Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions

Paths of Faith and Love: A Journey of Rediscovery and Connection

• Laurel Shea • Season 1 • Episode 5

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What happens when two paths diverge from a shared faith and find their way back to each other? Join me and my husband, Jake, as we navigate our shared histories of growing up in Mormon households and what it means to leave that world behind. From our missions in Wisconsin and Florida to Jake's brave step of removing his records from the church, we share a candid look at how these experiences have shaped our relationship. Our conversation touches on those unique cultural touchpoints, the complexities of past marriages within the faith, and the deeper understanding that has united us even more.

Walk with us down memory lane as we recount the serendipitous twists that brought us together. Tune in for a heartwarming story of love found and strengthened through the challenges and joys of life’s unpredictable journey.

This Podcast was originally recorded on 12-8-22.

#LoveAndFaith #Podcast

Instagram @lollyweed78
Logo Art by Kyle Rock - https://kylerockart.wixsite.com/website


Intro:

Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. Welcome to Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. Lolly is a licensed marriage and family therapist and you are invited to join her as she delves into sweet, savory and sometimes bitter offerings of life. We hope you enjoy.

Lolly:

Welcome again to Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions. I, for me at least, I have my husband, my new fresh, sparkly straight husband, Jake, in the studio. Do you want to say hello?

Jake:

Hello.

Lolly:

And he does do recording. Don't you record messages for your work?

Jake:

Yes, I've been doing our phone messages lately.

Lolly:

Yeah, so I think that goes to show like that. He's got an incredibly sexy voice, so you can.

Jake:

I've been told that I give good voice.

Lolly:

So I'm going to check in with Doug. How is he? Is he 100% Good? Okay, excellent. Dulcet Excellent, okay. So this was kind of like a spur of the moment, but that's kind of how I roll. That's definitely how Josh rolls, and last night he was like I can't. Josh was like I can't do it. So I was like, hey, jake, do you want to come in? He was very willing and I really appreciate that. So, jake, why don't you tell the listeners you are more of a private person, like?

Jake:

I am, that's true.

Lolly:

Yeah, and so like I don't want to overstep anything, but I know that there are people that are curious. They're like who was the guy that took on Project Lolly slash, josh slash?

Jake:

crazy girls Like who is this guy?

Lolly:

Yeah, what? Because you know, that is what people said to me, like when Josh and I were getting divorced, and they were like, uh yeah, you're going to have a hard time finding somebody that's going to be accepting of your friendship with Josh and your weird family dynamics and you're going to have to find somebody pretty amazing, which, I mean, I think I think I did find somebody pretty amazing, but I'm glad you feel that way.

Lolly:

So we'll go into that, but I'm going to have you just share as much background as you feel comfortable with.

Jake:

Well, all right. I mean, when we met, I think what we really connected over was our shared history, our religious background.

Lolly:

Yes.

Jake:

And so I think that's pretty probably a good place to start. So I served in LDS mission.

Lolly:

Yeah.

Jake:

Do you want to tell them where you served Sure I?

Lolly:

served in LDS mission. Yeah, do you want to tell them where?

Jake:

you served Sure. I served in Milwaukee the Wisconsin-Milwaukee mission.

Lolly:

Sorry to anybody from Wisconsin listening, I just am like ugh yeah.

Jake:

That's cold. It was very cold, very cold in the winter, one winter in Fond du Lac, wisconsin, fond du Lac, with the wind chill. We were out knocking on doors in minus 40.

Lolly:

Oh, to me that's like you know child abuse, because, like you're a kid.

Jake:

Well, right, and they did tell us. They said you guys need to go out and do your missionary work unless the mission office calls. If it gets too cold, we'll call you and tell you to stay in. But of course they never did.

Lolly:

How cold was it.

Jake:

Minus 40.

Lolly:

Well, of course you can be out knocking doors and negative 40.

Jake:

Yeah, that's no big deal.

Lolly:

Yeah, no, no, because you'll be protected.

Jake:

Yeah, the spirit kept us warm.

Lolly:

Well, that's so great. Yeah, so you went on a stateside mission. I also went on a stateside mission, that's right, but I went to Florida.

Jake:

You didn't need the spirit to keep you warm. No, no.

Lolly:

I did not. I was in Orlando so we had lots of warm. That was the one thing. When I send in my mission papers I was like, just don't send me anywhere cold and that was like, seriously, the vibes I was trying to give out. Don't I hate the cold, yeah, so you picked that up for me. So thank you. So you served a mission Right and well.

Jake:

After that, I married a Mormon woman and we married in the temple. Yes, Because that's what you do.

Lolly:

You do. Josh and I got married in the temple Right. Yes, and you are technically still sealed.

Jake:

Well, I think all of my stuff is revoked because I had my records removed. I had a law firm in Salt Lake. Help me do that.

