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The Truth About Being a Full-Time Digital Entrepreneur | Adam Kan

• Dominika Legrand

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The Reality of Being a Full-Time Digital Entrepreneur | Adam Kan

Being a full-time digital entrepreneur isn’t as glamorous as social media makes it seem.

But what does the day-to-day really look like? How do you stay disciplined, build something sustainable, and uncover what truly matters to you?

Join us for a candid conversation with Adam Kan as we strip away the fluff and dive into the real challenges and rewards of this journey.

Whether you’re considering the digital entrepreneur lifestyle or seeking inspiration on balancing work and life, this episode is packed with actionable insights. Rethink your strategies, redefine success on your terms, and learn how to create a fulfilling career without sacrificing your well-being.

🔗 Follow Adam on social media:

https://www.facebook.com/adamwar.kan

https://www.instagram.com/theadamkan/

Get a FREE Copy of the High Converting Online Events Book: https://book.dominikalegrand.com/

Speaker 1:

know, okay, what's happening. Are there specific activities that make me lose energy? So for me. I I prefer having my calls around the end of afternoon or maybe even evening, because once I do a call in the morning I feel like shit. I don't want to work anymore. I'm done like I did my talking, nothing else matters. I never really realized. I thought I had a good business, but I was the business, so without me it was nothing.

Speaker 1:

Um so if I get sick or if I get hit by a car tomorrow, then there is no show anymore.

Speaker 2:

Nothing is gonna happen the future of marketing is going omni channel. Before we go into the interview, there is something I want to talk to you about. If you are in business, you may have realized in order for you to sell anything, you need to build relationships first. The past five years, what I have found the easiest way to build relationships is through online events, and I actually have written a book about it High Converting Online Events how to create, promote and monetize your online event Also put the exact framework behind how to create, promote and monetize your online event. Also put the exact framework behind how to make that happen. If you want to build your business using the power of online events, you can grab a copy. I'm going to put a link in the description of this episode. You can go ahead and grab it and let's go today. So welcome to the Omni Channel podcast, adam.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2:

It's a pleasure. So I'm just hearing that you're moving. Where are you moving?

Speaker 1:

We used to move pretty close to the city center, but then we moved a little further from the city center because we thought, oh yeah, we need the space, we need the peace. But then we realized, like it's very nice having a very big house, very fancy neighborhood, but you also realize that there's nothing here. So what we created for ourselves, living in this nice golden cage, like when people come over they're like wow, Like it's an amazing house. But at one point or very soon actually, I think it only took us a few months like, oh, this house now it's just a house, so we didn't really like that anymore. We're gonna move back. I'm gonna downsize a little bit and move back close to the city center so we can actually walk to places, do some stuff, have some coffees. Like right here there's, there's nothing. There really is nothing at all.

Speaker 2:

You have to drive every single time listen, I I can appreciate nature for sure, but if you work from home which we both do and I think part of our conversation is going to be around working from home as a digital entrepreneur slash the travels, you know the glamour, like what's really the behind the scenes. So, as someone who works from home, I can completely relate If there isn't much to do around you. I mean you're home all the time, so what do you do? It's not like you have an office where you go and commute every day and you like experience, people, you know, like places. But if you live somewhere that's like more secluded in, you know, not in a center that can be be very lonely. So I understand the move.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would say, generally speaking, I'm fine not leaving the house. I will not leave the house for months. I would say I'm already a little weird like that, but even for me it's a lot. So we'll just be stuck, especially if you work from home like it's just so you have like at least eight hours of work, I'm guessing for most people, then everything else around the house as well, so you'll be out a day for like maybe 30 minutes. There's no socializing, there's nothing else.

Speaker 1:

Of course there are a lot of benefits, but having some kind of variation, I think, is definitely necessary. Personally, I prefer just having both. Every time I cut phases. So I'll have a phase where I'll just work outside every single day in a coffee shop, a co-working space, or a while where I just several months, nowhere, just focus on work at home, and I think that keeps me sane and I think keeping your sanity is very important.

Speaker 1:

I think a lot of people go crazy. Um, I had this friend actually we used to work together for a publishing company and great guy, but he could not stand it. He could not stand working from home, being alone all the time, because that that's reality usually like you're alone all the time, because that's reality. Usually You're alone all the time. If you go to this place, like Bali or any other place with a lot of expats and digital nomads, that's fun, but then you need to find the balance between how much fun we're going to have and when are we actually going to do the work. I think that's quite hard for most people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, first of all, I'm still at the point when you said you're fine with not leaving your house for months. Like that to me is like what the fuck anyway? How is that working out for you? Because I don't think I can not just leave and go outside and do travel.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think I've always been very, very introverted and I'm totally fine, just working, and especially if I have certain goals and nothing else matters. If I have a certain goal, then that's just it, and right now it's just work, baby, family and that's everything about those few things. It's at home, there's nothing else. Um, and every few months I'll know like, oh okay, I would like to be social right now, and when I notice that then I'll do it. But I'll meet someone like once or twice every three, four, five months, and then I'm charged for the next three, four, five months.

Speaker 2:

Wow, that's how my brain works. That's crazy. So let's talk a little bit about what you do, so that the listeners can put everything into perspective, because we're going to talk about behind the scenes lifestyle balance. So can you just let us know what you do?

