Two Envelopes - Give Your Beloveds the Gift of Knowing Your End of Life Wishes with Rusty Rosman

In this conversation, Rusty Rosman shares her experiences with caregiving and the importance of pre-planning for death through her book, 'Two Envelopes.' She discusses families' emotional challenges during end-of-life decisions and emphasizes the need for clear communication and documentation of final wishes. Rusty introduces the concept of two envelopes: one for immediate actions after death and another for post-funeral instructions, highlighting the significance of leaving a legacy and ensuring loved ones are prepared. We share insights on navigating grief, family dynamics, and the importance of preparation for end-of-life decisions. She discusses the challenges families face when dealing with loss, the fears surrounding death, and how to find purpose in later life. Rusty emphasizes the significance of communication and planning to avoid conflicts over generational wealth and possessions.

Rusty Rosman is the author of the book “Two Envelopes.” She spent years helping her parents and her in-laws as they aged. Over the years, Rusty saw many friends and their families conflicted over final arrangements and family confrontations. After making sure her parents updated their estate planning, Rusty encouraged them to write out their final wishes for their funerals and mourning period and then what they wanted done with their belongings that weren’t covered in their legal documents.

Rusty is one of four children. Having her parents put their wishes in writing made the heartbreaking experience of a parent’s death much easier for all four of them to navigate. From that experience, her book, “Two Envelopes,” was born.

Two Envelopes Book
Rusty's Info Page

Transcript

Wakil David Matthews (00:02.599)
Welcome everyone. Today we're privileged to speak with the author Rusty Rosman. Rusty spent years helping her parents and her in-laws as they aged. Over the years, Rusty saw many of their friends and their families conflicted over final arrangements and family confrontations. We've all run into that. After making sure the parents updated their estate planning, Rusty encouraged them to write out their final wishes for their funerals and the mourning period, and then what they wanted done with their belongings that weren't covered in their legal documents.

Annalouiza (00:36.002)
Rusty is one of four children. Having her parents put their wishes in writing made the heartbreaking experience of a parent's death much easier for all four of them to navigate. From that experience, her book, Two Envelopes, was born. We are looking forward to getting to know your story and more about your book. Thank you so much, Rusty, for being with us.

Rusty Rosman (00:56.46)
Very honored to be here. Thank you for asking me.

Wakil David Matthews (01:00.835)
We always like to kind of get a feel for all of our guests and their lives by asking the first question, which is when you first became aware of death.

Rusty Rosman (01:11.702)
In my thirties. Both of our parents, both sets of parents had medical needs. And I was the, my husband and I decided rather than going back to work after our last child was born, that I would be the caregiver, the person in charge of what goes on with both sets of families. I was very busy for a good 15 years, driving to doctors, following their directions, making sure the medication was right that the exercises, anything that they needed was done immediately. 

So I devoted myself to that as well as raising my children. In retrospect, both of my children now live much of what they saw me doing in their own lives, in their own business, the compassion that my children have because of the caregiving and what they saw on a daily basis.

Wakil David Matthews (02:07.389)
Beautiful, beautiful.

Annalouiza (02:08.164)
That is lovely. Yes, it is really wonderful to be an active role model for the coming generations so that they can, you know, metabolize all this wonderful information you're giving them. So how has death impacted that story from that point in your thirties forward? What is what's been going on?

Rusty Rosman (02:27.874)
Lots of my parents aged, my in-laws' ages, went to funerals and then you went to pay a condolence call. And the fighting that was going on was just heartbreaking. And much of it happened because I know my own mother said, I thought I told you that. 

Annalouiza (02:47.266)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (02:57.442)
You tell one child and you think you told another, you think you said the same thing to everyone, but you didn't. And it causes nothing but an uproar.

So I learned that if you want to be able to grieve wholly and completely, you've got to eliminate the chaos. You have to. So I sat down with my parents. My in-laws wanted no part of it, but my parents did and they wrote. And then we brought everybody together because I was the only one local. And we brought everyone together and I learned, feed people before you talk about anything difficult.