Lolly:

Yeah, ok.

Jake:

Quitmormonorg Putting out a little plug. Yeah, they're awesome.

Lolly:

Do they still do that, though? I?

Jake:

think they do. Yeah, they still help people. The church has put up some more like roadblocks, like you have to get things notarized and stuff, but they'll still help you with the papers and things.

Lolly:

Oh, that's nice. So you got your name officially removed from the records.

Jake:

I did yeah.

Lolly:

So that means technically that maybe you're not sealed anymore.

Jake:

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess for her the sealing is still in place.

Lolly:

Mm-hmm. See, these are interesting questions when you're Mormon, like, it's very important.

Jake:

Right yeah.

Lolly:

Because I mean technically, josh and I are still sealed. Right, which is a weird thought, yeah, but it's a big deal for active Mormons.

Jake:

Well, yeah, it is and anyway. So I'm glad to be out of that stuff generally and I was glad to meet someone like you who grew up in utah like I did yes and we shared so many like cultural touch points that was super exciting for me because I did grow up in Utah until I was 15.

Lolly:

Yeah, and you lived there most of your life, right and so, and like we're what a year apart in age, mm-hmm, I have this incredibly beautiful Utah boy who gets all of the cultural things that are a part of your life when you're raised Mormon and also like the Utah thing, like we both bond over some of this Utah stuff if you're not from Utah.

Jake:

Like Lagoon.

Lolly:

Lagoon. You know Kiss in 97. And like what was it? Fisher and Todd and Aaron in the morning. So I know there's people out there that are like, yes, if you were raised in the 90s in Utah, you know what I'm talking about. So it was fun that you shared all that stuff. So we met on OKCupid.

Jake:

Right.

Lolly:

We'll just throw that out there. Success story for OKC.

Jake:

Right, and I had just edited my ad to say I love this story. Ex-mormons, mushroom hunters and pyros, please step to the front of the line, yeah.

Lolly:

Yes, I love it. You said that, like before, you had more of a generic profile and then it hit you. You were like you know what the person that's going to want me is going to want me. So I'm going to make this a little more personalized.

Jake:

That's right yeah.

Lolly:

It's a good thing you did, because that was the line that caught me. Like, of course I swiped right because you know you're cute. I was like, oh, this guy, he's really cute. And I am one of those people I do read the profiles, I read them, and so when I saw that ex-Mormon mushroom hunters and pyros stepped to the front of my, I'm like, oh, I have got to message this guy, because I was not someone that usually messaged people. I usually waited for people to message me, so I rarely messaged anybody. But you were one of the only people I did and I was like, okay, I really hope this guy messages me back, which you did.

Jake:

But I was also excited to hear back from you.

Lolly:

Oh yeah, that's awesome. What did you think about my profile?

Jake:

Well, I was concerned about the being in business with your ex-husband in a therapy business with him, but I was. That was also very, you know, compelling. Mm hmm, interesting. So, I wanted to find out more about that and I'm glad I did.

Lolly:

Yeah, I'm glad you did too, like so this was a funny thing. I like messaged him, he messaged me back. Luckily it wasn't Bumble, because you've got like 24 hours to communicate with the person or else they like erase the connection.

Jake:

Right.

Lolly:

Because it took me and you a while, like it was. Like I would write you a message. You'd go for like weeks without responding, and then you'd write me, and then I'd go for weeks without responding.

Jake:

Six weeks all told?

Lolly:

I think no, I think it was longer than that, because I messaged you in July and we didn't really start talking until the end of September.

Jake:

Yeah. Yeah, that's about right, because our first date was in October.

Lolly:

Yeah. So it was like these little oh yeah, that guy, I should message him back. But then at one point you're like maybe we should like get off the app and text each other. And that's when it took off Like we started actually like communicating on our phones instead of through the dating app.

Jake:

Yeah.

Lolly:

And it was really fast.

Jake:

Yeah, I always found that, like chatting with someone on the app was always clunky.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah.

Jake:

Like as soon as, the quicker you can transition that conversation over theunky. Yeah, yeah, so like as soon as—the quicker you can transition that conversation over the better.

Lolly:

Yeah, I'm glad you made that choice. Yeah, so it was like we'd been talking. Then we talked on the phone and you were—I was at work one night and you were like hey, maybe we should meet up and have dinner. I was at work one night and you're like, hey, maybe we should meet up and have dinner. And I was like OK, well, I'm working I was working in Federal Way at the time, and so we decided to meet up after work. It was kind of later.

Jake:

It was. If I'm remembering correctly. Seven or eight, something like that, yeah.

Lolly:

So we met at Ivers, which is, if you're not from up around here, it's a delicious like chowder house. It was very yummy. So that was our first date, ivers.

Jake:

I had fish and chips.

