Natural Body Disposition and Mindfulness at End of Life with Mike Reagan

In this conversation, Mike Reagan, CEO of The Natural Funeral, shares his profound journey in end-of-life care, from his teenage years working in a cemetery to his current role in revolutionizing the funeral industry. He discusses the importance of presence and compassion during the dying process, the innovative approach of terramation, and the challenges of raising awareness about eco-friendly death care options. Mike reflects on his personal experiences with death and dying, emphasizing a sense of peace and acceptance regarding the end of life. This conversation explores the profound experiences of end-of-life care, emphasizing the importance of unconditional love, joy in service, and the spiritual connections that arise during this sacred time. The speakers share personal stories highlighting the beauty and peace found in supporting individuals as they transition while also addressing the need for self-care among caregivers. The discussion culminates in reflecting on the Prayer of St. Francis, reinforcing the themes of love, compassion, and connection.

The Natural Funeral

Transcript

Wakil (00:02.394)
Today we are speaking with Mike Reagan. Mike is the CEO of The Natural Funeral, an end-of-life doula, a hospice volunteer, and a grief facilitator. Mike's journey in end-of-life care started during his high school years as a cemetery laborer and apprentice at a family-owned funeral home in Medfield, Massachusetts. This experience laid the foundation for a lifelong dedication to supporting individuals and families during poignant and transformative moments.

Annalouiza (00:34.135)
Over the years, Mike has served hundreds of patients during their final stage of life and accompanied many of them at the time of their passing through his work as a hospice volunteer and end-of-life doula. These deeply moving experiences have enriched his understanding of the profound impact of presence and compassion during life's most sacred transitions. 

Each of his life experiences have shaped Mike preparing him to lead the natural funeral home. Driven by a passion for improving the world, Mike is committed to revolutionizing the funeral industry. He envisions a future where families are empowered with dignified and ecological death care options, aiming to enhance the natural funeral's impact on our planet and communities. Welcome, Mike. Good to see you.

Mike Reagan (01:29.048)
Thank you. Yeah, it's wonderful to be here. It's good to see you both. Yeah.

Wakil (01:28.89)
It's great to have you. We usually start with the same question just to get going and just to ask you when you first became aware of death.

Mike Reagan (01:38.903)
Yeah. Well, I guess that would be with my work at the cemetery. I was 15 years old, started as a laborer there as one of about 20 kids that got a job during spring break to clean up the cemetery before Memorial Day. And then at the end of that work effort, they kept three of us on for the summer and I got chosen as one. So and then I, I ended up working there and at the funeral home for the next seven years during school breaks until I graduated college. 

Annalouiza (02:19.073)
Wow, that is so cool.

Wakil (02:20.014)
Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us a little more about that experience?

Mike Reagan (02:25.002)
Yeah, was so it started at the cemetery and I did everything from, you know, rake leaves to mow lawns to dig graves. was cheaper to to pay the kids to dig the graves than it was to hire a backhoe from the highway department. And and I appreciated, know, a good paying job. So but not long after I started the cemetery, the superintendent of the cemetery was also the local undertaker.

Hhe liked my work ethic and said, any chance you're interested in coming to the funeral home before you start your work day at the cemetery and you can wash and wax the cars. And I said, absolutely. I was a young kid wanting to make money. And, and then I remember one day I was, I was waxing a car and in the garage where we did that, it was adjacent to the embalming room and where they also did autopsies.

And and he was testing me. He said, do me a favor and get the Phillips head screwdriver out of the it's on the shelf in the embalming room. And I went in and there was a young man, probably 20 years old, who was someone we took into our care from the local prison. And he had been stabbed many times and he had just undergone an autopsy. 

And and so there he was spread open on on the autopsy table and after about five minutes, my boss said, Hey, you okay in there? And I and I said, Yeah, this is so cool. And I you know, and he's like, you passed the test. Okay. And then and then it wasn't more than a couple of weeks where he had me in Boston, getting licensed as as an apprentice under him. 

Wakil (03:58.873)
Hahaha.

Annalouiza (04:11.265)
Hmm.

