John C. Maxwell Leadership Level 2: Permission

summary

In this episode, Branden Sewell explores the second level of John Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership: Permission. He discusses how building relationships and trust transforms leadership from mere authority to genuine influence, offering practical tips for developing this crucial skill.


 keywords

Leadership, John Maxwell, Five Levels of Leadership, Permission, Relationship Building, Trust, Leadership Development, Business Growth, Team Management


 key  topics

The second level of Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership: Permission
How relationships and trust influence leadership effectiveness
Practical ways to build relationships and trust with your team
The importance of caring and candor in leadership
Challenges and pitfalls of permission-based leadership


 guest  name




Titles

Unlocking Leadership Influence: The Power of Permission
John Maxwell's Level 2 Leadership Explained


 sound bites

"People don't care how much you know until they know you care"
"Care without candor creates dysfunctional relationships"
"Leaders touch a heart before they ask for a hand"


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Leadership Concepts
01:23 Understanding Permission Level Leadership
06:41 Building Relationships and Trust
11:45 Best Practices for Permission Leadership
16:00 Practical Tips for Team Engagement
20:50 Vulnerability and Team Trust
23:44 Conclusion and Call to Action

 resources

John Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership - https://www.amazon.com/Five-Levels-Leadership-Proven-Maxwell/dp/0785288376
Typeform - https://www.typeform.com/

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Transcript

Branden Sewell (00:01.122)
Hi, everybody, I'm Brandon Sewell. I'm the owner of SealPro Painting and the host of the Off the Ladder podcast. And we exist to help home service business owners learn so that they can lead well and ultimately live life off of the ladder. Welcome to today's episode. This is a Wednesday episode. So these are longer episodes that we do. And every other day we do a short episode. so this one is 15 minutes or more.

when I have guests on, usually the episodes go much longer. but what we've been doing is going through some John Maxwell leadership stuff. So on short days I'm doing a John Maxwell leadership devotional, and then on Wednesdays we are tackling this book called John Maxwell's Five Levels of Leadership.

so proven steps to maximize your potential. So if you're watching by video, there it is. I know that's not or it's mirrored, so you'll be reading it backwards, but that was that's what the cover looks like. John Maxwell has some great leadership books that you can check out. and so the first level of leadership that we had gone over.

was position and basically that was just talking about how people follow you because they have to. So it's because you are the owner, you are the boss, you're the leader. And so they just simply listen to you based off of your position. now today we're gonna talk about the next level of leadership which is permission. So that's when people follow you because they want to. Okay, so this is the next step.

So we're gonna what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna kinda just go through some notes and go through the book, this chapter, if you will, on this level of leadership, and talk about some main points that the book makes. so one of the first points that it makes is that the upside of permission level of leadership is that the workplace becomes more pleasant.

Branden Sewell (02:22.729)
and more enjoyable. And really, that really has to do with relationships. So once you've gotten to this level, you have invested into your team and you have started to build relationships, which really just makes the whole experience more enjoyable, right? People are following you because they want to. And again, that's that's the point of this.

You know, and with this level comes the opportunity for the reason why I think it gets better is you open up new levels of communication with your team. You're connecting with your team in a way that you maybe didn't before when you're just leading at the positional level. so now you're taking conversation to another level with your team to invest in them.

And show that you care about them, you're getting to know them. And really, again, you're building relationship with your team because you like your team and they like you. And so there's a connection that is is happening. So people begin to, you know, show up and they do better work because they understand that they are valued. so one of the next points that this goes on to make is that.

When you're leading at this level, you are valuing each individual person on your team. So you're you're no longer just overlooking your team. You're no longer just operating at a level of like, hey, just follow me and we've got to get stuff done. You're seeing each individual person and pouring care into them. You know, you you ask questions about their personal lives. You

Are digging into like what makes them who they are? What do they enjoy? Why do they work? Why do they do what they do? You're you're making the effort to make investment into relationship. and you know, ultimately what this does is it begins to nurture trust between you and your team. And so the more that your team feels like they can trust you as a leader.

