Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions

Navigating Gender Dysphoria and Family Dynamics

• Laurel Shea • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Can understanding gender identity transform our perceptions of self and others? Join us in this poignant episode of Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions, where I sit down with my insightful stepson, Loki, to unravel the layers of transgender experiences. Loki's personal journey illustrates the nuanced distinction between gender identity and gender expression, shattering stereotypes such as the belief that transgender men can't wear makeup. We emphasize the importance of respecting personal boundaries and treating each other with dignity.

And what about the notion that being transgender is just a trend? We dive into the emotional landscape of gender dysphoria, especially among children and teenagers. Through heartfelt anecdotes and professional insights, we shed light on the challenges parents face when their child comes out as transgender. Our conversation also tackles the struggles within conservative religious communities and celebrates how increased visibility has paved the way for more authentic self-expression. The aim is to foster deeper understanding and unwavering support for transgender individuals and their loved ones.

How can organizations like the Girl Scouts better support transgender youth? In our discussion, we share the meaningful journey of a parent and their transgender child, Iris, highlighting the crucial role of validation and gender-affirmation from family and friends. We also confront the exclusionary policies of some groups and the pervasive influence of TERF ideologies. By the end of this episode, we hope to inspire kindness, open-mindedness, and a more inclusive environment for all children. Tune in to hear why believing and supporting transgender youth is not just important—it's essential.

Please note that this podcast was originally recorded on 5/12/23.
#Transgender #Podcast #LGBTQ #TransRights #Inclusivity #TransVisibility #SupportTransKids

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Logo Art by Kyle Rock - https://kylerockart.wixsite.com/website


Intro:

Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. Welcome to Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. Lolly is a licensed marriage and family therapist and you are invited to join her as she delves into sweet, savory and sometimes bitter offerings of life. We hope you enjoy.

Lolly:

Welcome today to Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. I am super grateful to have my guest on today that I have. I have Loki, who is my stepson, and he has been so gracious to come on and talk about something that I think is really important. As a therapist, I keep getting so many people asking me questions about this and parents contacting me, so I think it's an important topic to discuss and I think that the voices that should be being heard are the actual trans individuals and not necessarily people like me. So I really appreciate you coming on and being willing to be open and vulnerable about this.

Loki:

Yeah for sure. A lot of people just don't know the right questions to ask or what to do when somebody comes out. It's very complicated.

Lolly:

Yeah, no, it definitely is. So would you mind sharing a little bit about your experience, like when you knew you were trans and how that was for you to come out?

Loki:

For sure. Being trans isn't like a thing that you just realize one day. It's a constant feeling that you have always. So really finding out that you're trans is finding labels for things that you've always felt. Yes, in 2018, I started researching stuff about the LGBT community because I was curious and I found labels that work for me.

Lolly:

Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah, that's such a good point, right? And I hate it when people are like "someone decided to become because that's that's not what is happening here, hear people talk about, is like this confusion around, like, well, why can't you just like dress like that gender, like they're not understanding exactly. So how would you explain that to someone who said something like that to you?

Loki:

Well, there's a big difference between gender identity and gender expression. Gender identity is your feelings on the inside and gender expression is how you dress or you know what you put on yourself on the outside, and a lot of the time those two are connected, but sometimes they're just not the same as to what is generally considered to be appropriate.

Lolly:

Yeah, that's such a good point. So I think that one of the questions that I had sent you. Let me just make sure I wrote it down. If you're trans masc or you know, a trans man, then you can't wear makeup or dress feminine because that's not okay. So what would you say to that?

Loki:

I don't know if I have a really good response, because I don't think there's really any reasoning with people who can't really understand that your gender identity is just not the same as theirs right?

Lolly:

Yeah, so this has come up a lot and you can, please, correct me if I say anything that is wrong or worded weirdly. But, I've had people be like "well, I'm just confused about them. I thought that they were like a trans man, so why are they wearing makeup? And I'm like well, who's to say why men in general can't wear makeup? Like whether they're cis or trans, or like why do we have to conform to gender like norms?

