The Gospel According to Jeromy
Welcome to "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast, where faith, humor, and heartfelt stories collide in a lively conversation about life, love, and everything in between. Join your host Jeromy Deibler, along with co-hosts Jennifer Deibler and Drew Powell, as they share the Dieblers journey from being the acclaimed Christian band FFH to their current path in spiritual direction.
In this engaging and candid podcast, Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew offer a unique blend of perspectives on spirituality, mental health, emotional well-being, and personal growth. Drawing from their extensive experiences on the road and life's ups and downs, they explore the joys and challenges of faith, all while sprinkling in some humor along the way.
Get ready for spirited debates, deep dives into controversial thoughts, and heartwarming memories as they invite you into their world of faith, questions, and spiritual exploration. Whether you're a longtime believer, a spiritual seeker, or simply someone looking for meaningful conversations, "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast has something for everyone.
Tune in to join the conversation, laugh, learn, and be inspired as Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew navigate the twists and turns of life's spiritual journey. It's a podcast that's as diverse as their experiences and as authentic as their hearts. Subscribe today and embark on a captivating exploration of faith, laughter, and the adventure of the human spirit.
The Gospel According to Jeromy
Pain and Vulnerability with Scott Williamson
As we gathered around the microphone, Scott Williamson, the adventurous aviator known for "Pilot Eats Food," brought a feast of stories to our table, seasoned with laughter and vulnerability. From the rhythm of drumming to the unity of family and faith, Scott helped us navigate the skies of life's greatest challenges, including his own health reflections, with the grace of a seasoned pilot. Our conversation was a quilt of memories, stitched with threads of personal growth and the shared wisdom of walking alongside each other through life's unpredictable journey.
This episode is a mosaic of human experiences, where the personal meets the universal, and every listener finds a piece of themselves reflected back. We wander through the wonderland of neurodiversity, ponder the intricacies of the Enneagram, and confront the raw reality of stage four cancer with a family that stands resolute in the storm. There's a story here for every heart – the tale of a single parent bracing for the unknown, the musician interpreting life's compositions, and the personal quirks that make us all unique.
Join us as we celebrate the symphony of life with Scott Williamson, where every note resonates with the depth of our collective experiences. From the intimate reflections on chronic pain to the generational chord that ties us together, our discussion is an open invitation to be part of a community that revels in every high, supports through every low, and finds joy in the quirks that make our shared human experience so profoundly beautiful. This is not just an episode; it's a testament to the resilience and richness of life.
He told me, as long as lines are going up and down, where there are lines going up and down, and there's a counter. Yeah, hey, everybody, welcome to the Gospel. According to Jeremy, I have written down here all the content for this particular guest and it's by far twice as much than we've had with any other guests. There's a lot to say, there's a lot to Well.
Speaker 2:First of all, you have a A lot to apologize for from both of us this is Scott Williamson everybody.
Speaker 3:The pilot eats food.
Speaker 1:Yeah, host of the wildly, the pilot that eats food.
Speaker 2:It's not wildly popular, yet If you see my Instagram, you've seen me repost pilot eats food Really.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I repost it all the time. She's the one we got to get it viral. Yeah, we're going to do that. After we're done here, we're going to the for it. Okay, we're gonna. We're gonna make each other. You need to actually take her with you?
Speaker 1:no, if you want some good content? Um, so you got a mole happening. A mole, yeah, don't you have a thing you got and looked at tomorrow? Yeah, yes, we're talking about that. It's right here.
Speaker 2:Oh, ma'am, I already had it looked at and they said it's a cyst. But I I had one taken off here 13 years ago. That was like they said if you hadn't caught this it would have killed you. So I have to go in like every year and I've got. So this one. They said it's a cyst and it's not going away. I'm like this is not a cyst, so I'm going to have it looked at tomorrow well, you're not the darkest knife in the door. No, the dutch german thing took over dutch vanderkar On dad's side.
Speaker 3:You ain't Dutch, you ain't much.
Speaker 2:Amen Amen.
Speaker 3:I'm 49% Dutch.
Speaker 2:Are you, mm-hmm? Like you've had the, you went and did the thing.
Speaker 3:Well, I didn't go anywhere. I spit in a tube and sent it in.
Speaker 2:Okay, so they have your information.
Speaker 3:Good luck with that, oh yeah, China, they're ready to just China and Russia. They've got all my info.
Speaker 1:I just realized that the two of you together, without Drew, here may create some kind of vortex.
Speaker 3:We can gain up on you. Yes, we can.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 3:I love it Finally, my people.
Speaker 1:So let me just give the people who are listening, who don't know you and who haven't read my book a little bit of background. Scott Williamson is one of the first people Jennifer and I worked I worked with when we moved to nashville probably known each other for almost 30 years, scott is if there is a person responsible for the success of our careers.
Speaker 1:It is scott yeah whenever you walk in the door, even now, as close of friends as we are, there's a little intimidation in me. That's like Scott's here, like we met John Mays first and we said, john, we really do want to make another record, even if we don't sign a record deal. Do you have a recommendation for producers? And he said I do. He's a little quirky, that's an understatement.
Speaker 2:A little touch of the tism.
Speaker 1:But you might want to call scott williamson hey, your glasses are on your neck.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you care about that.
Speaker 1:I don't want them there um, but anyways, I'm so grateful that you're here I'm honored that you would come on our podcast yes I'm nobody.
Speaker 2:I'm just a guy that tells you no, pitchy, that's it, that's what I do.
Speaker 3:He does it in such a mean way. Well, it got better. Do it again. Yeah, that's pitchy, yeah Idiot. It got better it felt like that a little bit sometimes.
Speaker 1:We'll just have my sisters do it oh.
Speaker 3:He never said that, but I felt that but you knew I was thinking it, I totally knew you were thinking it.
Speaker 2:Well, see when you grow up. My dad taught us to vocal, arrange and how to sing in the studio and my sisters were session singers. So when I started producing people that weren't in my family, who did not live in the studio every day when that's your whole world, that's what you do, but people who don't sing. If you sing live all the time you come in the studio and put headphones on, your whole pitch center goes out the window. I was what that's assuming you've had one.
Speaker 3:That's true.
Speaker 2:Well, that's if you started with one it just took me a minute to realize you can't treat people poorly because they don't do everything no nobody, I never worked with.
Speaker 1:I don't remember working with anybody that quote unquote sucked it's. Just being in the studio is volatile, yeah, and it's different and really directing the creative process and we were, you know, we had done everything we could with just us, and then there was, like this weird magic, when we started working with you. It was volatile but it was amazing and we made a record together, an independent record.
Speaker 2:I remember you came over to the house and I was listening to a lot of Duncan Sheik at the time.
Speaker 1:That's right, I remember that. And I played you a song called Breathe In Me and I played you a Duncan Sheik track and you just said, yeah, we got this.
Speaker 2:This would have been late 96 or very early 97.
Speaker 3:Really Okay. We were in Sheridan Hills apartment.
Speaker 2:We were we were in that. That's right Over in the Nippers.
Speaker 3:Corner yeah Over in the Brindioc area.
Speaker 1:And I remember you said you know what we should do. I've been working on this Smitty session. We should hire some of those people. I really like those guys. Let's kind of combine what you do, I'll produce it. We'll be at the Bennett House, which of course we knew what it was. Yeah, at the time it was still legendary. I remember that night going to bed before that session, thinking tomorrow things are going to be different Really and they were. I mean, the song happened, the record happened.
Speaker 2:It sold, you know, almost $500,000. No, we did the single first right, yeah Well it didn't even end up being the single.
Speaker 3:It was just sort of a test run for us, as I recall, and then we finished. It's a single, we did. Did it end up on one of these days? It did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But what happened was we made that single and independent music now is kind of a thing Right, but at the time we made an independent single. And it charted before you got a record deal and so well and we used all those amazing players.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, it was un, it was kind of it was unheard of to be able to have an independent song with the people we had and with the studio. I mean the whole.
Speaker 2:Thing now it's commonplace. But yeah, this is 27, 26, 7 years ago.
Speaker 1:But you always got me. I would write a song and for the most part you'd go oh yeah, jerem, I got that, like you knew exactly.
Speaker 2:And so we did, probably. I remember hating all of them. Yeah. Well, there were a few that you were like Jerem. No, we're not. Well, that always. First, I was joking. Second, that always does happen. I mean that's part of a producer's role is to help be an audience and be objective and help a songwriter know if he's on to something or not.
Speaker 1:And our relationship you and I's relationship with Beeson was so good because he trusted us, so he was just like yeah, make a record.
Speaker 2:They hardly showed up when we were making records. I know Now. I know how unheard of that was we didn't know.
Speaker 3:We were just like sweet, we just had a great experience, and now we've heard horrible stories. Yeah. The thing about you being moody, though I kind of. I mean, first of all, I hadn't sung ever, ever in the car. I mean that was it.
Speaker 2:And then I come in there and try to sing in studio and it was terrible but then it wasn't terrible.
Speaker 3:No, I was terrible, but it was also a very frustrating thing, then I mean, we didn't have, we didn't have any tuning.
Speaker 2:We had the four of us around one microphone trying to blend. I mean, you just did it till, it was right. Now you can get a great performance that has some pitch issues. Okay, we'll never get that performance again. I can fix the pitch At this point. You might get a great performance. That was terribly pitchy. Also, there's four of you around a mic three or four of you. So if one person screws up, nope, got to start over.
Speaker 3:Oh, it was grueling.
Speaker 2:It was grueling. It was grueling not only that it was.
Speaker 1:There's so much this is going to be inside baseball for recording and music, but there's so much that I want to talk to you. That has nothing to do with recording, but I mean, you're one of the most interesting people I have ever met.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm tell Vanessa that you're famous in our house.
