Introducing the Grievers' Library with Pamela Belyea

In this conversation, Pamela Belyea shares her journey through grief after losing six family members in a short span. She discusses the founding of the Griever's Library, a nonprofit that provides grief resources to the community. We explore the importance of being present for those in grief, the role of community support, and the impact of literature on the healing process. Pamela emphasizes the need for compassion and understanding in dealing with loss and how her experiences have shaped her approach to helping others navigate their grief.

She speaks to the importance of children's literature in addressing themes of life and death, particularly in the context of grief. She shares her passion for supporting grieving children through literature and community engagement. 

Pamela Belyea is a licensed architect and co-founder of Seattle’s Gage Academy of Art, where she served as director for 23 years. After losing six family members in 15 months, Pamela channeled her grief into founding the Grievers Library—a volunteer-run bibliotherapy nonprofit providing free grief books to children, teens, and adults through book boxes in and around Seattle. 

The organization’s website also offers unique online resources – “Global,” a directory of grief books available in public libraries worldwide; “EZreads,” a directory of short, meaningful excerpts from grief books; and a list of Crisis Hotlines.

Calling the Grievers Library her “ComPassion Project,” Pamela is dedicated to keeping it refreshingly non-commercial. The library is supported by the generosity of community businesses, donors, and volunteers.

Grievers Library Website
Seattle Times Article
Local Vashon Island newspaper article
Community Quotes of Support

Transcript

Wakil David Matthews (00:03.503)
Hello everybody. We're so glad to have you back. On this episode, we are looking forward to a wonderful conversation with Kilah Storm. Kilah is a writer and puppeteer. She's obsessed with nature and life's big questions. Kilah has created a unique line of puppets made from taxidermy roadkill. How about that?

Annalouiza (00:23.145)
Yeah, I was so excited for this podcast for today. Kilah tells us that these discarded critters are now characters in the world of fluff, a puppet theater that performs retelling of fairy tales. The world of fluff has performed in multiple venues, including the Denver Performing Arts Complex, Planet Five and the Audity and Bizarre Expo in Colorado Springs. As for Kilah.

She is an active member of the Rocky Mountain Puppetry Guild and the Puppeteers of America. Welcome, Kilah.

Wakil David Matthews (00:59.211)
Woohoo!

Kilah Storm (00:59.368)
Thank you! Have a year! Awesome!

Annalouiza (01:02.725)
So excited to have you here.

Kilah Storm (01:05.439)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (01:05.54)
Yeah, we really are. You know, you've been listening to our podcast, you know, we always like to kind of start out. This gives us a way to kind of get to know people a little bit, but to tell us about the first time you were aware of death.

Kilah Storm (01:19.822)
I love this question. I think there should be a normal question that we should ask everyone all the time. Like, ugh, I caught on that this is a question you guys ask often. I was like, I'm gonna start asking people at work. This is great. But it got me thinking. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, but it did. It got me thinking kind of when did that?

Wakil David Matthews (01:26.041)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (01:32.723)
Yeah?

Wakil David Matthews (01:35.105)
Yeah, if they have any good stories, tell them to call us.

Kilah Storm (01:48.502)
relationship start. I really think for most of us, I think it starts with the seasons. You know, I was born in the spring. And not that like I consciously remember, like winter, but I really feel like death and dying really is already there in nature. And that conversation starts then, you know, so I feel like innately, it's always been there. And that was really my first introduction.

Wakil David Matthews (02:08.313)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (02:17.688)
But if I was to say what my very first memory and core memory of death was, it's actually my first memory. When I was two, I was dying. I had asthma. My parents didn't know, and I was having a very serious asthma attack, and they didn't really understand what was happening. And I just remember being so tired and the hell hard it was to be...

breathing and living and just very calmly feeling like just, okay, this is just, I mean, I didn't know as a kid really what was going on either, but yeah, my parents say like when they brought me to the hospital, I mean, everyone was just really calm and nonchalant about the whole thing until a doctor happened to walk by and he recognized something very serious was going on. And it wasn't until hours later he came out and having taken me immediately to the emergency room and

told my parents, we think she's going to live. And my mom just breaking down. She's like, I had no idea. just... So it's a very core memory of just that process of almost dying. And then when I was four, there was a kid in the grade above me who we were kind of friends who had, I believe it was cancer.

Annalouiza (03:19.637)
What?

Wakil David Matthews (03:23.636)
Wow.

Annalouiza (03:25.653)
Wow.

Kilah Storm (03:46.168)
She was young, she was like, I think only five or six, and she died. And my parents, because she and I had been friends, thought it was important I go to the funeral. And that was another very strong memory of like, people die, kids can die. Like it's just because I managed to live. It was a conversation I was having subconsciously right from the beginning.

Annalouiza (04:09.119)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That is so powerful. Wow. And I'm really glad that your parents were aware of the importance of seeing and being at your friend's funeral as a young child. I love that.

Wakil David Matthews (04:11.524)
Yeah, that's early.

Kilah Storm (04:23.19)
Yes, yeah, yeah, it was very important. remember, they weren't sure it was a good idea afterwards, but I am thankful that they did.

Annalouiza (04:33.869)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So those were the first formative memories you have around death and dying. So can you tell me how death has impacted the life of your story? The story of your life. Wow.

Wakil David Matthews (04:47.76)
Either one.

Kilah Storm (04:47.84)
Yeah, no, I think, yeah, yeah, really. I think because of my early relationship with death, it focused me to look at, like, it made me long for stories that were true and real, and weren't afraid to have those conversations. And I consider myself a storyteller. So I just became very hungry for stories.

Annalouiza (04:51.605)
Yeah, both.

Kilah Storm (05:17.41)
that were honest and that were true and that weren't afraid to run away from reality. I I loved, you know, the fairy tales growing up and everything, but I was always hungry for more. growing up, I wanted to be a filmmaker. I wanted to make movies. And so I did end up doing two years of film school. But I realized kind of like in school, I just got a little

frustrated, I guess. also, my parents were, the whole family were very religious. We grew up very, we grew up Baptist and my parents took faith very seriously. So we were, I was the pastor's kid for a long time. They taught in a lot of Christian schools. So they were my teachers and the principals and they, we became missionaries to Brazil. So we got to go do that life for a little bit.

