Work That Energizes You vs. Work That Drains You with Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez

In this episode, Heather sits down with her friend and coach Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez to unpack the Working Genius framework—six distinct “gifts” that show up in every project and every team: Wonder, Invention, Discernment, Galvanizing, Enablement, and Tenacity. Together they explore:

• why some kinds of work leave you energized (and others leave you depleted),
• how the same genius can be celebrated in one culture and dismissed in another
• why timing matters (and how jumping in too early can crush momentum)
• how Heather’s “Evangelizing Innovator” dynamic plays out with her husband’s “Careful Implementer"
• and practical ways to apply this to marriage, teams, leadership, and parenting—without putting anyone in a box.

If you’ve ever thought, “Why is this so hard for me when it seems easy for someone else?”—this conversation will put language to your lived experience and help you pursue the work you’re wired for.

In this episode

• What the Working Genius framework is—and why it’s so usable in real life.  
• The 6 geniuses and the “airplane” metaphor for how projects move from start → finish.
• The difference between Geniuses / Competencies / Frustrations (and why skill ≠ joy).  
• Why order matters (and how discernment too early can shut down invention).
• How to build a team map and identify what your organization is missing.  
• Why some geniuses feel “flashy” and others are quietly essential.
• Parenting applications: noticing, naming, and celebrating gifts without labeling kids.
• A simple filter for deciding what deserves your yes (and what needs a no).

Resources mentioned

• Working Genius assessment + resources: Working Genius  
• Book: The 6 Types of Working Genius  
• Connect with Stephanie: Drawing From the Well Life Coaching  and stephanielgutierrez.com  
• Stephanie’s nonprofit: Footrock  

Catch more of the story @thanks.for.doing.that.podcast! 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Heather WInchell: Hey, there you are listening to thanks for doing that, a podcast celebrating people and ideas that make this world a better place. I am Heather Winchell, your host and chief enthusiast, and I'm on a mission to bring you conversations that encourage, inspire and delight. So stay tuned for another episode where we explore the things we do, the reasons we do them, and why it matters.

[00:00:43] Hey there. Welcome back to the podcast. I am excited about today's conversation because today I get to welcome my friend Stephanie Gutierrez. Stephanie is one of those people that effortlessly makes you smile. She's a fellow podcaster, a life and leadership coach, co-founder of the nonprofit Foot Rock, a spiritual director and a care manager for modern day missions.

[00:01:04] So in so many corners of her life, she's tending to people's stories and helping them live with purpose. And actually, I think this might be the third podcast conversation that Stephanie and I have had. Does that sound right to you, Steph? 

[00:01:18] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: I think so. I was trying to think of it before too, and maybe this might be the second, but we've just had other, so many other good conversations, other That 

[00:01:26] Heather WInchell: might be it.

[00:01:27] Yeah. So Andy and I came on modern day missions. Yeah. And you and Danny came on. It's not about the money. 

[00:01:34] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: That's right. That's you're absolutely right. 

[00:01:37] Heather WInchell: Yeah. So I think it is our third 

[00:01:39] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yes. 

[00:01:39] Heather WInchell: Which is fine. 

[00:01:40] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It's our third, 

[00:01:41] Heather WInchell: third on three different podcasts, which feels fun. 

[00:01:45] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It is. 

[00:01:45] Heather WInchell: Yeah, so there's so many things we could speak to and there's things we've already spoken to in other spaces, but today we get to talk about something that we're both pretty excited about, which is the working genius.

[00:01:57] And for those that don't know, it's a framework that helps you understand how you naturally show up to the work that you're called to do. What energizes you, what drains you, and why certain things just feel right. I'm not gonna say too much right now because I think Stephanie and I will get into it in the episode, but I really think that this is going to be a lot of fun for you and for us, listener.

[00:02:19] This is a conversation that encourages us to pay attention to who we are, how we're wired, and why that really does matter. Stephanie, thank you so much for joining me again today on the podcast. I'd love to kick this conversation off with some insight into what life looks like for you right now. 

[00:02:37] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Well, thanks for asking Heather, and yeah, life looks great.

[00:02:41] I mean, I'm with you here on the podcast. Woo woo. So, hey, yes, you, and you mentioned it in the bio, all the things. I just got my hands in a lot of pots, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. I feel blessed to get to do many things that I love. 

[00:02:53] Heather WInchell: Okay. Are you sorting through those different hats on any given day, or would you say that you have kind of a rhythm to what those spaces look like for you?

[00:03:02] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: I do, I do. I'm doing, um, coaching and spiritual direction. So I'm working with clients a couple days a week and then also doing other modern day work, working with missionaries a few times a week as well. And then my husband and I, yeah, we run a non-profit, so we're doing retreats for Spanish speaking pastors and missionaries, and then speaking, doing marriage conferences and retreats and all kinds of, all kinds of stuff.

[00:03:25] Mm-hmm. So, yes, I love what I get to do, but there is a rhythm to it. 

[00:03:28] Heather WInchell: Alright, so before we jump into frameworks and assessments, I just, I'd like to start with a little bit about what first drew you into the work of understanding people and how they're wired, because that's kind of something that throughout the spaces, the pots that you're part of that's kind of similar.

[00:03:45] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: I've been fascinated in how people work golf for as long as I can remember. I'm fascinated in how I work, how other people work, um, how relationships interact with one another. Like, and I, I wonder if part of it is my personality, my wiring. So if you, if you're a strength finders person, I'm high in empathy, harmony, and connectedness.

[00:04:04] Those are my top five. And developers one as well. And positivity, if you're an Enneagram person, I'm a nine. So I'm all about how people interact with one another. And working genius is such a cool framework because it's not a personality assessment, although I love those. I take all the ones that are available pretty much.

[00:04:26] But I like this one because of its simplicity and it doesn't put you in a box and it doesn't give you a title. It just explains the way that you work. So I think different personality assessments, um, or frameworks like this are helpful in different environments. This one is particularly helpful in the work settings.

[00:04:44] No one gives any pushback on it. Sometimes if you'll do a personality assessment, people can feel frustrated with it. Like, oh my gosh, stop labeling me, or, I don't like this one. I have yet to ever experience pushback on this one because of how simple it is. Easy to understand and non labeling. It is. And Heather, you and I were talking for a minute before we got started and you were even saying how much has impacted your marriage?

[00:05:07] And I would agree as well. So even though it's first and foremost has been designed for a workplace setting, I think it is helpful in friendships, in relationships and marriage. Um, in understanding yourself. 

[00:05:19] Heather WInchell: Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine that any space where you are working as part of a team or within a group towards something together, that it probably comes into play with just understanding the reason people approach things the way that they do.

[00:05:33] So where did you first experience working genius? What was your first exposure to that? And did you have your own aha moment, a moment where something really clicked for you? 

[00:05:44] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: So I was trying to think when I first encountered working Genius, and I honestly can't remember. I don't have the strongest memory in the world.

[00:05:50] I just know that at one point I read it, I loved it. And then I did end up going through the certification process and that I have a date on since there's a date on my certificate. And that was this past year. And uh, I think, yeah, that Aha moment was probably in thinking through how it affects me and then how it affects my husband.