Speaker 1:We're not famous in yours, but even Seth're famous in our house. We're not famous in yours. But even Seth is famous in our house.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, we talk about Seth a lot.
Speaker 1:So Scott and Vanessa have three kids and another.
Speaker 2:I was going to say you've got three. Fourth, big surprise.
Speaker 1:So you've got three kids plus another one, and Maddox is hilarious.
Speaker 2:Yes, smarter than all of us I mean that kid.
Speaker 3:Every time you post him on there I read I mean, he is amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, there's so much for us to talk about.
Speaker 3:We got to talk about our dads.
Speaker 1:We got to talk about drumming. We got to talk about Vanessa. We got to talk about the Hindenburg, we got to talk about vocabulary. You know, I vocabulary, you know, I don't know if you know this when this bridge just fell down this week, I thought of you.
Speaker 2:I thought I wonder if he'll be into that. Like you know, some like disasters, it's just oh gosh. No, I don't know much about that. I just saw the horrible footage and she's well yeah I mean this.
Speaker 3:I've been on that bridge. What's the count up to?
Speaker 2:I think there was just like six or eight, they went into action and got the traffic off of the bridge. So the only people I'm aware of that perished were the. There were workmen. You can see, you can see the lights of the truck, like right about at the midpoint, and they just, it's absolutely terrifying, just awful, awful.
Speaker 1:It is so awful, and I don't want to minimize anyone's pain, but the first time that I saw it, of course, the ship was moving slowly, yeah, and so they had it sped up. It was time-lapse, and it just looked kind of like donk, yeah, I mean it looked like some stop-motion thing Hutch would make, yes, and I was like I've been on this bridge and it seems really long.
Speaker 1:It looks like a train set, but then I realized, oh, they can't play the whole thing because it would take an hour. But yeah, so let's get into the Hindenburg. This is what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 3:This is what we're going to talk about, Scott.
Speaker 1:I mean you said you're a little bit on the spectrum, is that probably?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've never been diagnosed, but aren't we all I mean it seems?
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, that's right both of you are all right, so anyways. So um, yeah, probably a little bit. Just looking back at my life and some of the mistakes that I've made, that I felt like I have no control over looking back and I'm thinking, well, I'll just tell people.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm a little on the spectrum, that's my excuse no, I would agree, it's actually true, but no, no, I mean, I do this work now and I would agree well, you know me, I would agree that both of you have a bit of a touch of the tism when did you first see the Hindenburg thing?
Speaker 2:Six-ish, six or seven.
Speaker 1:And it was just like I got to know more.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think you know every little boy is probably part pyromaniac, so you'd see a burning thing and it's fascinating. And I don't. I've always been, and Maddox, my nine-year-old, has this too. I get fixated on something.
Speaker 2:I really I want to learn everything about it. And I want to say I was like at my dentist's office and there was an encyclopedia that I was looking through and I saw the famous picture and it fascinated me. And I'm not I, you know, I still go through phases now where I'll go look stuff up and reacquaint myself with it and I'm still really interested, but not like I was. It started to taper off a little bit, probably in my forties, Um, just because I.
Speaker 2:I well, I felt like. I felt like no one else in the world cares about that.
Speaker 1:I think I've learned everything that I have You've been to the site and all that?
Speaker 2:No, you know what it's a? It's still a military base, and so you have to go by appointment, like only on Thursdays or something. I've flown over it on a commercial flight.
Speaker 1:Did you have a little tingle? No, nothing happened in your body.
Speaker 2:No, Okay, so gross. I did go so gross. I went to Friedrichshafen. Friedrichshafen. Friedrichshafen is how it's spelled, but I think the Germans say Friedershafen. I think that's right. God, I hope I'm not making it.
Speaker 1:Friedershafen yes, just like that you might want to back up from the mic if you're going to do German. I mean, just when you do German, it's loud you might Stay on the mic.
Speaker 3:Listen, I can't help it.
Speaker 1:Germans are loud, but when you do the German stuff, I'm flipping you off in my mind, yeah, just yeah, yeah, so there's the Zeppelin Museum, okay. A lot of blimps there. Blimps.
Speaker 2:You just did that he loves to do that to you. That's more inside baseball, but it is a dirigible. It is a Zeppelin. It is not a blimp. The Goodyear blimp is a blimp. It's a separate construction process, separate design. It is not a blimp.
Speaker 3:Are you a Led Zeppelin fan because of it? The band yes.
Speaker 2:Has nothing to do with the Hindenburg.
Speaker 3:I realize.
Speaker 2:I mean, who's not a Led Zeppelin fan?
Speaker 1:I'm not yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, good to know.
Speaker 1:Could you even name one Zeppelin song or band? Member no.
Speaker 3:No idea.
Speaker 1:I mean, maybe one of the greatest rock bands of all time.
Speaker 2:Really yes.
Speaker 3:Let's just check your Asperger's.
Speaker 1:Hindenburg.
Speaker 2:I wonder for your Asperger's? Oh gosh, let's just check your-.
Speaker 3:No, it's been a while so you may he's a little rusty on his Hindenburg.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rigid Zeppelins used to carry their rich and well-to-do across the Atlantic in style, but after the Hindenburg disaster, in which a German airship caught fire and crashed in New Jersey on May the 6th 1937, the industry went belly up.
Speaker 4:Here are things you may not know, about the ill-flated flying machines, about the ill-flated flying machine Ill-flated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Hindenburg was partially funded by this party.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the Nazis, Correct?
Speaker 1:The Hindenburg was named after a former German Chancellor. Correct, yeah, the Hindenburg was supposed to be filled with Helium, but chancellor correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the hindenburg was supposed to be filled with helium, but well, the at the time, uh, only the us had helium, and we weren't sure what hitler would do with it if we gave it to what was used instead hydrogen right, seven million cubic feet of it now, this is not that is not too. You're not propelling the hindenburg with it. This is simply a lifting agent.
Speaker 1:Right the Hindenburg made an appearance at the 1936 Olympics. The Hindenburg's fares weren't cheap.
Speaker 2:No, they weren't. I don't know what to adjust for inflation, but it was $400 or $500 at the time.
Speaker 1:Exactly $450.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, which you know. Figure that out with an inflation calculator Would be $8,000 today.
Speaker 1:Oh you did it. No, no, I didn't. Oh you, I am reading oh my gosh, I can't. Facts from the Google. Yeah, so far we are eight in and you've missed none, so you definitely have some kind of Asperger's.
Speaker 3:You've got definitely a touch of something. Asperger's isn't a thing anymore, right? No, they took that away.
Speaker 1:Okay, number nine. The death toll of the Hindenburg was surprisingly low. There were blank passengers 97.
Speaker 2:Correct, and of those in total, 62 passengers and one on the ground. Correct, how many people died? Oh sorry, 35 passengers and one on the ground, so 36 total yeah, so when it hit, it killed somebody. Somebody near the tail, which is the first thing that fell. I think he got his leg caught on a rail and couldn't get out fast enough.
Speaker 1:Herb Morrison's voice is distorted in his famous recording recounting the Hindenburg disaster. His most famous line is the now iconic oh the humanity, oh the humanity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lots of people still say it and don't know where that comes from.
Speaker 1:All right, here's the one that I put one on here that I'm sure I thought you would miss Werner Dörner, the Hindenburg disaster's last survivor, passed away on November 8th 2000.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's just, it's been recent, but I don't remember. I want to see it's been in the last five years. Yeah, 2019. 19. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, you got all 10 and you were close on the bonus 10.5,. We'll call it Okay. There's a problem?
Speaker 3:So you're saying there's a problem.
Speaker 2:There's so much more to know about it that I don't I. There are people, um, who actually are interested in this and still research it because they never really came up with a definitive conclusion as to what happened. So there are still people that look at it and research it and they know. When I look at some of their stuff, I'm like, oh, I don't know anything about this.
Speaker 1:So really, yeah, but you, you know that's enough, enough to be to for it to be problematic I mean I would say I mean I'm, you know, I work with some people who have a bit of the tism and I mean this is yeah, this is why you brought me on is to on it's an intervention actually that was a bit of a surprise that you knew that much so quickly and he's rusty and he's rusty. We do a lot of Hindenburg content. I think we need to move on.
Speaker 3:I will say that we've lost a lot of people by now.
Speaker 1:I worked with a guy one time in the studio actually, and between every take he was always looking at the same thing on his laptop and then we would go into the control room and he was looking at the same thing again and and it wasn't porn no, no, it was uh it was saying it was.
Speaker 1:It was like a naval aviation kind kind of like, and so we got in the car to uh, we got in my car to um go to lunch and this might have been the second day or something and he was in the back seat. There was, it was in our your old montero, so two in the front, three in the back, and he was talking to one of the other guys and he said you might have noticed that I have kind of this obsession and we all were like well, yeah, we did and he goes well.
Speaker 2:You, I have.
Speaker 1:Asperger's and I had never heard the term. So I'm in the front seat and the guy behind me says he has Asperger's and my first thing was man, that must hurt so bad. Like I know what a hemorrhoid is, and this guy's, and so I. Of course it was back with no one you know. I didn't know what that was, and so he eventually explained it, but I could never get out of my mind that this asperger sounds so painful how does it feel?
Speaker 3:but you would know I think you might have worked with this same- guy I did so yeah, what a great guitar oh, and a great guy.
Speaker 2:He was just obsessed with aviation, obsessed with it.
Speaker 3:And kind of like you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't. I knew him. I would say his obsession went deeper than mine. We talked about it a little bit. I mean, I had my pilot's license by that point, but he just wanted to just talk about it nonstop. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Disaster porn. It's a thing. There are a lot of YouTube videos that you just go down the disaster hole. In fact, john Mays is into animals attacking each other.
Speaker 3:I don't know that he's into it. That's what his algorithm is, sending him in reels and stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what he sends to me.
