Episode 1/4 The Case of the Poorly Picked Paint Color

Every good stager knows that whether a homeowner is preparing their place for sale or just updating it, paint is the least expensive but most effective improvement you can make. Today's case is about a poorly picked paint color.
A home seller consulted a stager to prepare their home for sale. The stager recommended they paint their home a popular shade of white by Sherwin Williams. Instead of heading to a Sherwin Williams store, they headed to a home improvement store, thinking they'd save a few bucks and had the paint person pick the paint color instead. The result, rather than a white was a yellow, which they then promptly painted their home in.
I'll be joined on this episode with Janet Miller a Designer Account Executive from Sherwin Williams to discuss all things paint for a home:

1.  Why whites are so popular with selling your home.
2. Why trying to match a specific color from one brand to another doesn't work.
3. As a paint expert your tried and true tips to pick the perfect paint?
4. As an insider, give us the scoop on paint color trends or your favorite colors for both selling and dwelling. 

Transcript

1.4 The Case of the Poorly Picked Paint Color

Hello, sleuths, and welcome to Only Stagers in the Building. Every good stager knows that whether a homeowner is preparing their place for sale or just updating it, paint is the least expensive but most effective improvement you can make. Today's case is about a poorly picked paint color. A home seller consulted a stager to prepare their home for sale. The stager recommended they paint their home a popular shade of white by Sherwin Williams. Instead of heading to a Sherwin Williams store. They headed instead to a home improvement store, thinking they'd save a few bucks and had the paint person pick the paint color instead. The result, rather than a popular white buy, Sherwin-Williams, was a yellow, which they then promptly painted their home in. I'll be joined today by Janet Miller from Sherwin Williams, a designer account executive here in the Chicagoland area, to solve this case of the poorly picked paint color. So, Janet, tell us a little bit about yourself. Well thank you. Thanks for having me on today. Um, I am a designer account executive for Sherwin Williams, and that's basically another term for saying that I'm a resource to designers and stagers. Hold on, hold on. It says recording failed to begin. Give me one second. Okay. Top of the screen. Yeah. Uh, I see a red light on top of the screen. Yeah, just give me a second. I'm going to hit. How do I hit? Stop here? That's where. This is. They ought to begin, huh? I'm going to hit. Stop sharing for a second. Mhm. Oh, no! Stop! Chanda, tell the listeners a bit about yourself. Thank you. And thanks for having me today. Um, my name is Janet Miller. I'm with Sherwin Williams. I'm the designer account executive. And that's basically another way of saying I'm a resource for designers and stagers, a resource for fan decks. Large color samples just help with color in general, especially those tricky undertones that we all run into. Yeah, I'm probably a bit about color matching as well. So let's discuss firstly why whites are so popular when selling your home. Sure. So we know we've seen whites trending for a while. Um, and there's a good reason for that. You know, whites in general are one color that bounce a lot of light off of itself and really open up and expand the space. And it makes your space feel even larger than it, you know, did otherwise. Um, but it's also universally appealing. It never really looks dated. Um, as long as you have the right, I say type of way, the right undertone of white that goes with the rest of your finishes. You're in pretty good shape. Um, it's very neutral in general, and it's also very good for people who are considering, you know, buying your home if you are in that stage of, of life where you're selling and you want those buyers to imagine their furniture or their accessories in your home, that's perfect. Backdrop. Yeah, absolutely. And interestingly, statistics on station statistics are very interesting because one of the biggest statistics show sort of, you know, clean your home on is light and bright. So the, you know, the psychology behind the potential buyer walking through the home that that feeling that it's light and bright and fresh is such an important value. When someone's considering purchasing a home and those lighter paint colors are so important, and exactly what you said that the whites are trendy. And I find that really interesting because, you know, for the longest time it was gray, gray, gray, you know, gray gray great great great great gray. great great. And then the wife seemed to kind of become more popular. So let me ask you this question too. We're talking about the white tones, too, that, you know, that prompted this whole podcast, um, about trying to color match a color that someone gives you and then it goes down the wrong path. So a lot of times, uh, the concerns of the seller of the home, or possibly if it's just a homeowner refreshing their home with a paint palette. Uh, what happens when you have, you know, the old oak, old oak house that was built in the late 90s or the early thousands to 2000, and you have fields and fields of oak trim in the hall, and they're concerned about that contrast that the oak is going to stand out really strong. Uh, when they decide on a white palette. