Halloween Special Episode - Worldwide Death Rituals and The Connection Between Death and Love

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In this conversation, Rev Wakil David Matthews and Annalouiza explore the cultural differences surrounding Halloween, its historical origins, and the evolution of death rituals across various cultures. They discuss how Halloween has transformed into a commercialized holiday in the U.S. and the impact of Christianity on traditional death celebrations. The hosts emphasize the importance of reconnecting with ancestors and the natural cycles of life and death, encouraging listeners to reclaim Halloween as an opportunity to honor loved ones and engage in meaningful conversations about death.

The episode emphasizes the importance of talking about death and dying openly and honestly to improve the overall end-of-life experience. Understanding grief and loss is an integral part of coping with death and navigating the complex emotions that arise. It also highlights the role of hospice and death education to assist people during end-of-life situations.

Transcript

Rev Wakil David Matthews (00:00.803)
Hello, loved ones here and beyond the veil. I am the Reverend Joaquin David Matthews. For this special Halloween episode, we thought it would be fun and interesting to spend some time looking at the different, well, looking at the cultural differences between what we do here in the United States, our Halloween celebrations, and then the ones that other cultures do around the world. Even though our Halloween culture, our Halloween that we do here, kind of originated with the Celtic saw and ceremonies.

It seems to have evolved or maybe even devolved into one of more fear and danger and evil, you know? And so we thought it would be interesting to talk about how other cultures seem to be more comfortable with the celebrating and honoring the loved ones who have passed away and then kind of how it's changed here in our culture. So what do you think, Ana Luisa?

Annalouiza (00:52.162)
think that's a really great idea because I've thought about...

Annalouiza (00:58.838)
I, as some of you have heard before, I was raised Pentecostal. And I remember being a kiddo who heard about Halloween at school and at my Bluebird troop. And, you know, it was always like a mixed bag because I wanted to be a part of it. But my parents were always told that it was a satanic ritual and that we had to be very careful.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:25.593)
Right.

Annalouiza (01:27.608)
that it's a night where so much demonic activity happened. you know, growing up, sometimes they'd have like these church slumber parties or, you know, for kids so that they'd give us candy, but keep us in the church and to be safe, right? And so, you know, I was just always floam-uxed by this whole notion that we were, we had to hide from Halloweeners. And it was...

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:42.351)
Keep you safe. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (01:52.825)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (01:55.918)
It was interesting because I think when I was in junior high, I kind of thought I would just start looking to see what it originated from. And I could understand, like, I didn't know what a pagan was like. Like, what's a pagan? Right. And so now that you and I are enjoying each of this company and death positive spaces, I love that we're going to talk about this because I think there's like you said, there's been such a change from what Halloween might have originated as.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:05.369)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:14.286)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (02:25.314)
to what we see as a multi-billion dollar capitalist function that keeps people afraid and not really wanting to get closer to the conversation about death, which is what it came from. So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:30.287)
You

Rev Wakil David Matthews (02:39.597)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really true. And I was thinking that, you know, it has kind of become like all the other holidays that came from the pagans. Just another one of those things that we turn into buy, buy, buy, buy something, you buy these costumes and get yourself out there and scare people. And that whole scary thing of, you know, putting graves and skeletons and all this stuff, know, yeah, right, that stuff coming out.

Annalouiza (02:51.789)
Right.

Annalouiza (03:02.434)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:08.557)
Yeah, I mean, you if we look back this time of year in the northern hemisphere, it's the shortest nights or shortest days of the year. And so we have these long nights and you can imagine, you know, back in the day that people were sitting around with not much else to do. It was cold and at least, like I said, northern hemisphere. And they started to think about and maybe feel that sense that the veil was thinner. And so, you know, maybe we can actually have some

celebration and conversation and with each other and with the people who have gone before. And you see that over and over again in the cultures around the world until it gets here and does what it does here. Yeah.