[00:06:09] So interestingly, first in that marriage space, because what do you do when you take an assessment? You immediately, first of all, think how it applies to you and how it applies to the people closest around you. And so when I read what my two geniuses were, one of mine, I'll give a little hint, is not very well celebrated or well recognized.

[00:06:28] You wouldn't think of it as a genius. And I was like, oh my gosh, someone is celebrating this kind of weird thing that I do. And so that was, it was pretty great. 

[00:06:38] Heather WInchell: Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. Maybe let's just take a moment to kind of dive into what the working genius is so that we can start to put hooks for the listener to hang their understanding on.

[00:06:49] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Absolutely. So we don't talk and they're wondering like, what are they saying? 

[00:06:52] Heather WInchell: Yeah. 

[00:06:53] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: So dear listeners, um, I'm gonna give you six working geniuses and these are basically the six ways that we do work. And so they're not necessarily like, um, a skill or an ability because a skill is something that you can develop.

[00:07:11] And sure you can develop all of these, but these are something that are kind of inborn. 'cause you can get good at something that is not necessarily a genius. So as I read this six, you might think, well I have all of these geniuses 'cause I'm great in all of these things. That's fantastic. But two of them, you just do and you have, without thinking about it, they're the types of work that put a smile on your face and then they're gonna be two that.

[00:07:35] You know, they give you some energy and joy on occasion, but if you did 'em on a regular basis, they would burn you out. And then two of them you just probably avoid because they're drainers. Think of 'em as gainers and drainers in terms of energy. So your geniuses are the ones that give you energy and joy and a sense of fulfillment.

[00:07:53] And so if you think of this, these six geniuses kind of, uh, using the analogy of like an airplane. So let's think about an airplane that's getting ready to land. Well, that would be any type of project that you have to do. Whether it's a project in your home, you and your spouse are working to, I don't know, remodel the bathroom or a project at work.

[00:08:12] Anything, any type of work that you need to do, things need to happen for that to begin. And then for them to, to finish, to put a bow on it. And so the very first genius that gets the whole process going is called Wonder. And people with the genius of wonder, they, they are just curious. They love to ask questions, to speculate.

[00:08:33] Uh, they say, you know, why are things the way they are? I wonder if this is actually meeting the needs of the people we serve. You know, let's get to the heart of this. Is this actually it? Is this actually what we're doing? They ask these big kind of nebulous questions that get to the heart of the issue.

[00:08:49] Hmm. In this space, they're not doing anything. They're not accomplishing anything. They're not even coming up with ideas. They're just asking questions. And that's the thing that gets the plane to begin to descend. And then there's another genius that responds to these questions, and that is the genius of invention.

[00:09:10] Invention is exactly what it sounds like. These are the ideators. They just come in and have so many good ideas and they say, oh my gosh, you're right. So if we're trying to get the heart, the heart of this, what if it's this? And what if it's that? What if it's this? And they just come up with all kinds of ideas and, uh, a good team will let a person like this run with those ideas for a while, because what comes next after that?

[00:09:35] So those first two are in what's called the ideation stage, because nothing's really happened yet. Mm-hmm. We're thinking, we're wondering where we have ideas, but once we descend a little bit farther down, we get to the activation stage, things begin to happen. And then the very important genius of discernment comes in.

[00:09:54] Discernment starts to ask the questions, saying things like, so I love that idea. Have you thought about the implications of that? That is such a cool thought. Um, but is that store actually open on Tuesdays? I think they might be closed. They'll start to look for all the ways that we can kind of, uh, whittle that down to an actual doable idea.

[00:10:13] Now, if discernment comes in too soon, they'll shut down invention. We gotta let them just run for a while. But when, when it's the appropriate time, you get in what's called the ID loop and discernment will say, so I'm not sure about this, but what if we tweaked it like this? And then invention will say, yes, okay, we could do that.

[00:10:28] And you go back and forth until between those two, you get an viable idea. Then we move down a little bit closer to the ground and we bring in the galvanizer's. Heather, you're a galvanizer, right? Totally. 

[00:10:40] Heather WInchell: Absolutely. 

[00:10:41] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yep. Okay, then I'm gonna ask you after this to share about what that's like for you for a second.

[00:10:45] But galvanizer are fun. This is a very recognizable genius. People know galvanizes because they are fun and sparkly and charismatic, and they bring you together and all of a sudden you find yourself signing up for a project and you don't even know what happened. But they were so much fun. They pulled you on board.

[00:11:00] They cast vision, they keep vision in front of people. They pull that team together and they get the ball moving. Heather, I'm gonna pause for a second. As a galvanizer. What do you wanna throw in there? 

[00:11:12] Heather WInchell: Yes. I, uh, when I first experienced, or when I first engaged this before even. You know, putting any pen to paper, taking any kind of test or, I don't even know if it's a test.

[00:11:24] I don't remember what the thing is, but 

[00:11:26] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: yeah, there's an assessment you can take. 

[00:11:27] Heather WInchell: Yeah. Before ever going into that, I knew that I was a galvanizer. I knew that, that, because I'm passionate about getting people behind a vision and very choosy about the vision that I choose to get behind. But if I'm behind it, I'm just like solidly behind it, you know?

[00:11:43] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Absolutely. You guys are the ones that get people moving, get them outta their comfort zone and get that ball actually rolling and in motion. And so after we've got our galvanizes, we move down into the implementation stage, and this is where real work starts happening. So we've moved even, even beyond the bringing people together.

[00:12:01] We are putting pen to paper. And so enablement is the genius that responds so well to Galvanizer's because enablement lifts up their hand and says, I would love to help. Yes, let's do this. They make things happen. Um, they can flex to whatever the situation calls for. They're like, okay, let me pick that up.

[00:12:19] Let me put a list together. They are doers and enablement. I don't think they always recognize themselves as having as this being a genius as well. They just think, well, I just help people. Well, that's a massive genius. We could not get anything done right without enablement. So they're, um, really moving that ball forward.

[00:12:36] And then the last and final genius comes in, which is tenacity. And these are the people who, um, respond well to tasks, respond well to, I would say putting the bow on things, dotting the i's, crossing the T's, making sure that it, it is in agreement with all the things that we set up in the beginning.

[00:12:55] Sometimes these are the bean counters and the finance people and the details, and the people who are setting the table who make sure the fork and the knife are pointing in the right direction. So it can look like a thousand different things. But these people are highly detailed and without them we would not have a product that is excellent.

[00:13:12] They make sure it's coming out as it's supposed to. And with them, we land the plane. 

[00:13:17] Heather WInchell: So there is a quick overview of the six. Yeah. Thank you. That is excellent. I'm laughing because as you're explaining these, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is why that's an area of frustration for me. Or you know. And I know, I know with the working genius there is language to it, right?

[00:13:33] Geniuses, competencies, and frustrations. Do you wanna explain that really quick? 