So we all had lunch and I had six boxes of Kleenex for the six of us. And in my case, our parents explained what they wanted, how they wanted, what to do. And my mother knew she was quite ill and she was younger than my father, but she knew she was going to die soon. And what to do with daddy because daddy had his own needs and what we need to do for daddy.

Wakil David Matthews (03:31.922)
Great.

Rusty Rosman (03:53.682)
And as I said, my siblings didn't live there, but everybody knew where daddy needed to go and what we needed to do for daddy. And when the time came, we all did. And there was no argument and no, well, I think this or, we should do that. Or I don't agree. None of that everybody knew because it was talked about ahead of time. And it had nothing to do if we liked it or not. 

Wakil David Matthews (04:10.077)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (04:19.31)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (04:22.338)
It had to do is that's what mother said. That's what daddy did. And so we knew it. The one thing that came very, very clear to me is everybody is concerned about their voice being heard. What everybody's forgetting is the voice that you need to listen to is the person who they are absolutely entitled to their opinion, their thoughts, what is right for them, whether it's right for you or not. I have a girlfriend who said to me, I don't need your book. We already made all those decisions. You know, she already knew she had a plot for her mother. She knew this, that, and the next thing, but she didn't like the officiant that her mother wanted. She said, you don't want that one. You want this one. And I said to her, who's funeral are we talking about? She said, it'll be my mother's. I said, who's going to pay for it? She said, well, my mother's a state. I said, why can't your mother have the officiant that she wants? it never occurred to her. This is her mother. It's her choice.

And what everybody else forgets is guess whose money you're spending. They're not yours. It's not yours. 

Wakil David Matthews (05:22.173)
Yeah, yeah.

Rusty Rosman (05:47.668)
And every kid, I know I have spoken all over the country and this people's eyes get really big when I say this. Your family doesn't owe you a penny, a nickel, a dime, a quarter or a dollar. Your parents earned the money, protected it, saved it. It's their choice what happens to it, not yours. That changes things a little bit when you stop thinking, well, I don't want to spend it because I'm going to get it. It's not yours. It's theirs. it's well, it's a very eye opening experience, which I saw happen in my own family.

Wakil David Matthews (05:51.891)
Yeah, good point.

Annalouiza (05:52.779)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a good point. I like that.

Wakil David Matthews (06:03.099)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good segue. We really wanted to help you talk about your book here. Your publisher actually connected to us and we thought, wow, what a great opportunity to tell people about a book that's specifically about planning and your ideas of like first and second envelope. So in that, in your book called Two Envelopes, it says it's about pre-planning. But why two envelopes? And like what would be in one envelope? What would be in the other?

Rusty Rosman (06:33.184)
In envelope number one, want you to label it number one, open immediately after I die. And the second envelope, number two, open immediately after the funeral because everybody is still there. 

Most important part, doesn't matter what you put in your envelopes. What matters is can your children find it or your loved ones find it ASAP. Because in envelope number one, you'll like this one. What is your name? What is your name? Now,

Wakil David Matthews (06:58.995)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (07:02.322)
Now, Social Security does not know me as Rusty Rousman. They do not. I have a different name, but I've never been called that name. So the funeral director is going to need to know what is my name and what is my social security number because they are required by law to connect with the social security department. But do your kids know your social security number? I mean nobody carries that card anymore because you're not supposed to. So where is it? 

Do you want to be cremated or do you want to be buried? Do you have plots? What do you want done if you're cremated? What do you want done with your ashes? And here's the real big one. If you're from a blended family and you've had children with this spouse, children with that spouse, and some people have also with that spouse, who do you go and you want to be buried? Where do you go? I have a story that I'm still recovering from. A gentleman who he met his wife in school, they married lived in state A and he had a business. They raised their three children. Everybody's happy. His wife died. He bought two plots. He buried his wife. Two years later, he met a lovely woman from state B and they lived together almost 30 years. He died. So she's ready to bury him in state B when the kids at state A say, uh-uh, he's going to get buried next to mom. In state B, those kids said, uh-uh, our mom wants to be next to him. Well, they almost ended up in court over what to do.

So this is what they did, and I'm still recovering. They cremated him and divided him in half. My sister said, I hope they stirred him, but he divided. One half of him is in state A and the other half of him is state B. Is that what he wanted? Say so and put it in envelope number one.