Speaker 1:

um, that's a very good question and I get that question a lot and, honestly, a lot of times I don't even know because I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 1:

Mainly because I feel like I'm doing a lot of different things. I'll do my own closing, but I'll also hire people or I'll like help other companies find people as well. But while I do that, I'm also like writing my own copy. I'll write copy for other people. I'll do my own DM setting, train people for DM setting Basically anything you can think of, whether it's social media or anything funnel related or like a CMO. I'll touch a little bit of everything, so a lot of moving parts, and I think that's where I'm a little stuck, like what's my title now? So I just usually tell people I'm not sure. It's probably easier to just tell people I do a little bit of everything and if they're not in an online marketing space, I just tell them I sell drugs, because it's easier to explain.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God. I want to see their faces when you say that. No, but I can relate and to be honest, with you going to networking events and just be like so, introduce yourself. You know like okay, and I'm trying to like so hard to explain. So I do this and then I send emails and I do this and for this client that's what I do, and then there is no title. I think Like that is like all encompassing of all this work.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I think, generally speaking, I'll try to stick around something with marketing, like, yeah, I'll help companies with their marketing and increase revenue. Just try to be as boring as possible.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, what I say is I help grow businesses online, because that's kind of like what I do. If it's online, then probably something around growing those things and that helps. Yeah, when it's online, then probably something around growing those things and that helps.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when it's in similar circles, they'll understand like we talk about copywriting or media buying or whatever they're like. Oh okay, yeah, makes sense, but for everyone else it's just like so what, what like copyright, as in with the movies they're like I know they don't know.

Speaker 2:

It's basically, I think the language is, you know, different. And um, I'm so crazy because I find myself explaining, like what a webinar is, you know? Like you know, like doors like webinars, like okay, they don't. Okay, those online events, you know, sometimes they. So I really really try to explain it, but I'm like I just need to stop over explaining and if they're curious, they would ask more questions. But if they don't care, it's just a polite question, they're just like okay, I did not sign up for all this shit, you know, I'm just like I was trying to be polite, you know, I don't really care about what you do, you know, but just so, I think that's what I'm getting a lot.

Speaker 1:

I think it makes your life a lot easier by just keeping it very, very simple. And if they're like you said, they'll ask, they'll figure it out, and otherwise it's just yeah, just stuff online.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right, I think I had to learn that. I had to learn it. That was a process. So we did talk about the Bali lifestyle. There is a lot of talks about, you know, freedom like work from anywhere, and I think there's such a glamorized self-spitch around this like freedom, blah, blah, blah. So we know that's not quite how it is. We have experienced it and you have experienced it. And can you tell us what was your experience with the travel lifestyle, the nomad lifestyle?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think I traveled for about five or six years I don't even remember how many flights, probably hundreds of flights and it was great At the time. It was great Especially once you start out and you'll start making some money and you'll feel awesome looking at all the stuff. But it doesn't take a lot of churches to realize that most churches look quite similar, and the same goes for temples.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God.

Speaker 1:

And with a lot of things. It's very, very nice meeting a lot of people, but at the same time, making true friendships is very hard, because after a few months you're gone or they are gone, they don't really know what they want to do.

Speaker 1:

Maybe you don't really know what you want to do. So when you're younger, when you're starting out, it makes a lot of sense to me. But after a while you start missing the stability and I think all the things that you don't have seem very nice. So for most people traveling seems very nice because you don't do it that often. It's very special, but after a while places don't excite you as much anymore. That feeling of flying or going somewhere, it's just another trip, just like with the house I have. It's a gigantic house, it's beautiful, but now it's just another trip, just like with the house I have. It's a gigantic house, it's beautiful, but now it's just another house and it becomes very normal.

Speaker 1:

And then the stuff that you don't have is what normal non-digital nomads have and like stability, the peace and having your own office, like right now I'm looking at like three giant monitors, which are a little unnecessary, but they're great Stuff. Like that you can't really have, but I can probably do three times as much at home than I can outside, which is my laptop. And then suddenly I'm starting to think like oh, I want to grow something, I want to build up something, and that becomes very hard while you're traveling and meeting people all the time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I can definitely relate on that. And I think I've gotten to a point where you know those marketing messages when they say, oh, freedom, you can get freedom, common freedom. And I'm like, okay, I guess I have freedom now. And then the financial freedom. I think I have financial freedom too. So I check, check, okay, now, what you know. I think there comes a point where you're like, okay, I can, can be anywhere, I can travel anywhere, but, like you said, productivity is not going to be the same, especially for me. I mean just maintaining quality work. You know most of my clients are on retainers, so I'm just the ability to focus, maintain, maintain quality work, be there for clients and plus explore, plus travel. I think it's just so hard. I feel so guilty every time I'm traveling because I'm I'm trying to just balance, you know, their work with my travels and it's, there is no stop. You know there isn't like hey.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to take two weeks off like bye, there isn't, their business doesn't stop. Hey, I'm gonna take two weeks off like bye, there isn't they. Their business doesn't stop because I'm going somewhere.

Speaker 1:

So that's one of my difficulties. Yeah, there are a lot of pros and cons to it and I I've conversation with my friends who have a nine to five and what they never seem to understand is like when you are done at five, you are done, you don't. You don't think about it like you can do whatever you want, but when I wake up at two, three, four or maybe four am like oh shit, I still have still things to do. The show must go on, the business won't stop and I can't just take off suddenly. I need to really really schedule that ahead. And even when you take time off, stuff is still going on. The businesses that you work with don't stop. And then it becomes very hard to just let go of that and just truly enjoy, and I think that's a very hard balance for most people to find.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely I mean for you. You have a baby now, so you really have to learn how to prioritize better. Do you think that having a baby helped you to be more productive, or yes and no.

