The Chief Enthusiast Takes the Guest Seat

In this special season finale, the tables are turned as Heather Winchell—the host and Chief Enthusiast behind Thanks for Doing That—takes the guest seat.

Interviewed by her friend Robin Elgard, Heather reflects on her 5+ years of podcasting, the joy of celebrating ordinary faithfulness, the people and ideas that have shaped her, and the surprising friendships formed along the way. She shares about family life, creativity, calling, bees, books, simple delights, and why paying attention to the good still feels like a meaningful act in a divided and difficult world.

This episode also marks the second birthday of Thanks for Doing That—a celebration of the conversations, guests, and listeners who have helped make this little corner of the podcast world what it is.

We talked about a lot of books on this episode! Here they are:

• Adorning the Dark — Andrew Peterson
• Every Moment Holy (liturgy series) — Doug McKelvey
• The Art of Living in Season — Sylvie Vanhooser
• Rocket Fuel — Gino Wickman & Mark C. Winters
• A Gentleman in Moscow — Amor Towles
• To Kill a Mockingbird — Harper Lee

Special thanks to Robin Elgard for stepping into the host chair for this special season finale and second anniversary episode of Thanks for Doing That. It was a joy to turn the tables for a conversation reflecting on the journey so far.

Catch more of the story @thanks.for.doing.that.podcast! 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Heather Winchell: Hey there. You are listening to Thanks for Doing That, a podcast celebrating people and ideas that make this world a better place. I am Heather Winchell, your host and chief enthusiast, and I'm on a mission to bring you conversations that encourage, inspire, and delight. So stay tuned for another episode where we explore the things we do, the reasons we do them, and why it matters.

[00:00:45] Robin Elgard: Well, hi there, and welcome back to the podcast. You're probably already wondering, this is a strange new voice. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about that. Our guest today is a podcaster, a mother, a thinker, a friend, much more, and no stranger to most of you. That's because our special guest today is Heather herself.

[00:01:11] Heather Winchell: Woo-hoo. 

[00:01:13] Robin Elgard: The host of Thanks for Doing That. So at this point, you might be wondering, well, if Heather is the guest, then who in the world are you? My name is Robin, and I am both a friend and a fan of Heather A few months ago, Heather and I were just catching up on life, enjoying some time together, and I don't remember exactly how it came up, but I think at one point I sort of jokingly suggested that she should have an episode where the tables were turned.

[00:01:42] I would interview her, and here we are. It's actually happening. 

[00:01:46] Heather Winchell: It is actually happening. So fun. 

[00:01:49] Robin Elgard: So I hope today, um, you enjoy getting to know a little bit more about the woman and the heart behind this podcast. Both are a treasure, I assure you. Thanks for Doing That celebrates people and ideas that make the world a better place by exploring the things we do, the reasons we do them, and why it matters.

[00:02:08] Heather Winchell: Mm. 

[00:02:09] Robin Elgard: Well, Heather, welcome to your very own podcast. 

[00:02:12] Heather Winchell: Hey. Thanks so much, Robin. 

[00:02:14] Robin Elgard: How strange is this? 

[00:02:15] Heather Winchell: You know, I, um... Thankfully, it doesn't really feel very strange at all. I think that's because you're a friend, we're sitting in my home, and it honestly just feels like a lovely opportunity to chat and connect- Mm

[00:02:28] more so than, like preparing for an interview. Yeah. 

[00:02:31] Robin Elgard: If that makes sense. Totally. 

[00:02:32] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:02:33] Robin Elgard: We're sort of gonna follow a little bit of a pattern like you normally do with your guests. 

[00:02:36] Heather Winchell: Okay. 

[00:02:37] Robin Elgard: But I know that you often begin by asking your guests a little bit about their life, and I'm sure that your listeners have heard bits and pieces about your life over the, the years.

[00:02:48] Um, but for those who maybe haven't or don't know, can you start by giving us a big picture of your life, what it looks like for you right now? 

[00:02:56] Heather Winchell: Sure. Okay, so it's probably well known that the biggest things in my life are that I am wife to Joel, or Handsome Man, as I sometimes call him. And mom to four incredible, curious, fun, sensitive, energetic boys.

[00:03:14] And so right now our spread is four and a half up to almost 13. We have s- we have a kiddo, we're actually celebrating his birthday today with family. Aw. He turns 13 this coming Tuesday, so at time of release he will have turned 13, so that is really wild. Yeah, so that's kind of like the very basic things about, um, what life looks like.

[00:03:36] It's just showing up and being present for those really important special people in my life. Um, outside of that, it is my joy to host this podcast. So much fun. I know we'll get into more about that later in the interview. And aside from that, I like to dabble in a lot of creative things. I write, um, I volunteer some of my time with my church and with a creative group in town called Every Little Seed.

[00:04:02] And, and then in the time that I'm not doing those things, I also work part-time for a local doctor's office, uh, just doing back administration and things like that. 

[00:04:13] Robin Elgard: Hmm. Great. So you don't really have much going on. 

[00:04:16] Heather Winchell: Yeah. I don't know. Honestly, to me it doesn't actually feel like a lot, and it's funny to me because people will often comment, like, "How do you have time for all of that?"

[00:04:25] And I don't know. It's just- Hmm ... that's just the things I do. And, and actually I'm, I'm kind of always looking for, like, new ventures. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So yeah, I think it's just maybe part personality, part maybe I'm just, like, blind to my own need to slow down. I don't know. 

[00:04:42] Robin Elgard: Hmm. I do wanna ask, how are you processing and feeling about having a teenager in your house?

