Bronson

In this episode we dive into the wild, chaotic world of Bronson (2008), the stylized film starring Tom Hardy, and unravel how it compares to the real-life story of Michael Gordon Peterson, better known as Charles Bronson. We break down what the movie got right, what it exaggerated, and what was left out entirely. From Bronson’s early life and first arrests, to the decades he spent in solitary conferment, to his transformation into an underground celebrity. Join us as we discuss how “Britain’s most violent prisoner” became a myth with a life story worthy of the silver screen.

 Primary Source:

• Bronson, Charles. Bronson. 2009.

Instagram: @CriminalAdaptations

Email us: criminaladaptations@gmail.com

TikTok: @criminaladaptations

X: x.com/CriminalAdapt

Theme: DARKNESS (feat. EdKara) by Ghost148

Chapters

• 0:00 New Year, New Season Kickoff
• 1:26 Who Is The Real Charles Bronson?
• 3:26 Tom Hardy’s Transformation And Access
• 6:11 Refn’s Style And The One‑Man Show
• 10:20 The Film’s Opening: Chaos As Character
• 13:25 Psychiatric Transfers And rooftop Protests
• 16:40 From Release To Bare‑Knuckle Branding
• 19:45 Hostages, Art Therapy, And Escalation
• 23:10 Release, Reception, And Awards What‑Ifs
• 27:25 Budget Shock, Box Office, And Legacy
• 31:10 The True Story: Childhood To First Sentence
• 35:35 Spiral Of Transfers, Solitary, And Violence
• 39:50 Broadmoor Roof, Poetry, And Diagnoses
• 44:15 Second Release, Bronson Persona, Re‑Arrest
• 48:10 The Cages, Absurd Demands, And Standoffs
• 52:45 Life Sentence And The Parole Battles
• 56:30 Art, Aliases, And Public Image
• 1:00:15 Psychology, Accountability, And Harm
• 1:04:00 Objection Of The Week
• 1:05:45 Verdict: Mistrial
• 1:07:25 Next Up: Loving Preview

Transcript

Ashley: 0:13

Welcome to Criminal Adaptations, the show where we take a look at some of your favorite movies and the true crime stories that inspired them. I'm Ashley. I'm a clinical psychologist and forensic evaluator in the state of Oregon.

Remi: 0:27

And I'm Remy. I spent over a decade working in the film and television industry in Los Angeles, California.

Ashley: 0:33

Hello and welcome back, everyone. Before we get started, we want to say Happy New Year! I hope everyone had a great holiday season, a splendid New Year's Eve celebrating with those that you hold dear. And let's just say 2025 was not the best year for the family. So here's to hoping that 2026 is a little bit better than 2025. Remy, how are you doing today?

Remi: 1:07

I am doing okay, all things considered. And yes, happy new year, everybody. We are glad you can join us for another year of analyzing true crime films and figuring out what they got right and what they got wrong. And today we have a interesting character that we will be discussing, and he is a bit of a fighter that goes by the name of Charles Bronson. But not that Charles Bronson. The Charles Bronson you probably are thinking of is a film actor who is best known for playing rugged, tough guy roles in action and revenge films, including Death Wish 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 from 1974 to 1994. No, that is not who we will be discussing. Ashley, who are we discussing this week?

Ashley: 2:01

We are discussing Britain's most notoriously violent prisoner, Michael Peterson, aka Charles Bronson, aka Charles Salvador, which I believe is his current name. Rummy, had you heard of Charles Bronson before this podcast?

Remi: 2:19

No, I had not heard of him at all, actually, until I saw this film. And I have since learned that apparently he has garnered quite the reputation as being the most violent prisoner in all of Britain.

Ashley: 2:34

Yeah, and everything I read, spoiler alert, this guy is serving life behind bars, but not because he killed someone. It is simply because of how out of control he was in prison. And I must say, I read his biography, listened to a couple YouTube interviews with him, and he does stress that it is unfair that he is spending life in prison despite never killing anyone. But it's not for lack of trying. I have a lot of thoughts about this guy, which I'm sure we're gonna get into throughout today's episode.

Remi: 3:07

Yeah, while you were doing your research for this, there were a couple of moments where you would pipe up and just say, I can't stand this guy. But we will get into those reasons, of course, in just a bit. Now, this film stars one of the most successful actors of our modern time, Mr. Tom Hardy, a man who has done incredible work in films like Inception, The Dark Knight Rises, Fury Road, and The Revenant. Do you have a favorite Tom Hardy film offhand, Ashley?

Ashley: 3:42

I would probably have to say Mad Max Fury Road, just because I watched that on an airplane, which it should be watched on a much, much bigger screen. But I kind of threw it on thinking, like, oh, I'm probably not gonna like this. And I loved it. He is so good in it. He's also great in The Dark Knight Rises as Bane. Another role where his vocal range is really in the forefront of that character.

Remi: 4:11

And I, of course, totally agree with you. Fury Road is amazing. I am a diehard Batman fan, but The Dark Knight Rises does not hold a candle to Fury Road. And you're also correct in that he basically does a different accent in just about every single role that he does. And we have a little compilation of all of Tom Hardy's accents right here.

Tom Hardy: 4:38

You need the simplest version of the idea in order for it to grow naturally in your subject's mind. That's a very subtle art. Yeah, you know, I'm glad you stayed. Everything worked out for you. We got no way you understand this world. We got about as much sense as a bird flying in the sky. Let's not stand on ceremony here. Eddie, it's your dad. Is uh is your mother there? From some poor young lord who you pumped full of opium in one of your casinos. Further examination of the victim's body and witness testimony saw multiple contrusions. At least that way, you know, we might be able to come across some kind of redemption. Why? Was he playing with this little boy's mama? Huh? He'd kill her. When you see him next, you tell him for me, yeah, that I say, fuck Charlie, and fuck his brother, and fuck that fat Georgie Cornell that hangs out with him.

Ashley: 5:31

He is quite the eccentric character, I must say.

Remi: 5:34

It is always risky when an actor decides to take on a elaborate accent of some sort for a role, but Hardy does not shy away from it at all. He basically does a different wacky accent with every role that he does. And this film is no different, which our audience will hear plenty of during my portion because he narrates the entire film. Now, this film is also directed by Nicholas Wending Reffen, who is not really mainstream, but has done a few movies which I loved, like Drive and Neon Demon, but most of his movies are usually very slow and extremely stylistic, so they're definitely not for everyone. But if anyone out there hasn't seen any of his work, you should go check out Ryan Gosling in Drive. But enough about all that. Ashley, are you ready to get down and dirty with Tom Hardy as Bronson?

Ashley: 6:38

I sure am. Let's fight.

Bronson: 6:41

My name's Charles Bronson. And all my life I've wanted to be famous.

Remi: 6:48

Bronson is a 2008 British film directed by Nicholas Wending Reffen, based on a script written by Reffen and Brock Normanbrock, starring Tom Hardy as Michael Peterson, aka Charles Bronson. British screenwriter and playwright Brock Normanbrock was the primary writer who created the original script for Bronson.

Ashley: 7:12

That is a choice for a name.

Remi: 7:14

Well, he had to include his middle name, otherwise his name would literally be Brock Brock. So my heart goes out to Brock Brock. That is an unfortunate name. The Bronson Project had been floating around for years, passing through various different directors, including British photographer director Rankin, who I've never heard of, but he was actually the first person to approach Tom Hardy about the role. At that point, Hardy wasn't a big name yet, but he'd been working steadily in British television, and had small roles in projects like Band of Brothers and Star Trek Nemesis, where he played Patrick Stewart's Younger Clone.

Ashley: 8:01

Did you ever watch Band of Brothers? I did not, but it is regarded as one of the best miniseries to ever be made.

Remi: 8:08

I did. It was a really, really long time ago when I first got out of high school. I went through like a film binge period where I was just absorbing all of the most critically acclaimed media that I could find. And Band of Brothers was amongst that. And it was a really, really well-made show, but from what I recall, every single episode had a million different famous actors in it, so it would be pretty hard for me to remember Tom Hardy's role in this. The person that sticks out for me the most in Band of Brothers for whatever reason is David Schwimmer, who is only in the first couple episodes, but he is great. Eventually, Danish filmmaker Nicholas Wending Reffen got a call from his UK distributor asking if he'd be interested in directing a film called Bronson. After reading the script, Reffen thought it was pretty average at best, referring to it as basically a lads movie, but still saw promise in the material. Though initially apprehensive, the producers explained that if Reffin didn't agree to direct, that the project would basically be dead, which convinced Reffin to accept the job. Once Reffin had signed on, he ended up completely rewriting the majority of Brock Normanbrock's script to better fit his own uniquely stylistic vision for the story, though Norman Brock is still credited as co-screenwriter alongside Reffen. Reffin initially looked at actors like Jason Statham and Guy Pierce for the lead role, but none of those other options ever panned out.

Ashley: 9:54

I could kind of see Jason Statham, I could not see Guy Pierce. That is so weird to me.

Remi: 10:01

I totally agree. I don't think Guy Pierce would have worked in this role at all, but I do kind of think that if Statham bulked up a bit, he would weirdly fit this part perfectly.

Ashley: 10:14

Guy Pierce also seems too old.

Remi: 10:16

Well, this was back in 2008, but yeah, I think Guy Pierce was already aged out of this part by then, anyway. A few months later, Reffin finally met with Tom Hardy again, who had remained interested in Bronson since the very beginning. Reffin said that the moment he laid eyes on Hardy, he immediately thought to himself, Oh my god, you're Charlie Bronson. Where have you been? Hardy explains what initially attracted him to the project in the following interview.

Tom Hardy: 10:51

What attracted me to the film, um, Charlie. Nothing else, just Charlie, you know. I I don't care who wrote it, I don't care who filmed it, I don't care whether it was a play, I don't care whether it was um, you know, like TV, you know, go for Channel 4 or BBC film, and you know, with it wouldn't matter to me. The only thing I'm interested in playing is Charlie and finding out about who Charlie is and you know what Charlie wants done with his piece to the man and how I can case it to Charlie without being, you know, Charlie's puppet.

Ashley: 11:20

It kind of sounds to me like he just wanted an excuse to meet Charles Bronson.

