Therapy Doesn’t Improve Marriage Outcomes | Here’s Why? | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep446

Cass Morrow, Author of Disrupting Divorce: The NEW Man. Saving Struggling, Sexless, and Toxic Marriages.

Kathryn Morrow, Author of Behind The White Picket Fence.

Why Therapy Does Not Work?

We ran the comparison—therapy, major marriage programs, and coaching competitors.
Here’s the headline: for most couples, therapy doesn’t meaningfully change outcomes—and the structure of therapy explains why.

In Ep446 of The ‘NEW’ Marriage, Cass and Kathryn Morrow break down the biggest reasons marriage therapy fails in the real world—and what actually works when one partner is “in” and the other is coasting.

What we cover:
• Why therapy often doesn’t move the needle on outcomes (and what the stats suggest)
• Therapists learn from textbooks; results require lived pattern-breaking + execution
• Kathryn’s story: “my therapist told me to leave and pack a go bag”
• The “hokey pokey”: one foot in, one foot out (performed participation)
• Why individual therapy can become validation + exit strategy instead of repair
• Outdated recommendations they’ve seen clients get (space, porn, swinging)
• Why most competitors don’t give you the expert—you get a trainee
• What Morrow Marriage built: $860K invested, Kathryn’s master’s track, 1.36M downloads in 2.5 years

⚠️ ANNOUNCEMENT
last call-in Q&A episode + what replaces it

Free live Zoom training: June 10th, 7–9pm Eastern / 6–8pm Central

Topic: How to move your marriage past symptoms to the root issues

🔗 Explore more resources and our story: https://www.morrowmarriage.com/

Join Cass Morrow and Kathryn Morrow, the resilient couple behind Morrow Marriage. Together, we share our unscripted, raw, and against-the-grain journey of saving our marriage from the depths of Hell. We battle narcissism, emotional abuse, reactive abuse, and physical and sexual assault, offering lessons, actionable steps, and real-life examples to inspire couples worldwide.

Our journey is a testament to overcoming adversity, with challenges including Cass’ restraining order, seven separations, and two divorce lawyers. If we can survive and thrive in toxic, abusive, and sexless marriages, what’s your excuse?

Both books are searchable on Amazon and often purchased together:

Disrupting Divorce: The NEW Man by Cass Morrow: https://a.co/d/31vm4bV 

Behind The White Picket Fence by Kathryn Morrow: https://a.co/d/f0diMvp

Discover our story, challenge societal norms, and help disrupt the 78% divorce rate. Subscribe, comment, and share if you find value as we strive to save marriages.

What to Watch Next:

Explore our journey through our podcast playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzgMDD_noj4rUVhb9v9alyZe5ws_Su0I4

Access courses, training, tools, and books at https://www.morrowmarriage.com/

Connect on Social Media:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cassfostermorrow
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cassfostermorrow
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cassfostermorrow

Learn More About Kathryn:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KMorrowMarriage

Help us disrupt divorce.

— Cass

#WhyTherapyDoesntWork #MarriageCounseling #CouplesTherapy #MarriageCoaching #TherapyVsCoaching #MarriageHelp #MarriageAdvice #SaveMyMarriage #RelationshipAdvice #DivorceHelp #MarriageCrisis #EmotionalIntimacy #CassMorrow #KathrynMorrow #MorrowMarriage

MorrowMarriage.com | Disrupting Divorce With The “New” Marriage

Cass and Kathryn came back from the depths of hell to save their marriage and keep their family together.  Battling narcissism, abuse, reactive abuse, emotional, physical and sexual assault. Listen as they share their lessons, actionable steps and real life examples from even the worst of their story. 

Unscripted, real, raw and against the grain from society’s example of marriage - currently leading to the demise of nearly 78% of all marriages today.

Inspiring couples around the world...

If they can save their marriage from toxicity, abuse and a sexless marriage - not only survive it all... but THRIVE... what’s your excuse?

Join Cass & Kathryn as they flip divorce statistics and fulfill their purpose in life.

Have your own questions or topics you would like us to cover? 