[00:04:49] Heather Winchell: Oh, man. That, okay, so in preparation for the party tomorrow, because, I mean, I know becoming a teenager is a big deal. 

[00:04:58] Robin Elgard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:59] Heather Winchell: And, um, it's not like he's graduating and moving off, but it does feel like a moment to really stop- Yes ... and reflect and savor. So I was going through, actually on this desk over here, there's like all these pictures of him from- Mm-hmm

[00:05:12] like the, you know, these first 13 years, and just for us, I think we're really in this transition seeing him as becoming more of a man. Like, this is... There's just a lot that's going to change in the things he gives his time to and just, like, growing in the skills to be independent, things like that, that just, wow, Robin, I'm not ready for that.

[00:05:33] And- Yes ... I mean, you know, we've been friends for a long time. Yeah. I watched you, I met you when your kids were all kind of pre-teen. Yeah. Like, becoming teenagers. Yep, that's right. And so I know enough from watching other women navigate this to know that it all happens so much faster than you think. 

[00:05:51] Robin Elgard: Yes.

[00:05:52] Heather Winchell: And so I think there's a part of me that's already feeling like, whoa, tomorrow he is going to be graduating. Seriously. And he is going to be moving out, and that feels big. 

[00:06:02] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:06:02] Heather Winchell: And exciting, too. 

[00:06:04] Robin Elgard: Absolutely. 

[00:06:05] Heather Winchell: Really exciting. I mean, as I've been reflecting on the person that he is and the person I see him becoming, I'm just like, wow- Mm

[00:06:12] you're a really incredible person. And so I've loved the shift in what conversation with him looks like. 

[00:06:19] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:06:19] Heather Winchell: And just, you know, the shift that my husband and I are taking from kind of like training to coaching. 

[00:06:26] Robin Elgard: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:27] Heather Winchell: And yeah, so it's a- Yeah ... mixed bag for sure. 

[00:06:30] Robin Elgard: Absolutely. 

[00:06:31] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:06:31] Robin Elgard: Well, I'm excited for you. I, I am very surprised at how much joy I found in the teen years.

[00:06:38] Mm. I think you... Well, people always tell you they're gonna be awful, and the way I'm wired, I, I'm like, I'm a little people person. I got that. The teen years, terrifying. 

[00:06:49] Heather Winchell: Hmm. 

[00:06:50] Robin Elgard: And of course some hard things, but just watching them mature in so many ways, and when you are invited into that process, and it's just, it's so sweet.

[00:07:03] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:07:04] Robin Elgard: It's been such a sweet journey. I'm excited for you. 

[00:07:06] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Thank you. 

[00:07:08] Robin Elgard: Well, let's talk a little bit about this podcast. I was looking back at the history, and it looks like your first show was released into the podcast world in the summer of 2024. Am I right about that? 

[00:07:22] Heather Winchell: You are. So I started putting it together early 2024.

[00:07:28] I think I released a teaser trailer in May And then in July of 2024, July 3rd actually, is when I released my very first episode. And it was so fun. Um, I remember that a bunch of friends showed up, and we had champagne on my front patio and just celebrated- 

[00:07:46] Robin Elgard: Hmm ... 

[00:07:46] Heather Winchell: like the birth of this thing. And, um, yeah, it's, it's really wild.

[00:07:51] Actually, I think this episode will release on the, essentially the two-year anniversary, which is really fun. 

[00:07:57] Robin Elgard: Oh, that's so cool. Mm-hmm. Congratulations. 

[00:07:59] Thank 

[00:07:59] Heather Winchell: you. 

[00:08:00] Robin Elgard: How many episodes? 

[00:08:01] Heather Winchell: I think this will be 47 or 48. Yeah. 

[00:08:07] Robin Elgard: That is awesome. Congratulations. 

[00:08:10] Heather Winchell: Thank you. 

[00:08:11] Robin Elgard: Well, tell me a little bit about your journey as a podcaster.

[00:08:16] I kind of remember you dreaming about this for a while, but how, how did it all begin? 

[00:08:20] Heather Winchell: Yeah. So right now I work part-time for a local medical practice, but before that I actually had the privilege of working for almost 11 years for a local nonprofit, which you know, 'cause we worked together- Mm-hmm ... which was super fun.

[00:08:33] And I loved, and still love that ministry. But when I was there, I actually was in a season-- I wore different hats in different seasons, but in one season I was a project manager, and I really felt like the project that I was overseeing could be benefited by having a podcast. And so I collaborated with a teammate, and we started a podcast around giving people vision for the formational process of stepping into ministry and inviting people into financial partnership, so like fundraising.

[00:09:06] But our emphasis was definitely more on how that forms you as a person to learn dependence on God and partnership with people. 

[00:09:14] Robin Elgard: Mm. 

[00:09:15] Heather Winchell: And that was so much fun. And honestly, I can remember even five years earlier when I worked in a different part of the company, telling, telling my teammates like, "Guys, I think we should do a podcast."

[00:09:25] 'Cause I just, I love connecting with people. I love- Mm ... exploring ideas. I think that podcasts can come in in a really disarming way and create a lot of room for seeing things differently and for exploring different perspectives. So I just love the whole premise. And yeah, so started a podcast there. We had that podcast for, I think...

[00:09:50] I don't know if it was technically five seasons, but it was long going. I mean, over 100 episodes- Mm ... which I myself had the ability to produce. So I think that that built my confidence in like, "I could do this. I could, I could create a podcast. I've got the basics to be able to produce it." I mean, I'm no like, I'm no whiz in the studio, right?

