What Shapes a Craftsman: The Principles and Practices of Jay Ballard

In this episode of Thanks for Doing That, Heather sits down with master carpenter Jay Ballard, whose decades of experience in carpentry and remodeling are matched only by his kindness and optimism. Jay shares how growing up around woodworking shaped his love for the craft—from the smell of freshly cut lumber in his father’s shop to the satisfaction of finishing his first clock case. He also reflects on the values instilled by his parents—hard work, humility, and faith—that continue to guide him in both life and business.

Beyond his story, Jay offers practical wisdom for anyone eager to take on projects around the house. From knowing your limitations to planning realistically, Jay encourages homeowners to approach projects with forethought and courage. His advice balances inspiration with grounded practicality, reminding us that creating or repairing spaces can be deeply life-giving.

This conversation is both a window into the heart of a craftsman and a toolkit for anyone who wants to make their home a place of care, beauty, and belonging.

Catch more of the story @thanks.for.doing.that.podcast! 

Transcript

 Heather Winchell: Hey, there you are listening to thanks for doing that, a podcast celebrating people and ideas that make this world a better place. I am Heather Winchell, your host and chief enthusiast, and I'm on a mission to bring you conversations that encourage, inspire and delight. So stay tuned for another episode where we explore the things we do, the reasons we do them, and why it matters.

Today I am joined by Jay Ballard and there are a few things you need to know about Jay. First, he is an exceptionally skilled carpenter, specializing in home repair, remodeling in all projects in between. He recently helped us with a few critical projects around our own home. Second, Jay is an exceptionally kind, optimistic, and helpful person.

Even when the project doesn't go as planned, Jay is able to put a positive spin on it and leave you feeling as though he's caring for you as he would his own family. Jay, thank you so much for joining me today. 

[00:01:19] Jay Ballard: It's good to be here, Heather. 

[00:01:21] Heather Winchell: Yeah, it's good to have you. So let's get this conversation started with an overview of what life looks like for you right now.

[00:01:29] Jay Ballard: Yes, as a friend observed when they heard of our decision, uh, we have a new reality and that was, uh, moving to Fort Collins 20 months ago. Before then, we lived in Warren County, Illinois. Both my wife and I grew up in Warren County. Uh, it's a small agricultural county in West Central Illinois. And, uh, we married, we raised the family and our work careers were all in that one area, in that one county.

My small business started fairly early, uh, carpentry, remodeling, uh, maintenance, construction, uh, cabinet work. And, uh, that small business lasted until we moved. I worked almost right up to the day fulfilling my obligations to my customers back there. So our oldest son lives in Chicago. Our two grandsons are 18 and 19.

So our involvement in their lives seem to, you know, kind of get fewer and fewer. Not to mention, you know, uh, well, you know, we're grandparents so you, you only need so many, so much time with grandparents when, when you get older. But our younger son, Austin, moved out to Fort Collins a few years ago, has married and has a young family.

And so it was, uh, fairly easy for us once we really concentrated on the ability for us to do that, that it, it was an easy decision, uh, in some ways our obligation to our family because our families were from the same area. Those obligations had ended. 

[00:03:31] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:03:32] Jay Ballard: And so, um, it was easier to be able to uproot and come out here.

So You're not 

[00:03:40] Heather Winchell: kidding though, that that is a very different reality. I mean, you know, Fort Collins is actually still in the wider area, I would say is agricultural in a sense. Yes. But probably a very different feel. Northern Colorado is probably a very different feel holistically than central Illinois. Am I right about that?

[00:04:00] Jay Ballard: Well, you know, you mentioned the agriculture part. Yeah. And maybe the corn isn't as tall. Uh, there's, there's, there's more than just corn and soybeans. Uh, so it's, it's because we're from a, a farming community, it, it's really kind of enjoyable. We live in 

[00:04:19] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:04:19] Jay Ballard: Wellington, which is north of Fort Collins. So we have a nice drive.

Into Fort Collins where the kids live and where we attend church and, and you know, probably do 80% of our business is in Fort Collins, but we, uh, yeah. It's, it's different. Uh, and yet it's, it's really just so interesting, uh, that part. 

[00:04:44] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Well, and you know, just again, speaking to, you said this is a different reality.

I mean, thinking of being in the same place your whole life and then your whole, you know, raising your family and then beyond to see one of your children's children grown and then moving that, that's quite a transition. 

[00:05:04] Jay Ballard: Well, it, it is. And it had its difficulties. We, we knew we had to downsize. Um, and so that was a big part of it.

But, you know, we were ready, uh, we were ready to simplify. And, uh, even though, you know, moving, uh, I don't know, 900 miles, uh, may be a big jump for some people. Uh, you know, I think God had given us abilities and desires that, that we could do that. And, um, and really just kind of fulfilled that part of us.

And of course, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't hurt to have a 4-year-old, um, granddaughter and an 18 month old grandson to be able to cuddle with and to Oh, just talk with them when they're in the back seat. Uh, just on and on. I can go about that, but, uh, right. Yeah. Oh, I 

[00:06:09] Heather Winchell: know it. Yeah, I know it. That's great.

That's really great. J Well, it is. It sounds like such an adventure, and it sounds like you guys were excited to make that transition and we, our family is so thankful that you did. It's been fun to get to know you a bit and to benefit from, like I said, the very exceptional skills that you have in your line of work.