Speaker 1:

I would say yes and no. I think the hours I work are definitely very, very focused, because I know that every minute that I'm not productive, that I'm not focused, also means I need to work more and it takes away from time being with my family. That's a price that's too big to pay. So definitely that, but also with the baby, of course, like I would lie if I wouldn't tell you that it's quite hard at times, but there are plenty of sleepless nights, days where I feel like shit and I'll just sit behind the laptop like I don't know if I have the energy to do this. So those days I'm not very productive, but it does really make you prioritize things. I think, especially with fun and social activities, that I really have to sit down and think, like this person that I could meet, is it worth it?

Speaker 2:

Or can I sleep more or work more, right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Like is it worth it? Would I rather be with my baby? Would I rather work more? Would I rather fix this? So you really start to prioritize things and I think for me the last year or so it has been. We would love friends and people that I might know or maybe aren't that close with. And then I realize is it worth it to maintain this or would I rather do something else? And then it becomes very clear which people you truly want to continue being friends with or you think are actual friendships, or what I know it's a lot, is that people just want something from me, or what I know, it's a lot that people just want something from me.

Speaker 2:

How do you think your friends are reacting to this new version?

Speaker 1:

of you, that is like cheers.

Speaker 2:

Guys, I'm having much more fun without you with the baby.

Speaker 1:

I think it really depends. Friends that I've had for years they understand and they will probably come to visit us instead of, like, asking us to go somewhere else. Um, whereas more like acquaintances they're like oh, oh shit, so now we're not good enough. But it has nothing to do with that. To me it's just like if I had to pick and you want to come over for coffee here and I can still watch my child, then I would be more than happy to do that. But if you want me to take like half a day out to do something, I probably don't want to do it wow yeah, I'm just very re-Dutch that way.

Speaker 1:

I grew up in the Netherlands, so I'm like, yep, that doesn't feel like something I want to do, maybe once in every few months, like if it's a little bit longer, then I'm fine. But right now I feel like being at home, seeing her grow up, because right now, like every single day is different, like she'll grow up a lot every single day. Like the things she does today are very different than what she's going to do next week and everything is going so quick that I don't want to miss out that's so interesting.

Speaker 2:

You say that to me because all my mom friends they like complain. They're like get me out of here. I want to just get out of home. I can't be doing like like so happy to catch a break from their babies.

Speaker 1:

I mean, of course there are moments like that, but most things, like, for example before, I would also still love to go out and go into nature, but it's more enjoyable for me to just do it with my family. So it was never like, oh, I've got this extra burden. It was just like, oh, I've got this extra bird. And it was just like, oh, I've got an extra, extra buddy to just bring with me. And I think the older she'll get, like, the more we'll like see and experience together and like, oh, there's a lot of really cool stuff. That becomes more enjoyable Because there are times when it's very tough and where you go like, oh, I want to catch a break. But there are very small little moments where like, oh, I want to catch a break. But there are very small little moments where like, oh shit, like this was totally worth it, like I wouldn't, I wanted to miss this.

Speaker 1:

And with those moments I feel like it's perfect. There's nothing else that I would rather do.

Speaker 2:

How do you find yourself to stay disciplined? You know, I think for me, me one of the biggest challenges to focus. You know, I have clients and projects and podcasts and, like I'm, there's so many things I'm doing, um, especially you, you said as well like you, you're doubling with instagram, you're copywriting, like there's just so much you do, um, so, especially now that you have a baby. But how do you find yourself to get the discipline? Do you have like a to-do list or what's your go-to?

Speaker 1:

Yes. So there are a few things I do. I've got my habit tracker with non-negotiables. I've got a to-do list, so I use like the three-to-three method. So like first, three most important tasks and second, priority or wherever I need to call, and then the third list of three things is what I need to maintain, maintain or some kind of maintenance around the house to keep it peaceful. For example, it could be putting the dishes away or like keeping my office kind of clean or as clean as it can be. Stuff like Then preparing the night before helps a lot and never focusing on too many things at once. So I'll know like I might have a dozen things to do, but it doesn't mean a dozen things are important right now. So the list of priorities is very important, so I'll start my day with the most important.

Speaker 1:

So if I have three or four hours of deep, deep work, of focus work, that it needs to be very clear when what needs to happen, and within those hours nothing else matters, like if it takes me very little, like if it's just 30 seconds, okay, fine, just get rid of it, then come back. If not, I'll just dump it. I'll dump it in Trello or Todoist, cool this later, but just don't be in my head right now. All I need to focus on is one task, and that might be reviewing something, sending back feedback to a funnel builder or writing copy, like cool. I need three emails. I'm scheduling 25 minutes for this. That's it, and I'll set a timer on one of my giant monitors. It's in my face all the time. Um, and I think that pressure um prevents a lot of stress, because the pressure makes me work faster and better, so I don't have to stress later what?

Speaker 2:

what kind of habit tracker do you use?

Speaker 1:

because you said you're using habit tracker um, before I had very simple habit trackers. It was just non-negotiables, like what do I do after I wake up? And I'll stretch. What do I do after I stretch walk the dog what do I do after that make breakfast after that. So it's, it's very, um, very organized, just know like every single step needs to be done.

Speaker 1:

Um, when I just started out, it was very, very tight. I knew exactly 5.07, I'm out the door, 5.15, I'm back, I'm starting to make my coffee. I'll start stretching. I knew exactly every minute. Now it's a little more peaceful, but still the routine and task needs to be done, because I do believe to detach myself from the ideal outcome and just to do what I need to do in order to get there. So I don't really know when exactly it will happen, but I know that it will happen as long as I keep showing up and doing my non-negotiables. So I think that's very important. And right now I've divided up my habit tracker into several categories, whether it's financial, whether it's family, whether it's family, whether it's health, because it was very easy for me to forget about my health or to forget about, even like family and relationships, and right now it's in my habits. Frankly, every week I need to call my parents at least once, because otherwise.

