PR is for Entrepreneurs - Interview with Jen Gould PR Coach

Most entrepreneurs shy away from media and PR because they think they need fame to get noticed — but Jen Gould reveals how visibility is accessible to anyone willing to show up and be seen. From her days as a rock star opening for Aretha Franklin to coaching women in business, Jen shares the surprising truth: PR isn’t reserved for celebrities. It’s a powerful tool for positioning you as an authority, increasing revenue, and attracting opportunities without needing to reinvent the wheel.

In this episode, Jen takes us behind the scenes of her journey from performing on stage in leather pants to helping her clients become media mavericks. You'll discover how to leverage every media channel—from traditional press and speaking gigs to podcasts and social media—based on your strengths. She shares her signature four-part framework: defining your ideal client, solving their core problem, transforming their life, and consistently communicating your three key messages. This clarity is your secret weapon for building unstoppable authority and confidence.

We break down the mindset shifts that turn fear into fuel, including how to reframe nervousness as excitement, create safety through preparation, and develop a fun, fearless approach to visibility. Jen shares real success stories—from a client who hit the Wall Street Journal bestseller list to someone else who landed high-paying speaking gigs—showing that media begets more media. Plus, learn her simple pregame rituals to embody energy, connect with your audience, and make your message resonate. Whether you’re a coach, creator, or service provider, this episode will equip you with practical tools to cut through the overwhelm and start getting noticed today.

Most importantly, Jen emphasizes: your stories, your expertise, your message—when communicated with clarity and confidence—can transform your business and your life. If you're ready to amplify your voice, attract new opportunities, and create visibility that feels authentic, this episode is your blueprint. Perfect for introverts, busy entrepreneurs, and women who want to serve from a place of power. Tune in and turn your visibility dreams into reality.

Guest Credibility: Jen Gould is a PR and visibility coach, with a background as a classically trained pianist and a client roster that includes Aretha Franklin, Lenny Kravitz, and Dean Graziosi. Her expertise combines artistic performance with corporate media strategies to help women confidently step into the spotlight.

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https://jengouldcoaching.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hello, Jen Gould. Welcome and thank you for joining me for our chat today.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Thank you so much for having me, Kara. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

SPEAKER_02 0:11

I am excited to be here with you because I know we've um known each other over Zoom for a while now, and I always have so many takeaways from our talks. And you always give me so many ideas and have me thinking for days about things differently. So I am really excited and honored to be sharing you and your expertise with my community of women who are themselves either in a corporate role and wanting to branch off and do something different, build their personal brand, or they own their own business or founding a company. And we are living in an age where it's more important than ever to have the skill set beneath us that we can generate opportunities and create visibility and gain attention to help us hit our goals. And it's something that like we're not taught this in grade school. So you're needed now more than ever. So let me introduce you to my community. Jen is a PR and visibility coach and has had the most incredible trajectory in her career from being a actually classically trained pianist, touring and living the rock star life, actually being on stage so you can really speak to all the things that come along with being in the spotlight and literally being on stage in real life in front of people and an audience, to then transitioning to like the corporate PR world, working at the most elite New York City firms, helping other celebrity clients, musicians, and clients create visibility, gain momentum by leveraging PR channels and even working with some of the best of the best, like Aretha Franklin. How many people can say that? You were literally mentioned in her book, thanking you specifically for helping her get ready to show up on stage. Like what better proof of concept and accolades could there ever even be than from the Queen?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

The Queen.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

So taking all that amazing experience and then pairing it with your work as actually being a certified coach, having worked with Tony Robbins and Dean Grazio's mastermind programs, like you, I feel like are the perfect person to help women like us who are trying to, you know, hit our business goals and leveraging visibility and PR as one of our strategies to help us get there, to give us like a real framework for what works, and then help us bridge the mental gap of like how to actually implement some of these things. So this is exciting that we're chatting today. And thank you so much for being here. This is so fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

So fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Did I miss anything?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

You nailed it.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Okay. Okay. So first let's just get into like what's the name you work with lots of clients working on gaining more visibility using these different like media and PR channels. And media is changing so quickly nowadays. So when we even just like use the word PR, what do you mean by that? Like, what are what's kind of the buffet of options out there that people could be using?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

As they're thinking about Yeah, the options really are endless. So traditional PR is like print media, and then it transitioned into online media and speaking engagements like that. And now we're into, as we all know, social media, podcasting, whether you're a host or you're a guest, doing guest posts so that you can author articles and have that be on different websites where then you can sort of get a backlink to your website, which then helps with SEO. I mean, there's just an endless array of opportunities out there. And I think it's just so important. I know that we'll we'll talk about this, but that people not get overwhelmed and it's very easy to do so. And just know that whatever your strength is, there is a visibility channel that will work beautifully for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

So, what would you say is like the number one thing that you wish that entrepreneurs knew when they were trying to approach this whole like realm of PR media?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