[00:13:38] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: So, yes, within each of these, there are two that are your geniuses, two that are your competencies, and two that are your frustrations. So again, your geniuses are what give you joy and energy and a sense of purpose. They are fun.

[00:13:50] Um, they're your energy gainers. We'd say in coaching language, uh, your competencies are the ones that sometimes are fun to do, and, but if you did 'em on a regular basis all the time, they would, they would drain you out. And then your frustrations are the ones that you just tend to avoid. They just, when you do them, you are just blitzed out of your mind when you're done.

[00:14:09] I mean, it's not that you can't, again, let's go back to skill. Some people are highly skilled at their frustrations, but if you're thinking about this in a personal nature about your job, um, once you're able to identify these, if you're working in a job where you're primarily using your competencies or your frustrations, you're gonna be frustrated with your job.

[00:14:26] You're gonna wish you could. Change. And so the idea is that we find ourselves in roles where we're working primarily out of our geniuses if possible. It doesn't mean we don't do the other four things, of course we do. But um, hopefully those two are the ones that are driving the work that we do. 

[00:14:40] Heather WInchell: Right.

[00:14:41] Yeah. And it's, it's so interesting because, you know, as we said, I have really seen a lot of this applied in marriage right now. And it's so funny because when my husband and I got married, the pastor that married us knew me pretty well and I would say, knew Joel pretty well. And he said, Heather, you are the sales and Joel, you are the anchor.

[00:14:59] And so that's kind of, that's kind of a picture that we've had our whole marriage and understanding some of the, some of the ways that we ground each other or, you know, get each other into action, things like that. But I think it's really been in a, in this season, you know, we have four children, ages four to 12.

[00:15:16] We're both working to some extent outside the home trying to really just kind of. Launch our people more and more into the world. You know, just really, really in that solid stage of head down, caring for the family, things like that. And it's, and in this season we've had the working genius come in and give just a little bit more definition to that sales and anchor picture.

[00:15:39] So, okay, so I'm going to share with you what our working geniuses are. Okay? 

[00:15:44] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yes. 

[00:15:44] Heather WInchell: So, and they, they make so much sense with that, with that, um, picture that he gave us. So I am what is called the evangelizing Innovator. I'm high I and High G. Those are my geniuses. So I have a lot of ideas and I get really excited about them.

[00:16:02] And my husband is the careful implementer. He is w and t, so Wonder and Tenacity, and he and I, and I think we both have competencies and discernment, but. But I think that a lot of our conversations really live, not necessarily in those middle worlds, but in the like geniuses. So I have a lot of ideas and I'm so excited to see them happen yesterday.

[00:16:28] And I just have so much vision for what it would do for us if we actually did all of them. Um, and maybe have like a high need to get a better grasp on reality of what's possible. Whereas my husband is very committed to following through, finishing things, getting it done. So as you can imagine, that creates a an interesting tension and dynamic for us sometimes.

[00:16:54] And definitely, definitely puts more words to that sales and anchor picture for sure. So telling you that for sure, what are your first thoughts as somebody that coaches in this? 

[00:17:02] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Well, I wanna ask, what are some of the primary conflicts that you guys have experienced having those? 

[00:17:09] Heather WInchell: Oh, man. Okay. So I would say that it, it tends to be around things that like, like ideas for something fun, like a vacation that our family could do like ideas for, or even even on a specific, you know, we've decided, hey, we're going to go to San Diego and maybe I have like 15 things that I want us to try to do.

[00:17:32] And Joel's sitting over here like, there's no way we're going to be able to do all those things. Or if we try to do all of those things, we are going to be fried. This is not going to be fun. But I'm thinking, no, think about this and how much fun would this be? And what if we could do this? And so that's kind of one of the dynamics.

[00:17:48] I would say. Another one's probably house projects. I, I have an idea probably every week for a room that we could paint or, um. You know, something new that we could do. And I think that it's just like really gratifying for me even to have the ideas. But it's almost interesting because if Joel, if Joel allows me to just keep talking about them, then I've just kind of decided they're going to happen and I'm already trying to galvanize the family to it.

[00:18:13] Right. So those are just a couple of things that come to mind. 

[00:18:16] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: How do you see Joel using his geniuses in some of the things that you work on together? 

[00:18:21] Heather WInchell: Yeah. I think one of the most beautiful things I've seen is that we, my kids know that mom has a lot of fun ideas for things that we could do as a family, but Joel is really the one that blesses our family by actually making them happen.

[00:18:36] So, for example, we have something called the Wall of Wonder in our house. It's like a physical space that anything that brings awe, delight, beauty, or gratitude, we take note of it and we stick it up on that. On that, it's kind of like a glorified bulletin board. And every month we reset that. And at a point last year or earlier this year, I said, Hey, why am I the only person that's like putting anything up here?

[00:19:02] And Joel was like, well, it's because you don't have any like pins or paper laid out for the kids. They'd have to like think to go find that, and then they'd have to come and like put it on there. And so just his thinking through. What is actually going to make something happen? What's going to ground something so other people can get their hands around it.

[00:19:21] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yeah. So you mentioned you weren't surprised at all by your geniuses when you read them. Do you think Jill was surprised by either of his? 

[00:19:29] Heather WInchell: I think he was probably deeply affirmed. 

[00:19:32] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Which one do you think affirmed in the most? 

[00:19:34] Heather WInchell: I would say I, I wonder, I wonder if seeing the value of tenacity, because I think that there's some geniuses that people might think, oh, that's maybe kind of a sexier genius like wonder or something like that.

[00:19:47] Like actually when I did the workshop I did on Working Genius, it was kind of a thing where everybody kind of wanted wonder, which is interesting. I don't know if you've seen that. It's kind of like 

[00:19:56] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Interesting. That's unusual. Yeah. 

[00:19:58] Heather WInchell: And with, it's kind of like with StrengthsFinder when I did that, several people really wanted Woo, or were hopeful that that would be something that like came out, think everybody wants.

[00:20:08] Woo. Yeah. Um, yeah. So. But I think, I think tenacity. I think that there's just this strength in that genius. Such a gift, such a blessing. 

[00:20:22] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It really is. And you bring up an interesting point, and we alluded to it a little bit earlier, that some, uh, geniuses are more celebrated than others. And I love that you're showing value to Joel or helping him see the value in his geniuses, Heather, because you've got the two flashiest most fun ones 

[00:20:38] Heather WInchell: Oh, really?

[00:20:38] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: That are most easily Oh yeah. They're most easily recognizable and they're most often celebrated because who doesn't think that an, an inventor who's spouting off ideas left and right. Like for the most part, that's, unless somebody has crazy ideas, you know, I guess that could be different. But in, in most spaces, we really tend to value people with a lot of ideas when they're good ideas.

[00:21:00] Then galvanizer just tend to be they, they often have woo, they tend to be that more charismatic personality. And so it's really cool to me listening to you how much you're celebrating Joel as having geniuses that are less celebrated or flashy. And sometimes, it's interesting what you said about wonder 'cause wonder isn't often as noticed or as celebrated.