And so I got to see a lot of the world, which was really awesome. But even in religion, there are things I felt like we were a little afraid to talk about different aspects of God. And we weren't comfortable coming to talk about the harder things. And I was longing for that. I was really seeking for that. So...

I went to California to do some, to study for film, and I just remember I got to this point, I was in a summer camp doing film work, and I just remember one night I was just so frustrated, because like we're still skirting away from really having these deeper conversations, and I want, I like, I can learn how to tell stories through movies and film, but if I'm not telling the stories I want to tell, is it going to be worth it?

Annalouiza (06:59.593)
Wow.

Wakil David Matthews (07:09.028)
Hmm.

Kilah Storm (07:11.15)
Ran out of money. I noticed I was on this journey and I went back home. I'm Canadian, so I went back to Canada. And weirdly, my whole family ended up moving to Texas, where my uncle lived. And I was like, you know what? This is such a unique situation. I'm going to try something completely different. I am going to have a dog. I am going to raise rabbits for meat. And I'm going to work at an animal shelter, because this is a whole different dream that I wanted to do.

Wakil David Matthews (07:23.748)
No.

Annalouiza (07:38.889)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (07:40.49)
And it was still in that vein. It's like somehow I knew that was going to help me try and understand what I was missing with this conversation about who God is in this whole conversation about the deeper realities and death and this sort of thing. But I didn't know quite how that was going to come up. But it definitely did. I found an animal shelter I worked at. It was just a little city.

Wakil David Matthews (08:04.439)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (08:07.978)
animal shelter on the border of Arkansas, and it was a very high kill animal shelter. So, so then I really got my feet wet with death with animals. And then on the same level, I was raising rabbits for me, but so taking the life of these rabbits, but wanting to do it in such a sacred way, wanting to honor the life in every way possible.

Annalouiza (08:19.805)
Yes. Wow.

Kilah Storm (08:37.55)
Iksbut made me really want to learn how to preserve hides and not just like after my first time of butchering a rabbit and I got the meats and everything I looked at everything else I had left and I devastated that this beautiful life that I took that would be any waste to it at all and was nope, no I'm not gonna do this if there's going to be waste so I was determined

Wakil David Matthews (08:56.194)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (08:59.577)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (09:03.989)
Mm.

Kilah Storm (09:05.355)
to figure out how I was going to make every part of this animal valuable and worth it. And so yeah, so taught myself how to tan, I was making bone jewelry, I made little characters out of the tails, I mean, I was like a home. But on the flip side, I was at this animal shelter and every day were euthanizing animals and just chucking them in a dumpster. And I was, it was

Annalouiza (09:09.853)
Mm-hmm. my gosh.

Wakil David Matthews (09:14.591)
Hahaha

Kilah Storm (09:32.256)
now I'm having this conversation, right? And it really helped make me the person I am today and bring the world of fluff to where it is now.

Annalouiza (09:40.501)
Yeah. Oh my God, Kilah, I am so grateful that I connected with you because yes, you are one of my clan. So.

Wakil David Matthews (09:40.856)
So great, so great.

Kilah Storm (09:52.622)
I know. I was like, see what you guys are doing. I'm like, my gosh, yes, these people are my people.

Wakil David Matthews (09:53.013)
That's right, that's right.

Annalouiza (09:58.641)
Yes. But once again, I want to I want to pull back a little bit because this is I'm really curious about this. So, you know, we have a lot of hospice and death positive support for folks, for families who have somebody who is dying or has died. You know, we value human as the sacred highest, you know, possible care. Right. We I had my family and I had we had to euthanize our cat last year and I had the most amazing

Wakil David Matthews (09:58.789)
Exactly.

Kilah Storm (10:20.088)
Yes.

Annalouiza (10:28.405)
vet come out and be with us for hours. And this person knew how to hold that sacred space because you the kids like we had friends of the kids come over. We just like laid around in the kitchen. All the pets were around us and she even said she's like I've never been in a home where it's been so positive and and she's and she's like you know I do this all day long. I go to people's homes and I euthanize her pets.

and it's always very stressful. It's very hard. And I could see like in that moment, I had this like, like, like an awareness that she struggles with this pain as well. Right. So what I just I'm curious, like, how are people in shelters who have to do this day in day out? How are they doing? How could you do it? Is there any kind of conversation about what this process is actually doing to our

Wakil David Matthews (11:10.244)
Sure.

Kilah Storm (11:19.864)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (11:27.231)
to our psyches, right, our souls.

Kilah Storm (11:28.302)
Oh yeah, and I can't speak to shelters of all around the country. I can only speak to the one where I was at. Yeah, there's definitely places that are doing this much better than the one I was at. After I left, it had a huge reorganization and anything, but it was rough. mean, the people who were hired to work at this facility were...

Wakil David Matthews (11:29.912)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (11:33.735)
Right, right, everything's different.

Kilah Storm (11:54.798)
We had a lot of free labor from the prisons and just a lot of folks with some pretty rough pasts who were hired for this job. I mean, it's not really something that most people are looking to do. Clean cows and use the nice animals. This is your job. That's a lot of... That's hard. But the guy who was really in charge of it, he had a big heart. He was a dad. And there were times I would find him just...

Annalouiza (12:09.609)
Right, right, right, right.

Kilah Storm (12:23.594)
and weeping because he had made a connection with one of these animals and it's a the pet's just a hard one to find a home for and he knew it but he still got connected and then you have to euthanize it and I feel I felt like the fact that we weren't able to honor the pet in any sacred way it was that was what was really hard there wasn't enough time to sit with the animals it wasn't until I was

Wakil David Matthews (12:47.15)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (12:47.849)
Right, right, right.

Kilah Storm (12:52.564)
working with them for quite a few years that I got involved in the euthanization process where they came to me asking for questions on which pets to be euthanizing. But and then for me to be part of the process. But it's rough. And I think we tell ourselves things like, well, pets don't really they don't understand. They're they're just, you know, they're we love them, but they're they're simpler and they, you know, we and so

The great thing about the South is that there is so much life. I was blown away coming from Canada. Just everything grows. There is so much life everywhere. The problem with the South is there's life everywhere. And... Yes. mean, there are days when get 50 pets a day and you just... There's just no room. There's no time. And there are times I just remember like euthanizing these pets.