Mike Reagan (04:18.744)
So yeah, the from that early experience, I believe that who we are as individuals, our souls occupying a physical human body for a period of time. And when our life ends here on earth, our soul moves on. And what remains is this beautiful vessel that housed our soul during that time. And it wasn't like I gave it a lot of thought. It was just my natural core belief that just existed. It was kind of like a knowing.

And so I found I didn't find any real discomfort in caring for the bodies of decedents. And I actually found it enjoyable to be present in support of families during the funeral process. And yeah, I would say that was probably my favorite aspect of working at a funeral home was was just being present and supporting families during that difficult time.

Wakil (05:16.73)
Yeah, very nice, yeah.

Annalouiza (05:17.719)
That is so beautiful because it is kind of foundational as to where you started and here you are. you know, so my question, like death was there throughout these formative school years. And then what happened in the middle and how did you get to where you're at now?

Mike Reagan (05:38.028)
Yeah, so I almost went into the Catholic seminary right out of college. I loved the life that the Dominican fathers who taught at my college, I loved their lifestyle. But upon the advice of my parents and some priest friends of mine, they both said, well, why don't you go get a taste of the working life before you commit to a life of a you know, celibacy and poverty, you know, and obedience, which would be the case if I became a Catholic, know, Dominican priest. 

And so I did, I went off to the, I got a job in the tech industry and did that for four years and had a wonderful ride there and got exposure to a really high growth company in the late 80s. But I kept feeling drawn back into a life of service. And so I left the tech industry, went into the Catholic seminary, stayed for six months, and then decided, due to more issues tied to theology than lifestyle, I chose to leave. 

And then I re-entered the tech industry. I was there for a total of 31 years before I felt called to move on to something that was closer to my heart space and what really fulfilled me. So in 2017, I left the cybersecurity industry and became a, it of took early retirement and became a hospice volunteer. And I found it to be the most rewarding work I've ever done. It filled my heart every day and it's been wonderful. 

And then to your point, what Kea, like, you know, to, to, maybe it was you Annalouisa who said, you know, to come back around full circle. I look back on my life and the opportunities that have been presented in my end of life service work. And I see the tapestry that was, that's been woven. You know, don't see it at the time. you just see individual stitches, right? But now I can say, yeah, this all makes sense. 

Annalouiza (08:00.919)
Right? You're like, whoo-hoo!

Wakil (08:02.389)
Right,

Mike Reagan (08:29.752)
And it was even further sort of validated when my buddy Seth Vidal, whom I met at a mindfulness training course for hospice volunteers back in 2017, he approached me a little over a year ago and said, Mike, and Seth was one of the founders of the natural funeral. He was here when the doors opened and he said, look, we've got this really amazing offering that we can take nationwide. And that's called a terramation or natural organic reduction. at the time, I think there were seven states in which it was legal. It's now legal in 12 states. And I expect by the end of next year, it'll be legal in another eight to 10 states. there's this green movement happening. 

And Seth said, Mike, we got this awesome technology and we can grow it across the country, but I need someone to help me run the company. And so he invited me to join the natural funeral as the CEO and tying back into that tapestry story or analogy, my business experience can come into play and be coupled with my experience in end of life care. And it's just a beautiful coming together of skill sets and experiences to help bring natural death care to the country and the world. And so it's exciting. Yeah.

Annalouiza (09:39.467)
So beautiful. Yeah.

Wakil (09:37.592)
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's so it's, I'm just sort of over here laughing because I had a 30 year, career in cybersecurity. And when I retired, yeah, we do. And when I retired, I started doing hospice work and then, know, then I went to seminary and I met Annalouisa and here we are. Yeah, we should talk about that sometime. I know. know. Pretty funny.

Mike Reagan (09:48.046)
no kidding. Okay. We're talk offline. Yeah.

Annalouiza (09:49.746)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (09:56.354)
Wow, OK. Uh-huh. OK. Well, peas in a pod, That's great. Yeah.

Annalouiza (09:58.451)
Yes, yes.

Annalouiza (10:06.679)
It's beautiful. I love it. I do love that tapestry.