Branden Sewell (04:45.837)
the more that they are going to be willing to follow you. So when you have a positional drive and you're just like, hey, do this because I said so, but you haven't invested in relationship, then you're gonna have less influence. so people or or there's a saying that says, people aren't going to care until they know how much you care about them or something like that.

People no, it's people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Something. but anyway, it's taking this initiative to to care. Like people aren't gonna listen to you in the same way, or with the same intentionality and and vigor and passion, if if they don't know you care. They're gonna respond in a completely different way.

Now the the next part that this goes into is it talks about how there the there's a downside to permission, permission, the permission level of leadership. and what that downside is, or this starts out by saying, is that ultimately the pressure is on you to build those positive relationships. So, right, you're the one who is taking on

all of that weight to gain permission to lead these people through relationships and trust. and this goes on to say that this leadership style could be you know too soft for some people. so you know they want to you know a players don't need to just be pacified right they don't just want to

have conversation and be a part of relationship and have you make them feel good. real A players, like that's part of it, but they also want to get stuff done. Right. So I've seen that in my leadership journey where I've tried to show people like, hey, I really care about you, but then when I let people in who affect the culture of like of A players who want to get things done and be effective, those A players can get

Branden Sewell (07:12.289)
bothered or feel like they like you're not genuine in your care if you let those weaker players in on the game if that makes sense and you don't remove them because they don't fit because it's both. It's like, hey I care and we get stuff done. so that that's a it's a really interesting dichotomy there. you know and then leading by permission, like I said, it's it's

it's frustrating for people who want to achieve something. So you you have to realize that A players are affected by B and C players, right? If

It's not saying that the B and the C players don't matter, that they don't have potential, but you have to be very careful that you don't let people who are driven by achievement get affected by the B and C players who maybe aren't there yet, who don't care about achieving. this also says permissional leaders can be taken advantage of. So that's another another downside to it.

And I can definitely say that. Like if you're not focusing on results, people who are manipulative and stuff, they'll they'll take advantage of the fact that like you care or you're showing that you care or building relationships with them and they'll take advantage of that relationship. it says permission leadership requires openness to be effective. So you

This says, you can impress people from a distance, but you must get close to influence them. That's something that author and pastor Rick Warren says. to quote from this book, an excerpt. Rick Warren also says the most essential quality for leadership is not perfection but credibility. People must be able to trust you. So I think if you're trying to build relationship from a distance, that's really challenging.

Branden Sewell (09:25.227)
Like you have to be willing to get close to people. next point says permission leadership is difficult for people who are not naturally likable. so that is a reality that some people just are not good with communication. Some people are just, you know, they they're not likable. And sometimes that takes you have to be self aware, if you're not a likable person and either make the changes or realize like, hey, maybe you're gonna cap out at

you know, level one because you don't know how to have relationships or build friendships or, you know, be a likable person. So that's gonna cap you out. the next point it makes is permission leadership forces you to deal with the whole person. you cannot build relationship just solely based on what people can do for you. I think that's really the

crux of this point is if you're going to build relationship with your team, you have to care about the whole person, not just the work that they do. You got to care about their their spouse, their kids, their hobbies, what they like to do for fun, what food they like, you know, what are their dreams, what are their ambitions, what are their goals, what are their struggles? and you have to start to get to know your people.

You can't just you know, say, you know, have relationship with them just about work. It's gotta go deeper than that. And that's that's how you get better results. it go goes on to this next part. It says best behaviors on level two. So how to gain people's permission. it says one of the first things you have to do is connect with yourself before trying to connect with others. you must be self-aware. You need to know.

you you need to have a good self image. You need to be honest with yourself. You need to be improving your spell yourself. you need to be responsible to yourself. So, you know, responsible to your goals, responsible to your vision, responsible to the mission, the things that you say you're gonna do. you have to develop a people oriented leadership style. So again, you just have to you have to care about people.