A lot of people have the misconception that you need to be famous already to garner media attention, but you don't. It's not just for celebrities, it's for anyone who has the courage to be seen for what they do. I'll tell you a story. I learned this, I learned this a long time ago. So I kid you not, I really wanted to be a rock star. And I thought the fastest way to becoming a rock star was to get a job at Arister Records, and I landed in the publicity department. So by day, I was publicizing artists like Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston, Annie Lennox. And by night, I was singing and performing in the clubs in New York City. And my job at night, if I wanted to be invited back, was to get people to show up to see me because that's all the venues cared about. They just cared are people in the audience, are they eating? Are they drinking? And that's it. And if I could not fill the room, then I was not going to get invited back. And it got so bad that I remember I looked out in the audience, there were like five people there. There was like one guy slouched over himself on the table in the back. There was the bartender, uh, some other person and a couple of really supportive friends. And I realized that if I didn't fix this, that I wasn't going to be able to continue. And I decided to get help. I ended up uh hiring a vocal coach because I wanted to get better as a performer. And I shared this with her. And she said, Jen, why don't you publicize yourself the way you're doing with your Grammy Award-winning artist? And that's when sort of I had a light bulb moment, and I got to work and I started to contact all of my local contacts in in New York, and I got some publicity. I had articles written about me, I had features in the local publications, and slowly I started to build up an audience. I actually remember one article came out, and my next show was filled with people. And then from there, I slowly started to build up an audience that played bigger and bigger shows, which was amazing. And that's when I learned that the power of PR, it's not just for celebrities. Like I said, it's for anybody who has the courage and who wants to be known for what they do best.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

What I love about that story is um a couple things. One, that it demonstrates something that we're still seeing today, right? Just in maybe perhaps some different medias or forms based on, you know, what we're using. But like someone who's really big in a certain space or industry is not going to bring on a nobody, right? They want to bring somebody onto their platform that's going to also come with an audience that is like mutually beneficial. And so this idea that we can just show up and be paid for our performance or our expertise and not have something to give back by way of like attention going the other direction was true then, and it's true now. Even if you're not trying to fill an in-person, you know, bar in a late night in New York City, which how cool, by the way. Like you're like the lady.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Still have still have the leather pants. Actually, I have the leather pants and I have suede pants with like leather down the side. Just I saved them. I don't know, I don't think I can fit into them anymore, but I still I still look at them and I'm like, you know, that was cool. How cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

And the other thing that you highlighted in this story was that you saw that there was not a lot of people in the audience. And it sounds like you went to like, how do I solve this? I need to improve my skill set. And you sought out somebody to help you improve your skills, which how often do we see other coaches doing this, right? Signing up for another certification, another program. And you don't necessarily need to even be better at your craft. You can serve people with the level of um expertise that you have right now. It's not about necessarily getting better because if people still don't know about you, you still aren't serving your audience.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Right. Right. It's just you have to just get out there.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah. She didn't enroll you in, like, yes, we're gonna make your voice like pitch perfect, right? And she's just like, well, just tell more people about your show and they'll come.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

She said, I just want you to know my next student is John Bon Jovi. I said, Sounds good to me. And so she wanted to prepare me. So as I left, he entered and we chatted for you know a very you know quick second or two. It was the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I would be thinking, why didn't I wear my rock star stage pants to come to music class? Like, oh my gosh, that's wild. Okay, so you are literally a rock star on stage, toy. But now you help people who are actually maybe not as comfortable with being on stage or who aren't trying to become a rock star or be famous for the sake of being famous, but they do want to hit their business goals. So, how do your clients actually use PR and media opportunities to actually make more money and get more opportunities?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Well, I'll tell you the value of PR, it's important to know what your goals are. So some people want to get just more visible, they just want to practice their message, they just want more people to know about them, or maybe they want more followers on social media, they want to grow their audience. Other people want clients, or they want to get paid, or they want to use the coverage that they get as leverage to get speaking engagements or book themselves at summits. So there's and or they want to be on podcasts so that they can build up an audience and maybe develop those relationships. Maybe they're thinking of starting a podcast, or maybe they have their own podcast and they want to bring those people on as a guest on their podcast, you know, doing a podcast swap. So there's so many different ways and reasons for doing PR. So either to build authority, grow your audience, get paid. So you ask specifically how to use that to get paid. And again, when you're visible and you're in the media or on podcasts, a lot of times, and I've had clients uh do this, it grows your credibility with that third-party endorsement. So you're already vetted by, right, a third party. And then when you put together your media kit or your speaking proposal, my clients have gone from one level of whatever they charge for a speaking engagement to exponentially increasing their fees for a keynote speech, for a workshop, for a half day workshop, a full day, whatever it is. I mean, that is, I've seen that over and over and over again. Also, when your clients are considering working with you and they see that you've been in a lot of media or on a lot of podcasts or spoken on a lot of stages, then all of a sudden, again, that increases your credibility and your authority, and you can charge substantially more. So I I live that every day with my clients.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