Wakil (10:08.792)
Yeah, well, you talked a little bit about. Yeah, it's not awesome and it's awesome to like step back. Like you said, step back and look at it and go. that's how I got here. I mean, I think.

Mike Reagan (10:11.576)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (10:17.888)
Yeah, as I do that now, I get, I really just have such a deep sense of gratitude for knowing everything's been unfolding as it's been meant to. And it's been beautiful and yeah, lot of gratitude.

Annalouiza (10:32.993)
Meant to be.

Wakil (10:33.486)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think what inspired me to go to hospice was having dealt with, or lived with my parents when they died. And the hospice people came in and I was like, my goodness, these are angels. I want to do that. So when I had the time again, just thought, it's good to jump in and do this. So I had a wonderful time. And then I worked as a volunteer hospice chaplain during seminary as my internship for seminary. So that was pretty cool. Anyway we want to keep going. It's so fascinating. Can you tell us a little more about the natural funeral and what kind of work they do, what kind of work you're involved in there?

Mike Reagan (11:19.576)
Sure, yeah. So the natural funeral was started here in Boulder County, Colorado to offer natural death care to folks at the end of life. is a...

Wakil (11:39.546)
We'll start that one again when he comes back.

Annalouiza (11:41.919)
Yeah. What I love is his language. I resonate with how he speaks. I'm like he is kind of like peas in a pod here with us.

Wakil (11:52.266)
I know, it's kind of funny. He mentioned having had a really beautiful experience where he's helping family and they were so, they said afterwards, it's so wonderful to feel unconditional love from a man because they had been abused by men and to have somebody come in and just, you know, demonstrate that a male does have the capacity and capability of being loving and caring really made a difference for them.

And I said, yeah, that totally fits with how my life has been. So it's been one time after another, opportunity to say, not all men are stalkers. 

Annalouiza (12:30.687)
Yeah. Well, to flip the narrative. Yeah. Right. To like re redo the circuitry of our collective that sometimes men are dangerous. But in fact, here you are. Right. Welcome back.

Mike Reagan (12:43.774)
Sorry, guys. So sorry. Yeah. So you had asked, yeah. So the natural funeral was originally started as, with a mission to provide natural death care options to the Boulder community and the greater Boulder community. And that's evolved from sort of home funerals and home vigils to natural death care. We never do any embalming, but then evolving to different disposition options that are more eco-friendly. That includes green burial, water cremation, and then terramation, which is our fastest growing disposition option. And terramation evolved, its legal name is natural organic reduction.

And that's when a body of a decedent is transformed into regenerative living soil. And that's a process that we have honed. Mother Nature created it, right? And if a person's body were buried, it just has a green burial. So no embalming, no big metal casket, you know, just a green burial is performed, it would take on average about 20 years for that body, usually with the exception of the bones, to transform and be one with the soil. And all the beautiful elements that comprised our bodies can become one with the soil and then feed new life. And our process of terramation performs that in two to four months.

It actually, the process is complete after between 28 and 33 days, and then there's a curing period for that soil before the soil is then returned to a family. And it's quite a shift in terms of environmental impact from conventional funerals where people get pumped with toxic chemicals and formaldehyde to preserve them.

If you think about it, our bodies are comprised of the same elements that the trees and the plants and other animals are comprised of. 

Wakil (15:33.835)
Exactly, yeah.

Mike Reagan (15:51.43)
And we have the opportunity to return that vessel and all the goodness of it to support new growth and new life. But conventional approaches would sort of destroy that opportunity. So the natural funerals created a a teramation vessel network, which is a set of vessels in which teramation is performed and all the supporting equipment. And we are deploying those across the country for funeral homes and crematory operators that want to offer terramation to their communities. it's a way for existing funeral homes and crematory operators to address the growing demand for green funeral options, while at the same time sort of providing them an opportunity to grow their business in their local region because more and more people are hopping on the green bandwagon. And it's absolutely a gift to see that movement flourish. And we're happy to be part of it. Yeah.

Wakil (16:38.274)
Right? Yeah, that's so great. Yeah.

Annalouiza (16:40.289)
I am so excited for this. Yeah, I think that a lot more people are learning about it. And I keep hearing it in conversations with how they just kind of like got it peripherally and are interested in learning more. So I think you're right where you need to be. Yeah.