Let us know here: https://forms.gle/7R8GBAdmQRkuZ3NFA

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Why therapy does not work? Your partner's trauma is a gift. The hokey pokey is all her touch my feet. My narcissistic behaviors. My managing severe narcissism. Why are you afraid of rejection? Why therapy does not work and what will actually help save your marriage, guys? Welcome to the Moral Marriage Podcast, guys. And uh we're gonna restart our our calling show um with a little bit of information about why therapy doesn't work because this is coming up a lot. We did this massive, massive uh comparison analysis. I got I love AI. This sounds familiar, it's because the recording we did crapped out. So we're gonna.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I was like, yeah, I feel like we just talked about it right now.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Um Catherine never knows what we're gonna talk about. So essentially, AI is a gift, you guys, if you use it correctly. We used it to compare ourselves, our company, what we do, everything that um that is available for you and how we teach you, to compare it with um traditional therapy. The coolest thing you can learn about therapy and why you don't want to have therapists is not cool, I'm sorry to say this, but just the spit and facts, that as many as many people are getting divorced statistically, first, second, third, fourth, fifth marriages, therapists all have the same statistics. So that's your clue, your first clue that therapy doesn't work. Because if you're going to this educated person who learned about marriage not through experience, but through books, and they're educated.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Well, a little bit of a pen's taking here from the educated person in the room. Well, air quotes, if you're not watching. Educated.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Well, let me clarify, please, if you will. I think education is wonderful for those of you. Catherine recognized, talked to somebody the other day, actually, our children's uh homeschooling, homeschooling teacher, one of them, and was like, Cast just doesn't like going to school. I don't. I like learning through experience. I like learning through experiences that other people have gone through, like coaches. So, you know, together we have um invested about $860,000 into coaches, into education. She's in a new master's degree, if you don't know, um bridging what human services and uh counseling, what's it called?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Masters of oh gosh, human services counseling, marriage and family therapy.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

There we go. Yeah, okay. Doesn't make it's a lot of words, doesn't make her a therapist by the time she's done. However, with her experience and her education, with our experience and our education from people with experience from coaches, we know this works better. Why? Again, let's go back to statistics. When we're comparing this, um, all the competition, including therapy was obviously the first one we can go to. We can look at the Gobbins, very world world renowned when it comes to therapy. But one of the things we noticed with therapists and with our coaching competitors was crazy. We saw that almost all of them required you to have both partners in, in which case you're fucked in a lot of cases. Because even if you're both in, there's air quotes again, we both we sorry, we both, we all know what we're supposed to say. Okay. So, yes, I didn't want to do YouTube today, Andy. I'm tired of putting lives on YouTube. I'm gonna talk about that today on this, right now, okay? Thank you, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Um, okay, so if we know that you need to Cass likes to talk to our IT guy in case you guys haven't figured that out.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yep. So if you haven't figured it out, even if you're both in and you say, Yeah, I'm in, I'm going to therapy, yeah, I'm in, I love you. Of course I love you. I had a guy this week, 101. I asked him the question, do you want to? And that was referencing like he's not really making a great effort. Okay, getting lots of coaching. His wife is involved. She's I called her a Catherine, actually. Like, she's quite motivating and quite lifting. She has her moments, but overall, doing a great job using your program.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I'm interested in know who this is.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And uh, and so essentially, well, uh, we can talk about it later. But just so my point is this that I'm like, do you want to? And he says, Well, yeah, I want to, but the question is, do you really want to? We all know what you're supposed to say. In fact, we call it, if you listen to years of our podcast, the hokey pokey. One is in, one is out. Meaning one could say they're in, they're kind of coasting. That's not the same as in all the way. Okay, so that's a big problem when you look at competitors. That's a big problem when you look at therapists. Because if you go singular, which you are allowed to do with therapy, what do we see? We see a lot of people getting validated and told things like, uh, exactly who become our clients, by the way. Um, yeah, you should just take space. That's not fucking marriage. You should leave. You should leave.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Most therapists, our ours included. Yeah. I don't know if yours told you to leave me. Uh you didn't have therapy when you were with me.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

No, we did therapy. I did not buy individually, though.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