Wakil David Matthews (08:50.417)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (08:50.916)
I do like that though. It's very Solomonic, right? Or like Solomon would have cut that baby in half. I kind of like that.

Rusty Rosman (08:57.518)
I have met with over three dozen funeral directors. I've met with many cemetery executive directors. It is not unusual that when somebody's cremated that they are put in four or five, six different boxes and given to different family members. What do you do with the box after you die? What do your kids do with it? What do you want to happen to it? This requires thinking and write it down and put it in envelope number one and then they'll know.

Wakil David Matthews (09:26.675)
Yeah, yeah.

Rusty Rosman (09:27.5)
And the best call is to date it and to sign it. And one of the things, how does your family get into the cell phone? Write it down and put it in either envelope number one or number two. But there's a code. They don't know what it is. They just know you hold up the phone and there you are. The same thing with passwords to your computer. Put that in there.

All these kind of things that you think, It's not funny, but in envelope number one, it's perfectly fair to say, please notify the following people. People you worked with that your kids may not know. Cousins that you know that live here or there or everywhere, but they've never met them. They wouldn't know to let them know. Neighbors that you live next door to that you exchange Christmas cards with. Your kids don't know, you know. They're off living their own lives. The people you want notified that you've died, how to notify them. Is it email? Is it snail mail? The things that you did in your life, because look at what you're doing now. 

Wakil David Matthews (10:43.997)
Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (11:04.942)
But your kids really didn't know you until they were really about 10 years old. They were busy being a kid and you were mom, dad. But what did you do in your college years? Were you in charge of this? Did you participate in that? Were you arrested? Were you this? Were you that? You know, were you, you know, marching in the Vietnam War, what were you doing that you the officiant to talk about? 

I was at a funeral with, and my friend was the officiant, and he was so upset when the funeral was over because the kids could not think of anything to tell them about their mother who was 83, except she liked to knit. So there's a whole lot more her life than just knitting. Help your family, help the officiant.

Wakil David Matthews (11:30.641)
Yeah, exactly.

Annalouiza (11:32.056)
Yeah. I feel like this is also like a practice in really, when I think about your book, I think about you're going to spend that time writing down the list of items. But it's also a really good opportunity to actually pick up the phone and call your kids and talk about things. Because, you know, I feel like most people assume that they have caught on. I think my kids would actually have too much to say at my funeral because every now I have a snafu and my daughter's like, I'm going to write that one down because I'm definitely going to say that one at your memorial. it is about communication ultimately, right? And storytelling and sharing the parts of yourself that get kind of just swept along with the tide of time, Mm-hmm. So.

Wakil David Matthews (12:18.173)
Of life. Yeah, life. Yeah. And there's also something we talked about in the class is the importance of going back and looking at what you wrote down maybe a year later, because it can all change, right? So that's…

Annalouiza (12:28.878)
Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (12:30.926)
Yes, you go into your envelopes once a year. I know I collected January one and I every January and if you change anything, date it and sign it. 

Wakil David Matthews (12:40.925)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Annalouiza (12:41.476)
Mm-hmm.

Wakil David Matthews (13:00.243)
That's right.

Rusty Rosman (13:01.026)
Number two is just as important. You want your kids to know how to get into your computer. If you have a who's the vet? They may not know. If you lease your car, you know you picked it up at ABC dealership and so they take it back there, but they don't know that the paperwork is over there in that city. You know where. 

Wakil David Matthews (13:26.865)
Yeah, exactly.

Rusty Rosman (13:32.278)
In fact, they don't know those things. What you need to do is think if I was the one taking care of me, you know, closing things down, what about the medication you have on automatic refill? They're busy taking care of this at the next thing and they open the mailbox and there's, you know, eight bills, which is charged to the credit card. So you need to tell them how to go about finding what you need to shut down. And that's something that only you really know, you know. because our kids now at our age, our kids are busy with their own lives and their own family. And while you think they know, they're busy with so much else they may not remember. So writing it down is helpful.

Wakil David Matthews (13:45.851)
Yeah, Annalouiza's kids are still nearby, mine are definitely off and running. Yeah. That's good.