Mike Reagan (16:53.3)
Yeah. thank you. Yeah.

Wakil (16:57.722)
We got to go to our local one. I'm in Washington state, which is one of the states that has that. got to go. We had a conference here. We got to go tour one of the places here that does that. And I got a little button that says, please compost me. I've had many comments on it.

Mike Reagan (17:03.688)
OK. Yeah.

Mike Reagan (17:10.164)
Great, yeah.
Nice. That's good. Good. I love that. Yeah.

Annalouiza (17:14.77)
Yeah. I did a tour. I did a tour here in the Arvada place that you and Seth have put together. And I love that you opened it up once a month for families to go and sit with their, would we still say decedents? Decedents? Decedents at that point? That's so cool.

Mike Reagan (17:25.608)
Yeah, yep. Decedents, Actually, yeah. Yeah, we actually open it up once a month for the general public to come see what we're doing. We want to educate people and let them know what other options are available. And to see firsthand what that regenerative living soil looks like at the end of the process, it's really, it's powerful and informative for people. We will provide families whose loved ones are in our care going through that terrramation process, we'll facilitate visitations for them any number of times during that period. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, thank you, yeah.

Annalouiza (18:13.873)
Outside of those. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Wakil (18:16.922)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Annalouiza (18:20.619)
So with this new green and ecological kind of opening of our psyches in the world, right? What are the challenges that you are seeing or hearing or feeling around any of this?

Mike Reagan (18:37.104)
Yeah, you know, I say I think the biggest challenge is awareness. When when we have the chance to explain what terrramation is, ninety nine percent of the time, the response is that just makes sense. You know, I mean, I the way I explain it is we we live our lives in in in sort of cooperation between our bodies and this beautiful biome of other living beings that coexist in our bodies and they support our immune system. You think of gut health, right? There's this back healthy bacteria that lives in us and allows us to thrive while we're alive. And when we die, that sort of biome gets changed.

The next phase of development for that bacteria is to multiply and continue to benefit from what our body can offer them and to work towards continuation and extended life. And if we allow our bodies to be terramated, we get transformed into soil that then fosters new life.

If we go down the conventional path of asking to be embalmed, it immediately kills all of that beautiful bacteria that up until that point holds this huge potential to foster new life. And then we end it. 

Wakil (20:19.322)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Reagan (20:31.102)
And so I think when people come to view things, not from a conventional lens, the way things have always been done, but rather what really it would make the most sense to continue giving. And that's why I said most people say, well, gosh, you're right. That just makes sense. 

Wakil (20:39.862)
Right, yeah.

Annalouiza (20:41.46)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (20:59.186)
And then if you look at it from the environmental perspective, each termination process sequesters just over a half a ton of carbon. And a flame cremation or traditional burial
generates about a half a ton. Actually, no, it's about 500 pounds of CO2, a little more than that for traditional burial. So the environmental swing can be significant. So yeah.

Wakil (21:15.194)
That's so great. It seems like, you if we thought about it that way, we could consider it a pro-life activity, right? Yeah, exactly.

Mike Reagan (21:21.864)
Yeah, there you go. That's a different angle in pro life. I like that. Yeah, yeah, that's good. yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (21:22.805)
Yeah! Yeah! Yeah. the life that keeps on giving, right?

Wakil (21:30.81)
Yeah, yeah. What do you think would help support that, support you, but support people doing this work or support learning more about it? What kind of things would help?

Mike Reagan (21:42.344)
Well, there's a lot of effort afoot out there. Just seeing the speed at which natural organic reduction is being proposed in state legislatures, it's really a wonderful sign. Get out and support your state legislature in passing a law that allows for natural organic reduction.

Again, it's only legal in 12 states today. I expect we'll be closer to 20 by the end of 2025. But if it's not legal in your state, I would encourage you to talk to your local legislators to make it legal. 

Wakil (22:19.29)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Reagan (22:35.786)
It just makes sense. And foster dialogue about it. Let's get the conversation going. We don't need to latch on to the past and to traditions that may have been just bad decisions.
But certainly for the earth and in terms of missing an opportunity to allow the continuation of life.