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to make that that oak, especially the ones with the really orangey sort of undertone go away. But when you really use the right color of white, you know, the right undertone. As I said, it makes the wall look, you know, just as you said, fresh and really clean. Because that's one thing everyone's interested, whether you're a buyer or someone living in the home, you want your home to feel and, and, you know, really look clean and that the, you know, the right white is really going to stand out a lot against that oak trim in addition to whatever else you put around it. Right, absolutely. And it is interesting in terms of trends that the that white palette has become so popular. And it does give the person, whether they're living in the environment or they're prepping it to go on the market. It gives this environment that anything can kind of be dropped in. I was watching an HGTV show, um, over the weekend and it was like, I, you know, there's so many of them. It was like beach, you know, uh, unusual homes or I have an old home. I, I forgot what the name of the show is, but it was a beach home, um, in California. And, um, I'm not sure if they inherited it or they purchased it in a little town. They're not on the beach, but they're, you know, they're right off the beach. And when she showed the before pictures, it was a lot. It was a lot of wood, you know, think of that kind of a frame feel with the high ceilings, with the beams. And it was just wooden wooden paneling, wood. And I thought it was really interesting. What she said is that she just gave it a coat of white. Um, that way they can drop in their very quirky decor that the that the wood tones weren't going to compete with. What? With the product that they you know, there are things that they brought from their old home. And I thought it was just such a great way of depicting why you would choose a white palette to live with that. But that also translates into when you're selling your home to appeal to that prospective buyer, that your stuff will look great here, right? Right, right. And when you think about it, you've got a lot more wall space than you have typically like trim. You know, trim is, you know, a very thin line that runs, you know, along the floor sometimes along the ceiling line. And you're really seeing a lot more of that white wall, whatever you're painting than you are the trim. So of course you're going to have that fresh, clean look. That is going to be a great backdrop for any furnishings. Yeah. And whatever your trim is, whether it's oak, um, or uh, a paint, a painted hardwood that's walnut. Or if you remember, back in the 70s and 80s remember fruit wood, which is in between. What is it in between? Um, or they actually have an exotic hardwood that they have something that that is hard to match. You mentioned the undertones of things, too, and you know, your palette. The Sherwin-Williams palette has a huge array of of white and light colors. Um, so if you were to have that classic. Oh, come with that. What? You said it was that yellow or orange undertone. What? What's a great white without, you know, without throwing out 12 of them that come out to your mind. What are those undertones that can, you know, that can counteract some of those, those, um, warm tone undertones that people dislike? Sure. Um, one that comes to mind is a color called cotton, and it's in our, um, designer color collection, and it has a nice warm undertone without being too yellow. Um, another one that's very pleasant and pleasing. It's a little bit more of a looks more of like a true white, but it's still warmer. It's called Greek villa. Yeah. Great villa. Those are both great. Yeah. Now, um, the the white color question that prompted this podcast, uh, was Sochi white? Mhm. I know I gather a great white, too. Yes. Yeah. There's a very neutral, you know, undertone. It's a little warmer, but not as, um, it probably has a, you know, a tinge of a grayish, um, to warm, you know, so it's a little bit more balanced. It has a, it has that undertone that appealing neutral. Now with, with whites. That's interesting is so many people when they're purchasing homes today. Uh, if you have an older home that is not an open floor plan that has, you know, the, the these old standard boxy rooms that each one is established and you may not have this grand, you know, great room that has the kitchen going into the family room that everything's an open floor plan concept. The great thing about painting it one color, which is why stagers always recommend, you know, kind of a full sweep with a paint color is that, you know, a great paint color, especially in the in the whites will will give you that imagination that you're dropping the walls. The walls start dropping down because you have this one way Wait. White paint palette that as you move from room to room, those dividers become undivided because people start looking at it as a unity instead of all these little tiny boxes, you know, within the hall, right? Definitely. You're right, because you don't have to make your eye doesn't have to make that transition of going from one color to the next color to the next color. It just is a seamless transition. And it it just really makes everything even again, appear bigger, brighter, more open. Okay, so let's now solve the mystery of why the home sellers ended up with yellow walls and why batching paint doesn't always work. So what it is, is in a designer or stager, um, or whoever recommends the paint color, uh, the homeowner