Rusty Rosman (13:53.422)
Well, my kids don't live in my state. So they don't know what's going on. My kids were here until they were 18, off to college, then off to professional, and now living their lives in different states with their own families. So they have no idea where medication comes from or who the doctors are.

Annalouiza (14:09.312)
Yeah, I think that I'm hoping that our podcasts and the work that we're doing out in the world will also help more younger families and millennials and Gen Zers, Yers, whatever they are to to be curious. And I feel like the really young people are really curious. Like my kids actually have all that information that you just said, Rusty, because they have the master password to my last pass. And, you know, they know everything. They're in my business so much.

And I offer it to them. I've not been the parent who obscures health issues, mental health issues, or hard stories about so-and-so person should not be at my funeral. And again, it's like my 16 and 18-year-old could probably do a really good job tomorrow in burying me and having everything taken care of, because I have been pounding this into their heads since they were really little.

Wakil David Matthews (14:58.067)
Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (15:04.065)
They're both busy 24-7 with their own families and their professions and on call and all the other things that they're doing and there's an awful lot in each person's head, you know? information.

Wakil David Matthews (15:07.601)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (15:15.704)
Yeah, that's true.

Rusty Rosman (15:33.1)
Which is why envelope number two is where you put your insurance policy, technologies. That you want the other thing and I want to go back to envelope number one. It is important that you gather your that your kids will need, for instance. They'll get death certificates from the funeral director, but some places will ask for a birth certificate just to verify that you are you. 

I heard a story from a woman, I think she lived in Nebraska, that her husband had every single cable thing you could have. He was paying close to $500 a month. And in order to shut it down, which he wanted to do, they required the death certificate, the marriage certificate, and his birth certificate. Well, she got the death and the marriage. She couldn't find his birth certificate. Long story short, he wasn't born in that state. And he was older. Nobody was around to know where was he born. It took them 18 months to find where he was born to get the certificate. She paid on that bill for 18 months until she was able to prove that he was the one that had the, and 18 months she paid over $500 for something she didn't want. 

Wakil David Matthews (16:25.351)
Wow, yeah.

Rusty Rosman (16:32.974)
So those are things that you really need to think about because your kids may not know that.
Medical, legal, financial, designating, health care, directives, pets, your jewelry, your art, genealogy. You know, if you're a genealogist for your family and you've made the whole record, where do they find it? Because it's on your computer. You know, make copies for everybody. So somebody might want to do that. Photo albums. You know, I went and had copies made of all these things. So all four of us would have, but not everybody, you know, wants to do that. But those are all important things to think about and to be prepared and that's what goes in envelope number two. 

And then I'd like to share with you and your listeners the last thing that I suggest and I wrote this. Writing a love letter to your children and putting in an envelope number two is a gift to you and to them. This is the perfect opportunity to say what you want to your children. These are your children. These are your babies. Let them hear your voice and your memories.

Writing your letter, if you're able, rather than typing it, gives them a recognizable piece of you. You will feel better and they will all feel your love. This is truly a gift from you to them. And I would like to quote Genesis chapter 49. Before the biblical partner, Jacob died, he gathered his family around his bed to bless his family and to say goodbye. 

Wakil David Matthews (17:52.955)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Rusty Rosman (17:58.988)
So not every child fulfills a parent's dream for them but you were given this gorgeous little thing to hold and to love, it's still your child. And some people don't know what to write. So it's perfectly fine to say, I loved you from the second I knew you were going to be born, and I will love you forever.

Wakil David Matthews (18:14.385)
Yeah, This whole, I mean, the whole two envelopes or the planning process that we talk about, the advanced care planning, all those things. Really, all of that is a gift that you're giving to the people who are going to have to deal with this, right? So yeah, it's great that you've got all those things written down and that you know, you know, somebody that one resource I found said, have a party once a year instead of your birth party, have a death party, invite all those people that you want to take care of things for you and make sure they really want to do it still, you know?

Rusty Rosman (18:47.01)
Yeah. And don't be surprised if the person you expect to take care of everything dies before you do, which is why I just like to show this, if I may, this is the book, it's called Two Envelopes, What You Want Your Loved Ones To Know When You Die. 