[00:10:09] Like, my skills definitely lie in the people realm. But I had a c- I had a coworker, his name was Zach, and he was just so generous with giving me tips on how to edit things, and yeah. So that's kind of where I got started with the idea of podcasting. And then I just, I don't know, I enjoyed it so much, and in my personal life I was exploring a lot of ideas that I was like, "Gosh, I would love-- I would just love to have spaces to, to really push into this."

[00:10:34] And so I actually joined a creative accountability group. The premise of the group was to bring a creative idea, and they would kind of help you and give you accountability to get it off the ground. So I started that process in Early 2024, and actually like midstream, the whole concept for what I wanted my podcast to be changed.

[00:10:55] At first, I was going to do a podcast that explored nuance, and just kind of invited conversation around different perspectives, and holding nuance in things that maybe we want to make black and white because that feels more controllable, but actually there's just a lot that, of nuance to it, right? Like, I mean, things like addiction or, um, forgiveness.

[00:11:17] I mean, just like these giant topics that I cared about. Mm-hmm. But that podcast idea, though I think, though I think something like that would be really meaningful, especially when we've had such a breakdown in the ability to disagree and the ability to hold different perspectives civilly and, um, with generosity of heart, like I think that would be very needed, but it felt like a giant idea to bite off and chew, right?

[00:11:42] Mm-hmm. I mean, I at the time had a, what was he, two? A two-year-old. Even though it's only been a couple of years, I just feel like what it looked like to have four kids looked very different. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure you understand. A- and I just honestly, I think in the midst of a really difficult season personally, I decided to shift the podcast more towards like gratitude and noticing the good.

[00:12:04] Mm-hmm. And actually, w- I'll talk more about this, but one of the kind of grounding and anchoring quotes that I come back to for the podcast is from Andrew Peterson. He said, "Delight in what you find delightful more than you bemoan what isn't." And so- Hmm ... I just, I wanted to do that. I wanted to be vocal and leverage my voice to call out the things that are delightful, and bring unity and shared joy around that.

[00:12:30] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:12:30] Heather Winchell: So that's kind of how this podcast became what it is in the world. 

[00:12:34] Robin Elgard: Yeah. 

[00:12:35] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:12:36] Robin Elgard: What has surprised you? 

[00:12:38] Heather Winchell: Oh, man. I have been genuinely surprised by how so many of the people that I've had the opportunity to invite to join me on the podcast have actually become friends. Oh, that's cool. Like good friends, and people that I will travel to go see, or yeah, they've just become integrated into my life, which is really, really neat.

[00:13:03] Robin Elgard: Hmm. This is kind of a big question, but what has delighted you? 

[00:13:08] Heather Winchell: I think I just continue to be delighted by how every time I sit down to talk to someone, I have an idea of why, right? Like, there's something about what they're doing in the world or how I've experienced them to be that makes me want to lean in, ask more questions.

[00:13:25] But I think I find myself delighted over and over again by just how much deeper it is. Like, I, you know, for example, I had a carpenter on this, I think it was this season, Season 2, and, um, I wanted to talk with him because I was like, "Hey, you've got some skills that a lot of people don't have, really want but don't have."

[00:13:49] Mm-hmm. "And, and you kind of are unruffled by all of the kind of unexpected things that happen in the process of, like, putting in a new door for somebody or something like that, and I just wanna hear more about that. Like, what has formed you? How do you show up as such a kind, patient- Hmm ... person with your clients and just as I've seen you with other people?"

[00:14:11] And, and then just in talking to him, just the, like, depth of character and just the real treasure of a person that he was. I just... Yeah, and I feel like it's like that with so many people. There's just... You, you think, you think you understand, like, oh, this thing about you is really cool, and then you start talking to them and you're like, wow, you're just a really beautiful person.

[00:14:37] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:14:37] Heather Winchell: And that is just so delightful to me. It's also been a delight how often people say yes. 

[00:14:43] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:14:44] Heather Winchell: There's been people that I send an, I send an email or I send a message just thinking, "You know what? It would really be cool if I could sit down and say thanks to you in person, but if I can't, that's okay."

[00:14:56] And I'm just genuinely delighted when they're like, "Yes, I'd love to do that." And I'm like, "Well, thank you." 

[00:15:00] Robin Elgard: Hmm. "

[00:15:01] Heather Winchell: Let's do it." Yeah. 

[00:15:03] Robin Elgard: Awesome. 

[00:15:04] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:15:04] Robin Elgard: Um, I know that you have had a lot of amazing and wonderful guests, so this question might be difficult, but I wonder, do you have any episodes that kind of stand out as favorites or meaningful, extra special, anything like that?

[00:15:19] Heather Winchell: Oh, this is such a hard question because I genuinely, with only a couple of exceptions, I genuinely just, like, walk away from conversations like, "I am your biggest fan." Mm. Like, "You are such a cool person. Everybody needs to know you." So this actually is really hard for me. But I think if I just... I don't know if I could come at this from a couple of angles.

[00:15:44] I think it was really, really meaningful to me, one of my guests this season was a friend that I've had since middle school, and h- at that time, he was, like, always ju- just a dreamer and had these, like, radical ideas, and he was very playful. Just a really fun guy, and it was so fun to connect with him, to reconnect with him, and to see, like, where that's taken him.

[00:16:10] I mean, he's, like, flying all over the world doing video production for some of the world's largest organizations, like, telling really meaningful stories, like, for compassion or even for Walmart. And I'm just, like, in awe of how he's in so many ways still that really fun friend from sixth grade. You know what I'm saying?