Wakil David Matthews (13:30.5)
Yeah

Wakil David Matthews (13:34.884)
Right, they take it for granted. Yeah, yeah

Annalouiza (13:37.673)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (13:51.374)
with other pets in the kennels. I shot down one day and I really watched and I'm gonna watch a few times a sick puppy amongst the healthy ones because there's no other place to put the puppy so they just do it and when I walk away and the pet slowly passes and in a way that's nice because they're with their other pets. I'm yes, yeah so in a way they're not isolated and doing it alone and that was that was nice.

Annalouiza (14:10.463)
Right, with a family.

Kilah Storm (14:17.464)
But I'm watching those other pets and they are making those connections. are watching this pet that was in connection with someone, one of us, and they're seeing him go. they are, and the way they interacted with us after that situation was very different. And I went, my gosh, no, they are aware. They totally understand. I mean, I had a whole new view on animals with that.

Annalouiza (14:42.653)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me really yearn for chaplaining animals and the people who work in all kinds of vets. you know, it really, I mean, like what Keelan was talking about, if we could do it for free and we could still like, you know, keep the roof and food on our table. Like I would be doing that for that support. And it's such a needed place. Right. Like it's so needed.

Wakil David Matthews (14:47.46)
Yeah, yeah.

Kilah Storm (14:55.848)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (14:57.411)
Yeah, that...

Kilah Storm (15:05.248)
Thank

Wakil David Matthews (15:08.43)
Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, Yeah, it reminded me of we have a farm north of us that we own a little part of and released to our friends. Our friends have a really beautiful program up there of teaching kids farm skills and wilderness awareness skills and that kind of thing. Archery is really fun. And I go up as their elder sometimes, right? But they really, they're just really

Kilah Storm (15:11.308)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Wakil David Matthews (15:37.477)
cool, wonderful people. And Alexia, who was the first who first bought the farm 15 years ago or something, has been, you know, doing this work. And of course, they have chickens and they have rabbits, have ducks, and they harvest them sometimes, right. And after I've been with hanging out with them a little bit, they said, Hey, we're going to do a chicken harvest, you want to come and help? And I said, first they went, hell no. But then

Kilah Storm (16:04.974)
You

Wakil David Matthews (16:06.882)
But then I stopped and thought, well, I know chicken doesn't just show up in plastic wrap, and I really need to be a part of this and know what this is. And so I did go and I've done since then, I've harvested rabbits and ducks and chickens and a goat and a big goat. was like deer sized goat. Yeah, but and it's really changed my perspective, right? And I recommend it to anyone.

Kilah Storm (16:29.102)
Wow.

Wakil David Matthews (16:36.074)
And Alexia has a YouTube of how she kills a chicken, Harvestes a chicken. And she does this, and every time we did this, we do the same thing. We cuddle whoever we were going to be taking. And it wasn't just a quick chop and go. It cuddling and spending time and singing to them and praying with them and then very calmly and very carefully for the chickens just slates their throat.

And this YouTube shows her doing this whole thing. And after she put it up, the person who helped her put it up says, wow, we've getting thousands and thousands of hits. About half of them think you're horrible for doing such a thing. And about half of them want to marry you. So anyway, I always recommend to people take a look at that because it's such a sweet and well, just like you're talking about that such a deep connection to the animal.

praise and honouring of the animal and recognition of the animal as a spirit that needs to be very respected and cared for. thanks for that reminder. That is a good story. Yeah, thank you. So tell us more about what you're doing now, your current work, and maybe if you do this, how it relates to connecting with end of life too.

Annalouiza (17:43.349)
Yes.

Kilah Storm (17:54.242)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (17:59.886)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I'm working at the animal shelter, you know, I'm getting this juxtaposition here. And yeah, I'm really trying to, so I've been harvesting these rabbits and my process was, yeah, when it was time for the killing process, I would release my rabbits out into this field with grass and they just get to run and frolic.

Wakil David Matthews (18:05.432)
Heh.

Wakil David Matthews (18:27.236)
Hmm.

Kilah Storm (18:29.406)
And because they're very, they've been interacting with humans all time, they're not really nervous of me. And then I would just come up to them while they're still chewing on grass and just very, very fast, right? And then I was tanning the hides and like I said, doing all these things, but I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do with it, but I love stories. And as a kid, always, I always had stuffed animals. My whole, my siblings could tell you about

Wakil David Matthews (18:29.753)
hehe

Wakil David Matthews (18:39.853)
Right.

Kilah Storm (18:58.382)
the crazy stories and the characters I have with these stuffed animals and I was getting better and better at tanning hides and that sort of thing and being able to keep ears and little noses and everything and I was like, why did you say I made stuffed animals out of these? I could be like a realistic animals. Terrible idea. They look terrifying. I was not good at it at all. I was like, okay, no, that was not

Wakil David Matthews (19:01.229)
You

Wakil David Matthews (19:14.148)
haha

Kilah Storm (19:26.894)
it. And then we left. We moved. I married my husband and we moved to Colorado for many different reasons. And I've still got all of these hides lying around. And I had started to think, what if I had made them into puppets? And that way I could tell stories with them and they're not animals, but I could still tell stories.

And there was a puppetry guild here in Colorado Springs that I got connected to. And they invited me out to what they call Puppet Slam. And a Puppet Slam is really where you bring the wackiest, the weirdest, just the craziest things. You do five minute shows and it's just meant to be this bam bam bam crazy little thing that all these different types of puppeteers come up and you just get to display your work.

like well if I'm gonna try this out I'm just gonna this is the place to do it so I did a little story the there's a Grim Fairy tale called the sausage the bird and I think it's like the mole or something and so I switched around to the rabbit the sausage and the bird and I had a little taxonomy bird on the stick

Wakil David Matthews (20:38.66)
Yeah

Kilah Storm (20:45.55)
And I had my little hex-thorny rabbit, which I still have. And this is him right here. He looks kind of like he's going a little rough because he's my first one. this is Peter Rott. Yes. And so I did a little show. It's about these three characters who live in a tree. And they decide they're going to reverse their roles. And the sausage is no longer making the soup anymore. He's going outside. And he's going to.