Wakil (22:43.416)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's it's it is, you even even though you keep saying the word traditional, it's only been traditional for a couple hundred years. Yeah, yeah. So we want to go back. Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:44.055)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (22:51.304)
You're right. Yeah. No, spot on. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:51.785)
Yeah, not even that long. I mean, this is actually the traditional way, right?

Annalouiza (22:59.105)
Yeah, as I was going to say, it's like, think the embalming piece ended up becoming part of the Civil War, like, you know, the bodies being transported to back to their families. And that was what was needed to hold that sacred space for people. And then we kept it because it made money, you know, and it's like, wait, like, we don't need to keep doing this. Yeah.

Mike Reagan (23:15.08)
Yeah, yeah, right. And it makes a lot of money. yeah. But you know what I mean? The natural organic reduction also offers funeral homes the opportunity to continue to thrive as a business, but to do so in a more eco-friendly manner and in a way that serves families in a very different way. yeah, one doesn't have to be lost to support

Wakil (23:22.094)
Yes, indeed, indeed.

Mike Reagan (23:44.842)
the growth of another, you know? And I think more some forward thinking funeral homes and crematory operators are understanding that to be the case. So there are TerraCare partners. Yeah. Yeah.

Wakil (23:54.754)
Yeah, yeah. Hey, may I continue?

Annalouiza (24:02.039)
So, what frightens you about the end of life?

Mike Reagan (24:07.934)
I really don't have any fear about end of life. I, it was interesting. I, when I became a hospice volunteer seven years ago, one of the exercises in our hospice training course was the, we were asked to take 15 minutes and write down a list of all the things you feel like you need to accomplish before you die.

And, you know, some folks are writing feverishly. And when we came to share a list, I kind of shyly acknowledged I don't have a list. You know, I'm OK. You know, I'm like, you know, would I I like to go to Nepal? I would. I would love to go. But, you know, would I would I like to jump out of a plane again? Yeah, I would. But no, I don't. You know.

Wakil (24:50.688)
I'm good.

Annalouiza (24:51.607)
hahahaha

Wakil (25:04.622)
Hahaha.

Mike Reagan (25:06.41)
Would I like to be there for my four kids' Yeah, I would, but I don't feel like I need to. I don't feel like that has to be the... I'm comfortable that my life will play out the way it's meant to, 

Annalouiza (25:16.757)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Reagan (25:36.018)
And I'm okay to be called home whenever I am. And I don't mean to say that flippantly or in an insensitive way. There are a lot of people that are very afraid at end of life. I, in fact, there's one story of a woman I served as a hospice volunteer who was very afraid. Would you like to share that? was, 

Wakil (25:49.082)
Yes, please.

Annalouiza (25:49.099)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (26:05.354)
Yeah, so I was working at the Hospice Care Center where I volunteer and I usually ask if there's anyone that's actively dying and if there's more than one, I ask if there's any, if any one of those actively dying patients are alone. And this night there was a woman that was alone. And so I entered her room and I found her rigid as can be. I could tell she was so tense and her eyes were darting back and forth and her breathing was labored. I could just tell she was absolutely petrified. 

And my typical process that I go through when I enter a room to serve a patient is I'll pause at the door and, say a silent prayer to be a channel of peace for this individual in whatever way that may manifest. And I check also check at the door, any preconceived notions of what I think I ought to do to serve. 

Wakil (26:56.57)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Reagan (27:05.382)
And I just allow the situation to unfold and for her. And then I go and I'll sit at their bedside and I'll usually take their hand and I'll introduce myself to them, whether they're responsive or not. And and then I just sit quietly with them. And on this night, I just felt compelled not to sit, but to stand. And so I stood. So I felt compelled to stand at her bedside. And so I held her left hand and my left hand. And then I used my right hand and I just gently stroked the top of her head. 

And I looked into her eyes and I silently just conveyed to her. I just felt this overwhelming sense of love and I conveyed to her, you are so loved. You are so loved. And she looked up at me and she completely relaxed and she took her last breath. But that was a woman who was alone, who was afraid to let go. She didn't know what she was supposed to do. She didn't know how to navigate these waters of end of life. 