Lolly:

And I had cloud chowder in a bread bowl. I still remember all of these things.

Jake:

I thought you were going to say you still have that bread bowl.

Lolly:

Oh no, you're like what?

Jake:

is that rotting?

Lolly:

smell in your little hope chest. And I'm like this is our bread bowl. That's so romantic. No, well, because we talked for a while at that first.

Jake:

Oh yeah, we were there for a couple hours.

Lolly:

Yeah, it was good. I was like oh, Just chatting. Yeah, I like this guy. I was. I think I was still dating some other people too at the time, and so I was trying to fill stuff out.

Jake:

But, lucky for me, your girls didn't like him, that's true. We probably shouldn't say his name.

Lolly:

Yeah, we won't say his name, but I was dating a guy and my girls did not like him at all and they were like, mom, you know you're too good for him, why don't you just break up with him? And I was like, well, but he's cute. And I was lonely and I knew it wasn't really going to work with that guy but I still kind of kept seeing him because I was lonely.

Jake:

Yeah. So I should just say right up front I was the beneficiary of them not liking him coming into the relationship and it was a huge help.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah, because they were like, oh, jake's so much better. Yeah, so, um, you met. And this is interesting because I had it as a rule that I wouldn't introduce the girls to people that I was dating until I'd been dating them for like three to six months. And I mean, I guess technically we've been talking for that long but I hadn't really gone on a date. But I did introduce you really quick.

Jake:

Well, I think it's because I said that I wanted to be Exclusive. Yeah, I said I wanted to be exclusive and you're like well, I guess we don't need to wait six months. Then.

Lolly:

Right, I was really surprised. Like we were at my office and out of nowhere, you're like well, I guess we don't need to wait six months. Then, right, I was really surprised, like we were at my office and out of nowhere, you're like I really like you, I want to be exclusive. And I was like what, whoa? I had to take like a second to think about it.

Jake:

I didn't feel like it was out of nowhere.

Lolly:

I felt like we had some good dates. We did have really good dates that date in that office was nice. It was a very good date in that office. Yeah, that's very true, and you're right, like we've had some really amazing dates, but I just wasn't expecting that. But I don't know, I like that. You like surprise me often with things like when you asked me to marry you. I was not expecting that either.

Jake:

Awesome yeah. Because that was pretty quick after we met and so yeah, but if you like it, you got to put a ring on it. That's the way it is.

Lolly:

I'm so glad, well, I mean we met. I'm so glad, well, I mean we met. Well, it was, like I said, july, it was 2020, July 2020.

Jake:

Right.

Lolly:

So we no 19, 2019.

Jake:

Right.

Lolly:

Yes, because then we started dating in October of 2019. Mm-hmm, and then you know, we were exclusive very quickly after that, and that's probably a good thing, because COVID was like right around the corner Looming, yes, and so I was really glad that I had already found you by the time that COVID hit. Yeah, so we did have a COVID wedding. So we did have a covid wedding. We did have a covid wedding and here's the thing like we got married pretty quick, like and there was different feelings about that, like oh yeah, there were feelings all over the place.

Jake:

Everybody in the family had their own opinion about Lolly and Jake, on both sides.

Lolly:

Yeah.

Jake:

Oh yeah, it was very, very topical at the time.

Lolly:

It really was, and my parents were like well, as long as you love him and he loves you, that's all we care about and that he treats you well. So my family was more like yay, I'm so glad you found someone that you love.

Jake:

Like even my ex-wife wouldn't let us have my old dog because she was like we're not sure if that house will be stable. Yeah, A stable place for the dog to live.

Lolly:

My dog yeah.

Jake:

Yeah, a stable place for the dog to live my dog.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah. Well, and that was also interesting because we had your oldest son living with us.

Lolly:

I was like almost more concerned for the dog, like, well, the dog won't be in a stable environment, but my son, that's another thing. So we did move in together and that was very quick and so. But part of it was out of like necessity. Just things kind of fell into place like around needing to move and and and so you moved in and uh, so at one point that was, you were living in the house josh was still living with with me.

Jake:

so all in the house together. Yeah, josh, and the girls and you and me and Harry and Chad.

Lolly:

Chad, Josh's brother.

Jake:

And Scooby.

Lolly:

And Scooby. We were fostering this dog at the time. So, yeah, we had. That was a full house it was so I mean, this is not like a huge house either. So, it was like Josh's brother Chad was sharing a room with your son Harrison. It was a very full your son. Harrison, it was a very full house. It was, and it was crazy at times. And you asked me to marry you, and when was that? April?

Jake:

It was. It was April 20th.

Lolly:

April 20th yeah, 420.

Jake:

Yeah.

Lolly:

Which you particularly loved, which was another thing like, like, because I used to smoke, but I don't anymore. Yeah, and I think that was another thing that Josh was not a huge fan of.