That is amazing. I love that example, even of like doing the same thing you're already doing and just raising increasing your profit margin, raising your prices and not having to create something new or develop a whole new program and like working with what you already have and just raising your prices. What are some of like your favorite kind of like success stories of clients that you've had who worked with you who have started implementing some of your tactics and actually like dipped their toe into this like world of PR and media?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah, so I work with uh I'll I'll give an example. I had a client who had a book and we did the PR for his book, and we did a great job, did not make it a bestseller for round one, but then about a year later, was offered a second book deal. That one, because again, we started to build his audience, and that one I made a Wall Street Journal bestseller and Amazon bestseller, and that was unbelievable. And from there, booked huge speaking engagements that he wasn't able to get beforehand and commanded tremendous fees. So I just saw the change even in one year's time just from that and getting that media coverage. Another client, yeah, actually, she gave uh a great keynote at a national conference and was recognized from there and then was invited to uh have other big media opportunities and got noticed from doing that. I mean, I can give you so many examples of this, but me just the important thing is media begets more media. Visibility begets more visibility. Oh, I actually I'm thinking another client uh got in uh national coverage in a national publication, and a client across the country read the article, contacted him, and immediately became a very, very, very high-paying client for him, having never met him just by reading this article in this national publication. So you just never know. That's something that um I want to touch upon. You never know who's watching. And I think a lot of your audience probably experiences this. If you post on social media and then you get DMs from people who have never commented on anything that you've posted, and you wonder, like, wow, I didn't even know you were, you knew I existed. That happens all the time. That happens the same time when you're a podcast guest, when you're doing a workshop, a speaking engagement, when you're maybe doing a guest post or blogging, you just don't know. You don't know, and it's the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

I love that that's it's like we do so much as business owners to quote unquote find our people. Like we, you know, go to the events and we maybe do uh paid ads and join groups and all these things to try to like actively source and find our people. But the idea that we can just publish something and put it out into the world, and then it's like doing the work for us to attract people that we would never have known to like knock on their door or send them a note or DM them, right? But that it's coming to you, that you just have all these like little glowing gems out in the world attracting people into your world that you don't even realize are out there, like consuming your emotional finding value.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Exactly, which I want to touch upon. Yes, exactly. That's why at the foundation of anything you do is your messaging. Because to your point, putting out all these gems and and we don't know who's watching, who's listening, all of that. It's you want to know that your messaging is communicating that which you want it to communicate. So that's the first step is what do you want to be known for?

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yes. What do you want to be known for?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

So people probably come to you thinking that they've got it somewhat figured out. And then what are what are some of the big like pitfalls that you find people that you're like, no, your your message isn't even communicating what you think it is? Like, what where do people go wrong with that?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

I think people are are really very smart. I mean, the the clients I work with are very smart, they're very talented, and they care so deeply. They have such a passion for what they do and the people they help, the people they serve. And it's like, how do you get all the information in your head out in a sort of quick way that resonates with those who you wish to communicate with and have understand your message? One of the biggest things is they say too much and then we get confused. It's it's usually one of two things. There's a lot of rambling, and because we don't know what to focus on, because there is just so much to share, or they freeze and then it's like, okay, we need to draw it out and make it safe for you to be able to share your message. But if I just go back to sort of the the over-sharing, people will get confused if you don't point them in the right direction with key messages and things that you want to be known for. So I would say that's really the the first important step is to make sure, like an exercise I like to do with my clients is I ask them, what do you want to be known for in the next six to 12 months? If we can even contain it to six to 12 months, knowing that as your business evolves, as you evolve and you do more and more of it, you can change. You can oftentimes what happens is we get more and more confident because we're taking the action that we niche down even more. And when you do that, it's the scariest thing for all of us to do. But when we do that, our message pops even more because there's such clarity in the precision. So, but if you go back to just what do you want to be known for in the next six to 12 months, that takes away all of the overwhelm. Like, because the way when you ask somebody what do you want to be known for, I don't know about you, but my mind goes to this big like, oh my God, what is my life's purpose? What do I want to be known for? It's too big. I can't wrap my head around it. So just the next six to twelve months, and that's a great place to start.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