Speaker 1:

I'll forget. It'll be months and like, yeah, I haven't spoken to my mother in four months. I'm like, okay, let me call her every week. So having those categories helped me not just in the business but also everything around it.

Speaker 2:

You're like insanely disciplined compared to myself. I feel like Just like, oh, it's time to call the parents.

Speaker 1:

No, it really depends, and I think the habit tracker actually helped me with that, because I also allow myself to have bad days. It's not just green, there are red days. So if a ticket, then it's green and if not, then it's red. And if I don't feel well, if I notice my energy isn't there or something happens baby related that could mess up a day, and I just don't beat myself up for it. I just tell myself it's fine, it's just one day, and I just let it go. So there are plenty of days where I'm not super disciplined, like days where it's not perfect and that's okay. Like I'm just aiming for 80. I'm aiming for one percent growth every day and just keep going and over the years it'll add up. And so far, since since 2016, every goal I've had was pretty much around the timeline that I wanted to. So that was really really nice do you?

Speaker 2:

because you said, oh, I have bad days sometimes. You know I allow myself, but I could imagine that because you have your routine in a way that gives you peace of mind as well. So almost like you feel like I'm in control of my life, you know things are happening because, and so how much do you allow yourself to not show up for yourself? And how much do you? I mean, is this something? Was this something that you used to beat yourself up if you were like shit, I've been slacking for three days?

Speaker 1:

um, I don't really have a specific number or percentage. I just know that it's it's relatively little so maybe it's a few days in a month, and I'm perfectly fine with that, um, but it can never be that bad if you have non-negotiables, in my opinion, because the non-negotiables can be done in one or two hours.

Speaker 1:

So I'm not like cool. No matter what, I've done the basics, I still made sure that I moved at least 1%. I just did a little bit. So it can never be that bad. And and I personally feel like if I beat myself up then I'll take away from the next day I would much rather just restart and start again and have a good day than take away from tomorrow, because if I feel bad or if I keep working too much, it'll take a lot of energy today and I might fix something, but the next day I won't have the same energy.

Speaker 2:

So it's not as productive and it'll cost me much more how is your energy management, because you said you are very introverted. I'm also introverted and I noticed that my energy like I really have to pay attention how I manage my energy, because I don't have an abundance of energy yeah, um and I don't even have a baby just yet. So I'm sleeping nine hours.

Speaker 1:

You know, I'm fine yeah, I think knowing your energy, and what I always recommend people is like have some kind of tracking, like no, okay, what's happening? Are there specific activities that make me lose energy?

Speaker 1:

so for me I I prefer having my calls around the end of afternoon or maybe even evening, because once I do a call in the morning I feel like shit, I don't want to work anymore, I'm done like I did my talking, nothing else matters.

Speaker 1:

So I'll know that and I'll switch up my calendar. But if there are any other activities where I have to go out and see a lot of people, I try to move that and also to really understand what gives me energy and what takes away energy, and to give that kind of like a point system of like cool, how many points does this work, or should it take and is it worth my time and can I like maybe delegate it or maybe can I just get rid of it fully? So I try to optimize it that way. But overall I do think it changes like energy changes Like after a while of doing stuff, like maybe in a few months from now, you crave a different routine or variation and once you notice that, I'll just sit down with myself Okay, what happened? What changed? Is there anything else I can do to make it work again?

Speaker 1:

because it it really isn't just time. Energy is a big, big part of that.

Speaker 2:

I'm still like amazed how you are measuring yourself. You like introspective on how you are performing. I think your performance is important to you. I mean just based on the amount of information you acquired.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, I never really thought of myself as an incredibly productive person. In fact, I would probably tell myself that I'm a naturally very lazy person, and that's why I want to be productive and efficient. So I don't have to do as much. So I always try to find a better way to do it With energy as well. Cool, if I have more energy now, then I only have to do it for 30 minutes instead of 60 minutes. Or if I make more money, then I can outsource the stuff I hate.

Speaker 1:

So now life becomes more enjoyable, and that was always a really big goal for me, um, so I think that was a big part of it, like naturally being lazy and the need to do less of stuff I dislike and only do the stuff I like okay, that reframes in my head a little bit, because now I'm like I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I'm like he knows he wakes up, he does his no negotiables and I'm like shit, like I feel so lazy compared to you because I don't have that. I do have a couple, though. I walk the stairs every day once a day because I'm living on the fourth floor and I don't take the elevator, just walk the fucking stairs every time, and my partner would be like why, I'll see you up there, like, whatever you go.

Speaker 2:

And then he knows. And there are days when I feel like you know, I'm go out twice and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna walk the stairs again, I'm gonna do it twice, and then and somehow end up like getting something that I have to rush home, like last time I got like a slack message from a client. I I'm like, okay, I'll take the elevator. And my partner is like smiling, and I'm like, why are you smiling? And he's like, well, he didn't walk the stairs twice. And I'm like, shit.

Speaker 2:

Like even he's like, yeah, and I went back and I went from the fourth to the eighth floor because that's also fourth floor and I came back and I discovered how dodgy, like the top of the like those parts of the building like like tiles are broken. I'm like, oh my god, like I feel like I arrived to a different, you know building. Anyway, that's something I discovered just because I walk up the the stairs. So I do have those. I go to my pole dance every single monday. For three years, every single monday I haven't, I mean, unless I'm like dying from something, like I literally don't want to infect people or travel I always go. That's like non-negotiable. I always go monday. It's hard, it's difficult, it's painful, but I always go.