Annalouiza (20:53.397)
What?

So cute!

Wakil David Matthews (20:58.904)
You

Kilah Storm (21:13.684)
have to collect the sticks, which is what the rabbit does. And the sausage goes out when he gets eaten by a dog. I had my live dog actually run out on stage and eat the sausage. And so I had so many people love it that I was convinced in that moment I had something like, okay, this, this is it. So I've been writing my whole life, but now I was started writing some puppet shows and then kind of just started looking for opportunities and

Wakil David Matthews (21:16.312)
Okay.

Wakil David Matthews (21:30.232)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (21:42.988)
The people who really wanted something like a text-to-me puppet show were those in AudityCon and the kind of the fringe groups. okay, let's try this out. And yeah, so I got accepted to do one here in the Springs and it was also great reactions, great group of people and started really making

Annalouiza (21:53.919)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (21:54.165)
haha

Annalouiza (21:57.472)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (21:58.081)
Yeah

Kilah Storm (22:12.43)
community. And so that's now kind of what I do. I perform for anyone who is pretty, who's interested and wants me to come out. But yeah, I perform. I still write books and little short stories and things like that that I sell alongside with my my puppets, but I do little YouTube videos and just have a ton of fun with it. mean, yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (22:36.964)
That's great. Yeah. Yeah.

Kilah Storm (22:38.006)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (22:38.203)
It is so amazing. So as you're out in the world, what do you find are the biggest challenges that you face with this kind of arena? In this arena, I guess.

Wakil David Matthews (22:48.182)
Unique.

Kilah Storm (22:48.832)
Yes. I think part of the problem, or not problem, but a challenge is that folks do think of it as like, you're trying to be like a freak show. Like we're trying to be this kind of edgy, kind of, let's make it creepy. And what I love doing with the puppet shows is having the conversations afterwards with folks and then being able to talk about them.

Annalouiza (23:00.309)
you

Wakil David Matthews (23:05.06)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (23:10.771)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (23:11.929)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (23:14.67)
I think everyone gets very excited when they hear, a Texan repuppet show. It's going to be like, but then they don't know what they think it's going to be like, right? Until they see it. yeah, so try to balance this whole, it's, not trying to be a creepy freak show. It's trying to be fun with some Texan repuppets and then, and start having questions and start enticing you to start thinking and looking at death positively.

Annalouiza (23:21.587)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (23:34.547)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (23:39.379)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (23:44.342)
led to so many fantastic conversations, especially with little kids, little girls especially. They love the puppets for some reason. I always invite people to come up later and like talk to the puppets and meet them and shake their hands or pause, I should say. And the little girls rush over. They want to talk about them. They want to talk about them. The boys are the ones that kind of like, ooh, sleepy. But yeah, and it's been really interesting to see who's interested, who wants to have a conversation.

Annalouiza (23:47.901)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (23:48.408)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (23:58.853)
You

Kilah Storm (24:14.52)
but also at Camp V where I also got invited to go out and perform. As much as that Puppet Slam had been a really big turning point for me, Camp V was the next turning point where I had a group of adults who were just so excited about this. And then the conversations we had afterwards was just fantastic. So yeah, but it's getting over that hump of like, this isn't.

just trying to be another creepy thing. Because death in our society has a strong, creepy, let's see.

Annalouiza (24:44.81)
Right.

Wakil David Matthews (24:48.504)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (24:49.0)
Yes. Macabre horror. Yeah. Well, it just occurred to me that maybe the word taxidermy, I mean, because people poke fun at taxidermist, right? Like because it's we always have that like a little bit of a weirdo in some films about the taxidermy guy who does tons of scrolls or whatever. Right. Like I remember that from one of my sitcoms. But, you know, maybe it's that language gene around it because it is a puppet show. It's storytelling and it is death positive.

Wakil David Matthews (24:51.074)
Yeah, exactly.

Kilah Storm (24:58.946)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (25:18.151)
It also just happens to be taxidermy animals. And so maybe this is a puppet show that includes animals who have been alive in the past. Somehow, so that taxidermy doesn't immediately make it the signifier for people.

Kilah Storm (25:31.598)
Wakil David Matthews (25:33.86)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Kilah Storm (25:35.394)
Right, right. I've learned to embrace it. I've also learned don't tell people what you do for two months and then tell them. Make an assumption and you need them to know who you are beforehand. And then, yeah, that's another hurdle I kind of have to jump. But by the time they know me and they're like, yeah, and then I do text the repuppets. mean, puppets in itself can be weird, right? So that also has like a pay a credit bond. Yeah. And then text me these pods too.

Annalouiza (25:40.509)
Yeah!

Wakil David Matthews (25:41.828)
Right, right.

Annalouiza (25:43.175)
Yes. Yes.

Annalouiza (25:48.712)
Yes.

Annalouiza (25:58.441)
Yeah. Connotation, that's a little strange. You're an adult with playing with stuffed animals.

Wakil David Matthews (26:02.456)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (26:04.366)
Yes, exactly. So I've had to learn to embrace who I am and that I all these odd things, but that it can be done in a very positive way and have fun and it doesn't have to be always the creepy, gory, gruesome kind of vibe that we sometimes think.

Wakil David Matthews (26:10.062)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (26:10.28)
Yes.

Annalouiza (26:25.151)
Right. And so do kids ask you about this? specifically about, did, did, this your bunny? Is this your pet?

Wakil David Matthews (26:32.004)
you

Kilah Storm (26:32.685)
Usually they don't even recognize that this thing once had died or is dead. They're like, oh my, it's still alive or whatever. we do have that conversation. Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, no. Like usually with parents actually is where that question really starts coming in. So they're a little like, how did this happen? I my kid messing with the satanic looking creature. Yeah,

Wakil David Matthews (26:49.337)
haha

Annalouiza (26:52.829)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let me just say this. I feel like you're on the cusp of being super famous because when our cat passed last fall, we, me and the kids, we're talking about how to honor the body, Like burying it. My kids were like anti-cremation. But my son was like, I think we should get a taxidermied.

Wakil David Matthews (27:03.37)
Hahaha

Kilah Storm (27:20.588)
Yeah?

