pipeline that I have has that converting or depending on the kind of clients you have, if you're doing like  local like home improvement companies, it's like, they wanna see that there's gonna be a grace time where they're gonna be like, okay, this is great, we're investing, we're seeing the right traction, but there is always becomes a point in time where

05:33

Retention comes about like, is there an ROI happening? Is there a win-win situation? So when you think of delivering on that promise, retaining, upselling, what's your overall kind of thought on how you retain, how you upsell, how you make a client feel like they're getting awesome value for their investment? Yeah, our model is if it was like a big circle, the client's in the middle.

06:01

Rather than you know all the marketing channels in the middle it so we first start with the client and we diagnose You know listening to the client and hearing their language because they might not say as clearly as some clients do You know because they might not know what they what they really would would view as a goal  and so we listen very carefully oh We do a lot of research on whichever market they're in their competitors the language other competitors are looking are using

06:29

And we put a lot of thought into it and then come to them with some some thoughtful solutions as far as okay here from our perspective based on what you've told us here's what we think would be the more higher lever things for you to focus on and you know I think the trap marketers fall into or have fallen to in the past is like okay let's redo your website let's you know work on some blogs or you know this and that and I'm not saying any of that's bad

06:53

At the end of the day, think our clients if we hear from a client look the biggest thing for us is to bring in a new client then we're gonna we're gonna strategize on how to do that how to meet that  and you know, Someone's website might be okay and that's okay. We don't really need to invest the time in that We really just need to focus on what would generate that client some growth Yeah, good. I mean so when it comes to website sometimes good enough is good enough

07:21

I used to run an SEO company and we would get really basic websites for lawyers and  plumbers and roofers.  We get basic websites ranking and they got a lot of business from it.  Yet there's these fancy websites that you do website rebuild, but if you're not doing the right marketing, the right traffic generation, it doesn't really matter. It's like  trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist yet, right? Because an update of a website should be like, okay, we have

07:51

a ton of traffic and it's not converting. We need to update the website. shouldn't be like, we don't have any traffic, let's update the website. so what kind of like walk me through some of the different strategies that you think through when you're growing, when you're getting a client results. Like what does that look like digging in with a client, setting out strategy and next steps?

08:14

Yeah, I would say there's a lot of psychology in it. So depending on whether it's a B2B or B2C company, we look at their audience and then we figure out to  the best that we can uh how to attract that audience.  What I think regular consumers,  if you're just a consumer of information right now and not a business owner looking at it that way, people see over 2000 ads a day  and  most people don't even realize they're looking at ads at the moment.

08:42

in that kind of maze of confusion,  what we'd like to do is try to distill that down for a business owner and say, how can we separate you from your competitors? That's why the competitive research is the most important part  and the foundational part for how we work with someone. So what are your competitors doing? Where are they attracting clients? And how can you be different? And that's where we start. That's where we start. So there's a little buyer psychology in there of  my...

09:09

what might get someone's interest and you know, so, and that would lead to the tactics of how do we provide some value before the sale? How do we provide some value to someone who could be a potential client to at least look different and provide some value before they even talk to them? How would you differentiate because there's like two concepts when you're doing great marketing and sales. It's like, if something's proven, like success leaves clues. If you see some competitors, they're a

09:37

they're doing absolutely well, their funnel, their pages, their messaging. If you can get insights to that, it's like, well, let me replicate that and move it. But then there's also that sounding different, you know, and that's a big thing for us is like, okay, success leaves clues, but also like if everybody's doing this thing and we start doing it here, we're gonna cut through that noise, because it's gonna look sound, feel different, even if that little difference is minuscule.  How do you see kind of the...

10:06

Where do you leverage what is proven in the market with what you're seeing with their competitors are doing versus like now how do I differentiate from that? Yeah, that's a great question. So we can see what someone's competitors are doing, but we don't necessarily know if they're producing results.  So, you know, we start there  and you know, we look at them.  We look at that like if as if we were into, uh you know, would we respond to something? And I think the, you know,

10:33

The short answer to that question is we test some stuff out.  It's just generating some ideas on our team and saying, okay, let's do some quick tests.  What's some messaging we can put out there that might be differentiating and then let's test it out  and see if we do get some responses for it. Or how can we show uh credibility and how can we show that someone really is uniquely different in a particular industry  and get someone's attention?  The challenge right now, I think, for

11:02

marketers and consumers  is you have people saying all the same things  and  Not that they can even fulfill on them.  Let's leave that part over there. It's  saying the same things So as a consumer if I may I would say I would call consumer in this case the client that the business owner as the business owner How do you know how do you know that one program is even better than another without testing it out and trying it?