[00:06:30] Jay Ballard: Yeah. And, and I really did, you know, I, I kind of closed up my business back in Illinois, but I did want to, for at least for a time, be able to offer something out here. And so, mm-hmm. Uh, I am grateful for, uh, the work and, uh, but again, for me it's, it's a treat to meet new people and to be able to help. 

[00:06:55] Heather Winchell: Yeah.

And I guess to talk a little bit about the decades of varied experience that you have had in carpentry, I guess I'm just curious how you got started in that. 

[00:07:07] Jay Ballard: Well, I'd like to think, uh, it was in my blood, but at the same time. There were opportunities for me and my, my dad did carpentry, uh, he did some other farm related ag equipment kind of things as well.

My grandpa did carpentry on the side. He was a farmer. So that, that's when I say I think it, it's a little in the blood. And even on my mom's side, I would say I have, uh, some of their, their abilities. But my dad had a shop and, uh, because I wasn't the best student, I liked doing things hands on. I could go out to the shop and, um, I enjoyed creating something, you know, and, and it had to do with wood because.

That was the scraps that would be laying around. There would be a table saw, uh, or a drill press, or a lathe or something. So that, that really piqued my interest. I loved when my dad was building a, maybe a house or a shed and, and going to visit and just smell the cut wood, uh, the Douglas f framing and plywoods and just watch something come together.

And, uh, just the, the rhythm of a hammer and, and the noise of a saw. So, uh, I was exposed. And so I would, I would, I'd almost say naturally I would then, you know, take on those classes in high school, like shop and expand, you know, my skills. 

[00:08:49] Heather Winchell: I really loved the way that you described that because it was an experience, it was something you were smelling.

It's, you know, it's not just this product, this thing that will be produced, it's the process and what you were smelling and the Yeah, probably the way it felt to like, watch your dad bring something and make something, you know? So Yeah. That's that's really cool. 

[00:09:09] Jay Ballard: Yeah. And, and he would, he did several things in the construction and, and so, uh, he would have sometimes maybe one of my older brothers working for him, but he had one man that was fairly, uh, steady kind of.

Employee and, and, uh, you know, he would carry block and mix mud or he would do a roof. Uh, so I, I saw a bit of the business, um, and, and the various jobs or task that were going on. Uh, my dad was a welder. I mean, uh, he was an electrician. He did a lot, a lot of different things. And, um, so I, I could hone in on the wood pretty quickly.

That really was me. My other brothers were more me mechanically inclined and, but, but for me it was the finish work as much as possible. 

[00:10:07] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Do you remember the first thing you ever made or the, maybe the first thing you were really proud of? 

[00:10:12] Jay Ballard: Hmm. Oh boy. Let me think here. The first thing I was really proud of.

Well, I'm sure it was something that came out of the shop. I did a, a number of clock cases, uh, wood cases, so, you know, um, for me it, it might be my banjo clock. 

[00:10:37] Heather Winchell: Ooh. 

[00:10:37] Jay Ballard: I, I did that fairly on. I didn't, uh, I, I went by a blueprint and, uh, but it was something unusual, but I can't really hone it down to the very first thing, uh, because I did, I did do some typical would be to build a box or something, so mm-hmm.

You know, I would've done something fairly easy like that. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:11:04] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Very cool. Do you have a picture of that clock? 

[00:11:07] Jay Ballard: Well, I do. In fact, I made, let's see, I made three of them and one of them I kept. Oh, cool. In fact, it's, it moved to Colorado as well. If it was out of its container because it's still packed away, I'd, I'd, I'd show you 

[00:11:26] Heather Winchell: Uhhuh.

[00:11:27] Jay Ballard: It hasn't come out of the box yet. We did talk about it just this morning, uh, that it needed to come off the shelf. Uh, either get rid of it or put it up. So, 

[00:11:38] Heather Winchell: oh, well 

[00:11:38] Jay Ballard: yeah, 

[00:11:39] Heather Winchell: if you do decide to get rid of it before you do that, I need to see it. That sounds like something I'd like to see. I 

[00:11:45] Jay Ballard: I will be glad she sent you a picture.

[00:11:47] Heather Winchell: Alright, thanks Jay. So, you know, like I said, you work in a variety of spaces around wood and within that you probably have opportunity to fix broken things and build new things. And I'm wondering if you enjoy one type of work over the other. 

[00:12:06] Jay Ballard: You know, I actually like doing both. Um, okay. Repair, building, you know, the variety, whether it's a half a day, maybe a little fix up job or it's, or it's being weeks, uh, on a build.

I like the change of pace. I like being able to, um, well I, there's a variety of work, uh, involved. Right. And, and my mind is almost always going. Uh, so it, whether large or small, I think I made pretty good time for both because there, again, I did have a clientele and they had various needs and so, uh, I wanted to keep them happy.

I wanted to actually, I wanted to work for them and, and, uh, and help them, you know, with those tasks. 

[00:12:57] Heather Winchell: So tell me about some of the projects that have been the most fun for you. 

[00:13:01] Jay Ballard: The, uh, type of work I would do. Evolved a bit early on, I was doing quite a bit of maintenance. I was doing roofing, uh, I was repairing foundations and, and that kind of work along with, in the wintertime, I would be in my shop and I would be building kitchen cabinets.

