When Words Aren't Enough: Storied Art That Holds Out Hope

Northern Colorado artist Jessica Kuddes (JMK) creates one-of-a-kind paintings that feel like windows into redemption—visual “spiritual landscapes” that hold out hope when life is hard. In this conversation, we talk about protected margin, art born from grief, and why imagery can carry us when words can’t. 

She challenges my conviction that play doh should never be mixed (but really, how many shades of brown can you make?!?) and talks about how early influences shaped her belief that she is an artist and using that gift matters.

In this episode:

• Jessica Kuddes (JMK) shares how protected margin has shaped both her family life and her creative work
• The early influences that formed her as an artist—from color-mixing with Play-Doh to mentors who named her gifts before she believed them
• Why much of her art begins with asking God for a picture of a “spiritual landscape”
• How grief and trauma transformed her relationship with creativity—and why imagery can carry us when words can’t
• A behind-the-scenes look at a commissioned painting that became a lived reminder of the both/and nature of life
• The core values behind her work: connection, hope, beauty, and trust that God multiplies small acts of faith
• How writing becomes necessary when an idea is “too complex for a two-dimensional image”
• The story of a Philippians 3–inspired piece that unexpectedly accompanied a friend through betrayal and rebuilding
• Why Jessica believes hope doesn’t erase pain—but meets us inside it

Mentioned in the episode:

• Colossians 1:24–27 (ESV)  
• Philippians 3:7–14 (ESV)  
• Itzhak Perlman — “Greatest Hits (Spotify listing)  

Catch more of the story @thanks.for.doing.that.podcast! 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Heather Winchell: Hey, there you are listening to thanks for doing that, a podcast celebrating people and ideas that make this world a better place. I am Heather Winchell, your host and chief enthusiast, and I'm on a mission to bring you conversations that encourage, inspire and delight light. So stay tuned for another episode where we explore the things we do, the reasons we do them, and why it matters.

[00:00:46] Hello and welcome back. So I have a large, beautiful commissioned painting hanging in the heart of my home, and the only nod to the artist behind it is three scripted initials in the bottom right corner. JMK. Today I am joined by JMK, also known as Jessica Michael Cudi. She is a Northern Colorado based artist that has up to this point, specialized in custom, one of a kind paintings, and I love her style.

[00:01:15] But more than that, I love the ethos behind her art. Every piece just creates, tells a story, and often a prophetic story to its recipient. The pieces are often a mix of the present circumstances and the vision of the recipient, along with Jess's own understanding of how the threat of redemption and hope is woven into their life.

[00:01:35] Simply put, her work is unlike anything else I have ever encountered. Jess, thank you so much for joining me today, and can you give us a window into what this season of life looks like for you? 

[00:01:48] Jessica Kuddes: Yes, I'm super excited to talk with you today. My life right now, I have four kids from 15 down to nine years old.

[00:01:59] They're all in school full-time. This is my third year with kids all in school, so I've gotten past the like. Rest, you know, and like debrief from kids at home, little kids at home. I've settled into kind of what that looks like. I do not work, so I'm just at home. My husband also works from home. Um, so Seth own the company and he, yeah, he's home all the time and so we get to see each other all the time, which is really awesome.

[00:02:27] My time during the school day is very. Full of protected margin. Um, that's something that I kinda realized I thrive in. And it, it's a really big part of, I think, how God made me and how I am meant to be freed up for people's like, you know, emergency kind of like hardships or needs that maybe other people wouldn't be freed up to meet.

[00:02:58] It's also just like really important I think for how my brain works, to have so much time to just think organically without a purpose or having to figure something out. But just see what God does in times of meditating and thinking on things, painting, whatever. And then as soon as the kids get home, we are busy, busy, busy the rest of the night and homework and everything.

[00:03:22] And yeah, a high priority I think, in our life right now is connecting deeply with each of our kids. Um, so yeah, that's what my life looks like. 

[00:03:31] Heather Winchell: Yeah. And I mean, you said you've got one in high school. You've got one in lower elementary, so the whole span 

[00:03:37] Jessica Kuddes: Yep. 

[00:03:37] Heather Winchell: Yeah. In connecting with that age span looks different for each kid.

[00:03:42] Yeah, it really does. 

[00:03:43] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. They're no longer all little kids that kinda do stuff together. They're all very different needs and Yeah. Developmentally. Yeah, it's interesting. Fun. 

[00:03:51] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And good for you. It feels, it feels like you really have to. Prioritize creating protected margin to gain that. So I can tell in you saying that you've been able to have that, that along the way you've probably had to give a lot of nos or be very attentive to what you give your yes to.

[00:04:13] Jessica Kuddes: Yep, yep. Definitely. The last three years I felt like have very much been, you know, saying yes to this, realizing that's not quite. Fitting with who I am, and you know, it's taking away energy towards this other thing that I really feel called to put my energy towards or whatever. So 

[00:04:30] Heather Winchell: yeah, 

[00:04:31] Jessica Kuddes: it's been interesting journey.

[00:04:32] Heather Winchell: Yeah, I feel like I'm kind of learning that. I feel like I have a tendency that if there's like any little bit of space that comes into my life, I'm like looking for like, okay, great. How do I feel that, what? What do I put there? Yeah. And then there's like five things that I try to put there because I get excited about a lot of things.

[00:04:47] Right. But I think I've also just been learning that, huh. Maybe all these years I've thought I'm a person that kind of thrives if my plate is a little over full, but maybe actually I've just never felt the freedom to consider am I overfilling my plate to begin with? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I, 

[00:05:03] Jessica Kuddes: I mean, maybe it's just my bias perspective, but I feel like I don't think anybody's meant to thrive with their plate a little bit over full.