Jake:

Yeah, that put off a lot of people.

Lolly:

Yeah, they're like, but he smokes weed and you didn't smoke in the house, you didn't smoke around the kids and I mean I can understand why they were concerned about it. I was like, I mean it's legal here in Washington state, washington state. So I was like, oh yeah, I mean it's not like my favorite thing ever, but like you were not stoned all the time or anything like that. So I kind of was like I kind of had to just push away what everybody else was saying and just go with what I felt was the right thing for me. And we did get married really quick. And when you asked, I really was not expecting it that day at all, I was so surprised.

Jake:

I couldn't believe that it wasn't on your radar.

Lolly:

Well, it was just so soon in my mind and I was like, oh, everybody's going to freak out about this.

Jake:

And they did.

Lolly:

Yeah, and I think this was one of the things is like, josh and I were still very much entwined.

Jake:

Yes.

Lolly:

And so I was still kind of thinking like what's Josh going to think? And you know, he's my best friend, and so I was still trying to navigate like the roles. And I remember at one point I had to make some big decision that was going to impact both you and Josh and I was like who do I talk to first, both you and Josh? And I was like who do I talk to first? Like I seriously was like I don't, I don't know who to talk to first, like my boyfriend or my best friend. And I was really conflicted about that, like because Josh had been my best friend for so many years and like I mean, I'd known him since he was like four and so he'd just always been this part of my life and I hadn't known you very long. But I was like this amazing experience for me to finally experience love, because, yeah, josh loved me as a friend but not as a lover, and so it was very confusing for me to be like ah, I remember you'd tell me you'd be like.

Jake:

You even brought that to me. I'm realizing that I need to be talking to you first. Yeah, I think you said yes. And that was nice. It was nice to see that transition because I wasn't sure if you were going to make that transition until that point.

Lolly:

Yeah, well, and I think that was that decision where I ended up talking to you first and just being like, well, if you, they go to whose opinions matter to them. And you know, some people it's like their mom's opinion trumps everybody's. You know they'll do what their mom says. And some people are like, well, my best friend's opinion trumps everybody. But for me, growing up like my parents were always super close and had such this wonderful marriage and I had made it. I had these little rules in my head about relationships and one of those was that my partner, slash husband, would be like my number one in my hierarchy, like of who I would be checking in because of the role that he would be playing in my life and and so it was weird because Josh was that he was my husband and best friend, so that wasn't hard. He was obviously the number one person I'd go to and then to be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, a minute. Now, according to my rules, I'm supposed to be going to Jake first and you had different opinions than Josh.

Jake:

Right At times and so and you'd have cognitive dissonance over.

Lolly:

I did.

Jake:

What I'd give you versus what you'd expect to normally get from Josh.

Lolly:

Yeah, and I was also going to see a therapist at the time, so I was getting input from my therapist friends. Everybody had an opinion about everything.

Lolly:

And so ultimately, I was like I need, jake. I think one of the biggest gifts that you gave me, honestly, was to tell me to trust myself over anyone or anything. And, um, just you telling me like, hey, trust like that, the, the inner goddess within you, because I was also kind of transitioning spiritually and unsure like what source to turn to for guidance, because I had a very clear system in place. And and for you to say, hey, you need to trust your inner self above, above me, above your parents, above Josh, and like that meant a lot to me and um, and to me that was like a big signal of like wow, okay, he trusts me and he supports me in whatever I think is the best for myself. And so when you asked me to marry you, I was like, oh, wow, this is really really fast, I don't know. But then it was like an idyllic kind of day. We were on a trail and there was like bunnies hopping by and like bald eagles fly soaring above the sky and we were sitting under the tree.

Lolly:

Yes, it was idyllic and I was like, well, what am I waiting for? Like he's pretty much everything that I've wanted. Like I kind of had put out this list into the universe of like wanted in a, in a future partner, like, and it was. It was kind of specific, like I had down, like that I wanted him to like lionel richie, like this was, this was a thing, and I brought that he did.

Lolly:

and I have to tell you like, because one of our first dates we were, he was playing music from his phone, so it's a collection of his music and some commodore's uh music song came on. I was like, oh, do you like lionel richie? And he was like, yeah, of course I do. I was like, oh, my right. Then I was like a goner, yeah. And I was like, well, I bet you don't have like my favorite Lionel song, because it's kind of an obscure one, it's not like Hello or Three Times a Lady. And you're like, just try me, I bet you I have it. I was like, okay, do it to me.

Jake:

And you were like and I was like not the Captain and Tennille, one right, yes.

Lolly:

It's do it to me and you're like, and I was like, not the Captain and Tennille, one right, yes. And when you said that, I was like oh, you know exactly what. And you like pulled it up and played it and I was like oh, because that is like just the song that I, it just gets me going, so I brought it in that moment.