Annalouiza (27:20.847)
And that was on the table and we talked about it. I made some phone calls. It's a two year wait to get, yeah. And so we talked to, know, one was like, yes, we could do it. It's a two year wait. You know, this is a cost. You'll have to keep it in your own freezer. And I'm like, it's kind of a big hat. Like, I don't know if I can actually keep it next to the pizza boxes. I mean, I would be open to it. I just didn't know how two years would really, you know, how it would be. So I think that,

Kilah Storm (27:25.762)
I believe it.

Wakil David Matthews (27:26.286)
haha

Wakil David Matthews (27:35.704)
Hehehehehe

Kilah Storm (27:36.43)
Hahaha

Kilah Storm (27:44.706)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (27:47.869)
It's coming. We're starting to see people. I feel like I'm starting to hear people talk about how important it is to do things differently or to do things in a way that is more honors and even silly. know, the taxidermy and your favorite pet is not that like it's I don't know. It's not that macabre, I feel. But maybe it's still it's this 21st century lens that I'm coming through.

Kilah Storm (28:00.312)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (28:07.022)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (28:10.828)
right. I definitely get that question a lot, like will you taxidermy your own pets? I have a dog and I have a hairless cat which is very funny because when you taxidermy or do this puppetry thing, I mean it's the fur right and she has the fur so it's kind of weird that this happened. But I actually won't get my my dog taxidermied into a puppet because like that it's too much of a I know him too well right it's this

Wakil David Matthews (28:11.076)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (28:24.468)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (28:24.932)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (28:36.915)
Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Kilah Storm (28:39.862)
relationship and I'm like I and I know I'd have to do it myself and I don't want to know him in that way but like I have here like this cat I he and I found in a park this cat had been mangled by a dog and when I met him out there in the woods we were like no this is so sad actually was that park where we found him and I was like this is so sad like this I can't have kids finding this half-eaten cat on the on the playground

Annalouiza (28:44.031)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (28:45.538)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (29:07.882)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (29:08.984)
So used to my dog poop bags, pick him up and I'm like, wait, what am I doing? I know what I can do with this guy. And so he was one of my first truly like different puppets and stuff. So yeah, it's fun to make the puppets this way and out of animals who tend to have a very gruesome end. That's kind of where I find my little niche.

Wakil David Matthews (29:14.062)
Yeah

Annalouiza (29:26.536)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (29:27.118)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (29:30.648)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (29:30.771)
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of either a triple or so what I'm seeing right now is like this like grayish black cat, right? Fuzzy face with a little red sweater. Yep. But it kind of also reminds me of some Sesame Street characters. So, you know, not very macabre for me, but certainly I feel like you're honoring this, the passing of this cat in a very sweet way.

Kilah Storm (29:41.226)
Yep, this is like, yep, got a of long hair.

Kilah Storm (29:50.474)
Yes, that's piece of inspiration.

Wakil David Matthews (29:50.604)
Hehe.

Wakil David Matthews (30:00.793)
Yeah, yeah.

Kilah Storm (30:00.963)
That's the end.

Wakil David Matthews (30:03.48)
Yeah, I love that idea that even though it is really honoring death in a way that we notice that we accept it and we honor the animal that has died by making it into something that entertains, entertains ourselves and entertains each other. have you ever?

Annalouiza (30:20.071)
Yeah. Yeah. And I also want to point out that, let me just say this way. I also want to say to the listeners, like, we don't all have to do this. honoring a mangled cat that you find or a bird, you could also bury it. You could also like pick it up and dispose it. I mean, I feel like the worst part for me is seeing an animal that's just decomposing. People are walking past it. Everybody's ignoring it.

Kilah Storm (30:30.497)
No!

Wakil David Matthews (30:30.637)
All

Wakil David Matthews (30:37.838)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Annalouiza (30:48.797)
I find that that's like traumatic for me. So I definitely pick up dead animals with my dog poop bags and like take them to my compost bin and just leave them in my compost. Occasionally I do have, there was a hawk that passed away in the park and I felt so bad. I feel really, really horrible about this hawk, but he's buried in the front yard too because I felt like I wanted to do ceremony for him or them. And it just mattered to me. I did not want to just put him in the composter.

Wakil David Matthews (30:51.47)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (31:12.132)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (31:18.505)
So there's a lot of ways to honor a dead body. It doesn't have to be one way. This is just an opportunity, one of the many opportunities. Okay, so what were you gonna say?

Kilah Storm (31:22.091)
Absolutely.

Kilah Storm (31:26.198)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (31:29.69)
I was gonna ask if you have ever done this show at like hospice or end of life, bedsides or anything like that. I wonder how that would be. Yeah.

Kilah Storm (31:37.99)
But I'd love to. My shows are... Yeah, like the show I'll be doing at the Next Oddity Con is based on Baba Yaga. And I don't know if you know the story of Baba Yaga, but she's like a Russian witch. And it is kind of a story about death, but about a little mouse who comes and visits Baba Yaga, who's a fox. And she needs fire.

Annalouiza (31:51.059)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (32:03.778)
Based off the story, she needs fire for her family to stay alive, but the family sent her out because they don't love her and they think Baba Yaga is going to eat her. She goes through a bunch of tests, including counting bubbles and having to pick up sticks and having the audience help her and that sort of thing. And later for Baba Yaga to present to the mouse the fire she needs, but it's in a skull, which is true to the fairy tale.

Wakil David Matthews (32:11.492)
hehe

Annalouiza (32:30.953)
The Fairytale.

Wakil David Matthews (32:32.356)
Yeah, yeah.

Kilah Storm (32:32.617)
the mouse asks, why is it in a skull? And then Babi Aga responding, well, because death, even though it can be scary, is sometimes very valuable and can hold the treasure you're seeking. so in the fairy tales that I think of old have so much of this honesty roped into it. I really want to bring that back for modern day.

Annalouiza (32:42.357)
Beautiful

Wakil David Matthews (32:52.14)
Yes. Yeah.

Annalouiza (32:53.183)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (32:57.444)
Yeah, that's so important. Thank you. Yeah, even like Elder Homes probably would be a really great venue. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, let's see. did I get to pull up my book thing again? Where are we? Oh, yeah, yeah. Does anything frighten you about the end of life? Good question.