Remi: 11:25

He really was 100% in on playing this character no matter what. And I also just got to comment really quickly that he looks like a baby in this interview. He is very, very young. Reffin himself was never allowed to meet the real Charles Bronson, since foreign filmmakers are rarely granted access to violent high security inmates. However, he was permitted to phone calls with Bronson, with the line, It was absolute madness at its very best, being taken directly from the man himself during one of those calls. Tom Hardy, on the other hand, was allowed much more direct contact with the man he would be portraying, since Hardy is a British-born citizen who had a documented professional reason to speak with Bronson personally. After being cleared, Hardy spent a lot of time speaking with Bronson over the phone and earning his trust, before later meeting him in prison to study his mannerisms. During their first face-to-face encounter, Bronson said that he wasn't fully sold on the idea of Hardy portraying him at first. But Hardy reassured Bronson that he would fix it.

Ashley: 12:43

I actually listened to a recording that Bronson made about meeting Tom Hardy and just kind of his reaction to the whole movie in general, and he talks about this in it. He says the reason he wasn't fully sold at first is because Tom Hardy was small when they first met. And Bronson was like, Look at me, I'm the strongest man alive. You're a pipsqueak. Yes, exactly. And there wasn't a lot of time before filming was set to start, so he just doubted whether Hardy could bulk up in time. But during the second visit, apparently all of Bronson's reservations were squashed.

Remi: 13:25

And you are 100% correct. Hardy only had five weeks before filming began. So he basically ate non-stop in order to put on as much weight as quickly as possible.

Ashley: 13:38

Bronson actually said in that recording that by the time they met for the second time, Hardy had gotten more muscular than Bronson was, which is insanely impressive and kind of scary that he was able to put on that much weight so quickly.

Remi: 13:54

Hardy also worked hard to get Bronson's voice, body language, and intensity right, so that his performance felt like an honest portrayal instead of an exaggerated caricature, which I think would be very easy to do with this type of person. Despite Hardy choosing not to adopt Bronson's habit of doing 2,500 push-ups a day into his training regime, Hardy still somehow managed to pack on enough pounds to win over Bronson's approval. In fact, Bronson was so impressed by Hardy's transformation that he literally shaved off his own trademark mustache and sent it to Hardy to wear in the film. Bronson later stated, I honestly believe nobody on the planet could play me as Tom did.

Ashley: 15:10

What a mad respect.

Remi: 15:14

It is pretty impressive that Tom Hardy earned this particular man's respect.

Ashley: 15:28

But this clip was taken before he even saw it. It was like right after it came out.

Remi: 15:33

Filming took place in and around St. Anne's and Sherwood districts of Nottingham, as well as Worksop and Wellbeck Abbey in the North Nottinghamshire. All of those places sound extremely UK to me. The entire film was also shot chronologically, which is rare, though Hardy later said that shooting everything in order helped his performance evolve naturally as the story unfolded. Now, are you ready to get down to business and discuss Nicholas Wending Reffens Bronson?

Ashley: 16:13

Yes, I'm ready for what I'm sure is gonna feel like a fever dream of a movie.

Remi: 16:19

Them's foint words. The film opens with Bronson, played by Tom Hardy, standing in a spotlight on a stage, introducing himself to a full theater, looking like a turn-of-the-century strongman, bald, heavily built, and barrel-chested, sporting a classic curled handlebar mustache. The scene then cuts to Bronson naked in a small grated cell covered in black grease, pacing in circles like a boxer warming up before a fight.

Ashley: 17:06

It was boot polish.

Remi: 17:08

That's what it was? I had absolutely no idea what he was supposed to be covered in.

Ashley: 17:13

I only mention it one time, but he covers himself in boot polish so many times. I'm assuming to make him look just crazy and also more difficult to get your hands on him. But each time he talked about rubbing boot polish on himself in his memoir, I was just like, why is prison staff still giving him this stuff? Just make him wear dirty shoes.

Remi: 17:36

Yeah, do prisoners need boot polish? It seems like Bronson would have had that taken away at some point. But at least in the movie, he covers himself in all sorts of crazy grease and paint and things like that.

Ashley: 17:50

Well, as we'll get to later, he does eventually get that and pretty much everything taken away, but it takes a very long time for that to happen.

Remi: 18:00

Well, seconds later, a team of guards in full riot gear enter, launching Bronson into an all-out attack taking on all comers single-handedly, before inevitably succumbing to the guard's brutal baton beatings and sheer numbers. As Bronson falls to the floor, we see a gleefully blood-soaked smile etched across his face, seemingly reveling in the chaos he's caused and positively loving every moment of it. The film then flashes back to Bronson's childhood, where we're told through Bronson's own narration that he grew up in a normal home with parents who were perfectly ordinary. At this point, he was still using his birth name of Michael Peterson, though these days he, of course, is much more widely known by his preferred fighting name of Charles Bronson, which I will continue to refer to him as for the rest of my section here. As a teenager, Bronson began regularly getting into increasingly violent physical altercations with other students and occasionally the teachers as well. He eventually lands his first job working at a deli, which he promptly robs before kissing a co-worker as soon as the boss steps out. Model employee here. When the police come to Bronson's home to confront him about the theft, he responds by attacking both officers and viciously biting them. By 1974, he's gotten married to a woman named Irene living in a small apartment with their newborn baby. One day, Bronson robs a post office with a saw-off shotgun, stealing roughly 41 pounds and some change, resulting in a seven year prison sentence.

Bronson: 20:07

I've always fancy Mons and always be a comedian. Seven years.

Ashley: 20:21

What do you make of the director's choice of having him in clown makeup at the beginning of this scene?

Remi: 20:27

He is wearing different styles of makeup throughout the film. There is a framing device in Bronson, where Tom Hardy as Bronson is sort of presenting his story as a one-man show in a theater in front of a audience. And during various scenes, he will be wearing clown makeup or dressed in drag or even singing. And honestly, I think it makes the story way more visually interesting and just more creative. I really, really, really dig the style of this film. This director didn't have a lot of money to work with, and he did a lot with a very, very low budget.

Ashley: 21:13

And just how this guy talks and presents himself, it makes sense that it was portrayed as a one-man circus, really.

Remi: 21:22

He is a very unique character, and I think that Reffin translated that visually onto the screen very successfully, in my opinion. During his prison stay, Bronson refuses to participate in vocational training, and instead takes on five prison guards for his insubordination, earning him a stint in solitary confinement. This is not the last time Bronson will be in solitary confinement. Sometime later, while serving up a spot of Earl Grey during prison tea time, Bronson meets another inmate named Paul Daniels, played by Matt Superhans King, who casually comments on Bronson's brutish physique while giving off some serious Andy Warhol factory vibes in the process. Inevitably, Bronson loses his chance at an early parole due to him repeatedly assaulting the other inmates and officers, but claims that he didn't mind since he found prison to be quite quote unquote!

Bronson: 22:30

I liked it personally. I thought that I loved it. It was exciting, it was on the edge, it was madness at its very best. Problem is, once you get comfortable, or sometimes even before, they ghost you again and again, moving you from prison to prison. And I fucking hate that. Parkhurst, God bless that place. The accommodation was more than worthy of my royal self. Yes, Parkhurst was cool cut. Strouse? Not my favorite place to visit, but the staff are ready to make your stay as memorable as possible. Let alone how we love.

Ashley: 23:20

So fun fact, he mentions ghosting in there. Remy, do you know what that is?

Remi: 23:25

It's not when you don't call someone back after a date.

Ashley: 23:30

Well, it is, but when it refers to prison transfers, it is talking about when high-risk inmates are moved with no notice to prevent them from settling, organizing, or retaliating. So it's basically transferring them from prison to prison so they don't get too comfortable.

Remi: 23:51

Oh, so it wasn't due to his violent behavior?

Ashley: 23:56

I think for him it was a mix of things. They didn't want him to get too comfortable to risk riling up other inmates, and it just became quickly apparent that no facility could or wanted to contain him. He was out of control.

Remi: 24:13

Well, because prison authorities couldn't safely keep Bronson in one place without endangering those around him, prison authorities determined that his behavior could not be managed within the normal prison system, resulting in Bronson's eventual transfer to Rampton Psychiatric Hospital, where he is drugged and sedated into oblivion, rendering him as harmless as marshmallow fruit salad.

Ashley: 24:41

Yum.

Remi: 24:42

I was looking at her, like, you're not gonna say anything? I said marshmallow fruit salad. That's like the weirdest food I could reference here. Despite being heavily tranquilized throughout his stay, Bronson still somehow manages to muster up enough strength to strangle another patient with a necktie, earning him a one-way ticket to Broadmoor Asylum for the criminally insane.

Ashley: 25:07

So he was transferred to Broadmoor in late 1979. Remy, we have discussed in this podcast another movie and person who was at Broadmoor. Do you remember who that was?

Remi: 25:21

I'm trying to think of another person in the UK that we discussed, and I'm just coming up blank. Who is it?

Ashley: 25:28

Anthony Blakeland from Savage Grace.

Remi: 25:32

That's why I couldn't remember it. I blocked that movie out of my mind. That's the worst movie we've ever discussed on this podcast.

Ashley: 25:40

He was actually at Broadmoor until June 1980, so they overlapped by about six months.

Remi: 25:46

One can only imagine if they happened to cross paths during their stays there.

Ashley: 25:52

Bronson mentions a lot of people he met during his incarceration in his memoir, but Anthony Blakeland is not one of them.

Remi: 26:02

Well, we then cut to a musical performance from Bronson wearing Ziggy Stardust style makeup, singing David Cassidy's When I'm a Rock and Roll Star, while actual archival footage of the real Bronson during the Broadmoor rooftop protests is projected onto a screen directly behind him. Now I'm just gonna personally comment on this. I believe that this was filmed this way due to financial restraints, and honestly, the first time I saw this movie, I had absolutely no idea what was happening, and I just thought it was a weird artistic flourish that they added to the film. I did not understand that the footage playing behind him was of a real life incident. Bronson later boasts that the incident caused tens of millions of pounds in damages to the hospital's roof due to fire set during the standoff, earning him a reputation as Britain's most expensive prisoner.

Ashley: 27:09

In the book, he said the damage was 100k.