So it's like simplifying the message down to those few things, those core takeaways. Otherwise, the rambling takes over. An untrained ear can't pick out what actually was worth paying attention to.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Why the is it like a nervous rambling that they just go off, or is it like a mindset of scarcity? Like I have to display all my expertise, or I'm going to miss out on an opportunity. And then by like sharing too much, they end up missing out on an opportunity because nobody understands what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, I mean, well, this happened to me when I first started. See, so right now, what I do is I combine mindset coaching for when I got certified as a life coach five years ago with PR strategies from my decades in PR. But when I uh just like five years ago, when I started as a life coach, I'll never forget, I ran into a neighbor in the supermarket. I think we were in the pasta aisle, and we were, you know, catching up and just talking. And she asked me, So what do you do? You know, what are you doing these days? And I kid you not, I shared something and then I just found myself rambling on and on and on because I wasn't clear yet on my own message. So it's very different. It's one thing to publicize somebody else and or to help somebody else with their messaging. But when it comes to ourselves, that is the hardest thing because we're in it. And we really need somebody else to guide us through so that we can be clear on what do we want to be known for. So anyway, I'm in that pasta aisle and I just keep adding more and more things. And her eyes just glazed over and she was very polite about it. And when we left, I was so embarrassed. I was so, so embarrassed. And so I think it's just, it's just a lack of clarity because we haven't taken the time to think it through. We haven't gone through sort of a quick process and exercise to know and commit and declare exactly what lane we want to be in and what we want to be known for. And a lot of times, if you don't know, you know, you don't have a guide or somebody to show you, then how are you supposed to know? So it's important to ask yourself who do you really want to work with? Not just entrepreneurs, not just women necessarily, but like even a little more specific. What life stage are they in? It's very different speaking to somebody in Their 60s versus somebody in their early 20s. It's just two totally different message points. And that's okay. But yeah, it's, and when you speak to that person, when you call out your person, they're like, thank God, you're speaking to me. And you want your client to recognize themselves in your message. And that builds trust and everything like that.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yes. So something you mentioned that I want to ask you about. You talked about, like, you know, you kind of had all these ideas in your head, and you're you obviously are the expert in your own business, right? And then when it came to actually articulating it, that's when it kind of like fell apart a little. How often do you find that these like really intellectual people who are very smart and great at their subject area of expertise, right? It's like maybe have we stayed a little bit too much in our heads. And then when it comes to actually simply communicating what we do, like that's where the like we just haven't practiced actually articulating it enough.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yes, exactly. And also not being clear on who you work with, what problem do you solve. Those are two very, very important things to think through. And you can't throw in. Yeah. Yeah. And you can't throw in the like the kitchen sink because when you confuse, you lose. So that is critical to to know that those two things.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

I'm gonna write that down. When you confuse, you lose. So some of my in-person events, right? We take turns going around, introducing each other, trying to get a sense of like, okay, you know, what do you do? What kind of clients could I even refer to you? Just trying to get a baseline sense of, you know, where where everybody's at in the playing field and what everyone's working on. And I have seen this happen so many times where they'll start talking about a business that shut down years ago. But then that's the thing that I remember is my takeaway, right? Even though they've said, oh, I shut it down years ago and now I'm trying this new thing. And then I've also dipped my toe in this other area, and I'm also considering this. But if you know someone who needs that, and it's like pretty soon I know them for everything but the one thing that they're actually actively trying to grow. Um, and you know that feeling of like when you're kicking yourself late at night, like, oh my god, why did I say it like that, right? Like the of course she walked away in the in the pasta aisle, like so confused and glazed over like it takes practice.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

And they can't, they're less likely to be a client of yours because they have no idea how you can help them. And they're also less likely to refer you. So if I share a four-part framework, it's number one, who is your client? You know, like what stage typically it's a great way to think about it. What stage of life are they in? Uh, maybe like what's their age, or you know, tell me a little bit about maybe their career or they are they are they entrepreneurs? But you just want to define that a bit more, depending on if you're even working in relationships. Like I have a lot of relationship coach coaches. Do you work with just one person in the couple? Do you work with couples? Some just like to work with one, some like to work with couples. So you have to really know that distinction so that again, your ideal client can see themselves in your message. The second thing is, what problem do you solve? The third is what is the transformation that your client is going to get from working with you? That's really, really important. And then the fourth thing is what are the three, we'll start with three, and four obviously has branches, but it's those key messages. And I like to think of what are those three key messages that you want to be known for? And if you have a hard time of knowing, because maybe you have 10, and that's okay. Maybe you have 20, maybe you have more. But if you think about what do people continuously come to you for? What are the questions that you are asked repeatedly? Just open up your ears and listen. And this, you know, you'll you're gonna want to look back over time. And even if you can come up with one from doing that exercise, and if you need help with the other two, ask yourself, what do you love talking about? Like what can you riff on? If somebody said, you know what? This is a great exercise. I'd like for you to be a guest on my podcast tomorrow. What could you speak about easily without preparation? Well, that's a topic that you're really passionate about. So I would add that to the list. It's hard enough in today's world to be known for anything, right? So let's make it because there's so many of us, which is a wonderful thing online. So let's make it easy for us and for our ideal client to at least get to know us for three things. And of those three things, maybe they'll remember all three, maybe two, maybe one. But it's coming up with those and then communicating those over and over and over again. And in our minds, we're gonna feel like we're just being so repetitive. But repetition, as Tony Robbins says, is uh is the mother of mastery, right? But repetition, if you think about ads that we see over and over again, it's then you next thing you know, it's like, oh, I know that name. Even if you've never bought anything, it's like you feel a familiarity with it, and that's what we're going after.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Familiarity. Uh and see, even just reframing visibility as familiarity sounds so much more friendly to me and like less scary. Like, I don't know how many people really want to, especially if you're like the more introverted type, or you came up with programming socialized as a woman or with a certain set of values that like taking up too much space or garnering too much attention could be seen as like a negative thing. But I just love even that tiny little reframe of like, I just want to be familiar to people. Like, I'm not just trying to be excessively famous for the sake of being excessively famous, but like, oh, to be like a familiar, helpful person to me comes across as um coded much more in like a much more digestible way for someone who maybe has a lot of fear and resistance um and self-doubt in terms of like getting visible, like trying to be out like paid media, like, oh my gosh, this sounds like so so scary in such a big world. Um I don't know, is that something that your clients run into a lot? Like coming up against some of those obstacles of like wanting to grow their business, but also fear of being seen.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Oh, tremendous, tremendous. And then the negative self-talk and the self-doubt that comes up and self-sabotage, all of that. And so often we sort of reject ourselves before we even get the car out of neutral, you know, before we even try. It's something I learned about fear. And I've learned, because I look, I still have fear, but I've learned to befriend it. I've learned that it's likely never going away. And I've also learned that I don't want it to go away because it keeps me sharp and it shows me that I care. And I experienced this firsthand. So I'm a senior in college. I've performed at the piano a billion times. I've given a million concerts and I'm always nervous, always before a concert. I'm like, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? I'm in the green room, I'm sweating, my hands, the whole thing. Well, finally, I'm a senior in college. I'm at the end of performing, and I'm like, I am so done. I am, I'm just tired of doing all this and all the shows. I'm sick of it. I kid you not, I had zero fear. I got on stage on stage. I gave the worst performance of my life. And that's when I realized fear is a blessing. It means that we care, it dictates how we show up and how we prepare or not in advance. It keeps that adrenaline pumping, it keeps us sharp in the moment, and we deliver. And so now when those butterflies come up in my stomach and all those feelings, I'm like, yes, bring it. This is good. And so I've learned to lean into that and I encourage my clients to do the same. The best thing that we can do to overcome it, I think step one is to create safety in the body first. And how do we create safety is we create certainty. How do we create certainty? We decide our messaging in advance. Going back to what I said, those three key topics or three key messages that we want to be known for. We know that if we're asked a question, and I'm sure you've seen this on TV when the politicians are being interviewed, they are going to answer the question they want to answer. It doesn't matter what they're asked. If you ever just for fun want to watch somebody be interviewed at a really high level, I can't tell you how many times I'm shouting at the TV. I'm like, you didn't answer the question, you didn't answer it. I'm like, I know what you're doing. You're sticking to the message that you want to get across. Okay. And then you'll see the interviewer, they'll try, they'll ask the question a second time. And the person being interviewed, if they don't want to, they're not going to answer it. And then they move on to the next question of like, that's how it works. Look, none of us, I don't think, are ever gonna, unless you're gonna run for politics, we're not gonna be bombarded with questions like that. So that's not so much. I mean, is it a reality? Yeah, does it exist? Yes. Is it likely? Definitely not. So, how do we create that safety is coming up with those three key messages. So even if we fumble or stumble or forget, we just go back to something that we've decided in advance that we want to be known for, and just reiterate that message.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