Annalouiza (32:59.699)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (33:03.146)
I'd love to.

Annalouiza (33:05.747)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (33:12.253)
I think we're or right, at the end of life for that question.

Kilah Storm (33:20.404)
I think, I have to think about that one for a bit. I think it's living a good story, you know? It's not really so much ending, it's the living that's hard. I mean, we all die. Every book ends. You want to know that your story was worth telling and was worthy of the ending, you know? It's such a culture that we...

Annalouiza (33:37.759)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (33:42.862)
Sure, yeah.

Kilah Storm (33:45.614)
we fear the book's ending, you we fear closing it. And it's, you almost see it like, so series after series and season eight or whatever, the trilogy, now it's a six-stop letter, you know, it's like, we don't want it to end, but we do. And when it ends well, we remember it forever and it's such a treasure, right? Yeah, that's what I want. I think.

Wakil David Matthews (33:53.06)
Right?

Annalouiza (34:02.142)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (34:02.308)
It ends,

Annalouiza (34:05.877)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (34:13.84)
appreciate that.

Kilah Storm (34:14.478)
What's interesting about this question too is the fear and we I think whenever we fear whatever we fear we head straight towards it whether we know it or not and I think culture we are terrified of dying because we're not having these conversations and I see it in from that animal shelter experience but also all around us we believe life being aligned we believe it to be you begin and then you end

Wakil David Matthews (34:25.612)
Yeah, right.

Kilah Storm (34:44.494)
and that there's no cycle there and you see it in how we treat most everything. There's trash, we believe in trash, we believe in waste, believe that something ends up not having value. And I think that's what I'm really trying to get across with the roadkill puppets is that this is something roadkill is what we're told not to look at, don't worry about it, it's nothing, it's just waste. And eventually it does get eaten back up into the earth and it does

Annalouiza (34:47.861)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (35:08.895)
Right.

Kilah Storm (35:13.292)
you know, go through its natural process. But I want folks to be forced to look at it and see the beauty in that reality. And the is, is that there is no waste. is. That is not something we need to be afraid of. And when we, if we as a society could believe that, I think we could actually believe that internally about ourselves. That when you get old, there is

Annalouiza (35:19.657)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (35:23.171)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (35:36.085)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (35:39.882)
You're not becoming, you're not about to be waste. You know, this isn't about like trash and becoming trash. I think it's like deep down we believe this, that we're not good enough. We're always trying to prove ourselves to be good enough and then we die, right? It's like, no, no, no. We are part of a great cycle of things where nothing gets wasted. And this is what it's about. And why are we afraid to?

Annalouiza (35:40.861)
you

Annalouiza (35:49.225)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (35:52.744)
Right.

Annalouiza (35:56.819)
Ugh. So.

Wakil David Matthews (35:58.873)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (36:01.973)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (36:02.114)
That's such a great way to look at it. If you look at it that way, it makes it maybe harder to warehouse the elders and just forget about them. It's because they're not empty beings. totally deserve to be alive and in life and taken care of and cared for. That's become a huge industry at this point. It's such a good way to look at things. Thank you so much.

Annalouiza (36:05.075)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (36:14.881)
Yes!

Kilah Storm (36:28.013)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (36:31.753)
It is. I really appreciate this. This is such a a new lens for us that we've had a guest talk about it this way, because, you know, that question, the end of life, it already sets people up for that, like the unknown. And you're like, I'm afraid of not living a great story. Like, I'm like, yes, my story right now is just a bunch of checklists that I do every single freaking day. And I'm like, I don't want that to be in my story.

Wakil David Matthews (36:47.908)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (36:52.214)
No.

Thank

Wakil David Matthews (36:57.462)
Yeah, yeah, that's a good motivation, right?

Annalouiza (37:05.557)
Yes. So Kilah, with all this wonderful work that you're doing and I have this deep thinking that you engage in, how do you keep yourself resource so you don't just like get tired or feel like the edges of that despair that our culture actually makes us want to feel?

Kilah Storm (37:27.086)
Mm-hmm. No, and this is a great question, too. I really appreciate this one. Financially, I do work. I try to work just enough to make sure I am taken care of. I work at a library with my husband. It's wonderful. It's one of the best jobs I've ever had. So financially, that's how I keep myself sustained. Spiritually, I write and tell stories, do my writing.

And honestly, performing is where I build my community. Writing's kind of a solo project. It does require getting people involved, but the performance thing and the puppets in that community is how I stay pretty focused and supported that way. But also never forget how important it is to be alone. I do take sometimes just a day, sometimes a weekend just to get away and be by myself.

Wakil David Matthews (38:25.22)
yeah.

Kilah Storm (38:25.482)
I love West Cliff. It's a town here in Colorado. I love just to drive down there and just sit, sometimes just staring at the mountains. I'm doing literally nothing, but just sitting there with my dog sometimes just like, okay, this is great. I can't sometimes explain why I need to do that, but that is very important. Yeah, that's a spiritual knowing, right? Like you just gotta get away and be reminded of how it's all connected sometimes.

Wakil David Matthews (38:36.771)
Heh.

Annalouiza (38:44.502)
Mm-hmm. I understand it.

Wakil David Matthews (38:47.113)
Yes, totally, absolutely.

Annalouiza (38:54.985)
Right. Well, I love it too, because I end up having to go away with my dog sometimes. And my dog's a little anxious. And it requires me still supporting somebody else. So I like that you're alone, alone, because I feel like that's when spirit moves. And I can actually be seen and heard and hear what can be of substance for my soul. So yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (38:55.192)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.

Kilah Storm (39:02.872)
Hmm.

Kilah Storm (39:18.434)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (39:22.18)
Yeah, Yeah, we have a practice in Sufism that we call Kilvah, which is silent meditation for three, four, five, six, seven, ten, forty days. But that's one of my favorite practices because it really is just exactly what you're talking about, an opportunity to just be in nature, let everything else go, and just...

Kilah Storm (39:35.651)
Bye!

Wakil David Matthews (39:49.731)
pay attention to what's going on in your heart. Listen to that still small voice, if you will. So important and so many people in our culture don't even bother to take a half hour nap in the afternoon, much less a day or two. Great, thank you.

