Numisphere Podcast - Coins, Currency, Bullion
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Numisphere Podcast - Coins, Currency, Bullion
Buying Gold: Beware of Buyer's Remorse
Ever felt that twinge of regret after making an investment? Say goodbye to that feeling with our latest podcast episode, where Tyler and I steer you through the gleaming terrain of precious metals investing. With a blend of historical context and modern-day wisdom, we reveal how gold and silver can act as your financial stronghold amidst economic turbulence. From discussing the allure of 'God's money' to strategies that safeguard against market whims, this talk is brimming with insights that promise to equip you with a resilient, long-term investment mindset. You'll leave with a treasure trove of knowledge on how to appreciate the intrinsic value of these assets, dodge common pitfalls, and understand the influential behaviors of central banks and affluent investors.
This isn't just another investment guide; it's a blueprint for financial empowerment. We delve into the practical aspects of curating a precious metals portfolio, stressing the significance of a well-thought-out financial strategy and the principle of purchasing within your means. Prepare to explore the nuances of liquidating assets, the importance of an exit strategy, and the implications of a potential financial system reset on gold and silver values. Tyler and I don't just scratch the surface – we provide a behind-the-scenes look at how to stay informed through credible dealers and cultivate a disciplined approach to investing. Get ready to acquire the finesse needed to navigate the precious metals market and step closer to financial liberty.
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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed on The Numisphere Podcast are for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered financial advice. The content shared by the hosts, guests, or any participants of the podcast is purely their own opinion and not intended to be a substitute for professional financial advice. Always consult with a qualified financial advisor before making any financial decisions. The Numisphere Podcast, including its hosts and guests, does not assume any responsibility for any actions taken upon the advice given in the podcast episodes.
Welcome on into the new Misfphere. We have a very important episode for you today. This is called how to Avoid Buyer's Remorse. It's become a hot topic as of late, with many new comers into the precious metals investment arena, and we'd like to go over a few tips and strategies to avoid that exact situation. But before we delve there, let's talk about the foundation of investing in precious metals. Tyler, why is it that somebody may want to invest in precious metals?
Speaker 2:Well, historically, gold and silver have essentially been God's money. It's been a form of trade in human history for over 2,000 years and having something that truly has a combination of desirability, rarity and something that actually takes labor to get between finding it, mining it, manufacturing it. So when you take all those things together, it is a very desirable material because it allows a hedge to essentially difficult economic times, right so, high inflation, volatile markets, and while metal is not a guarantee, it has certainly been used as a form of investing that has helped to mitigate some form of risk.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, I think that risk is something that weighs heavy on people's minds these days. There seems to be a lot of risk within markets, kind of all around, and a lot of uncertainty about what may unfold in the near time and in the short term future.
Speaker 2:I mean, I hate to say it. Just last week we broke records with the stock market. How many times.
Speaker 1:I think we've been consecutive now in new record highs for the stock market for at least six consecutive months.
Speaker 2:Right. So when you just kind of keep going up and up and up, eventually you got to come down.
Speaker 1:It's starting to feel a little bit like a pressure cooker, almost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, quite literally a powder keg, because all of these things are lining that historically. Yeah, do not make any sense, right?
Speaker 1:You know one of the other things that sticks out to me about why it is we may want to invest in precious metals. I always think to the monetary system.
Speaker 2:What are?
Speaker 1:the people in charge doing. How do they see gold as a role in the financial system? And we look back to what the International Monetary Fund, or IMF, had instated in 2019, which was that gold was a tier one asset.
Speaker 2:So isn't it the only tier one asset, as?
Speaker 1:far as I'm aware, it is currently the only registered tier one asset for the world banking system and for the central banks. So you know, there's probably a reason why it is that they did that, why it's included in the portfolios for all these central banks across the world, sure, and also maybe why they've been buying in large amounts consecutively for the past three years and it's not just institutions that leverage precious metals to preserve their wealth.
Speaker 2:I mean the wealthiest families and individuals historically have held 10 to 20% of their assets just in physical gold and silver.
Speaker 1:Sure, they may not write that down on paper, but I suspect that that's the more likely.
Speaker 2:I'm sure a lot of them actually do you think so. I mean if they're above board, right?