Jake:

Looking back, I'm so grateful that you know everything came together.

Lolly:

Yeah, it really did. So I was like okay, I mean he likes Lionel Richie, like he's my Utah boy from and he like knows Mormonism. He went on a mission Like he's got.

Jake:

I speak. Therapy too, yes too.

Lolly:

Yes, yes, you had a lot of emotional intelligence, which I really needed, like in someone, and that was kind of a hard thing to find. As I was stating, I was like these guys are just not getting some of these deep concepts that I was wanting to talk about, and they're, like, when they say things like, wow, you're so smart, like, and meaning like, way smarter than me, that makes me concerned because I don't want to be way smarter than my partner, right? So the fact that, like you, were super smart about things, like a very wide range of things, and so thank you, darling, you're welcome.

Lolly:

People are like, oh my gosh, you two are disgusting. I'm like, hey, this is my indulgence podcast episode, okay, so, which I get to just talk about how much I adore you. But at that point, like I was reviewing all of the things and I'm like, what am I waiting for? Like, and in my mind the phrase the search is over came into my mind and I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm going to marry you. And then that one song came into my head. What song was that? Journey, the search is over. I going to marry you. And then that one song came into my head. What song was that? Journey, the search is over. I've been with you. You were with me all the while.

Jake:

Yes, that song came into my head.

Lolly:

I was like see, and you even knew it because I sang, this is the song that I'm singing.

Jake:

And we were like singing that on the way back when we walked back to the house.

Lolly:

It was so perfect. So that was a great, great day and I'm glad that I made that choice back then. But right now, actually this is a good time for our break.

Jake:

I'm glad you made that choice too, before we break Break.

Lolly:

Yeah, I'm glad you said that, so we'll be back soon. All right, if you are enjoying Lolly's Candy Store of Emotions, maybe consider going to my Patreon page and checking that out. There will be some things there that you might find interesting, and I really appreciate your support from just listening, and if you want to donate, that's always appreciated as well. Thanks, all right, welcome back. I appreciate you being here, jake.

Jake:

It's fun to be here with you.

Lolly:

Yeah, I really do Like you have shown up a lot for me and so thank you darling. Yeah, we've, you've. You have two kids.

Jake:

That's right From my first marriage. My oldest is turning 21 in a matter of days. Yeah, and the younger from that union is 19 now.

Lolly:

Yes, yeah. So that actually was something that was really good. I was like I'm so glad he doesn't have a ton of kids, because I already had so many kids and like for you, like as a Mormon, to only have two kids, that's.

Jake:

Well, my ex-wife was told in her patriarchal blessing that she would raise sons and daughters in righteousness in the gospel, and she took that to mean that she'd have at least four kids, sons and daughters.

Lolly:

Yeah.

Jake:

That's what she was intending and I knew that going in. But you know, then we had two kids and the conversation was do we want another kid? And we went back and forth on that like for a while, for a couple years, and I think you know, in the end it was like, yeah, it'd be nice to have another kid, but do we want to do all the diaper stuff and all the money and another pregnancy? She didn't really like being pregnant all that much. So yeah, we called it good at two.

Lolly:

Yeah, so if you're listening and you're not Mormon, we're referencing a lot of Mormon stuff here. A patriarchal blessing is like a very special, like blessing that you get once in your life. So you and it's given to you by a patriarch.

Jake:

Right.

Lolly:

And it hit me. I was like, if I ever didn't think that Mormonism was full of patriarchy, how did I, how did I miss that?

Jake:

Because I mean they have literal right there.

Lolly:

Patriarchs, and so it's this blessing that you get, and it's supposed to be like. It guides you throughout your life and it's very like, kind of like a sacred thing that you're not really supposed to share with many people, but you're supposed to reference it often, right, and so that would be a big deal.

Jake:

It's basically personal scripture.

Lolly:

Right, personal scripture, yes, and so for your ex-wife, like that's she's, you know, looking at this personal scripture and trying to, you know, follow it. And that is an interesting thing, because my patriarchal blessing said that the most important thing that I would ever do in my life was to be a mother in Zion.

Jake:

Naturally yeah. That's what women are for in Mormonism.

Lolly:

Yeah, and so, like that, I took that for a long time and was like, okay, I guess that's my purpose in life, which I mean it is an important aspect of my life. My kids are super important to me, but hanging my entire identity on that was, and has been very problematic for me, like, and I've realized as the time has gone on that like there were days when I was like a stay at home mom where I would literally be like I hate my life. I would say that to myself, like I hate this, I hate my life. I just I loved my kids, but I felt like my brain was rotting away and I just was never a kid person, so I just was and I'm like not that great at like keeping house.

Jake:

Well, I think people don't understand how pervasive that is in the church, like even in leadership, like if you're a woman, you can lead other women.

Lolly:

Right.