Loki:

Anybody really yeah, gender is such a made-up thing. It can be whatever you want it to be.

Loki:

I always say that there's as many gender identities as there are people in the world, because everybody experiences it differently. yeah

Loki:

Yeah,?!"

Loki:

,

Loki:

oh, that's, that's so well put, yeah, so I like this like idea of like you don't just like one day wake up and you're like, oh, guess what.

Loki:

So it's about a lot of times finding, languaging and being like oh yeah, it's finding labels for your feelings, not not trying to find feelings that just fit this label that you've picked.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's so true. So let's see here what kinds of things do people say that you think are harmful or not helpful?

Loki:

a lot harmful things come from a place of curiosity. A lot of people don't like being asked about, like the surgeries that they're going to get or what role they play in relationships. Yeah, I understand that that comes from a place of genuine curiosity and not harmfulness, but it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Lolly:

Right, and I mean that makes sense. Like I would not like it? if Or was coming up to me like, so tell like, "re the status of your vagina. Like, yeah, like that's exactly. Ok, question.

Loki:

Like. Yeah, exactly Like. It's not OK to ask just because they're trans.

Lolly:

Yeah, exactly Like it's not okay to ask just because they're trans, right, or like if someone were to come up and be like are you boobs real? Or like what's happening with your chest? Or you know, like we, like cis people, don't generally do that to other cis people, but like suddenly, if you're trans, like that's an okay question in their mind, like to ask, yeah, so that's such an important point. Like don't do that. Like that is a very personal thing for everybody, including cis people. So if you think about it like it's that one you know, treat others the way you want to be treated. It's that one you know, treat others the way you want to be treated.

Lolly:

Sometimes that's not the best thing, but sometimes it is to think like would I like this question? So yeah, so out of curiosity, and also that question of like what role do you play? Like again, I don't think anybody would come up to me and be like so between you and Jake, like who is the man and who is the woman, or like who's the more dumb? Like that would be offensive, exactly, yeah, and really weird. So why do we think that? So that actually does bring up a good point that I think a lot of people like once you've done a lot of research and you are familiar with things like this seems so obvious, but there's a lot of people out there that don't get it. And that is the difference between being trans and like being gay. So like how you know the sexual orientation, like those things are different. So how would you like, do you have like a great way of explaining that?

Loki:

Um, I'm afraid that I don't. Um, it's just, your gender identity and sexual orientation are very different things. That's all I can say.

Lolly:

Right, yes, so it's like. I recently had someone close to me who I will not say as to not embarrass this person, but they said something about being cis and what they meant was straight. And I'm like I think you mean straight. They're like, yeah, I'm like that. Those are two different things. And yeah, they're like what I'm like. No, straight is about who you're sexually attracted to you, and cis is around, like gender, and those are different things. So, like you could have a cis person who is straight, you can have a cis person who identifies as gay or lesbian or queer, and that's another thing I think with labels is like asking right, because what people prefer?

Loki:

yeah, you know, what can be really confusing for somebody who's not familiar is, uh like if a intersex person was cis, that would be confusing right, yeah, yeah.

Lolly:

And I think sometimes when people are like if someone's trans, and then I've heard people like, well then, aren't you straight? If you are, and they get all confused about because they're basing things on sex assigned at birth and like, what does if you're attracted to this, you know what does that mean? And it's actually not really anybody's business, I think, like to tell you how to identify, but I don't know why people get so hung up on that. Yeah, so like, how do you feel about like the term, like AFAB?

Loki:

I think that they can be helpful in some situations, but some people bring it up in situations where it's just not really relevant. Yeah, people bring it up in in situations where it's just not really relevant. Yeah, like and uh. That reminds me of a problem where some people will introduce somebody as trans and like accidentally out them right, so they're the term afab or amab.

Lolly:

That's useful in situations where it's relevant, right so if anybody's listening, like AFAB is like assigned female at birth or assigned male at birth, but you know when you're talking about being outed, like that's coming like down to like if someone is. Ok, some of these questions I know I didn't send you ahead of time, but like the term passing, like how do you feel about that term?