Annalouiza (03:41.262)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (03:47.02)
Right. So what I found out this afternoon was indeed the Celts, you know, lots and lots of lots of iterations ago would count all hollows, Eve day, which they didn't call it that they call it saw one. They call it. They considered that the halfway point between autumnal equinox and winter solstice. So it's the halfway point that they would mark on their own.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (03:58.372)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (04:14.496)
cat like natural calendar. And I love that they probably did do a lot of slaughtering of animals and start trying to put all their harvest food away because now it's cooler. Their food can keep a little bit. And that what they did set aside this time to honor everybody who had passed during the year and came together and then it became like a community function where food gets made.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:16.175)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:22.511)
All right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:27.065)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (04:42.158)
you know, apples were brought in for kids probably. And people were disgusted like the past tense or maybe not so much past tense because they were like tonight they're still out there wandering around. Right. And so so Samhain is the beginning of All Saints Day, which I guess I read that ninth century. The Catholic Church said enough of this pagan stuff.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:45.263)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:50.093)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (04:54.073)
Yeah, they're here with us, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:09.636)
haha

Annalouiza (05:10.446)
It's ours. We I thought it was kind of funny. It was like, we're going to create the party. You come to our party and don't go to your party to these pagan, these dirty people, these dirty farmers, because pagan actually means like people of the land. So.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:17.977)
Right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:23.565)
Yeah, yeah. And I can just, I can kind of imagine the big bonfires and people all sitting around and like looking around and kind of feeling that sense of our ancestors are right here with us. Let's have a conversation. Let's have a celebration. Let's feed them. Let's dance with them. Let's sing, you know? I mean, we had that wonderful Irish person come on. Yeah, do the Revenant songs.

Annalouiza (05:29.379)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (05:35.624)
Yes.

Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (05:49.081)
That was beautiful. was, was, and that is something that's again, that's in Ireland, that's pretty much harking back to these times. These, these songs were about connecting to the dead, you know, and reaching out to them and saying, Hey, let's, let's have a party. And I love that. And of course the wake, the idea. And we also looked into other European countries that did like the after the All Saints day would be the after all souls day, the next day, November 1st and 2nd.

Annalouiza (06:03.766)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:17.805)
I think it was in Austria that All Souls Day was a time for everybody to go out and visit all of their loved ones at the graveyard and to go to their graves and to put candles and food and same kind of thing. know, just really celebrate that these people aren't gone. They're still in our hearts. They're still a part of us and we want to say hello. What a wonderful, sweet way to look at things instead of, my God, let's make each other scared.

Annalouiza (06:32.194)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (06:36.578)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Annalouiza (06:46.998)
Yeah, and you know, it's lot of different things for me. I also feel like, you know, the rise of Christianity also did away with a lot of these very natural and loving ceremonies that people would do to keep connected to one another and those who were on the other side of the veil.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (06:51.417)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:00.377)
Yeah.

Annalouiza (07:10.146)
But, you know, so just as a as a kind of a cross reference to the idea was the other was more because it's two days just like they do in Austria. And what I didn't realize is it's like the Catholic Church wanted you to celebrate the death of all the saints, which I'm like, OK, you know, what else? Like I didn't know them. But for my tradition, we spend November 1st honoring all babies who have died, dead children, pets.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:16.26)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:37.135)
Hmm.

Annalouiza (07:38.295)
all those that we consider like saintly by their own right. so, you know, real saints. Yeah, saints we know. And so we usually have a lot of kids come over and do their own little thing, talk about death. And then November 2nd is for the adults who have passed. And so

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:42.659)
Yeah, real saints.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (07:59.375)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (08:01.068)
You know, it's a two day celebration that the church wanted to force our hand to do it one way. But here we have now, there's a continuation for me in my mind. It's like all Hallows Eve. You know, it's the night before we start this tradition to spend time with our ancestors. You know, this is when we do all the cooking. This is what we do, you know, getting the food prepared.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:07.353)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:12.303)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (08:23.902)
and setting up the bonfires. And one thing I also found out about was that the bonfire that was made that evening would be the fire that you took home to light your winter fire to keep it, to which I imagine is the next is to Easter, because that is the next time that you let the fire die out and you start a new one and begin that fire to take you through another season. So all these very lovely and

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:35.129)
Right, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:41.199)
yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:46.029)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (08:53.588)
earth, know, nurturing, yes, traditions.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (08:54.539)
Yeah, yeah, connected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we've lost sight of those, unfortunately, and in our culture only, think, well, maybe only, there's other cultures. A lot of the Western cultures have lost sight of those under the influence of Christianity mostly. Maybe the other Abrahamic religions have contributed to that. But in any case, losing sight of that has separated us from that which is real, that connection to the earth and that.