Speaker 3:I realized, but I don't know that he's like searching it out. I think it's coming to him.
Speaker 1:Okay, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:I don't, yeah, I don't know that he well I feel like that's what he said on the podcast, and usually you have to if it's, if it's in your algorithm, there's some reason for it. You know Well if you watch, if it comes to you, you watch it.
Speaker 3:Then they keep doing it Right, so yeah. I don't know. You make it sound like he's googzing.
Speaker 2:Well, who knows? Yeah, who knows, john Mays.
Speaker 1:That's true, he's a little who knows the mind of John, that's true.
Speaker 3:You never know. That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:He is an avid listener to the podcast, so his episode was so. It was fabulous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean and that's funny that you say he's fabulous because I got so many comments after that of people that actually know him going. It was so great to hear him. Great guy, great history, like I. Hopefully we have him on again. I'd love to have him as a recurring. Oh, by the way, drew didn't quit. I forgot to mention this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what the heck. So we're down one.
Speaker 1:Drew's parents came in town. He was going to be on this podcast, but he came over you guys cross each other in the driveway right and he set us all up.
Speaker 3:He set us up, but I'm supposed to run the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is it still going? Are the lights? I hope Lights are going.
Speaker 2:Check that Make sure the camera's still moving.
Speaker 3:Because this is me in control of things.
Speaker 2:It's exciting. Is there a counter? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um. But so I wonder though like did you when you started playing drums? Were you also obsessed with that? Like did you have to get like? How fast did you? So you're an unbelievable drummer. How fast did you get good?
Speaker 2:Well, so here's the thing I'm not good at much. So the stuff that I'm good at, I have tried to excel to the fullest possible extent you mean drumming styles or you're not good at much of life.
Speaker 2:I'm not good at much of anything except music. One of the reasons I learned to fly is because I just wanted another skill and I had to work really hard to get my pilot's license. I never went to college, so I never like I wanted it bad and so I just I took what was coming to me to get the pilot's license. But, to answer your question, it came pretty naturally. I started my mom says that I was, you know, banging on anything I could find from the time I was two or three Got my first drum set when I was nine or 10. So the coordination was never a problem for me. I just had to work out all of the details.
Speaker 1:I never practiced Did you study rudiments and stuff? I?
Speaker 2:did, but I never practiced what I was supposed to. My teachers were always frustrated because I would just woodshed, I would put on headphones and listen to records and I wanted to be a studio musician. I thought I knew that pretty early, my dad. I grew up around either I was at church or at the studio, that's yeah.
Speaker 1:Your kind of your childhood was similar to Hutch's probably.
Speaker 2:Probably yeah, yeah, yeah. So I knew what I wanted to do. I spent all of my time on that, and do you?
Speaker 1:remember like an age like where, where it went from good drummer to oh my gosh, I can't believe. But I also had some experience.
Speaker 2:There's the most notable experience. There's a drummer and any of you who are into drum lore will know who this is a guy named Gary Novak, who is a world-class jazz fusion drummer but who, like I, loved jazz. I play jazz, um, but I was primarily focused on being a session player. He's a guy that does not dabble in jazz, but he can also be a session player. He's that well-versed. There's not a ton of guys who are that rounded and the first time we were maybe a year apart. My memory is that he's about a year older than me and he came to LA for a little bit and was hanging out with some friends of mine. So there was a period where I think he had moved from Chicago, if memory serves, and we would go and we would play to these Dave Weckl music, minus one things, and I was playing pretty darn well at this point. How old are you then? 18, 17, 18.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. And then I heard Gary play.
Speaker 3:And he was only a year older than you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, give or take maybe two, and I remember thinking I'm done, this is it. If I practiced six hours a day every day for the next five years, I'll never play like that.
Speaker 1:Man, that's funny. That story sounds familiar.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you know who that happened with me, with you.
Speaker 2:Well, so what happened is? Gary came over to me at one of these sessions we were doing and he said man, your pocket is amazing, when are you getting that from? And I went aha, aha, I have something here. And I realized at that point I want to be a studio musician. I like all of this facility. I could kind of skirt the edges of his facility. As a player I could not do what he was doing, but I had what was necessary to do, what I wanted to do with the instrument. So I don't know if that answers your question.
Speaker 2:No, it does, but that was a real pivotal moment for me. It does.
Speaker 1:I do think you know this happened with me. Of course I never got that good at an instrument. I noticed it happened with me. Of course I never got that good at an instrument. I noticed it happened with Hutch. It was like a year that it just was like music just made sense to him and all of a sudden he went from being good at music to. It just made sense. Now I know Jennifer loves jazz so she was way into that conversation we just had, oh I love jazz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just play the right notes. That's most people's view of jazz, so she was way into that conversation we just had. Oh, I love jazz, yeah, just play the right notes you know that's most people's view of jazz.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're like the girl in La La Land.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I hear it, I hate it.
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:you don't like jazz.
Speaker 3:I mean when I hear it, I don't like it.
Speaker 2:Listen, my daughter. I know exactly how you feel because my daughter and my wife are Broadway fanatics. Oh. And I don't get it. How can you?
Speaker 3:not get Broadway music.
Speaker 2:Well, how can you not get jazz? Actually, that's an unfair question. That is, you really do Even jazz musicians. I think some of them are maybe self-aware enough to know this is not for everybody.
Speaker 3:It's just so weird and you're hitting stuff that almost doesn't sound right.
Speaker 2:That's not how I would describe jazz, but I totally understand. It's like when I go to my accountant and I've said this before anybody that's ever heard me do anything else well, this is redundant, but I just want my accountant to save me money on taxes legally. I have no idea what he's doing. Yeah, and I don't care, right, I don't want to know. Right, I am not interested. It bores me to tears. So that, I think, is how most people listen to jazz. They're like what is this?
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, but for how much would I have to pay you to stop playing music tonight? That's how she feels about jazz.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know that I'm that strong.
Speaker 1:Well, when there's bad jazz playing at a restaurant, if it's bad, well my gosh. That's kind of how I feel, I think everyone hates bad jazz If it's good though I can appreciate.
Speaker 3:A lot of times I can appreciate.
Speaker 1:That feels like a shirt. A shirt Everyone hates bad jazz. Everyone hates bad jazz, duh.
Speaker 3:There you go or abandon.
Speaker 2:Who gets to decide what's bad? See, now we've gotten into moral relativism.
Speaker 1:This is a nice segue. It may actually because you and I have never talked about the Enneagram you may have averse reactions to it, I'm sure, a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:My experience is that it's been helpful, but I wonder have you ever looked at it at all? No, I am. I don't know what I think about the Enneagram. I have some really dear friends who are very into it you among them. I have some very dear friends who really think it's dangerous. And I find myself stuck in the middle. Having said that, the people who know the Enneagram and are around me, they say you're an eight, they say you're an eight with a, and I don't know what that means. Yeah, they tell me.
Speaker 4:Or somebody said I was a- Well, it's pointless if you don't know what it means Something with a one or a nine?
Speaker 2:wing or something. Look, you are a one, I'm a one.
Speaker 1:Well, you have Let me just tell you what you are you have an internal critic that knows the right way to do something and you're going to get. That's why our records are so good, because you wouldn't let it go out of the room with it being subpar. You weren't going to go. Oh well, I mean, you ones reform everything to where you know a one can walk into. If this is their thing, they can walk into a room and go. Okay, I know what needs to change here. You're that way with. You're that way with vocabulary.
Speaker 3:Like if someone says something wrong you have to go listen Less now than I used to, but it used to be the waiter that was waiting on us at lunch.
Speaker 1:Well, for all intents and purposes, Scott, you go. No, listen, I'm sorry, I need to stop you. It's for all intents and purposes.
Speaker 2:But see, as you get older, what I thought I was doing was helping somebody to not end up looking stupid in some future conversation. What I might have actually been doing. Well, maybe I saved them from feeling stupid later, but they sure feel stupid now Because I just. That's not so. I don't know what the right way to handle that is.
Speaker 1:But yes, you're right, language words are important to me, but if you are, if you I don't think anybody is a number, I think that kind of that kind of live in that space. If you're in the one space, you have the internal critic first, which means you hold yourself to the standard, like I would never say that stupid word. And so I will tell you to help you not say, you know pretty muchly or whatever.
Speaker 2:Muchly, pretty muchly. That's Michael Boggs man. It is so hard knowing when to speak into somebody's what you think is an error, yeah, and when to say you know what. The Lord will deal with this later. I'm not the person to speak into that the Lord will deal with their vocabulary. Well, obviously, I'm thinking of something more important than vocabulary, but you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I do, I totally do Like just knowing, trying to.
Speaker 2:When you're younger and you're just full of testosterone, you just, you want to fix everything, and that's always been my default is just fix it, fix it. Well, the older you get, the more you realize this is not working.
Speaker 3:Do you think too, you just get tired oh gosh. It's like you know what? I can't fix it. This isn't going to fix this idiot. Well, she has a lot of Enneagram 1 energy too.
Speaker 1:Now it's in different things, but if there is sort of an you know an elephant in the room, jennifer's like we got to get this out, let's you know but is that a one thing? Well, you are a reformer.
Speaker 2:I don't you know yeah, I, I mean you. I have to admit I'm uncomfortable with any of conversations because my reformer that if I am a one, you say there's part of me that's like this. Anything that came from automatic writing is troublesome to me. But also when I hear people like you articulate the benefits of it, I mean I get that. So I go back and forth between well, there's benefits to a lot of things that are bad for us. I just don't know. I'm also honestly Enneagram or anything else. I tend to resist any attempt to put people into it Me too, because everyone is. There's not going to be any pure one or pure eight or pure seven. So it's. These are the tricky things too. But so why is it that somebody would have told me they thought I was an eight? What? What is an eight? Well, you.