And in that situation, very similar to many other situations, I've witnessed that when people at the end of life can truly surrender to knowing that they're loved and that they are surrounded by unconditional love, it offers an unprecedented sense of peace for them and allows them to let go and transition.

And that was, it was beautiful. It was able to happen for that woman that night. And I felt incredibly privileged to serve in that way. Yeah.

Wakil (29:32.41)
That's so beautiful. It's such a sacred moment. Thank you for sharing that.

Mike Reagan (29:35.117)
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Annalouiza (29:36.245)
And thank you for being there for all the folks too, because, you know, it's an important work.

Wakil (29:39.14)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (29:42.125)
Yeah, although when I left my tech job to go do hospice volunteer work, had a young guy approach me and say, Mike, I think it's so great that you're doing this to give back. And you know, and I'm like, Mark, let me tell you, I'm not doing it to give back. I'm doing it because it brings me joy. I'm actually quite selfish in that regard. 

Annalouiza (30:02.835)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wakil (30:02.852)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (30:10.624)
So I'm not doing it. Please don't don't misread the situation. I do it because it brings me joy. Yeah. And if I didn't, if it didn't bring me joy, I probably wouldn't do it. Yeah.

Annalouiza (30:17.877)
Yeah, I, I get that question a lot too. And it's interesting because when I'm with folks at the end of life, and I leave that space, I do feel a lighter beingness,

Wakil (30:18.009)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Reagan (30:47.193)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (30:47.927)
Like a little joy, a little, I don't know, just, I feel light. I feel great. And most people make the assumption that being anywhere near anyone who's transitioning will automatically create like darkness or depression or morbidity or and what I say to them is like, I don't think I've had a single situation where I walked out of there feeling anything but just joy in the presence of the divine just holding this whole space. I'm like, like, yeah.

Mike Reagan (31:00.461)
Yeah, yeah, you're right. I think it allows us to align with our higher selves and to be aware of that light that connects us all. I remember sitting with one guy in the care center again, he wasn't actively dying that day, though he died I think three days later. But I remember walking into his room and he had been a hermit for probably the last decade of his life. He had a big tumor on the side of his face and it was oozing. It was a it was a challenging dynamic for him and he was really embarrassed by it. 

Wakil (31:44.346)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (31:49.633)
Yes.

Mike Reagan (31:55.885)
You know, again, those that human frailty that has us worrying about what people are thinking. And and when I entered his room, he pulled this handkerchief over his his tumor and I introduced myself and I offered to do comfort touch on him, which is like gentle acupressure on the hands and feet. And I told him, I said, look, if you're covering up that tumor for my benefit, don't worry about it. I really don't care. And he's like, seriously? I'm like, yeah, it doesn't bother me at all. He's like, okay. So he let the handkerchief drop. And as I was doing comfort touch on him, I could see he started to relax.

And in that relaxation and in that realization that he was unconditionally loved, I'm not there to judge. I'm not, I'm just there to, you know, to be with them and to serve. 

Annalouiza (32:28.725)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Reagan (32:51.823)
That gave him permission to be relaxed and to then think about some things that the stress of being in the care center and thinking about death and, you know, what hadn't allowed him to. By the time I got to his feet, he shared with me that he had remembered being a three-year-old on his tricycle in his driveway back in Iowa. And I said, wow. And he said, yeah, it's vivid. And I remember seeing the sun coming up over the trees. And I remember thinking to myself, I used to be part of that light.

Wakil (33:13.646)
Wow.

Mike Reagan (33:14.815)
And, you know, and yeah, it and so I let that hang there for a minute. And then I said, can I ask you a question? He said, sure. And I said, do you think you were really separated from the light at that time or was it just your perception as a as a three year old? And he thought and he's like. I think it was just my perception at the time. 

So and here he is, you know, a couple of days away from dying with with the opportunity to reflect on his life and to remember that time of connection and to then be able to make the tie between that experience and his current state right now, knowing he's still connected. 

Annalouiza (33:48.311)
Mm.