[00:05:10] Like I just think having that space where it's unorganized and God can come in and do whatever the heck he wants. Is pretty exciting. And I think, I personally think everybody should have space like that. Mm-hmm. In their life. So, 

[00:05:23] Heather Winchell: well, I am inspired to continue the good fight of trying to create that. So thank you for that.

[00:05:28] And especially because of what I know comes out of that. Yeah. Which is why I wanted to talk with you today. I mean, my home is literally full of your art. Um, fun fact for the listener. Jess and I have known each other for like a decade. She and her husband live like a mile away from us. They're some of our best friends.

[00:05:45] And so it's just like. Such a delight to be able to shine the spotlight on what she does, 'cause she would never do that for herself. But, um, to that end, Jess, to the end of the art that you make, I would just love to start by talking about what it has looked like for you throughout your life to create.

[00:06:06] Did you have any early influences? Are you more self-taught? 

[00:06:10] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah, so my very first memories of art. Sitting, maybe it was our dining room table with my dad and him teaching me color mixing with Play-Doh. Okay. You know, just take the, take the yellow little bit of yellow Play-Doh, a little bit of Red Play-Doh, mix it up, you know, knd it really well until it becomes a new color.

[00:06:33] What color is it? You know? So we would make the whole range with Play-Doh, all these colors. Um, you know, homemade Play-Doh, I don't even, I don't know if they had store brought Play-Doh, but we had homemade 

[00:06:44] Heather Winchell: Because you were overseas for much of your chocolate, right? 

[00:06:47] Jessica Kuddes: So maybe, yes. So maybe here at that time they had, um, and then again with him also like learning how to blend colors with crayons.

[00:06:56] He taught me that. Um, so that's my earliest memory of art. Um, 

[00:07:01] Heather Winchell: okay. I just have to comment on the fact that like, we are like militant about not mixing Play-Doh because inevitably for our kids it's always turned into like a weird brown. 

[00:07:10] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:07:10] Heather Winchell: But that's a great 

[00:07:11] Jessica Kuddes: way to teach 

[00:07:12] Heather Winchell: kids color 

[00:07:13] Jessica Kuddes: theory and think how many different kinds of brown they could make.

[00:07:18] Heather Winchell: That is, that is such a picture of Jess's personality. Oh my goodness. I love it. 

[00:07:24] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. But anyways, beyond that, I think I am realizing now, looking back over my life, that I've always had a very, very strong imagination, like, um, imagery, visual kind of brain. And so that's a huge part of it. My mom is not super artistic.

[00:07:45] Or at all really kind of tried to be crafty, but it was kind of corny and didn't work out. But it was her. But she, I feel like, has influenced my art massively because of a, her praying for my heart to be compassionate towards other people, which, you know, I mean, I don't think any little kids is, but that she saw that grow in me and then the way that she had a hopeful expectation of God doing awesome things.

[00:08:14] Is a massive influencer on my life. And so it has shaped my art. And the other thing, I think that's like almost the central, I dunno what the right word is, idea behind a lot of my art is based on, uh, like a spiritual exercise that she, I don't know if she made it up, heard it from somewhere else, or. You know, adapted or something.

[00:08:43] But basically you kinda sit before God and you ask him to give you a picture of your spiritual landscape. Where's your heart and soul right now? What's it experiencing? What would it look like for your feelings to be a landscape? Like what would that landscape look like? And where are you in it? And where is God in it?

[00:09:06] And so I, I remember doing that a lot. As I was growing up, um, you know, specifically maybe like high school and onward. And that in essence is, is a lot of my art. I'm, I'm turning people's spiritual landscapes into something they can look at and hold onto or, or turning mine into that. So that's huge. And then in high school I had an amazing friend and her amazing mom.

[00:09:36] Lindsay and Paula Burkins. And Paula, um, like their entryway. Paula had painted it this beautiful golden yellow and it was just covered with her daughter Lindsay's art, like framed nice, these fancy frames, you know, and it's just, it's children's art. But that spoke so deeply to me of like. This is a woman who believes in her daughter's artistic abilities.

[00:10:03] Even as they're growing. She's proud of them, they're beautiful. And she just kind of tucked me into that. And so she was the first person I remember who really like said, you are an artist and I believe in you. You know, so she, she, she owned a, um, like an interior design business and she would just be like, Hey, Jess and Lindsay, um.

[00:10:28] I need you guys to design a mosaic table for this space that I'm making and we're like, never done mosaic us. Like you're being paid for this job and you're gonna have us make the table. You know? And she's like, yeah, sure. You've got this. You know, or she'd be like, Hey, you know, this crisis pregnancy center, uh, is opening a cafe and you two, I'm gonna send you two.

[00:10:48] And you guys go, like, paint their whole basement into a, a mural of under the sea to, you know. Serve them. We're like, are you coming with us? She's like, no, you guys are just gonna go. You stay there for, you know, four days and just figure it out and you do it. I believe in you. You know? So she was always doing that kind of thing where it is like, you're an artist.

[00:11:09] Like use it. Use it to bless people. You've got this, like God's behind you. So that was really, really influential. 

[00:11:17] Heather Winchell: That would be, 

[00:11:18] Jessica Kuddes: yeah. Yeah. Um, especially 'cause at that time. I remember feeling like, well, Paula thinks I'm an artist. I'm not sure if I actually am. Like, I'm not very skilled. What does it mean to be an artist?

[00:11:31] You know? So it took a while for me to, you know, come along her vision for me even. But then in college, I'm not sure what it looked like or how people knew to ask me, but I had people start asking me to commission. Paintings for them. Like, Hey, you know the story of Moses parting, the red sea's been really meaningful to me lately.

[00:11:56] Could you like paint it for me? And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I don't know how I'll paint people, but it's like this thing that God's doing in their life. I'm like, well, I want to like support that you've asked for help Basically in like holding onto this, I'll do it. Like I'll take a step of faith with.