Speaker 1:I mean, the eight is sort of the challenger. Um, okay, well, but I, having known you for you know however long your motivations are usually to make things better You're you're doing the things you're doing because you have an internal compass that says no, there's a right way to do this. We unload the dishwasher and we reload it the right way, because there's a right way.
Speaker 2:So would you. Are you saying that an eight would be just more contrarian? For its own sake?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. An eight's question is always who's in?
Speaker 2:charge oh interesting.
Speaker 1:See. That's where the Enneagram breaks down. You cannot use the Enneagram like it can't be like a rubric, like a thing, that's just, you have to go. Well, okay, if you're there, then this is what health looks like. We move forward, and so it doesn't make sense to talk about the Enneagram if somebody doesn't know what we're talking about. I see.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I'm the wrong guy, but I get it, I get what you're yeah.
Speaker 3:You need to go that way because you're going to have that thing in your face the whole time. What thing? That arm? Oh, oh, that pole.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So that's, right you are engineering this, I am in charge. Yeah, let me, oh, so the eight would have.
Speaker 2:That's would be helpful to an eight.
Speaker 3:Now they know who's in charge.
Speaker 2:Well, we do. That's a callback.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just a little. I just want you know I don't for all, and what is the one? The I couldn't care less.
Speaker 2:That's correct.
Speaker 1:That's correct. Yeah, man, when people say I could care less, I just want to go, but that means you don't really care as much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or you could care more. There's a possibility that you could care less. No, couldn't. Yeah, I could not care less.
Speaker 1:Let me run some of these words by you you betcha. Serendipity, that's an easy one. You know what that means, right? Sure, scrumptious, a word that refers to a delicious dish. Sure, now we're getting into some that you would probably know, that we don't know. Oh, agastopia, I don't know, oh, agastopia, I don't know that word.
Speaker 2:Fascination of love You're nuts.
Speaker 3:Agastopia. Now you do, you learned something.
Speaker 1:Genticular. That sounds a little nasty when you're getting out of bed in the morning. If you are offered a genticular cup of tea, don't be offended. It just means anything related to breakfast.
Speaker 3:Genticular, You're welcome that does not sound right, is that?
Speaker 1:your genticular coffee from this morning? No I had coffee earlier this was my uh, you're gonna love this one because you, you're the one that taught us the. The penultimate song sure is track nine on the record if there's 10, 10 songs. Right, yeah, because you and I used to go back and forth. We both wanted to sequence our record.
Speaker 3:Go that way.
Speaker 1:You and I both wanted to be the one to sequence it.
Speaker 2:It matters. Well, it did when people listened to a record front to back what?
Speaker 1:was funny is it mattered to you, so you'd make a sequence. It mattered to me, then we'd turn it into Beeson. It mattered to me, then we'd turn it into Beeson and he would shift it all around and Beeson would go best songs go first. That's how it is.
Speaker 2:Which at the time, that was absolutely the case, because you wanted to make an impression.
Speaker 1:But we'd be like Robert you haven't been around this whole time. You don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, but that also made him purely objective, probably Like he had no skin in the game, and in that situation that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it was his job to get the thing sold. So he's not emotionally attached to any of this.
Speaker 3:That's true.
Speaker 2:We've been slaving over it for three months, True, so that I get that. I get that. But now I don't know if sequences matter at all oh, they don't. I don't know if sequences matter at all oh, they don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean do records like do 10 song records.
Speaker 2:But I do find if I'm doing a 10 song record with somebody, I care about the sequence.
Speaker 3:We still do just Do people still do 10 song records?
Speaker 1:The Gospel, according to Jeremy is sponsored in part by Seek Wellness. Seek creates clean and research-backed products that make living your life and feeling your best simple. Seek supplements and skincare products are made with clean ingredients, free from unnecessary fillers that our bodies don't need, using the highest quality ingredients and essential oils free from chemicals. And let me tell you about the coffee. Most coffee today is full of bad stuff like mold and toxins Not Seek Coffee. Seek Coffee is third-party, lab-tested, mold and mycotoxin-free. Jennifer and I use Seek Supplements and drink Seek Coffee and have experienced the difference. To place your first order, go to SeekToLivecom that's SeekToLivecom and enter the promo code JEREMY at checkout for 20% off your first order. Again, that's seektolivecom. Promo code Jeremy at checkout for 20% off your first order. Seek Wellness Simplified. Sorry guys.
Speaker 3:That's fine, I haven't been talking much anyway.
Speaker 1:This has been really fun so far. Heck, yes, 28 minutes. Oh, okay, so we're. You probably the phone may have not wanted to do the jazz section.
Speaker 3:It's like look.
Speaker 2:She has to be on it because she looks pretty. It's not, things are bad. Things are bad. Not for you so much, but for me no. No, it's 53 is not.
Speaker 1:Things are bad.
Speaker 2:Look, man, I got to lose 40 pounds. I got to lose at least 20, and it's not going to happen. I'm not doing it. How?
Speaker 3:are you going to lose 20 pounds? You don't have 20 pounds, it's all belly.
Speaker 2:I weighed. What did I weigh on my wedding day? 135, maybe, maybe, and I'm over 180 now. So that's my doctor, 180 is my goal weight. Well, but you're, what do they say we?
Speaker 1:have different body types.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:So you're trying to get back to the POW, sort of.
Speaker 2:So that story? People are going to be so offended by that. Should we stop these?
Speaker 1:No, no, we'll just keep talking, because you know Are you going to get that back up and running? I'm trying, yeah but, We'll just keep talking because you know you're going to get that back up and running? I'm trying, yeah, but let's talk about the POW story, because when you and I met, you were a shell of a man. Yeah, so I'm. You were like a Halloween costume, halloween costume.
Speaker 2:I have a dear, a dear friend. We're still friends we. Early in my career I did I never did a ton of touring with artists as a drummer, but I did a little bit and I don't remember who we were out playing for at the time, but this friend of mine and I, we were sharing a hotel room and we were getting into our stage, clothing yeah, and I took my shirt off to put the other one on and he looks at me. He goes POW, so yeah, but he would not say that anymore. It started slowly in my 30s. And then, boy, the pandemic. I have always loved breakfast, but during COVID I remember Cracker Barrel shut down. They were down for a month. I was there the last day and I was the first one in the door the day that they opened right on I've had a fairly stout breakfast almost every day since, well noticing the pounds coming on and I missed this.
Speaker 1:By the way, we need to resume our we were doing every every other tuesday, uh, when you went to the chiropractor then we had breakfast. It has been, and I told vanessa this at one of the lastYT. I said that's like top three highlights of me. Coming back here, getting to be friends with you and reconnect and just be part of your life is a huge blessing, but I have noticed that you do go in hard when we eat those breakfasts.
Speaker 2:That's kind of my meal. Yeah, I mean you do Eggs, bacon and pancakes Well, and bacon extra crispy. My meal yeah, I mean you do the eggs, bacon and pancakes Well and bacon extra crispy. Yes.
Speaker 1:Fruit eggs bacon pancakes, which is a big boy breakfast. I mean, if you keep on with that, you'll get past 180.
Speaker 2:I kind of have.
Speaker 1:Well, I was sitting at the doctor's office when we moved back here. I resumed seeing my neurologist that I was seeing before we left and and he had kind of told me, you know, a decade ago he was like man, you gotta watch your weight, ms. Patients have trouble losing weight. You gain five pounds a year. You're looking at you know, yeah, whatever, five times ten is so uh, that's 50 actually. Um, but man, it's sort of like it happened and so we're. I was sitting in my office, his office, and you know he's got. He gave me the. You know I was up on the butcher paper and he did the exam and then put me back. I was in the chair and he's typing in on his keyboard and he's like, okay, well, you're, look, you look good, and MS seems like me in check, and he just kept going and he finally goes, and he didn't even look at me. He goes and you're obese, and he just kept typing he used the word obese.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I actually said, hey, wait a minute. I said you just can't throw obese into the room and just keep typing. He's like, well, you're not morbidly obese, but you're not morbidly obese, but you're. And I was like Officially. And so he said look, man, for your height you need to weigh like 190 pounds.
Speaker 3:That's a tough word you need to scoot your chair that way.
Speaker 1:Look, I'm trying to tell a weight story. My camera's back.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I am superfluous at this moment.
Speaker 2:No, you're not.
Speaker 3:I am. Did you learn that?
Speaker 2:word from Scott. Yes, I did.
Speaker 3:I remember Scott saying that a lot.
Speaker 2:That's another thing you and I share is the mighty trimmer yeah how's your doing? Oh just great yeah, just great Okay.
Speaker 1:There's another clap for your sink, when we were at breakfast the first time Ever. No, no, no, since we've moved back to Tennessee which, by the way, back to the thing he did say look. He said look, the chart says 185 for you If you get below 200, you're doing all right and I'm on my way.
Speaker 3:If you have to, what did you say you are? 180-ish 185 tops you at his size would be crazy.
Speaker 1:How crazy would it be.
Speaker 3:I just can't imagine it. I mean, I know you used to weigh like a lot less, but when we got married I weighed 165.
Speaker 1:I know Six foot tall, 165. And I thought I was fat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were. I remember those days. I mean that's about as heavy as I should ever be 165?
Speaker 3:160-ish. You just don't seem heavy at all.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks. You're welcome, appreciate it.
Speaker 3:I gained 15 pounds in the pandemic as well. What happened?
Speaker 2:We had nothing to do, and so we ate.
Speaker 3:I ate boxes of meringues from Trader Joe's.
Speaker 2:That was not my problem, I think. In all honesty, I think my entire problem is breakfast foods, I mean.
Speaker 3:I've always you do love a pancake.
Speaker 2:I've always had a sweet tooth, so it's probably just sugar, because I don't drink, I'm not, you know-.
Speaker 3:I need to talk to you because we've actually talked about this place Because of Pilot Eats Food Luke's in Dixon. Oh, son of a mother, Do I have to go?