Wakil (34:02.5)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (34:13.867)
And I can't help but think that it brought him some greater peace as he entered that final stage. And I think what fostered that was an awareness that he was loved unconditionally and to feel that sense. And it's amazing how often the experience of unconditional love can open up our own hearts to realize our connection with others and everything that's around us. And I think that's a gift that is available to everyone.

Wakil (34:17.508)
Yes.

Mike Reagan (34:40.205)
That's either at the end of life, supporting someone at the end of life, or just in our everyday interaction with others to the extent that we can understand how we're all one and part of a single light. It opens up opportunities for us all.

Wakil (35:01.018)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (35:01.371)
It really does. And, you know, thank you so very much for sharing that story. 

Mike Reagan (35:06.03)
Yeah.

Wakil (35:16.89)
Thanks.

Annalouiza (35:28.353)
And what I want to just tell anyone who's out there listening is like this, you know, be at ease, be like open up, right? Radical surrender to the light, like because it not only fosters a well-being in the person who is care given potentially. But it also allows there not to be shame or distress with the person who is actively dying. think that I too have seen that when that like the person is dying, but they're trying to take care of everybody around them. And you know, nobody is giving permission. Nobody's letting that love that flow happen. So, you know, anyone listening, like just soften your heart, even if you've never done this, just soften the heart and just be present. You don't have to say anything different. You don't like just

Mike Reagan (35:40.067)
Right.

Wakil (35:40.088)
Right, yeah.

Mike Reagan (35:57.079)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Wakil (35:57.784)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that you like what you you said, sense of just being open to, you know, not coming in with any preconceptions. I think it's also interesting to note that the people we've talked to who've had near death experiences say over and over again that what they experienced in that space was total unconditional light and love. So that's where you're going. You might as well start appreciating it now.

Annalouiza (35:58.155)
Just be there. It's like, that's the gift.

Mike Reagan (36:22.743)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. I love that. Yeah, it's and it's available to all of us right now. 

Annalouiza (36:36.395)
Yes it is, yeah.

Wakil (36:37.7)
Yeah.

Mike Reagan (36:52.429)
And the absence of that oftentimes ends up being a gate to peace or to release, to surrendering, to allowing that transition to happen. So. Yeah, it's heightened at the end of life as well.

Annalouiza (36:55.681)
Yeah.

Wakil (36:55.832)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Mike Reagan (37:21.557)
I have one other story if you've got time. Do we have another? Yeah. So there's a very similar setup here. It was at the care center. There was a woman who was actively dying. She was unresponsive. She had labored breathing. She was in her early to mid 50s and I believe she was dying from ALS. I never met her before, but I went and I sat with her.And for those folks that are unresponsive, usually, after I introduce myself to them and I take their hand, I silently communicate to them that I'm just a soul, just like them, and I'm here to accompany them on the final leg of their journey and support them in any way that I can. I do that with my eyes closed and I keep them closed. And I'll typically see in my mind's eye, myself walking with this person in that perspective is usually from behind. With this woman though, didn't see us walking together. What I saw was her on the other side of her body raising her hands and looking at me saying, yes, yes. 

Annalouiza (38:12.598)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil (38:12.622)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
my god. Wow.

Mike Reagan (38:21.783)
And then she took her last breath and passed. I don't know what transpired there, but I suspect it had something to do with her being accompanied by with unconditional love by someone else and her somehow understanding that and then realizing, OK, I can let go. And she did. Yeah. 

Wakil (38:44.494)
Yeah, yeah.

Mike Reagan (38:50.017)
And so it's I think that that ends up being a gate that people don't know how to pass through until they can truly surrender with the knowledge that they are unconditionally loved. And it's not just by the person at the bedside or the nurses or family members. It's knowing that we are always surrounded in unconditional love.

Wakil (39:14.798)
Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (39:14.869)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Reagan (39:19.513)
To the extent that we can open our hearts to that reality, it opens a world of possibilities for us all. Not just the dying, but all of us, day in and day out, right?