But it's like the concept that you can create your own certainty and manufacture it for yourself, regardless of what like the interviewer, right, or like the inquiry is that you can go into it with that energy of certainty because you've already decided how you're gonna show up and what your key points and takeaways are going to be. So it doesn't have to feel like I have no idea what they're gonna throw at me. I'm so confused, I have to be prepared for everything. Like that would stop me in my tracks from even wanting to even try because it's just so so broad and wide, and that sounds so scary to me. But the idea that we can create it for ourselves regardless of what the other side is showing up as is like I mean, such a metaphor in life in general, right? But I love that it applies to this too. You probably see that all the time. You see all these life truisms that you're like, and this too applies to PR and media and like yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

You're like, what's the one I I mess up all of the phrases or idioms, whatever they are. So I'm uh unfortunately, I don't know why I kind of missed that gene. But what is it? You miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take, what you right? But that applies to putting ourselves out there and having the courage to be visible, getting in contact with somebody, pitching yourself, and knowing that if you don't hear back, it means nothing about you. Do you know that I'm interviewing painters now to paint the outside of my house? Okay, I got a quote from painter one. Painter number two, I never got a quote from. And 10 days have passed. And I'm like, you know, I really thought we had a great rapport. I'm like, okay, I said, I'm gonna follow up and I waited because I was also gonna meet with painter number three, who also told me that they were gonna have a quote that night, and four days had passed. So finally, by this weekend, I'm like, that's it. I'm following up with painter two and three. Do you know that painter number two had my wrong email address? And so, and painter number three ended up getting very sick the last few days and just sent me the quote. So, my point is that we can make all of this stuff mean like, why didn't I get these two quotes? Don't I thought I was very nice. I thought we had a great rapport, you know, uh, you know, they don't like me, I'm rejected. No, they had the wrong email address and somebody's sick. And that's something really to remember that there are so many things going on in people's lives that we don't know about. And especially when pitching the media, they get, depending on which media outlet or which journalist, they can get up to a hundred pitches a day. Podcast hosts, some some of them I know, they get like 20 plus pitches a day. So then that comes down to okay, then how do we stand out? How do we position you? What's that, all of that? That that's a science and an art to it. But that's something really to keep in mind. That let's not take it as rejection. It's the first place that we go. Yeah. But like I shared with the painting example.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