takes that paint number and goes hopping down along to another company, like a big box store or another paint shop. That's not Sherwin-Williams. What happens when somebody walks in and says, I need cotton by Sherwin-Williams or Greenville or Soggy White? And here's the number. And it's a different brand of paint. Yeah. I mean, so really there are a lot of variables, um, in that it makes it so tricky. You know, a more than one thing could go wrong. I mean, take, for instance, the person behind the counter helping you. If they're not really specializing in paint and tinting, that that's going to, you know, they're going to have a little bit wider margin for error there. Um, you mean all of yesterday? I mean, is it your Sunday? Yeah. They're that or they're filling in because that person is is not, you know, in that moment right from that department. They're from hardware. Right, exactly. So they're they're just sort of following this, you know, little list of instructions that's left behind for them. So it's that's, you know, one thing another thing is you said, you know, people march on down there with their the paint number. Sometimes they're walking in and saying, I want Navajo white. They're saying the name of the color and don't even think about the fact that probably eight, ten, maybe 20 manufacturers have a Navajo white. So who knows if they're using the correct formula from because they may not even have the correct brand. Um, that could be another issue. You also have, um, what goes what the actual makeup is of the brand of paint, you know, what is the base made of? And in general, all paint is made of the same four elements. It's just a question of the formulation and the quality of those ingredients that are in the can. So that can actually affect, you know, what color outcome is. Now, you know, another thing that people don't think about, um, even people in the industry is tinting your tinting capability. It can vary widely from one manufacturer to another. So there are some tinting systems out there that are excellent and give you, you know, really pinpoint accuracy, um, you know, in conjunction with the person who's doing it, who knows how to, um, arrive at the formula correctly. But, you know, if you don't know what their tinting system is, how can you have confidence in it? Right. Um, and, you know, it's interesting because you and I, you know, completely a different subject, but I guess it is the same subject is that you and I were chatting last week, and I'm working on a commercial project project that we're doing some branded paint colors with the brand, which is a, you know, just using a Pantone number and trying to match it to a brand of paint. And, you know, there's, you know, there's these formulas out there that you can put in and it does its best as best chance of trying to match the color, but it's not perfectly accurate. And then just as an example, over the weekend in preparation to this, I took a, um, uh, I can't remember what brand. You know, I have so many fan decks in my in my paint, my paint bag, but I, I picked a color and then I, you know, went over to a big box store and looked at whatever three lines of paint that they have, or two lines of paint that they have, and tried to find something that was as close as possible as I could find. And I had it. And I, you know, I've been in business for 25 years, so I have a I that's one of my gifts. I have a really good eye for color matching and color paint and things like that. That's like, you know, we all have our gifts or whatever. And I was just like, wow, this is really, really finding it fascinating since it's an subject that. You know, if you're going to pick a color. Go pick that color and just pick that brand. If you fall in love with that color. But don't try to find something close because you're not quite getting it. Because every paint company, whoever their color, um, what do they call the people who come up with with paint colors don't just color marketing or color people that they, you know, they they come up with this formula for a reason and they try to make it. Of course, Sherwin-Williams tries to make it unique and different that you're that this that cotton is the color that that another company might have it called cotton ball or right, your buddy cotton or something like that. But you're you're cotton has those couple little undertones that make it unique and different. And, you know, you try to find something close can people will say, oh, this one, you know, this brand is close enough and it's not. So I would rather have somebody get the color that they want on the wall than to try to to match it. And like you said, human error, right? Human error depending on the person mixing it. Um, the, uh, the program, if you want to call it her, the recipe, the right, the recipe, which is the chemicals that make up the paint brand. Uh, and then there's always room for, for error. Um, you know, they use a spectrophotometer for photo meters, right? They have a. Yeah, a spectral photometer. Yeah. So Tom and her and the thing that I found interesting that you just said is that they're not all the same, that each each company may use a slightly different another company for that product as well. Um, I always say it's kind of like, you know, we have, um, you know, trying to find, like go through your box of chargers for whatever you're trying to charge, and I don't. I know, right? And you thought that would be a generic thing in the in the year 2020, but it doesn't