Remi: 27:13

According to Bronson, the system basically just got tired of dealing with him at this point, so declared him legally sane and released him after more than a decade behind bars. Now a free man again, Bronson moves back in with his parents, but soon takes a train to Lutton to stay with his uncle Jack and try to make a name for himself. As it turns out, Bronson's old prison pal, Paul Daniels, also lives in Lutton, leading to a potentially lucrative business partnership between the two men. What sort of business, you ask? Why, fighting business, of course! But Mickey Peterson ain't no name for a fighter, no, sir. So old Mickey's gotta pick out a brand new name that sounds a bit more intimidating. Something like, oh I don't know, Charlton Heston. Or better yet, Charles fucking Bronson. Thus began Bronson's back alley bare-knuckle boxing career, kicking things off with a bang in his very first fight by beating his opponent senseless, then urinating on the poor schlub as he lies incapacitated. Though Bronson only earns roughly 20 quid for his efforts, he is reassured by Paul that there will be more to come as his reputation continues to grow. So Paul is basically his manager slash booking agent during all of this.

Ashley: 28:47

That's exactly who he was. He was a promoter.

Remi: 28:50

For Bronson's next tussle, Paul arranges a two-on-one fight, which Bronson wins single-handedly. He is later pitted against a rabid Rottweiler at one point, which Bronson also easily decimates.

Ashley: 29:06

He said in his book this is one of the things he regrets the most because he loves animals, but he got like 10k for it.

Remi: 29:14

During this period, Bronson begins a sexual relationship with a woman named Alison, played by Juliet Oldfield. But he is disappointed when she tells him that she already has a boyfriend named Brian who rides a motorbike. Bronson responds by going to a jewelry store, assaulting the manager, threatening the clerk, and stealing a $1,300 wedding ring. He then returns to Allison's and proposes, which ultimately ends in heartbreak when she declines by bluntly stating that he has no ambition. Plus, she and Brian are already engaged. Bronson is soon arrested and reincarcerated for the whole jewelry store incident just 69 days after his initial release. Back behind bars, Bronson takes a prison librarian hostage in his cell for seemingly no apparent reason, leading to the following conversation between Bronson and the prison governor played by Johnny Phillips.

Ashley: 30:22

And quickly, prison governor is basically like a warden, the person in charge of each prison.

Tom Hardy: 30:38

There's nothing wrong with my hearing, you can't. What is it, Charlie?

Bronson: 30:44

What is it, Charlie? Well, Andy. What do you want? What have you got?

Ashley: 31:24

And Andy Love is the real name of this first prison hostage. And I say first because poor, poor Mr. Love is not the last.

Remi: 31:33

And I just love the actor's reaction on his face after Bronson hangs up with the warden. He has a look just like, oh no, now I'm stuck alone in a cell with this crazy man.

Ashley: 31:49

Also, just like an interesting side note, throughout this hostage situation and the several others that happened throughout Bronson's incarceration, the authorities are more than willing to negotiate with him. When I was applying for an internship with the federal prison system, there was a whole training. When I was applying, this happened. There was a whole online training that was all about if you're taking hostage, sucks to be you. We ain't doing nothing.

Remi: 32:19

So they will not negotiate with inmates.

Ashley: 32:23

No, they sure will not.

Remi: 32:25

After waiting for the guards to arrive, Bronson strips naked, lathers himself up in Greece, and proceeds to take on any and all officers who enter his cell. He is, of course, eventually restrained and ends up bloodied, gagged, and in a straitjacket, locked away in solitary confinement yet again. Later, Bronson takes part in a prison art therapy class and begins drawing violent cartoons as an alternative outlet for his aggression, eventually gaining him a small reputation as a bit of an artist. His cousin Lorraine even sends him art supplies as a sign of encouragement, and for a short while things actually seem to be improving. This all changes, however, when Bronson offers one of his paintings to the prison governor as a sort of peace offering, only for the governor to completely disregard Bronson's work directly in front of him. In response, the next time Bronson is alone with his art instructor, he attacks him, renders him unconscious, and ties him to a pillar gagged with a Granny Smith apple. He then paints the instructor's face to resemble his own, and demands that music be played throughout the standoff. Bronson is naturally totally naked and covered head to toe in black body paint throughout this entire ordeal, wearing nothing but a derby hat and a pair of circular sunglasses. After placing the hat and sunglasses on the instructor, Bronson yells for the officers outside to come on in, leading to another all-out brawl between Bronson and multiple prison guards, as the classical music crescendos, and he is inevitably subdued. The film ends with a title card reading. He has spent 34 years in jail, 30 of them in solitary confinement. He has not yet been granted a release date. The final chilling image is of Bronson beaten to a bloody pulp, babbling incoherently, restrained inside a solitary cage so claustrophobically small that he is unable to even sit or move, as he desperately gasps for breath in total isolation. And that was Nicholas Wending Reffens Bronson. Any initial reactions, Ashley?

Ashley: 35:05

So the cage he ends up being put in is 12 by 6. So he can sit, he can move, he can lay. It is total isolation, but it's not as suffocating as this scene would lead you to believe.

Remi: 35:20

This image is like burned into my brain. Just this bloody beaten man trapped inside the smallest cage imaginable. It's just really, really an impactful image. So it's not surprising that he was kept in a realistic cage as opposed to one you're not able to sit down in and has absolutely no amenities.

Ashley: 35:46

I think it's probably more of a metaphor to what years of isolation and segregation can result in. There is ample research out there in the mental health field about how prolonged segregation has disastrous effects on people's physical health, but also their mental health and emotional stability. It is something that can break even the strongest person, much less any sort of individual who has any sort of mental health struggles already. People are not meant to be kept alone in the dark without any sort of human contact. It will damage you. So, Remy, you had said you'd seen this movie before. Did you have any sort of reaction to it or thoughts during the rewatch?

Remi: 36:37

I still really like this film, and I think Tom Hardy's performance is amazing, and I really dig the ultra-stylistic vibe that the director brought to it. And honestly, it's not really a very interesting story. It's a guy who's in prison for fighting. But I think that Hardy and Reffin managed to turn the story into something much more artistic, and as a result, much more interesting than the source material.

Ashley: 37:12

And Hardy does resemble this man the closest he can, with his build, bald head, mustache, and the glasses he wears. That's all physical aspects of Charles Bronson that really set him apart from all others.

Remi: 37:28

Well, let's dive into the release of Bronson. Bronson took about four years from its initial conception before the cameras finally rolled. But once principal photography began in February of 2008, things moved fairly quickly, with the film having its official premiere at the London Film Festival just eight months later.

Ashley: 37:55

It does seem from the scenes you showed me that much of this, I'm assuming, was shot on lots. There isn't a lot going on in the background.

Remi: 38:06

No, it's all in the visuals. There's not a lot of story going on here, but the visuals are so captivating, it keeps you interested the entire time. And it's only a 90-minute film as well, which p helps. The premiere of Bronson opened with a recorded message from Bronson himself, taped inside HMP Wakefield, stating, I'm proud of this film, because if I drop dead tonight, then I live on. I really was a horrible, violent, nasty man. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed either. See you all at the Oscars.

Ashley: 38:48

That's some wishful thinking, dude.

Remi: 38:50

Well, the problem is that it's illegal in the UK to make unauthorized recordings of prison inmates, which led to the British Prison Officers Association filing a complaint against the film, which had this section removed, though Bronson's message was still included on some very early DVD editions. I was not able to locate it, unfortunately. Bronson went on to have a limited release in the UK on March 13, 2009, and later in the US on October 9th of that same year. The film currently has a 75% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes based on 79 reviews with a critical consensus that reads, undeniably gripping, Bronson forces the viewer to make some hard decisions about where the line between art and exploitation lies.

Ashley: 39:48

So I actually have a question.

Remi: 39:56

Without a doubt, this film deserved a cinematography nomination at the very least. But I also think that Hardy's performance. Was deserving. He is incredible in this role. But the style of this film is really what stands out the most. So if it was gonna be awarded with anything, I think that is the category that it would be best in.

Ashley: 40:23

Okay, well, for best cinematography, the nominations were Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, The Hurt Locker, and Glorious Bastards, White Ribbon, and Avatar won. So I can definitely see Bronson in there. Maybe like the Hurt Locker. I don't remember that being extra beautiful. I know it won Best Picture that year. But Avatar, that's kind of a unbeatable cinematography.

Remi: 40:49

No offense, but Ditch White Ribbon. Has anyone heard of White Ribbon? Bronson should be in that spot.

Ashley: 40:56

And for Best Actor, the nominees are George Clooney, Up in the Air, Colin Firth, a single man, never seen, Morgan Freeman Invictus, and Jeremy Renner, The Hurt Locker. The winner was Jeff Bridges Crazy Heart.

Remi: 41:12

Personally speaking, I think Tom Hardy's performance is better than Jeff Bridges' performance in Crazy Heart. Jeff Bridges is amazing in Crazy Heart, but he's kind of playing a similar character that he's played a few other times, just more realistically. I think Hardy was able to craft a really, really unique character here from meeting Bronson in person, and he nailed the depiction when he was on screen. In my opinion, of course.

Ashley: 41:46

Well, that was a fun little exercise. I think in future episodes moving forward, time permitting in a movie like this, where it wasn't really nominated for anything, it's just kind of fun to think what could have or should have been.

Remi: 41:58

Have you ever heard of Elijandro Jordowski?

Ashley: 42:02

Definitely not.

Remi: 42:04

He is a very surreal filmmaker who almost directed Dune several years ago, and there is a documentary called Jordowski's Dune, which I highly recommend. And it would have been crazy, it almost had Salvador Dolly, Mick Jagger. It was gonna be a crazy film, but he wanted it to be like nine hours long. But him and Nicholas Reffen are close friends, and he often dedicates his films to him. And for Bronson, Jordowski said that he had a spiritual orgasm when he first watched it and called it incredibly artistic.

Ashley: 42:47

Based on the scenes you showed me, it is an artistic movie. I don't think I had a spiritual orgasm from them, though. But to each their own.

Remi: 42:57

Reffen and Jordowski actually met by chance in a bookstore where Jordowski saw a poster for Bronson and asked Reffen what it was about. The two became friends, and Jordowski eventually presented Valhalla Ryzen, which was Reffin's follow-up film, on Reffen's behalf. So, alright, I have a question for you, Ashley. If you were to just guess, shot in the dark here, how much would you think that this film cost to make?