And that we try to reclaim with all of what we're doing and the mystic practices and the time to, you know, trying to get back into the earth and be with the earth and be grounded and present and celebrating and saying thank you. All those things that we spend most of our time talking about, thinking about, trying to do our practices to try to bring that back into our world.

Annalouiza (09:40.728)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. You know, something else that occurred to me is like we they were thankful for that time too, but they also acknowledged the end of that season, right? The trees have probably lost their leaves. You know, the grasses have become drier. There is a very deep fear of dying through the winter because of the cold. Do we have enough food? Do we have enough, you know, fuel for our fires? And so death is is present. It's it's around. It's like

Rev Wakil David Matthews (09:54.297)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:12.408)
Yeah, yeah.

Annalouiza (10:15.692)
walking around and being like, who do I get this year? Right. So so truly it is the veil is thin. You know, not only are we mourning our loved ones who have passed, but I see that death is still lurking.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:18.956)
Exactly.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:24.131)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:30.991)
Exactly, yeah. And I think through our practices that we do sometimes when we do deep meditation in the forest and stuff, we begin to kind of get that sense of the thinness of the veil that we notice more in this time of year because it's getting dark and we get a chance to kind of sleep, rest, you know, the opportunity to rest in the darkness.

Annalouiza (10:57.219)
Right.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (10:57.775)
You can kind of create that as well with meditation and with being in the forest. But this is an opportunity to notice how the earth is responding. I think that's the beauty of it, is you're tuning into the cycles of the planet that we live on, the mother that is going through her death cycle right now. And that also holds that intrinsic hope that spring will return, right? That's all. That's right. Yeah.

Annalouiza (11:20.046)
That's right. That's right. And it's a hope. It's just a hope. That's all that's going to get us through it, right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (11:27.651)
Yeah, because otherwise we despair and we get in. mean, people do. People do get depressed in the wintertime. And then of course they get depressed every time, every day because of all the other things that are going on. But the way I think it's a great lesson for us to remember that this is an opportunity to reconnect and to notice that, that intrinsic hope, that

that spring does come back, that the morning does come, that we do take that next breath. And it's just sort of a wonderful, wonderful earth connection that takes us through that lesson. Wow, what a blessing. What a blessing it can be. Yeah.

Annalouiza (12:09.238)
It can be so, you know, going back to our Halloween practice here, where actually capitalism has like absconded with that practice as well, right? Like, it's like somebody needs to make billions of dollars. And, you know, I wonder how much of this is to like, I was just imagining.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:14.927)
Right, yeah.

Yeah.

Annalouiza (12:28.206)
you know, our ancients sitting around during this time, you know how it's starting to cool down outside the earth, like the actual earth is getting a little cooler, but every once in a while you'll feel a thermal just go by like warm air just kind of sift by, you know, might that have been an ancestor who just went by, right? So there's, so there's all these little kind of earth motions that contribute to

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:30.244)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:38.319)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:47.757)
Yeah, snuggled up.

Annalouiza (12:55.948)
this like mystery, right? Like, what was that? And then now, like we send kids out, and you know, fully decked out in plastic and, you know, wigs and stuff. And they're out there being the spirits, but not able to feel the mystery. Right?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (12:58.051)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:05.295)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:15.503)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's really sad. I remember in my neighborhood there used to be one guy that would put on this really scary costume and walk around just freaking everybody out. And he was having fun. It was his fun. But again, it's that whole sense of this is about how scared can we be or go watch a horror movie.

Annalouiza (13:37.452)
Right, well, it contributes to a culture that's very afraid of death, right? Well, or it changes the perception that death is ugly and loathsome rather than natural.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (13:42.253)
Yeah, yeah, more so, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is what we're trying to make different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, yeah, go ahead.

Annalouiza (13:56.087)
little steps, baby steps. Yeah. I don't know. Just keep going. Because I was just thinking about so much that we've lost to what people think is progress, right? Like, it's just taken us so far away from the, you know, the mystery of the earth.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:09.7)
Yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:15.139)
Yeah, from our earth. Yeah, yeah, and forgetting. Yeah, just being in this forgetfulness and thinking that we have to have these, all these things, all these accoutrements, all these, you know, our nice cars, our nice houses, our nice, all the nice, nice stuff, you know, gets, that, yeah, that get between us and that sense of being one with the beloveds. so,

Annalouiza (14:32.941)
Well...

or the Hallmark holidays.