11:27

and then use that logic for the actual end client, whether it's B2B or B2C, like how can you convey that to someone? How do you convey something that's different?  And what we usually end up with  are just tactics that are  a little out of the box.  And, you know,  I'm a big believer in out of the box ideas, at least to test them out. So test out a message, test out a  mechanism that's just a little different. Yes.

11:53

Well, and that's, I love that you said the testing of the mechanism because it's like, is that, there is a, if anybody knows the levels of awareness, right? If somebody's not problem aware, your marketing is, hey, let's talk about the problem and then tease a solution. If they're already problem aware, then you pitch the solution. If they're already solution aware, that's where most, I think most people are battling is the entire market is solution aware. So it's like they've.

12:19

heard the same promise. You know, I remember when I started LinkedIn back in 2015 or whatever, when I was doing this thing, was like, no one even knew that you could get clients on LinkedIn. I thought that was a resume site. In 2018, we trained like 10,000 people how to do it. And it was just like, you could sell anybody immediately, because it was like, they didn't even know that this platform existed. But then you start seeing it like,

12:48

Okay, the promise was I can get you one in 10 meetings a month. And then more competitors came in, I'll get you 20 to 30. And then you started seeing these, we'll get you 150 meetings a month or in a Ferrari Lamborghini in 90 days, or you don't get 40. And there becomes this part where you're yelling louder and louder and louder and louder. And sometimes it just is making that one shift with that mechanism where it's like, hey, we actually, we're doing things, know, the old way of doing things was this, and that's probably why it failed.

13:18

We started doing it like this and that's why it's working. so sometimes it's not about yelling louder. A lot of times it's not about yelling louder, especially if there's a lot of over-promising in the industry.  It's about finding what's that unique different way that people go, oh, that's kind of a unique way to solve the problem that I hadn't thought about before. Yeah,  absolutely,  absolutely. And then I think in today's environment, it's how do you tell that story  differently than others? And I'll give you one example. So,

13:45

You see higher quality videos, higher, and even me, got my,  I'm just on a couch in my office, I got my black background, but you see higher quality um things coming out and then you don't know if it's AI or not or whatever. We've gone to some lower quality. Shoot it with an iPhone, make yourself real. If you're trying to differentiate yourself as a business owner, let people see you  in a way that they can relate to. Yeah, you're shooting with an iPhone and you've got a funny background and that's good.

14:13

That works because it's not as high quality and high polish, which makes it stand out actually. Interesting. it's a, it's in a world where everything more polish is getting so much easier to do. It's like the non polish makes it feel human.  Absolutely. Yeah. Just a little different. Yeah. It's like the, so  a friend of mine, he's, she's been on the podcast and he's a client, a client as well. And he does, uh,

14:42

He has like this factory, this warehouse of robot hands that will write out handwritten letters. he, you know, so it's like direct mail, like  not like printed out like, but like written out with all these variances. So like, looks completely like a real human and the response rates they get on these things compared to other direct mail is like, it's insane.  I imagine he's never taken a client on that wasn't like, Oh my gosh, this got an amazing.

15:08

Amazing return and the guy his business is doing incredibly well. And it's just like. It was taking a robot and an AI and a tool and good  and making it feel human.  Yes, makes all that difference. So mean, it's right now  it's there's so much ambiguity. Like am I talking to an AI? Like is this podcast written in a AI? Right? Exactly. Yeah. So much. It's like  the imperfections. It sounds like.

15:34

And those little differences in the nuances in the handwriting and then the video make it feel  real. So I mean, do you feel like as a marketer, how do you feel like that's going to evolve over the next one, two, three years?  like when it becomes even more  like interesting, how do you  distinguish between real and fake? Yeah, I think in going forward, that's where you can actually differentiate. And um

16:04

With this, you so you've got AI, you've got these tools, right? We've got more tools than we need right now, quite honestly, to do what we need to do or for a business owner to really get their name out there. The challenge is everyone's using it. I'll give you an example that's not related to marketing at all. So navigation, GPS in your car. So, you know, I use Waze, it's fair, you know, whatever. And so what I do is I don't follow it.