Ashley: 43:30

Based on the fact that Tom Hardy was a relative unknown at the time. There wasn't a lot of set that needed to be produced. It was really just Tom Hardy taking the screen by storm. I would have guessed in 2008, at least half a mil, maybe up to one.

Remi: 43:50

I would have guessed around five million because usually movies cost a few million to make in general. But this one only cost 230,000 to make, which is insanely cheap for a movie that looks this good. Well, on this modest budget, the film went on to earn more than $2.2 million in theaters during its extremely limited release. The real Charlie Bronson wasn't allowed to see the film at first, but said that as long as his mother liked it, he was certain that he would too. And according to Reffin's DVD commentary, Bronson's mother absolutely loved it.

Ashley: 44:36

Through all of this, it really is heartbreaking how supportive his family is of him. They try to write letters and really be his grounding force throughout his entire life, despite him doing things that are not only sabotaging his chance at freedom, but it's harming your family because whenever someone acts out in prison, their privileges are restricted. So there are several times where his family are showing up in visits, but they can't see him because he's in segregation for punching someone earlier, or his calls are restricted, or he's doing things and it is tearing his family apart.

Remi: 45:16

And if I were to add something to this film, it would be more of that family aspect. The mom and dad are kind of introduced at the very beginning through montage, and then they're just kind of pushed to the side and we don't see them again. And I think something like that would be very valuable in presenting that other people care about him on the outside and what he is doing is actually affecting more than himself.

Ashley: 45:45

Yeah, there were his parents, his cousin Lorraine, which he described as really his best friend, several aunts and uncles, grandparents, even close friends that really tried to stay in touch with him. This guy was being moved at a moment's notice all across the UK, and no matter where he was, people still tried to visit him, which is remarkable.

Remi: 46:10

Well, the real Bronson was finally granted permission to view the film on November 15th, 2011. After the screening, Bronson praised the film as theatrical, creative, and brilliant, though he did disagree with a few aspects, such as the distance shown between him and his father, and the portrayal of former prisoner Paul Edmonds. Bronson also pushed back against the idea that he enjoyed prison life, saying that he actually despises it and has suffered serious physical and mental trauma from being incarcerated.

Ashley: 46:52

I was actually surprised from that scene because throughout his book, from the beginning, he is basically saying, I am acting this way because I am retaliating against the system. I don't think there was at any point based on his autobiography, so again, it's coming from Bronson's words, but what I will say is this man doesn't shy away from highlighting moments in his life that most people would be incredibly ashamed to admit they did. So I do think he portrays the good and bad aspects of himself. But again, at no point did he say, I'm enjoying prison, I'm enjoying how I'm acting. It really comes across as something that he's like, I don't know why I'm doing this, I'm just so angry.

Remi: 47:43

Well, despite these critiques, Bronson was extremely impressed with Hardy's performance, stating, If I were to die in jail, at least I live on through Britain's number one actor. As it turned out, Bronson was spot-on in his assessment of Hardy's acting chops, because after Bronson, Tom Hardy's career blew up, with his performance putting him squarely on Hollywood's radar and playing a big part in Christopher Nolan casting him in Inception, which eventually led to him playing Bain in The Dark Knight Rises, firmly establishing Hardy as one of the most versatile actors of his generation. Nicholas Wending Reffen went on to direct Valhalla Rising in 2009, a highly stylized Viking-era film starring Mads Mikkelsen as a mute enslaved warrior named One Eye, traveling with a young boy through a violent mythical landscape. Though the film went on to earn critical acclaim for its starkly bold visuals, it wasn't a commercial excess, grossing only around $731,000 worldwide, against a production budget of $5.7 million. Despite Valhalla Rising's lackluster performance, Reffen's reputation for uniquely visual storytelling continued to grow, leading to, I'm just Ken's Ryan Gosling personally approaching Reffen to direct his next film, Drive. Reffen accepted the job because it gave him a chance to bring his own aesthetic to a more mainstream story. Drive went on to become Reffen's most successful film to date, earning over $81 million worldwide on a $15 million budget.

Ashley: 49:43

I love Ryan Gosling, but I did not like Drive.

Remi: 49:46

I did not like it the first time I saw it. I've grown to appreciate it. I think the opening scene is phenomenal, but it is a slow burn, just like most of this director's other material.

Ashley: 50:03

I just like Baby Driver so much better.

Remi: 50:06

Gosling and Reffen continued working together for their follow-up film, Only God Forgives, about a drug-smuggling American in Bangkok who's forced into a violent showdown when his ruthless mother demands he avenge his brother's death. A behind-the-scenes documentary titled My Life, directed by Nicholas Wending Reffen, made by Reffin's wife, Liv Corfixon, follows their family during the production of Only God Forgives in Bangkok, and shows Reffin wrestling with the creative pressure, anxiety, and self-doubt following the massive success of Drive, and is a brilliant glimpse inside the challenges and turmoil of Autour filmmaking. And I highly recommend it to any film students out there.

Ashley: 50:57

I'm kind of surprised that Gosling and Ruffin did these two movies and then never worked together again. You think they could have gone on to become a dynamic duo of sorts.

Remi: 51:10

Only God Forgives was a massive failure. So I think that's what put a stop to their working relationship. I'm pretty sure Gosling's agent or manager said, no more refin films. I personally really like Only God Forgives, but again, I will say it is definitely not for everyone.

Ashley: 51:32

Well, and I think this is a time in Ryan Gosling's career when he was trying to play these really deep, dark, gritty roles. And then after this, I mean he still does it with Blue Valentine and the place beyond the pines, but then he does kind of start branching out into more comedic chops.

Remi: 51:50

And I also just have to comment that his character in Drive and Only God Forgives probably has about maybe 50 words of dialogue total.

Ashley: 52:03

And zero personality.

Remi: 52:05

Gosling is good in these films, but it's not really showcasing any of his acting abilities. He's basically a visual prop in these films. But that is Nicholas Wending Reffin's Bronson, a tale of a burly, brutish prisoner? But that is just the cinematic version. Ashley, do you want to tell me and our audience the gritty, graphic, real story of Bronson?

Ashley: 52:36

I would try to do an accent, but I'm so bad at them, so I'm not even gonna try. Let's do it. He was a quiet, introverted, well-mannered boy who grew up in a close-knit working-class family.

Remi: 53:22

Introverted, you say? That is not what I would have used to describe this man having watched the film.

Ashley: 53:29

He was the middle of three sons, raised by Ira and John Peterson. His older brother, also named John, was 19 months ahead of him, and his younger brother Mark arrived seven years later. As a child, Peterson had a deep fondness for animals. Alongside the family's boxers and birds, he kept frogs and mice in the garden shed, charging neighborhood kids a few pennies to peek at his makeshift zoo. By all accounts, his childhood was happy and stable. His parents worked hard and made sure their boys always had something to look forward to. Sunday outings, holidays at the coast, and a week at grandma's every summer. His favorite hobbies were simple and wholesome. Fishing and playing chess or cards with his dad and grandpa. Despite all this structure and support, Michael Peterson started to change when his family moved to Ellesmere Port in Cheshire. By the age of 13, he fell in with a group of boys who spent their days skipping school and weekends stealing from local shops. Their crimes weren't sophisticated, mostly petty theft from kids who were bored, restless, and hungry for excitement, but they were enough to land him in juvenile court once or twice. Peterson later claimed that around this time he experienced his first urge to kill. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just the idea of it. One day, this impulse became too great to ignore. He recalled standing by a tree near his house while holding a milk bottle and waiting for a stranger to walk by. When no one appeared, he smashed the bottle over his head in frustration. At school, his growing violence resulted in repeated expulsions for fighting. He dropped out at age 15 and got his first job at a supermarket. He only lasted two weeks before he was fired for assaulting a manager who chastised him in front of customers.

Remi: 55:30

So, Ashley, I have to ask, you are a psychologist. What would you attribute this drastic change in his behavior to? Because it seems like he was just a normal kid who was enjoying fishing and had two ordinary parents, but he fell into the wrong group and then suddenly wanted to kill so badly that he smashed a milk bottle over his head because he was mad that he couldn't?

Ashley: 56:00

You know, I really don't know. From what I read in the book, there is nothing that has happened in his childhood that would make him be so angry. The only thing he kind of cites around this time is that his brother actually went away to the military at this time to finish up his schooling in military school, and he didn't realize how close he was to his brother until he was gone, and he just kind of felt alone. So I don't know if it's a mixture of that. He's torn out of an environment he knew and is forced to make new friends, and it was hard for him. It's really kind of bizarre.

Remi: 56:38

I can understand being a teenager and getting into fights and things like that, but his level of just aggression and violence is kind of out of left field.

Ashley: 56:51

A lot of times when things like this happen, it's because when you're a kid or an adolescent, you don't have the words to verbally express your pain. And so it is presented in more external ways. So that's really the only explanation I can think of. He didn't know what to say to describe how he was feeling. He didn't even know what he was feeling, and so he was just acting out to get out his frustration.

Remi: 57:21

So you're saying he was having temper tantrums?

Ashley: 57:24

It's a little more than temper tantrums because he literally was waiting by a tree to try to severely hurt someone. In the years that followed, Peterson drifted through a series of odd jobs, mostly at factories or bricklaying. The wages were decent, but his temper meant nothing lasted long. By age 16, his free time revolved around fighting, drinking, and experimenting with prescription pills. He was repeatedly arrested for low-level crimes, criminal mischief, theft, driving violations. But each time he escaped with fines, probation, or suspended sentences.

Remi: 58:03

I mean, these are like minor infractions.

Ashley: 58:06

The only big one was a hit and run where the other driver was in critical condition for a while. He did end up surviving, and Peterson had his license suspended and had to pay fines for the rest of his life to handle the man's hospital fines and psychological damages. Peterson made a brief attempt at straightening his life out in 1971 when he met Irene Kelsey. The relationship moved quickly. Within a year, they were married and welcomed a baby boy, also named Michael Peterson. He took a job working at his father's painting company, but secretly continued his life of petty crime and clubbing. This was his life for the next two years. Shortly after the death of his grandfather, 21-year-old Peterson, armed with a replica pistol and sawed-off shotgun, robbed a post office, garage, and tutor mansion all in one week. In 1974, he pled guilty to armed robbery and was sentenced to seven years in prison.