[00:16:31] Well, yeah. Like, he's just... And, and to just see, like, how that's blossomed. So that was really special. I would say another really special interview for me was I had the opportunity last fall to fly out to Nashville and to sit down at the artist in residence quarters for The Rabbit Room, which is a nonprofit out of Nashville, and interview Doug McKelvey.

[00:16:52] And for those that don't know, Doug McKelvey is the author of the Every Moment Holy liturgy series. And what's really cool about that is my family has been reading one of Doug's liturgies. Oh, well, I use his liturgies a lot, like, because the liturgies are around everyday moments like making coffee or around, like, the death of somebody you love or around how to remember somebody.

[00:17:20] It just, the liturgies span a wide variety of life circumstances, but there's one that is... Or he has a series that's focused on, like, every day of the week, and our family has been reading that. And in that liturgy, it prompts you to name your hopes, prayers, plans, and concerns. And I, like, have a binder that has years and years and years of the Winchells' hopes, plans, prayers, and concerns.

[00:17:47] So it's been a really meaningful rhythm in our family's life. And he was one of those people that- Oh ... because we're so removed from each other, I didn't know if he would be willing to join me on the podcast. 

[00:17:57] Robin Elgard: Yeah. 

[00:17:58] Heather Winchell: But he said yes, and then as it turned out, I was able to go out there with my friend Courtney and to meet my friend Patty.

[00:18:03] And we were all able to, like, sit in that interview room as I talked to him, and it was... There's just dynamics about that interview that were really fun in and of themselves. But it just felt so meaningful to be able to actually say thank you for this gift that he gave my family that we benefited from for years and years and years before I was ever able to, like, meet him- 

[00:18:26] Robin Elgard: Hmm

[00:18:27] Heather Winchell: which was cool. And then I think another that comes to mind is a guest named Sylvie Vanhooser. Sylvie is one of those people, she has become, like, a good friend. Like, we text. I'm planning to go see her and stay with her. She's just- Such a holistically beautiful person. And the thing I love about Sylvie is she wrote this book, "The Art of Living in Season," and I read it, and the first time I read it, I was blown away.

[00:18:54] Asked her to come on the show. She came on the show. Lovely interview. And she's French, so it's just like I could just, like, listen to her talk all day. 

[00:19:01] Robin Elgard: Oh, yes. 

[00:19:02] Heather Winchell: You know what I'm saying? 

[00:19:02] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:19:03] Heather Winchell: And, um, yeah. And then I've actually... It's just one of those books that I continue, like, I'm, I'm rereading it again this year, and it's kind of read in the cadence of the seasons, and so...

[00:19:16] And I'm just amazed by how I'm continuing to pick up even new and different things than I did the first time. Mm. So she just feels like a person that's like an unfolding treasure. The more time you spend with her or her words, it, it just feels like there's no end to the wisdom and the beauty that I glean from them- Hmm

[00:19:36] which is really cool. And so that, I think that would be another favorite episode just because it, it was the start of what's becoming a really beautiful friendship. 

[00:19:45] Robin Elgard: Hmm. Very sweet. 

[00:19:47] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Robin Elgard: You probably couldn't have anticipated that. 

[00:19:49] Heather Winchell: No. 

[00:19:50] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:19:51] Heather Winchell: No. And then of course, I guess I would also just say I did an episode with my book club last year.

[00:19:57] I think it aired... It was season one in January of 2025, and that will always be precious to me because it was some of my very best friends in the world, um, one of which is no longer with us. And if you heard the last episode I released, it was a tribute to my friend Sheree Johnson, and she was on that book club episode, and I did book club with her for several years, and it just...

[00:20:21] That I, I will always be grateful for that captured moment that I can go back to again and again. 

[00:20:27] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:20:27] Heather Winchell: Hearing her explore ideas and books and just the way she thought about things and- 

[00:20:32] Robin Elgard: Hmm ... 

[00:20:32] Heather Winchell: so I'm really grateful for that too. 

[00:20:34] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:20:34] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:20:35] Robin Elgard: What a gift. Uh, this is a question that you've asked of your guests I would like to ask of you.

[00:20:41] Who has inspired you as you've lived into your gifting and calling? 

[00:20:46] Heather Winchell: Mm. So a couple of weeks ago, I released an episode with a woman named Charlene Provlis. She is a spoken word artist, and she is just a really cool person. And she actually defined inspire as, like, to breathe life, which I thought was really cool.

[00:21:06] And I was actually even looking for myself, like, how... 'Cause I'm a words person, I kind of geek out on looking up the, the origin. When I typed in the meaning of inspire into Google, it said, "To inspire means to fill someone with the confidence, desire, or motivation to do something, especially to create, act, or achieve a goal.

[00:21:26] It is the act of breathing fresh energy, ideas, or purpose into a person." And so I am going to also not just have one person for this, 'cause I just, I love so many people. Uh, but I'm gonna kind of start, like, at the biggest, um, biggest perspective, and then kind of come down from there. So I... It is probably not a secret to anybody that I love Ben Rector.

[00:21:49] Like, he is one of my favorite artists. Mm-hmm. And I think it's because the things he sings about are just so relatable to everyday life, right? Like, yeah, I just, I love his music. I love how kind of quirky and playful he is with the rhythms of his music. I love the content and the things he talks about, like what it is to be in the golden days and to be like, "Oh my gosh, you guys are driving me crazy, and also I know this moment will pass and I'll miss it."

[00:22:14] Um, or just like the... Yeah, uh, just so much about his music. If you haven't listened to Ben Rector, you should probably pause this podcast and do that. But I'm inspired by him because he's so... He wields everyday life in s- in a way that makes you reflect on it and find it more beautiful and to be more grateful for it.

