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Use organic PR for Personal Brands | Najoua Belayane

• Dominika Legrand

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In this episode, we discuss with Najoua I invited a PR expert, Najoua to understand more about:

- How does PR work?

- How to use organic PR for personal brands.

- How to measure the effectiveness of PR.

- What makes journalists want to write articles for you, and most importantly, how to build and cultivate these relationships.

Enjoy the learning experience.

To work with Najoua: https://www.agencenajoua.com/

To Follow Najoua: https://www.instagram.com/_n.a.j.o.u.a_/


Get a FREE Copy of the High Converting Online Events Book: https://book.dominikalegrand.com/

In the first years you have to strongly build your connections and also you have to write very good materials because the first four materials will impact your connection to that journalist. If you could share one piece of advice for smaller personal brands improving their PR strategy, or if they don't have a strategy yet, they never done any PR, what would that be? Hi, welcome back to the Omni Channel podcast. Today I have a special guest, Najee with us, and she's a PR expert. In this episode, we're going to talk about PR, everything you have to know about PR, and a unique and different perspective about PR. So, Najee, I'm so happy to have you. Thanks for the invite. You're welcome. know, this is the first time I get to speak with someone in human flesh form. So I'm so happy to have you here in the studio. And again, thank you so much for coming. For those who don't know you, and this is their first time ever hearing from you, what do we have to know about you? Can you just walk us through your story on how did you get into PR and basically your origin story? Yes, of course. So um I went to um an economic university, but to be honest, I don't care about economics. And I started as a journalist at the oldest university newspaper in Hungary. And after I became the leader of an issue, and through the issue, I got to know Mancs. That is a food-based application, the biggest in the region. And I liked a lot. team and the story and I joined Munch. And at that point I started to deep dive into the PR field and you know as a startup I did a lot of things in marketing. So I did CR management, PR, blog management and also partnerships. But my favorite part or like area was the PR and that was the closest to my heart. So I think like five years ago I started the peer and since then I'm just like I think about we are not as a work but as a passion and this is my story now I have my own agency and I still working at Munch and my focus area is peer but I'm doing like other stuff as well so for example creative campaigns or event organizing but my main field is peer. What is one thing about PR that most people get wrong or that you see that's something that's a huge misconception about PR? I think one of those ones, because there are lot of misconceptions, that PR is only for the big players, so like big brands. But this is not true, because there are lot of other aspects that the smaller brands can do faster and better. For example, they can react to the news or to the trends faster. So for example, if the UN comes up with a new law um about ESG, A startup can react to that news a lot faster than a big brand. And I think that if we would like to differentiate the good PR and the very, good PR, that is the main differentiation, that the very, good PR can react instantly. m And the good PR just, okay, we will communicate this month about that topic and that's all, but they don't react. So I think that this is one of the biggest misconceptions and the other that um the PR doesn't support the sales, so the business. And this is not true because yeah, the main goal of PR is to raise brand awareness, but through brand awareness, you can make more loyal and more strong audience while with PPC, for example, you can get direct sales instantly. But In my opinion, they turned more than the PR audience. For those who don't know what PPC is, can you explain a little bit about that concept? Yes, think PPC is the main area of the advertisement. paper quick. Okay. So what you're saying is basically the difference between good and really good PR is the reactivity time. And you also said that smaller brands can react faster. When we talk about reactivity time, what do you mean by that? like a new, is a news is coming up or do you think that brands or bigger company than you to immediately take a stance on a certain issue? Would that make their brand stronger? What, what do we mean by that? uh Yes, exactly what you said, that if there's a big news, for example if we see the ESG area. political slash environment news. um so for example if an organization, ESG organization um comes up with a new program or new law, you have to react. If you are working in this field, for example at Munch with food waste topic, you have to react instantly because in this scenario if you react instantly and you are the first... After this communication, in the eyes of the journalist, you will be the leader on your market because you are the professional, you are the one who knows everything. And I think that from professional point of view, the goal of the PR activity is to have organic PR, not paid PR because I'm the paid PR. I think if you deliver value and interesting topics, you don't have to pay for PR. So in this case, when one journalist in the future will write about this topic, you will get to you instantly that, okay, I'm writing about this topic. I would like to ask one professional quote from you. So you don't have to do anything because in the eyes of the journalists, are the main contact to this topic. And they would like to write um like very good. article so they will ask for a quote. Amazing. it seems to me that we are talking about when in the ESG sector, especially, are talking about companies that are operating in the sector. What about personal brands? What about a personal business or personal brand? And what do you think that in terms of PR, what they can do to utilize PR to their advantage? And it's not if it's not the topic