Jake:

But you can't lead anything that men are participating in.

Lolly:

Right.

Jake:

Because your place is in the home.

Lolly:

You could if it's primary and like primary is the children's organization.

Jake:

Little boys. Yes, but not men.

Lolly:

Or like maybe if a man is a teacher, then maybe Right, but that's only in the children's organization.

Jake:

Right, and then you know you can serve a mission. The young men are commanded to serve missions. Yeah, the young women can serve a mission. And then if they fall in love, they're sent home because they belong at home with a spouse. Yeah, I think that that depends on your mission, because oh, ok, well, maybe that was just my mission, because in my mission there was someone that fell in love.

Lolly:

A sister missionary fell in love and they made her stay. Wow yeah, she fell in love with her zone leader and when he went home they had her stay.

Jake:

Oh, that was unheard of. In my mission I had two mission presidents.

Lolly:

So did I yes.

Jake:

And they were both of the opinion that, like, if a young woman didn't want to, you know, if she fell in love, then she should pursue that instead of being on a mission.

Lolly:

Like are they talking like in love with a missionary or anybody?

Jake:

I think it was if she had a prospect at home.

Lolly:

Oh, ok, yeah.

Jake:

OK, yeah.

Lolly:

Okay.

Jake:

Yeah. So I mean I can see how, like if she was in love with someone in the field or something like that, we did have two missionaries who were serving in our mission office go home and get married.

Lolly:

Wow.

Jake:

Yeah, they liked serving together in the office and they went home and got married.

Lolly:

Were they male and female?

Jake:

or was it too okay, I was like, or was this like a special, like no, I mean I did have a gay companion, but of course you know he he wasn't out even to himself. Yeah, you know. I mean he was one of those guys, you, you know yeah, but he is out now I don't know so you're assuming that I would hope so for his own like yeah, yeah. I hope he's found his way and his people yeah, because he sure did suffer on the mission, like his mom died while he was with me.

Lolly:

Oh.

Jake:

And yeah, it was just crappy for him.

Lolly:

Oh, that is really suffering.

Jake:

Yeah, a hard time for them oh that is really suffering.

Lolly:

Yeah, a hard time. Yeah, oh my goodness. But yeah, you are not right about like women in the church and the role really is to be the mother to children, like that is the role. Like that is the role and it says it in there's. There's a proclamation to the family which basically says that men are to preside, provide and protect and women are to nurture and that's the roles.

Lolly:

And so I was doing that and I was not very happy not to say that some people can't love that, because I know plenty of people that stay at home with their kids and they find that very fulfilling. So I don't want to say that that's impossible. Right, I know that there's lots of people that that really enjoy that, and I think that there were some things that were really good because I was a stay at home mom. Like there were a lot of benefits to that and I do miss certain aspects of it, but I just I was not happy doing that and and so. But I'm still referring to this my purpose in life was to be a mother and so every day that went by, I would be like, well, at least I served my purpose in life. Like my children are alive and they know that I love them. So mark off that box that I've served my purpose in life today. And that has been a struggle for me now because I can't do that at the end of the day, be like well, served my purpose in life, like, because it's so open now for me, like, and it's not being told to me what my purpose is anymore, and so I'm like always seeking and looking and being like what am I? What's the right thing for me now, and I mean it's way easier.

Lolly:

I remember listening to actually another podcast it's called Wardless, like W-A-R-D-L-E-S-S, and talking about leaving, how, like the process of leaving the church, and I really enjoyed that podcast and I remember one of them asking, like what's something that you miss from the church? And one of them said I miss knowing everything. And that resonated so much with me because I do. I missed that knowledge of, like everything that the church tells you and I missed knowing that every day that passed by I was fulfilling my purpose in life. And it is scary Like and and that's, I think, when you asked me to marry you and I was like I had this system before of how I would like, check in like and figure out like you know, praying, and, and for me to just try to check in with my own authority.

Jake:

You had just barely lost that system too. It had been recent in your life that that system had been. I don't know if it stopped working or if you just conscientiously chose to stop doing it, but it was one of those things, and you were freshly on your own in that regard it was.

Lolly:

I mean, this is a whole thing that I could talk about, because I did feel guided a lot, but and I still do and I think it's the same thing that was guiding me before, that's guiding me now, but I just don't have a different conception and name for it. Like you know, whatever, if that's inner wisdom, if it's like my higher self I was like it's the same thing, I can recognize it as being the same thing that I've had throughout my life. That's been guiding me. But you know, as a Mormon I was calling it the Holy Ghost, right, and then, when I— but that's their lie.

Jake:

I think it's my opinion that when they say that what they're really describing is something inside of you, Right. And they're taking it away from you and basically selling it back. Right, and that's one of the things that really gets me about the church is how you know they take away things that are already yours.