My therapist told me to leave and had me pack a go bag, which is what a lot of therapists are going to do.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, we talked about something recently, maybe a few months ago, that was like um somebody came to me and the therapist recommended, I think it was the pastor. I can't remember. That would be weird if it's a pastor, but it I wouldn't put it past them. But it was like, go, you should you should involve swinging. Some people recommend porn, all these things that we are dead set again. Hopefully it wasn't. I think it was we you guys are probably watching the podcast, you'll see it. But um, like at the end of the day, these are outdated solutions. Most of our competitors haven't even had near the struggle. Oh, here's a good one for you. They haven't had the struggle, and therefore they don't get on the coaching calls with you. They hire a team of people that they train to or certify, more air quotes, to be your coach. You don't even get to meet the people. Like you don't get to work with Cast and Casper. Could you imagine if we you hired us and then you didn't get to work with us? That's what's happening. If you're interested in this, I don't know what it's called on our website, moralmarriage.com slash what. I don't know, but the menu, the three bars, we have a why choose us, and there is a lot of information there just from this analysis that we did. It's fucking crazy. So I want to just reiterate before we start taking your questions, guys. By the way, one triple eight nine six eight five six three five, bring your marriage questions in, okay?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Do you want to give them the bad news?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Well, that's where I'm going with this, actually. You are yeah, yeah. So um, well, I just say I'll segue with that. The the bad news is, guys, get your questions in now. When we do our data and our analysis of how we're helping people and what's working, what's working the fastest and the best. So now we know 100% it's not therapy. It is coaching. We looked at our competitors, we know our the our story, the fact that you get us, the fact that we outnumber them in calls, uh, the fact that we have way more information. Uh, if you listen to my song, Always in the Gaps, we've got all the solutions that were in between, the books, podcasts, coaches, the therapy, life coaches, everything. Okay. And we give that all to you. Uh, and what we also notice is this that too many people are calling in looking for a solution in 10 minutes to 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah. And so this is the last episode we're gonna do. This what we're gonna do instead is provide free live training that's going to take some time. Okay, this will be on the website, I think, by the 31st, um, which this episode will air if you're not watching live. Um, so it'll be out already. But June 10th from 6 p.m., no, sorry, 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

6 p.m. to 8 p.m. Central. That's why he got confused.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Thank you. Um, we're gonna do an actual full training on how to move your marriage forward. And it doesn't matter what symptoms, whether you're dealing with an affair, whether you're dealing with um different kinds of betrayal, what I would call betrayal is like porn, uh substance abuse, disrespecting your partner, like the way you speak, disrespecting yourself, your vows. I mean, we can go on and on and on. We're gonna get away from all the things you guys are fighting about and actually teach you how to look at this at the actual issues, not the symptoms, and actually move yourself forward. Why are we doing this? But calling in and talking for again, seven to fifteen minutes and hoping you're gonna get an answer is actually just frustrating me. It's it's too much entitlement.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Well, not only just frustrating cast, but our viewers are getting frustrated by us talking to people asking the same questions. Even though you are some of our viewers, the rest of our million viewers are upset about it.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, so we're getting a lot of messages um specifically to the podcast saying, when are you gonna just go back to talking and teaching? And they don't want to hear you guys blaming your partner and not taking responsibility. And that might not be you listening, but it's pretty much every time we get on the phone with somebody. There was a couple that were really good calls, I think.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

But oh, we had some amazing calls.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Just because you've called in, don't assume we're talking about you because it's negative.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Correct. But what we have learned from looking at why we have achieved, like our biggest competitor, um, 25 years in the business. They're called Marriage Helper, okay? And they have only had one million downloads in their podcast. Now I'm sure their podcast has not been around for 25 years. I didn't care to look up the data, but in two years, well, two and a half years, we got 1.36 million downloads for our podcast. Who do you think's taking over the industry? That's our largest competitor, okay?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

And so VR, if you guys didn't answer that out loud.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah, so what we know is this if people are unhappy, if you guys are unhappy not getting the answers and solutions like we deliver them plainly, quickly on a podcast, and then of course, that's not gonna solve your problem either. Go through 450 episodes or join our programs and do more. But we can bridge the gap. What we can do is these live trainings. So June 10th is the first one, and we're gonna launch it with uh basically showing you how to move your marriage past the shit. If you guys ever wonder why we say we're not sweeping it under the rug, we just stopped fighting or dealing with, or can you make me feel better about or how can I get over, how can I rebuild trust when we're dealing with all this little symptom shit. That's putting band-aids on problems. And what we want you guys to do is get to the core, the root issues, and actually be able to move it forward. So you're not sweeping under the rug. Essentially, those things won't happen if you address the root cause. For example, if a man is having an affair with a woman at the office emotionally, let's just say they're texting a lot, he's not having sex with her, you're very insecure, he's going for late dinners with her, he's driving from, I don't know, Houston to Dallas, okay, and he's not even letting you know. He's like, fuck this, it's just work. You should just he doesn't want to be there for you. Those are all symptoms. We have a real deeper issues that I'm not gonna get into today. We're gonna go through the live training. So again, I don't know the website page, but um it'll be up on our website here right away, probably like morrowmarriage.com slash something online training. I don't know. It'll be there. Look in the navigation bar June 10th. I'll also put it on Facebook, okay, as an event if I can, because it's gonna be on Zoom, not on Facebook. Again, on Zoom, not on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Okay, so to click a link and join us.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yes. And then um from there, uh, we'll also be putting out ads because we want to help a lot of people, okay? So we're gonna invest in that so we can try to help you, okay.