Branden Sewell (11:51.062)
It says, practice the golden rule. So do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Pretty straightforward. I like to think about that all the time. I like to ask myself, would I want to work for myself? Would I like me as a boss? What would I want from me as a boss? And if I'm not doing those things, then how can I expect other people to like me or want to build relationship or trust me?

If I'm not even being the boss that I would want for myself. so that's a big key. become the chief encourager of your team. so that's really good. this says, let's see, strike a balance between care and candor. So it says care without candor creates dysfunctional relationships. Candor without care creates distant relationships.

caring values the person while candor values the person's potential. so yeah, there's I think people are not just who they are on the surface, right? people have potential. And I think in previous episodes, I've talked about how, as a leader, you have to be able to see people's potential, and your job as a leader is to pull that potential out of them.

to help them discover it, to cultivate it, to walk in it, and to become the person that you see, the the you know, you as a leader, you should be able to see something in people. You should be able to develop something in people, to help them to fulfill what they were called to do, what they're called to be, to help them cultivate the gifts and the talents and the skills that they have. so

Care and candor. caring establishes the race relationship while candor expands the relationship. Caring defines the relationship while candor directs the relationship. And caring should never suppress candor, while candor should never displace caring. let's see.

Branden Sewell (14:15.809)
The laws of leadership at the permission level. So the law of influence, the true measure of leadership is influence, nothing more and nothing less. The law of addition, leaders add value by serving others. The law of solid ground, trust is the foundation of leadership. The law of magnetism, who you are is who you attract. The law of connection.

Leaders touch a heart before they ask for a hand. The law of buy-in. People buy into the leader, then the vision. Now, this is this next part is beliefs that help a leader move up to level three. One, relationships alone are not enough. Two, building relationships requires two-fold growth.

Three, achieving the vision as a team is worth risking the relationships. And that is all of the points for for that part. Now let's see, guide to growing to level growing through level two. it says first be sure you have the right attitude toward people. two connect with yourself.

three, understand where you're coming from. Four. Express value for each person on your team. Five. Evaluate where you are with your team. Six. Accept the whole person as a part of leading. Seven, make fun a goal. Eight. Give people your undivided attention. Nine. Become your team's encourager in chief. And ten. Practice care and candor.

I think that chapter is really simple. and to summarize it all is you have to you have to care about your team and you have to care in order to care about your team, you have to care about yourself. You have to work on yourself, you have to become a better leader. So if that is you, if you are watching this podcast and you're working on permission level leadership, it's simple. Invest in your people.

Branden Sewell (16:39.205)
here's a tip I have for you. Go on to typeform.com. Okay. create a survey for your entire team. I want you to include things in there that are personal to your team. when's your birthday? When is your spouse's birthday? When is your anniversary? Do you have kids? What are their names?

When are their birthdays? Where do you like to eat? What's your favorite hobby? Where do you like to shop? what is your favorite place to shop? What's your favorite candy bar? What's your favorite drink to drink during the day? Where's your favorite place to get lunch on a break? Ask those questions, right? And then what I want you to do is read through those answers that your team gives you and then do something for your team.

If there's a specific person on your team that you want to develop better relationship with, or there's, you know, someone that you're trying to invest in or create a better relationship with, meet them on a personal level. and go buy them their favorite lunch. Get them a gift card. And when they do something great or you know, have great results in what they're doing.

Give them a gift card to the place that they said was their favorite place to shop or something based around their hobby. When it's their anniversary, wish them a happy anniversary, pay for them to go to dinner with their spouse. You know, just invest into your people. I think another thing that is simple but can be overlooked is the power of a team meeting, right?

For years, I didn't do meetings with my team because I was just like, I don't want to waste my time or waste theirs. And then I was like, you know, just through studying leadership and studying successful businesses, it's like, man, I'm really missing the mark on this. So I started doing weekly team meetings. Everybody meets at the shop and we all come together as a team. Those meetings, I think, changed the trajectory of my business and the buy-in from.

Branden Sewell (19:04.077)
my team because in those meetings we have an opportunity to really connect. so that's that's a really big tip for me. give me just one second.