And so I liked that, uh, at the time. But then there came a time when I had more opportunity to frame and that would involve addition or garage, something like that. And then of course, uh, the remodeling itself, like a, replacing a kitchen in the bathroom. But I, I would say it would be the, the framing, uh, part of a job, or let's just say it's a job that required a design meeting with the customer, finding out what the needs were, and then working with them to come up with.

With the floor plan, uh, square footage or whatever it might be, the windows and the doors, whether it's fun part or it's exciting. I, I think the two can, maybe, can be used, uh, interchangeably. At least I do, uh, when I'm excited about my work, it's fun. 

[00:14:24] Heather Winchell: Sure, yeah. Would you say that if something seems kind of like a challenge that, that makes it exciting or fun for you?

[00:14:30] Jay Ballard: Oh, oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Because I think when you do something for a long time that the, the more you're challenged in that, the longer you're gonna stay in that profession. And that's what being, uh, a carpenter, you know, for decades, uh, when it came down to it, eventually you, you had the experience.

You had the, uh, exposure clientele that were needing these bigger things and things that honestly take quite a bit of planning and design, and that's really kind of right up my alley. And then seeing the customer satisfied with the decisions that we were able to make my customers made some of the best decisions, and they've challenged me with their ideas and that that was just more fun.

[00:15:33] Heather Winchell: Yeah. You know, Jay, I am smiling to myself because, you know, after asking, you know, what, what has been fun for you? I wanted to follow that up with, well, what about a project gone awry? And I'm smiling because I remember that you, like I said, recently came into our home and helped us with a couple of doors, a new front door, and then a new back door because our houses.

I don't know, been dancing and got a little off kilter and our doors were not shutting well. But anyways, I'll never forget that you, you told us, you're like, all right guys, have the door. I'll be there. You know, first thing Friday morning or whatever, you work this in, it was so generous. And you get there and we bring out the door and you're like, well, this is actually not the right size for the door that I'm taking out.

And we were so just naive, and we were like, oh my goodness. There are different sizes of doors. And I just remember that you were so kind and honestly. I think within five minutes you had a totally new plan for how you were going to make this work and extend, you know, make the door, um, the framing, I guess bigger.

'cause I think our, the door we bought was bigger than the space for the door. Yes. Um, yes. But yeah, so I guess just to speak to what you just said about, you know, enjoying a challenge and trying to make it work for your customers. I mean, we experienced that firsthand with what could have been, you know, some people might have said, well, I'm really sorry you don't have the right product, but you were so kind and so optimistic.

Um, and I'm laughing 'cause I could just remember like how my face felt. And then you just, you carried us with your optimism and then you made it work and it's beautiful. So that's our story gone awry. But I'm curious if there are any others that stand out in your mind. 

[00:17:25] Jay Ballard: Well, I, I, I'll tell you, Heather, when the question of what was fun or exciting, uh, I, I described.

Being able to design. And that was fun, that process of coming up with, with a design and, and working with a customer. Uh, another fun way for me is your front door. So before we go to the back door, we'll talk about the front door, because you not only needed a new back door, but your front door needed some attention.

Well, it just so happened that I was on a job with another contractor as a sub, and they were taking out a beautiful front door with sidelights just like yours, hinging, just like go's. And in fact, they went to the expense of replacing the glass with something, a little more modern looking, but then decided to go with a whole new door.

And I asked my boss, I said, whatcha gonna do with that door? I really, I don't know that I had, I, I don't remember the sequence, but it was so close to you when you called and, and I knew about that door that it was gonna be available. The homeowner said, oh, that'd be great if someone could use it. You know, so you call and, and I say, Heather, you just won't believe what I have.

I hope I didn't push you into anything. But as you know, your existing door, previous door, uh, was needing to be rehung rebuilt a little bit. Well, here you had an opportunity to get, uh, something with, uh, new lights in the door. In fact, the interior color was. The same color as your interior. And the exterior, I would say is a pretty good darn accent color.

So yeah, 

[00:19:34] Heather Winchell: you're right. It was great. 

[00:19:36] Jay Ballard: That was fun. And, and what that is for me is that, um, if I have one little gripe with my profession is the, is the amount of materials that goes to the landfill. Mm-hmm. So whenever there's an item that can be reused, I'm all in. And, and yours was, it doesn't always work out that way, but we just moved that door with the help of the contractor on the other job.

We put it in their van and brought it over to your place. And I think it was what, two days later and we put it in and, and, um, so that was fun. Now, uh, yes, your backdoor was a challenge and, uh, but it wasn't your, it wasn't your fault. Uh, for some reason, when that house was built, they put that skinny door in, and what you got was the narrowest in a standard size.

But you know what, it, it was the best door for the opening. It involved a little more work, but it was really the best door, especially, uh, when it came to, if, if you decide to put a storm door on it, uh, that narrow door that you had that size, uh, would've cost so much more to make a door. Yeah. And this way, if you go with that storm door, it, it's a stock item.

And, uh, and that was a challenge. And I really, I, I really, 

[00:21:12] Heather Winchell: uh, 

[00:21:12] Jay Ballard: appreciate the opportunity to. You know, fix that and, and make that solid. 