Wakil David Matthews (19:00.433)
Yeah, good.

Rusty Rosman (19:15.882)
And it's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble can get it for you, Walmart can get it for you. So I very proud of the book and I am extremely proud of the wonderful things that people say after they have read the book and done everything inside of the relief that they feel. They feel satisfied because so many people I know, their children just don't live near them. And you you have one here, one somewhere else. And that way everybody knows the same thing. So what you want to do is eliminate the chaos so your kids can grieve.

Wakil David Matthews (19:37.809)
Absolutely, yeah.

Annalouiza (19:39.31)
So what are some of the challenges that you face with your work?

Rusty Rosman (19:45.304)
Well, the biggest challenge that I had was when I spoke with different funeral directors was the shock that I have of how many families fight in their office. I was shocked, absolutely shocked. And that it's very unusual that everybody is on the same page. 

Annalouiza (19:56.941)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (20:13.504)
What do mean you're going to bury them? Why this? No matter who I talked to, no matter what religion it was. And especially it was interesting in the Muslim world, in so many of the younger people who are a lot more liberal are not real thrilled, you know, when the older kids in the family want it more traditional and that is what they want for themselves. But again, it's not what you want. It's what your loved one wants.

Wakil David Matthews (20:36.445)
Yeah, exactly.

Rusty Rosman (20:42.54)
And get that across is the hard part. It's what your loved one wants. You are facilitating for them. It's not about you. It's about them.

Wakil David Matthews (20:47.899)
Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, we always like to also check in with our guests and just ask you if anything, what frightens you most about the end of life?

Rusty Rosman (21:02.114)
That's a good question. I don't want any pain. And I hope to God, I'll be able to see my children before I die, because they live in other states. And I don't know if I'll live longer than my husband or my husband will live longer than me. But I hope that we will be together when the time comes that one of us has to go. A loved one is with me. I would prefer that rather than alone. That's how I feel.

Wakil David Matthews (21:25.553)
Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

Annalouiza (21:36.516)
And then go ahead. you read it? I was going to say, was going to ask. So you've been doing all this work. You're connecting with folks. How do you keep yourself resource? How do you take care of yourself so that this doesn't become a grind for you and you're tired and you talk about this all the time, but does it? How do you take

Rusty Rosman (21:55.768)
In fact this book has given me, I'm 78 years old. It has given me a boost that I never expected at this point in my life. I've been very busy with business and the community work that I do. on several of the township boards and I've done them for 40 years and I, you know, I like doing those things. But at my age, people are winding down. I'm going the other way. 

Annalouiza (22:20.804)
Good for you. I like that.

Rusty Rosman (22:25.154)
I'm traveling the country and I been talking about my book and selling it. And I have been energized, really energized by it. And I've had the fun of watching my husband be so energized by it. It's nice, honey. 

Annalouiza (22:35.812)
Beautiful.

Wakil David Matthews (22:39.111)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (22:54.916)
I love it. I love it.

Rusty Rosman (22:55.072)
That's terrific. Yay, you and then. And then when I went to a book fair and I presented my book, there were over 100 people there was standing room only. And then they all lined up to buy the book. It took me an hour and half to sign books. He was blown away. And it was like, wow. 
So he's been 100 % ever since. But what I love and I really love and my husband loves is people saying how important it was for them to read the book and to do the envelopes. 

Annalouiza (23:07.917)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (23:23.688)
I just got off the phone about 20 minutes before we got on with a friend who has just turned 80. And she couldn't thank me enough because her son doesn't live here. Her daughter is not so attentive. And she said, I'm so relieved, you know, and they both know where to find it and whatever. 

Wakil David Matthews (23:26.323)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (23:26.468)
Mm-hmm. Beautiful. I'd love that.

Rusty Rosman (23:34.786)
So I love it because did that. I can help people feel what I feel because I'm very, very satisfied that I'm prepared. My husband is prepared. We both have separate envelopes, by the way. 

Wakil David Matthews (23:35.963)
Yeah, yeah, that's great. And that's great that it supports you and makes you feel

Annalouiza (23:52.42)
Good, as it should be.