Speaker 1:Well, that's questionable. But you know, when we think about investing into anything, there's always that assumption of risk, and even with precious metals there is risks that are involved. So if I'm a newbie coming into the precious metals market, what what risks do I need to be made aware of? That could happen with my money or my purchase power that I just shifted into those precious metals.
Speaker 2:I mean, the number one thing we always try to explain to people as they're just getting into it is this is not a get rich quick scheme. That does not happen in this realm. And if you have managed to do that with physical gold and silver, not paper contracts, then kudos to you, because it is a challenge. Yes, the reality is, of course, everything goes up and down, so you need to be able to take that investment and tuck it away, and we've set it before, essentially set it and forget it, right, and it's always there as a let's just say, like a backup or a savings account so you can liquidate it if you need to. But that's not the ultimate goal. Right Is that this is your preservation over a period of time. So that risk can be if I buy, let's say, if I only have $10,000 and I bought it all today at a spot price of $23.15 an ounce that you're locked in. You got a cost basis.
Speaker 2:That's how we know where I am, right, right, and I paid a premium over that. Let's just say a dollar. So now I'm in at $24.15. But let's say a year from now, spot price is pretty similar and I want to get out of it, right? Well, I'm going to get less than what I paid, because everybody needs their margin, sure, right, so you have to account for what a spread would be. Okay. So you need to be able to cover your premium. And now that spot price needs to rise to equal your cost in that premium, right? So if you're able to get spread that's what you're trying to manage when you're moving in and out Okay, you have to be able to cover that. So if silver drops down a dollar or $2 or, like we've seen some people, silver eagles, they were buying them $34, $37 and now they're averaging in around $28.
Speaker 1:Right, so when they come to sell, they're getting even less Right. That's a huge difference. So those people who are buying at top of market with that largest premium, they lost what that's probably substantial $16 to $18 in premium.
Speaker 2:I mean those are probably getting in at absolute highs. Yeah, and that's a big loss. I mean, look at like the 2011, 2012 time where people were paying over $42 to $45 for silver eagle Right, and just less than a year later in fact, I think it was only a few months later prices absolutely collapsed on it.
Speaker 1:Right, but to me it's almost as if the more premium is put on the precious metal that you're purchasing, the more risk you're exposing yourself to, at least in the short-term market situation. And we're not trying to knock on eagles either, because those have their own specific benefits that we'll get to later in the show.
Speaker 1:Right. But if you get in and you're at a high premium and let's say that the market doesn't quite perform to where you were hoping it would be, some type of liquidity crisis comes up in your personal life and you need to get out of this position. You're going to be biting it, basically, and that is really an uncomfortable situation and it would obviously put a large distaste in your mouth from investing in those precious metals.
Speaker 2:And I just I want to say keep in mind, we're not trying to scare people with this. This is a worst case scenario that's happened over the last decade. Plus, if you take specific steps to mitigate that type of risk, you can be very successful with investing and holding physical metals.
Speaker 1:That's what we want to get to with this is, how do we avoid situations like that particular one and actually achieve goals with what it is that we're trying to do here? Awesome, well, I think that, because we discussed kind of some of these risks here, it's important to also discuss what the benefits may be, and I think that purchase power and preservation of purchase power is a huge benefit.
Speaker 2:Well, it's definitely.
Speaker 1:Right, we used that example. I think we might have even said it on a previous episode. Here you have a $20 gold piece and a $20 bill in your pocket. This is back in the 1920s. Either one of them would have got you that dapper suit at the nicest tailor in town. But if you had paid with the $20 bill and kept that gold $20 piece, you'd still be able, with that purchasing power, to get the nicest suit, probably at the nicest shop.
Speaker 2:I would say a decent.
Speaker 1:At least a decent today standard. Absolutely Okay. We're not talking Gucci, right? We're not talking Armani.
Speaker 2:If you were to have held the $20 bill and the $20 gold coin in your safe back in 1920, you'd take it out today $20,. You're lucky if you can get a meal at McDonald's. That gold coin should get you into a good looking suit, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think that that's kind of the example, the vice versa right. If you had kept the $20 bill in your pocket and you tried to spend that $20 bill today, you're lucky to get out of it with lunch right. That's kind of the diminishing that we see here with fiat currency versus the gold, but at the same time that gold has maintained its purchasing power even through the deterioration of fiat currency.