[00:12:10] You know, very maker skills, and I'm just gonna trust God that whatever comes out is gonna be helpful for you. You know? So I had like multiple experiences like that, just kind of, yeah, that idea of like step in, step into these little skills. Even you don't feel like you're an artist. People have asked you to bless 'em with this, you know, why would you not?

[00:12:32] Mm-hmm. Just, just do it. Just trust God. Um. And then I got married and had kids and um, my art kind of transformed into just like, you know, little things for them making toys or sewing quilts for them or painting their rooms, you know, with cool mural ish type things or whatever. Um, had a little closet, my art closet, my sewing machine and whatever, like tucked in a hallway.

[00:12:59] And then I think where. All of these things kind of melded into something, a ministry, an identity, an understanding of what I'm supposed to do with this was we moved to a new house and there was space in this new house for me to have my own space or room, or I still don't even call it a studio. It feels too like.

[00:13:27] Professional or something. Um, but my husband Seth was like, I want to make this room awesome for you. And I just had this vision of like, I want a beautiful room where I meet with God. And God then allows me to like, move through that meeting with him, create something and have it spread out to bless somebody.

[00:13:50] So that, that's kinda the vision I had for this room. Like, this is gonna be a room where I meet God. Creativity comes, it blesses people. Um, and so my husband was so kind and, you know, built me a little art desk and helped me paint and made a space for me. And, um, and shortly after that my mom died and

[00:14:18] it was the hardest thing that I'd ever been through. Hmm. It was like my whole ground was shaken. I'd gone through like her having cancer in high school. She survived. That was hard. But there was something about the trauma of losing this person who felt so much like

[00:14:42] the, the closest person who had, who had mirrored the absolute delight of God for me. Her being gone out of the world was so hard and to process that I couldn't read these complicated, you know, Christian self-help books or you know, deep theology. It was hard even to honestly read much of scripture. Like my brain was just in a traumatized state, and how I dealt with it was to paint and my art just kind of like.

[00:15:19] Because I was painting or drawing so much, my skill increased. It became a much more, um, fluid, comfortable way to like, interact with God and his word and the truth and my feelings. And, um, I wasn't as hampered by my lack of skill. And I think, yeah, it just kind of formed a lot of, or it was the practice ground of like, yeah, this is really important.

[00:15:44] Having a, having a visual image when you're going through something so hard. Instead of just a bunch of words that are hard for your brain to process is really valuable. And so I think from there, you know, yeah, it just led to me understanding more of like, okay, this is why I'm created with my brain. So visual with these like, you know, creative artistic ish talents, the compassion heart that I have, um, this, this like visionary kind of like.

[00:16:17] View of God that I have ma a magical view of God is kinda how I would maybe describe it. Um, yeah. And that all kind of melded into like how I am an artist today. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:30] Heather Winchell: It's really striking that a lot of your art is like, comes from pain. Mm-hmm. Other people's are your own and how, but, but it's not, it's not.

[00:16:45] It's definitely not dark, but it's not even like somber or, yeah. It, it's not heavy. It's, it comes from pain, but it, but it's somehow like what you see is the, like glimmer of hope. 

[00:16:57] Jessica Kuddes: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:58] Heather Winchell: As opposed to the darkness. Even though the darkness is, or it's like present or it's like you're capturing what the pain is, but transformed.

[00:17:07] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:17:08] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So, okay. So you said you're a very visual person. Mm-hmm. When you sit down to work on a project, do you generally already have the idea in your mind, like, or is it more of a process of unfolding discovery? 

[00:17:27] Jessica Kuddes: Mm-hmm. So I would say in general, my paintings or drawings have like two categories.

[00:17:36] One is inspired just by nature. Hmm. So. Something that I've seen, I have this desire to like soak it in. And so the act of trying to paint it, um, it just pushes it deeper. Like it's a deeper experience of that beauty. And so usually, you know, I'm starting with. A photo or something that I've taken on a walk or something, and

[00:18:17] I have no hope of it looking exactly like what I saw, and that doesn't really matter to me. Um, what matters is the, just the exploration of the beauty. Even if I can't. Get the right color. I'm like, well that's so cool, God, that you got the right color. Mm-hmm. Like that. Like how did you make that awesome color?

[00:18:35] I can't seem to do it. Or you know, whatever. But it just becomes this personal, like my expression of, it's like, it's like a personal wordless praise of like, God, I saw the thing you made and I just think it's so awesome. Mm. But all said, like by me trying to paint it, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Um. So that is kind of that process.

[00:18:58] And the other kind of art that I do is more inspired by like ideas or imagery in the Bible or life with God may, maybe more circumstances and that, yeah, it's inspired more by like the, maybe the, the less concrete ideas of like who God is and what he's doing. But trying to make that visual. So, I mean, very, very often when I'm, you know, journaling or studying scripture or something, a a, a picture of it will come to mind.

[00:19:36] Like I just, I think visually, and so there's this picture in my mind of what this idea, like, I don't know what it means. Hmm. And so I'll, you know, try to put that out. Or, or I'm hearing about somebody who's going through something really hard and kind of my way to process that and handle it and not be overwhelmed by just the sadness for them is to say, God, give me a picture of how you're caring for them.

[00:20:07] Hmm. I need to, I need to know, I need to have like a tangible. Even though it's not exactly like literally what's happening, but some kind of deeply tangible picture of what, what he's doing to care for them. And often that's what, you know, will, then I paint that and I give it to them. Mm-hmm. And that's, you know, how I kind handle it.

[00:20:31] And then also if, you know people who know me and who know I do this, um, they'll say, you know, God gave me this picture. Could you, could you combine your heart with it and, and make a representation of this thing that God has been saying to me or this imagery that he's given me? And that's, that's my very favorite.