It might have nothing to do with you at all. I feel like that with communication, I mean, which is what it is, reaching out to people, a form of communication, right? And pitching yourself. That um, you know, working in corporate, I would have hundreds of employees who are very motivated to do what they're asked to do and they want to be good employees. And so often they wouldn't follow the instructions, you know, that were sent out or the request or whatever, you know, it was. And it wasn't for a lack of not wanting to, or not being bought into the idea or not like, you know, wanting to show up as the best version of themselves. But it's just like people are busy, they forget, they're overwhelmed, and having that same grace of not meaning that it's like like that that interpreting it as rejection is like one painful option that you could choose, but there's like so many other ways to interpret it and not make it mean anything about you. I love that. Okay, so you said something else too, in terms of like what tends to hold people back that you work with. And you mentioned self-sabotage. Can you tell them like what is that what does that even look like in this type of circumstance?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yes, I think that a lot of times I hear people say, like, why me? Like, I don't even not only is my story not good enough, I don't even have a story. Everyone else seems to have a story, and I don't have one. That's a big one. But after working with me, it's actually one of my favorite things to do with clients is to create their signature story. And that is such a valuable marketing piece because that's how you introduce yourself on podcasts, in workshops, in your speaking engagements. It's really, really important. It's ultimately it's your why, it's your origin story, and then positioned um to then show people about your journey so that then they see why why you're qualified and expert and you have the experience to do the things that you do today to help other people. So, number one, I I hear that is about a story. Um, and then of course, I just got started too late, I'm too old, or I don't have enough experience. Why is anybody gonna take me seriously? Uh, it's all of those things. It comes in any form for us. And so it's important to prove ourselves wrong. And so, if we take, for example, the I'm too old story, one of the things I like my clients to do is to find evidence of somebody else who has done it, either at their age or at an age older than them, to prove that, you know what? Okay, these are just things that I'm telling myself, the self-sabotage that are holding myself back. And at a certain point, I think what we also find, what I also find is we just get so sick of ourselves and our story that it's like, you know what? I've run out of excuses. Now what? Now I'm just gonna move forward.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

You get to that breaking point of your like, okay, well, I've explored all the deepest, darkest corners, and I'm this isn't helping me get to my goal, believing these set of stories where I'm really just counting myself out. Like you said, like before we even like get the car started and backed out of the driveway, you're like, oh, what's even the point? I would imagine too that just fear of like, okay, maybe I maybe I convince myself that I'm not too old or it's not too late, but like that I'm just not gonna show up as the best version of myself, because I'm gonna look silly. Like, is that kind of a non-starter for people as well? And like, how how do you even start to go around that? That's like, okay, I I believe I could maybe book the job or the interview or the podcast, but then like, what if I just embarrass myself? Stage fright, I guess, right? Is that like stage fright in a nutshell?

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Absolutely, absolutely. And I was just working with a client, she's so personable. She even puts out such funny like TikTok videos. I'm not on TikTok, but she showed me some of them and she's hilarious. And so when she revealed that she has such stage fright that she freezes, and it was going to be a problem for her because she must, she has to go out and meet people so that she can grow her business. So, how do you get through that? So I asked her, I go, well, what again, going back to creating that safety? I said, what has worked for you in the past? I always like to find evidence of how we were successful in the past. And she said, it really helps her to have everything written down. Whether or not she reads her speech, it's fine. Either she can read it or not, but just to have it written down so that it's not just, you know, off the cuff that's not gonna do well. She's not gonna do well with that. So we worked together and we put together a beautiful speech for her, and she had it all written down. And I attended her speech, and she was awesome. She was awesome. We also, I also like to um ask people like, is there a certain color you like to wear? Do you like have like a favorite shirt or or if you're uh you know, like power shoes that make you feel strong, or maybe uh certain pants or a dress or something, something so that you can embody that feeling or that image of yourself, because that's really what it is. We we need to create that certainty and feel it in our body, and it looks different for everybody, but that's where I would start.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Like kind of coming back to that controlling the controllables, creating certainty for yourself ahead of time, regardless of what's happening externally, knowing your message, you're not just winging it, because very few people are actually great at improvisationally coming up with something that sounds brilliant and cohesive and together. And all these things are things you can do ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