[00:22:34] Like, I love that his music typically tends towards, like, gratitude or seeing the beauty in something. 

[00:22:42] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:22:44] Heather Winchell: So I would say Ben Rector for sure inspires me in that way. Um, and then I would be remiss to not say Andrew Peterson. You know, his book, um, Adorning the Dark, has been so formational for me in just shaping a lot.

[00:22:58] And I think, I think that the way I think is very similar to the way he thinks. So some of the struggles he has and the things he's processed through and the way he comes to his conclusions just feel so resonant to me, and I just have appreciated so much of his perspective. And so I, I would definitely say I'm inspired by Andrew Peterson.

[00:23:19] And then my friend Sylvie that I just referenced, she, she was just, like, a mom. She was just a mom, and she, you know, taught French to American students. And just through the process of living every day and doing those things She eventually wrote a book, but it didn't actually come from her wanting to write a book.

[00:23:41] It came from her creating fun little letters to her daughters and creating content for her class that she taught, that eventually people were like, "Sylvie, this-- there's like something here. You should-" Hmm ... like do something with this." And so then it became her little project, and then one day her husband, I think, was like, "Sylvie, this is not a project.

[00:24:00] This is a book." And then, and then it got published. I don't know what exposure you've had to kind of like the publishing and writing world, but there's just a lot of emphasis on building a platform, on meeting the right people. There's a lot about it that feels like you need to really push your way in.

[00:24:19] You really need to make it happen. Hmm. And what I love about Sylvie's story is she was just present to her actual life, looking at, at how to bless the people in her actual life, and then out of that, God did something. 

[00:24:32] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:24:32] Heather Winchell: And now, you know, like all these years later, I have been deeply formed by those things, but not because she was determined to get a book into the world- Right

[00:24:40] because she just kind of like did the next right thing. 

[00:24:42] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:24:43] Heather Winchell: And I found that-- I find that really inspiring- 

[00:24:45] Robin Elgard: Yes ... 

[00:24:46] Heather Winchell: and really lovely. So, so she's definitely one. Um, and then to kind of come into the closest level, like at the heart of it for me, I have just a variety of friends that have been champions of, of me, and there's so many.

[00:25:01] Like there's so many. But I think I would highlight my friend Kat, my friend Courtney, and my friend Patty And they're just the people that, like, they're giving me books on writing, they're giving me feedback on my episodes, they're encouraging me that what I say matters. Mm. And it just always puts wind in my sails.

[00:25:18] Robin Elgard: Mm. 

[00:25:18] Heather Winchell: And I'm just really grateful for that. 

[00:25:20] Robin Elgard: Sweet. 

[00:25:20] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:25:21] Robin Elgard: Everybody should have friends like that. 

[00:25:22] Heather Winchell: Absolutely they should. 

[00:25:23] Robin Elgard: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Back to what you were saying about Sylvie, that's really cool to think about our daily faithfulness- 

[00:25:32] Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:25:33] Robin Elgard: having impact in someone's life that we may not even know- Mm-hmm

[00:25:37] at this point. Right. I mean, obviously we know it matters for our children and our, the people in our circle, but yeah, I love that. 

[00:25:45] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Well, yeah, and even back to Doug, you know, something I learned from my interview with him is that he wasn't necessarily thinking like, "I'm going to write liturgies that then are going to become integral to people's daily rhythms- Right.

[00:25:57] Right ... or weekly rhythms," you know? 

[00:25:59] Robin Elgard: Yep. 

[00:25:59] Heather Winchell: Yeah, and actually, I think both of them, and even Charlene, the spoken word artist that I recently mentioned, all highlighted like, just look around you and do the next right thing for what those people need, like, for right there where you are. 

[00:26:14] Robin Elgard: Yeah. I- we can do that.

[00:26:16] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:17] Robin Elgard: Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Heather Winchell: But you have to pay attention. There's a lot of energy towards getting you to, to put your attention elsewhere. Like even, even in creating a podcast, it's just so interesting to me how much of the marketing I get is not on be present where you are- 

[00:26:37] Robin Elgard: Mm ... 

[00:26:37] Heather Winchell: pay attention to the things right around you.

[00:26:39] It's, you know, some new direction for how to exponentially multiply your audience- Oh, okay. Yep ... and like all these things. And I appreciate the reminder to just stay present, look at the needs around you. 

[00:26:49] Robin Elgard: Yes. Yes. So you've kinda shared a little bit about obviously the podcast. You're a writer, you're part of a creative team.

[00:27:00] I feel like as long as I've known you, you have always had kind of this dreamer, this visionary component to your personality, which I love. I'm very much the opposite, and so I'm fascinated and inspired by people like you. And I'm just curious, like I know-- I also know a lot of people who, who are dreamers, who are visionaries, but they just kind of stop there.

[00:27:23] Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:24] Robin Elgard: And as long as I've known you, that's not who you are. You, you have always put action behind dreams, and you're always asking the question, "What does God have for me? What's next?" And then you have stepped into it. Um, and I'm just curious, like especially in such a busy season of your family life and your personal life, it would be really easy to say, "Well, someday I'll get to that."

[00:27:47] Heather Winchell: Mm. 

[00:27:48] Robin Elgard: But what has inspired you to, to just go for it, to act, do it now? 

[00:27:54] Heather Winchell: You know, I don't remember who said this, and I've, I've heard it many times, but I-- just this, this sense that like- You know you're meant to do something if you can't not do it. 

[00:28:07] Robin Elgard: Mm. 

[00:28:07] Heather Winchell: Like, if you, if it's just like, "I don't, I don't know how I could not do that."