[00:21:21] Heather Winchell: Yeah, well we very much appreciated that as well. You know, we did not just have a gaping hole in our house for weeks to order a custom door. Um, you know, I do wanna say just one more thing about that whole scenario that you mentioned about our front door before I move on.

And it's just, and this is more for the listener to understand why it felt really like an honor for me to have you on the show today. So, when the other contractor delivered that door, my husband and I were so grateful. We did not have to rent something to move that. I mean, it's this beautiful, beautiful door that we did not have to move to transport, that we did not have to buy.

And so when the man brought it, you know, you were here and my husband and I tried to offer him some kind of payment to say, please, could we, could we compensate? You we're just so, so grateful. And his response was, no, I tell you what, I would do anything for Jay. That man is, that man is gold. He's so kind.

He's just working with him is, makes it all worth it. And so I just really felt like that spoke to who you are and the reason I wanted to have you on. And so yeah, that's the, that's what I'll say to just kind of close out that story. But 

[00:22:32] Jay Ballard: Matt was. Really tickled to be able to do that. And then also to find out that, uh, I think you had some, um, uh, kids that went to the same school.

Is that, is that went, yeah, 

[00:22:44] Heather Winchell: yeah. Yeah. So we had a connection with that. Yeah. Which was pretty cool. Yeah. But I feel like what I could take from what he said, and just my experience with you, Jay, is that you are just very kind, optimistic. I'm wondering are there any other principles or what are the principles that guide the work that you do?

And how has this line of work formed the man that you are today? 

[00:23:09] Jay Ballard: Uh, for me it was the principles, uh, or you might even call 'em rules that were lived out in front of me at home. Seeing, watching, listening, uh, to my mom and dad, they worked hard and believed every job that they were asked to do. To the best of their ability, they would do it well.

So, um, you know, taking, um, our work, our promises serious, treating others, uh, with respect and probably probably the, the thing that came, uh, very important, my mom and dad is that we didn't think too highly of ourselves. And that that's not the opposite of, you know, thinking bad about ourselves. It's not that at all.

It, it is just, uh, it's putting yourself in a position where, um, that's how you honor people and, and love and respect people is when you don't put on, when you don't, you know, I'm not saying this the best way, but. Um, 

[00:24:26] Heather Winchell: no, I hear you. I, I understand. Uh, consider others more important than yourself perhaps. 

[00:24:32] Jay Ballard: Yes, for sure.

And of course, I would later see that those principles, those qualities, those values were really the teachings of Jesus. And again, seeing it lived out, not preached, but having it expectations. And uh, and then at the end of the day, realizing you've done well. And also, you know, we can look at the teachings of Paul.

He would say, whatever you do, and do it as unto the Lord Christ. And so that's the main principle. 

[00:25:21] Heather Winchell: Yeah. '

[00:25:22] Jay Ballard: cause I, because I, I do represent him. I wanna be a good example of, of yeah. Being, uh, Christlike, but still human. 

[00:25:33] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:25:34] Jay Ballard: And then, you know, you, you, you come to realize more and more, especially, maybe not especially, but when you're in business, uh, in order to stay in business, you need to be consistent, uh, as best as possible.

That you need to be fair from where we came from, you need to be hardworking. If you do the job well and you do it, you're diligent about it, you're fair, you're gonna always have work. And that's what I would rather be doing than, uh, going from one, uh, prospect, job prospect to the other. I. That just, um, that's always made more sense for me is to always be about my work and not trying to sell my work.

Let it speak for itself. Word of mouth, word gets around very quickly in a small community and, um, just let it go from there. 

[00:26:40] Heather Winchell: Yeah. And it sounds like that worked very well for you. 

[00:26:45] Jay Ballard: It did. In fact, one of the compliments that I think I feel happened was that when the next generation would call me, uh, that was really satisfying, uh, to be able to work with that next generation because they had some of the same needs, uh, as their folks.

And, um, to be trusted like that, uh, with the next generation. That's, that's very fulfilling. 

[00:27:17] Heather Winchell: Yeah, I can imagine that. It really is. And you know, you said earlier that one of the, one of the elements you really enjoy about your job is that you get to meet all kinds of new people. And I can imagine it's also just really fulfilling to two within, you know, one family generations within one family to be able to help and to work within that as well.

[00:27:42] Jay Ballard: Yes. There is an excitement that the customer also gets, um, when they feel. Like a need is going to be fulfilled or something repaired or something enlarged there, there's an excitement that they fe feel as well. So e even on my worst days, uh, sometimes that excitement just carries them through, which is good because I may not be having a good day that day.

And yeah. And they bring me back around, uh, to, uh, it's okay. I'm helping them and, uh, they're happy with the progress. 

[00:28:21] Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. You 

[00:28:21] Jay Ballard: know, one, one of the jobs, um, it was during the pandemic, uh, that was really difficult for me and they, they've been customers for years, was a, uh, difficult, uh, window project, uh, for their.

One of their rooms that they were adding on, and the pandemic was just an odd time. You know, we didn't stop working. Uh, if you are in the trades, you worked right on through that pandemic, but eventually, uh, supply chains, uh, created problems. You maybe had to change a vendor. Uh, but anyway, I had one large window complicated, uh, project that just, it just kind of made hard turns and I had to get a room and closed.