Remi: 59:11

So he was like on a crime spree for a week, basically.

Ashley: 59:15

Peterson's first major stretch behind bars began at Walton Jail, where it quickly became clear he was incapable of coping with the structure of custody. Violence became his release valve. Six months in, after what should have been a grounding visit from his wife and son, he snapped and attacked another inmate out of pure frustration and immediately felt better after. In this windowless, barren cell, his rage only grew. His behavioral pattern solidified with each passing transfer. Whether it be a small slight or a mundane order, anything could trigger an explosive assault or property destruction. He was routinely stripped, bound in body belts, drugged, and left for weeks in isolation. Each outburst or escape attempt added months to a sentence. His behavior snowballed into something no jail could or wanted to manage. Meanwhile, his family life also crumbled. Visits from his wife and son grew infrequent and eventually stopped altogether when he was served divorce papers in 1976. At Armley Jail, Peterson began the intense fitness regimen he would later become known for. Endless press-ups, sit-ups, squats, and shadow boxing. But physical discipline did nothing to temper his aggression.

Remi: 1:00:50

I actually just watched a video this morning on Mike Tyson and his training regime while he was incarcerated. And it is astonishing what a person can do physically with nothing but endless time on their hands.

Ashley: 1:01:08

And unfortunately, physical discipline did nothing to temper Peterson's aggression. He was confined to the punishment block for his entire stay because he was considered too dangerous.

Remi: 1:01:19

Is the punishment block like solitary confinement or is it just a more secure area of the prison?

Ashley: 1:01:25

This guy spends most of his time in solitary. He was allowed one shower a week and one letter home. Yet he still found opportunities to assault others and concoct escape plots, which inevitably led to more transfers and time behind bars. Over the next two years, Peterson was shuffled endlessly between prisons. During each move, he was transported in body belts and cuffs, sometimes naked, sometimes strapped in wheelchairs, and always in the presence of many, many officers.

Remi: 1:02:10

He did like to be naked a lot.

Ashley: 1:02:12

Wherever he landed, he typically remained in disciplinary units due to nonstop defiance, refusing orders, assaulting inmates and staff, destroying property. Even when he briefly managed to avoid physical confrontations, he still found ways to inflict harm. For example, after clashing with another inmate, he crushed glass into dust and mixed it into the man's sugar. Days later, the inmate began pissing blood. This is one example when he says, I never killed anyone. I shouldn't be in prison for life. True, but like you tried, dude. You tried real hard several, several, several times. And the psychological damage that this man inflicted upon so, so, so many people can be just as damaging.

Remi: 1:03:05

Yeah, it's kind of hard for me to buy that he wasn't trying to kill this man, whom he was putting crushed glass in his sugar.

Ashley: 1:03:15

He did that because he wanted to poison the guy and couldn't, so this was his plan B.

Remi: 1:03:20

That is so much worse.

Ashley: 1:03:22

In 1976, Peterson was sent to Parkhurst, one of Britain's most notorious prisons. For a short time, he managed to stay out of trouble, until a confrontation with a guard ended with him spitting in the officer's eyes and threatening to kill him. After being transferred yet again, he was caught preparing an elaborate escape attempt, complete with a rope and makeshift grappling hook. He also attacked another inmate, leaving him permanently disfigured. More time added to his sentence. After his grandparent died, grief was layered over years of isolation, depression, irritability, and paranoia. By the late 1970s, following brief stints back at Walton and Parkhurst, the only places willing to house him at the time, neurologists diagnosed him with epilepsy and hysteria, while a forensic psychiatrist labeled him a psychopath.

Remi: 1:04:28

Do you think Bronson is a psychopath?

Ashley: 1:04:31

So that's kind of a loaded question because psychopathy isn't actually a diagnosable mental illness in the DSM, which is the book psychiatrists and psychologists, at least in the United States, use, but he definitely has antisocial personality disorder. This man shows a reckless disregard for the rules, the laws, the rights of himself and others.

Remi: 1:04:58

But he does seem to know that what he is doing is wrong.

Ashley: 1:05:03

Something that annoyed me as I was reading the book is he would do these things and say he knows they're wrong while also saying, like, I don't know why I'm doing this. And from my reading of it, he's trying to garnish some sympathy from the reader, but at the same time, I'm like, dude, you had ample opportunities to do some serious, serious self-reflection and insight building. And it just seems that he didn't. And in 1978, the violence surged yet again. At Parkhurst, he committed back-to-back assaults, first smashing an inmate with a jam jar, then slashing another weeks later. The court tried a new method when he was seen for yet another violent charge. Under the Mental Health Act, he was certified insane and ordered to Rampton Secure Hospital until doctors deemed him no longer a danger.

Remi: 1:06:03

I mean, he was being a danger to himself and others at this point. So do you think he fits this criteria?

Ashley: 1:06:12

So it depends. He clearly is a danger to himself and others, but from what I've seen and read, it's not due to a serious and persistent mental illness. It's due to personality pathology.

Remi: 1:06:26

Like a severe antisocial personality disorder.

Ashley: 1:06:30

Exactly. Which lay people do see that as insane because a person's behavior doesn't make sense. But in the end, these are volitional choices he's making.

Remi: 1:06:43

He knows the difference between right and wrong. That is the difference between sane and insane.

Ashley: 1:06:50

Peterson's transfer to Rampton in December 1978 was supposed to mark the beginning of treatment, but instead it became another environment he tore apart. He arrived fighting and was stripped, plunged into a cold bath, and left naked in a cell. Even forced medications couldn't stop the violence directed towards staff and other patients. By late 1979, Rampton had enough. Peterson was transferred to Broadmoor, where he remained for the next five years. Broadmore housed some of Britain's most dangerous and acutely ill offenders. Despite a strong chemical cocktail, he mustered up the strength to stab a patient in the eye with a lit cigarette and tried to get his hands on a knife. When staff eventually took him off the drugs, he quickly returned to physical training and escape planning.

Remi: 1:07:46

Why did they take him off the drugs?

Ashley: 1:07:49

The drugs they were giving him were just to subdue his behavior. He didn't have psychosis. He didn't have depression. So it's just kind of like, what's the point of giving this guy things other than chemical sedation?

Remi: 1:08:03

And he was still able to fight his way through that and keep hurting people.

Ashley: 1:08:09

Bradmore is also where his fixation with rooftops began. He spent months examining the exercise yard before he made his move. Once on the roof, he tore out pipes, windows, and wiring, causing the facility to shut off the electricity and water. Staff eventually coaxed him down, but his mind was set. When he got back onto the roof, he stayed there for three days, surviving on pigeons, eggs and moss from the gutter.

Remi: 1:08:40

Pigeons, eggs, and moss? That might be the craziest diet I've ever heard.

Ashley: 1:08:47

His father and brother were finally able to get him down after they told him the ordeal was making his mother ill. Oddly, Broadmore also sparked another side of Peterson. Poetry writing.

Remi: 1:09:06

Out of curiosity, as you were talking, I looked up some of Charlie Bronson's poetry. And I just want to read a little excerpt from his poem entitled Mr. Nobody.

Ashley: 1:09:21

And for this reading, Remy, I request that you try to do it in your best Charles Bronson accent.

Remi: 1:09:28

Knocking knocking in my head. Not a word is ever said. All that noise in my space Around your neck and old boot lace. Knock knock all the time. Go away, I'm feeling fine. Can't you see what I am? You can call me son of Sam. Fear the horns upon my head. Call me once, and you'll end up dead. Thank you, thank you.

Ashley: 1:10:07

Yet every year his mental health tribunal hearings came and went, with no progress. Doctors couldn't agree on what exactly was wrong with him or if anything could be done. In 1984, after years of petitions and confrontations, Peterson was moved to Park Lane Hospital, a more modern and humane facility. His room was furnished, he had access to a gym, classes, and even a swimming pool. He seemed calmer, more controlled, hopefully. But stability never lasted long. After months of good behavior, he was drawn into yet another violent incident, this time attacking a patient who allegedly sent him sexual letters. Soon after, he took a different patient hostage until he was allowed to call his cousin Lorraine. Two psychiatric reports followed, both concluding he had no treatable mental illness and didn't belong in a hospital at all. Michael Peterson was simply a psychopath. Within days of being sent back to the prison system in 1985, Peterson assaulted at least three other inmates, resulting in another three-year sentence. After yet another transfer, he smeared feces on his cell walls, climbed onto the roof, and destroyed it.

Remi: 1:11:33

I can't imagine that he was getting a lot of friends while he was locked up during this time. I mean, this guy's a menace.

Ashley: 1:11:41

Oh, there are so many inmates he met during his time in prison that he just quickly name drops in his book. It's wild. At first, as I was going through his biography, I was highlighting them in case any of them showed up in the film. And then there's just so many people listed that I just said, fuck it. This is a movie about Charles Bronson. Any person he met is gonna be nothing but a blip in the story.

Remi: 1:12:08

Yeah, there's really only one prisoner that becomes a factor later in the film.

Ashley: 1:12:14

Well, negotiators eventually coaxed him off the roof with a series of promises. A visit from his lawyer, protection from beatings, a set mental health tribunal date, and fish and chips. The following year was a blur of transfers. Some moves were because he attacked officers or inmates, others were simply because no facility could manage him for long. By 1986, prison authorities concluded Peterson should remain in segregation indefinitely. He was occasionally granted gym time or small privileges if he behaved, but any calm was fleeting. Then finally, in 1987, he showed a stretch of consistent good behavior, and his release date was moved forward. His parents continued to visit when they could, and a warden allowed him to attend art classes. Around this time, he started writing to a woman named Kelly Ann who read one of his letters at his Uncle Jack's house. Her life was turbulent. Abused, pregnant, children and foster care, but something in their correspondence touched him deeply.

Remi: 1:13:25

They do meet at Uncle Jack's house in the film as well.