[00:21:22] That's actually, I have wonder, it's one of mine, and I don't think it's traditionally thought of as a genius 'cause it's like, oh, these are people who just like live in the clouds and ask lots of questions and they're not really doing anything. And so. What what it makes me wonder is, oh my gosh, look at I'm doing it again.

[00:21:38] That was, that was not supposed to be a joke, but this is how I think. Um, but it makes me think about the environments that those are being asked in or thought about. So if you are in an environment that highly values that type of philosophical thinking or deep thinking, then yes, it's going to be celebrated.

[00:21:57] But if you are in an environment that's all about production, production, production, let's get things done. Then you look at somebody like Wonder and you go, Ooh, they don't do anything. What is their actual job? Mm. Not realizing that without them we'd be speeding ahead. In the wrong direction. Wonder makes sure we're going in the right direction.

[00:22:18] Wonder makes sure that the vision, the arrow is pointed where it should be, that it's meeting the needs of the people. I mean, it doesn't do you any good if you, if you think about companies over time that have been heading in a particular direction, we're doing so well. You think about, maybe even like Kodak maybe would be a good example where they were, who beat Kodak, like in terms of pictures and photography and everything, they were king.

[00:22:44] But when digital came out, they did not react quickly enough. Mm. And so they went from being a leader to somebody who was not. And so it makes me think in situations like that, you need somebody like wonder who's kinda looking ahead and saying, Hey, is, is this where we're going? Is this what people actually need?

[00:23:01] Should we be adjusting as well? It doesn't mean every question. They're not looking to ask, answer those questions. They're looking to. Ask the questions, the answer is not what's important, and then that's where you know. Invention comes in and they're like, ideas. 

[00:23:16] Heather WInchell: Yeah. Well, 

[00:23:17] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: but yeah, tenacity's huge. It's, it's such a, sometimes in highly innovative and inventive type organizations, tenacity can get thrown under the bus.

[00:23:27] Mm-hmm. You know, same with discernment. They're like, oh, discernment. You're just a wet blanket. And I have discernment too. So, you know, we're like, they're the devil's advocate who come in. They're like, be quiet, you're spoiling all the fun. Quit asking all the questions. My idea is amazing and I wanna do it.

[00:23:41] Mm. And then, you know, you get tenacity come in and it's like, oh my gosh, what's with all the details? So I think an important thing in all of this as well is remembering the order. So the order is actually important, right? We talk about it in terms of an airplane, because if these are done out of order, if you have tenacity and you're jumping in, while we're still in the ideation stage, thinking about things.

[00:24:02] It is gonna be too soon. And that will be annoying. But guess what else is annoying? When wonder and, and invention are coming up with ideas, when the product has already gone to production and it's about to land, it's like, I'm so sorry, your time for that is, is over and done. So it's important for organizations or even for couples in a marriage or any setting to be like, Hey, what, what stage of work are we in right now?

[00:24:27] Hmm. 'cause we might be, we might be past that. 

[00:24:29] Heather WInchell: That is so helpful. Just that reminder that there's, there's a rhythm to the way you kind of think through these things is really helpful because I think that it probably does whatever context this is coming out in, whether it be work or friends or family, if people jump in too soon with, you know, their discernment or all of the details, then, then it can really just kind of crush something from ever.

[00:24:56] Kind of like blossoming or, you know, getting some momentum to it. But also, Stephanie, when you said that when you try to ideate too late in the game, I, I'm thinking of actual experiences I've had where, you know, my team and I have worked towards something in the last minute. I have this other idea and I really wanna see it happen.

[00:25:17] But it's actually, and, and maybe it would've been a great idea, you know, three months ago, but at that time it really just becomes a burden. Yeah, 

[00:25:27] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: you're absolutely right. Well, and that was why I had really, I focused on that with the discernment and invention piece earlier because, so Danny, my husband has invention and I have discernment.

[00:25:38] And I, when I learned this model, I'm like, how many times has he come to me bursting with ideas? And I barely took, let him take a breath before I was like, red penning the ideas and editing in them and making them better. Or, you know, everything from projects to, you know, him writing an article or a a Sunday morning message back when we used to preach.

[00:26:01] And I would start editing it before I'd even heard the heart of the message. Mm. This was actually instrumental for us in our relationship, for me to be able to give him space to breathe and ask questions. And that's where it's helpful being a coach. I'm like, okay, staff, this is coach mode time. This is not discernment time because what does a coach do?

[00:26:23] A coach asks questions and helps pull things out of you. Mm-hmm. Rather than begins to shape that. That's not time. In a coaching session, you might start with the shaping, again, using questions toward the end of the session, but you have a whole, uh, chunk of time that's pure on exploration, discovery. So it's been really, really good for our marriage.

[00:26:44] It's been great for the teams that we're on. I love doing this with teams. I was doing it with a team the other month and, um. This is a blast to do with teams. Anything from a work team to this could be, uh, if you're in a church setting and you're in a, a small group that's planning a party to, I mean, anything really, or in a, in a marriage setting to be able to make what's called a team map.

[00:27:06] And that's where you map out what your. Geniuses are and what your frustrations, frustrations are, and you can see on your team where those fall. Mm-hmm. And remember we just talked a second ago about how some teams are not really kind to certain geniuses. Well notice, look at your team map. And if a lot of people have frustration in wonder, well then that's why they aren't loving your, your questions.

[00:27:32] And so, uh, a good team will make sure they've got somebody representing each genius. You might say, well, in a marriage, how does that work? Or in a, a friend group, right? Well, you find what you don't have, or there are times where you have to just go, okay, we gotta buckle into our competencies for a little bit because this just has to get done.

[00:27:52] For an example. So Danny and I run a nonprofit together, and our geniuses are, I have wonder, he has invention, I have discernment, and he has enablement. So we're missing in our top two, galvanizing and tenacity. Now, thankfully, Danny and I both have that in our competencies, and Danny developed that as a skill highly in the work that he did for years and years and years.

[00:28:15] It's his third and in working genius, you know, those of us in the working genius space, um, there's a term, they call it the third genius, and it means typically you're very, you can be very, very good at it and you can do it a little bit longer than you normally would. With your other competencies, but you still can't do it a hundred percent of the time.

[00:28:33] So when we need to tap into galvanizing between the two of us, we can patch up some really good galvanizing and, and make that happen. Uh, tenacity. Ooh, that's a tough one for us. So this is practically how that, how that plays out. Okay. So we both don't have it. It's a frustration. I especially get frustrated in tenacity that is physical work.

[00:28:55] Hmm. That might be like. Let's say like cleaning the bathroom, I'll do it like 80%. I don't wanna do the last 20%. And it's really hard, like physical tasks that last 20% is just like, ah, like I wanna wash the dishes but not dry them. Mm-hmm. You know, that type of a thing. Right. For him it's technological or like forms or paperwork or logging or finances.

[00:29:17] I don't mind that as much. It's, it's less of a frustration. So we just split up the tenacity and I say, so he does a lot of the physical things and I do a lot of the office form, government type things. And so we each take what we hate least and that's how we've always been in our marriage because there are just things there are gonna be where you're like, no.