Speaker 2:

So I do have some of those to make me sane, because I I also think and you can also back me up but I, if I put myself to like a non-negotiable, whether it's an exercise, whether it's a, I tend to follow through forever until I change that habit to something else, like I used to. I read this book, the one thing, and it had a habit tracker, because apparently it takes 66 days to build a new habit. So I printed the thing I was acting every single day when I was and at the time I was doing meditations and I ended up going for over a year. Every single morning I was waking up meditating, and then I did a whole year exercising every single day, and now that became a part of me. So I'm like I know, if I put any type of non-negotiable, I always do it because I cannot not do it. I just don't feel good if I don't.

Speaker 1:

It only becomes easier. Which? Is really nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's like brushing your teeth, like it just becomes who you are you know, yeah, it's like brushing your teeth, like it's just becomes who you are, you know, and then so I'm, I understand. It's not like you're forcing yourself to do those things, because it's just like who you are, like you have to do those things. You're non-negotiables.

Speaker 1:

I think, finding a better reframing of the way you think, whether it's because for a lot of people I think it's it always feels like I must, I must do this, I must do that. Um, and when you must do something, it just sucks, like even if you started out loving it, it just becomes a chore and we don't really want to do it, compared to like, oh, but I, I want to do this, I really want to do this because of xyz, I want to do it and, like you said, like it becomes part of you and then suddenly it's. You don't think about it and it just happens every day and before you know it, like, oh shit, now I'm here and then, once you're there, then there's always a different goal. Um, I think humans are always looking for some kind of work. I do think we're made to work, to always have some kind of challenge.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

I think the most you could do is maybe one or two years off, and then you'll notice how boring life becomes without a challenge.

Speaker 2:

Yeah To your point. For me, the way I reframe it is if I'm saying I'm going to do something, I will always do it, because my integrity, with my own words, like if I'm saying I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, like if I'm, if I'm saying I'm going to do this, I'm going to be there, like you can bet on that. That's like Bible.

Speaker 2:

And to me, if I said even though it was silly at the time like I'm going to walk the stairs, like okay, for one day it's fun, and then it becomes like fuck, like I really don't feel like today. It's like I don't feel like walking the stairs, like but I don't want to be a person who doesn't say, doesn't do what they say, and that, to me, that makes me walk the fucking stairs, even though I don't want to. Sometimes I carry heavy shit and I still walk the stairs, you know, like a whole pack of water, like I, I don't care, I'm thinking to myself like glutes, glutes, like I'm trying to like as I'm going up, like focus on your glutes. You know, um, mind, body, whatever, um, I don't like to do that. So it's for me, it's like not even like liking the task.

Speaker 2:

It's like who I am as a person and I can't face myself if I, if I'm not, because I the stupid fucking thing once that I want to walk the stairs.

Speaker 1:

So I can't. A lot of people could learn from that, like asking yourself where you want to be and the things I do, does it align with where I want to be? And then the answer becomes very clear. It's just a yes or no. Like does it align? Yes, no, okay, cool.

Speaker 2:

I should do it or I should not do it. Yeah, to me it's building of confidence, because if you say you're going to achieve, like I don't know, 100k in six months, that's your goal. And if you become a person who, when you say something, you know you're going to do it, and it starts with the stairs. So, for example, if I'm saying like, like, whatever financial goals that I'm putting in front of myself and I don't have a relationship with myself, that is like I trust that you're going to do it. Because, remember, you did the stairs. Remember you did that. Remember you did meditation for a whole year. Remember, it's been three years you've been going to training. So whenever I'm putting anything out there, I believe that I'm going to do it, because I have evidence that I did it before. So I know that it's not just like in the air, like my, my mind doesn't go like no, you won't. No, you won't remember because you haven't done this and that. So for me it's a, it's a way to build self-trust and self-confidence and I really like that.

Speaker 1:

I love that. Actually, that's really nice. I think it. It does stack up with your confidence. You'll know, like everything before made it happen, so why not this?

Speaker 2:

exactly. It's that, because you are the type of person who, when you say you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it because I have so much evidence, even if it was not fun, you know. So that's why I do these things.

Speaker 1:

It's stupid, it's silly, but, um, it helps in other areas, I think but also think like a lot of people have this at least a bit of a weird belief that everything has to be fun. I I'm like I see no reason why. I see no reason why everything has to be fun. I think it's much better to deal with the fact that a lot of things will not be fun because most things will be out of your control, it's not up to you. There will be a lot of times where you have to do stuff that's not fun, and I would much rather know that I'm capable to deal with it very easily than praying that hopefully everything will be fun for the rest of my life.

Speaker 2:

I think, and I mean you look like you are exercising, you know. So I think if you ever studied exercising, going to the gym, then you very quickly realize it's not fun at all. I mean, there's only so much fun, but then when you go to a spinning class like this is fucking hell, like this's not fun at all. I mean, I mean, there's only so much fun, but then when you go to a spinning class like this is fucking hell, like this is not fun, like really, really it's painful. Like I'm sweating, I'm gonna pass out. Like how is this is fun? Like my body is screaming at me, like what are you doing? You know.