of reacting to those political environmental news, they're not on those fields, for example. Yeah. I think that it's very important to see that now not only the journalists and the media that is the main contact of PR, but also the people would like to know the person or the people behind the brands. So if the people behind the brand have strong personal brand that can strengthen the brand of the company. So I think that this is the like from the general point, this is the most important and For example, think that a very good platform to build a personal brand is LinkedIn because you can strengthen your personal brand organically and you don't have to pay thousands of euros or dollars. I think that a lot of people think that only the CEO or the founder or the C-level management should have a strong personal brand, but this is not true. I think all of the employees. should have and I see this trend mainly on the US market that they want to push the employees to build personal brands. and they see that, okay, from the personal brand of my people, I can gain more and this is not a weakness because I think that in Europe, on lot of markets, they think that, okay, if my employee has a good personal brand, This means that they want to leave me and this is not true. So when it comes to personal brand since we ventured into this topic, what I often see is more like pay PR. I don't know if you ever seen this like featured in Forbes, ah especially in the US, see, CNBC and And those are very much like paid, like almost like, hey, can you write me an article? I'm the best coach in this industry. So that's what I see the most. And when it comes to doing something like that organically without you having to go to a Forbes contributor and pay your way into a list, for example, what are some organic ways for you to get PR without, you know, you having to push someone to, hey, can you write something good about me? Something like that. Yeah, so when I start a cooperation with brands or like with people, they often think that, okay, like one or two press releases are enough to get into the mainstream media to a tier one, because in PR we have three types of mediums, tier one, tier two and tier three, based on the reach, based on the position of that medium. um from audience perspective. So they often think this and I always say that, okay, I think we should start to collaborate if you understand that PR is a long-term investment. like two months is not enough to get into Forbes. Now I had an example, I started to work with a company in February and now they are conducting a Forbes interview. So it can happen, but usually it doesn't happen. And I think that you can, if you deliver value and interesting topics, you can get into the media. um very often. So the first, what I suggest a lot of times that if you gave something that the journalist cannot have from anywhere else, or if you can save time for the journalist. In the first case, you can do researches. So for example, if you do researches, you can position yourself as a leader in your market and you can give a value to the journalist that they cannot have from anywhere else. Yes, this is the first case. And the second case, if you don't do research, but you collect the data that is on the market and you can save time for the journalists because they don't have time to spend hours and hours to collect the data or the news or the topics on that industry. So I think that these two can bring you so much coverage. And of course, if you have big news, for example, you enter a new market or you have a new business line, it can be a very big news and you can get into uh the media as well. But I think that Even if you are a startup and your growth is very fast, so you can give news in every month, it's not enough because you have to give some, like you have to position yourself as a professional and as a leader. So I think that if we can think about social media, that we have content pillars, one of the content pillars should be, yes, I'm the leader and I should communicate that I'm the leader. What if you're not a leader because you're just starting out? I think you have to find an angle that can position yourself as a leader and for this you have to have a good PR professional because what I experienced that if you are internal, like you lead the company, worked, I don't know, for years and years. But it's very hard to see your company from external point of view. And for example, um I often experience that some internal news, the founders mostly, think that this is a big news, I have to communicate about this because every media will speak about me. um If we can say that they reached a thousand customers, yeah, that's a big milestone for them. from journalists point of view, it's not. Yeah, it's not. And it's very hard to explain that. Yes, congratulations and you are very good and you do a good job, but this is not a value for the journalist. So I think that because of this, have to be in contact with an external, with a PR professional that can see your company with the eyes of the journalist or with the audience. When I was working with one PR for one of the businesses I was helping grow, every time we had something happening, they were like, okay, that's great, but it's not newsworthy. So they use this word newsworthy. What do you think are things that you see that are, you just mentioned that thousand customers is not newsworthy. Yes. um What are the things that you think, okay, this is newsworthy, this is not newsworthy, or just do you think it's so individual that, you know, you can't even. Give us like an example. um I think if you enter a new market that in most of the cases is newsworthy or if you merge with one competitor that is also a very good story because it's not common to merge with a competitor or if you do a program or some net campaign because from the marketing campaigns came to my mind but some program that can give value to the people. So not marketing campaign, but something that could be relevant for the readers that can be also a newsworthy. But it's very, yeah, it depends on the industry, the size of the company and the kind of the company. Yeah, when it comes to looking for