[00:29:41] And you're like, who hates it? Who hates it the most? Okay, then I'll do it. 

[00:29:45] Heather WInchell: Um, that is really helpful, Stephanie. 'cause I, I think I've, I've maybe kept this knowledge in a very, I. Cerebral space of just kind of trying to understand my, my own actions or the actions of others, but actually assigning tasks and seeing where those tasks fit.

[00:30:02] And then, like you said, divvying it up to kind of, um, not deplete both of you. That's super helpful. 

[00:30:10] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Well, it, it really is and it's been instrumental and you, you sometimes get to the point where you do need outside help, so it's good to be aware of that. If it's small scale stuff, usually you can divvy it out and just make it happen and muscle through together.

[00:30:23] But, you know, for an example, um, with our nonprofit, we, you know, do retreats for Spanish speaking pastors and missionaries, and we typically do those in smaller scales, anywhere from six to 16 people. But we did just do a retreat in Argentina a couple months ago. Actually last month, and that was for 18 couples, so it was 36 people.

[00:30:42] Wow. And it was in another country. And we don't usually do those, but we just felt in our heart to do it and people wanted us to do it. So there was the need. It was all there. And we, we just knew. And so Danny and I looked at each other and we said. There's no way we can do this without help. We need someone with that, you know, tenacity piece and enablement on the ground there.

[00:31:04] 'cause even though Danny has enablement, there's only so much he can do from the US when in another country. And so we specifically identified someone we knew on the ground who had the skillset that we needed to be able to help make that event happen. And we built it into our budget for the retreat to be able to pay her to help with that.

[00:31:22] And uh, so there are times, um, if it's in marriage, what are you, what are you missing? What is one thing that just never seems to get done because it's in a frustration. Do you need to outsource that or do you need to find a different strategy to be able to get that done? Um, if it's a company, when you make a team map as you're looking for your next hire.

[00:31:43] Who do you need to hire next? Which, what's missing? Do you need to do some rearranging? Do you have somebody who is working in their working frustration? Do you have them in a finance role where they're having to do a bunch of spreadsheets, but they're actually these really charismatic people who should be galvanizing and pulling the team together?

[00:32:00] So it's helpful to do those readjustments, um, and also think about where, where do we need to grow? What are the holes? What are we missing to make our team stronger? Because you can't just say, well, I could say Dan and I, we've got, we've got four of 'em. That's, that's enough. No, all six need to happen.

[00:32:14] Heather WInchell: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:14] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: All six are part of any type of work. So we have to be strategic about the things that we don't have. 

[00:32:20] Heather WInchell: You know, we've kind of spoken to the team environment, we've spoken to marriage. I'm curious if there's any applications to parenting, if there's any way you could apply or you've seen in your own parenting or those that you've coached, how this can be helpful in that way.

[00:32:34] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: I think whenever there's an opportunity to identify gifts, uh, or natural abilities, it's awesome as a parent because then you get to call that out of them. And so, yes, certainly with your kids, I think this is something that you can start to notice because again, it's inborn, it's natural, it's something you do.

[00:32:53] So notice do you have a child who's asking lots of questions. Mm-hmm. Now, this isn't always evident. So for example, I have wonder, I didn't do any of this as a kid because I was just, I was a people pleaser and so I just wanted to conform to the people around me. So all of my curiosity I kept inside. So you won't always be able to absorb these in kids, but, um, look to provide an environment where all six of these are able.

[00:33:16] You know, to come out so that your kids can flourish in them. So notice are they asking questions? Are they curious? Do they, they have their head in the clouds? Uh, do they tend to think a lot more than they do? Maybe wonder is a place to start. Uh, are they, do they have ideas? Are these the kids who are, you know, wanting to do a lemonade stand or write a book or sing a song, or, I know a couple kids like this and it's, it's fun, fun to be able to pull this out of them.

[00:33:46] Your little galvanizer, are they pulling the kids together, uh, to all play something? Are they inviting people over to their house? Are they the ones who are planning the birthday parties as they get older? Uh, notice that discernment. Are these the kids who sometimes are noticing what's wrong with everything, you know?

[00:34:02] Yeah. And they may say it or they may not say it, but you can kind of notice that, that nature in them as well. And in all of these. Tell them what's good about it. Mm. If you've got like a little discernment kid who's just poking holes and let's say you have invention and you got a discernment kid and they're just constantly like, it feels like they're criticizing you get curious and wonder if there's something underneath this.

[00:34:26] Mm. Did they just see the world with a red pen in their hand? 

[00:34:28] Heather WInchell: Right. 

[00:34:29] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: And so helping them learn how to steward that well, same with enablement and tenacity with all of these, help them learn to use it well so that they aren't driving people crazy with their geniuses, but they're learning through your mentorship as a parent, how to use them appropriately and how to value that as a gift that they have.

[00:34:50] Heather WInchell: Yeah. It strikes me that this could also just be really helpful as people are thinking of themselves as parents. And I love that you've a couple of times referenced that these are, these are gifts. There's something to celebrate. And I do think that, um. That God in his design of us and, and the individuals that we are delights in the unique giftings, in the unique ways that we show up to the world.

[00:35:18] And I think there's purpose in that, right? It, it bears out in the good work that we're given to do in the greater story. So I, I just, I think there's so much delight and celebration around that. And how often do we see something we really appreciate in others and then somehow feel, um, like we've missed something or we're not doing something as we should or, or something like that.

[00:35:41] Like I have a friend that, you know, when we had littles, she was always commenting on how I would do like art projects with my kids, where I was always thinking of ideas to, to, to get them to create something. And I think that people that don't have ideation might look at that thinking, oh, I should be coming up with all of these ideas.

[00:36:02] But actually no, like the strengths you've been given. Are intentional for the family you've been given. And so I think that really celebrating all of the strengths, like you said, and seeing them as a gift can even help us in our parenting to be more secure and settled in the way we show up and what we bring instead of kind of losing sight of that in light of what we don't do or what we don't bring.

[00:36:26] Does that make sense? 

[00:36:27] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Oh, totally. I mean, I'm thinking right now, 'cause enablement is my third from the bottom, so it's a competency but it's not real high for me. And I remember I had a friend growing up and I look back and she so had enablement, didn't have the language for it, you know, back then, but she just was always offering to help with things.

[00:36:44] You know, we were leading a lot of ministry at church, working as pastors and she just would often offer to take one of my daughters who was best friends with her daughter. And I remember I would feel guilty 'cause I was not having her daughter over as much. And she looked at me once and she goes, Hey, I just want you to know.

[00:37:03] I don't want you ever to feel bad about this. This is something I love doing. She goes, you helped me in so many other ways. She goes, you're such a good listener. When I, when I wanna talk about something, you listen and I get to share my heart with you, and you are, are, are so helpful to me in that way.

[00:37:18] This is the way that I love to help, so will you just let me do it? And that, that marked me like very profoundly. And I, I think it is so good to be able to not get down on ourselves for the things that we don't have and, uh, be able to celebrate those things in other people. Like you said, Heather. And I think I, so I do wanna say one caveat with kids, um, that came to mind as you were talking.