Speaker 2:

So I think if you go to the gym and you go back and you go back and you go back and like this is not fun, this is not fun, this is still hard, but then I know the long term it's gonna be. I'm gonna be healthier, I'm gonna have more energy, like I know those things in my mind. Even though the process is not fun, I know why I'm doing it. So I think for you, just to the point, like not everything is fun, but so long as you can put things like I'm doing it for this purpose, like that's where I'm going, even though the road might not be easy. But I think for me that exercise really put that perspective into like putting myself into uncomfortable, physically uncomfortable situations, because I know that the payoff is going to be confidence, energy. There's so many things I think that helps.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's always worth it. At the end of the day it's always worth it, and for me, generally speaking, I always have a long-term vision. So if I need to go through some not fun stuff today, then that's part of it. But it would be so much worse never to get there like that would hurt so much more than it would hurt today by doing it, and that thought alone will always push me what are some of your long-term visions?

Speaker 1:

I'm curious um, I think I've actually switched up a lot in the last yeah. Yeah, two years or so, actually like a little bit before the pregnancy and during and, of course, now with the baby, whereas before I I really, really wanted everything to be very, very big, and right now it's more about peace Because, like I said, at first I wanted the house, I wanted everything, and now it's like, oh, but the house is just a house, just another building. It doesn't change that much, because I'm much more peaceful with that and also with everything materialistic or the things I do. It's like no matter how I travel, it's from A to B, it doesn't matter whether it's in the most expensive car or in my old car, it's the same thing.

Speaker 1:

Right now, it really is about time More about how I can automate stuff and becoming a better leader or a better manager to help other people be part of the company, whereas before I would hold very, very tight to everything because I wanted it to be up to my 100% standard even though 80% or 90% would still be really good because once I'm able to do that, then I can probably have more time with my family I think that became much more nicer to me and also to have my money to as much as possible, to be more, more passive, so like we're building a house that we're paying off in cash, like just once 100, just so I have peace of mind, so I don't have to worry, and I feel like all the other little things that I could worry about, to get rid of that and then to just try to let go as much as possible and have belief in building a company that can sustain itself, whereas before I never really realized.

Speaker 1:

I thought I had a good business, but I was the business, so without me there was nothing.

Speaker 1:

Um, so if I get sick or if I get hit by a car tomorrow, then there is no show anymore. Nothing is going going to happen. I think that was a pretty hard realization and also because for a very long time I knew I was part of the top 1% freelance income. I did very, very good as a freelancer, but as a business owner I did very, very bad Because I wasn't running a business. I do think even a mediocre business could be so much more profitable than me being a top 1% freelancer. That was a pretty painful realization. And also, talking to a buddy of mine, he has been running a really good business for maybe 15 years now or something, and as a freelancer I feel awesome.

Speaker 1:

As a freelancer, I feel like, oh shit, like I'm crushing it, like I have really good money. I can do whatever I want. I always have all the options. Um, whatever it is that I want to buy, I can buy. Whatever it is what I want to do, I can do.

Speaker 1:

Um, but I cannot buy back my time and I cannot have the peace of mind I could have with a business that runs by itself, and I think working on that will be very important for me in the next two to three years already, and the years after, it's more going to be about playing defensive, because I've I've always played offensive like a cool. How can I make more? How can I make more? But right now, even if you give me another 100, 200, 300 grand, it doesn't change anything. My life is not going to change.

Speaker 1:

I'm not going to buy more, I'm not going to do more, so nothing of that will make me happier, whereas playing more defensive and keeping my money makes more sense now because I have much more to lose, because before I actually I had nothing to lose, so I would be fine reinvesting all my money in whatever, and half the time it wouldn't work out, but I knew that it just doesn't matter anywhere.

Speaker 1:

Like worst case, I'll go back to how I used to live. I can drink water, I can eat bread, I don't need anything fancy, but right now I have a lot to lose. So it's more about wealth preservation than just making more money, because there's only that much more money that would really make a difference, whereas if I just keep doing what I'm doing and preserve what I have and play defensive, it will build itself. It really will be about long term wealth in more passive ways and expanding the portfolio, because everything I do right now is very active. I always need to be on top of it. I started investing last year and suddenly I look at it and the numbers aren't even that awesome.

Speaker 1:

It's not life changing money but, I look at it and I'm like shit, I did nothing for this. All I did was buy 100 shares. Buy 100 shares and I just let it go. And then I come back and I'm like, oh, it's pretty nice making 3 grand, that was pretty awesome and it took me a few seconds, and stuff like that gives me so much more peace of mind. There are no must-have calls, there are no clients that will complain about anything. So that will definitely be the biggest goal that I'll be working on and just reinvesting the money and trying not to waste it on stupid stuff anymore, but that that already kind of stopped after 2021 or so wow, you know, um, when you were talking about the fact that if you got hit by a bus, you have no business, I felt so called out.

Speaker 2:

You know, I'm like, I think especially like two things having like more of a personal brand, like knowing you, and being the association with adam the copywriter, you know, like almost like building your own reputation and brand becomes this pressure on you to to be able to work, and you are the only one, the only brain you know. So I definitely felt like shit, like I also need to think of ways to get out of my business and I think the other parts of it and you mentioned that 80 good, not 100, you know up to your standards. I think I'm still struggling to let go because I'm thinking, oh, no one can do it as good as I do. My standards are so fucking high, I care so much. I think those type of internal monologues that how I'm going to find someone who can do it as good as I do it.

Speaker 1:

Well, of course, you'll need to pay for talent. That's just a must um. But at the same time, like, if, if the quality is like, let's say, 20 less than yours, but now you can focus on other other areas, then it makes a lot more sense. So, for example, I used to do a lot of email and I still do email, but not as much um. But 20% difference in email won't make a huge difference. But now, if you give me the same time back and I can focus on Instagram, I can give you double the amount of email subscribers. Then the 20% definitely doesn't make sense because I will make so much more revenue compared to losing the 20% quality.