Ashley: 1:13:30

Finally, at the age of 35, after more than 13 years behind bars, remember he was only sentenced to seven, most of which was spent in solitary, seclusion, or high security psychiatric units. Peterson was finally released. After leaving his parents' place in Wales, embarrassed, confused, and unsure of where to go, he drifted back to London. On impulse, he bought a plastic water pistol from a toy shop and altered it to resemble a real gun. With no clear plan, he followed a man to his Mercedes, forced him to drive to Lutton, and walked the rest of the way to Uncle Jack's house. Kellyanne, seven months pregnant at the time, became one of the few steadying influences in his life. When she was sober at least. Trying to channel his aggression into something productive, Peterson trained obsessively at local gyms. But it was the raw, underground world of unlicensed fighting where he finally felt a sense of power.

Remi: 1:14:36

Back alley bare knuckle boxing.

Ashley: 1:14:39

Through connections he made in prison, he teamed up with top promoter Paul Edmonds, who helped craft his new persona. Edmonds even suggested the name Charles Bronson, which Peterson adopted long before he ever saw one of the actors' films.

Remi: 1:14:55

So he had never even seen a Charlie Bronson movie and he started going by that name anyway.

Ashley: 1:15:02

Precisely. Bronson's early fights were a mix of spectacle and brutality. He competed in a charity bout for a kid with leukemia and donated half his winnings before crossing a darker line when he killed a Rottweiler in a 10,000 quid underground match.

Remi: 1:15:22

There's charity back alley boxing matches? I had no idea.

Ashley: 1:15:28

Around this time, he met Alison, a young woman he became smitten with despite her existing relationship. Possibly in an attempt to woo and impress her, he robbed a jewelry store on New Year's Day 1988. He kept one ring as a gift for Allison and pawned the rest. 69 days into his latest stretch of freedom, he was arrested during a morning jog on January 7, 1988. At first, his defense looked promising. There was almost no physical evidence, and the eyewitnesses were too terrified to testify. But everything collapsed when Allison, who originally gave him an alibi, withdrew her statement. She admitted Bronson confessed to the robbery, described the ring he'd given her, and even told prosecutors what he'd been wearing that day.

Remi: 1:16:24

Wow, Allison sold him out.

Ashley: 1:16:27

Allison was also 18 years old and he was 35, so poo-poo on him.

Remi: 1:16:33

Well, okay, then go, Allison.

Ashley: 1:16:36

Back inside, he spiraled once more. During exercise one day, he climbed onto a razor wire-lined roof ledge in a reckless burst of defiance, only to climb down later that night. The next morning, he stripped naked and covered himself in boot polish, a bizarre act of protest that resulted in him being moved once again.

Remi: 1:17:01

So do you think he just would strip naked and cover himself in boot polish because it would make the guards more uncomfortable fighting him? Or it made him harder to tackle because he was slippery? What's the logic here?

Ashley: 1:17:18

I think both. I think it would make him harder to grab because he'd be slippery. And if you were a guard that would open someone's door and you just see this huge, bald, naked man covered in black polish from head to toe, just staring at you with rage in his eyes, like that would cause you to pause for a second or two.

Remi: 1:17:38

I would not want to walk into the room and see that sight before me.

Ashley: 1:17:44

In March 1988, he arrived at Brixton Prison, where he was kept behind a cage door with an additional iron mesh barrier. The claustrophobia and tension wore him down. One morning, he snapped, lifted a scalding hot tea urn, and struck another inmate with it. Amid the chaos, Uncle Jack and Kellyanne still visited, offering the only real human connection he had left. On June 17th, 1988, he pled guilty to armed robbery and was sentenced to seven years. In court, he declared, Today is the last day of my criminal ways. Sorry you all, my accents are atrocious. But privately he felt misunderstood, convinced he didn't belong in prison and needed help rather than confinement. Once Bronson began his seven-year sentence, the cycle that would define his life for decades set in. A constant loop of transfers, isolation, violence, and impossible to contain volatility. By late 1989, he had been transferred nearly 20 times in just over a year. A record even seasoned officers couldn't believe.

Remi: 1:18:59

If he was just acting like a normal prisoner, they wouldn't have transferred him anywhere, right?

Ashley: 1:19:06

Yeah, he probably would have stayed put.

Remi: 1:19:07

And gotten out in seven years.

Ashley: 1:19:09

Or if he would have transferred, he would have been transferred to less secure institutions. And no, if he wouldn't have acted violently, he was up for parole after 4.5 years.

Remi: 1:19:21

So all he had to do was behave, and he just couldn't stop fighting.

Bronson: 1:19:33

There's two things he loves, it's fighting and fighting round the world.

Ashley: 1:19:39

And his behavior allerged between theatrics and genuine danger. He would smear himself in boot polish, stage bizarre standoffs, destroy entire units, or barricade himself in offices. He fashioned a broken bottle onto a makeshift spear, stripped naked, and waited for morning with no real plan except confrontation. Another time, he stormed through the dining hall, overturned tables, and broke into an administrative office simply because he could. Certain incidents became infamous inside the system. The time he climbed onto a prison roof and belted out, Please release me, until security relented and let him speak to a friend. The time he took a random administrator in the yard that he didn't even know and threatened to rip out his spine if anyone approached. The time he attacked a guard because a group of visitors looked at him, quote, the wrong way. Or how about when he ran naked through Parker's after staff misplaced a letter, wrecked an office, and refused to come out until they let him call Kellyanne?

Remi: 1:20:58

It seems like anyone who was around him at any time was in danger of being beaten, held hostage, or potentially physically or mentally scarred for life.

Ashley: 1:21:11

I would quit my job if this is someone I had to deal with every day. After Uncle Jack died on September 6th, 1991, Bronson made his way to the roof yet again and briefly contemplated ending his life. While at Parkhurst in 1992, he convinced staff to let him build a small fish pond in the exercise yard. Unfortunately, his efforts came to a standstill when he was stabbed three days later. But this is a setback he actually managed. After getting 120 days of good time restored, he finally had a release date, November 9th, 1992.

Remi: 1:21:50

This is just because he was recovering from a stab wound. It actually allowed him to have enough good behavior time to get a release date finally.

Ashley: 1:22:02

I think he had about a year or so of not atrocious behavior, so he got some good time back.

Remi: 1:22:10

Because he was incapacitated and recovering from a horrific injury.

Ashley: 1:22:16

For three months. Upon release, Bronson tried to carve out a fresh start in New Brighton and secured a place to live with the help of two friends. He trained daily in the gym and appeared to be doing well until he noticed two police cruisers watching him from outside his apartment. He panicked, packed up his things, and left town. He moved between cities over the next few months, attending his aunt's funeral in London, spending time with Kellyanne, visiting London, and celebrating Christmas in Wales with his parents. Everything seemed to be going okay until he found a man at Kellyanne's apartment and broke his nose. When he was arrested a few days later, police questioned him about a wig, a gun, and a bank robbery. He was charged with conspiracy to rob a bank, possession of a firearm, and grievous bodily harm. The case stemmed from Kellyanne's statements claiming he shot a gun from her window. Another witness alleged he asked her to drive a getaway car. Bronson maintained he had no knowledge of such a plot, and Kellyanne did retract her statement a week later. After 55 days in custody, the robbery charges were dismissed, and he was fined for the assault. He went to Kellyanne's for answers, only to find she fled town after she learned about his release, which I do not blame her.

Remi: 1:23:46

Yeah, if I was her, I would get as far away from this man as physically possible.

Ashley: 1:23:55

Barely a month later, on February 25th, 1993, one day after my fourth birthday, Bronson was arrested again while in a car with another man. This time charged with conspiracy to rob a bank and possession of a sawed-off shotgun. While in custody awaiting trial, he took a library worker hostage. This is Andy Love. Though he liked Mr. Love, Bronson carried him into a room, covered the window with a blanket, and threatened to snap his neck. During the standoff, he made outrageous demands. A blow-up doll, a machine gun with 10,000 rounds, and a helicopter. He finally released Mr. Love after 14 hours, simply because he was disgusted by the man's flatulence.

Remi: 1:24:48

He thought he was farting too much?

Ashley: 1:24:50

He farted once, and Bronson was like, You're disgusting, this is my home, get the fuck out of here.

Remi: 1:24:57

That is the most absurd reason I have ever heard of in my entire life for a hostage to be released.

Ashley: 1:25:05

After being charged with false imprisonment, it was decided Bronson would be held in segregation indefinitely, stripped of nearly all privileges. No books, radio, bed, or personal visits.

Remi: 1:25:20

I mean he brought it on himself.

Ashley: 1:25:23

In September, he pled guilty to the shotgun charge, but not to the others. During his testimony, he claimed he wasn't planning on robbing a bank. He was just casing out Kellyanne's hairdresser, which happened to be a block from the bank, and his plan was to shoe himself in front of her. On September 14th, 1993, he was found guilty of intent to rob and sentenced to eight years. He began his prison sentence in what is referred to as the Hannibal Cage, a cell designed to eliminate almost all human contact. It had its own toilet and shower, meals were placed ten feet away on a table, and only legal visits were allowed at the cell door. Guards rarely entered, but when they did, a minimum of twelve were present. The cell was made of reinforced steel and concrete, with bulletproof glass on one side, and furniture was reduced to compressed cardboard.

Remi: 1:26:26

So this is where he was being held at the end of the film, I'm assuming, in a much more stylistic, dramatic fashion.

Ashley: 1:26:36

Yeah, this is where he spends a lot of his time, and it is kind of like how it is in Silence of the Lamps. It is underground. There is no light at all. And it is just a barren cell that is impossible to break out of, and there is nothing in there to distract you or quell your boredom. And yet, Bronson made his way out of the cage in November 1993 and did develop a bit of a routine. He cooked for himself, made phone calls, and began taking English and carpentry lessons from outside instructors. He painted and met regularly with a psychologist, as well as a hypnotherapist brought in to help inmates relax. This went on until Easter Monday when he grabbed the warden, threatened to snap his neck, and dragged him into a TV room. He barricaded the room with tables and chairs, tied the warden's hands with the necktie, and demanded food, tea, and a blow doll while singing I believe at the top of his lungs until officers overpowered him.

Frankie Laine: 1:27:43

I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows.

Remi: 1:28:07

And he was screaming this at the top of his lungs during a hostage situation.

Ashley: 1:28:14

Yes, because he said this is the song he wants playing at his funeral. Well, he was sent back to the cage and charged for his attack on the warden. Amid the relentlessness, confinement, and isolation, some prison staff and a visiting nun went out of their way to see him daily, offering encouragement while he trained alone. One day, an officer encouraged him to channel his energy into poetry, art, and writing.