[00:37:39] Uh, sometimes I think we can project on kids what we think they have and what we think, uh, we, we want them to have. Maybe when, maybe it's not necessarily a genius, it's just a developed skill. Like, I'm pretty sure every parent would love their child to have enablement. Wouldn't we all love to have kids who are just helping all of the time and raising their hand?

[00:37:59] And yes, mother, father, what can I do for you today? And so if we are gonna, if we were to label our kids with that, uh, then all of a sudden they grow up thinking, oh my gosh, my mom and dad love me because, hmm, I do this for them, or I am this way. Or maybe, you know, it's invention. Look at how creative my child is when it's not something that's necessarily inborn.

[00:38:22] It's just something that's been developed as a part of the family structure they're in. So celebrate them, but be careful to not decide for them what these six things are. Just notice and celebrate them for all six things that you see them do. And as they get older, they'll more and more and more start to lean in.

[00:38:44] But I'll give you an example that I heard of even as an adult. Um, 'cause people can get confused as they're trying to figure out what they have. Like there was this gal and she was in the military. And so she took this test right after coming outta the military, and shockingly, she scored, you know, in her geniuses as having enablement and tenacity.

[00:39:04] Well, hello. That's the army, right? You know, that's what you do in the military. You are fulfilling the orders of other people, and you're doing them with excellence. Well, she realized down the road that those were things she'd gotten. Incredibly good at, and it was, she was praised for it all the time, but it wasn't really what brought, you know, brought her joy.

[00:39:23] Or sometimes, um, like working Genius has an assessment specifically for students. 'cause they recognize a lot of students when they take this will score high in tenacity because there is this homework and, and tests and it, your environment can pull one of these out of you a bit more. But that does not mean that, that's the thing that gives you joy and energy.

[00:39:43] So always important to, to think about what's the environment that I'm in. Danny even wondered if he was galvanizing for a while because when he was a pastor for all those years leading small groups and I mean, he did so many things that required him to galvanize and because it's his third, he did it very well.

[00:39:59] There, it brought a lot of joy and energy. It wasn't overly draining just a little bit sometimes. And so he might've had he taken this test 10 years ago, he probably would've thought galvanizing was in his top two. So you gotta take a step back mm-hmm. In all of these. Um, so whether we're thinking about our kids and the stage of life they're in or hours, uh, yeah.

[00:40:18] I added a little bit more to what I was originally going to say, but I wanna, I do want us to, going back to what I said, I wanna be careful with kids that we don't put them in boxes. Right. Or label them. We allow them to grow. 

[00:40:28] Heather WInchell: Yeah. And in general, I think like with any kind of tool that you apply for better understanding of yourself or others, like anytime it becomes this identity or box, it's, it's probably like a slightly off.

[00:40:41] Right? I think the real help comes in kind of what you were just speaking to. Just becoming more aware of like, does this energize me? Or how, how does this affect me? And how am I able to show up? Like. You know, I'm thinking of what you said about how it can look like you're operating in a certain competency or genius, but in reality you're just able to do it because of your environment.

[00:41:03] And I'm thinking of some, some previous positions I've held in a company that I worked for, and they were positions that had responsibility and were in a, had a measure of leadership. And so I think that because of wanting to lead the team, well, I showed up more in some of the areas that, that actually I think are frustrations.

[00:41:22] Uh, but I did that because I, I didn't wanna let the team down. But honestly, Stephanie in that season now I can see, I think I got sick every weekend or like at the end of every week. I like felt sick, like, oh, I think I have a cold, or I'm coming down with something. And really, I think it was just that I was depleted.

[00:41:41] I think that I was working in a frustration every week and then kind of recovering through the weekend. You know what I'm saying? So I think the real power and why I wanted to talk about this tool is that. I really think that there's so much intentionality in our design, the way we show up to the world, the way we uniquely show up to the world.

[00:42:01] And this is just one way of understanding that not just to have a label or to, you know, to have a, I don't know, even a rigid structure of thinking through, you know, how to work on a team, but to the end of really like blossoming in the actual life and personality and strengths and giftings you've been given.

[00:42:22] And so I just, yeah, I love that so much of our conversation has really pointed to that. I'm curious if you'd wanna add anything to what I just said. 

[00:42:33] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Oh, no, I, I couldn't agree more. 

[00:42:35] Heather WInchell: And I think, you know, just to what I was just saying about how it really helps you learn about yourself, it really helps you thrive in who God made you to be.

[00:42:43] I think I've been spending a lot of time this past year. Thinking through how do I give my yes to the things that I'm meant to give my yes to? Because honestly, as an ideas person and as a galvanizer, Stephanie, I, I can like, I can get excited about all kinds of things. I mean, even my podcast is kind of an indicator of that.

[00:43:03] Like I'm talking to you about working genius. I spoke to somebody else about working as a carpenter in a home. You know, I've wide variety of things, like genuinely very excited about many, many things and I'm a finite person and I can't give my yes to everything. And that actually going back to what has been places of like tension and conflict, that's probably one of the biggest consistent things is that I wanna give my yes to so much more that I or my family can sustain.

[00:43:34] I'm curious, how has learning about this helped you know where to give your yes or your no. 

[00:43:42] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: That is a great question because that's when I've been thinking just a lot about lately. I think when you really start to know who you are and what brings you joy and energy, it helps you to evaluate and look at life and what you're doing and think, is this what I wanna continue to be doing and where do I wanna head?

[00:44:02] And there are seasons where we are where you just have to do things that are maybe not your favorite, right? But it's always important to be thinking ahead. What do I wanna grow into? So I mean, when we started this podcast, you know, you mentioned all the things I'm doing, and it is a lot. I feel like I've got my hands in so many different pots right now, and I love.

[00:44:21] Love what I get to do. And there have been so many other opportunities that I've said no to. And I, this is a filter, one of the filters I use. You know, I've got my personal, you know, vision and mission statement, which I think through, but then I also really do think about these particular geniuses. If I do this, how much energy will it take?

[00:44:38] Or there are a few projects I have on my plate and I know those projects are going to be in my competencies and frustrations, and yet I know they're essential to the work that I do. And so it's thinking through how do I create margin to be able to do some of these things? I knowing you'll able to take more energy.

[00:44:58] I'll give you an example of how I, I use my genius with one of my frustrations. So writing, I have a degree in it, like. I know how to do it, but it just drains me. When I was younger, I thought I loved writing, I don't love editing. And I realized that as I got older, but in life, when you do any type of content creation, there's a degree of writing that you need to do.

[00:45:22] And so in thinking through some of the writing, I know I'm gonna need to do and I do need to do. 

[00:45:27] Heather WInchell: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:28] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Um, I was talking to actually my coach, 'cause a good coach should have a coach too. And we were talking about how to fuse these things together. Well, I do much better as an external processor, as someone who thinks out loud.