Speaker 2:That burger is off the chain you have to go.
Speaker 3:That burger is off the chain.
Speaker 2:Okay, like I'm an in and out, I have to go to Dixon you know I'm from LA, I'm an in and out lover, but I got to tell you Luke's is. You rated it really high, oh my goodness, and I was like, okay, well, to the point where Seth, who did that episode with me, drove back over there with a bunch of his friends.
Speaker 1:You and I should fly there with Hutch and she should drive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I don't want to fly with you. We'll meet you over there. We'll meet her over there, yeah, we could all yeah, that'd be fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should do that. I'd love to do an episode of Pilot Eats Food.
Speaker 3:Pilot Eats Food.
Speaker 1:Pilot Eats Food. Okay, what else? Well, no, no, no, what?
Speaker 3:else.
Speaker 1:Move on. Do you got to be somewhere? What the heck? Sorry man, I got huge records to go play on. I mean, look, I've got my list here my obesity check. Yeah, drumming Hindenburg, we got, we got it. Words.
Speaker 3:Have we got that our kids are arranged?
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 3:Our arranged marriages Arranged marriages.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, that's news to me. You might want to let me arrange to this oh, you're talking about.
Speaker 1:No, we shouldn't, shouldn't say it no, let's, let's not, let's, don't say that it's not fine it's not because it's unkind to them.
Speaker 3:They, they can't be expected to are they ever going to hear this?
Speaker 1:not obeying anything I say vanessa would be a really fun mother-in-law, and so would you that that would be.
Speaker 2:Those would be really great, like the two of you. Oh heavens to Betsy, I mean let's, that would be fun for me.
Speaker 1:Let's get into this Vanessa stuff a little bit, Okay, Because it I know that I mean it informs so much of what you do and your life. So how old, how old was V when she was diagnosed with cancer the first time? Yeah, Thirty seven or eight, ok, was it? Was it like we kind of saw this coming, or was it? She went to the doctor one day, came home. I have cancer.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you ask she. We just had this conversation the other night with somebody who interviewed her for a dissertation subject thing. It was somebody who interviewed her for a dissertation subject thing, and so this is fresh. She said I felt like the Lord was sort of revealing to me that something was coming. Everything was fine. I didn't feel like I was living in any kind of like massively rebellious sin, but there was just something that she felt like God was about to start doing some business on her internally, and it was within the month that she found the lump on her breast. Oh, my.
Speaker 2:God, so, um, so she, I think that so was it like oh, this is it? I think pretty quickly that was the conclusion she came to and I hope I'm relaying that correctly. Um, but she, I think because of that, when it was confirmed that it was cancer and she was going to have to go, that I mean it's a very aggressive form of it's an estrogen-fed cancer.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So it was very severe and they said we've caught it early, but we've got to hit it hard because if we don't, it's going to come back. Yeah, so they did. If we don't, it's going to come back. So they did, they did, she did a bilateral mastectomy and then, whatever it was, three or four reconstruction surgeries after the fact. So over two years it was five or six surgeries. How?
Speaker 1:old were the kids.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, garrett would have been 13 or 14. Emma was probably nine or 10, and Seth would have been five or 14. Emma was probably Emma was nine or 10 and Seth would have been five.
Speaker 1:Give or take the two older ones. They got it. They were like mom's sick.
Speaker 3:Yes, Was she sick? Like was she in bed, I mean she did six rounds of chemo.
Speaker 2:And as chemo goes, her experience with it was tolerable. I mean, you hear some people where it's just, it wasn't good, but she did OK, the second round, so. So we thought it was gone Right. And then last year it turns out it's and it would have had to have been there for a long time because by the time they caught it it was at stage four and it's basically from her entire torso, just lights up like a Christmas tree with stuff. How is she handling the treatment? Well, there's not a heck of a lot of it's different now, like chemo isn't even really on the table. It would be a Hail Mary pass. Okay, because it's so advanced. So she's doing. There's several things that she's doing and I won't bore you with it, but the way she described it the other night when we were talking about it is the first time. It's just, it's not. It didn't feel like a life sentence.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it was just kind of. This is happening. I'm going to do what they tell me, we'll get through it. We get through it and we did. And it was 12 years of what we thought was nothing and now, all of a sudden, it. It's not that it's back with a vengeance and with more of a they can't give us a timeframe but it's. You know, the most optimistic doctors have been seven years, but that's probably optimistic, so it could be as little as 18 months. It's that kind of thing. So this feels different than the first time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how does that feel when it comes out of your mouth?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm so used to saying it now that and I see you you're going to use some of it I'm used to saying it so I can be stoic until I start to actually rewind and listen to what I just said, and then it, then you'd start to. But it's it's. We're not living in the total reality of it yet, cause she's basically fine for now. Um, you know, she's doing several different treatments which are kind of keeping it at bay, but they said this won't last forever. It's gonna. So we just see what God's doing. You know, I mean she's going to get healed one way or the other, whether it's on this side or the next. I mean she's going to get healed one way or the other, whether it's on this side or the next, and her attitude is whatever. I'm submitted to, whatever God's doing here. I'm just worried about my family. We're the ones that get left behind, but she's doing exceptionally well.
Speaker 3:She's so positive.
Speaker 2:Yes, she really is Is she always like that yeah. I mean, she has her moments with anything in life, but yes, she's not the pessimist in our relationship.
Speaker 1:Well, Vanessa has always been like when I first, of course I didn't know her still don't know her that well, but we hung out a little over the years and she's always been like intimidatingly confident and positive yes like, wow this and to be married to you. And I mean that, like you needed. You could not marry someone who was going to be a doormat. It would not have gone well no, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:you would have been miserable, they would have been miserable, they would have been miserable. And so you and Vanessa make so much sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all of us desperately need people in our life that we have given permission or not given permission to challenge us, and she'll definitely do that, but you guys have known each other since you were teenagers, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 38 years next month. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:we knew each other for nine years before we got married. So that's crazy. Yeah, well, gosh man. Uh, like I know that you know just from talking to you on our weeks that we have breakfast. This is not something that you need to stay with all the time, but thanks for sharing that stuff, because there's just power and vulnerability. I could tell, as you were saying those things, that you're painfully used to telling those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because people want to know, we got away from it for 12 years and now all of a sudden we're back in the club and it's and like I said, it's different now because it's we're older and the prognosis is not as positive how much do you guys talk about it?
Speaker 2:well, I guess what we're talking about is the we don't have to again, since we're not living in the really adventurous phase of it yet, where it's real and everybody can see it. We're not there yet. Like I tell people, if she came in right now you would go do you have the answer, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we're just not there yet, and so when we're talking about it, it's mostly in the context of okay, are any of these doctors going to want to change the treatment protocol? And or? The worst part of the conversation is, if this doesn't end well, then what so? But that, even that doesn't, you know, come up that often, yet so this it's.
Speaker 1:it's like you guys are being informed by imminence. Even that doesn't come up that often, yet it's like you guys are being informed by imminence. It's actually a pretty disintegrated exercise, because you have this truth, or what you think to be news, reality, but you can't see it Right.
Speaker 2:And we don't know what the timing is.
Speaker 1:It's such an internal gosh. I have trouble imagining what that's like.
Speaker 3:So you don't walk around constantly with it on your mind. No, wow.
Speaker 2:I mean it's back here.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:I know it's there. If I let myself get too deep in that thought process, then it gets. I have to kind of hold it at arm's length for the time being. I mean the most terrifying thing to me about the whole thing is single parenthood of a. I mean I don't know how old he would be at the. He's nine right now. So that that is that's. I just have to kind of, like I say, hold it, hold it at arm's length.
Speaker 1:That's a terrifying thought it is. I say hold it at arm's length. That's a terrifying thought it is.
Speaker 2:I mean for me too. But God does meet us in all of these. It's like anything else. You know, people say I could never do that and you're like well, not right now, but if you were faced with it in real time, god will give you the grace in that moment for whatever it is. And I think that's where we are moment for whatever it is. So right, um, and I think that's where we are.
Speaker 1:We're just kind of and when I said it's a terrifying thought, I meant you as a single parent. Yes, I mean I. That would scare me as well. I don't want it, but you as a single parent is horrifying is horrifying.
Speaker 2:Horrifying to anyone, right? Not just you, Scott to anyone.
Speaker 1:Well, and the other thing you know again. We may as well just throw all this in. You have had a chronic back pain issue. For what are we talking? Two decades now. I knew you before you were in pain and I remember walking with you when you just, they just could not get it figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I gave up trying trying to. No one could ever tell me what was wrong. So, yeah, that's that started what did it end at?
Speaker 3:where do you think you was the problem? You don't even know, because at one point.
Speaker 2:You thought you had lyme, maybe yeah, if I have lyme's disease, I'm really lucky because, if all it is because that can manifest in all kinds of ways for different people, and for me it's if that's what it is it has just been chronic pain, which is you can work through chronic pain. It's harder to work through brain fog or constant dizziness or whatever. It can be really really bad. So if that's what I've got, I'm very fortunate.
Speaker 3:And it's just your back. I'm not saying just your back, I mean it's chronic pain everywhere.
Speaker 2:That is the fulcrum seems to be. There's a word.
Speaker 1:I know what that is.
Speaker 2:The back is where it's the worst all the time. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:I blame you.
Speaker 3:You should, I do too.
Speaker 1:For everyone's pain. Jennifer died for all of our sins. Oh my gosh, You've got to tell that story.
Speaker 3:You've got to tell it because I can't remember all of it.
Speaker 1:You remember Jason, the drummer before Brown Barefoot that was in our band? Well, he and I are cousins, and so his grandma. Actually, I guess our parents are cousins, because his grandma is my great aunt and we wrote songs, we did a song called. On my Cross and his grandma heard it and said oh, jace, that's so sweet how Jeremy wrote that song for Jennifer and Jace just as quick as you just did went. Yeah, my mom, jennifer, died for all of our sins.