But, uh, I can really credit my homeowner friends. For their understanding and patience with that. And we got through it. And, uh, even at my age at that, and at that time, I was still learning things about the business that I either had, uh, forgotten about or had gotten Slack on. You know, being, being a diligent and very thorough, especially on special order, it just goes to show you, you know, you're always challenged and, and you, you're just gonna have to find that piece somewhere that'll get you through.

And, uh, I did. I did. 

[00:30:03] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Good for you. Would you say that most of the people you've had the opportunity to work for are. Pretty easy to work with and understanding. Would you say that that's been your experience? By and large, 

[00:30:16] Jay Ballard: I, oh, by and large. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There again, uh, I think because they, they have this need, whether it's a repair or remodel or a build, I think most people are ready to cooperate.

I might have to make an adjustment or two in my approach, you know, am I, am I actually working with the husband or the wife? You know? Yeah. Who, who, you know, who should I be more careful around or, or encourage more or work harder for? Because sometimes that's even what it came down to. Hmm. We would hit a, a design that just wasn't quite there yet.

Okay. We will back up and we'll hit it again. Hit it again. And so, as long as I was. Working at it. You know, I, I had great customers and yeah, and, uh, and I, I loved working for the farm wives. They were smart. Uh, they were usually organized and they had some great ideas that I was able to help them kind of bring along and just brought really, uh, a great satisfaction for me and, uh, really kept me going.

[00:31:39] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. I know that we have a lot of access to information, right? We can watch YouTube, we can look at Pinterest. I mean, there's just all kinds of places people go to be inspired for things that they might want to do in their own home. You know, DIY projects. Yes. And sometimes I think those projects need the skilled eye in hand of a professional like yourself.

And I guess I'm curious if you've had to come in and do cleanup on attempts at those things. Um, but other times I think it really can be life giving and empowering for people to just do something. So I guess I'm wondering what advice would you pass along to empower people to create spaces they love?

[00:32:22] Jay Ballard: Well, I can think of a couple three. Uh, I think the first thing is to be practical. The best you can. Projects, uh, sometimes will balloon a little bit. Before you know it, you may have stretched yourself a little bit. So be very, be very careful about that. Set priorities on what's really needed, especially within your, this budget that most people are gonna lurk under.

So that's one. Um, another would be know what your limitations are, what your skills, what your experience has been. You know, these days it, it is easy to get advice and to get primers or, uh, YouTube. You can find out sometimes almost too many ways of, you know, painting a door, but, you know, you can find it.

And, and I think, you know, getting educated, not being afraid, uh, to ask a trusted friend. It could be someone, uh, that has had a similar DIY project. Sometimes they'll have more advice on the things not to do because that's how they learned and they don't want to see you go through that. 

[00:33:44] Heather Winchell: Right. 

[00:33:45] Jay Ballard: Uh, or if you have a professional, don't be afraid to ask 'em about that.

I, I really have always loved being able to, I don't know, field questions. I guess you could say. I'm not really giving anything away by offering advice. Well, I guess I am giving away, but I, I like doing it because I, I know that there, there's gonna be customers that will need my help and there'll be those, like you say, that really want to put their signature on something.

And I think, I think that's great. And, uh, yeah. And then I think I had one other thing. Oh, yes. Have a realistic timeframe. You don't want this project to draw out. You don't go into a project thinking, uh, it will be days when it could be months. You don't wanna put your family through that. 

[00:34:46] Heather Winchell: Right. 

[00:34:47] Jay Ballard: And usually whenever a project gets long like that, uh, energy goes down, just your ability to put your time toward it.

And so just be, be realistic about that timetable. You know, maybe you'll be able to take it ab bite at a time instead of, uh, tearing into something full scale. Maybe there's a way of just working at it. And sometimes that has to do with just planning the sequence. It's the steps. Having that set in place and thinking that, well, I've got one through three, uh, planned, but, but you haven't given any thought to four through 10.

You know, just have a realistic timetable. 

[00:35:34] Heather Winchell: It strikes me that all of your recommendations really speak to the need for forethought planning, preparation. Mm-hmm. As opposed to, you know, what I think can sometimes happen with like, oh, I see this thing and I'm just gonna run to the store and get everything I need and get right to it, you know?

I think that's the speed I like to move at. Sometimes when I have an idea. I'm just excited to do it, but I just, I hear your caution in all three of those areas. Really, it comes down to maybe taking it a bit slower, preparing well, saving yourself, maybe trouble on the back end by doing well on the front end, 

[00:36:14] Jay Ballard: for sure.

And, and just remember now, for my generation, I would say, uh, Tom Silva may have done it in a half an hour, but most likely if it, if it of any size, you know, uh, Tom Silva is from, uh, ask this old house. 

[00:36:33] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:36:33] Jay Ballard: And so he was the head carpenter. I think he's still okay. And, uh, my wife would say, why is this taking so long?

This project, Tom does it in half an hour. And so, um, you might be able to Google and, and get the steps and, and see someone else do it. But you know, again, be realistic about the time that it takes. And 

[00:36:59] Heather Winchell: yeah, I think that home ownership or really just, you know, being in any space that you care for to some degree, even if you don't own it, I feel like that is such a humbling situation because, I mean, you go to change the battery in your.