I love that. Okay, so what do you okay, I've got a curveball for you. So I'm thinking of some famously nervous people, celebrities who deal with stage fright. I'm thinking of Sia, right, who like wears the wig and covers her face, or even goes on stage and like faces the back wall or something while she's singing. Barbara Streisand, who they know their message, right? They know their craft, they're getting up, they're singing, but then they're still just like racked with, you know, the storylines of feeling insecure on stage. Like is that not even something that we should even really be concerning ourselves with if like it is Knowing your message get most people most of the way there? Or is it just like, yeah, this is that's part of the game? You're gonna have nerves and just take them with you.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Practice. And it's something practice. And that's it because it's something that if again, I'll just bring it back to music. Nobody and and I've taught piano on and off throughout my life. Like nobody wants to practice.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Nobody. But it's what creates that muscle memory and it takes that fear out of it because there's a familiarity again with it. And that's really the main thing. If you think about it, you would never press send on an email that you haven't reread. So much the same way, I wouldn't recommend just getting up on stage, having never reread, so to speak, your key messages, knowing what you're going to talk about, knowing what you want to say and where you stand on whatever the topic is. A great thing to do is even if you don't want to write everything out, which most people don't because it's just who can remember pages and pages. But even if you have like a great thing to do is if you're giving a live speaking engagement, whether it's on a podcast or in person on a stage, having like an index card or a half a page of just like your key bullet points. And then take one at a time and just practice, record yourself on your phone and practice what you want to say around that. And then in that moment, when you're done, listen back to it. That's a lot of people don't want to do that. But if you can get yourself to listen, look, either if if you're not listening back to it, your audience is. So you may as well, right? You may as well correct it if need be before anybody else hears it. Listen back. Or if even if it's on video, watch and choose one thing that maybe you'd like to change. Maybe there's a gesture you're doing, maybe there are filler words, maybe there's a word you hear that you don't like that you uh that you said, choose one thing. Maybe you missed saying something that you wanted to say, whatever it is, go back and redo it by making that one change. Listen again. And if you're comfortable knowing that you implemented that change, choose the next thing. Choose the next thing. Maybe you're on camera and you find that you keep running your fingers through your hair and it's distracting. Whatever it is. And then once you get to a point where you're it's comfortable enough, then you can move on to the next bullet point. And the next, you know, don't do this the night before, not fair to yourself, but do it over time. And then that's how you really become expert at what you do. And you're not gonna be really, you're not gonna be afraid because you've already done it. You've already done it a million times. So there's gonna be no surprises. You're prepared. That's the key.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

So what do you find for the people who actually do that level of preparation and make those iterative changes? You know, it's like, you know, just making a one-degree change, you know, can recalibrate you and you end up in a totally different, better, more ideal or preferred out uh destination, right? So like what what do you find is different about the people who actually heed your advice, make these changes, practice, even when it's boring, right? Even when it's like, oh, this is like I'm maybe I don't need this, or it it just feels too redundant, or so, you know, whatever excuses our brain is giving us. Like, what do those people who set themselves apart, kind of like the winner's mentality, right? Like, what do you find amongst those people who are successfully improving their skill at the way that they show up so they can make the most of these opportunities? Like what separating them from the rest of people who are just showing up and like winging it? Well, how are they approaching it differently, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Well, they just have a lot of fun. They have a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

So scary. So, like, how how okay, how do you make it fun?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

They have a lot of fun because again, they are very clear on what they're doing, and that clarity creates confidence, and then they just are excited to put themselves out there. It doesn't, that's not to say it doesn't come with fear. And like I shared, I think a level of fear is good, but that clarity creates confidence, and they're like, you know what? I'm ready. Let's do it, let's go. I imagine it's like, and I am not an athlete, although I was on the track team and I was on the swim team because those were the only two teams in high school that didn't have cuts. So they had to take me. I'm like slow as a log. Oh man. But I think I imagine like the athletes like ready to like get out on the field. They're like, you know what? They've done all the drills, they've lifted all the weights, they ran around the field, they did everything. Now it's game time. Let's go. That's how my clients feel who do all those reps. I like what Tony Robbins says. We get rewarded in public for that which we practice in private.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Yes. Well, so you may not be an athlete, but you are like a literal rock star. So, same thing, right? You would never just go up on stage, never having practiced, not knowing your piece, not like even having you know done it. And then yet we're expecting ourselves sometimes to just like be great at our subject matter, which we uh hopefully are an expert in our lane, and then also being great at communicating about it in an engaging way that makes people care. Because I don't know about you, but I've had, you know, different jobs that were not really interesting before. One of which was insurance, famously known to be boring, right? And it's like, how do you make people care about something that it's like unless it's relevant to them? No one just wants to learn about you and your subject matter unless you can like bridge the gap. So yeah, that would be a lot to try to integrate just on the fly and winging it. Do you have tips for like how you make people how you make people care about your thing in a way that's not just like you talking like the peanuts character, like wah, wah, wah, right? Where they're just going on and on, like like what do you is there something that we can kind of like implement as a little hack to help people care about our message and get them like brought into the journey and the story with us.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

And that's exactly it. Bring them into the journey and story with us. I mean, I think the you don't ever want people to feel like you're speaking at them. We as humans are much more interested in paying attention when we feel we're living through the story with you. So people will know that, will care when they feel cared for. And it's always about, it's a fun thing like to think about like a radio station, like you know, AMFM. This is like way back when. But the best radio station is W I I F M. What's in it for me? And that's how I like for my clients to share their message. Think about what's in it for the audience, because your client, your audience is thinking about that when they're listening to us. What's in it for me? Why should I care? So we have to make it about them. A hundred percent. And we can share our story through that, but it's really, it's not about us. It's about who we're talking to.

SPEAKER_02 52:48

Okay, so we're trying to think about demonstrating the payoff or like what's in it for them. I love that. I was like ready to write down. I was like, oh, I gotta look up this radio station with it for the okay. So, like, how is there a way we can incorporate that into maybe like a pregame ritual or something, right? Like, you know, as we're preparing or about to engage in some kind of media or even hit record if we're like just recording ourselves for social media. Like, is there some kind of like pregame ritual that you could recommend to help us kind of get into that frame of mind?