Lolly:

Yes, like your, your authority.

Jake:

Yeah.

Lolly:

Which I think was a huge thing for me was like realizing that I was always and I think I even mentioned earlier on the podcast like who do I talk to first? Like who's who's the first person I get input on, who's like the person I'm going to default to, and to realize, like, wait a minute, I have to be my own authority on all things. And that's scary but also super empowering. To be like what? Like yeah, if I get to do what feels right to me and it doesn't matter what anybody else says, like I will do that and follow my own inner wisdom. And so that has been a big switch.

Lolly:

And yeah, I was kind of in the middle of all of that, like figuring all of that out and yeah, like you sharing that, you trusted me and kind of pushing it back onto me, a lot Like and I think Josh and I were used to the old system, right, we were used to how we would do things together and we were, I think, relied on each other, a lot like and I know he has told me this like he relied on my spirituality, a lot like where he'd be like what do you think, lolly, you go and pray and like well and and he just he trusted my spirituality a lot, but it was different.

Lolly:

And so when you came and were like no, this has got to come from your, from you, you, it was a shift. So I appreciate that and I was just like for the listeners, like is there anything that you would like to tell them about, like anything you thought was particularly hard about this process, because blending families is challenging. And you came in, like you said, like your kids are almost 21 and 19, and so you had this nice little life with two kids that were almost grown, and you jumped into this insane family where I had four girls and Lexi was little at the time, like she was still in diapers.

Jake:

She was a little tiny.

Lolly:

Yeah, and so, like you're jumping in to four girls Three of them were still in elementary school and like, were you, I? You're so brave. And like, truly, I'm like that there's a lot of guys that wouldn't take that on.

Jake:

They'd be like Well, it was sort of fate calling my bluff a little bit, I think, because when I went through the divorce a few years earlier few years earlier At the time we had a big house in which we had a section that we usually had rented out A lot of the time.

Jake:

We had family living down there and if not family, then renters and we had a couple of big dogs, and so I was used to being in a house with a family with stuff going on all the time and helping the family manage all the stuff that was going on in that house. That's what I like to do, and it was really jarring for me when the divorce went down and I didn't get to live my life like that anymore, and so I was sort of telling myself I'd really like to be in that situation again, be with my family in my house and, you know, have the stuff going on and doing that kind of work, and so when you came with that challenge, I kind of had to, you know, look myself in the eyes a little bit and decide whether I was up to that task.

Lolly:

Mm-hmm.

Jake:

So yeah, I mean it wasn't accidental and it wasn't effortless either, but it was worth it. I mean I'm grateful that we got through that transitional period because it was so hard, but now things are so good yeah.

Lolly:

Yeah, and I think we just keep needing to like reinforce that, because I think people that again followed our story and then they see us now and they're like, oh, you guys did it so seamlessly. I'm like, oh no. It was not seamless, no it was no, I mean, you were there when I was crying Me and Josh. Having to redefine our relationship was super hard for both of us. Oh yeah, and it really honestly wasn't until you came along that that had to happen.

Jake:

That you both really had to reckon with what the divorce meant.

Lolly:

Yeah, and so that was kind of a couple of years where you know people were like you guys are just kind of going along like nothing was different, except for Josh had Carlos.

Lolly:

So, he had a boyfriend, but Carlos wasn't living with us, but Josh was still living with me and so it was almost like nothing. Not much had changed. But when you came it required a shift because, again, I think that's the nature of the fact that Josh was gay and he never loved me like that Right, and so he didn't have that as much like finagling to do in terms of where I fit in his life, Whereas I really loved him like he was, like I, my person, and I had a new person now and that was hard for him. And he told me he he knew it was going to be hard. He had said, like when you find your person like, he knew it was going to be hard. He had said, like when you find your person like I know it's going to be hard. And I remember him saying that he knew it was going to be hard to watch someone be able to love me in a way that he never could.

Lolly:

And he told me once when you were living, when we were all living together and you and I had the master bedroom and like your computer was in there and you love music and you were listening to some love song, which I'm sure was one of my favorites and you were singing it and he was in his bedroom and he could hear you singing the song and he said like it really hit him because he was like there's Jake singing this love song and he's singing it and that he really loves her the way that I never could. And he said it was like bittersweet that I had that and he was happy for me, but that he couldn't give that to me and so that is really complicated, Like it was complicated for both of us and but ultimately, like you said, I think so worth it because I am, like I'm so, so grateful that I have you in my life. Times were like I look at you and I'm like I do not know what in the world I was thinking when I was married to Josh. I don't know how I was thinking I was going to get through this. Like how did I think I could live my whole life without this love? And so grateful.

Jake:

You've got me crying.