16:31

And at times and the reason why is because if you're following a navigation system Everyone's going the same way everyone's on the sink because everyone's following the navigation system  So I live in New York and and you know, they're side roads for everything around here Oh, this is what this is why you know the game of when to follow and not to follow exactly. Yeah, exactly So there's so I know when not to follow so there's there's two roads like two main roads in this one instance I'm thinking  and  the navigation systems for everyone will tell everyone to go on one road

17:02

So what do I do? I go on the other road and it's empty. That's how I would equate this to marketing. It's so many people are just blindly following the technology now or experimenting with the same technology. They're all going down the same path. So that's why what we do, what we look forward with our clients is what's just a little different because that could be the magic formula. Well, go left here versus right here  in New York, that could be two hours difference.

17:31

Easily,  easily, especially for I'm in Long Island,  getting off the island. That's the thing, that's an hour difference in your  car ride. Yeah. That's wild. And you know, it's a really wild time that we live in right now. mean, it's just  so exciting, um but it is. One thing I was noticing in my emails, in my Gmail account,  it is now doing all this stuff trying to get me to write a certain way. Yes.

17:59

And I thought through this, like one thing that has done very well for me over the years is when people read my copywriting, they're like, it feels very human, I'm very short, I'm like, there's just the way I do it. And what I noticed is all the corrections it was trying to make me do,  it was like, oh, if I follow these corrections, I'm actually gonna lose my humanness. Like not just for this one email, but over time, the AI is gonna, is training everybody to sound the same. So all the,

18:28

emails coming from Gmail are going to start sounding like all the same person. All the emails coming from Microsoft and Outlook are going to all sound like the same person.  And it's almost like the tools are training everybody, like a herd, to all look and sound the same. that lesson of, hey, I'm actually going to not take the advice, which was what I did in Gmail. I don't listen to any of the  edit sessions anymore at all.  I tried,  I could probably turn them off, but I haven't done it yet.  And so that sounds like,

18:58

like the same kind of concept of like as we move into this next,  like as we keep evolving, pay attention to what the machines are telling everybody to do and how to do it and  find the other lane as it were. Yes, I completely agree. you know, some, you know, one kind of example about that is we actually put mistakes sometimes in our ads on purpose.  And, you know,  it's again, counter logic.

19:26

So if we use the wrong word or a wrong type of phrase or something like that, people will get responses. They're like, hey, I liked your ad, but this part's a little wonky. Awesome. Let's talk to you about my business.

19:41

Interesting because because an AI is not gonna make that it that problem. No, they're like, oh, it shows that a human did it. Yeah Wow, that's cool. Well, let's make a little bit of a shift man I got cuz we could talk about AI all day long. Oh, when you're thinking about growth Well, what's your mindset around growth? Like when you're thinking? Okay, like I've got this company I want to scale it I know and you and I have talked out outside of this context about you know, you've got some pretty dang big goals and

20:10

Feel free to them or not share them either way is cool, but I just want to I know your goals are pretty massive. Yeah, you think of scale.  What are your what's your thought process for that?  My thought process in that is to be really clear about the types of clients where we want to work with  and also what we can offer. So we you know,  and we've adjusted our business  in that, you know, most agencies have a pretty big menu of what they offer and.

20:37

What we've done in my agency is we've kind of whittled that down. So we'll give someone some advice that maybe they weren't looking for.  you know, want to read, like a website, great example. Like I really want to redo my website. I want to put tons of effort into having that. We may steer them away from that. eh Not because we don't  want to do it or we don't want the business, but  it's expensive, it's time consuming,  it takes weeks to really get it right. And if we started something that's a little more high leverage for that person,

21:06

We know we can get results from that. Even if we're at a lower price point. So we're actually saying, don't do that. You could do that if you want, but we're going to encourage you not to. So what we've done is we have a very focused menu of what we offer. Right now we're focused much more on lead generation, digital advertising, communications, so posts, putting together very thoughtful content. Because if you have good content, you'll get the views. People will, and the...

21:33

platforms will share that if it's good enough content. So what we've done is  we've created that menu, but then offered it at a price that we know is workable for people, especially in this economy. So we want to be able to work with someone and bring them in so they can see what  we do. And that's why our goals are so big. So we want to work with a few thousand more people.  And  when an agency says that, a typical agency wouldn't be able to say that.