Fire alarm and that turns into like a half day something or other sometimes. Right. Or, um, yeah, I'm just trying to think of other things that, you know, sadly, I have also been guilty of asking my husband, why is this taking so long? But, but the, but things just come up and it's unexpected and it's, yeah. So knowing the steps does not mean it's going to go quickly.

[00:37:43] Jay Ballard: That's, that's right. So yeah. There, there you go. 

[00:37:47] Heather Winchell: Okay, Jay, so I'm excited about this question 'cause I'm just so curious what you're going to say. So you've been dropped into a project and you can only bring five tools. What five tools do you find indispensable? 

[00:38:03] Jay Ballard: Well, if you could have made it eight tools or maybe 10, but I'll, I'll try here.

[00:38:10] Heather Winchell: We don't have to count a pencil. A pencils of freebie. 

[00:38:13] Jay Ballard: Thank you. Good. Okay. I'm a carpenter. Yeah, you gotta have a hammer. 

[00:38:20] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:38:21] Jay Ballard: It's a given, um, tape measure. You've given me a pencil. That's great. 

[00:38:28] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:38:29] Jay Ballard: Uh, a level in important. The work, just the basic level will take you quite a ways. I think I could maybe, uh, improvise a square, but Nah, I think, I think a framing square or even a quick square, a framing square does a little more, it's a, it's larger and, and you would have a bigger capacity than a quick square, uh, which is only like seven by seven.

A framing square would be 16 by 24, and it's the standard, um. 

[00:39:07] Heather Winchell: Is a framing square. The, like, it looks like a really big ruler, like an l Is that a framing square? Yeah. Sheet. Okay. 

[00:39:13] Jay Ballard: So one leg is 16 inches and the other leg is, is 24. 

[00:39:18] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:39:20] Jay Ballard: Uh, in a framing, uh, situation, you know, that's great for marking plates, uh, also setting pitches and, and, and cutting rafters, so on and so on and so on.

It's, it's, uh, it's a very, it's almost indispensable. I'd have to have my circular saw. So I think I've got five. It'd be hard to give up a utility knife. Uh, utility knives are just so handy for so many things, but that would be the five. 

[00:39:55] Heather Winchell: Okay. Okay. So if you were going to take on an apprentice, what skills would you want to teach them first?

And what would you say are the foundational skills of your craft? 

[00:40:07] Jay Ballard: Well, uh, as a carpenter, I think, um, it's really important to take accurate measurements. The accuracy in your measuring, uh, will save you a lot of grief and, um, make sure things are plumb, level, square, uh, all those things, whether you're building furniture or you're framing for a, either a wall or a room or building a garage, uh, those things are indispensable level, plum square.

The other thing is, uh, to think through the steps of this project. It is planning, um, like earlier, consider what those steps would be and the methods that you would use, uh, because. You don't wanna get too far ahead of yourself and build something that maybe needs to be lifted, where maybe you could have built part of it, set it in place and finish it.

That that's just one example. Um, some techniques aid in assembling certain things. It may take you a little more time, but certain techniques will, uh, help you do it safely. Along with being accurate, uh, safety is very important because it is so easy to, to, well, you've seen some of the videos where homeowners, you know, cut down a tree and there's, they're practically sitting on the branch that they're cutting off the tree.

But accidents do happen in construction and especially on the weekends. And, uh, I've had my share of scrapes and cuts and, and even falls. But, you know, I would say always have in mind where your tools are at. Uh, don't leave that flat bar on the top of the ladder and think you can just move that ladder.

Here comes the flat bar or, or the hammer. So safety, uh, the sequence of the things will help you in that safety because you're then, you're stopping to think before you do the other side. Skills. Skills are the relational. Mm-hmm. Because you will at some time have to communicate with maybe a homeowner, um, or, uh, someone else, uh, another tradesman, you know, having a good attitude, being respectful, remembering you know, that you're not more important in this process, that you give everybody time.

And, um, I think the relationship thing probably comes after measuring and the accuracy and plumb level square, but it will get you a long ways in developing that people skill is what it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:43:20] Heather Winchell: Yeah, yeah. Which is essential. I mean, you know, maybe you can get by in having business without the people skills, but you probably don't have repeat customers without the people skills.

[00:43:33] Jay Ballard: That's true. Yeah. That, that is true. Yeah. That I, I would agree wholeheartedly. 

[00:43:39] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:43:40] Jay Ballard: Because, you know, people, um, are just like, well, they're like me. I would rather work with someone that's considerate in some way, patient and, uh, and will give me time of day, so, exactly. 

[00:43:59] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Jay, what do you think is a common misconception about the work that you do?

[00:44:05] Jay Ballard: Well, kind of generally, people think that, that, that anybody can do it. Hmm. Now that is true. Uh, if you take time to learn, to have the proper tools, to have the steps. To have safety in mind and all that. Yeah, we can do most anything. Uh, I suppose I don't think I can do everything. I don't even like to do everything in the trades.

Um, and it's usually hands-on, but, you know, I, I try to leave that, uh, for the next tradesman. But I think there's a difference between, uh, building a fence and building a piece of furniture. And so be realistic about what you can do. And it, it is a, a skill it usually developed. And so don't forget that, uh, yes, you, you can, you can probably lay a floor in a bedroom if you're, if you follow the instructions, if you're careful to make sure everything goes together right the first time, you won't have any problem.