[00:20:55] 'cause it just feels like, gosh, the spirit of God in that person who's walking through pain, spirit of God and me are combining into this journey that God's doing together. Mm-hmm. And it's just so, so cool. And then it's like. Who knows what God's gonna do with it. Like I put my little, you know, ability to make some kind of imagery and then I'm like, okay, God, here you go.

[00:21:19] Hopefully, you know, I, well, not hopefully, but like, I know you're gonna do like even more than what I could imagine would come from this little, my meager skills. 

[00:21:29] Heather Winchell: Hmm. You know, 

[00:21:29] Jessica Kuddes: so then we just wait and see what God does. 

[00:21:31] Heather Winchell: I would not call them meager. Uh, she's being Yeah, they're, you, you have beautiful work, but.

[00:21:39] You know, Jess, I'm struck. So I, I started this interview by stating that I have a commission to painting. Mm-hmm. You know, a collaboration between us. Yeah. My idea. Your execution. 

[00:21:48] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:21:49] Heather Winchell: Hanging in our dining room. And it's just interesting because we talked about that last year, the end of last year, and you gifted it to me mm-hmm.

[00:21:59] In, I think like late January mm-hmm. Of this year, 2025 at time of recording. The painting and I'll, I'll have a picture somewhere that, that the listener can see it, but it's of, of a path, kind of straddling a mountain or it's kind of like a path winding up a mountain. But the sky, you know, if you look to the right, the sky is like clear and blue and the clouds are white and wispy.

[00:22:28] But if you look to the left. It's dark and it's kind of raining and it's, it's, it's kind of like, what is the word I'm looking for? 

[00:22:37] Jessica Kuddes: Ominous. 

[00:22:38] Heather Winchell: Edgy and ominous. Yeah. And, and it was based on this like real life kind of, um, visual that I kept having of coming up on, you know, like driving my car in a very clear division in the sky, like mm-hmm.

[00:22:52] Some of it's cloudy, some of it's. Bright and sunny or you know, like walking on a path like that was just something that happened a lot over last year, like in the sky, in the actual sky. But I took it to mean like, man in life there are going to be these, you know, threats and this kind of like ominous opportunity for like walking through hard things in like really beautiful days.

[00:23:17] Mm-hmm. And just kind of holding the tension, the both and yeah. Right. Life is both and, and it's just really striking that you gifted that to me at the beginning of what I would say is probably one of the more challenging 

[00:23:31] Jessica Kuddes: years of 

[00:23:31] Heather Winchell: my life. You know, I've walked through some really incredible joyous highs.

[00:23:39] Yeah. And. The loss of dear friends, like multiple losses. Yeah. And so it's, so in that way, I think I'm just kind of trying to come back to what you said about how, you know, we collaborate on this thing and then God does all kinds of things with it. Yeah. And I can't tell you how often that painting has served as a reminder.

[00:24:00] Like life is both and 

[00:24:02] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:24:02] Heather Winchell: Today feels really ominous and dark and gloomy and that's not the way it always is. And you know, conversely like. Today feels really great and it won't always be like that. Mm-hmm. You know, it's just like mm-hmm. Holding the tension. 

[00:24:16] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. And I know you've said before, like kind of in the, um, in the like stormy kind of side, there's like pink Yes.

[00:24:26] In the back of it kind of. Um, which, you know, it just kind of happened as I was painting. I wasn't like purposely exactly doing that. But then to hear you talk about how meaningful that color is to you. Does it mean to you again? Okay. God. So pink 

[00:24:42] Heather Winchell: in the sky is a reminder that God loves me. 

[00:24:45] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:24:46] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:24:46] Jessica Kuddes: So I was just like, there we go.

[00:24:48] There's God. Like, I didn't purposely put the pink there, but he did 

[00:24:52] Heather Winchell: right 

[00:24:52] Jessica Kuddes: through in the north sky me without me knowing. 

[00:24:54] Heather Winchell: Right. 

[00:24:54] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. So cool. 

[00:24:56] Heather Winchell: It it is really so cool. Yeah. There's 

[00:24:58] Jessica Kuddes: another, um, painting I did for somebody. It's like a big tree and I had used. Like gold paint, um, just kind of a little bit throughout.

[00:25:09] Um, and it became this like picture to this friend of like, every now and then, just when the sun hits it, right? Then you can see all the gold shining through, right? Mm-hmm. And so just begin this picture of like, in her life, it was like God is always doing it. The gold's always there, but sometimes you can't always see it.

[00:25:30] Heather Winchell: Right. 

[00:25:31] Jessica Kuddes: You know? But it is there. And I was like, I didn't do that on purpose. I didn't know the sun was gonna hit it at a certain time, and then you'd see the gold and then other times you wouldn't. I didn't plan that. God did. 

[00:25:41] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:25:41] Jessica Kuddes: You know? 

[00:25:42] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Incredible. Yeah, 

[00:25:45] Jessica Kuddes: it's 

[00:25:45] Heather Winchell: really cool. Yeah, it's awesome. It is really awesome.

[00:25:49] Yeah. And you know, I mentioned before that I love the ethos behind your art. 

[00:25:54] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:25:55] Heather Winchell: What would you say are the core values or principles that you hold as you create? 

[00:26:00] Jessica Kuddes: I loved thinking about this question. I don't think I'd ever like put it into words and concise thoughts, but yeah, there's definitely some like very clear ones.

[00:26:12] Um, one I think is like a very strong belief I have that God is always communicating to us through nature, through the bible, through our stories. Um, another one is related, but that kind of what we were talking about, that God does. Awesome big things through our tiny little acts of faith. Hmm. He always does.

[00:26:35] 'cause that's just what he does. You know, he takes the little five loaves and two fishes and he feeds a crowd. And so I just am always very expectant that I don't feel that impressed with what I've offered, but I feel very confident that what he'll do with it is gonna be very impressive even if I never figure out what that is or find out until, you know, eternity.