[00:28:11] And I think I feel that way. So I think that's definitely part of it. I think I've, I've landed, at this juncture in life, I feel like I've kind of found some of the streams I was just, like, built for. 

[00:28:22] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:28:23] Heather Winchell: Which is really exciting and really life-giving. I think another element of it is I just, I'm... Are you familiar with working genius?

[00:28:31] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:28:31] Heather Winchell: Okay. Yeah, I had a prior episode on it for anybody that's hearing that thinking, "What is working genius?" But it's essentially just, like, how you show up in a team, how you show up in work, the strengths you have to contribute. And I am, like, high invention, so like aviation, ideas. 

[00:28:46] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:28:47] Heather Winchell: And, um, and I'm galvanizing, and I don't- 

[00:28:50] Robin Elgard: It's a perfect combo.

[00:28:51] Heather Winchell: Yeah. Well, yeah. If you, if you find, if you like to be in situations where you're, like, building the plane while you fly it- ... which is honestly what I, what I tend to do. But yeah, I mean, I guess I have always been that way. I, when I have vision for something, I just, it's really easy for me to throw all of my energy into it.

[00:29:11] I mean, I would say that I'm able to do that in part because I have an incredible husband who just, like, delights in seeing me chase my dreams. 

[00:29:23] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:29:23] Heather Winchell: Uh, but also is just a really grounding presence that doesn't let me do that to my own detriment, you know? 'Cause I could, and I actually feel so grateful for, for the amount of things that I could, like, get my energy behind.

[00:29:39] I'm really grateful that I've had my husband and a larger community that keep me... You know when you go bowling and you kind of have those bumpers? 

[00:29:47] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:29:47] Heather Winchell: I feel like having c- good community has given me the bumpers that have not let me go off the rails with all the things I could pursue. 

[00:29:55] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:29:55] Heather Winchell: And have kept me just for the good balance I need of presence at home and out there spreading my wings.

[00:30:04] It feels like I found a really great balance with that because of all of the people who love me that are willing to be honest when something feels like it's becoming imbalanced or who throw their energy behind supporting me so that I can do it. 

[00:30:19] Robin Elgard: Hmm. So if someone listening maybe has, um, a deep-held dream- Hmm

[00:30:26] or idea, but they're kind of afraid to go for it, like, what encouragement would you offer to somebody in that place? And are there any resources that you might point them to? Where could they start? 

[00:30:37] Heather Winchell: Hmm. Well, I will just say that it was so beneficial to me to have a creative accountability group, to have people that were excited with you and championing you and asking you the questions that, that helped you to actually do the next thing.

[00:30:56] Outside of that, I think, like I, I just mentioned in my prior answer, I think just having community, period, is really helpful. There's a book called "Rocket Fuel" that talks about how behind a great idea or a vision, there's the visionary, so there's the person that's kind of like dreaming into it, but then there's also the integrator.

[00:31:17] There's the person that's like kind of bringing the visionary back to reality to understand like what functionally needs to be done and how to actually move it forward. And so I would encourage people to find an integrator. If they have a big idea, find somebody that will listen well and ask good questions, um, and be willing to say-- to be willing to challenge you on things, because that will actually get you farther as you listen.

[00:31:44] I would encourage people to read "Adorning the Dark". I think it's been an incredible book for just understanding our God-imaging act of creating. And I think some people might think, "I'm not, I'm not a creative person," but actually just when you think of the broader scope of what it is to like bring something into fruition or augment and make something more beautiful, I mean, that can happen through spreadsheets, that can happen through writing, that can happen through visual art, that can happen through the way you treat other people.

[00:32:18] There's just... Yeah. There's-- We're all, we all image God in the act of creating. Hmm. And I would encourage people to really feel confident in that and how that reality will undergird any idea they wanna bring forward. 

[00:32:34] Robin Elgard: Hmm. Love that. Well, we're gonna kind of turn our attention toward closing the podcast, but you always have kind of a series of fun questions you like to ask your interviewee, your guest.

[00:32:49] Heather Winchell: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:50] Robin Elgard: And honestly, sometimes that's my favorite part. 

[00:32:53] Heather Winchell: Mm. '

[00:32:53] Robin Elgard: Cause you get a glimpse of kind of the person. So I'm gonna ask you some of those questions. 

[00:32:59] Heather Winchell: Sounds great. 

[00:33:00] Robin Elgard: Actually, though, before we get to those, I wanted to ask you, I'm sitting here in your office. Mm-hmm. It's super fun in here. It's very inspiring.

[00:33:08] Your walls are covered with art. You have notes from loved ones. So many things that are obviously really meaningful to you. And one thing I'm noticing a lot of are bees. 

[00:33:21] Heather Winchell: Uh-huh. 

[00:33:22] Robin Elgard: And I don't know if you and I have ever talked about this. Oh, 

[00:33:25] Heather Winchell: really? But 

[00:33:25] Robin Elgard: tell me about bees. 

[00:33:27] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:33:27] Robin Elgard: Why is... Why are th- there are bees everywhere?

[00:33:29] Heather Winchell: Yeah. That's a great question, and actually a super fun element of this space is Liam will come in here, and he will sit in that chair, and he will say, "Mom, let's count the bees." 

[00:33:39] Robin Elgard: Cute. 

[00:33:39] Heather Winchell: And he will count... And there's- 

[00:33:40] Robin Elgard: Liam's your youngest son. 

[00:33:41] Heather Winchell: Liam's the four-and-a-half-year-old. Yes. Yeah. And so we have a lot of fun counting the bees.