And it will seem like a breeze and it will be very satisfying to do that. But just, you know, know your limits. Again, start with something easy and, uh, work your way up. See how comfortable you are, you know, in doing something. I think that's, that's probably the biggest thing, that biggest misconception. 

[00:45:40] Heather Winchell: I wonder if it's fair to say that because we do live in a cultural moment where we are very resourced, you can find information, you can find the steps.

There's, I mean, like you said, probably even too much information about all the ways you can paint a door or something. I wonder if there's sometimes just because there's so much information. There's a felt sense that something's doable without thinking through the skill that actually does go into that.

And even just the muscle memory of the way you work with things that if you've never done it before, you're, your muscles just won't know. You know? So I think that I hear, I hear you. And I think that's really great advice for people and just something to point out that like it's a really good and beautiful thing, that people are skilled in the ways that they are, and we're not all skilled in the same way.

And sometimes I even wonder if we rob ourselves of even finding those areas that we could really push into our niche and skill, because we're just trying to kind of do it all, you know? 

[00:46:52] Jay Ballard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It, it, it could be something. Well, uh, back to my, my farm wises, you know. To my thinking, the best part, the fun, exciting part, important part is that design, if that's your skill, is if that's what, you know, you've been a big part of that project and really in, in a lot of ways people are do-it-yourselfers, even when I come in because they have done the work, uh, of knowing what they need, how they want it to look.

Ideas are, are just so, um, precious. If you have an idea, you have contributed big time. And so, um, I I I would agree. And why add frustration to your life? Uh, if something is gonna bring you frustration, like you say, go to something that's natural for you, or at least you've had more experience with. 

[00:48:01] Heather Winchell: Yeah.

Yeah. Well, this has been just a great conversation and I have just one more question before we kind of transition into some more lighthearted, fun questions. But like you said, you owned your own business in the same area for years, and then you closed that business, and then when you came out here, you started doing business here as well.

And I know that being a business owner is a very dynamic job, and I'm wondering what you would say has been most rewarding and most challenging about that reality? 

[00:48:37] Jay Ballard: I mentioned it several, several times. Working with a customer. Yeah. Um, meeting with people who, who need something that hopefully I can help them with that, uh, kind of stretches me a little bit that I can get focused on.

Uh, I, I really do like and working. I guess it's a collaborative effort. I, I like that part of it. And then, uh, that's almost is important or is exciting for me then to do the work. Uh, I'm, I'm just ready, I'm ready to do the work. Now, if it's a large project and it has been weeks, I'm probably at some point gonna feel like, oh, when's it gonna be done?

But I usually then have moved on to the next phase. And so that, that's, that's very fulfilling and challenging, rewarding, uh, for me and, and keeping, uh, my focus on what I'm doing and seeing that finished product. There was a, a quote, it was a Chaus, a fire movie. Eric Little, uh, was, uh, an Olympic runner and he is quoted in saying.

When I, when I run, I feel God's pleasure. And so that for me is when I feel God's pleasure, is when I've been able to address a problem and, uh, and get such satisfaction from it. And I, I just, I feel like God is pleased as well. 

[00:50:23] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Very cool. That reminds me of a previous conversation I had on the podcast this season with a woman named Sylvie Van Huser, who wrote a book about the art of living in season.

And really an underlying premise of her work is just that we all have a gift to bring. And so I hear you saying that you feel as though being able to work with your hands in this way to bless people by creating and building and fixing is the gift that you bring. 

[00:50:54] Jay Ballard: It's the gift I bring and, and it, it feels like.

It's what I was created for. 

[00:51:01] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Very cool. I love that. I love that. Well, like I said, um, I'd like to end my interviews with just some really fun questions and so these, these will hopefully not make you think too hard, but Jay, if you could instantly become proficient at any new hobby, what would it be and why?

[00:51:22] Jay Ballard: Proficiently play the guitar. 

[00:51:25] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:51:26] Jay Ballard: I, I would love to be able to do that proficiently. 

[00:51:31] Heather Winchell: Yeah. That's great. Do you dabble? Do you dabble in guitar? 

[00:51:34] Jay Ballard: I, I have dabbled over the years. Um, it's, uh, it's kind of unfortunate because I'm in such a physical trade that, uh, eight hours of working with my hands is about all I can do, uh, for the most part.

And so I, I do have to pace myself, but, uh, you know, who knows? Maybe, maybe I'll make more time for that. Uh, if I could be proficient, uh, I, I wanna, I, I would love to do that just for my own enjoyment actually. 

[00:52:08] Heather Winchell: Yeah. That's great. What is your favorite snack food? 

[00:52:13] Jay Ballard: It would be something sweet. 

[00:52:15] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:52:17] Jay Ballard: That would go well with coffee, black coffee, so, uh, you know, probably a piece of pie or cake or cookie or something.

[00:52:27] Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. What about donuts? Are you a donut person? 

[00:52:30] Jay Ballard: And I, I am, but you know, um, just every now and then, 

[00:52:36] Heather Winchell: uh, yeah. I don't 

[00:52:37] Jay Ballard: want, I don't wanna spoil that. And, uh, besides that, I, I like to bake and, uh, mm. I haven't gotten into donuts, so I, I do have to buy those. 

[00:52:49] Heather Winchell: Yeah. What is your favorite pie? 