[00:45:42] And again, that whole wonder piece, just that curious piece. It, it's, it's something I wonder usually out loud. I'm not an internal wonder. I'm an external wonderer. And so the way I've written some of the articles or the things that I've needed to do lately is I'll open up my phone, I'll put it on, talk to text, I'll put it in my note section, and I'll talk out an article because I'll just kind of think out loud.

[00:46:06] And even though I'm technically writing, it feels more like I'm wondering out loud. And that's what I'll use then to turn into a frustration, which would be the, the writing and the tenacity of putting that all down and, and, and sending it off. So. M knowing my geniuses has helped me even be able to say yes to a few things that are not in my, necessarily my area of strength, but I do, I run, I run projects and filters through, through these in term, in, in terms of knowing what I'm gonna say yes to.

[00:46:38] I think about even the jobs that I'm in right now, what I do as a coach, what I do in the mission space, they are. Primarily using my geniuses. I think back to a previous job that I have that was not, I, I wa I wanted to wonder. And I was told pretty quickly on that we don't do that here because it sounds like insubordination or it sounds like just keep your mouth closed and learn how we do things here.

[00:47:02] Don't ask, don't ask questions. And I just thought, well then I, how am I supposed to understand what it is we're doing and why we're doing it? Mm. Because it was an organization that was very, very high on enablement. And so really in that implementation space, a lot of, um, invention and a lot of enablement and not much else was utilized or celebrated.

[00:47:21] And so I knew fairly quickly on, I don't know that this is gonna be a good fit for me. And, uh, oh, and discernment was also seen as the what blanket that Yeah. It was not a good place for me on, on any level. So that would be some of the ways in which I, I use those for yeses and nos. 

[00:47:39] Heather WInchell: Yeah. And you know, as you're saying that I, I have a friend that's currently really wrestling through feeling like they don't have much to offer their company.

[00:47:49] And just wondering like, what, what do I bring? What do I have to offer? But they have a, they have a genius and wonder, and, and I wonder if it's just that kind of like the culture of the room that they're in hasn't yet noticed like, oh, we actually do really value that. And, and I wonder what does it look like to help companies see the values?

[00:48:12] They're even, you know, projecting, you know, you were talking about maybe projecting things on your kids or, or maybe creating an environment where some things are celebrated, some things aren't. And I wonder how at an organization level a company could become aware of that. Is that, like, if they brought in a coach like yourself, would the, could the coach like help them see like, Hey, this is kind of the culture you've built, or would you say the coach comes in more at the level of.

[00:48:39] Kind of working through specific team dynamics? 

[00:48:43] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yes. Both of those things. So I know with the companies, um, I've done it with, uh, it takes somebody to get curious about it on the organization first, you know, and the company to say like, Hey, I think maybe we need this. And then it takes the. Person over the company, the CEO, the executive director to, to have some buy-in.

[00:49:03] Um, and then, yeah, that team map, when you really lay that out, it is an absolute game changer for companies. Um, it's amazing for people who have not been valued because it calls out their particular gift set, and so all of a sudden they might have just felt like, Ugh, what am I even doing here? And it's like, no, look at this is what this person's good at.

[00:49:25] Mm-hmm. And so it, it opens companies up to be able to make those shifts and move things around and see what it is they're missing. So, yeah, I, I think honestly of all the different kinds of, of, of workshops and things I've done with organizations, I have to say this is my absolute favorite. Yeah. Because of the easy buy-in, the easy implementation.

[00:49:44] When I say I shouldn't say easy, I should say simple, simple in terms of clarity, it's not easy in that you gotta shift people around and you have to find specific kinds of people. But it's so clear and it's a, it's a way to pretty quickly be able to make some significant changes that can dramatically impact your work culture.

[00:50:04] But as with any company, organization, church, um, it takes buy-in from the actual leader, right? 'cause it doesn't matter how excited your people are. I've seen this time and time again, if, if your CEO is not all in on this, then what it will. What it may do is actually make your people even more frustrated.

[00:50:24] 'cause they'll think my boss now knows what I'm capable of, now knows they have me and my working frustration, and yet refuses to alter any of my job tasks or refuses to hire something that we desperately need. So, you know, once you take the blindfold off of everybody in the or you plug, what do you unplug from the matrix or whatever it is, once your eyes are open mm-hmm.

[00:50:48] That's always your way. A second. Once your eyes are opened, you can't unsee it. So yeah, be prepared if you're gonna do this as a company, be prepared for the implications of it. But they are fantastic, fantastic implications if you're willing to jump on 

[00:51:01] Heather WInchell: it. Yeah. For individual people that maybe themselves struggle to really celebrate that other people, like for example, if I, this is not the situation, I'm so thankful for it, but if I was like, I'm just so frustrated because my husband is so different for me.

[00:51:18] What are some ways that you would gently encourage people to kind of gain appreciation or understanding for, for people that have different working geniuses? 

[00:51:28] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Oh, for me it's one of the easiest ones is you love to do what I hate and praise God. Just for, for me, it's, for me, it's so clear once you realize that like, um, not that it can't be irritating sometimes, you know, I'm sure I can be, have been irritating over the years with my heavy discernment, but, um.

[00:51:46] Honestly, when you recognize them for the gifts that they are, then you make space for them and you get to squeeze all the juice out of them. Oh my gosh. In a marriage when, when you, you recognize that these are the, the gifts your spouse has, especially when you don't have them, it's like, oh my gosh. Look, I mean they, the, I love the illustration of the working genius.

[00:52:05] They show this cog or cogs, like these six cogs kind of all working together. And when you realize that your spouse has one of the cogs and is helping make the machine work, it's just, it can be a relief. So I do think the appreciation of those things in each other and that Just the timing, 

[00:52:24] Heather WInchell: yeah, 

[00:52:24] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: just do 'em at the right time.

[00:52:26] Pause for a second and go, Hey, if you're an invention and somebody's coming in with ideas like, ho, hold on just a second. Can you just let me get my ideas out? I know we've used that one a lot, but it's such an easy one to understand. But it could be the same with even, um. Enablement. Enablement might say, Hey, tenacity, hang on a second.

[00:52:44] I need to run with some of these things. Can, can you put the bow on it at the end? Gimme a second to just get these project in motion, and then you come in and refine those at the end. 

[00:52:53] Heather WInchell: Hmm, 

[00:52:53] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: sure. Yes, absolutely. Let's, let's just take a step back. 

[00:52:57] Heather WInchell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. As you were talking, it really hit me that really the frustrating thing would just be lack of awareness, right?

[00:53:03] If you're not aware. Yes. Like maybe you feel like you're caught in the same conversation over and over and you keep wanting to do something and they keep saying no. Once you have the awareness of the gift that they're bringing, it just completely changes the conversation. So, yeah. Are there any resources, like books or if people wanted to get a little bit deeper into understanding this assessment, what, where would you point them?

[00:53:28] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yeah, they can, you can take the assessment right on the Working Genius website, which is working genius.com. And then Patrick Lencioni's written an incredible book, the Six Types of Working Geniuses. 

[00:53:36] Heather WInchell: Okay. 

[00:53:36] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: And, uh, absolutely go on in. And I think a lot of times you can, um, by reading them, you can figure them out.