Speaker 2:Right. So that's an assumption in accurate numbers, but I know in the past we had done it where something like 97% of your purchasing power has been lost since like 1913.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I've heard quite a few numbers. The most recent one that I heard was actually even more aggressive, but it was something to the tune of 99.85% of purchasing power. It was extreme. But even if that isn't the case right and obviously there's different metrics that go into saying how it is that it's been reduced and its purchasing power it is evident that it has happened and has happened dramatically. It seems to be on the last legs of purchasing power. Thank you, Joe Biden. Right, or is it administration or those that are at the wheel?
Speaker 2:for this financial system. We know the whole situation is not just on the president, but it's a culmination of many years of intentional decisions, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And obviously, with all the things that we go through, change seems to be imminent. So I hope that we can be prepared for when that change comes. And how do we best prepare? Exactly, how do we best prepare? So if I'm a newbie and I'm coming into precious metals, obviously there's a gamut of different products to pick from, but I want to avoid those risks that we talked about, so I want to get into a lower premium product. Does that sound about right?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's case by case, okay, as you need to understand what that individual is being motivated by, okay. So, for instance, for us, we have everybody from teenagers in high school to retirees that are scared, right. So, for each stage of life, each situation, each budget, it's different, right. So if we were to say just kind of a general broad spectrum, low premium is a, in my opinion, the foundation of any precious metal investor, okay, or collector, or stacker, however you want to look at it, okay. So by getting that lower premium stuff or product and you do that over a period of time where your cost averaging your buy-in, you really set yourself up for a little bit more of a diversity within your portfolio, okay, so you can move in and out, hopefully at a better price point.
Speaker 1:Now it's interesting, you use the term dollar cost averaging. So in order to maintain dollar cost averaging in this game, you're consistently buying as the market shifts up and down, to make sure that your spread is equal to the market fluctuations, right.
Speaker 2:So that kind of goes back to what we were saying a moment ago, where you don't want to spend your entire investment on one product at one price, right? Right, so you're being able to buy at $23 today and next week it's $22.50. And you catch a dip the week after and you hit $22. And then the week after you're up at $25, right. So yeah, your numbers are up and down, up and down, but your average is what you should be concerned with.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So let's say you've acquired a thousand ounces and you managed to get into that at an average of $23. Over time you can sell a little and not feel as bad or lose as much, sure, and you can continue adding to that and hopefully continuing with the market to get that better cost average.
Speaker 1:Now let's say that I think that this is a really important thing and I'm going to go after it full throttle. Should I be spending a car payment every week, if maybe I have trouble making that car payment?
Speaker 2:And that's not right. I'd be of the opinion no, okay, right. So for real newbies, kind of a rule of thumb we like to tell them is if you can't afford to make your purchase three times over today, you shouldn't do it I see.
Speaker 1:So basically, make your purchase, but make your purchase a portion of your comfort money, of your disposable, your disposable income.
Speaker 2:So you should always be able to take care of any obligations you have to your home, your family. Your bills Okay, Priority one Okay. Then you take your extra, you're spending money, your savings account, whatever else you're doing with it. You know, if you were a smoker buying 10 packs a week, well, cut that down.
Speaker 1:But a smoker can go buy some silver.
Speaker 2:Okay, absolutely, that can add up to quite a bit, right? So you're saving in multiple ways, but by moving forward with that you're able to.
Speaker 1:Well, I think I felt what you were going with here. So, basically, if you were consistently doing that and you had that cushion money, you're avoiding like, in my opinion, one of the most consistent things that happened for a new investor, and that's where you've over leveraged your position into precious metal and you kind of restricted your cash flow. That's exactly where I was headed. And then what happens is a boiling point. It's that one off, oh crap, I need a new set of tires or breaks need to be changed, and your whole economic game is kind of shifted. And then you're put into a position where you're saying to yourself where am I going to get the money? Then you look to your stack to liquidate, right.
Speaker 2:So that's what we were saying with the three times over is I don't want to have you come in today all excited, make your purchase, right, you're going to get back next week and you're going to hate me because you're not getting your money back. Right, you're most likely going to take a loss.