that journalist, I imagine that you have to really research the journalist or the news organizations that are actually fitting to your brand. know, if you want to get into Forbes, for example, I imagine that that's a different type of business structure that is featured in that. And you got featured into the Hungarian Forbes. Yes. Can you tell us how that happened for you? Yeah, if we are talking about Forbes, I think that one of the highest points of my career or the point that I'm most proud of, that on one day we were featured in three Forbes, in the Czech, in the Hungarian, in the Romanian. So I think that it can be done. uh You have to know the medium, not only Forbes, but like every medium because For example, in Hungary, we have several business mediums, but you have to know that, okay, for Forbes, the story is more important than the data, for example. But for another medium, the data and the diagrams are more important. And you cannot send the same press release. And you have to know the journalists in that medium that, if... this is an e-commerce topic I have to send to events. So I think that because of this, like a lot of professionals, PR professionals are afraid of AI, but you see that the human connections are very important. And yes, AI can write the press release, but they won't know that, okay, I talked with that journalist on that event. you can check in with them. Yeah, when I write an email and I send press releases, I always check in that, how is your baby, for example. Yes, a lot of people think that, OK, this is superficial, but I like this in my I that's better than to chat GPT and copy paste everyone. I love that more. you were saying that, can you just walk us through the process? So when it comes to the Forbes for the company and for you and for yourself, did you send a press release to contact or did they naturally pick up based on something? What was the behind the scenes if you don't mind sharing that? Yes. um When you have strong news, I would suggest to contact some key mediums earlier than the press release launch. So for example, if you launch a press release on the 10th of May, you have to contact the key mediums one by one, um like one week earlier at least, because you can get exclusive interview with that. the strength of these mediums, but if for example Forbes writes an article, lot of legal mediums will pick up from Forbes. uh But we've done in this case that I organized an exclusive interview with Forbes and they had the priority to publish that interview one hour earlier than the launch date. So when it comes to like launch it or press release, it's basically social media or just signing out. Where are we signing out? Yeah. uh The launch date is when I'm out to everyone the press release and it's very important rule that before the PR uh marketing cannot do anything because if you put out on social media everybody will know it and the journalists will say that okay it's not important for me because everybody knows. Okay. Yes and just to visualize this like this important note that for example we had a big news in last year and one of our co-founders posted on LinkedIn not the whole news but like uh some part of the news and after I send out the press release and uh 80 % of the journalists said that oh it's on LinkedIn already. but I already saw it on LinkedIn and I cannot publish it so it's really very important um to be in contact with every stakeholder. with the founders, with the investors, because like you cannot imagine but in February one of our investors sent out the news earlier than us and it was insane but it's very important to see the PR as a strategic tool and to treat the PR as a strategic tool. So if I understand, because this is my first time to kind of like see through. So what you're saying is for the listeners as well who don't know this process. So basically what journalists want is they want the news to first, they want to be the first one arriving to the news. And when they have the news, then obviously smaller, they can pick it up from them. but they want it from you first, so it's like exclusivity on the news. And one of the strategies is basically giving them exclusive news before you talk about it in social media, because once everyone can notice, it's no longer interesting to them. They just want to be the first one basically publishing or talking about it. Yeah, because the first one will get the more views, so the more readers and the goal of the medium is to get to the... Yes. Gotcha. Okay. I had to walk you because I was like, well, why do they want what? Why is it like the press release? Like, okay, I got it. So thank you so much for explaining that to me. Okay. Amazing. So we talked about AI, you kind of brushed through it. What's up with AI and journalism and PR? What's your take on that? Yeah, as I said, I think lot of PR professionals are afraid of AI, but I think that it can be useful in our work. So I use AI for the researches, because when I write a press release, I research a topic, what they said on the market about this topic. So I use for this the AI. Right now I cannot write the press releases with AI because in Hungarian and in the other languages it's not very strong, only in English. But I can use for international press releases for example. I think that I don't afraid of AI because as I said the connections are very important and PR is evolving. So more and more... tools will be connected to PR. For example, the pop-up stores are very popular right now and the pop-up stores are used for PR. So not direct sales, but to make a wow effect around the brand. And I often see on LinkedIn that one little pop-up store or just this movement can make a big noise. So, and this cannot be organized by an AI. So I think that the PR is going to this way. And if we see how we can use it usefully, the AI in our work, I think we don't have to afraid of. Yeah, so basically what you're saying is like researching and like processing data is amazing. Yes. But like actually connecting to a journalist and like sending out the press releases in a way that is like personalized to each medium. That's not something that AI can do. And whoever takes the time to build those