Kilah Storm (39:54.883)
Yes.

Kilah Storm (40:04.114)
Yes, yes. We're afraid we're going to waste time and not find value in this sort of thing, right? that we think that would, that could be a waste and that's not valued. It's like, my god, no, no.

Annalouiza (40:04.757)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (40:11.526)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (40:11.683)
Right?

Annalouiza (40:16.341)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (40:19.874)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's such a reflection of our culture that even time is commodified. know, everything is a commodity and everything has to be spent or wasted, if you will, in order for it to have value. So yeah, you can't waste time because it's something, know, it's another commodity, capitalist commodity. that's a pretty upsetting sometimes and also perfect that you're saying and reminding us that you can't just

Annalouiza (40:22.856)
I know. I love it.

Kilah Storm (40:28.686)
Hmm.

Annalouiza (40:28.809)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (40:42.761)
Mm-hmm.

Kilah Storm (40:47.566)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (40:52.684)
let it go and it's really a very, very deep and important practice for supporting yourself.

Annalouiza (40:57.012)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I also want to tell you that this whole concept of wasting time and as in regards to death and dying, you know, there are times and this happened to yesterday. There was a dead squirrel on my walk and and I saw it and I was like, I won't be able to actually get home in time and do the next thing if I stop because I don't want to just like pick them and sort away. I'm usually like walk around and, I.

Kilah Storm (41:12.237)
Hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (41:26.628)
You

Annalouiza (41:28.149)
I have to be intentional. so I left it there and I thought if I walk in the afternoon, I'll come by and pick it up again. Right. But it's this whole idea that by picking up a mangled cat, by stopping at the side of the road and, you know, I buried a turkey one time in New Mexico, like it took time and effort and sweat and, know, just sitting out there and I didn't get to the place faster. I didn't, you know, all these things. And yet it was, I, I valued that time to just bear witness.

Wakil David Matthews (41:46.457)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (41:51.108)
Hehehe.

Kilah Storm (41:57.996)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (41:58.147)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (41:58.195)
And I think that that's the piece that I think our culture really forgets is like, you know, even then dying, takes time. It's just sitting. It's waiting on anything, everything all at once. And you can't commodify that time because, I mean, you could, you don't. It dehumanizes us when we try to hurry up past those really hard conversations, hard moments, death.

Kilah Storm (42:12.311)
Thank

Wakil David Matthews (42:17.026)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (42:22.862)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (42:26.719)
the stench of death right there. It's like, I got to get away from it. I got to get away from it. And instead, it's like, it just is. And I'm going to just sit with it for a moment. So yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (42:35.352)
Yeah, Yeah. I think we need a new word that's de-animalized instead of dehumanized. Yeah. Go ahead, kind of.

Kilah Storm (42:37.506)
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that.

Kilah Storm (42:42.766)
But no, I really appreciate you saying that because I now as someone who can take roadkill and transform it into art I mean it takes so much time and you see I see so much roadkill and I'm like, my gosh, it's so beautiful. I could do so much and I need to learn how to let it go and yes, just bear witness and just be okay with it going its natural way through.

Annalouiza (42:45.182)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (42:55.522)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (42:57.694)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (42:58.11)
Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha.

Annalouiza (43:00.253)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (43:05.353)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (43:09.3)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (43:10.006)
life cycles and not always having the chance to be able to be like to dedicate the time to make it to something for everyone.

Annalouiza (43:15.605)
Yeah. And I have the same thing. I'll be going 65 down the highway and I see a dead bird or a dead mammal. I look behind me to see if I could slow down and move over. I can't. I have to keep going. But I literally stop in my brain and just do my own prayers for it and just connect with it and say, yes, I see you. I love you. I will miss you in this world, but I'll see you again.

Wakil David Matthews (43:15.886)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (43:25.966)
No.

Wakil David Matthews (43:33.284)
Yeah, yeah, bless it.

Kilah Storm (43:34.156)
Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (43:40.228)
Yeah,

Kilah Storm (43:43.244)
Yes. Yes.

Annalouiza (43:45.811)
I mean, yeah, anyhow. Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (43:47.525)
Yeah, so good, so important. Yeah, noticing, just noticing that this is actually something that's gone to another, gone across the veil and it's important, like everything else is important. And as you were saying earlier, that life is in South, so around, so abundant, but life is all around us all the time and life and death is happening every single day, every single breath really. And just to be in that sense of awareness and acknowledgement and acceptance.

Kilah Storm (43:57.998)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (44:12.114)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (44:17.165)
is part of our work.

Annalouiza (44:20.005)
I love this.

Wakil David Matthews (44:21.252)
Wonderful conversation. you. Okay. Are we done? Are we done or not? no, actually, you did. Is there? Yeah, go ahead.

Kilah Storm (44:24.503)
you

Annalouiza (44:29.117)
Well, what would you? Well, what is there anything you wish we'd asked you or would?

Kilah Storm (44:38.542)
no i it is always okay of people to ask me this and i always seem a little like worried it's like how does your husband handle this how does your family think about you becoming this person and because yeah it's not like you're born suddenly doing all this nonsense what what seemingly nonsense and crazy and i do appreciate people ask but

Wakil David Matthews (44:47.844)
yeah, there's...

Annalouiza (44:48.615)
Wakil David Matthews (44:59.876)
You

Kilah Storm (45:05.806)
You know, he has some pretty funny stories of seeing me like in a shower doing like skinning an animal. he's like, oh my God, he was very gracious in helping me with a culling of a group of rabbits once. And he was great. But then he looked at me and said, I'll never do that again. I appreciate it, but I'll do it again. Not me. I'm like, that's fine. Thanks for doing it the one time. But I just like to bring that out because not everyone has to be comfortable with every process.

Wakil David Matthews (45:13.956)
You

Wakil David Matthews (45:28.312)
you

Wakil David Matthews (45:32.164)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (45:34.997)
Yeah. Right.

Kilah Storm (45:35.436)
light of that process. And I do love that he and my family can appreciate what I do. They don't necessarily want to do it too. Or like every stage of it, but they that they've been supportive of, of like what I'm aiming for and can undertook the time to understand why. So yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (45:44.696)
Right?