[00:26:58] The other one is. The belief, the desire that I want to be connected to God. I wanna be connected to people with their story. So my art is almost always, I can't think of any art. That's not my art, that's not trying to connect with people or with God. Hmm. If I'm painting something beautiful I saw in nature, it's because I want to like soak in God's.

[00:27:24] Beauty and goodness, if I'm making something for somebody's 'cause I want to enter into their story and feel connected and have my self be part of their story and themself be part of mine. Um, so connection. Um, the other one was just the strong belief that imagery sometimes is more powerful than a bunch of words.

[00:27:44] Like it is so powerful. To not just hear God loves you and have some kind of theology of suffering or God's redemption of it, but to have an imagery in your mind of you being tucked tight, close to Jesus' chest. You know him curled around you in the midst of a battlefield that does something different.

[00:28:06] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:28:07] Jessica Kuddes: You know, it does something different. And specifically in times of trauma, like just our, you know, you're in trauma, your brain is in fight or flight, it's, it's not doing the high processing that. You know, maybe how you usually relate to God or think about him and these deep ideas or, you know, memorizing verses or whatever your, whatever your way is usually in normal life, you're doing it in this like, um, the high brain processing level.

[00:28:35] When you're in trauma, all of a sudden you're like, I can't, I can't do it. I don't know how to do it. Like I read scripture and just goes over my head or whatever it is, and said, have these images mm-hmm. To hold onto. Is like, so important. So that's a value. Um, and I think kind of what you were talking about before, yeah.

[00:28:54] None of my, none of my paintings feel sad. I don't think I've ever painted a sad, a sad painting. So the idea of hope, like I, I so strongly believe that we will all be absolutely blown away by the suffering that we have endured, that we've entrusted to God that he makes into something that is just. Like astoundingly beautiful.

[00:29:17] Mm. I strongly believe that. Um, even when you have no idea what that could possibly look like, which is true. What's that verse about? Like, you know, he is doing something that No, no man has ever, ever even been able to comprehend. That's what he is always doing. Mm-hmm. Um, and so trying to capture a little like, or communicate like.

[00:29:38] There is. There is something that's gonna be really awesome. I don't know what it is. It doesn't take away the pain right now. It doesn't fix anything right now, but I really, really, really believe that that's what he's doing. Mm-hmm. Like in the midst right now, he's actually accomplishing that. So Hope, beauty.

[00:30:00] Heather Winchell: Yeah. I love that lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely see that in your work, Jess. And I think, I think the listeners should also know that your skill goes beyond the easel. You are a gifted writer. And in fact, the very first time I engaged with any of your work, um, your artistic talent was through a written story.

[00:30:23] Mm-hmm. That was read aloud. That I was just blessed to be there to hear. It was Hi room and the high king. Remember this? Yeah. Um, how would you say your writing process is similar to your painting and how is it different? 

[00:30:36] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. Um,

[00:30:41] I don't know, um, how to describe it exactly, but it's, when I'm, when I'm led to write, it's because there's some imagery in my mind that's too complicated to put in a 2D. Mm. You know, something, it's either like a scene that's like, things are happening, you know? So I can't just paint that needs to be like, it's not static, you know?

[00:31:05] Mm-hmm. Or it's like ideas layered over top of other ideas. I'm like, I don't know how you'd ever paint that, but it is kind of visual in my mind still. Mm. Mm-hmm. So actually I find writing a lot harder than painting probably because Yeah. The ideas that I'm trying to get across are, are. Just a little bit more harder to communicate.

[00:31:23] So when I'm writing, I'm usually doing writing stories of some kind or a scene that's happening. And so it gets at that same idea of, you know, an imagery is easier to hold onto than a bunch of theological something, rather in a hard time. So the idea of story getting past your defenses getting is kinda like a side, a side door to your heart and your.

[00:31:51] Your understanding of God, your ability to experience and hold onto who he is and what he's doing. Um, so that's still very much the same and it's in there. 

[00:32:01] Heather Winchell: Yeah. So it sounds like much like your painting, you have something in mind, you are really wanting to communicate. Mm-hmm. It's just more complex than the 2D image.

[00:32:11] Mm-hmm. How much of your writing is like an urgency to communicate that? And how much is just your own exploring and processing what you think about something? 

[00:32:24] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. I, I feel like it's, um, it's usually like all these thoughts that I have are still visual in my mind. Mm. You know, it's like I'm seeing this idea layered over top of this one, or it's like, almost like a diagram.

[00:32:41] Or something. And so I feel like the process is getting it out into a linear form that anybody else would even understand what I'm trying to say. Mm. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that it does take, it, it's a little bit ex exploratory, but I feel like usually it's just like the exploration is how does this fit into words?

[00:33:03] Mm-hmm. You know, how, how, how can this. To be communicated to somebody else. 'cause that's, I think that's it. That's the connection piece. It's like I don't want to just, I don't want to just write it necessarily for me to understand. I want it to be something that I take to somebody else and then we connect over it.

[00:33:20] Heather Winchell: Right. 

[00:33:20] Jessica Kuddes: You know? So yeah. The exploration's more like, oh, this is how you would des this is what I'm really trying to describe what I'm seeing in my mind. How you would describe how those are related or, you know, something like that. 

[00:33:34] Heather Winchell: Yeah, 

[00:33:35] Jessica Kuddes: yeah, 

[00:33:35] Heather Winchell: yeah. And you currently have a few writing projects that you're working on as you also paint?

[00:33:41] Jessica Kuddes: I am. So I, last year started just, uh, writing like a novel story about marrying Joseph as a way to just kinda meditate on the story of Jesus birth for Christmas and. It was, it's the only kind of thing like that that I've ever done, but that was, that's much more exploratory. Like I'm just using, writing their story as a way of thinking more deeply about what the scripture says about it.