exist. Um, I did the same thing. There's all this room for error. So, you know, if you pick, if you pick a color by a certain company, there is, there is a dropdown menu, right. Of all these reasons why that color could go wrong. And, um, you know, I would think that in this case that, you know, the stodgy white was picked by Sherwin Williams, they, you know, they walked over to whatever the big box company, you know, store that they want to. And then the drop down menu happened. So it could be exactly what you said. It was a fill in for the person behind the counter for what? You know, whatever reason that person was would have been. You know, I think that it's so, you know, who knows, there might be more than one soldier white by a company. I don't think so, but I get your gist. What? You're saying the Navajo. Wyatt, we know that there's, like you said, there's, you know, eight different companies. Navajo, white. Um, he could have. He could he or she could have tried to match it like I was, you know, I was experimenting that they find something that's close to it. And then something went really, really wrong when the data was entered into the computer that mixes the paint, that the result was a yellow. Right. It's, it's there's so much out there. Yeah. And and again and I think, you know, going back to the spectrophotometer, I don't know if, um, there are also just to make sure the listeners are clear, there are also tools out there that are what we call color matching tools. Those tools, um, really will help you to accurately figure out what color of paint, let's say, is already on your wall. If you don't know what that color is, that's one tool. The spectrophotometer is something that's typically used in stores where they are tinting in it, and it's it's a little it's a little more sophisticated or a lot more sophisticated, and it doesn't just have, um, let's say a loaded menu of colors already known, you know, by by brand. It actually is reading all the RGB, Cmyk, all the values, and it's coming up and it's crossing. It's, um, matching all the database information. It has to come up with all the possible colors. You know, it might be. So those spectrophotometer bars are when they're calibrated, um, you know, regularly. They really are good at, you know, helping match colors around 90, 90% plus. So so what if that so what if this couple had gone into a big box store and actually had brought a chip of soggy white, and then the. The person working at the store had scanned it. Uh, would they think that you think that it would have been a little bit more accurate than getting whatever this yellow that they ended up with? Yeah. Very possibly could have my my kind of my question to that is I'm not even sure if the big box stores invest in those that type of technology because it's, it's very, you know, pricey and it requires daily calibration and it's in and it's directly connected to their tinting system. So I'm, I'm I may not be accurate, but I'm pretty certain they don't even use those in big box stores. So now with Assurance Williams, because it's a specialty store that they obviously have one. And now if you were to bring in say you're you have a mid-20th century modern bath and you have one of the, you know, the funky, funky tiles from the 50s, and you have that old bubblegum pink tile. Yes. And you would like to paint the walls that some color. So you can so you can bring that tile in and they could scan it and get a pretty good match for that bubblegum pink tile. Yeah. I mean, in general, things with a high shine like a tile are not going to, um, be as accurately picked up because of the all the reflection off of it. Yeah. So let's say if it were a matte tile 100%, you're going to get a really, really, really good match. Um, and they can, of course, you know, adjust it and then they can get it. So that not only is the, you know, the match is there according to what the computer says in the photo spectrophotometer, but also they can you can visually look at it and see if you know you and the person who's getting it matched, you know, agree that this is a good match. You know, of course, after it's dried down in a very similar sheen. Um, but they have adjusted those, uh, or they have kind of updated those machines to actually factor in a fair amount of the reflectance, reflectance. And they can get pretty accurate even with that too. But in general, you know, staying away from something that's highly reflective will give you a much better match for that color. But yeah, they the machines are very they're very sophisticated. So. So a couple a couple things on this subject. So number one, if somebody, somebody especially if you're going to be, you know, either hiring a professional to paint or doing it yourself, the key ingredient is if somebody picks out a certain brand of paint color is it's worth that, that that premium price to to go with that brand rather than an off brand or a different brand to give you that self-assurance that you're getting, you know, you're getting the right color. The second thing would be if you did go to a big box. You know, by chance or whatever to always check underneath the lid of the page. Exactly right. To make sure that it's not. It's it's a white rather than a yellow paint. All right. And I think it's also important on that factor too, that you just educate your client that they have this conversation that you and I are having today regarding the understanding how how the formula of paint works and how brands