[00:52:53] Jay Ballard: Favorite pie? Oh boy.

[00:52:58] Heather Winchell: I'm a pie person too, so I can understand how hard this question is. I am making you think, I guess this, 

[00:53:03] Jay Ballard: this is how I, I, I don't think I've ever met a pie I didn't like, um, let's see. Oh, I think it'd have to be apple. 

[00:53:13] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:53:14] Jay Ballard: Yeah, my mom made a terrific apple pie. Um, and of course, you know, the crust was always good, uh, on her pies, but there was something about that apple pie would probably be my main go-to.

[00:53:29] Heather Winchell: Okay. Do you have a lattice top? Do you have a crumble top? 

[00:53:34] Jay Ballard: You know, if it's me doing it, it has to be a, a bottom crust and probably a crumble. 

[00:53:41] Heather Winchell: Okay. Okay. 

[00:53:42] Jay Ballard: My wife Jean makes a, a great crust, so she, she'll do it, uh, a two crust and, uh, that's usually what I will settle on. 

[00:53:52] Heather Winchell: Oh, yeah, yeah, I can understand that.

What is your favorite way to spend a Saturday?

[00:54:02] Jay Ballard: Well, I'm, I'm gonna make this maybe more current. What is most enjoyable is to spend time with family and friends. Uh, we had a, just a delightful time with, uh, friends from church. Uh, last Saturday. We went up to Risk Canyon, uh, to the firefighters festival that they had up there that. We just had a, just a, a fine time and uh, just hung out with them and you can't beat family time, um, on a Saturday or any other time.

You could find, um, that they could find time, um, to play a game or, or just hang out or grow or something. So, yeah. 

[00:54:49] Heather Winchell: Yeah, that's great. That would be a Saturday. That's great. Well, now I would like to invite you to give your own shout out. Who would you want to tell thanks for doing that and why? 

[00:55:01] Jay Ballard: Well, I just have to go with the first thing that comes to mind, especially, you know, after coming through the questions and seeing, you know, what's most important and I would give a shout out to moms and dads.

Maybe that's, that's a big umbrella, but I'm gonna go there. You know, these, these are days that are challenging. And, uh, I'm just so grateful that, that, uh, we have moms and dads bringing up children, those who are blessed with children, that, that they, that they see that there's a hope there for the future.

And, um, and, and I think a confidence, and I think you need confidence to be a, a parent, a confidence that, uh, you know, with God's help, you're going to instill these, these, um, values to the children that he's entrusted to you. And I say, you know, uh, go with God. Be diligent. Try not to get sidetracked. You know, we can become busy.

A lot of different things. You know, be quick to give encouragement, admit when you're wrong, mom and dad. Uh, I don't think children see that as a weakness. I, I think what it displays is to them is be honest. Don't be afraid to show a silly side, you know, lighthearted, you know, kind of things. So to the parents out there, mom and dad, single parents, single mom, single dad, whatever the situation, each day is new.

There's a, there's a quote at the church that we attend, practice resurrection, which for me in this case means that each day is new. God has given you a, a new opportunity. Uh, he's given you this life a new day. Start in again and stay the course. It, it will be worth it. And no doubt that you will honor him in being faithful, keeping promises and so way to go.

I love my grandkids, but you know, I, I don't quite have the energy. So Mom, dad, good for you. Um, yeah, yeah, you, you, uh, you, you're doing fine. If you're needing help, seek a friend. Yeah. Don't, don't be an island. So that's my shout out. Hang in there. 

[00:57:53] Heather Winchell: Awesome. I love that. And, you know, the, you know, the tagline is, thanks for doing that.

And then kind of the undercurrent is, it matters and yeah. I mean, the work that you do as parents, it matters. It matters in really big ways. And so I think that's, yeah. I can join you in that shout out. Yeah. Jay, I'm just so pleased to have had the opportunity to sit down, to hear from you, to get insight into what you have loved about your work and how you came to do it.

And I don't know if you know this, but I end all of my episodes with a haiku that I've written for you that just kind of expresses why I wanted to have you on the show. And it's my gift to you. 

[00:58:39] Jay Ballard: Yeah, it's wonderful. 

[00:58:42] Heather Winchell: Thanks for doing that. Home and life made better with kindness, wood and nails. 

[00:58:49] Jay Ballard: Hmm. That's wonderful.

Thank you. You're so very 

[00:58:54] Heather Winchell: welcome. And thank you. 

[00:58:55] Jay Ballard: Thank you. And um, I think I told you earlier, just taking the time to reflect, you know, there's uh, plenty of reason to be thankful. 

[00:59:06] Heather Winchell: Mm. Uh, 

[00:59:06] Jay Ballard: in every situation and uh, God is faithful. 

[00:59:13] Heather Winchell: Amen. 

[00:59:14] Jay Ballard: Amen.

[00:59:25] Heather Winchell: Thanks for doing that. Is presented to you by the apiary, a place for beholding and becoming, and thank you for joining us for today's episode. Before you go, I have a couple of invitations. If you found it meaningful, could I invite you to take two minutes to rate and review the show? I also invite you to help me create an upcoming episode of thanks for doing that by nominating someone or suggesting a topic.

Let's link arms to call out the good and the beautiful that we see around us because I really believe that finding delight in our divided and difficult world could make all the difference.