Speaker 1:It becomes discouraging, right, and if you're actually setting out to do this with goals in mind, it's important to manage how it is you're going to approach it with your spend. Right, absolutely, and really to frame that out, we got to have goals, and that differs for everybody. So let's talk about a couple of those positions, because there's all different types of stackers or bullion collectors out there.
Speaker 1:Some of the more common ones that I see are those that have built precious metals purchasing into their standard financial behavior. Right, so they're doing this either on a monthly basis or a quarterly basis. They're taking an allocated portion of their disposable income and they're putting it into the precious metals consistently and repeatedly in order to build.
Speaker 2:And if you haven't seen episode six, we talk with someone just like that. That's our friend Brian, Absolutely Definitely. Go and check that episode out.
Speaker 1:And then the kind of ultimate benefit there is that once you have gotten to a certain level which everybody sets their goals different and it might be to how your lifestyle may be, that would dictate how much you actually want but you can get to the point where you are your own bank, Certainly, and liquidating in and out of that stack.
Speaker 2:Government over time, making that a regular habit. Yep, and the goal is, by using metals specifically, you're creating the savings account that you can't just make a transfer Right. I can't hop on my phone. Okay, I need to move a hundred bucks for my savings account. No, it's more difficult. You got to go down to a shop or somewhere else actually sell the piece Right, it takes time, effort, it's not convenient to get out of it Right Per se, comparatively to, you know, transferring money between accounts. So it's definitely that extra little layer that slows you down from using that first, absolutely.
Speaker 1:If you're, my opinion is fantastic, because I'm really bad about transferring money between accounts like no big deal, no big deal right, yeah, but if you have that labor of doing so, you end up thinking twice about what it is that you're doing financially and if you can keep yourself on track. That benefit of becoming your own bank can be used in so many different ways to help yourself out and any family member or any situation that may come your way. But what happens if, let's say, I Don't know, I wanted to spend Enough to get myself 10 ounces of gold and I wanted to do that in a low premium situation, like we talked about right, reducing my risk and Then I wanted to be able to get out of all that gold all at once. In order to get that low premium stuff, I might have gotten up some generic or maybe some sovereign bullion that might have been issued from other countries. When I go to cash out, what things do I need to be aware of?
Speaker 2:So it differs for different parts of the world, but for here in the United States, if you were to have been purchasing American gold Eagles or gold buffalos, mm-hmm, you can pretty much buy and sell, trade as many of those as you'd like Okay, with no additional Factors to really consider. Okay. But if you come to us and you say, look, I've got 11 ounces of Krugerans, okay, well, now we've fallen into a reporting obligation Because we've crossed over the threshold of how many ounces you can sell that are non American okay so that aren't issued by the US government.
Speaker 2:Okay, and because of that, in my eyes, the the government wants their piece, right?
Speaker 1:Right. So there's, that's a document, correct. That's a document that's right, available to the IRS or for any that correct the IRS.
Speaker 2:So the purchase gets documented and shops like us have to send that in, okay, and then you're obligated to report any potential gains or losses on your own personal taxes. Why, shops and buyers are not obligated, but, okay, those that are selling in that scenario. So you could have purchased those, let's say, krugerans at $1,500 now, but you're selling to me at 2,000 now's. You have a $500 per ounce gain. Now you're on the hook. Oh, right, so now you're gonna have to pay your taxes on the long-term gains. Again, we're not accountants, we're not advisors. Take it with a grain of salt but that's our understanding.
Speaker 2:So if that's not a scenario you'd like to be in, you got to be more strategic with what you're purchasing, how you sell it Mm-hmm, and understand those factors before you start actually getting your hands on it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that that's important to me now. So some people may not want to liquidate 10 ounces at one time, right. But if other people are looking to do that threshold or to move that quantity at one time as a part of their purchase and exit plan, having that consideration is important. So that might be where the benefit of a Sovereign, us issued bullion is going to come into play for those people. Now that's important to note because Typically in that scenario, you'll be dealing with a higher premium product. Right, then you would be dealing with you and Buffalo's definitely have a bit higher premium at your buy-in Then, compared to Krugerans, britannia's maple leaves and non us pieces.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I look again, that's you're backed by the US government, which is supposed to be one of the strongest economies in the world, and they're kind of building in their piece of the pie up front. Okay, so they're getting theirs, whether it's a US issue or they always get there as we know that, we know that, but they get theirs up front, essentially.