versus other brands work, and how those undertones, as well as the chemicals within the cans, all are a collection that make that perfect recipe of that beautiful color. Yeah, 100%. And it's also like when you think about, you're saying, you know, go. It's worth it to go to that, the brand that you're starting out with for that color and pay the premium. You know, every every manufacturer has more than one level, one, you know, type of pain. So you can still get the same color in other lines of paint within one one brand right from a mortar for, you know, kind of a middle of the line, affordable paint, brand new high tide all the way up to a premium, a premium brand depending on whatever your needs are as well. Yeah, exactly. And then um, so that so there's, there's kind of a conclusion of where, you know, where the color went wrong. So as a paint expert, what are some of your tried and true tips that you have that you've picked up over the years to, you know, to, to to either pick that perfect paint color or if you're executing it yourself, you know, what are some of your tips and tricks and advice you to give to, you know, the audience that are listening today from your expertise? Yeah. So a few things on this. I mean, if you if you know what color in general you're looking for, I always say, you know, look at all the possibilities. Bring. Bring the samples home. Just the paper samples. You know, you don't have to start out with buying 14 cans of paint to to paint various squares all over your room. But if you can take a lot of samples you're considering and then shortlist of just 3 or 4, then you could talk about purchasing that little, um, sample court and then putting that. Um, I always say instead of putting it on the wall over your existing color, I think it's smart to take a poster board, something with a white background and neutral background, paint a good two coats over that, let it dry. And then now you have this poster board. You can move around the room and see at different times of day with different lighting hitting it. You know, when it's morning, afternoon, evening, uh, with your artificial lights on, your overhead lights on. Just kind of live with it for a day or two and longer if you can, and seeing what it looks like in different settings. And by having that sample painted on your poster board, you can put it up into like corners that are up against your ceiling. You know where you can see it against the ceiling, and maybe your crown molding or on the floor so you can see it with your flooring and behind part of your furniture. So that's always one. One thing that I think is super important is don't just paint the squares or circles on their wall, but paint it on a poster board and then move that poster board around. Um, another thing would be if you're looking at, let's say, a fan deck to choose colors and you're staying towards the top because you want a lighter color. Look at the very bottom of that fan deck. I mean, most most of the cards in the fan deck, the pages and the fan deck are going to have something from a light to dark in the same color family. And as you move down that letdown strip, you're going to see a darker color. It's going to be very obvious. The color that's in that darker choice right in. And in the lighter version, it looks neutral. And you may not see a recognize what that undertone is. But if you look all the way to the bottom of the card and it's a darker, let's say, maroon, you're going to know that that lighter version of the neutral of the top of that stroke has some, some, you know, at least some red or maroon undertone that gets it to that, that color. So it's hard in a very small strip to see what that color is once it's painted on your wall, which is like a lot bigger. And now light is hitting it And it's easier if you just look at the bottom of that progression of colors to see what that undertone would be. Um, I know that I care about that with my clients all the time. And that was that was always interesting to when, you know, when grays were such a big, a big deal. And I would show them and just say, you know, just by the way, take a look at the most, you know, the most saturated dark color on that, you know, on that strip. And if you notice, it's purple. Yeah, exactly. It never was. And then you start saying, like you said, you started seeing those undertones so that that's a that's a super that's a really great, uh, a great suggestion for people who are just, you know, just looking at a fan back. Right. And it could save them a lot of time and money and frustration. You know, if you just know, you know how to do that, how to look for, like you said, that most saturated color on the strip. Um, another thing to I, I always suggest to people is that they're really having a hard time visualizing your new color, you know, whether it's on the poster board or not. Like let's say, you know, we would think about the Tuscan era, what everybody had so much, you know, gold and warmth and coziness. Right? It was it was a great time. But fast forward now that whites are bigger, first grays and then whites, you want to get rid of all that, that golden hue. And it might be hard still with your poster board of your new color to imagine it in the room. And I would say, you know, but it's really tricky. It may not be the most popular thing, you know, for me to say or to me to suggest, but you can paint at least one wall, if not two walls, a primer just like a white primer, and then put your new color over