Lolly:

It's another thing I love about you. Like you were not into toxic masculinity. There's some Kleenex up there if you need it. Oh, look at that. Wow, here, thank you, and you were really good at getting me Kleenex. But, yeah, like you showed up and it was so amazing and I hope you don't mind me sharing this little story before I end because I know it's a little cheesy. So some people are going to be like oh my gosh, this is the cheesiest episode ever. But I remember on our honeymoon mine and Jake's and that song it was like by some boy band. It was like some boy band. It was like I can love you like that. Yeah, and you looked at me and you started singing that song I can love you like that. And I knew exactly what you meant. Like I can love you the way that you've been wanting to be loved. And I just started bawling Like I was like oh, like, oh my gosh, we were driving the Pacific Coast Highway.

Lolly:

It was gorgeous it was gorgeous and I was like thank you universe for this, because now I I have the thing I've always longed for. Plus, I still have Josh as a co-parent, I still have four beautiful daughters with him and, as you know, like we're still really good friends.

Jake:

Yeah, and this thing that you guys are building is pretty incredible. Yeah, neat podcast, lols.

Lolly:

Yeah, thank you.

Jake:

This thing you're doing. This is pretty cool, thank you. I almost said a dirty word, but this is cool. Josh swears all the time on it. That's pretty fucking cool, yeah, he swears all the time on it.

Lolly:

So it's totally fine, Pretty cool, but it is Like I mean, you see that when Josh is having a hard day, like I'm having a hard day, and I'm like I'm sorry I got to go help Josh and you are super cool about that, like even last night when he was struggling, and you're like, yeah, well, I know Lolly's not going to be able to relax with me till she talks to Josh, so go talk to Josh. You've been super supportive of our friendship and you have not been intimidated. Not been intimidated like I have never felt feelings of like jealousy or like insecurity coming from you, which I think is huge. I don't think this would work if you were the kind of guy that would feel insecure about my relationship and friendship with josh and so, again, you're welcome. Like kudos to you for being like that's a nice compliment.

Lolly:

I meant it Like seriously, like so many people were like oh my gosh. This is my truth. Okay, everyone. So yes.

Jake:

So if you're in a bad relationship out there, yes. It can be better.

Lolly:

Yeah, yes, it can be better. Yeah, yes, that is so true because, like you've said, like that you're glad that we're in the relationship that we're in and it can be scary taking those steps. Like I've sat with many clients where they're like I don't know how to get from A to C, like they're watching, like how, and it can be very intimidating.

Jake:

I did not want my last marriage to end. That did not happen by my choice. I didn't envision that things could be this good.

Lolly:

You mean with me, and you, yeah, yeah.

Jake:

I didn't, I just didn't think, that could happen, but it can, yes, so, so, yeah, so I think that's it but it can yes, so so, yeah, so I think that's it. Believe in yourself, go out there and get it.

Lolly:

Yes, go out and get it. Don't suffer in a relationship that is not fulfilling you out of fear. Yeah, you know, and I would say I'm a marriage and family therapist, so I'm not saying like I think there are some relationships definitely worth saving If you have love between you two and you want to make it work, like, yeah, totally possible, and you can go find a great therapist and you can work through your relational issues and find happiness. And so there are some people out there. But I think people know like in their hearts, like if they're like kind of one door, one leg in and one leg out, like that to not be scared to take that leap that you can find incredible happiness. And it is going to be hard work.

Jake:

Yep, the work sucks.

Lolly:

It does, but in the end like and it's still, we still have hard times, still have hard times.

Lolly:

We do. We have shitty days sometimes. Yes, we really do. But then we have those magnificent days where bunnies are hopping by and bald eagles are soaring overhead and you're, you're singing my favorite song and I'm looking into your amazingly beautiful blue eyes and I'm like thank you, universe. So don't give up. And, yeah, I guess a good plug for, if this is resonating, go to our website and check out our divorce course, because there's stuff out there to help you kind of make that transition. But hey, jake, thank you so much for being here and I know you're more of a private person, thanks for having me.

Lolly:

Yeah, I love you so much. This is nice. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, and thanks again to Doug, and I'm thinking Josh will be back next week, or maybe we need to have like a Josh and Carlos like episode, you know.

Jake:

Let's get the four of us in here.

Lolly:

Oh, that would be so interesting.

Jake:

That would be fun right.

Lolly:

Yeah, yeah, so you can look forward to future episodes of all sorts Hell yeah, I'm down In advance, I'm down, yeah All sorts of family configurations.

Jake:

Yeah.

Lolly:

We'll have the dog in here. All of family configuration. We'll have the dog in here, all right. Well, I hope you all take care and thanks again for listening. Thank you for listening and, as always, I'd just like to remind everyone that, while I am a licensed mental health therapist, the information shared in this podcast is just my personal opinion and is not professional or therapeutic advice. And listening to it doesn't mean I'm your therapist either. So if you need help, please seek help from your local professional. Thank you.