Loki:

I, a lot of people really don't like it, and I'm I have kind of mixed feelings on it, because it sort of reinforces the idea that you have to express your gender in a certain way.

Lolly:

Right. Right, because, like I guess it could cis-het argued to say like even, maybe, like some cis gay men, do they pass Right, like, yeah, and they're cis, so like, what kind of question is that? It's more like asking like, when someone looks at you, do they instantly know what your assumed gender is?

Lolly:

yeah yeah and so like, and then people are thinking that that is necessarily like the goal for every trans person, which it's not. No, it's really not. I think there's so many things that, as like straight, cis, cishet, like that you'll hear that like term people take for granted, like they don't even think about these things that you know, if you're not cis or heterosexual, it really really impacts your life and that's because of our culture, right, like we're a heteronormative, like cis normative.

Loki:

Yeah, it's just the default is assumed to be cishet.

Lolly:

Mm-hmm. And so when people say things like I never think about my gender, like it's like not even I'm like, that's because you've got privilege right, like if you have never had to think about your gender, that's privilege right there, and they need to step back and realize that Like so what would you say about people that are like that think that there is an age that is too young to come out as trans?

Loki:

Well, it's like I said before, it's a feeling that you have always had. Like I said before, it's a feeling that you have always had and many, many people I've I've heard stories from where they just knew in like preschool, obviously there's the argument that, like you're, you're mutilating kids, but that's not really what's happening. Nobody is getting surgeries young. Nobody's getting HRT young. That's not happening.

Lolly:

Yeah, this is not legal. Like there's an age that you have to be in order to have, like, hormone replacement therapy. Um, yeah, and I think they just lowered that age. If I'm correct, I think the age is 14. But I'd have to look that up. And who to that? It's kind of like, well, how would you feel if someone were to come to me at 10 and be like you're a boy? I think I would have been like no, I'm not. Like I wouldn't be confused about that, like. And so there is this idea that, like, this is just a trendy thing, right, like, oh my gosh, there's so many kids coming out as trans right now. It's such a trendy thing to do like it's and thinking that it's like a phase like, what would you say about that?

Loki:

I think it's very true that a lot more people are exploring their identities because it's okay to do that now. Mostly, that doesn't mean that there are that it's a trend or that there are more people doing it now than there ever were. It's just that more people are allowed to be themselves. I think.

Lolly:

Right, yeah, I think so too. I think Right, yeah, I think so too, and I, like you know, I no-transcript. And then my biological kid comes out as trans at the age of 12. Biological kid comes out as trans at the age of 12. And so that was an interesting experience and I've had lots of parents kind of talk to me about their feelings when their kid comes out and like, what do you think about it when parents say that they're like grieving their kid.

Loki:

I sort of understand the feeling on some level, but I think it's so important for the parent to remember that they're not losing anything. This is the child that they've always had.

Lolly:

This is their child, right? Yes, I think, like you are, you are so right. And I think, you know, I've heard people say stuff like like LGBT anything, when someone comes out to a parent, if they say something like well, when someone comes out to a parent, if they say something like well, well, I'll love you, no matter what, that that feels kind of off and weird, like well, even though there's this weird thing with you, I'll still love you, and instead, maybe feeling like like oh, that's awesome, I'm excited for you, like congratulations. Like on more self-discovery, that that might be a better approach.

Lolly:

No-transcript, yeah for sure. And I've heard lots of parents because, like, on their child you know like, they're"I using like the dead name, they're thinking back of them as like a little kid and they feel like there's this loss, loss and it's. It's interesting because I've talked to a lot of people that and people feel differently about it. Like lots of people feel differently and I've talked to trans people and some of them have been like, well, I kind of do feel like that person is dead, you know.

Loki:

Like yeah, that's that's so valid. I, a lot of trans people are take one of two paths, the two paths being either that person is dead or I've always been that person that I am now.