Annalouiza (45:57.225)
Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. Well, I

Wakil David Matthews (45:58.533)
That's so cool. Yeah, that's great. That's a really good question. A really good thing to mention too, because yeah, people don't have, everybody listening, don't have to start picking up roadkill, it's all right. Yeah, yeah.

Kilah Storm (46:04.078)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (46:05.908)
Yeah.

You don't unless you're called to do this unless you're called to it, but you.

Kilah Storm (46:10.21)
So, what are legal things to do if you're aware of that in your country or county or state you're in? So, yes, but...

Wakil David Matthews (46:19.106)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (46:21.501)
Yeah, I think it's funny how, you know, what kill and I do this work and we love it. We I could sit death jam all day long, you know, and and, I have children and they're also very much a part of my life and they think about it and talk about it and and respond to me and they're not becoming death, you know, people. So like they're just they're like, thank you, mama. Anyhow.

Kilah Storm (46:28.822)
Yes.

Kilah Storm (46:42.672)
It's incredible.

Wakil David Matthews (46:43.083)
Alright.

Kilah Storm (46:46.826)
Right. Yes, exactly.

Wakil David Matthews (46:51.46)
Good. Anything else that we should touch on or do you want to go ahead and read your poem or you want us to?

Kilah Storm (47:01.262)
Yeah, no, I can read it. This is a poem I wrote a couple of years ago, kind of right when I was starting this work, I guess we could say. I was just coming up with some script ideas and that sort of thing. And so I wrote this little poem, kind of a fun little poem. The idea is like two robins sitting on a power line talking together. So it's called The Winter Robin.

Wakil David Matthews (47:03.428)
All right.

Kilah Storm (47:31.434)
It's good to see you, dear cousin. How did your migration fare? I admit I did not do it this year. I wintered here on Adair. I did it for the wisdom. I secretly envied the crow. But now that I've survived the storm, there is so much more I know. Did you know the trees sing in winter, even with no leaves? I'm sure their song is dreary. Dreary, yes, indeed.

But have you heard the snow's melody? Only the wind has a voice, not snow. but snow doesn't sing like the birds do. It dances to a song I don't know. How did you not freeze to death? Frostbite could have taken your beak. I admit it wasn't comfortable. That's cause suffering winters for freaks. Summer eternal is blissful. No worries about food or pain.

But I love summer even more now that I have experienced this bane. There is beauty in the dying. In life's silence there is peace. All our lives we've wanted comfortable, but I want that now the least. You've gotten too philosophical. Our comfort is what's best. We can't escape every winter, cousin. Facing it brought me rest.

Annalouiza (48:54.601)
Hi, mom.

Wakil David Matthews (48:54.854)
I love that. Yeah, beautiful. Right, exactly, yeah.

Kilah Storm (48:55.437)
Thanks.

Annalouiza (48:58.453)
I kind of feel like I'm going to cry. wow. I love I love the snow, the melody of snow, because I can hear that. Yes, I can totally hear that. And it's a different melody today, but I have heard that and I love that. And you know what? We do get called a little too philosophical when we we winter, you know?

Kilah Storm (49:00.43)
Thank you. That means the most actually. Thank you.

Kilah Storm (49:11.65)
Right?

Wakil David Matthews (49:11.938)
Yeah, absolutely. Today, actually.

Kilah Storm (49:15.981)
You ready?

Kilah Storm (49:25.164)
Yes. Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (49:26.648)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so good.

Annalouiza (49:28.445)
and we choose discomfort over comfort and Kilah, keep writing.

Wakil David Matthews (49:33.432)
Yeah, very nice. Yeah, yeah. And the delivery was so obviously from a performer. You could really totally see those two birds. Really appreciate it.

Annalouiza (49:40.115)
you

Kilah Storm (49:40.558)
Yeah, I know.

Annalouiza (49:44.774)
Yes, yes.

Kilah Storm (49:45.262)
Good, Yes. Now you can imagine all the crazy characters coming up the with all their different voices. But yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (49:53.369)
Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely.

Annalouiza (49:54.425)
so amazing and life-affirming.

Kilah Storm (49:59.832)
Thank you. Well, I really have to thank you guys for what you're doing. mean, having just sort of fallen into this now being able to share my story and be like, don't then wake up one day and just decide I'm going to be a puppeteer with taxidermy animals, know, it kind of was a process. But it's so incredible to meet other people daring to have the same conversation, a conversation I wasn't finding other places and that this has.

Annalouiza (50:14.193)
Right? Right?

Wakil David Matthews (50:27.011)
Yeah.

Kilah Storm (50:28.014)
has connected us in this way and it's just so important and yeah I just I love that we are supporting each other and hopefully supporting helping the rest of the world to face the fears that we have that fear of dying and the fear of not being valued I think

Wakil David Matthews (50:32.79)
Absolutely, yeah.

Annalouiza (50:41.321)
Yes, yes.

Annalouiza (50:47.805)
or even the fear of having this conversation, right? Like people want to talk about it, but they're so scared of like how it's received or what words to use. Like that's just the beginning.

Kilah Storm (50:50.876)
f-

Wakil David Matthews (50:51.108)
Right?

Kilah Storm (50:56.034)
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah, so I love that you guys have found another way, maybe a less crazy way to have this conversation. I'm so glad I got to be invited here to chat with you guys about this.

Wakil David Matthews (50:59.428)
Yeah, beautiful.

Wakil David Matthews (51:06.884)
Hahaha

Wakil David Matthews (51:12.429)
Yeah, this is...

Annalouiza (51:12.511)
I appreciate that. And I sometimes don't get called back to certain people's homes because I talk about death and dying. you know, I also get, there's rejection that abounds with death and dying.

Wakil David Matthews (51:19.268)
Hahaha!

Kilah Storm (51:23.572)
Yes, that's why you get them two months. You get them two months so they get to know you, right? And then we start bringing it out. Yes.

Wakil David Matthews (51:24.076)
Yes, yes.

Annalouiza (51:28.816)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (51:29.133)
Yeah, there you go. There you go. Well, thanks again. I'm going to turn off the recording and we need to hang out a bit.

Annalouiza (51:32.67)