Branden Sewell (19:17.963)
Needed to drink some bean juice really quick. aka coffee. so that's that's just a practical s a couple practical things you can do with your employees. and I think really like

When you care about your employees, it's going to be genuine. another thing that I'll share, here's a tip on building real relationship and trust is don't just share your wins with your team. Okay. I had to learn this the hard way and come to a point of like I had no option but to bring my team in on

a challenge because I couldn't solve it without them. And what I realize now is that if I would have brought them into this problem sooner, I probably would have avoided the problem altogether. So what I want to say is that, and this isn't for everybody, but for your maybe for your high level management or your team leads, the the not the entire team, but

Maybe specifically managers. When you are going to face a challenge or you kind of see a challenge coming head on as a business owner, instead of walking through it alone, something that I found out more recently in the past few months is that by letting my team know and inviting them into their challenge, it built incredible trust. One, because my vulnerability.

And sharing the challenge with them was, I believe, showing them like, hey, he trusts us. He's letting us in on this, this weakness, this challenge, this struggle. And then two, it built trust with me, with them, because I was like, their response to the challenge was the exact opposite of what I anticipated. So I saw even further buy in from my team.

Branden Sewell (21:37.106)
which caused me to care and trust even more too. So I think, I think we can as leaders, we can be afraid to share some of the challenges with our team or to be transparent about when hard times are coming. But the reality is is the the people that are supposed to be there are going to stay in the mix midst of the the challenge. the people that you don't want there are going to be the ones who get up and

Away because of the challenge. And that's kind of the point that I came to. I was like, look, if you're not here in the good and bad, then I don't want you here. And if you're not willing to face the challenges and be here when there's some hard times and be a part of the team and part of the solution, then just get up and walk away. Because I don't want people around me who are only with me.

when it's good. I want people who are going to stand with me and walk with me even when it's hard and when it's challenging. It's kind of like marriage, you know, or relationships. You don't want somebody who is just going to be there when it's all good. you want somebody who's going to walk with you through the stuff, right? And be with you through the valleys. And so I think one of the things that can prove

whether something ha it has a lot of value or not or can be trusted is to go through the fire, is to go through the valley, is to be tested. And so don't be afraid to be vulnerable with your team and let see the challenges and invite them into the fire with you. invite them into the valley to walk with you through it and and you know put the the test

in their hands and see how they respond. And I think that's that's a pretty valuable thing. I think that's where really valuable relationships are forged, is not in the good times, but really in those challenging times. Well, I'm gonna bring this episode to a close. I hope you guys are getting something out of the five levels of leadership again.

Branden Sewell (24:00.609)
Go check this book out. Go get it for yourself. Start to read it. Start to study it. Figure out what level of leadership you are on. and study how to get to the next one and become a level five leader. I know that I think I have certain areas where I do better than others, but it's a constant growing process. So invest in your leadership, get that book.

Read it and work on getting better. I hope you guys have enjoyed this podcast episode. If you have, please share it. if you're watching on YouTube, please like this video, comment on it, send it to somebody, share it, subscribe to the YouTube channel. If you're listening on any major podcast platform, whether that's Apple or Spotify or any other major podcast platform, please rate and review this show.

and if you need resources for your business, check the show notes below. please, if you need one of those resources or you're gonna use one, please use my affiliate link. I do get credit if you use that. That's how it gets tracked. And I get credit, I get paid, which I really appreciate. And that helps to support me as well as the Off the Ladder podcast and continuing to do this and hopefully make it better and bring more value.

to you and this community over time. We want to help people get off the ladder and work on their business instead of in it and become the leader that you're called to be. so I invite you on that journey. please keep tuning in to the Off the Ladder podcast. Again, we've got longer episodes every Wednesday, short daily episodes every other day of the week.

that are fifteen or minute, fifteen minutes or less that you can listen to on the drive to work, at work, or on your way home. quick actionable leadership advice to help you right where you're at. I hope you have enjoyed this podcast episode. And as always, I will see you next time on the next episode of the Off the Ladder Podcast.