Lolly:

Yeah, and that was what I found with clients was like they that both showed up, like some. Some of them were like I don't know why my parents are so sad, Like I'm always. I'm still the same person that I've always been, but then, but if you truly are feeling like that person is gone, that person has died and I am a completely different person. I think, obviously it's about the person's individual experience and honoring that Um and it's, you know, just being completely real um for myself, like I, so, as we all know, my ex-husband's gay, and how many times do I have to put that out there. But I remember he went you know he's going to BYU like the Utah Mecca, the Mormon Mecca, and he was in counseling there and he was talking about being gay there. And he was talking about being gay and the therapist had said there's only one other issue that I can think of that's harder than being gay in the church and that's being trans in the church. And Josh had come home and told me this and this was like 2004. And when he said that, I was like oh, wow, I hadn't even thought about that as like a concept, really, because, you know, 2004 is a different time than it was even back then. It's a different time than it was even back then. And even as I was driving here I had the radio on and I was like playing like I don't know the best of the 90s and to today, and it was playing the funky Cole Medina and it makes reference to him going home with someone he thinks is a woman and then he says turns out I can't remember the words like so-and-so was a man and I was like that's horrible, Like, but I don't think very many people thought anything about it back then. Yeah, and that's how I grew up, like seeing that and not actually thinking about the reality of what that would mean. And so when that therapist had said to Josh like this would be, I started thinking like, yeah, like, what would that be? Like, Like that would be so hard of an experience.

Lolly:

And then you know, the more trans people that you talk to, the more you can understand. And obviously I will never fully, ever fully understand it. But to try to get it like a little bit more, and you know, when I've talked to parents about it, that don't seem to understand and it's like the parents that are like I just don't understand, like I'm totally okay with my daughter just dressing butch, like why does she have to identify as trans? And like, trying to describe what dysphoria is that this is about how they feel on the inside. This is so like what you were saying the difference between gender identity and gender expression.

Lolly:

And so, as I've heard people talk about dysphoria and how uncomfortable that is for people, and I've tried to put myself in that position, myself in that position, and I, you know, I don't know what you think about that if that you think that's a good idea for cis people to try to think about, like what would it be like for you? Like for me, it would be like what would it be like for me to look down and see that I had a penis right? Like that would feel very off. You know, for me, when I showered, I'd be like what is going on? Like I'm very uncomfortable and so like that seems to be a thing with a lot of clients, like when they're showering or they have to go swimming or something where their body is exposed and that is very vulnerable, because it's not, it doesn't match their internal experience and so this is not, this is not like something that people are making up.

Lolly:

So if you were to put that in terms of you know, if you're cis, that perspective of like what if you look down and saw the opposite, like the sex characteristics of the opposite gender, and that's that's of what a lot of trans people feel, yeah, so I don't know.

Lolly:

I think it would be good for people to actually do that, um, and to realize, like, if that were the case, okay, we're just. We're just taking me and again, please call me out if this is extremely insensitive but like me being a cis woman, and if one day I woke up and had male sex characteristics, you know, even putting on a dress, I would still feel that dysphoria at times. Dysphoria at times, and so it's just something that can be painful. And and I think again, correct me if I'm wrong, but just from clients, like it can vary for them from day to day, like how they're feeling. Or some clients feel dysphoria more intensely than others and some are like it's, it's not so bad for me, and then other people are like I literally want to cut this part of my body off. It is so repulsive to me.

Loki:

There's also the thing that, like, like it can build up over time your discomfort with yourself.

Lolly:

Yeah, yes, yeah. So I think it's like not making assumptions for anybody. If you are enjoying Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions, maybe consider going to my Patreon page and checking that out. There will be some things there that you might find interesting and I really appreciate your support from just listening, and if you want to donate, that's always appreciated as well. Thanks, so saying again, like with my history and like you've me for a letter, a referral letter for surgery, and which is ridiculous, that that's even required, I think, because who am I Like, honestly, look at this. Who am I to say, yeah, this person has dysphoria and it's okay for them to have surgery? Like when we stop and think of how ridiculous that is like, who am I Like? Like I know we need to trust trans individuals that if they're getting surgery, they've thought about it. It's not like just this whim, like, oh, maybe I'll get top surgery today.