21:59

because it's, you can't do a whole lot for that many people. That's why we focus on just very important things that we think would really help that business. Yes. And there's a couple of guys I know down in Brazil. They've got 8,000 clients, active clients.  They're small. They're in Brazil and they actually have like franchise owners that kind of run territories and they're coming to the U.S. and they're managing the whole U.S. Excellent. But it is

22:30

It is wild. You you can't do a million things for them, but like these guys, bought, they created a really good technology. They run primarily, they're running ads, you know, they'll for local businesses, they'll set you up with your social ads, your paid ads, all this stuff. And they've got a really good program. They built a software technology behind it, but it really is that they're not trying to do the website and do a million things. They're like, okay, we're to plug in. Here's the system, easy to replicate, easy to scale, simple, repeat, repeat, repeat. And it works.  And

22:59

you know, simplicity scales. in the moment, like it's, could be like, you know, if I'm, if I'm a roofer and then the person asks me to, to, to mow the lawn, well, I can go out and buy a motor and make some money now. But it's like, no, I've got a mower and I'm a roofer. It's like, what do I do? And so I really think that focus, it, can be a challenge to get to that point though, right? Like it could be the, there's a challenge of like, okay, mistake I see people make too. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on,

23:28

and on this is mistake people make is that they're like, okay, they do some research, they ask Chatch CPT on their niche that they should go after and the offer they should give them. And then they like, oh, here's my niche, here's my offer, that's it. With no testing. And a lot of times I say, it's like, actually, until you have a proven lane, go broad, go broad with your industry, go a little bit broader with your offer. And then when you find that combination that just clicks, then you double down.

23:57

When  you think of that  niching versus going broad, because you  do have to niche on some areas  to scale up, how do you think through that?  It's so funny because we wrestle with this on our end too. Every time we pick a niche, we break it. I think right now we focus more on  psychographics.  And here's what I mean by that. So  as a business owner right now,

24:25

You're seeing so many messages of what you can do using technology. I can try this. I can try that. Right. We've made the decision to focus on being a human centered company. And what that means is we want to attract business owners who value speaking to a human and knowing that humans are working on their work and we can do it at a price point that's actually lower than an AI generated company, which I still haven't been able to free that.

24:52

So that's so that psychographic of talking to a business owner who's saying, look, I know there's lots of great stuff in the marketplace that either I could use or I could bring in people to use. What I really need is a marketing department and you guys figure it out. And that's the psychograph of the the ideal client for us,  which is like they don't want to do it.  And they don't they know that their time is better spent on their trade or their craft or what they're doing rather than learning all the marketing stuff.  And that's where we've

25:21

we've really found a lot of success because we find  those minded people who really focus, who value that. um Like my firm, we don't have a ticket system. We have an 800 number. I don't even know the number. um So it's  human focused. And I think that for us has been a real differentiator because you can pick up the phone and talk to us.  Absolutely. mean, it's the, in the world of automation, even,

25:46

AI is some of it's getting so good, but  you're still you run into these these uh Parts versus like dude. I just want to talk to a person  like person there was uh it was really popular for a while and it probably still is popular but like these AISDR is like when  when like AI first came out it was these folks were basically just strapping chat GPT a prompt and uh some LinkedIn automation or email automation and then  like  this this

26:15

AI magically goes and gets the list and does this and then does other people are paying like  3k a month for this AISDR. It is like, dude, this is like uh an  automation email tool that's like  not doing that much work and you're calling AISDR and about a year, people are buying it like crazy. And it's really about eight or nine months after into this becoming popular. I mean, I get on the calls with people all the time. Yeah, I tried this.

26:43

ASGR, we spent  60K last year and got like 20 meetings. And it was just like over and over and over again.  it is,  I think it's like there's these different cycles in the market and they're happening so rapidly right now where people are testing a technology, getting burned, and then looking for a new thing. And maybe that technology is advanced and now it's actually good, but they're still burned from  that technology. And so it does sound like you're saying that the human element is the one thing that's gonna stay.

27:13

I mean, you feel pretty confident that's going to be the consistent element that's going to be for companies that are winning over the next couple years? I do. I do. I think it's confusing for companies because they don't know how to interpret how to use the technology right now.  just available technologies, even above and beyond AI,  it's not a replacement for people. And I think that's what most companies are struggling with right now  is,  yes, and to your point, exactly,  the technology can do something.

27:42

But if I just rely completely on technology, nothing actually happens. You need that human interaction. So what we focused on is  highlighting the human interaction while still using the tools. But it  kind of elevates the specialty of humans when you know how to use the tools. Yes. And  like for our company, we really are obsessed about how do we just get the best people, like support the heck out of them.

28:10

coach them like for all of our teammates. We know their personal, professional, financial goals. We mentor them on it. And it's less about, used to be the big brag, used to be the big office and a huge company head count. Like I've got this big office in Miami. We've got 600 employees. And now the brag is like, I've got these incredible, incredible team. It's a small and mighty team. You know, we're up to 25. We're at like 10 right now.