[00:33:45] But yeah, it would honestly be a little odd to have as many bees as I do in here if there wasn't a story behind it. So I think I probably shared this on the podcast before, but when I was a little girl, my nickname was Heather Bee. And I think it actually started out as Heather Bear, and then it tr- evolved to Heather Bee.

[00:34:06] And so, like, I mean, since I can remember, my immediate family and extended family have called me Bee or Heather Bee. 

[00:34:13] Robin Elgard: Oh. 

[00:34:13] Heather Winchell: And it's really interesting. This, this part, oh, ugh, I need to find a way to, like, talk about this without it sounding, like, too corny or pointed, but here's, here's the reality of it. As I've...

[00:34:25] Like, I- I find a lot of meaning in words and in names and things like that, and as I've really thought about what a bee does in the world, I'm like, "You know what, Lord? I am a bee. I love to pollinate. I'm drawn to beautiful things, cross-pollinate ideas, connect people. I like to take in from a variety of sources and create my own good and beautiful things, so like honey.

[00:34:49] The things I create, I always do with the intention for it to, like, nourish or bless or help or form." So it's just, it's kind of become this little God wink in my life of, "Man, before you even knew the way I designed you to move about the world, people were, like, speaking that over you." And I just- I don't know.

[00:35:10] One of the most interesting things I've learned about bees is that they're not super efficient. For any, any given flower that needs to be pollinated, the bee is kind of an inefficient pollinator 'cause it's, its body isn't designed to really get in there. I learned about this when I was at the abbey. I went to an abbey with some friends after that interview with Doug McKelvey, The Abbey of Gethsemane in Kentucky, and I, I just, like, did a deep dive on bees because they had this beautiful meadow with all kinds of bees.

[00:35:40] And but yeah, they're kind of generalists. They don't specialize, which is also true of me. I mean, if you've listened to my podcast, I have talked to writers, and I have talked to carpenters, and, I mean, just there's no niche that I fall into outside of I enjoy people. And so yeah, the bees are just kind of a playful nod to my nickname, and really I just

[00:36:07] the way I feel like I've been designed to move about the world. 

[00:36:10] Robin Elgard: Aw. So cool. Yeah. I love that. 

[00:36:12] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:36:12] Robin Elgard: I'm glad I asked. 

[00:36:13] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:36:15] Robin Elgard: I hope you don't have bee gifts starting to show up on your doorstep or in your mail. 

[00:36:21] Heather Winchell: Hey, you know what? I welcome it. As I look around, I mean, I have a, a bee stuffed animal that my mom just gave me, I think for my birthday.

[00:36:30] That's cute. My friend Patty, I think when we went to the abbey, gave me this, this little, like, sign. Oh, how cute. So actually, I ... I mean, I do think there's probably going to be a point where it's ... I'm saturated on the bee stuff. 

[00:36:43] Robin Elgard: Right. Enough. 

[00:36:43] Heather Winchell: Maybe I'm reaching that point. But I don't know. But I ... It just makes me feel so profoundly seen when people give me bee gifts.

[00:36:50] Aw. So. 

[00:36:52] Robin Elgard: That's really fun. Yeah. It is. Well, Liam will just have to keep counting. 

[00:36:56] Heather Winchell: He will. And the, and then the boys make quite a bit of bee stuff. I mean, half of what's in here has been made by my kids. 

[00:37:03] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:37:03] Heather Winchell: The bee stuff. 

[00:37:04] Robin Elgard: Yeah. Oh, that's super sweet. 

[00:37:05] Heather Winchell: It is, yeah. Yeah, 

[00:37:07] Robin Elgard: like 

[00:37:07] Heather Winchell: this one right here. This is, like, non-drying clay, so.

[00:37:10] But this, this is the latest creation. It's like- Oh, my 

[00:37:13] Robin Elgard: word ... 

[00:37:14] Heather Winchell: it's suspended on toothpicks, and- ... I mean, I'll take a picture for you, listener, 'cause you can't see it. That's cute. But it's pretty precious. 

[00:37:21] Robin Elgard: I'm such a sucker for kid art. 

[00:37:22] Heather Winchell: I know. 

[00:37:23] Robin Elgard: S- I still have it. 

[00:37:25] Heather Winchell: Yeah. It's, 

[00:37:25] Robin Elgard: it's the best. The 

[00:37:26] Heather Winchell: best. Yeah. 

[00:37:28] Robin Elgard: Okay. Well, Heather, tell us about a simple delight in your life right now.

[00:37:37] Heather Winchell: Okay. I'm going to... Actually, I have four that I need to name. One is kind of going back to what I started with talking about my 13-year-old, almost 13-year-old. Conversation with him is a simple delight because he's at an age where he's really starting to wrestle with some meaningful and big questions. 

[00:37:57] Robin Elgard: Yeah.

[00:37:58] Heather Winchell: And I just feel so grateful that myself and his dad are people that he, like, very willingly comes to and talks about those things with. That is precious- Yes ... and a delight to me- Yes ... 'cause it's not always like that. Also, my second kiddo, Hudson, is such a cool, creative person. He's constantly digging through the recycling, constantly making...

[00:38:21] I mean, he makes his own pinball machines out of cardboard, and his own marble runs. He's just always creating. But one of the things he's created, and he'll just randomly come up and we'll find something on the fridge inviting us to play an escape room. And then the other day we were at the dentist office, and I was like, "Dude, what did you bring to work on?"

[00:38:38] And he was designing a board game- Oh ... called The Space Escape. And so-- No, I'm sorry, The Space Station. And so he's just always creating experiences for people, and they're legitimately good. 

[00:38:49] Robin Elgard: Oh. 