Loki:

Yeah, surgery is not like getting a tattoo on a whim or like getting a bad haircut on a whim.

Lolly:

It's so much different, yeah, and so people have thought about this and I mean, for most people it's not something that you know, like a cis individual is not going to necessarily choose to have that surgery just for the fun of it, right, like that's just. Yeah. So I don't know why that is a necessary thing at this moment for trans individuals to get surgery, like I think maybe it's more for the insurance purposes right now I don't know if I think providers of surgery have maybe moved past that and if you are willing to pay out of pocket, then you do not necessarily need to do all of the jump through all the same hoops that people do. But it's like a lot of times it's these insurance requirements that, like you've got to have two mental health providers signing a letter and that's ridiculous. So you know, when my first client had asked me, I was like I do not even feel qualified to write this letter at all and she was like, well, I, I don't know anybody else Like was, like it's hard to find therapists to talk to about trans issues and and especially you know back then and so which, like I can appreciate that you don't know much like and and you feel inadequate in writing this, but I really need this letter. So I'm like, oh okay.

Lolly:

So I started like looking for training and you know I'm in Washington state, which is a very progressive state, I would say all in all, in terms of like trans health care. It's not where it should be, but it's better than most states and I'm looking for like education, continuing education, like programs to teach me more about like trans, non-binary gender fluid, like best practices care, and I couldn't find very much out there at all and I was like what is this? Like how are they expecting providers to write letters? And then they're not providing training on this issue? And so, like I like asked a supervisor and she's like I don't know. And like she's like, well, maybe ask this person. I think maybe they did this. And so I at the time I had found one program that did it. I found one program that did it and there's more resources out there for providers now than there were, but like that's kind of ridiculous. Then I joined like a supervisor, like a like a group of therapists who we were. We were talking about some of the some of those issues, so that I could find support that way.

Lolly:

But I guess you know, an important thing that I would just like to say as a parent is, even with all of that training and the experience and the history talking with trans individuals, like when, like my 12 year old, came out as trans, like I, I knew I wanted to support him, like I knew I wanted him to feel nothing but love and acceptance, but in my heart there was still like of like my, how I viewed my kid, you know, and, and so, like I think what you're saying is is really important and really true, because so Iris is, is 12, and that is not his dead name, that that is the name that he has chosen and and so, like what you were saying, this is something that he's been experiencing for years and just coming to understand, um, and but until he told me that my experience of him was that this was my little girl, right, and the, and the name that I had chosen for him was like my favorite name, like I had had four girls born to me and my first kid, I was like I want to name her Tessa, and I was like no, no, no, and it never felt right, and so I loved that name, and so for me, it's like I have to process how I was viewing him and change that like and not use that dead name and I will apologize to Iris that I said his dead name on the podcast but I think the point of that is for parents that like, maybe that that's not a weird thing, that you have to process emotionally how you were perceiving them and and adopt the way that they see themselves and be gender affirming in that way and and so I don't know, what do you think about that?

Loki:

I think everyone goes through a process. When somebody comes out of like accepting that this is who this person is, that you know.

Lolly:

You always have this idea in your head of who everybody is and they have their own idea of who they are and you have to accept that that's not always going to line up right, yeah, that's like super profound, yeah, yeah, that like I mean, you're right, like, everybody has their own perception of other people and it's going to be different from the perception that that person has themselves, but we all, like, really yearn to be seen. You know, we yearn to be seen for who we feel we are on the inside. You know, I think everybody wants that. For sure, I see you, the way that you feel and the way that you are identifying, and I love you as that is super validating for someone who has gone through a process of discovery around their gender identity. So, yeah, that that was very, very well put that, the way that you said that. So, thank you.