it, like whether it's a white or a gray or, you know, like a stone color or beige color. And it just it just helps it neutralize what that existing color is. Because if you have multiple layers of finishes and furniture in the room that are in that same family, it's really hard to see past that. So take as much out of the room as you can. Paint at least one wall with the primer and kind of get rid of that. Cancel out that last color, and it helps you to see what the new color will feel like and look like in the room. Those are great. Those are super great suggestions. Okay, so as an insider, give us the scoop on paint color trends or your favorite colors for both selling or dwelling. Well, I mean, some some people that are dwelling are actually choosing colors that people who are selling are so right. I feel like right now everybody wants that, you know, cleaner, more streamlined look, whether it's a warm tone or a cool tone. Um, and two of my favorites, like as far as, like a warm, a warmer tone, we have a color called dumpling. That's it's not, I guess you would call it a gray color. It's it it can pair fairly well with, um, colors that have a cooler undertone, you know, like on the blue, gray, green spectrum. Um, but it's also it's not super warm, like a beige would be either. It's, um, you know, fairly light, almost like a putty color. So I really liked that was pretty. Yeah. I really like is that in one of the newer, is that in the new newer fan that it is, it is, it's in that designer color collection, one from our Emerald Designer Edition line. Um, and then in the same fan deck, uh, a new favorite of mine is one called Lime Wash. And it's, it's probably a little more on the cooler end. You wouldn't you wouldn't really call it gray, but. Again. It's, it's a, it's a very fine like runs that fine line. It's a little bit lighter probably than dumpling. Both are very light neutrals and it, it pairs very well with even like warmer whites um with grays but also warmer wood tones. Um, and with both of them pair very well with color. Like if you really want to just go all in on some colorful bedding, some colorful accessories, both of these colors would be great. So, um, you know, this past year for 2020, for all the different paint companies were like, all over the place, like they were, you know, every every paint color was a different color. There was no continuity. Whereas the year before it was, you know, green, green, green, earth, green, green, green, which I think had a lot to do with kind of coming off of Covid, you know, outdoors in and, you know, I have to notice a lot of the, the shelves for magazines, um, as well as the TV. You can't really use television shows because so many of them were filmed, you know, could have been filmed a year or two years ago. But a shelter magazine will give you. And they've been really, really pushing. Um, I noticed that both in your palate and, you know, other, you know, major paint companies palettes, there's a lot of saturated colors, like, really, really bold colors. And for the, for, you know, for, for selling, um, I would say, you know, you're going to use those not so much on the walls, but you can be inspired by and use those in accessories or pillows or textiles or things like that because you know, you're it's about the it's about the environment that you're in, in the home that you're selling, not your, you know, personal taste, but incorrect flooring. This is a, you know, a great question for the dwelling person is how to use these really, really saturated colors that seem to be, you know, popping up all over the place. Yes. I mean, they're very, very popular and probably even more popular in certain demographics, you know, of age or where people live. So a couple of ways to use those is certainly like you mentioned, you know, using color in. Pillows or, you know, in small amounts. And that's true for accessorizing. But if you use you want to use it as a pain. Um, think of that same concept that just using a smaller amount like a smaller room. So a powder room or even you could even go all in on these darker colors, these more saturated colors in the dining room where you have, um, think about it as a room that you generally spend less time in. So you're not going to get so tired of that color because it's more of a special event space. And as you would know with staging, it depends on what you put around it, how you merchandise that room. So if you're putting a lot of reflective things like mirrors and metallics in there and, and, or, you know, very light furniture, very light upholstery fabrics, that's going to really offset the deep, you know, heavy feeling of a darker color. And I, I'm still seeing it. It's probably third or fourth year in a row now we're seeing color drenching where you take this saturated color and you use it on the walls, the trim. The ceiling. You know everything. All at what I just did. I just did that with a client. So I just did that. Nice. And we did, you know, her closet doors? We did her doors. We did the trim around. We did the trim around the windows. Um, it it's it it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Um, it is. And I really think to that and when it comes to the dwelling side is, um, I, you know, when I first started in the business and this is my 25th year, um, you know, you would go into people's homes for whether it was, you know, selling or dwelling, and you would walk into the room and the trim was painted a different color than the next