Rusty Rosman (24:03.832)
He has his. No, we're flying back from Europe and the man next to my husband was telling him all about his sky miles and that when you're dead, you can assign them to a family member. And my husband got so excited, came home, went and got his envelope, put in there who we wanted to have a Sky Mile. He was so satisfied. I know, yeah, Sky Mile. But he was. And that's what it's about. It's about you and what makes you satisfied. What gives your sense of satisfaction? And Sky Miles did it for him.

Annalouiza (24:10.465)
Mm.

Wakil David Matthews (24:22.823) 
Yeah, yeah. That's great. Yeah, every time we do the class, I find one more thing. Somebody says, have you thought about this, that we can add into that list of, and I have a checklist that people can go through. And yeah, Sky Miles, I think is in there, but if it's not, I'm certainly going to add it. A lot of those things have ways you can just assign beneficiaries or transfer on death kind of things. 

Most of those things, even like, of course, you're your properties and stuff, but things like your car or an insurance or trusts that you have, some of those are, you you need to put the name down. And the other thing we found, one of the newer ones I found recently was all of your social media accounts. You can say who's in charge of it when you die. You can create beneficiaries for those and who takes over. So another good thing to have on there. So yeah, thank you. This is really, you know, it's always good, I think, to just really think about this. So I'm really glad you put this together.

Rusty Rosman (25:31.15)
I say in my book is take the time to think. Perfect story. There was a family. They got married. The husband and wife got married right after the depression finished. had $86 between them. They drove to New York City for their honeymoon and stayed with relatives on the way. Can you imagine? But they did. But they wrote a list of some day we want to have. And 37 years later, they crossed off the last thing on the list, which was a grandfather clock. Well, they had four children. They have one clock. Who gets it? Do you want us to fight about it? Or do you want to say I want so and so to have it? And why? Because the other three are going to go.

Wakil David Matthews (26:02.674)
Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (26:14.296)
But other fathers said why, who and why. And if they want to be mad, they can't be mad at each other. They can be mad at but she's not there. But it's those kind of things because they'll fight over anything.

Annalouiza (26:28.291)
Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (26:28.812)
yeah, yeah, that happens a lot.

Rusty Rosman (26:30.49)
I’m sure you've heard every story. I've heard every story and it's and you think to yourself you're fighting over that but people do.

Wakil David Matthews (26:33.757)
Yeah. They do.

Annalouiza (26:36.962)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I wish more people would just like also gift things to like libraries or community centers because, you know, in some ways, like some items could be better utilized in the greater world for more joy than just sitting in a kid's, you know, foyer and they don't know where to absorb it into their own space and stuff. I'm like,

Wakil David Matthews (26:57.959)
Yeah, And Annalouiza's told some fun stories about her kids saying, I want that toy when you leave.

Annalouiza (27:02.756)
I have a lot of toys and so they are. I thought they would be OK, but they're starting to ask me for specific things and they're you know, an old Patagonia jacket that both of them just recently wore and and they and my son was like, hey, I want that when you die and my daughter is like, no, no, I actually want it. I called dibs on that jacket. So I'm like, I might have to just use it to the end and just give it away like.

Wakil David Matthews (27:24.964)
Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (27:27.97)
Yes, that would go in envelope number two.

Wakil David Matthews (27:28.819)
Hahaha.

Annalouiza (27:30.754)
Maybe it'll just disappear to somebody else who would really enjoy it because I don't I don't want them to be fighting.

Rusty Rosman (27:37.096)
It’s still your jacket so if you donate it somewhere it won't be there to crack you up.

Annalouiza (27:40.204)
Yeah, exactly. But I have been thinking about that, how especially about generational wealth right now that's moving from the boomers down to X-ers. Y-ers, anybody and how it just continues to stay in this one little quadrant of this world. And I think if I ever have any money, I am going to like give it to like the community because I don't you know, this whole process of just hoarding our stuff from generation to generation. And then there's fighting. Like it almost feels like now it's infused with this energy of scarcity. And there shouldn't be. We should all just be like, pass it along. Yeah.

Wakil David Matthews (28:20.307)
Spread it around. Yes, indeed.