Wakil (39:27.086)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. So true, so true. Thank you. We always like to check in with folks. And this is kind of for help for us and for our audience to think about or to ask how you resource yourself if you're feeling overwhelmed or if you're getting just tired or, you know, is there something, practices that you have that help you kind of lift up again after a really tough day or really tough experience?

Mike Reagan (39:54.709)
Yeah, well, I kind of like what Analouisa was saying. I get rejuvenated by serving folks at the end of life because it brings me back to an awareness of our connectedness. So I wouldn't say that that work drains me and it's something that I need relief from or care for. It's in the everyday stresses of life with family and work and other things that It's trying to find time to just sort of quiet, to be present. A big helpful go-to for me is gratitude, 

Wakil (40:37.146)
Mm-hmm.

Mike Reagan (40:51.723)
to think about all that I have going in my life. This may sound a little woo-woo, but I truly believe that I'm perpetually supported by this beautiful entourage of spiritual beings that help enlighten me, help realign me, help me get back into alignment with my higher self and the knowledge that we're all one. And so when I get caught up in a spreadsheet or a financial model, it's really helpful to just come back to why are we here? And I believe we're here to love unconditionally and to help others learn how to do that as well. And that's about it. And when we do that, we find beautiful peace and serenity, regardless of what material dynamics may be at play in our lives. So I try and return to that reality.

Wakil (41:31.342)
Yeah. I love that. Yeah.

Wakil (41:45.902)
Yeah, yeah. I love that. It's kind of funny that in a way what you're doing is sort of what we kind of backwards from what we normally think of it. You I got overwhelmed by this work with the end of life, but instead you're going to end of life to lift yourself up. And also just to remember that grace that, yeah, the grace of the, like you said, the surrounding love that's always there. Yeah, that's so beautiful. Beautiful.

Annalouiza (42:13.905)
It is. So yeah, our final piece is. What do you wish we'd asked you?

Mike Reagan (42:20.815)
you know, yeah, I don't, I think you asked some really good questions. I think we've covered some wonderful topics. There's, you know, there's just such a beautiful opportunity for people to, I think you said it, Annalouisa, get comfortable with the idea of being with folks at the end of life and talking about it. And just being open to the reality that the end of life is a transition and allow yourself the privilege and the beautiful opportunity to experience that transition in peace. And you can do that by surrendering to the reality that we're all one, we're all connected and that all will be well. 

Annalouiza (43:56.023)
Okay, would you like to read your poem or do want us to read it or what would you like to do?

Mike Reagan (44:00.404)
Yeah, why don't you guys read it? Sure. Go for it. Yeah.

Annalouiza (44:03.959)
All right. Well, Yep.

Mike Reagan (44:10.366)
And yeah, and my prayer when I enter a room or enter a facility as a hospice volunteer or an end of life doula, my prayer is make me a channel of peace. Yeah, so that's why. And I wear it. I have a St. Francis medal that I wear. 

Wakil (44:28.674)
Yeah, yeah, maybe you should have gone to the Franciscans. You might have been.

Mike Reagan (44:32.168)
I know. Why am I wearing a Saint Dominic? Yeah, that's funny. Yeah.

Annalouiza (44:38.327)
That's great. Well, let's share the prayer of St. Francis with our listeners and each other.

Mike Reagan (44:42.25)
All right.

Annalouiza (44:48.105)
Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Where there is sadness, joy.

O divine master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive. It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. And it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

Wakil (45:43.322)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think that's good by itself. I don't think we need to repeat that one. Thank you. Beautifully done. Such a good reminder.

Mike Reagan (45:43.83)
Great, thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Annalouiza (45:46.231)
So good.

Mike Reagan (45:51.008)
Yeah. No. Thank you, Annalouisa. Yeah.

Annalouiza (45:51.957)
Okay. thank you for that.

Mike Reagan (45:58.742)
Yeah.

Wakil (46:00.282)
Well, thank you again for joining us today. It's been a real privilege. were, when you went away for a minute, we were both just going, my God, what a wonderful guy.

Mike Reagan (46:03.236)
Annalouiza (46:03.572)
Yes.

Mike Reagan (46:08.46)
well, thank you for having me. And thanks for all the wonderful work you both do. I really appreciate it. Yeah, good.