[00:38:50] Heather Winchell: They're not just, "Oh, that's cute. You know, well-" 

[00:38:52] Robin Elgard: Yeah. 

[00:38:52] Heather Winchell: They're fun. So I'm-- It just delights me to think about who God's made him to be and what he will do in the world.

[00:38:58] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:38:58] Heather Winchell: My third kiddo, Andrew, has such a sweet obsession with pandas. He's got this little robe that looks like a panda that he wears, and he's got a little stuffed panda that he sleeps with every night, and it's just-- I know that's not gonna last forever, and I'm just really loving it while it's here. And then the final delight I'll mention is just Liam, my four-year-old, is at the stage where at any given moment you can round a corner and find a superhero or-

[00:39:28] a bad guy. He's just always in a costume. And it was funny because the other day some friends and I were hanging out on our front patio just chatting, and Liam comes out full, in full, like, Star, Star Wars garb, Darth Vader costume, and he's like , "I'm Darth." It was just Darth and not even Darth Vader. And then, like, the other day I walk around the corner and he's half Darth, half cowboy.

[00:39:56] So so it's just that also will not last forever. 

[00:40:00] Robin Elgard: Yes. 

[00:40:00] Heather Winchell: But I love the season of turning the corner to find Liam as a Star Wars character or a cowboy or- Yeah ... a ninja, you know? It's just- Yeah ... it's just so fun. 

[00:40:10] Robin Elgard: Oh. 

[00:40:11] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:40:11] Robin Elgard: I love that. I love that you named your delights around each of your kiddos. 

[00:40:15] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:40:15] Robin Elgard: Super sweet.

[00:40:17] Well, if you could choose any book or TV character to be a real-life friend, who would you choose? I'm wondering. 

[00:40:24] Heather Winchell: Hmm. Okay, two very different characters come to mind. One is Count Rostov from A Gentleman in Moscow. I love that book. I love his character, and it's meaningful to me because it's kind of the last book that my dad and I connected over before I lost him a few years ago.

[00:40:43] And, um, my dad and I were both, like, like loved to read. And I think the character kind of reminds me of my dad, just a very generous- 

[00:40:51] Robin Elgard: Mm ... 

[00:40:51] Heather Winchell: quiet person, a real respecter of the dignity of other people. I love that the book is very slow. I would just, yeah, would love to be his real-life friend. Then the other one that comes to mind is actually Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird.

[00:41:03] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:41:04] Heather Winchell: Because I just feel like there's so much about younger Heather that could relate to her. Like, I think we would've been friends, and I think we would've wrestled with a lot of the same things together. So those are two that come to mind. 

[00:41:15] Robin Elgard: Hmm. Very cool. Uh, we've- you've mentioned a few books today, but what is a book that you might recommend that everybody has to read?

[00:41:26] Heather Winchell: Yeah. I really would submit to people that The Art of Living in Season by Sylvie Van Hooser is just a book that the treasures keep coming. 

[00:41:40] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:41:40] Heather Winchell: And everybody's got completely different reading styles, I understand that, but if I could put a book into everybody's hands, it would be that book. 

[00:41:48] Robin Elgard: Hmm. And now I'd like to invite you to give your own shout-out.

[00:41:52] Heather Winchell: Hmm. 

[00:41:53] Robin Elgard: Who would you want to tell, "Thanks for doing that"? 

[00:41:56] Heather Winchell: Many of my guests have thanked their spouse because they recognize that so much of the wind in their sails or the room they have to, like, run after something they desire is because they have found someone to partner with that is for them and believes in them and encourages them.

[00:42:20] And so I think I would also say Joel. 

[00:42:23] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:42:24] Heather Winchell: He is such a gift to me, and I just... You know what I love? Our story isn't a fairy tale. We've made choices that have been deeply hurtful to each other, and we've known the gift of repair and forgiveness and just the beauty it is to, like, fight for something that matters, and then just to see how that has positioned us to be so totally for each other.

[00:42:50] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:42:51] Heather Winchell: You know? So I think I would definitely say Joel. 

[00:42:54] Robin Elgard: Hmm. 

[00:42:55] Heather Winchell: Thanks for doing that, Joel. 

[00:42:57] Robin Elgard: Amazing. Wonderful answer. Well, I think we're nearing the end, Heather. I 

[00:43:03] Heather Winchell: think we are. 

[00:43:04] Robin Elgard: This was such a treat. Mm-hmm. I feel super honored to be sitting here, getting to be the one to interview you, so thank you for allowing me to do that.

[00:43:12] Heather Winchell: Yeah. 

[00:43:12] Robin Elgard: I love that we finally found a time to make it happen. 

[00:43:15] Heather Winchell: Yep. We're both busy moms. 

[00:43:19] Robin Elgard: Well, Heather, on behalf of all of your listeners, let me say to you, thanks for doing that. Thanks for doing this. Thank you for taking your dream and idea and bringing all of your beautiful self to create this amazing little corner in the podcast world to make the world a better place.

[00:43:37] Heather Winchell: Mm. 

[00:43:38] Robin Elgard: Well done. You're so 

[00:43:38] Heather Winchell: welcome

[00:43:50] Thanks for Doing That is presented to you by The Ebyery, a place for beholding and becoming. And thank you for joining us for today's episode. Before you go, I have a couple of invitations. If you found it meaningful, could I invite you to take two minutes to rate and review the show? I also invite you to help me create an upcoming episode of Thanks for Doing That by nominating someone or suggesting a topic.

[00:44:15] Let's link arms to call out the good and the beautiful that we see around us, because I really believe that finding delight in our divided and difficult world could make all the difference.