Speaker 1:Well, that's so. That's really crucial to me. So if you have kind of those motivations, you need to be evaluating that when you're going in for those purchases. And Even though premium can be viewed as risk, you may have a better benefit sitting with you in the slightly higher premium product than that of the lowest premium on the shelf Exactly, and that's why it comes down to when you're getting into this.
Speaker 2:You really need to have a firm understanding of what your personal long-term goals are. Are you passing this down to the family? Are you never going to touch this again? Are you holding for five years and then you plan to have some type of liquidation, for whatever reason? Have an idea ahead of time so that you can place yourself within a strategy that fits your goal.
Speaker 1:There's many different types of goals out there. We have a preperomantality goals right, where they want liquidity for a broken-down economy. Even that needs some consideration for premiums right. Getting into fractional pieces both in the silver and in the gold end can lead to higher premiums, but they also offer better liquidity in a bartered situation.
Speaker 2:So, even within the preperomantality, there are different strategies as well. Right, because there are people that are fearful that our economy will collapse and something will rebuild and whatever's. On the other end, the way that they will transition their wealth and purchasing power will be through a tool such as gold and silver. So if we have a revaluation, whatever that is, it's the idea that that will transition them to be better. On the other end, right. Then there's always the zombie apocalypse mentality right.
Speaker 2:So when it all breaks down, collapse where you need to have something recognizable and something that's barterable, right? So it's not usually going to be a one-ounce piece for gold, it'll be fractional sizes that are something that most population knows, or a lot of one-tenth gold, eagles, that type of thing. Right and same. When you hop over to the silver aspect, so constitutional coinage which, if you're not familiar, 1964 and earlier the United States was using 90% silver in their coinage. So quarters, half dollars, dimes and dollars.
Speaker 1:I guess Right dollars will obviously the peace dollar and back.
Speaker 2:Right. So, there's a lot of different strategies within that as well, and whatever your personal goals are, again just make sure you're aligning with that ahead of time, so that way you're not investing over here when you should be going off over here.
Speaker 1:And I always like to help those customers who may be preparing for something similar to that and trying to accommodate their wishes. But let them know that really it only makes sense to a certain point and then, after you have that amount of liquidity that you desire, looking into more larger pieces with lower premium is probably to their advantage?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's I mean, like all things, like why we're even talking about investing within metals is you need to diversify, right? So having all of your purchases only on fractional stuff, I mean there's a limit. At some point. You need to move on to the bigger pieces. You need to be smart with how you're spending your money and investing your money Absolutely, and that's not always going to be on the small stuff. Now it's interesting you say that.
Speaker 1:I think there's one other piece that we need to consider here too. Well, which metal do I choose, and which one does what right, or which one has that potential benefit that the other may not carry, and why would one be desirable in one situation compared to the other?
Speaker 2:Again, it comes down to personal belief, right, right. So a lot of people, you can tell them a million and one things and share your opinion and the data that you've found, and everyone's going to form their own opinion. That's just the case, of course. So some people are of the mindset that silver has the higher potential return, that you're looking at that as more of an investment because silver, in the eyes of some, is highly suppressed and you have more opportunity for growth on the silver side, okay Whereas gold is often viewed as a preservation. So it's kind of like that, you know, tortoise versus the hare, okay got you Tortoise that just kind of started moving along right, okay.
Speaker 2:So even though we do see pretty good size spikes up and down on gold over time, it's been kind of the consistent performer, okay so. Preservation versus investment with potential return.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense. I know that we encounter quite a few people that look to value maybe silver over gold and they leverage the ratio, stating that in the timeline of 3000 plus years of monetary use, gold to silver, silver was traditionally 15 to one as a mean statistically. Now here we are in today's market and we're trading at 80 plus to one, which is a dramatic difference. So the thought is that if it ever got back to its natural ratio, the price point of gold were stagnant is that silver would have to 6x.
Speaker 2:What did you say to?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I never see that coming back. Okay, I think that the change in the landscape of the financial world with paper contracts and fractional lending and potential manipulation excuse me, potential manipulation that we'll never see that type of ratio again.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's disheartening. I know that a lot of people are hoping I'm probably going to upset a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Please let me know in the comments.