[00:34:10] Like why, why were they all by themselves in Bethlehem? Where were their families? Or you know, I don't know. Just different questions that I wouldn't have thought to think 

[00:34:19] Heather Winchell: right 

[00:34:20] Jessica Kuddes: about. If I wasn't writing the story and being like, how do we get from point hit this point to that point, you know, how should the narrative go?

[00:34:27] Because I don't really know. Mm-hmm. What was their motivation to go send, you know, Mary to, to her cousin Elizabeth's house? I don't know. You know, so that was cool. Um, the other thing I'm working on is kinda like a. Bible companion book. It's like a holistic compilation of my engagement over my life with the Bible.

[00:34:59] So it's like got some of the art in it. It's got questions I've had, it's got prayers I've written in response to, you know, passages or little short stories or scenes that I wrote down of imagery I had when I read that, or, um, word definitions that I found. Helpful. Like, it's just very holistic every way that I've kind of just interacted with scripture, um, compiled.

[00:35:27] I don't know what any of these things are for, but I don't know. I feel like, oh, I can't wait. I feel led to do them. 

[00:35:31] Heather Winchell: I cannot wait to see that. Jess, what would you say has been most formative for you in your work? As a creative? 

[00:35:39] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah, the most formative. Has been walking with God through my story and through other people's stories with them.

[00:35:48] Um, for sure. That's just where I've heard God speak, and that's my intent is to create what he has spoken to me, not to make up things on my own. Mm-hmm. Um, and the other one, another one has definitely been soaking in just like the imagery that's in the Bible. There's like. I think maybe only in the last, you know, five years have I really realized there is so much imagery in the Bible.

[00:36:20] It is not just, you know, do this, don't do this. So and so moved here and God did that. All of it is just soaked in this imagery. And so I think learning the language of the imagery of the Bible, mm. Has just like, yeah. Fleshed out what God already did in my mind to make my mind visual, um, and brought the like deeper meaning to it all.

[00:36:43] And then practice doing lots of art has been incredibly formative. I think a lot of people probably have imagery come to mind when they're doing life or reading the word or living, you know, and. The practice of actually, like, don't just keep it in your mind, like have it come out somehow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:10] Try, try to draw it, try to write what you saw, that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not just letting it like, oh yeah, I had the imagery move on. Mm-hmm. But 

[00:37:20] Heather Winchell: to reflect on it in some way to like Into explore it. Yeah. 

[00:37:22] Jessica Kuddes: Explore it, yeah. Through creativity. Yep. 

[00:37:24] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yes. 

[00:37:25] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah, 

[00:37:26] Heather Winchell: it's, it's really incredible how, I mean, I think we've been wired to do that and we all have creative difference or you know, like I can't.

[00:37:35] Presently and I don't think ever paint like you do or draw like you do. 'cause she also can draw really well. Um, but I do think that we all have some way Yeah. Of expressing creatively mm-hmm. What's inside us. Mm-hmm. I think we all have a gift there. 

[00:37:53] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. Even I know of a, a gal who makes amazing Excel spreadsheets about.

[00:38:00] Things that she's done studied in the word, and I'm like, that is amazing. It's awesome. 

[00:38:05] Heather Winchell: Yeah, 

[00:38:06] Jessica Kuddes: yeah. 

[00:38:07] Heather Winchell: Tell you what, and then that's an 

[00:38:08] Jessica Kuddes: engineer creativity right there. 

[00:38:09] Heather Winchell: There you go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I'm thankful you voiced that because I was, I was thinking, yeah, we all have a creative gift, but I, I don't think I would've thought of spreadsheets, but Right.

[00:38:19] Yeah. It's, 

[00:38:19] Jessica Kuddes: it's that kind of 

[00:38:20] Heather Winchell: organization and, yep. Intention. Yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:38:24] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:38:25] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Fun. Yeah. Good for them. Right. Um, so Jess, I mentioned before that many of your paintings are one of a kind. Well actually all of your paintings are one of a kind. Don't 'cause don't currently produce any of them. I don't make print.

[00:38:41] Yeah. Or you don't. I'm 

[00:38:42] Jessica Kuddes: not, I'm not technological enough for that. 

[00:38:44] Heather Winchell: We'll get you there. But a lot of them are very personal to the person that you gift them to or to your own experience, like walking into your home. It's just so delightful. 'cause I'm not sure there's. Any area of your home that doesn't have a lot of your art, of the things you've seen in nature, which is really cool, and it's like, I don't know, it's kind of cool to walk in and to be like, oh my gosh, that's brand new.

[00:39:06] And you're like, oh yeah, you know, I did that on like Tuesday. And it's like, wow. You can produce something like that on a Tuesday. Good for you. But a lot of the art that you give away 

[00:39:15] Jessica Kuddes: mm-hmm. 

[00:39:16] Heather Winchell: Is very personal and a gift to the person that you give it to. 

[00:39:19] Jessica Kuddes: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:20] Heather Winchell: Is there a piece that you could pick out of all those that you've gifted?

[00:39:24] To tell us about the reason you made it, the vision behind it, in your own experience in bringing that vision to life and the hope that it carries. 

[00:39:32] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. Um, yeah, to kinda look through A lot of the times when I've given something away, I'm like, it's theirs now. Mm. And it kind of just goes outta my mind. So I'm like, what have I given and what, what did it have, you know, for that season when I'm walking with somebody, it's like.

[00:39:50] Front and center in kind of both of our lives. But then I'm like, now it's theirs. Hmm. Like whatever interpretation, they wanna come up with it, with God, it's theirs. So anyways, as I was looking through, I found one which I actually haven't given to the person that it means the most to, and I think I should give it to them.