Lolly:

Yeah, so iris was I? I told iris that I was gonna do this podcast with, with you and he was like I really want to come on with with loki, and I was like I will do a podcast with you too, iris, and he was like but I really want to do one with loki, I don't get to see loki enough, like, and I was like, well, I I really feel like it was important. I knew there was going to be enough to just talk about between me and you, and so he was not very happy with me. So if, if you're up for it, I think he would love to do one with you. Maybe that would be interesting as like step siblings and that experience and you know, if the if trans issues come up.

Lolly:

But so I felt kind of bad to break, break the news, like sorry, but I just want to make sure that, because I had made this list of questions that I wanted to ask, so that I made sure that I got all of them. But, um, oh, yes, here's one. Uh, do you mind explaining what TERF means?

Loki:

Yeah, um, terf uh is trans exclusionary, radical feminist. Uh, that means a person who is a feminist but doesn't really include trans people in that belief. Generally, they're like trans women are men and trans men are women. You know the whole thing.

Lolly:

Yeah, and this past weekend my kids have been in Girl Scouts for years and years and years and Iris had come out in the troop I guess it was a month or a month or two ago and the leaders were like confused about whether or not it was okay for iris to be in girl scouts. And so they had asked and apparently and I, I don't know, I haven't looked it up, this is I, I really should look it up but what I was told was that Iris was okay to be in Girl Scouts because Iris was assigned female at birth. However, if a trans girl or trans woman wanted to join Girl Scouts, they couldn't because they were assigned male at birth. And I was like what? Because that's not even the Boy Scouts philosophy anymore. Like the Boy Scouts allows any gender philosophy anymore. Like the boy scouts allows any gender.

Lolly:

And I was like oh, this is so sad to me because the girl scouts has always been a superior organization to the boy scouts for a very, very, very long time. And I said that to the leader. I was like wait, wait, wait, the boy scouts are even allowing all genders. And the leader was like that's because their numbers are falling. And I'm like that's sad, like that's really sad, that that's the only reason why the Boy Scouts would allow all genders is because they are losing numbers. And it's also sad that the Girl Scouts feel like they're strong enough that they can have such a transphobic policy, because if they really truly are for girls, then they should be for all girls, and that includes trans girls.

Lolly:

And so I just am really disappointed and, like, at this point, as much as I have loved the experience and I feel like my girls troop is amazing and has provided a lot of good experiences, I'm like I don't think I can have my kids be part of that organization that is transphobic, even though they're letting Iris be in because he happens to be AFAB, and I guess that is where, like, that term would be helpful. When we're discussing something like this, yeah yeah, when we're discussing something like this, yeah, yeah. So hopefully the Girl Scouts will realize that that is a transphobic policy and change it. So I'm just going through all my answers oh, is there anything that you would tell cis people that they should just never, ever say? I mean, I guess you kind of said some things about like, is there?

Loki:

any. Yeah, just don't. Don't ask anything that you wouldn't want asked to you that's excellent advice, so all right.

Lolly:

Well, sir, I really appreciate you and your time and your willingness to be open about this. I think it's important to have trans voices and people that are willing to talk about that. So is there anything you would like to add, anything you've been dying to say?

Loki:

I guess I would just say be nice and keep your mind open. You know like whenever you close your mind, you're closing out people.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah, so keep your mind open. Yeah, yeah, so keep your mind open. Yeah, and why do you think people don't keep their mind open? Because I think it's because sometimes keeping your mind open it is scary, because who knows what's going to go in there, but it's like, ok, I think if you have an open mind, you're still going to know what you can reasonably accept and not accept. You know, like, if you don't want to accept that there's little people living in your garden, you don't have to accept. That if you have an open mind, not everything coming in you have to accept if you have an open mind. But when it comes to other people's experience, I think let's just trust their experience and let them be the experts on them and not be telling anybody how they feel or how they should be showing up in the world, or what's okay and and how people should be. Like Like parenting, you know, like some of these horrific laws that are coming out around the country, around parents who do support their trans kids.

Loki:

Like yeah, it's scary to be trans right now. Yeah.