Speaker 1:Well, I obviously have a hopeful mind frame. I'm coming from the perspective of it's all going to reset and everything goes back to the way it should be. That's the uber-optimist point of view. If that were to happen, I feel like both gold and silver would benefit. Here we are on the brink of a financial crisis. Let's say gold gets revalued. Let's say the commodities exchange stops having the ability to dictate the world average price of silver. If we saw a natural migration, I think that both would just do phenomenal compared to our fiat dollar.
Speaker 2:So put a potential number on it for silver. Let's just go with silver on this one.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm going to shoot from 50. No, I think we can do better than that. 75. I think we can go better. 100. I honestly think that it would be somewhere over 100 bucks. I'm thinking 110 is what sticks out in my mind.
Speaker 2:I would honestly hate to live in a world that's silver's trading at $110 an ounce.
Speaker 1:Why. Because what's a loaf of bread gun cost oh man, you're right, because all of these values are relative to the purchasing power of the US dollar. That's a great point, one that you should thoroughly consider.
Speaker 2:So, as you can see, multiple opinions, everybody has their own.
Speaker 1:So with this obviously, guys, this is really important stuff you need to walk in with a solid plan of what you're doing and asking the question of what is the exit, starting with knowing how you wanna get out of it, or what is the purpose of your mission to incorporate investment into precious metals? Having that framed is gonna help guide you to making better decisions on what it is that you purchase, when and in what quantities. If you can frame that out and you can be diligent and disciplined to stick with your plan, the liberation that comes.
Speaker 2:Oh, the freedom is amazing.
Speaker 1:The freedom is amazing, right, but if you get tripped up, refer back to those things that we may have said. What were you put into one of those situations? Because maybe you weren't aware of that potential problem or consideration that you needed to have when getting out of it. These things can help save you a lot of money. These things can help keep you motivated to stay in the game and to watch yourself build your personal wealth, for yourself, for your family and, if it's aggressively, generational wealth. So many benefits, so many pitfalls. You gotta make sure that you're stepping carefully. So please make sure that you consider those things, those risks that we've discussed.
Speaker 2:And I think just one other I guess tip we could say for that is we have those customers that come in weekly, monthly, and a lot of it is just having a honest conversation about what we see happening in the landscape, what kind of budgets they have, why they're motivated to do it. So find that group of people or that local coin shop dealer or bullion dealer that can help you and challenge your thought process Right. So yeah, they might get under your skin because they have a different opinion. They'll get thicker skin because the conversation is worth it right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Having multiple perspectives and understanding of geopolitical, financial, historical, current market trends, premiums, all of those things. The more you know, the more power you have and the better decisions you can make for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that 100% and truthfully, when you take these steps to make that plan and you start practicing it, you're helping yourself avoid one of the largest difficulties when it comes to precious metals investing, and that is the emotional turbulence that comes with watching the markets when you've leveraged your personal wealth into these commodities, because that, honestly, can be one of the most stressful scenarios and has discouraged a lot of people from staying in the game because of that emotional up and down when the markets swing.
Speaker 1:But if you have a solid strategy and you're sticking to it, you've prepared for that mentally and you're gonna be a lot more confident in those purchases as you continue to go along. So stay less emotional, more methodical.
Speaker 2:do this with a purpose and you'll be able to achieve that liberty, that ultimate benefit that comes with stacking precious metals.
Speaker 1:With that, I guess we should probably let people know where to find us. Where to locate us, tyler? Where can they find us?
Speaker 2:I'm just giving you an awkward pause for a moment. I know well I'm used to that. Yeah, so we are currently revamping our website, wwwahcoincocom. That should be live in the next few weeks. You'll be able to have all kinds of inventory options there for you, so we're excited for that. So keep an eye out. You're very excited.
Speaker 1:We're working hard on that, by the way. Yeah, you're doing a great job, a labor of love.
Speaker 2:So we're also Facebook Instagram at Numosphere and our cameras just turned off. That's unfortunate. So now you just get to listen to our audio. But with that, yeah, thanks for listening in again. Tune in for the next episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as the Numosphere turns. All right, you guys have a great one. We'll see you then.