connections is actually going to get their articles published. and the AI don't know that that journalist has a baby or not. Like, can you research these journalists and like the AI could scan their LinkedIn profiles and like Instagram and like what's important to them or like if they have children and you know, how's your... Anyway. I could see that that could be the case in the future, but I think yeah, for now, human connections is the strongest assets you have. So we need to talk about personal brands when it comes to PR and you said you are helping personal brands with their PR strategies. Yes. What other fields... can use PR for their benefits. Yeah, maybe one of my favorite things in my work that I work with lot of brands with different sizes. So, for example, with big banks or with little like startups or bigger startups. And like if we see the field, I work a lot in the ESG and the green field, but I work also in fashion and gastronomy. And for example, I have one partner um in the like flights and airplanes and this stuff. So it's very interesting for me to know more about these industries, but sometimes it's very hard to go into the details of every industry. So um it's a little bit like ambivalent. So basically you're saying that you whenever you get a new client on those fields that you don't yet have, like those connections, you have to research, you have to build those connections and it's a challenge for you every time. Because you have to know how to communicate on that field because you can write a press release that this and this business just started this business line, but it will not be published. So you have to be the professional of that industry and this takes time. So I try to know more about these industries and I often like ask help from my partners or clients. but it's very interesting to see all of the industries. But my main field is the ESG, the fashion and gastronomy. Okay, so that's a three main field ESG, fashion and gastronomy. That's the most common clientele that you worked with and you have the most knowledge in creating them. But basically you can learn any in the industry depending on the Yes, the strategy of the PR should be the same line with different topics of course, but I think that you have to follow them kind of the same way. It's always like researching and connecting and finding those key players. So if you could share one piece of advice for smaller personal brands improving their PR strategy, or if they don't have a strategy yet, they've never done any PR, what would that be? How should they start? Yeah I think I start with a quote from Bill Gates so if I was down to my last dollar I would spend it on PR so this is my first advice. you say that really? Yeah so my first advice would be to invest into PR your time, your money and your mind also. And the second one to always have a goal with one communication. with every piece of communication, you should have a goal that can support your next step. So you have to think about the next step with the current communication and you cannot send out something without a goal. yeah, it's a big news and I send out, but you have to... like awareness, clients, connections, like what kind of goals should I be thinking about? Yeah, you can have, for example, the brand awareness among your customers, it can, you can have a goal to get investors. So talking about the businesses or the growth, but also what is, I think, very common to speak for a B2B audience. So to get more partners. So this, like in every, every time you have to think about, okay, with this communication, I would like to... ah I would like to talk to this audience but in that press release I ah put something else that can support my next communication and maybe I can reflect on it. you give us an example because now it's like very theoretical. Okay, so let's see uh one press release about... We saved X thousands of food, for example. This should have um three paragraphs, one lead and three paragraphs. And in the first two paragraphs, I am talking about the food waste and how we achieve this result. But in the last paragraph, I mentioned that we are growing. and in this year we will enter a new market. And the next communication will be the new market. So, you know, I can put the connection between the two press releases. newsletter some sort. Yes, just to the journalist. uh So it's like basically PR is like newsletter to journalists. With an attention. Yes, and with, think, no, but also for the newsletter you have to have a strategy. Yeah, you have to kind of connect those as well. they get hooked like, okay, wonder what's the next news going to be? And that's what found. Yeah, I think it's a good framing actually, because the journalist should feel that, okay, that person sent me something that should be interesting. And if they have time or it's really interesting, they will publish it. But the journalist doesn't have to feel that, oh my God, again, she sent an other press release and I just deleted it. So, you know, this is the differentiation between. A good connection and a bad connection. Imagine like someone is bombarding them every week like oh no, this one again, it's annoying. I imagine like they have to block so many emails coming in. I don't know, I just flood in there. Okay, when it comes to like communication, is it email the main way of communication? Yeah. Do you call them on the phone or do you like link to message them? Yeah Mostly email, but I have some connection in Instagram for example, but mostly email and if they don't answer in two days, I call them. Oh, how do you their numbers? Yeah, I have good connections. And they're like, why are you calling me the phone? did they get, what is it of the relationship is like at that level that you have their phone number and you're like. Yeah, like in most of the times they just forget to read the email because they were in a conference or another press conference and in the phone call we are checking together the press release that, okay, I will publish it and then I call the next journalist. much of um the press release that we are sending to them, how much of that are they going to just make it their own and publish it