Rusty Rosman (28:21.656)
I like the thing that you just said, because I have a friend who did do that and left their money for the children to go to college. But one of her grandchildren is not going to college. And what do you do about that kid? What do you do with you? Each one supposedly gets $30,000 and that one's not going to college. What do you do with that one? 

Wakil David Matthews (28:33.999)
Mm-hmm.

Rusty Rosman (28:49.806)
So I don't know the answer and I say so in my book, but this is the time to think these things out. Talk about it, write it down put it in your envelope, you change your mind, it's in your house. It's not in a safety deposit box. Go in, you know, if you want to change it. That's why I say date things and sign them so people know. But those are real issues and that's what we'll go to war about. And I can truly tell you World War III is not going to be between countries. 

Wakil David Matthews (29:11.539)
between siblings,

Annalouiza (29:13.134)
Yep. Yep.

Rusty Rosman (29:19.33)
It's going to be between it's within countries. You've seen it, you've heard it, and you eyes open wide and go, oh my god, you know, are you kidding me? But it's real. It's very real to the people who are affected by whatever that one, that choice is.

Wakil David Matthews (29:23.473)
Yeah, exactly.

Annalouiza (29:30.915)
Yep.

Wakil David Matthews (29:31.376)
Exactly.

Rusty Rosman (29:48.278)
So again, I say it is your voice. This is your life you're talking about. These are your possessions. You get to choose and say so to the kids that, you know, in the envelope, this is what daddy and I have chosen or I have chosen. And this is what we want.

And I know my mother said to us, this is what we've chosen to give to you. If you like it, great. If you don't feel free to trade among yourselves, give it or sell it, whatever you want. But this is what we've chosen to give to you. And that made Shalom by Peace in the House. It was from up high. It was mother said, and it we were all in our 40s going into our 50s. Mother said, and that's what we did.

Wakil David Matthews (30:09.915)
Is that right?

Wakil David Matthews (30:14.481)
Yeah. Perfect. Yeah, really good. Well, we like to give you a chance at the end to tell us anything. First of all, tell us how people can get a hold of you if you have a website, or we'll definitely put those links in the podcast notes. And also, is there anything else that we didn't ask you that you'd like to share with us?

Rusty Rosman (30:37.518)
Thank you. You can always reach me at Rusty Rossman. It's R-U-S-T-Y R-O-S-M-A-N at gmail.com. And the name of my book is Two, spelled T-W-O, envelopes, ‘S’. What you want your loved ones to know when you die. It's available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Walmart. All of those are dot com.

Wakil David Matthews (31:00.029)
Yeah, yeah, perfect, yeah.

Rusty Rosman (31:07.15)
 And I so appreciate the opportunity to visit with both of you. And it was a real learning experience from hearing what you do and sharing what I do. And it's a good thing that we do because nobody likes to talk about death. 

Annalouiza (31:15.69)
Nobody. Yep.

Wakil David Matthews (31:29.693)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rusty Rosman (31:37.226)
Nobody, oh, that's not gonna happen to me. I have a girl that I can't talk about it because my mother's never gonna die. I said, okay. And her mother's never gonna die. Now you and I know differently, but she can't, she can't, and she won't. And so she'll live with whatever she needs to do. 

But I believe and I've heard from so many people how important it is to plan what you want. And you won't know what they're doing afterwards because you won't be there. But you're putting your voice out there with what you want for those that you love. And that way they honor what you want. 

Wakil David Matthews (31:54.609)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (31:57.956)
Thank you, Rusty. We appreciate you. Thank you.

Rusty Rosman (32:00
So I thank you so much for the opportunity to speak your voice and get to your audience. And thank you for inviting me. I so enjoyed being here.

Wakil David Matthews (32:07.047)
Yeah, thanks. It was great to talk with you and we'll put all those in the notes and we'll let you know when it's going to be live so you can send it out to all your friends. And, you know, if you have friends or people you've run into, have a good story, have them listen to the podcast and get in touch. We're always looking for more things.

Rusty Rosman (32:23.726)
It was so nice to meet you both. Thank you very much for having me. I'm really, it was very honored that you asked. Thank you.

Annalouiza (32:26.084)
Thank you.

Wakil David Matthews (32:30.387)
Thank you.