Speaker 1:

And now I'm looking at a much bigger macro game, so to say, and I can scale the business much, much more. Then it goes back to prioritizing what is really important. Do I want to look at other possibilities to double the revenue, or do I want to focus on a smaller part and maybe add an additional 20% onto the smaller part, which doesn't make sense? And I think, as a business owner or as a CMO, you have to look at the bigger picture and the smaller things. It's never really like oh, I'm paying a copywriter 5K. I'm buying back myself all this time, buying myself a lot of energy, and now I can focus on making 50k or maybe 500k. That makes a huge, huge difference.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I get what you mean. What I wanted to comment on as well is you mentioned peace of mind. So peace of mind is to you having the financials or the options. How do you define peace? Because you said I just want peace.

Speaker 1:

I would say, for most of my childhood and early years in business, it always felt like war, like it was always fighting, always trying to hustle and just push harder and harder and harder. And when you're younger, that's that's perfectly fine. When you're hungry, that's perfectly fine. Like I've. I've had so many sleepless nights and so many things. I'm like shit. I don't know how I was able to do that, um, stuff like that. At one point you don't have the energy, you don't have the same willpower anymore, and just knowing that, whether I still make the same 12 to 16 hours a day or not is an option, I'll still do it sometimes because I want to, because I truly am excited about the projects I'm working on, but also knowing that if I decide this afternoon that I'm not going to do anything, I'm going to sit in the living room with my child, that it's perfectly fine. That, to me, is a lot of peace of mind.

Speaker 1:

Financials I think I pretty much let go of that in 2021, because at that point I started having enough money to take care of my family, take care of myself, do whatever I want. So money really became a game. So it's just about setting a high score, but I wouldn't spend that much more because I don't really have interest in materialistic stuff. So then it really comes back to the other things in life, which are time and energy and family, and maybe it sounds a little stupid, but it really is about building a legacy and building something much bigger than myself. Right now. I just want to build something which my children can look at and go shit, he did something awesome and we want to be part of that. I want my children to be part of that. When they're six years old, I'm going to sit them down like read this book. Like when they're 12 years old, I'm expecting them to just write full sales open their own companies.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, exactly and I think, in order to do that, like I want, to be an example to them and give them a lot of options, and if they decide that they want to do something else, it's perfectly fine as well, but to at least show them that, like, the possibilities are there and that, no matter what, like you can build whatever you want, you can achieve whatever you want. Because for most of my life that wasn't my mindset, not not until I I started creating something that gave me the peace and took away a lot of those beliefs and ideally I would want them to just never have to unlearn that.

Speaker 1:

So it took me years to unlearn that and I just want them to grow up thinking like oh, why would someone ever think about it like that?

Speaker 2:

Endless options, everyone, endless options.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just endless options. Whatever it is, as long as you keep doing it, it's going to be fine. Yeah, just that. I think that to me is peace of mind. Just the options. Like you said, it really was always about options to me and experiences, and not even about doing the things or buying new things.

Speaker 1:

just knowing that I can like knowing that I can walk out, take out my amex and buy any car I want. I won't do it, but just knowing that like, oh, now suddenly the car doesn't matter anymore because it was so easy, I can just walk out, um, and the options to be able to do that or to do anything. If I want to quit today and take off a few years, I can Like. If clients suck, okay, just here's a refund. It doesn't matter and that is a lot of peace of mind.

Speaker 2:

I love that for you. I love that and I can second you on the. I can buy whatever I want, but I don't want it anymore. I think I can relate to that, like when you get to the point where this silly thing like I wanted to buy cats. You know these like ragdoll cats and they're cute and remember I started my business five years ago like it's like $1,000 cat. You know it's not a cheap cat, but I want four of those.

Speaker 2:

I know it's a cheap cat but I want four of those I know it's a furry cat too, but by the time I got there, like within a couple of months, and I'm like, okay, now I can buy the cats remember I wanted to buy the cats and I'm like I don't want the cats anymore. I think that's kind of how I am, like it's good that you know that you can, but at the same time, by the time you get there, like I'm over it, like yeah, I mean it's cute, but it's it's a lot of fur. You know, like if I want to travel, like who's gonna feed them? You know, it's just and it's just not like the cats, but like I feel you on the having the option but then not even using the options, like just like it's good to know yeah, and of course there there's another side, like you said, like once you have it, then shit.

Speaker 1:

Now I gotta take care of it now it's gonna take away from me.

Speaker 1:

It's not gonna give me more, but that, um, yeah, that sucks. I think once you can very easily afford things, it doesn't mean that much anymore. I think that's, um, that's something I used to not realize, because in high school a lot of my friends they were like children of lawyers and doctors and like really high paying jobs. It was always weird to me that they never felt anything for it because that was just a standard to them, so it didn't mean anything. And to me it was like, oh shit, like you have a boat, like that's like next level shit. But to them like, yeah, but just a standard to them, so it didn't mean anything and to me it was like, oh shit, like you have a boat, like that's like next level shit.

Speaker 1:

But to them like, yeah, but just a boat, like don't care. Um, I think that's a really really good place to be, where it just doesn't matter, and also it cannot corrupt you, like don't care, like I don't have to take on clients, I don't have to do stuff I don't want because it means nothing. And I think, if nothing can like bribe you or like buy your a piece of your soul then you're truly free because there is no price to it, like my, peace of mind is priceless yeah, I get it, I.