Charles Bronson: 1:29:27

You could do something in there. I'll start with Windows doing a bit of uh bit of poetry, a bit of writing. And from that moment, I've now got 19 books published.

Ashley: 1:29:40

Even in that clip when it's supposed to be him describing this life-changing event, he can't help but throw in, oh yeah, I barricaded and took the warden hostage, but I was alone in this cage, bruised and beaten and alone and just poor me. And then someone came in and saved me. I don't want to sound like it's not terrible that he was held in such isolation for so many years, but I don't know how else any place could control someone like this man. He brought on a lot of this because of his behavior, and in my opinion, he does not take full responsibility for it. Ever. And I'm not just picking and choosing clips. There's one where he talks about how he is just an upstanding citizen and should be released.

Remi: 1:30:35

This guy is a menace who literally seems to attack anybody that's around him at any moment in severely violent and traumatic ways. So I don't know how he is discounting all of that. This guy has done so many horrific things to so many people without any provocation. What else were they supposed to do with him if not keep restraining him and putting him in more severe confinement?

Ashley: 1:31:11

And when you think about it, sure, he hasn't killed someone and he says, I'm not a danger to society, yet the longest time he's lasted, not behind bars since he was 21 years old, was 69 days. And he committed severe crimes. He took a man hostage and made him drive to a different location. That's kidnapping.

Remi: 1:31:34

You know that little voice that you have inside of your brain when something crazy pops up, but that voice prevents you from actually acting upon that.

Ashley: 1:31:43

He does not have that voice.

Remi: 1:31:45

Exactly. He has zero self-control, and he takes zero accountability for his actions.

Ashley: 1:31:54

Well, after Bronson was introduced to art, he taught himself to draw and slowly found a constructive outlet for his intensity. Over time, his dedication paid off. He published 19 books and won 11 Koesler Awards, an arts program established by author Arthur Koesler in 1961 to support creativity among prisoners and secure patients. In August 1994, he was allowed a personal visit with his father and brother. His dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer a year prior, so both knew it would be the last time they saw each other. In February 1995, he went on an 18-day hunger strike and then tried to stab the warden in the eye with a toothbrush. Even when given positive encouragement, such as participating in an athletic program for special needs children in April 1995, his aggression wasn't kept at bay for long. By 1996, the sheer number of moves, well over a hundred at this point, and years in solitary confinement, had clearly taken a toll. He was chronically paranoid, sensitive to light and sound, and struggled to tolerate human contact. He wore shaded glasses, even to read, and suffered headaches and distorted hearing, evidence of the psychological and physical strain of long-term isolation. In September 1996, three inmates in prison for hijacking a plane were his next hostages after one of them bumped into him and didn't apologize. During the debacle, he made absurd demands like a helicopter to Cuba and a jet to Liberia. He laughed and sang, cut his own shoulder with the safety razor, and surrendered after seven hours. This is what he had to say about it during a subsequent interview.

Charles Bronson: 1:33:54

It was so funny. I was squatting him. I was sitting with back the impress. It was fucking mental, mate. I've got seven years for that, and I fucking laughed every day since.

Ashley: 1:34:08

This clip highlights my main takeaway about Charles Bronson. He says he has remorse for the things he's done and the people he's hurt, but when he's describing this incident, he just describes it as funny. These people were clearly terrified, and he just thinks it's hilarious.

Remi: 1:34:28

Yeah, he has absolutely no remorse for his actions, and then laughing about it on a radio show.

Ashley: 1:34:38

And just a month later, he took a legal representative hostage for 30 minutes, this time out of paranoia. No charges were filed because the attorney refused to press them or make a statement. In September 1997, while awaiting trial for the prisoner hostage incident, he reconnected with his 26-year-old son for the first time in 23 years. The next month he pled guilty, returned to the Wakefield cage, and was sentenced to seven years, later reduced to five on appeal. A slow shift began in February 1998 after another prison transfer. Bronson started playing chess, training with a fellow inmate, and focused on art. By August 1998, he was showing signs of stability. He worked a cleaning job, engaged in art, and maintained a comparatively peaceful routine. This lasted until January 1999, when he received news that the specialized unit he'd been thriving in was being shut down. He took this closure as a personal slight. Around the same time, his grandmother died, and a teacher made an offhand criticism about one of his cartoons. He attacked the teacher, barricaded a classroom, and prepared for another siege. He wrapped wires around his hands and feet, smashed light bulbs, and armed himself with makeshift weapons. At one point, fashioning a knife to a pool cue to make a spear. The standoff lasted 44 hours. His behavior swung between menacing and bizarre politeness. He asked for cups of tea, stared silently while holding a broken bottle to his throat, and cut his own head with it. He also made strange requests, like asking the teacher if he would cut off his ear so he could bury it with his grandma. He tore apart equipment in the room. At one point, he electrocuted himself while ripping out a machine from the wall. He repeatedly tied and retied his hostage, ordered him to dance, and praised him as one of the best hostages because, unlike others, he didn't panic or shit himself. In February 2000, Bronson finally stood trial for the longest and most infamous standoff of his prison career. Because the hostage testified that Bronson showed moments of compassion during the ordeal, like offering him blankets and making him tea, he was actually found not guilty of causing bodily harm or threatening to kill. A few days later, despite arguments that years of near total isolation drove him to the breaking point, creating a kind of psychological distress that no one could reasonably endure, the court found him guilty of damaging prison property and false imprisonment and sentenced him to life in prison with the possibility of parole in 2010. As guards led him away, he looked back and asked, Why don't you just shoot me? So this is why Bronson is in prison for life.

Remi: 1:38:02

Yeah, but every single time before this, he was sentenced to less than 10 years behind bars, and he just kept exacerbating it every single time. So it's not really surprising that they finally just threw the book at him.

Ashley: 1:38:22

No, I agree. I'm not saying it's surprising at all, but what I'm saying in the movie, they kind of skipped over about how and why he got life in prison. Bronson changed his name to Charles Ali Ahmed and married Sarah Ali Ahmed in 2001, but the union ended in divorce in 2005. His connection to his family also deteriorated. His brother John immigrated to Australia and died in 2007 from brain cancer. His younger brother Mark drifted out of contact altogether. Cut off from nearly everyone he'd known, Bronson turned inward, channeling his energy into the one thing he could still control, his physical and mental discipline. In solitary, he developed a brutally efficient workout regimen, which he published in a 2002 book titled Solitary Fitness.

Charles Bronson: 1:39:19

I've been training all my life. I can do 172 press apps in one minute. I can do 94 press apps. In 30 seconds. I'm the king of press apps. I'm the strongest, fittest, 56-year-old man on the planet.

Remi: 1:39:43

Okay, so by this man's logic, he can do three pushups per second. I am calling bullshit on that. I've seen some extremely fit people in my life, and I don't know anyone who can bust out three per second, especially not for any sort of prolonged period of time. I don't Care how much time you have to do them in your cell, that is just not possible.

Ashley: 1:40:12

I kind of do believe him. I don't think he can do that now because he's in his 70s.

Remi: 1:40:17

One 1000. That was three. Do you think he could do three in that amount of time?

Ashley: 1:40:24

In his book, there are copies of certificates that do look like prison certificates, because I've seen them that quantify how many push-ups and sit-ups he did. Granted, these were in the 80s, which is almost 20 years before he published this book, but I mean this guy was just alone in a cell forever. I truly do believe that he wasn't doing much other than physical activity.

Remi: 1:40:50

I'm not denying that he was definitely doing a ton of push-ups while he was alone in his cell. I'm just calling bullshit on the three per second claim that he stated in that clip.

Ashley: 1:41:03

Bronson's first bid for parole was denied in March 2009. By August 2013, 10,000 people signed a petition advocating for his release. He once again attacked a warden in February 2014 over a dispute about withheld mail, earning him another two years. Later that year, he changed his name once again, this time to Charles Salvador, after Salvador Dolly.

Charles Bronson: 1:41:32

People think I was uh uh a Salvador fan, uh Salvador Dolly fan. But I'm not really respecting his work, but uh people don't realize Salvador actually means man of peace.

Ashley: 1:41:50

And I can't think of much better of a way to describe Charles Bronson other than a man of peace. Bronson began producing a distinctive body of artwork he described as fantasy reality. And Remy, for the past few minutes I've shown you excerpts from his book and are just cartoons he drew. Would you describe his style of art as fantasy reality?

Remi: 1:42:17

I would describe his style of art as anti-social high schooler. I mean, it's not bad. My favorite one is this one of Charlie Bronson bursting through a prison door, and there is a bowl of clearly marked porridge in front of him, and he is screaming, Oi, anyone for scrabble. But this is the type of stuff that I remember seeing kids doodling on the back of their assignments when I was in like 10th grade. There's really not a lot more to it than that, in my opinion.

Ashley: 1:43:03

And head over to our Instagram at criminal adaptations to view the post from this episode, which will of course contain some of Charles Salvador's art. Well, Bronson actually did auction off his collection and founded the Charles Salvador Art Foundation to promote his work and support other incarcerated artists. He continued to make headlines in February 2017 when he proposed to small-time actress Paula Williamson during a visit after just five months of correspondence. They married in the prison chapel on November 14th, 2017.

Remi: 1:43:43

They actually did get married. She's just as wacky as he is.

Ashley: 1:43:49

Well, in July 2018, he requested divorce following a scandal involving leaked photos of her, but they were still married at the time of her surprise death in January 2019. And yet another attention-grabbing stunt occurred in 2017. This time, Bronson claimed he identified a previously unknown son, a photographer named George Bambi. Bronson claimed that DNA testing showed that there was a 99.8% chance that he was Bambi's father. I actually found a YouTube video of who I assume is George Bambi interviewing Bronson and they call each other son and dad. And yet in March 2023, Bambi alleged that the entire story was nothing but a fabricated publicity stunt. Flashing back in time a few moments, in June 2020, Bronson petitioned successfully to have his parole hearing be public, citing his right to a fair trial. Not long after, he sent the following plea for help to Sky News.

Charles Bronson: 1:45:50

That's all I've done for the last ten years.

Ashley: 1:45:55

Wow, that was a lot. Remy, what do you have to think about Bronson's pleas for release?