Lolly:

Yeah, seriously it's. This is like this is a safety issue. Honestly, this is a safety issue. And you know, I think when we think back on, like historic things that have happened, like what it would be like to be like a Jew in Nazi Germany, and like how scary that would be and like we can all be like, yeah, that would be, and like we can all be like yeah, that would be really scary. But to, if you are cis, like to actually think about like, or even straight, you know, because there's, there is this group of individuals that are pushing for the eradication of these identities, and this is not. This is who people are. This is not. This is not just a belief system, right, this is like who people are. And if you are saying that people can't be trans and you're saying that people can't be gay, like you're saying you're, you're saying they, they can't be, and that is a very, very scary and dangerous and inappropriate thing for anybody.

Loki:

It is extremely dangerous and dangerous and inappropriate thing for anybody.

Lolly:

It is extremely dangerous, yeah, yeah. And so people need to realize like that's what they're saying when they are against trans individuals, when they are against gay and lesbian individuals, when they're against queer individuals, like they're basically saying that, like your identity, you, who you are as a human, is unacceptable and you either need to change, which is like looking at someone and telling them to change their race, right, like you. Just you can't do that, to change their race, right, like you can't do that. And so I guess that is one thing like as we're about to like.

Lolly:

Wrap up is, I've been looking for like some resources for people and there's, there's one that I really liked. It's transfamiliesorg, um, and as I was looking through it and it had like questions like top 10 questions, um, for parents, and one of the things that they asked was like has my child been influenced by their friends and or the Internet, which I think is essentially like is this a fad? Right, and yeah, there, I liked what they said. They said, you know, adolescent years are a time of discovery and exploration, and that kids, all kids, are influenced by their peers at school and by what they see on the internet, and they're like but if a person who does not have gender dysphoria watches a video or a thread about being transgender, it's not going to change their gender, you know? And yeah, and so I think that we need to keep that in mind that like, yes, yes, it might have been influenced by that, but probably just because it gave them languaging and understanding for what they were experiencing. Exactly, yeah, and then one was like something about like, is this a phase? And what they had said was it could be, but they're like keep in mind that a childhood phase may apply to an interest that lasts a few weeks or months, but it doesn't really matter, because they're like their gender identity differences, um, so a belief put forth in the past was that transgender children generally express their gender identity differences instantly, persistently and consistently, which is what you're saying is like the opposite of that. That's not how it is. And they're like well, they said it may apply to some kids, but for others it doesn't.

Lolly:

And they're like for some parents who are wanting to know, like they're wanting to take their kid to the doctor and have them run like a blood test or something like, yes, your child is trans, that is not going to happen because they're like it's confusing for us adults to sort out the difference between gender identity expression and who we are in the world, are in the world, and so we need to support our kids as they're exploring this and that their feelings right now might change. They might not change, but what is important is that you believe them and yes, that's very well put. Yeah, so it's like you believe them, you support them and you don't make them feel locked into anything, and so I think that that was better like, put like to just be like. Well, even if it is, you support your kid because they're the ones that know, they're the ones that know, they're the ones who know. So, again, I will put that in the show notes because I think that that is a good website and you can find like other resources there.

Lolly:

And another one was standwithtransorg and that is support for trans youth and their families, and there's some like. You could join a support group. You know parents can join support groups. The trans youth can join support groups and there's resources there too, because I think sometimes people feel really alone and and they don't know where to turn and and I've had, you know, parents call very desperate like because, like their, their kid is suicidal and and we do not want that, like we, we, we don't want for kids to have to get to that point, like we want them to feel loved and supported and we want families to feel loved and supported. So thank you so much, loki. I really appreciate your time and like your insight and everything that you shared. Um, and thanks for being willing to come back with iris. He will be happy yeah, for sure.

Loki:

Thank you for having me on.

Lolly:

Yeah, it was, it was a pleasure, so, uh, I will see you soon, I bet, yeah, probably. Thanks, you, take care you too. Bye, bye-bye, and bye to all you listeners too. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening. While I am a licensed mental health therapist, the information shared in this podcast is just my personal opinion and is not professional or therapeutic advice, and listening to it doesn't mean I'm your therapist either. So if you need help, please seek help from your local professional. Thank you.