[00:40:06] So that was kind of cool to realize. So I made this painting for a women's retreat or drawing, painting. It's got both and. It was just based off of, you know, I think, I think we had three sessions and one of the sessions was on Philippians three, you know, counting all things lost for the sake of knowing Christ.

[00:40:24] And, you know, we, we had drawings for each of these sessions or paintings. And what came to mind for that was, you know, the left side's, kind of this, you know, pen and ink. Very concrete drawing of, you know. Words, you know, like comfort, dreams, your stability, family possessions, and there's like, you know, pictures of like a nice car and a home and a, you know, fruitful harvest field or whatever.

[00:40:52] Just kinda all these things that we kind of would, these concrete things were like, this is where my life is. And then in the middle is this girl, you know, arms thrown back, running away from those things into this. Watercolor, kinda like mix of fireworks and glitter in a sunrise, like, you know, abstract thing, you know, on the others on the right hand side.

[00:41:22] And, um, it was super, super, like meaningful to make that, to have it used by women at the women's retreat to like, you know, look at it, meditate on it, you know, as they were studying Philippians three. Um, but several months after the retreat. Um, a friend of mine discovered just devastating betrayal in her marriage.

[00:41:45] Mm. Uh, turned her life upside down, uh, feeling like her feet had no ground to stand on, and that painting became this central imagery for her, um, that God had hope and redemption and beauty, you know, in store for her, even in the face of losing like literally everything. Yeah. And, you know, kind of. Maybe, you know, a few months into her healing journey, she even had this like vision of just kind of being surrounded by God and the, in the vision God was like that, you know, golden pinkish, you know, glowing watercolor of that painting, which I'm like, I don't know.

[00:42:31] I don't know if God's exactly like that, but I don't know. Um, and then now as like, you know, as they. By God's grace have worked really hard and are rebuilding their marriage now it's this picture of the new life that they're rebuilding with God is worth it and it's beautiful and it's worth stepping courageously into.

[00:42:53] So that whole, I dunno that the way that God has just used that picture of like. I dunno, I've always kind of pictured that passage of like, oh, you know, you let go of all these hard things, hard, fast, steady, foundational things and you run in, run into Jesus. 'cause it's better. I've always viewed it more like a choice that you're making and to have God kind of rewrite that through this painting and her life of like, actually, even when it's not your choice, you have the choice to run into God.

[00:43:24] You might not have the choice to have to leave all those other things, but you always have the choice to run into God. And what he has when you do that is like unimaginable. You know? There's a reason why it's like that side of the painting is abstract because it's just, who knows what he has. It's just gonna be awesome.

[00:43:43] That's all we know. You know? Who knows what he has? And it feels scary. It feels scary. It might be more beautiful. I might know that it's more beautiful, but it feels scary to walk into the unknown. 

[00:43:52] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:43:52] Jessica Kuddes: Um, so just all of that kind of wrapped up together. It's meant so much to her in that journey. And I had no idea.

[00:43:58] I was just like painting something for people to look at when they study Philippians three. Anyways, I haven't actually ever given it to her, but it feels like I didn't know it was for her when I made it, but it really was when I give it to her. 

[00:44:10] Heather Winchell: Very cool. 

[00:44:11] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah, 

[00:44:12] Heather Winchell: very cool. I actually have the, well you do have prints of those because they're That's true.

[00:44:15] The 

[00:44:15] Jessica Kuddes: church did it for me. Right. I dunno how to do it. 

[00:44:17] Heather Winchell: Um, but I actually have that print in this studio, which. Fun fact, my little room that my husband also helped create for me Yeah. Is inspired by your little room. 

[00:44:28] Jessica Kuddes: Oh, fun. 

[00:44:28] Heather Winchell: Yeah. And I recently put the chair you're sitting in, in here as a way to be like, I need a cozy chair.

[00:44:34] Yeah, you do. Soak in a soak in the morning with my coffee. Yeah. So, yeah, 

[00:44:37] Jessica Kuddes: and I love that. Yeah. You're doing that. And the way your creativity comes out to bless people is. Totally different than mine. Yeah. You have a podcast and you know, whatever else. 

[00:44:46] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Although I am surrounded by a lot of art. Yeah.

[00:44:49] Like all over the walls stacked up in the bookcase, it's gonna find its way onto the wall. Yeah. So, well I do want to transition to some more just fun questions. Yeah. I like to end with fun questions, but before I do that, I just wanna name that I think something else I've really appreciated about your art.

[00:45:09] Is the way that I've seen you use it to bless your family and kind of like build family culture. 

[00:45:15] Jessica Kuddes: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:15] Heather Winchell: One of the things I love that you guys do is every year for Christmas, you make a new ornament for the tree. Yeah. Out of like clay, right? Yep. Air dry clay or something. Palmer Clay. Palmer Clay, yes. So Jess will take something meaningful from that year and then create an ornament and paint it and I mean, they're beautiful.

[00:45:33] They're so beautiful. What's your ornament this year, do you know? 

[00:45:36] Jessica Kuddes: Well, um. Some years it's been like, oh, we're really stretching. What the heck happened this year? Basically nothing. We just went to school and work and, um, but yeah, this year we took an amazing trip to see the redwoods in California. Cool. So it's definitely gonna be some kinda like super tall redwood tree.

[00:45:54] And then my oldest goes driver's permit this year, so it's probably gonna like a little car. It's just show how big the big, the tree is. Yeah. And then his little car, he is gonna start driving, you know? Yeah. So I think that's what it's gonna be. 

[00:46:06] Heather Winchell: I love it. Very cool, Jess. Okay, so for some fun questions.

[00:46:11] Yeah. What was the last thing that surprised you?