room, or the next room or the next. And it was so it was so out of style. And, you know, then for decades, it was all, you know, all your trim is one color. So. Right. And right now over the past, you know, the past four years. Besides the color drenching, you're seeing the, the the trim being painted again too. And believe it or not, it's so funny. It falls all the way back to Martha Stewart. Now who really like. No, she didn't really. You know, she was a revolutionary when it came to the home environment. Yes. Making it attainable to people is that you're seeing that now again, that you, you know, you even see it in your flyers, you know, when you're doing your presentation for whatever the, you know, the, the, the with the, the new paint palettes for the year is now being transformed into people's homes. And I always think if I had everything old, as new as guided tour around, um, this actually is beautiful I think to that, you know, the what? Maybe we can, you know, talk about this really briefly too, is the technology. So that's something that I always find fascinating when I go to one of your workshops or, you know, your educational type of things is that you're always coming out with something new, there's always some kind of new pink line or whatnot. I think the last time I saw you, um, it was your self-leveling, um, enamel paint that was water bound. That was meant just for a sprayer that, you know, that just was just this beautiful paint that looked like it was an oil based, but it was a latex. So, um, there's always some new technology in the forefront, right? Yes. Oh, 100%. And it's I mean, what what we get oftentimes, you know, people ask us, so what's new, you know, is Sherwin-Williams and. It's it's not always about color. I mean, obviously there are new colors coming out or there are new pairings of color. You know, just said palettes, ways that you put color together is what makes them new and not so much the color itself. But we are finding more and more that not only is paint being used to transform a room by color and protect the substrate, because that's what it's doing, but we're also finding that because of technology, we're now giving it this third, um, use this third reason for being and we have so many things. Like you said, we have the Gallery series, which is a beautiful water based paint that sprays on cabinets, trim doors, and it looks like fine. I mean, it is just like the fine finish furnishings that come right from the factory. So you, you have this amazing ability to use paint out of a sprayer and get a look that comes straight from the factory, but we also have paints that their wall paints that help you really mitigate odors, um, mitigate the amount of off gassing that you get from VOCs, from new construction materials and really help improve your indoor air quality. So that's just. You know, using technology to your advantage to solve a problem or it just help your environment. And that too, for, um, you know, not for every home that's going on the market. I can totally see it on the residential level. But I think that that that information in that data for even the home that's being put on the market too, especially for, um, you know, what it should be for any buyer that this is, you know, this is a particular reuse of this particular brand of paint, um, because of the low VOCs or it's it's a it's good environmentally for you because I think that people that are just becoming more and more of a, you know, environmentally, um, uh, enlightened about the, the chemicals within our environment, which, you know, which we used to be able to run away from them. And now they're everywhere, right? Right, right. I think that that is, you know, if you want to fine tune your the information about the home that you're selling and like, as if you are going to go and invest in painting your home when it's going on the market to fine tune the obviously the brand and then even fine tune it one more step. To the type of product that you're using within that company, that you can use that as an advertising tool. To that, this home was painted with this type of paint. I have a client on the design client in the city that the they purchased it. They purchased a home. It's an old farmhouse that had been remodeled in the 90s poorly. And they moved into the home. And the wife proceeded to get sicker and sicker and sicker. And it turned out the home was making them say her sick. Oh, no. No. I had worked with them on the previous home, so they called me back in and they had actually gutted the house and were like redoing everything because of the the products that were used for the, for the remodel that was done in the 90s and it was so important to them about every product that went into the hall, from the drywall to the paint to the, you know, to every product to make sure that when she moved in that she wasn't going to get sick because her immune system is like shot. Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting. She told her she should write a book because, like, you know, the United States specialist on it, it's hard for them to track down people that worked in that in that realm. Um, and I didn't realize that it was actually a thing, that it was actually there are there there are people who actually are super, super sensitive that get sick, get sick from the environment, the whole environments that they're in. So it's true, I mean, because more and more we have we're surrounding ourselves with lots of materials that, you know, and, you know, back what, 30 years ago, you you could only find certain materials like, you know, wood. Would be your trim options. You know, you wouldn't have options of, you know, resins and things that are fiberglass. And now there are so many more options. And what goes into those materials, unfortunately, is something that does get off cast into the air, at least for a time like the first six months after you've installed it. But there are a lot more people out there that are very sensitive and that that really need to be careful about what they surround themselves with. Just like you said, I get I get calls like that not all the time, but enough that I have to keep a list of, you know, information on what what do we have that's completely zero VOC. Low VOC. And you just have lots of data sheets ready to go. And so that there that there is there are these there's options for people now. So. Right. So I think we kind we you know we definitely solve the mystery today. You know. And I think it kind of just goes back to just keeping it simple that if somebody, you know, specifies a paint just to use the brand that was just chosen, it just makes it just makes everything simple. So you don't fall off the ledge on everything that you and I just spoke about. So whether it's the person behind the counter or the the, you know, the chemicals within the can or miscommunication about the the name of the paint color that there might be companies that have that pain company and all the things that kind of trickle down into the results of yellow walls rather than Sochi, white walls like that. All right. Well, I think that people just I think also too, on the psychology side of it. If, you know, if the stager had just spoken to the client very simply and she and, you know, they might have done that. Um, that he hears, you know, here's your best bet. You know, selling a house is stressful. And it's, I think, in the top, you know, top five or top ten of things in your lifetime through the process of buying and selling a home. And let's just keep it easy. If I pick out, you know, if I pick out this brand of paint, just walk on down to the showroom and shop and they will take care of you. And you will get that color that I picked for you on your walls. You will sell your house quickly and on to your next chapter of home and call it a day. Uh, rather than trying to save, you know, $10 or, you know, whatever, you know, whatever the amount was. Um, yeah. If you're there's an open communication between people because even somebody who's been in, you know, I've been in the business for 25 years speaking to you for the past 45 minutes. Had I learned something new, like you learn, you always learn something new, and you can take that information and share it with the, you know, share, share it down the line with somebody else. Because, you know, everything changes very quickly and technology changes in the way things are done change. And if you just get the right information the first time, then you don't end up with yellow. Yellow. Yeah. Life is simpler, right? Yep. So any any final any final advice for, uh, our our listeners for today? You know, I, I think like, I'm going to just kind of go back to what you said. I really like that idea of the communication piece. You know, it's so important. And it really crosses over to every part of our lives. And we. Tend to, you know, think in our minds. Or at least I do, that. I've communicated something and I need to, you know, oftentimes rethink how I'm communicating and ask more questions to make sure that I am communicating what I thought I was. But I think that really does save a lot of heartache and a lot of, um, and so, you know, this is specific, you know, the whole podcast is kind of specifically geared toward either people who are in the business like I am or people who use people like me in the business, you know. No, you're you're my you're my designer paint shop. So I, I, you know, you and I communicate whether, you know, whatever my needs were. So for the average person, the average homeowner that's either selling or dwelling. Do they just then do they just walk, walk out into their their local Sherwin-Williams store and talk to the people at the store for their needs. Is that usually is that what you usually recommend? Yeah. I mean, when you say the needs, you mean just for product or whatever, maybe they have this and they want to have the same conversation that you and I just had? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they're they're very well versed, um, especially if you're talking to the store manager, the store assistant manager, they really understand, um, obviously the product well, the process. Well, and they're very well versed with color. And if they aren't, there's usually someone in the store who is um, but it's again something that they deal with every day and they really have a wealth of knowledge. Um, people in our stores do have, you know, a kind of a minimum base amount of color knowledge in terms of certifications. So at least you're not talking to, you know, someone off the street, right? Well, really, I feel like I'm, like, above that, you know? Then you can hire a professional like myself that, you know, I can help you with going down the line on that, too. Well, I believe that wraps up the case. I want to thank Janet Miller from Sherwin Williams today on solving the case of the poorly picked paint color. Until next time, sleuths. Boom! Boom boom boom boom. Boom boom. Boom! Boom!