in their own way or are they just going to copy paste, there you go? um I think in the mainstream media where they're writing mostly news, they just publish it because they are not like magazine style, they are um like news media. But if we are talking about the magazines, for example, Glamour or also Forbes, they like to do interviews. and maybe they will send back some questions, three or four questions, or they say that okay this is a good topic but I am interested in the whole brand so I would like to do an interview with them and the topic that I sent will be included but it will be so much longer. and the journalist will make it their own style of writing. Gotcha. Another thing I wanted to ask you is about the emails and communications. Obviously, they got bombarded with lot of inquiries. How do we stand out in your mailboxes? Do you have any strategies for that? Or you're just like, hey, I sent you an email. But that has to be built. It doesn't work like that at the beginning. Yeah, I think the name matters so who sent that email or like company, or recognized brand. so this is the reason. gmail like hey at gmail.com like okay thank you girl yeah But if you are lucky they will read it and they will understand. do I even like get there to do my own, you Anyway. Yeah, and this is the reason why in the first years you have to strongly build your connections and also you have to write very good materials because the first, I don't know, four materials will impact your connection to that journalist. and I think that uh one thing that a lot of PR professionals don't do that they don't ask back that, okay, you didn't publish this article, but why? And they don't ask how. Did you not like it? Yeah, but thought I did my best. But the journalists like to answer that. Okay, I like the article, but. You're boring. I can't help it. You have to include something else or whatever. Do they be honest with the feedback? you think? do you just like... They are? Yes. Yeah, and like they feel themselves as valued people um in the eyes of the PR professionals because like to be honest between the PR professionals and the journalists the connection or like the way of thinking is not very good. I wrote an article about this so I interviewed five journalists and five PR professionals. how do they think about the other part? And they always say that, ah yeah, they are sending the press releases and the other, they... but you see my email, like it's annoying. Yes, and I cannot understand why, because these two audience or group can help themselves, each other, and they can help the work of the other group. So my personal goal is to... Yes. you should do an interview when you sit them down and go ham talk to each other. Or like a, you know, just a meet up and the journalists will know that, okay, in this meet up, we'll be only journalists, the PR professionals will see that, okay, only PR professionals and when they arrive, everybody. So how do we measure the effective muscles PR? um There are some numbers or like metrics. I think the most important is the number of articles, so how many coverages you have. But I don't like when the agency um got, I don't know, 30 coverages but in tier one mediums. So you can have 30 coverages but in very very little mediums. Yes and like in my work I always say that, okay, from me, you won't um receive a lot of coverages, so 30 coverages, but you will receive 10 that is very strong and that has reach and readers. So I think that the quality of the coverages, maybe that one is the most important and after the number of the coverages. And there's a matrix that count that how... how much money would you pay for that article? So you can count that okay in that medium on that part of the medium so on the front page or in a blog uh section how much money you have to pay for that article and you can count that okay with this PR campaign I saved the to us without paying for the article. Yeah, and of course if after one PR campaign a lot of possible partners will write you that's also one metric but it's very like it depends on the... Okay, and this is probably the last question I'm going to ask you. No, not the last. The last before the last. Do you think that PR is like a long-term strategy or do you see sometimes that one press release gets you all the results you want or sometimes it just takes time to build that brand awareness or whatever we're looking to build? I think PR is always a long-term investment and long-term strategy except one, the crisis communication. So when, for example, one... Yes, yeah, so I don't have to say example, but I think that PR is a long-term strategy. with one, even if you have the biggest news in the world with one press release, yeah, you will get a lot of coverages, but after everybody moves on. So I think one press release is not enough. You have to be consistent and you have to bring stories, good stories and good news. Perfect, thank you. So before I let you go, can you tell our listeners how they can find you? All of that and what are you working on? What's in the future for you? Yeah, so I think my main platform is LinkedIn, so they can find Najwa Balayan on LinkedIn. Thanks for your time. Thanks. And also I have a website like my agency, Agents Najwa. You can find the website on Google or other search photos. your search engine capabilities. Yes, and also an event in Budapest and maybe in other countries. actually hear you speak. Yes. Okay, one last question. I know we have to go. Okay. So um how do you get yourself those speaking gigs? Yeah, I'm always invited. One time I wrote to the Martech conference, the biggest conference in like this type of conference in the world, and they answered me that, sorry, we are full, but you can write an article. So I wrote an article and it will be published next week. So it's very fresh. But I invited them, I think 90 percent. And it's because of your connections and you really... Mostly on LinkedIn. So as I said, LinkedIn is a very powerful tool and you have to start to use LinkedIn. Yeah, I have my LinkedIn, but I never touch it. I I have to now. Okay, thank you so much, for being here and talking and giving me a call. Thank you guys for listening.