28:36

but they're like everybody on the team is like an absolute assassin.  And we're like everything, because the team  gets bonus on like how well the company does profit wise.  And they split that.  if you're like, okay, we were taking on more employees that gets a little thinner. And so now the whole team, you've got this amazing team that's, uh how do you solve problems with technology and AI?

29:02

So it's this constant tension between how do we solve problems with software and AI and then how do we keep it real and authentic and human. think the big thing for us has been just have incredible, incredible, incredible team and culture and value that above everything else.  Yeah, because your team of 10 can work as much as 50.  And I think that's what a lot of companies are starting to realize is with the right people, combine that with the right technology.

29:30

You know, and I think in the marketing world right now, that's so hazy. Just because of all the noise that's coming out to people, it's just hard to figure out what's good, what's bad, what's usable. And I think the answer is a human to help you through it. Let's go. Well, I love that, man. Let me just kind of hear a little bit about what are  some of your goals right now? What does this next phase look like for you, Yeah,  so we are...

29:59

Focusing  on we've pivoted a little bit with our focus  and what we've noticed is there are again around  our ideal client  with the psychographics that I was talking about before we want to focus on industries where people Can use technology or can use  our services? But don't necessarily want to learn them themselves  And and so where I see I see certain industries right now

30:26

where business owners are diving in and they're saying, I want to learn everything about this. I want to learn the whole thing. What happens, and there's nothing against, I'm not against that. just,  I don't know if it's necessary. I think they might be spending time doing something that they don't need to do. So what we're doing is focusing on more in-person businesses um that have a healthy, robust  company, but they don't necessarily...

30:55

want to learn the whole AI marketing thing. They don't want to necessarily go down that road because then it keeps our value there for them. And then our goal is really that marketing company consultant just to say, okay, here's what we think. Here's how we think you can use the technology. And we're finding different audiences in different industries that kind of  resonates with them. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, there, it's so hard to keep up with the technology, even if it's your full-time job. Yeah. So if you're like,

31:24

Yeah, just in any if anybody listening, yes, like you want to stay up on the technology relevant to you, but to  try to do a deep dive into like, let me now become a  understand the code and the software developer and this tool and how  it's like,  you have  people doing that full time and it's still very hard to keep up. And so there it is. It is definitely one of those times where it's like, you want to be smart enough. I always say it's like, you should know enough about your marketing to know when

31:53

Like the person that you hire  is  blowing smoke or they're actually intelligent, but you don't need to know every little new technology. And it sounds like some of the best clients that you get the best results for are those ones that are like, hey, you know what, I wanna focus on my business uh and I want somebody who can educate me and help me, uh but it's like, I don't want this to be my full-time job to try to keep up with the new marketing technologies. Exactly, exactly, yeah.

32:23

makes for a nice partnership. Well, let's do this. I mean, this has been a lot of value, man. I want to make sure if anybody's listening to this podcast and you resonate with that, you're like, you know what? I'm a little bit overwhelmed. I'm keeping up with all this technology. And I would love for somebody to at least talk to you about like, hey, what is the next step? What a strategy. Definitely, definitely connect with Dan Klein. What's the best way for somebody to connect with you? LinkedIn.

32:51

LinkedIn's always best. So yeah, Dan Klein, CEO Sage Marketing. Bring your right to me. Yeah.  And then I know we were talking before that  if they mentioned the podcast, you got a little free gift to give out to them. We do. Yeah. And again, all about creating value. we created a 2026 marketing guide that will, it kind of lays out.

33:12

You know, if you're a business owner, what content you should use, what do you need, what you don't need necessarily, what trends that we're seeing as far as getting people's attention  in this kind of uh crowded space. And so we will be happy to give that to you for free. So  if you if anyone just  messages me on LinkedIn that, you know, mention the podcast and I'll just send you the guide. And then if you want to have a quick conversation and  talk it out, be more than happy to do that. Let's go. Well, this has been awesome, Dan. I mean, it's I'm excited for the.

33:40

It's just that I we're gonna get some good feedback on it because it's a hot topic right now. Like marketing, how does all this stuff work together? And  it's great to just have an in-depth conversation about somebody who's as obsessed about their area of the marketing world as we are with ours. So it's great to have you on the show, Dan, and we'll talk soon, brother. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right, bye for now.  Bye-bye.

34:05

Well, it's been great to have you on the show, Dan.  And remember, everybody, domination is not a destination. It's a way of life. Stay winning.