Speaker 2:All of ours Gosh Whoops-a-daisy.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what the three of you on a podcast you, jace and Scott would create a vortex that we would get swallowed into.
Speaker 3:If I do my own podcast, I want to do it with Jace.
Speaker 1:You guys would be fun too, you and Scott.
Speaker 3:Except for he's too scary for me.
Speaker 1:He is intimidating.
Speaker 2:I sold my drums. I hate that about myself.
Speaker 1:That's not what I want I know, I'm so sorry I sold my drums when I heard you play.
Speaker 3:I know I'm sorry and that's why I didn't, but it would be.
Speaker 2:It's good for us to know ourselves, and we can't know ourselves if people don't tell us. Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 3:It's not intimidating Like when I say you were mean in the. I'm joking, you weren't. That's why I tried to explain. It was very frustrating.
Speaker 2:The process of recording All of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but when I say intimidating, I don't know how to explain it. And I don't mean it in a mean way at all. It's a respect thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not trying to make us intimidated, but I think coming into it like we were so young and impressionable when we started working with you and you, I mean, even though we're close, aren't you guys the same age?
Speaker 3:He's like a year or two older than me I'm 53.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how old is Vanessa? She'll be 52 this September, okay.
Speaker 3:So she and I are the same age.
Speaker 1:So I think, I think there was just this weird mechanism of you. You were able to kind of bring us into this. I mean, dude, when we were making that, that uh record at the Bennett house, the first or second day we were recording, we we came to you and we said, hey, where are you guys gone to lunch? And you said, what do you mean? And we're like, well, well, I guess we'll meet you back here. And you were like, guys, why don't we're all going to go together? And we said you guys would want us to come to lunch with you, like we didn't know it's your record, you're paying for it, right, but we didn't know.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and that happens to a lot of people, but but there was just a respect factor that probably led to the intimidation yeah Cause I'm the same way with. I was the same way with Beeson and and John.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and you once, we once you and I ended up with sort of a working relationship. Some of that went away. I think what's funny is I started my career so young and was always the youngest person in the room. I I got into this mental habit of always feeling like I was too young to be there, like I probably shouldn't be there, which probably made me, you know, showcase bravado in some way. That wasn't necessary but because that's yeah, I'm 53 and I there's still some of that there where I still feel I'm not. I'm usually the oldest guy in the room now, yeah, but I still have this inferiority complex. So when people say like you're, I don't, this is not common, you know, but you talk about intimidation and you're really big in our I'm like like I, you guys are the ones that we're, we all, you're, you were the rock stars, kind of you know. So it's just funny. It's funny how we all see ourselves in a certain way and very often that is not how we are seen. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Good or bad? I think that Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and I, like Jennifer is sometimes I've heard people say, especially women, some have told me that Jennifer's kind of intimidating. What? Because sometimes she's quiet and quiet intimidates people. Oh sure, you know what I mean. So I don't think it's anything that you tried. I didn't even notice any bravado, anything like that. I just was like I at least understood music enough to get it. When I saw you guys do it and I was like, oh my goodness. But then you know, later on I feel like we had I mean, I was going to list the songs today, but there were like way too many songs that we collaborated on that were just you know, I would write something. I mean like you Found Me Ready to Fly One of these.
Speaker 1:Days I had a good run. Lord, move, or Move Me. When I wrote those songs, this is what I wanted to say. How rare is it that I'd write them, I'd play them for you and you would produce them exactly like I always would have wanted them to sound.
Speaker 3:Oh that's perfect.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean, that is rare.
Speaker 1:John Mays asked me, not on the podcast, but we had coffee a week after we did the podcast and John said is there anything you miss? Because he's like you really seem to like this work and I was like I really do. He said what do you miss about it? And I said you know there is something that I miss that I don't know if I'll ever get this again, but when I wrote a song just me or she was in a room or whatever and then we go in the studio with Scott, that first take of hearing a song that you wrote, just you and the four chords you know, and it'd be like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:It was like it's like.
Speaker 1:Christmas. I wish everybody could feel that feeling. It's better than so many things. Oh my gosh, it was like it's like Christmas. I wish everybody could feel that feeling. Yeah, and it's better than so many things.
Speaker 2:And it's. It wasn't always you. I've been in the studio in situations or or working with an artist in situations where they play me a song that we're going to have to produce somehow and I don't. I don't have much vision for it.
Speaker 2:Either I don't like the song or I'm not sure what it's supposed to be, but I remember that when you first played me one of these days, I remember you played it for me and I knew exactly what it was supposed to sound like. It was one of those rare moments where I just it all clicked Like I could hear the finished thing in my head. It doesn't always work that way. Those are great days because you don't go into the studio feeling terrified, but there have been plenty of times where I've gone in going guys, I know this is good, but I don't know what it is yet. So let's just start playing. And if you have the right musicians and the right songwriter and that happened with us more than once where we would go I, you found me was another one that I knew what it was supposed to be. But there were other songs that we did that I wasn't sure about and somehow it came together it always does.
Speaker 3:But uh, yeah, it's an interesting shoe if you go back and listen to Breathe In Me in the bridge, you will hear Scott Williamson singing my part because she couldn't get the part.
Speaker 1:You made her come in and push record. I'll just come in and do it you went in and did it because there was no way.
Speaker 3:It was some weird note. There was no way I was going to find it.
Speaker 1:I don't remember. I recorded it, I engineered it. Yeah, we should have given you credit.
Speaker 3:Weird note there was no way I was gonna find it. I don't remember. Yeah, I pushed the button, I recorded it. I engineered it you?
Speaker 2:yeah, we should have given you credit, maybe we did.
Speaker 1:Speaking of which, how long, how many, how many minutes? Does that thing say 102? Oh good, let's go for like another 30, and then we'll have the two-parter.
Speaker 3:You bet you will well it's gonna be all jacked up, but well, because of the thing yeah, well I mean, how is that still it's live, we're live.
Speaker 1:It's okay. You know we don't have a bazillion listeners that you know they're. They're okay with us.
Speaker 2:Well, you may get them at some point. That's kind of what we're doing with the pilot eats food thing.
Speaker 3:It's not viral yet start. I can't believe that that Max clip hasn't gone viral.
Speaker 1:The what.
Speaker 2:Maddox.
Speaker 3:Oh, Maddox.
Speaker 2:Which one of him? Him talking about Elvis oh yeah, his weight ballooned and he died.
Speaker 3:Sadly his weight ballooned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like he had just read.
Speaker 3:It did seem like that, but is that just how he?
Speaker 2:talks? Well, no, red. It did seem like that, but is that just how he talks?
Speaker 3:he's well, no, he's he's so smart, but that he, he was performing a little bit there.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was hilarious. Give me those glasses, let's run, let's take a little. I mean, you say it got heavy for a second. What do you say?
Speaker 2:you said give me those guys. I said what do you say, please see he'll be a good single parent, if that were ever to have to happen what?
Speaker 3:he would be a good single parent if that were ever to have to happen. What.
Speaker 2:He would be a good single parent yeah what do you say?
Speaker 3:Oh, you know what. What do you say?
Speaker 1:Before we do this word break. You know I've said on this podcast before that there was a. I had a. You know a bit of a. You know, when I got sick and then we moved to Africa and came back, I had a little bit of a. You know, I went through some of the 12 steps, had a bit of an apology tour and but I remember when I called you because I was producing another band and I remember we were because I had just when I started producing I just copied everything you did I was just like there's, why even try something new, I'm just going to copy scott. So I recorded this band at dark horse uh, same engineer, I think I. I either asked julian or, um, todd robbins, probably one of those two. I did use todd todd once and I asked um, uh, maybe it was paul, but anyways, I remember paul used to put stickers on our back, paul salvo.
Speaker 2:Yes, he's, I mean it was like we're working with adults and he's putting stickers on our back that say door loser, Welcome Dano.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Anyways, I remember calling you. I was on 96 and I called you and I said I want to apologize for every stupid thing I've done. I'm now producing a record and I'm so sorry, yeah, and I still am. I mean, I was kind of a dick and so I'm sorry we don't use those words, Jeremy.
Speaker 3:It's Richard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, richard, worst race car driver. Name of all time Dick Trickle, dick Trickle. Yeah, worst name of all time.
Speaker 1:I'm actually impressed that you know something sport.
Speaker 2:I know a lot about sports, having absolutely no interest in sports.
Speaker 1:I know names, I know sports names, but I think I've seen you try to throw a ball or something. Oh, it's bad. Yeah, it's bad news. Bears, yeah, it goes with your body type. Yo, yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean you throw like a, like a guy with a tremor you stick to jazz I'm gonna let that, let that go. That's all right.
Speaker 3:That's all right, that's all right, that's all right for me.
Speaker 1:Okay, titty nope. Anybody know what that is. How's what Titty nope?
Speaker 2:That's what my wife says every night at about 930.
Speaker 3:You guys go.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 1:Let's get some more. The scattering of crumbs left on one side of the plate, that's the titty note. Boy, that's stupid, or a few drops remaining in a glass. Okay, there are not leftovers, they're titty notes. Nudisterion You'll like this one. Nudisterion is the word you use to refer to two days ago. Two days ago, two days ago, our new Disterian meeting.
Speaker 2:Yes, wow.
Speaker 3:Yes, so, not yet so wait, it's exactly right.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like the Fortnite kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Our new Disterian Wow.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Winkle picker? Do you know what that is? We don't talk about it. Winkle picker is shoes with a sharp point. Those are your Winkle Pickers.
Speaker 3:Okay, wait. Yeah. What would that be? A pair of.