SPEAKER_00 53:22

You mean like to remind ourselves to take the focus off of us and onto the audience?

unknown 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Oh, yeah. You know, yeah, exactly. Well, one of my favorite images that came to me, I don't know when, is I think about myself on my favorite, uh, in my favorite venue in New York City, the Beacon Theater. And I imagine myself walking out on stage and looking into an audience of raving fans, people who are so excited to see me on stage, right? We can dream. Um, maybe one day I will be on the Beacon Theater. I've seen a lot of great concerts there. And I imagine that the spotlight is on me as I walk out. And then before I begin, I take that spotlight and I turn it and I focus it on the audience. And I am standing there and it reminds me to look out at them and that this is about them. That, and I've shared that with clients and they love that. And I said, you're free to borrow it. And so if any of you want to borrow that, by all means. But it's just a great way to also help us through overcoming the fear, right? Because when we make it about who we're helping, who we can serve, being visible becomes far less threatening of a feeling and far less scary.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

You're not making yourself the end all be all. It's with and I think as women maybe it's more comfortable for us to reframe it for ourselves as like, oh, we're doing this in service to the people that we're trying to help and serve. And like shifting the lens and the limelight to the others. I love that visual. And I also love the visual of everyone already loving you, because I think so often, at least when I think about, you know, think of like into shouting into the void, right? Seems like a scary place, or all the trolls we hear about, like the idea, the just imagining like a a theater or a stadium full of people who are like your raving fans, who are cheering for you, who view you favorably even before you've like opened your mouth, and they're like about it and it and sold on you and into what you have to say and excited. And like that's just such a powerful, even like subsection of your visual that just sets the tone, right? Of like, we're not trying to necessarily convert all the trolls and the haters. Like, they're probably not gonna be our best, you know, avenues to opportunities, anyways. But the people who were like, Yeah, you're my vibe. That's who I want to work with, that's who that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I care about that's what I need. Exactly. She's speaking my language, right? Like, those are the people that we'd want to work with, right? And who are probably gonna hire us. So exactly. Why not dream? Why not? No, why not imagine the best people?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Yes, think about the energy that you show up with when you have that thought and when you can really embody that feeling. Think about walking into a room, walking out on stage, walking into an interview, anything with that energy, knowing that, oh my gosh, people want to hear from me. They're excited for me to share my message, and I can help them and they're waiting for this great message. Show up with so much more energy and enthusiasm. And marketing is energy, energy is marketing. That's what sells. Whether you're actually selling a product, I don't even mean that. I just mean you're selling your message that you have to share, to connect with and communicate and help others. It's a very different mindset than it's like, you know, whatever the opposite would be. So I've had clients envision somebody rolling out the red carpet. I mean, they were in like beautiful outfits, and they envisioned the red carpet being rolled out and trumpets being played as they walk down the aisle with a red rope and all of that, the velvet rope. And whatever image works, I mean, whatever works, it's it's great. It's what empowers you, what gives you that energy, what makes you feel excited, right? We have to create that safety and certainty in our mind so that we've done the reps, right? So we've lived it so that we're so prepared so that we're not so fearful to show up and we actually look forward to it with fun.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

With fun, like you said, the most successful people have the most fun and approach it with that playful spirit, right? So it's like envisioning that warm welcome induces the sense of like fun, good vibes, good energy. Good energy attracts good energy, and that's what we all want more of, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

Um, you have the best energy. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. Like giving me a peek into your world, and I just know I could mine your mind for days on like tips, tricks, insights, what to do, what not to do. Um, because it's like the it seems like a big landscape to me out there. The when you think about PR and media and all the avenues that you could go with that as you're trying to figure out like which vehicles are going to be the best for me and my strengths and my business specifically, and how do I even get started? So, for my beautiful commit community members who would like a guide such as yourself to take them through the process, even to getting started. Do you have a couple of resources or like an easy way for them to just kind of even just start to explore? Like, is this even for me? Where would I even begin? What's what's something maybe that they could do if they wanted to explore working with you or kind of looking further into this?

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yes, thank you. So you can go to my website, which is Jen J-E-N Gool G O U L D Coaching.com, and you can click on and get a free get visible now strategy session with me. And another way is I have a downloadable resource. It's a template in Canva. If you want to put together your podcast one sheet, it's guided with a video by me, and that will help you just immediately put that together and you can start taking action right away to pitch yourself to be a guest on a podcast. And again, that's gengouldcoaching.com backslash three dash one O N E dash sheet. And people love that because you can customize that to your own uh brand colors and put in your photo and your key topics and signature interview questions, and you can have that ready pretty quickly and get out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

We love when it's like foolproof. You even have the video included. We're gonna hold your hand and walk you through this. You're gonna walk away with a great one pager and a session with you to help get them started. That's incredibly generous. So I'm sure some people are gonna take you off on that. Amazing. Thank you so much for doing this with me today, Jen. It's been a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

I had such a great time. Thank you so much for having me, Cara.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

Thank you. Talk to you soon.