[00:46:19] Jessica Kuddes: This might sound funny, but it's always super a delightful surprise when my kids apologize without being prompted. 

[00:46:26] Heather Winchell: Oh my goodness. Yeah. And made it 

[00:46:27] Jessica Kuddes: so, yeah. The other day, you know, Seth and I were kind of, you know, in an argument with one of our kids and. Before we'd even, you know, we hadn't even come to like an agreement or resolution or anything, but that kiddo just out of nowhere was like, I'm so sorry, you know, for getting so angry about it and for, you know, yelling at you guys about it.

[00:46:49] And I was like. This is amazing. I just like immediately was like beaming and went over and like squeezed him. Aw. It's like so, such a great surprise. Like Yes. 

[00:46:58] Heather Winchell: That is a great surprise. Yeah. If you could become proficient in a new skill or hobby, what would it be and why? 

[00:47:06] Jessica Kuddes: Gardening. Mm. I feel that language of gardening.

[00:47:11] It feels like, man, there's gotta be some kind of like, you have to know how like the plants. Talk. And, and the soil. And the soil. And Joel's been talking about the soil. 

[00:47:21] Heather Winchell: We got this 

[00:47:22] Jessica Kuddes: gardening 

[00:47:23] Heather Winchell: book, and you should borrow this book. I should. He's talking about the soil. I'm like, babe, how do we have time to talk about soil?

[00:47:30] Yeah. You know? 

[00:47:31] Jessica Kuddes: And gosh, all the manual labor required to make soil good. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it would just be so cool to, to understand it better. Yeah. I feel like all the attempts I've made. So many of them fall flat. And I'm like, what happened? I don't even know. Was it too much water? Not enough water?

[00:47:49] Was there not enough sun? You know, is the soil weird? I what happened? I don't know. Yeah. So I don't even know how to fix it, you 

[00:47:55] Heather Winchell: know? Okay. And the reality is that like for most of humanity's existence, people subsisted on growing their own food. Yeah. And I would die. So how does this, how does this feel so hard?

[00:48:05] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:48:06] Heather Winchell: Yeah. If there's anybody out there that has some gardening skills. Reach out. Yeah. A garden Podcast. And podcast. And help us. Help us. Yes. Yeah. Okay. If you could only pick one song or album to paint to, what would it be and why?

[00:48:27] Jessica Kuddes: I'm a highly sensitive person, so I don't like a lot of noise. Okay. But I think it would probably have to be like something classical, um, moody in classical, maybe, you know? Just so that there's space. Like I can't have words. There needs to be, there needs to be space to like process whatever I'm processing, feel the feelings, you know, but something that kind of expresses like life is an epic journey, you know, kind of feeling.

[00:48:54] I don't know. 

[00:48:55] Heather Winchell: Okay. Are we talking like the Lord of the Ring soundtrack? 

[00:48:58] Jessica Kuddes: No. No. Okay. Not quite so. 

[00:49:01] Heather Winchell: Not quite so epic. Not quite so 

[00:49:03] Jessica Kuddes: epic. 

[00:49:03] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:49:05] Jessica Kuddes: You know, I don't know. One that I, I love listening to is, it's Zach Perlman's, like Greatest Hits. Okay. He's a famous violinist. He's awesome. Cool. He's like 80 now, but he's really cool.

[00:49:15] Heather Winchell: Cool. 

[00:49:16] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:49:17] Heather Winchell: Okay, now, yes. I would like to invite you to give your own shout out. Who would you want to tell? Thanks for doing that and why? 

[00:49:25] Jessica Kuddes: Okay. This does not fit your mold of, that's, I've listened to your podcast and all your other shoutouts, but. I have been thinking about and meditating on Colossians 1 24 through 27, which says, now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake and in my flesh, I'm filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body.

[00:49:46] That is the church of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me. For you to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations, but now revealed to his saints. So I think I would like to thank the people in my life who have suffered well with Jesus.

[00:50:09] Um, and let me enter into that because I have grown in my fuller knowledge of what Jesus did in watching people in their lives kind of reenact it and see the redemption and beauty that. Jesus accomplished. Mm-hmm. I'm just grateful for people being willing to not just, I don't know, um, ignore, medicate, whatever they're suffering, but really walk through it deeply in fellowship with Christ and letting me learn from an, from them in it.

[00:50:45] Mm-hmm. So. 

[00:50:47] Heather Winchell: Yeah, 

[00:50:48] Jessica Kuddes: I know. It's not a person you can have on your podcast. Exactly. But 

[00:50:51] Heather Winchell: no, it's great. I don't have everybody people shout out to on the podcast. Yeah. And I think that's great. 

[00:50:55] Jessica Kuddes: Yeah. 

[00:50:56] Heather Winchell: Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for, um, expanding the mold if there was a mold. Awesome. Well, Jess, this has been a really delightful conversation, um, and the first conversation to be had in my actual studio.

[00:51:10] I've had a few in my house, but not in the studio. So that feels really fun. So now I want to read to you the haiku that I've written. Yes. Just for you. I've been so excited about this. Yeah. Oh, good. Good. Jess. Thanks for doing that Storied art that holds out hope when it's hard to find. 

[00:51:32] Jessica Kuddes: Hmm. 

[00:51:33] Heather Winchell: That captures it so well.

[00:51:34] Yeah, that's what I want. Well, thank you for coming, friend.

[00:51:49] Thanks for doing that. Is presented to you by the apiary. A place for beholding and becoming. And thank you for joining us for today's episode. Before you go, I have a couple of invitations. If you found it meaningful, could I invite you to take two minutes to rate and review the show? I also invite you to help me create an upcoming episode of thanks for doing that by nominating someone or suggesting a topic.

[00:52:15] Let's link arms to call out the good and the beautiful that we see around us because I really believe that finding delight in our divided and difficult world could make all the difference.