Speaker 2:

So it's the ability to choose on who to work with, which projects and what. You know, I think, because I had never been a very much realistic person. You know, for me, things are just things. Like a phone is a phone, it doesn't give me anything. You know, um, what gives me something is overcoming myself, is being courageous, is creating things that are meaningful to others as well. You know, just going beyond my abilities and learning, and I think that to me, is more a kind of feeling of accomplishment than just things. You know, house as a house, like you said, I'm the same way. I I'm okay in a shoebox. I can, I can adapt to my environment very easily. I also learned that when I was studying in france, I had, like this 16 square meter tiny, tiny apartment that I was living. I was so happy I didn't care. I mean, I can, I can leave basically anywhere, right? So it wasn't expensive at all and I know that I can adapt to wherever I am.

Speaker 1:

I don't have high needs yeah, I think being able to like kind of internally be very happy with what you have, instead of having the need to like need external things to make you happy because those things will not mean anything after a while, like it takes you a few days, like everything that I ever bought that was very expensive, it takes me like maybe a week.

Speaker 1:

After a week, that thing is just a thing and then you can chase the next thing, at the next thing, at the next thing, but at one point there isn't that much more and then, okay, what are you going to do now? You've never learned to just be happy from yourself and the things you do and constantly needing something. It's a very empty road and I see this a lot and also with people that I coach and it's like especially younger guys because they feel like they need it, but there's only so much stuff you can buy, so much stuff and there's you can accumulate everything, but it's gonna take away from you. It's gonna take away so much from you until a point where you have nothing left and it's so hard to come back from that point.

Speaker 2:

Um, that's a very sad point to be, but yeah I know, but I think and we can maybe end here um soon, because it's already like in an hour, we passed an hour already but um, I think there is this societal thing that you, if you own certain thing, is to drive, if you, if you drive a certain thing, that you, if you own certain thing, is to drive, if you, if you drive a certain car that you made it, you know that, especially in Asia, I think, flexing with stuff is a big thing. People judge you because of what you drive and you know your, your clothes and everything, and that I think there's this mass, not, not, not Maslow, like hedonic treadmill.

Speaker 2:

I think hedonic treadmill hedonic treadmill when basically like everything becomes like, like you get used to everything you buy, you know like it's new for two weeks and then it's like whatever you know. So novelty wears off very fast. I think money. I felt it really well. I felt like my first client, yes, $1,000, yes. And then, oh, $2,000, $3,000, $4,000, $5,000. And I'm going up, up, up and I'm like huh, I used to desire a $3,000 client, that was my thing, that's what I want. If only I was landing a $5,000 client, like are you, that's what I want. Like, if only I was learning a 5k client like I, oh, like, that became like. And now it's like once you achieve that, you're like huh, now it's 10, now it's 15, now it's 20, and it's like it's never enough in that sense. So I I kind of learned to be like oh, that's cute, that I used to want that, and now it's like it's nothing.

Speaker 1:

I don't feel different, you know I don't feel anything funny how it all works. But yeah, at one point it really is just like oh nice, and then you go on to the next thing honestly, I'm like checking my bank account.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's money there. It's piling up great what and then and then what. You know, it's like my life is still the kind of the same.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's not, it's not major, you know that I do think is very, very nice is never having to worry if something breaks down, I get a new thing, I get it fixed and it's just, it's not a big problem of my life, whereas for mark I think it's.

Speaker 1:

It's a huge stress factor and if you have it, then it's just like oh well, gotta write a couple more emails for that or gotta fix some instagram stuff and I'll, I'll pay, that'll pay for it. It's not me. I don't pay in stress, I don't pay in headaches, just pay in the numbers on my phone and that's it.

Speaker 2:

And that's a really good place to be yeah, I think, whoever is listening, you might have gotten to like the realization that financial goals and like all of those superficial goals like they're good to have, but ultimately I mean, we all have our why's of why we're doing that and it's not to impress people or to like show to my mom and dad like look at me now. I think my high school classmates look at me now like don't, it's just right. So it really has to be a personal choice of building your legacy, trying to create something, that of impact that is transcending you, whether it's for your family, whether it's for yourself, just to be more than you were yesterday. You know, just like if you die, you know who knows when, and then you kind of made a difference in humanity. I think you start to zoom out and you realize like those matter too. So I think those are pretty important awesome, awesome.

Speaker 2:

I love that uh, any piece of advice for entrepreneurs?

Speaker 1:

entrepreneurs. And your last piece of advice try to really just detach yourself from the outcome and impressing others, because others usually don't care about you. People don't care about you like they might like you, but they don't care as much they would forget you in a month. That's the truth. So if there's anyone to impress, it's the person you see in the mirror. It's only person, the only people that really matter. It's your family, it's your true friends and yourself, and anything else is just a bonus. But just take care of those things and you'll live a much, much happier life. Like impressing other people will only make you unhappier thank you so much for being here and thank you for this conversation.

Speaker 2:

I had so much fun awesome. Thank you how can people find you? So tell us the listeners um, ideally not at home.

Speaker 1:

I like to be private, but facebook is is fine, just adam work on.

Speaker 2:

You'll find me on facebook so we're gonna put your personal address into the description so they can knock on your door and disturb you in peace, uh-huh okay I think that would be the worst thing to me the people wanting to drink coffee, but um no, I think facebook is the only place I'll actually respond.

Speaker 1:

Okay, if you try to text me anywhere else, I won't respond, but Facebook. I'll check it out once every month.

Speaker 2:

So you can find me there. I'll just put your Facebook then in the description of this episode.

Speaker 1:

Awesome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for being here.