Speaker 1:Winkle. Pickers Shoes with such a sharp point that they evoke the use of utensils used to pry oysters from a shell.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Why do we need that word Is it like a is it?
Speaker 3:that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:These are words like.
Speaker 1:Like, Is it like a? Is it? That's what I'm saying? These are words like Like titty. Nope, we don't need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, genticular, I think we need. Yeah, we need a genticular.
Speaker 3:I agree, I get that. I mean that. To me it's like genteel. Yeah, genticular, okay, I like this one.
Speaker 1:Yule Tied, carol Yule Yul Brynner People with curly hair are Yul.
Speaker 2:Trishius Yul Brynner.
Speaker 1:She says this is wow.
Speaker 3:Yul Trishius. What was it?
Speaker 1:Yul Trishius are people with curly hair. I am, I am, You're a bit Yul Trishius. I'm very. You've lost some of your Yul Trishius-ness.
Speaker 3:No my hair is very Yul Trishius.
Speaker 1:I am very now fool Cacarophobia, Cacaropheophobia. I'm serious Cacaropheophobia, not a clue.
Speaker 2:The fear of failure Cacaropheophobia, anachronism.
Speaker 1:Anachronism I know this word, do you really? Yeah, but go ahead Showing something that is out of place in terms of chronology. For example, showing the Pharaoh wearing a wristwatch would be an anachronism.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's just wrong.
Speaker 1:Cacophony.
Speaker 3:That one I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a big, loud noise. Harsh mixture of sound.
Speaker 3:Draconian oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Just heavy handed, exactly Yep Excessively harshively harsh limerence wait, that is limerence wait time out.
Speaker 2:What is that you're thinking of? Limerick, aren't you?
Speaker 3:no limerence. What is that?
Speaker 1:involuntary state of falling in love yes, it's like combined with an overwhelming, obsessive need to have one's feelings reciprocated. Yes, oh interesting. What was?
Speaker 3:that word that was in Bambi Twitterpated. It's kind of like whatever. It is like Twitterpated. Twitterpated.
Speaker 2:I like how you two looked at each other. Yeah, little limerence, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:You know you did way better on the Hindenburg.
Speaker 2:Listen I. You worked a lot on Listen I love watching old Bill Buckley firing line stuff where he would just use huge words just for the sake of letting everybody else know you're idiots. Yeah, I mean, I'm not into that. I love watching that stuff, but I like words, but I have no idea what most of those words were. Most of the words I know are words that are used in common conversation.
Speaker 3:Yes, vernacular, how about that? It's nice, very nice word. Do you know what tintinabulation means?
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 3:It means a jingling, tingling sound. It's the one vocabulary word I remember from high school.
Speaker 1:Tintinabulation. Except you can't say vocabulary.
Speaker 3:I can say tintinabulation, but she can't say volume or value.
Speaker 2:What was the word you were saying in that other episode? I can't say Exclamation point I can't say that.
Speaker 1:It comes out explanation point.
Speaker 3:I think this is a brain problem we're having Well we're not getting any younger, but that's a weird word no, it's really not, it's hard to say Exclamation point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 3:I understand that's tricky, that's kind of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 3:That's kind of you.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's because it's easy to get hung up on. I mean, really smart people sometimes get hung up on words. You can get stuck.
Speaker 3:As you know, I know that well. Really smart person.
Speaker 1:We both lost our dads. Mine was a little more recent than yours. There's a segue, geez I'll tell you what I like about the Chinese.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, oh boy.
Speaker 1:Canceled. Oh my god, oh boy canceled. Uh, when did so? We were living in california when your dad died. Uh, what year was that?
Speaker 2:it was it was seven years ago this month march 2017? Is that right, yeah right.
Speaker 1:Seven, seven years that's crazy, march what yeah 12.
Speaker 2:Okay, almost sure it was march 12th yeah um, yeah, uh, that's.
Speaker 1:It's weird being alive and being the oldest of your, you know, I mean I I wasn't ready to not have a dad Feels weird, right? Yes, and he was gosh, and I know you've told me, you've heard this, everybody has the same. Your dad was so sweet.
Speaker 2:He was my mom and I are the cleric. What did you say? Enneagram one types in our family. My mom would be horrified if I'm anti Enneagram. She is a Nazi anti Enneagram.
Speaker 1:That you use her name in Enneagram Well she's just got here, so we're going to bring her. Oh great Scott, you're, jan, come on in. This is your life.
Speaker 2:She and I are a lot alike and my dad is just kind of the teddy bear. He didn't, he did not. I got my love of well, they're both wordsmiths, but he loved big words but he did not he didn't say that. Yes, he did not say that much. So when he was talking, usually it was oh, everybody better listen because this is going to be good. Yeah, and he was, he was just, he was just very, very sweet 80% of the time, like it was just kind of his nature.
Speaker 1:Um, so yeah, you were out on the uh again a lot like Hutch. You were out on the road as a family and were you on stage yes.
Speaker 2:We sang as a family. It's one of the reasons we moved from um Los Angeles area to Nashville when I was right out of high school. Are you older than amy joy? Yeah, okay, so you're I'm the oldest. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Two younger sisters oh man, so you're out there with your parents and they're, they have to be perfect what do you mean by that to the crowd?
Speaker 2:oh heavens to betsy, that was it was christian very, um, it's funny, uh, boy, that's that brings up some. You talk about, um, performance mentality, christianity. Um, you know, that's a that's tricky because, paul, we are taught to avoid all appearances of evil, that that is a legit principle. But we're also human and if it's true what we say, that this is not works-based faith, then why are we working so hard? So, yes, there was always sort of this underlying. You know what are people going to think, and that's dangerous if you soak in that for too long well, the crowd.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is something we actually can share. Is that, whoever's coming, they didn't?
Speaker 2:to see the concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they didn't agree to see all your junk. That's right. Their ticket, that contract, is give us your best stuff. We want the thing that we think it is. Right. And it's actually. It's legit, like you know, and so I mean she and I would have the fights before we got married. Oh, we, that was.
Speaker 3:I think it wasn't very often, but we did Not huge ones.
Speaker 2:That was a regular in my family.
Speaker 2:Huge, huge knockdown drag outs Between you and the sisters Hi everybody the Williamson's, you know Usually between me and my mom, because we were the kind of fire and ice, but the thing that was beautiful about it, though, is that we were the singing family, and what everybody expects is, you know, singing family. Well, my mom and dad's, you know, they had a point in their marriage where it almost fell apart, and it's one of the reasons we were doing family ministry is they felt like, look, this is hard, we're not the only ones, so we would get on stage and they would get you. Talk about vulnerability. I mean, there was some heavy stuff that got discussed from the stage, so it was we're going to work this out real quick.
Speaker 2:So it was we're going to work this out right on right here. Yeah, it was. It was fascinating. So yeah, we were. It was not all happy, you know.
Speaker 1:Fun, fun happy, fun, fun. Yeah Well, the reason I wanted to bring your dad up is that you know I have a limited experience with Dave, but the times I have been with him he was so you know he liked me and he probably made.
Speaker 1:He probably made all the people in his life feel that way, but he would go out of his way to let me know that he liked me and that actually, you know, um, I don't want to get too much into this, but that that did fill a. It filled something that I needed. I led worship one time at fellowship Bible church and we had an electric service. I mean, your dad was leading the choir, the band was amazing and he came to me in the stairwell, he followed me out and he grabbed me by the shoulders and he put his hands on my shoulders and he he looked at me and he his hands on my shoulders, like my dad and he.
Speaker 1:He looked at me and he he just pointed. He said you and I was like oh and I. But I kind of knew, yeah, and he was like, he was like you stay you, you stay with this, you have and I was like I mean that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, he it was like a, he was like I. I see that tank and here I'm going to fill it right now, yeah, and then of course he you know, on our records he did so many string tracks for us the you Found Me string track, the Ready to Fly string track, I think he did not do.
Speaker 2:You Found Me.
Speaker 1:Did he not? Okay, yeah, I know he did Ready to Fly.
Speaker 2:He did Ready to Fly Lord Move. He did some others.
Speaker 1:I have a couple of music business clients that you know. But sometimes they'll say now tell me you're. You know they're old enough to remember those songs being hits. And one of them asked me the day what's your proudest, what's your proudest moment? And I said I, I think, if you like, the thing that that feels most like me is ready to fly and the string track and the end, I mean it's got the Elton John vibe, we copied super tramp. At the end I mean it's got the Elton John vibe, we copied Supertramp at the end, it's just perfect.
Speaker 1:And I tell him I'm like man anyways.
Speaker 2:That was a good moment. That whole record's a good moment.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:It is I remember where that might be our crowning achievement together.
Speaker 3:You think it was. He said the other day we should have gone country to fly.
Speaker 1:We wanted to do country we loved it and Mike Adkins we should have tried it. Adkins talked to us about it and cause he had moved to a management company that was managing country artists as well and he said I'll do it if you want to. He said there's a market for it. But he said if you do it you will never go back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he this audience will not take you back. And because he had just done Jackie Velasquez, he had taken you know the Latin, whatever and he said I just want you to know that if you do it you won't be able to go back. And that's really sad. You know what I mean. I'm not sure it's like that now.
Speaker 2:Audiences are fickle, you know, it's just look. We all have our preferences and that is an interesting phenomenon. Yeah. And I'm not enough of a psychologist to figure out why it is.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine how fun it would have been to make a country record together?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Well we still do it. We're still alive.
Speaker 3:We could still do it, but Well, we want to, though. We want to do it, but then what are we going to do with it? I?
Speaker 1:mean, do we have the energy? Oh, push that rock up a hill isn't it weird like, maybe maybe this is where you and I differ, but you remember me in my 20s. I mean I loved this so much. I mean I just and I still love music. I mean there are things about it that I miss.