[00:53:44] But I do think an assessment's helpful. What I really love about their assessment is you can go in and edit it afterwards. 

[00:53:50] Heather WInchell: Mm. 

[00:53:50] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: I don't know if anybody's like me, but I am a classically terrible assessment taker and I don't know why I somehow end up with bizarre results. Most times I take assessments that just don't even sound like me.

[00:54:00] And I've always thought, oh, they gave me the wrong label. It's not even who I am, and I have to go figure it out later. Mm-hmm. This is me like every time. But with Working Genius, you can go in and edit it afterwards because Patrick Encino's own son, uh, Matt, I remember him sharing, he is changed. Two different times since originally taking it.

[00:54:19] And he hasn't changed. He's just had new realizations. He's young, he's in his twenties and as he's lived a bit more life, uh, he's come to realize, oh, I don't think I am those actually. So once you take it, you create an account, you can go in and you can shift and change it, and they have all kinds of fantastic resources.

[00:54:36] Pat also has a podcast that goes into the nuances of working genius that breaks it down. Uh, so tons, tons of great resources for you. So I would absolutely encourage you to go check it out. 

[00:54:48] Heather WInchell: Very cool. And if people were excited to hear more about the work you do in coaching or to work with you, is that something that is open or do you work with only certain.

[00:54:58] Organizations. 

[00:55:00] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Yes, people can absolutely reach out. They can find me at a drawing from the well coaching.com, or they can also go to Stephanie Lee gutierrez.com and find me there. And yes, I do this, I do working genius with companies, organizations, churches, and then I also do group coaching and individual coaching.

[00:55:20] Uh, so yes, absolutely feel free to send me a message and I would love to see how I could work with you. 

[00:55:26] Heather WInchell: Oh, wonderful, wonderful. And listener. I would, if you are finding yourself in a season where you're looking for a coach, curious, better coach. Yeah, I've had many experiences with Stephanie and I just, I would highly recommend you consider her.

[00:55:40] So that's kind of a wrap on the working genius part of our conversation. But now I just have some fun questions to close this out. What, in your opinion. Is an essential snack item on a family road trip. 

[00:55:53] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: So my answer would just change like all the time. Right now, I would say Rice Krispy bars, it's just, but I'm just craving that right now.

[00:56:00] Heather WInchell: Homemade, 

[00:56:00] I'm 

[00:56:01] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: gonna say that, yes. 

[00:56:02] Heather WInchell: Yeah. 

[00:56:02] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Homemade, extra gooey. Yep. Okay. I, I'm just gonna say that right now. Also with some wet wipes to wipe your fingers off. 

[00:56:09] Heather WInchell: Yeah, absolutely. Always the wet wipes. Never going back from that. Okay. Stephanie, if you were offered a spot in the TED lineup next week, what is one thing related to your coaching of businesses that you think would be important to talk about?

[00:56:26] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Okay, so I'm just gonna go general. Um, it would be on the topic of relationships in terms of what direction it would go in. Oh my gosh. There's so many different things I would say, but it would certainly be something, uh, in the line of relationships. 

[00:56:40] Heather WInchell: Okay. Yeah. So, uh, listener, you should know that one of the first conversations I ever had with Stephanie was about a video series that she and her husband Danny put out.

[00:56:51] It's excellent. It's on marriage. It's super fun. But one of the things they talk about is car dancing, like, and how playful and fun it is to just turn up the music and dance in your car. And I actually like, personally, really delight in seeing people car dancing because you know that that is an authentic moment of joy.

[00:57:07] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It's, so, 

[00:57:08] Heather WInchell: that is what prefaces this question. But Stephanie, what is the last song that you car danced to? 

[00:57:16] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Oh God. I don't have a strong memory, so I don't know, but I know when I would car dance to right now. Does that count? 

[00:57:20] Heather WInchell: Yeah, go for it. 

[00:57:21] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It's ca called SoYo 

[00:57:23] Heather WInchell: SoYo. 

[00:57:25] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: SoYo. It's, yeah, it's in Spanish. 

[00:57:27] Heather WInchell: That's awesome.

[00:57:28] What do those words mean? 

[00:57:30] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It like, I am Me. 

[00:57:31] Heather WInchell: Okay, cool. 

[00:57:32] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: It's all about like being yourself. 

[00:57:35] Heather WInchell: Okay. 

[00:57:36] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: And it's very fun. And Madeline and I, we card dance a lot. That's our, that's our daughter with special needs. That's when I take her to her day program in the morning. She always puts on some fun dance song. And that's, that's one we listened to recently.

[00:57:49] So I think we would, I think I'd put on that one right now. 

[00:57:51] Heather WInchell: Oh, that's awesome. I love it. Okay, so now I would like to invite you to give your own shout out. Who would you want to say thanks for doing that and why? 

[00:58:00] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Oh, golly. So this is easy for me because we've been talking about 'em so much today and that's, that's my husband.

[00:58:04] Mm-hmm. And that could come across cheesy, but honestly, that's my gut instinct. Um, I'm grateful for him and the work that he does. So he, I, he's been such an inspiration to me just in his transition from all the pastoral work we've done for years and him leading in that space to now becoming a marriage and family therapist.

[00:58:22] And, uh, I love what he does to serve families and particularly, particularly children right now. Um, he works in some high need communities and, uh, people who wouldn't otherwise have access to resources and it's just phenomenal hearing the stories, not specific stories 'cause he can't share with the specifics with me, but watch, hearing some of the stories of, uh, the difference that he's getting to make.

[00:58:46] So he has enablement and you can tell because as he serves those kids, and then through the retreats that we get to do for pastors, I just watch him, uh, live to love others and it is a constant source of inspiration to me. So I am his biggest fan all the way. 

[00:59:03] Heather WInchell: Very cool. Well, Stephanie, I end all of my episodes with the haiku that I've written for you, and it's interesting to hear what you just said and to think of, um, the haiku I have for you and how I think it ties in with, with that.

[00:59:16] So. Um, and listener you should know, even though today we were talking about working genius, my haiku is really just for in general the person that I have discovered Stephanie to be. So here's my haiku for you. You wear many hats as you lead and love others. Thanks for doing that. 

[00:59:36] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Thanks, Heather. I love that.

[00:59:38] Heather WInchell: You're very welcome. Thank you so much for joining me today. 

[00:59:42] Stephanie Leigh Gutierrez: Thanks for having me, Heather. You are so much fun to be with, and I love how you are so great at recognizing the gifts in others and bringing them out for the betterment of the world around you. Appreciate you. 

[00:59:53] Heather WInchell: Mm, thanks.

[01:00:04] Thanks for doing that. Is presented to you by the apiary, a place for beholding and becoming, and thank you for joining us for today's. Before you go, I have a couple of invitations. If you found it meaningful, could I invite you to take two minutes to rate and review the show? I also invite you to help me create an upcoming episode of thanks for doing that, by nominating someone or suggesting a topic.

[01:00:30] Let's link arms to call out the good and the beautiful that we see around us because I really believe that finding delight in our divided and difficult world could make all the difference.