Remi: 1:46:02

He said he was not a danger to anybody in that clip. And I beg to differ. This man is a danger to anyone and everyone in his immediate vicinity at all times for no reason whatsoever. And this has been the case for 50 years at this point, dude. I don't know how he can even say any of this shit with a straight face.

Ashley: 1:46:32

He does say that he's 74, which granted, research does show that violence goes down as someone ages, but the reason violence goes down is because people don't have the physical capability to elicit violence. This man, I do think he still has the physical capability to inflict violence upon other people. And the UK Parole Board agreed his parole was last denied in early 2023. And that is the true story of Nicholas Reffens Bronson. I would ask you what you think, Rummy, but we've been very vocal with what we think about Charles Bronson throughout my entire piece.

Remi: 1:47:14

Yeah, we haven't really held back during any of this.

Ashley: 1:47:18

It's really crazy because as I was looking up videos on YouTube about this man, all of the comments on the podcast posts are like, he's a legend, he's an inspiration, free Bronson, free Bronson. And as I was reading his biography, I do have some sympathy for him because I can't imagine the psychological damage that has been inflicted upon him because of the amount of time he has spent on segregation. And yet, he was given so many opportunities by so many prison officials. Just stop punching people for no reason. And throughout his biography, he will say, like, I'm doing good, life is good, and I assaulted this cop. I don't know why I actually like the guy. If you really wanted to, you could search out efforts, even in prison, to do some intense soul searching and insight building. And I don't think he has tried or he hasn't tried hard enough. I mean, a prison warden literally gave him a chance to run a group with special needs children, and he loved it. And then during that time, he just randomly assaulted someone else for no reason. It's like, no, you lost it because of your choices, dude.

Remi: 1:48:37

But from a psychological standpoint, there must be something wrong with this person's impulse control, because, like you said, he seemingly says time after time that he was doing good. He liked these people, and then he just ends up breaking someone's nose and holding them hostage.

Ashley: 1:49:00

I think it could be a combination of antisocial personality disorder, severe ADHD, and there's something called intermittent explosive disorder, where basically just the slightest transgression can cause someone to just blow up. So it could be one of those things, all of those things, most likely a combination of all three. It's rare that mental illness is in a vacuum. So it honestly probably is a mixture of both. And I'm not gonna lie, being in solitary confinement for this long, he probably is very paranoid. So any sort of minor slight to him, he might perceive as a severe threat on his life, which could trigger these explosive reactions.

Remi: 1:49:47

Speaking of explosive reactions, let's cut to the opposite of explosive reactions with our objection of the week, where we focus on the smallest, most meaningless change between real life and adaptation.

Objection of the Week: 1:50:06

Your Honor, I object! And why is that, Mr. Reed? Because it's devastating to my case! Overrule. Good call!

Ashley: 1:50:14

I'll kick us off with the objection because I'm pretty confident in mine. In your part, you said Bronson's first job was at a deli. In reality, it was at a grocery store.

Remi: 1:50:24

And I will just chime in and say I'm not super familiar with UK grocery stores, so it could have been, but from the layout in the film, it really looked like it was a meat counter deli place.

Ashley: 1:50:41

Even with that being said, you said he was fired because he robbed the place. In reality, he punched his boss because his boss told him he didn't have the eggs stocked.

Remi: 1:50:51

Okay, he definitely did not do that in the movie. Did he steal a kiss from a coworker before walking out?

Ashley: 1:50:58

Not from what I saw. He did mention having a crush on a coworker, but there was nothing about him stealing a last-minute smooch.

Remi: 1:51:06

Well, okay. I will follow that up with mine, which is honestly not very strong, but in the film, he really has no demands every time he holds somebody hostage. While in real life, he repeatedly asked for a blow-up doll and a helicopter on multiple occasions.

Ashley: 1:51:30

He twice asked for a blow-up doll. And during the first time, they were like, Charlie, why do you want a blowup doll? And he's like, So I can marry it. And they're like, What is gonna happen if you like get mad at her? And he's like, I don't know, I guess I'll deal with that when I get to it.

Remi: 1:51:46

And I just have to say, I am super surprised that that was not incorporated into the film in any way. You could have done a lot of very interesting visuals with Bronson and that blowup doll on stage.

Ashley: 1:52:03

I am too. He could have had a blowup doll with him in his arm doing one of his monologues. I am very surprised that it wasn't written in.

Remi: 1:52:12

That is exactly what I was picturing in my head, or him having like a serious conversation with a blowup doll and him doing the voice of the doll. But yeah, that should have definitely been included, but was not.

Ashley: 1:52:26

Well, he never got it, so maybe that's why.

Remi: 1:52:29

I'm gonna give it to you. Mine was pretty half-hearted. It was kind of hard for me to find one in this movie. So you got this one. First of the new year, objection of the week is all yours, Ashley.

Ashley: 1:52:43

Ugh, it's such a sigh because I feel like I've been losing these for so long. But let's get into our verdict.

Objection of the Week: 1:52:49

At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will deliver a verdict based on the film's accuracy. If the film is an honest portrayal of the events, then it will earn a not guilty verdict. If the adaptation is mostly factual, but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars.

Ashley: 1:53:17

Remy, since I took the lead on the objection, why don't you kick us off here for our verdict? I am just buzzing with anticipation.

Remi: 1:53:26

Alright, bruv. I'm giving this movie a mistrial. Simply because the film adaptation, it did get a lot right. A lot of the details were there, but the movie is almost like if you passed out and had a fever dream about Bronson's life. It's really weird and jumbled together, and time kind of passes without any real meaning, and characters come in and out, and it's all just sort of interesting to look at, but when you wake up in the morning, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. And that's what I think this movie is. There is a lot from the Bronson true story that was left out, but I honestly don't know if all of it was worth mentioning. And I do enjoy the artistic interpretation that Reffen did with this story, because it's really not the most interesting story in the world, but he did something very creative and unique with it. However, I don't think in that transition he fully captured the real story of the true Charlie Bronson in that process. I'm not sure we were missing out on a ton. I do think that the rooftop standoffs were lacking in the film. However, I think that the movie does a good job of capturing is, the personality, the character of this person, but it doesn't do a good job of telling his story as it truly occurred. So that is my verdict. Mistrial, but not for lack of trying. Ashley, what do you think on Mr. Bronson?

Ashley: 1:55:19

So I actually agree. I'm gonna go with a mistrial. There is a lot about this man's life that is condensed, some of which I actually kind of envy the director for being able to do that. As I was taking notes on this guy's autobiography, it was literally like name of prison, here for two weeks, assaulted someone. Next note, name of prison, here for three days, assaulted someone, name of prison, yada, yada, yada, for so many pages. And I do think that the director did a really good job in a very short amount of time through imagery and storytelling to just show like this is what is happening throughout this guy's entire incarceration, and he's unmanageable. And the little details that they kept consistent were very surprising to me. The Rottweiler, Allison, the one who he stole the ring for, Andy Love, the name of the hostage, cousin Lorraine. They did kind of combine his first and second release and just smushed it into two, which honestly he was released for like 55 days, so who fucking cares? And I think that the main reason this movie gets a mistrial is from reading this 200 and something page autobiography in very tiny font and paperback form, and the scenes you showed me of Tom Hardy, that is how I picture Charles Bronson. So for all those reasons, I'm also going with mistrial.

Remi: 1:56:53

This film is basically the poem version of Bronson's life.

Ashley: 1:56:59

One other thing you had mentioned is as you were watching it, you felt like you were watching a fever dream. And I imagine that if you ask Bronson to reflect on his life, a lot of it probably does feel like a fever dream. He's in isolation, he's being moved from place to place, he's being injected with drugs. A lot of his life is out of his control and just a whirlwind. So a surprising consensus between us. I think it's been a while since we had a consensus. We've been kind of battling back and forth, I could be wrong. But what do we have on the docket for next week?

Remi: 1:57:37

Well, it's super appropriate that we discussed a person named Andy Love during this episode, because two weeks from now, we will be discussing the film Loving, which is basically the complete opposite of Bronson.

Ashley: 1:57:56

And fun fact, this was actually Remy's pick to do our switch of role, but this is a Supreme Court case, so I think it's kind of more in my wheelhouse than yours.

Remi: 1:58:08

Totally agreed. Supreme Court stuff is definitely your jurisdiction.

Ashley: 1:58:15

Loving is a 2016 biographical romantic drama about Richard and Mildred Loving, who are actually the couple that are behind the Supreme Court decision, Loving v. Virginia, that made interracial marriage legal.

Remi: 1:58:32

I am looking forward to discussing this. I wish we were chatting about it on Valentine's Day, but it's not really working out that way schedule-wise. But it will be a welcome change of pace to discuss two people that are in love for once in our podcast.

Ashley: 1:58:54

We are covering it because both people were arrested for being married and just being in love and took it all the way up to the Supreme Court, not really because they wanted to make change, just because they wanted to be able to love each other and be near their families. So I'm very excited for it. I've never seen this movie. It was actually on my list of two watch movies for a long time. I'm pretty sure one or both of the main leads are nominated for Academy Award for their performance. I'm reading here that Nick Krull and Michael Shannon are both in it. And I love Joel Edgerton, so I'm just super stoked to talk about this. It's gonna be a nice change to talk about a true crime story that the main takeaway is love.

Remi: 1:59:41

So thank you again, everybody, for joining us and happy 2026. We will continue to be here well into the new year and many years to come, hopefully. Now stay tuned for a clip from the trailer of Loving. And until next time, everybody, happy new year and court is Adjourned.

Bronson: 2:00:09

In here.

Tom Hardy: 2:00:10

Richard. What you doing in bed with that woman? I'm his wife. That's no good here.

Loving Trailer: 2:00:18

Richard Perry loving being a white person, and Mildred Jeter, being a colored person, did unlawfully cohabitate as man and wife.

Bronson: 2:00:28

Richard?

Tom Hardy: 2:00:31

I believe this is a battle that could go all the way to the Supreme Court. We ain't hurting anybody. The state of Virginia will argue that it is unfair to bring children of mixed race into the world.

Bronson: 2:00:55

I can take care of you.

Loving Trailer: 2:00:59

I know that.

Bronson: 2:01:02

I can take care of you.