Annalouiza (14:41.964)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (14:43.907)
Let's reclaim it, right? How about that for a call to action for everybody? Let's see if we can reclaim this and maybe start talking, maybe start having celebrations with your loved ones more around the Samhain version or around the Dia de los Muertos or even the second half of the All Souls Day. Just spending that time remembering that those people haven't left.

Annalouiza (15:04.152)
The All Souls, right.

Annalouiza (15:11.534)
you

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:12.207)
and that they are still with us and that we can say thank you and we can bring out a bunch of food and share our food and our flowers and our, I mean, sticky rice or whatever, I remember the Asian ones that we looked at were, you know, the hungry ghost days in China. We're also the same thing. They would bring out lots of food and flowers and just let's all get together again, gather around and celebrate this time of year.

Annalouiza (15:16.11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

No, no, no.

Right.

Annalouiza (15:32.866)
Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (15:37.634)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:40.067)
We have that opportunity. We can change. We can make that change.

Annalouiza (15:42.199)
We do have the opportunity, something that I've never really understood. But so I guess like Veterans Day is it Veterans Day or Memorial Day in May when people go to visit veterans plots, right? Not necessarily everybody is just so does the US have have any kind of holiday to go to their loved ones grave?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (15:51.151)
Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:03.535)
I don't think so. think that's the only one. And some people do on Memorial Day go to their loved ones too. think they get that opportunity. mean, I think it's something so deep in our DNA that if we find a way or if we open ourselves to it, so many people we've talked to though on the podcast have mentioned that they've never ever been to the grave sites of their family. It's not something that's done anymore. one thing, yeah, for one thing we're so spread out that

Annalouiza (16:26.954)
Mm-hmm. That's commonly done. Mm-hmm.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:32.847)
The grave sites may be 2,000, 3,000 miles away, you know? And even if they weren't, you know, how many of us go and visit them? It's not a thing here as much as it is. And I think these cultural things we've talked about all sort of lend themselves to remembering, let's go visit them, let's go to the grave, and let's see that place where we left them behind, you know?

Annalouiza (16:36.8)
Right. Huh.

Annalouiza (16:55.768)
Yeah. Agreed.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (16:58.831)
Well, that's our call to action for all of you. Think about it, think about ways you can change this kind of disconnect. Find ways that you can reconnect.

Annalouiza (17:03.915)
Yes it is.

Annalouiza (17:10.85)
Well, and maybe Halloween is a really great opportunity to talk about death. Because what is it with your community or your loved ones that either bring a sense of horror and fear, or is it a natural ending, end of the season, autumnal delight? Which one is it? Which one are you fostering in your own space?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:15.287)
Absolutely, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:31.193)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (17:36.591)
Exactly. Yeah, we talk, I remember talking about in our class about preparation for end of life, that we should have a day of the year where we just get everybody together that we love and talk about how we want to die. You know? Yeah, yeah, Death party, right? Or dead party, like, birth, birth, birthday, death day, yeah. And yeah, it's, you know, so maybe Halloween's a perfect time for that, because it really does part of our DNA. If we think, if we let it, it can just really connect us back to the...

Annalouiza (17:48.462)
That's right, was it a dead day? Your dead day. Death party, that's right.

Annalouiza (17:59.926)
Maybe it is.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:05.697)
really, really ancient stuff that we know is in there that we can feel. It's an opportunity. So what a great way to talk about this stuff. Thank you for spending time, Andaluisa.

Annalouiza (18:07.426)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Annalouiza (18:14.978)
I agree. Well, thank you for, thank you for making space for us to like, you know, be curious about what this, this actually means. And also I hope more people are curious about why they do certain things. Like people just spin their wheels, doing the same thing over and over again without having a value system around what it is that they're doing. I'm like, why are you doing this?

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:28.719)
All

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:34.317)
Yeah. Right. This is one good example and there are many, more. Yeah. Yeah. So please come back and see our next podcast. And there's so many great people coming up. I can't wait to see you all there. So happy everything.

Annalouiza (18:40.312)
That's right. So reclaim it.

Annalouiza (18:46.486)
Yes!

Annalouiza (18:51.34)
That's right. Happy everything. Adios.

Rev Wakil David Matthews (18:55.361)
Adios.