Speaker 1:It's such a weird feeling to want my kids to succeed more than me oh interesting like I yeah you know, I, if I would go back and tell, like, if I go tell my 25 year old self like hey, as much as you love this, you're not like you're gonna want your kids to do that, and I'd be like I don't know, I don't know if I could see that, and now I, I just love it, like I'm like they must increase, I must oh yeah, well, I've got four kids and I.
Speaker 2:Two of them are starting to fly on there. Really, three of them, I mean even Seth at 18, is starting to it's. He's showing his cards, so he's ridiculously, they're all crazy talented as are yours. So we, we were. We've bred this next generation of uh, who knows? Yeah, but isn't that a weird? You know, I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:If you could go back and like so was 25 year old Scott living here. Uh-huh, oh duh, we knew each other. I was 18.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, uh, if you go back and talk to 25-year-old Scott, like what would you tell him that? Like what are you surprised by now? That you would tell him, like you're not going to believe this, but when you're 50.
Speaker 2:Hmm, boy, no one's ever asked me that, boy, no one's ever asked me that. I don't know how. I mean it's that some things can't be fixed, and that applies to so many things in your life. So it applies sometimes to being in the studio in a closed space with people for weeks at a time. It applies to your marriage, it applies to child raising. It applies to literally everything. There's just there's always going to be tension in life somewhere, because we live in a in an imperfect world and we're not perfect people and I, I I have been surprised.
Speaker 2:I think the positive in this is I'm so wired to just get. I can you know? I see the problem. Let's get this fixed. Yes, sometimes it's better things end up better if you don't insist on getting the problem fixed, because sometimes the problem leads you to a place that you would not have gotten this chronic pain, for instance. I hate it. I mean, I have begged God for divine healing, but there are things that I've gotten from chronic pain that I would not have gotten any other way, or if I had gotten it, it probably would have had to been some other what we would call a negative stimulus, yeah, so, um, sometimes getting stuff fixed is not the best, not the best plan. Yeah, uh, and that's surprising. It is, isn't it? That's you said what? What have you been surprised by? That is a that's, that's a surprise.
Speaker 1:And not one that I'm-. Would you tell young Scott that? Would you go? Look man, it's. You don't have to fix it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess. I mean. I guess the thing is is that if history teaches us nothing else, it's that we only learn through process, and mostly through failure and time. So I don't know that me going back and telling 25-year-old Scott I don't know it would make any difference, because Scott had to learn this by being really arrogant and stubborn and finding out that it doesn't work. Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1:Do you have something you would tell young you? We've never talked about this.
Speaker 3:Oh, probably that it's going to be okay. Yeah, I mean, I'm such a worrier.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I love to worry.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't you know what I mean, but I, yeah, I think it's going to be okay. You, you're gonna be okay yeah you're gonna make it to 50 yeah without you know I I totally relate to that I did too.
Speaker 1:I I would. I'd probably tell younger me have kids sooner yeah, and then I would I regret not having more kids and I would also say it's gonna be all right like there. You just don't, it's just relax. It's the same thing I would tell Hutch right now just relax, you know maybe that's.
Speaker 2:it doesn't work, though they have to come to it on their own.
Speaker 1:I mean, if you could like, if you, if I could have found that, like whatever the easy yoke pacing of Jesus is, which I'm not saying I'm in it right now, but if I could have found it at a younger age, I think I'd have been. You know, my father-in-law used to always say it's going to be good, jerem, it's going to be good, and I wish I would have believed him because it is so good. You know, I mean sure, we have pain, which when you were telling that story just now, I thought you and I should start a band because we could call it chronic pain.
Speaker 3:In the ass.
Speaker 1:Well, we could all have a different like one of us could be in the ass, one of us could be in the neck oh gosh.
Speaker 2:Scott Williams the views of the host do not necessarily represent the. Sorry, well, we know that, why do?
Speaker 3:I always have to do that? Why do I have to ruin it by something?
Speaker 2:dodgy. Oh no, you're not. You're not. This is your podcast. I'm a guest in your house so my views are definitely not there's how close are we?
Speaker 1:because I got like two more things that I want to 125.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, are you still carrying?
Speaker 1:that you're still carrying the purse. I mean, you've been carrying a purse since we began.
Speaker 2:So when you have chronic back pain, it doubles as a lumbar support okay my gosh, you have carried, you've carried that purse or a version of that forever but it it became really useful when the back thing started, because there's, I mean, does it help, obviously yes, but yes it's. I mean, does it help?
Speaker 3:Obviously yes, but yes it's a lumbar thing, it's it totally is, and it's my calendar.
Speaker 2:I don't have a calendar on my. I mean the calendar's on my phone. I don't use it so every restaurant we go into.
Speaker 1:Ever you put that behind your back everywhere, everywhere, because no one.
Speaker 2:It does not evidently occur to any business owner that he might have people coming into his establishment with chronic back pain. That does not occur to people because most chairs are terrible, yeah, so what would we?
Speaker 3:Is this from drumming, you think?
Speaker 2:Who knows?
Speaker 3:Okay, sorry, I know you that's all right.
Speaker 2:There was a drug prescribed to pregnant women in the 40s, 50s and 60s an estrogen blocker that was if they thought they were in danger of miscarrying. This is well known in the medical community. My mother was born. She hurt. My grandmother took the drug while she was pregnant with my mom. My mom was born with a bunch of weird stuff. They have traced some known second generation defects, particularly to sons of the. My god, I was born with one of them that required corrective surgery. I'll let you guess what it might have been, but um, does it have to do with titty?
Speaker 4:nope is it? I got nothing I got. We talked about the three nipple. Yeah, yeah, you have that, that's right what scott was born with a.
Speaker 3:Does he want someone to tell this? What are you? Talking, I was like wait a minute. What are you going to do?
Speaker 2:He's going to throw me under the bus.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you're talking about. No, anyway, yeah so we think that there's.
Speaker 2:I just got the short end of the DNA wiring stick. Wow, and that may be all of it, because you know the tremor. I've had the tremor since I was a little boy.
Speaker 1:So you were saying I'm sorry, no, no, no, so well, that's interesting that you can't find a chair you like. Rarely, can you bum any of Vanessa's pain medicine?
Speaker 2:I mean, you told me you've got a cabinet full of we do, and I don't like anything that makes me come over for dinner what are you guys having tonight? She's not taking much. She's most of it's stuff from you know 13 years ago. What's funny is it's they've got an expiration. It does keep, it keeps, but I don't, like I just don't. I have to be desperate to take that stuff and and what I find is that usually it doesn't do much. So that's one of the reasons I don't take it.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sorry, man, I hate that. It's it's. It is what it is. It is what it is, but it's also something else, and chronic pain can make people just feel hopeless, like I'm never gonna.
Speaker 2:There are moments where that happens. If I'm in one of those, because occasionally it's pretty cataclysmic Like I'll just have to sit in a chair all day. Those are tough days, but more often than not it's just keep putting one foot in front of the other, yeah, and then you have that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you've had that conversation with God of like, what are we doing here, why?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, absolutely. But again, there are things you get from this, even in walking with the Lord, that you're not going to get by being rich and happy and having everything that you want. That's it's. It does not we're, we're not created for that. I, we may have been at one point, but once it's adversity is, this is the good stuff. Yeah, it's, it's horrible, but it's the good stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm convinced our spirits are at are at odds with a lot of things that that our minds have created. You know technology. I've got a couple of clients that this life, whatever the pacing of it, just doesn't work and they, you know they're dealing with it every day Like how do I deal?
Speaker 1:deal with the stimulus that I'm, you know. Um, a couple things before we go. I did this with john mays. You are, uh, imagine you could time travel and you someone you know you win whatever the musical lottery. And someone says you get to go on a five, seven day run with the band of your choice. Who you going with? He?
Speaker 2:picked toto, so you can't say that, no, I wouldn't pick toto. It's too tiring really yeah, I play in a toto cover band and and don't we all that's that's. It's too tiring, my knee jerk that I want to say is John Mayer Really? Yeah, yeah, because I could still. I think I can still keep up with it. You know, I'm 53. It's just, drums becomes more tricky the older you get. So I mean one of my. I'm among the Jacob Collier fanatics, I'm just Seth too.
Speaker 1:Yes, my kids are. Don't they know each other. No, no.
Speaker 2:Seth got to have a question a live question, answered last week.
Speaker 1:But according to Seth's Instagram, they may as well know each other. Yeah, they're best friends.
Speaker 2:No, it last week, but according to seth's instagram.
Speaker 3:They may as well know yeah, they're best friends. No, it just no. I, I would love, I would love to think that I could do that, but that's that maybe when I was 25 what if that was taken away?
Speaker 1:you could do it, yeah, time travel, time travel, yeah, so you could and I had all of the requisite skills yeah, jacob would be a top of the list I feel like what he's doing is inspired by God, bro, what he does with audiences.
Speaker 2:He may not know, but that's that's worship that I the new bridge over troubled water with Tori. Kelly bro, I, I wept like a little child. Yeah, that is what heaven has to be, something like that, cause I don't understand what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1:Well, how does he stand in front of an audience of 4,000 people? He teaches them half steps and whole steps and it sounds like angels. I mean it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2:That's God writing his signature all over a person, absolutely. You better believe it.
Speaker 1:Now that I would like to tell 23-year-old Jeremy what how to do that. Well, yeah, I would like to tell 23 year old Jeremy what how to do that Well, yeah, but also this thing that you think is God is way bigger. You know, boy, this, whatever, just get ready to have your mind blown.
Speaker 2:He's so much better than we thought. He's also so much holier than we want to reckon with. So I'm trying to find that balance between and I'm sorry this is tangential, I know you had another question, but just trying to figure out. He loves me, he loves me. The grace, the mercy thing is so so much bigger than I can get, but so is the holiness, and there's a tension there. People love to I think it was William Lane Craig who pointed this out a lot of people. How could a loving God send anybody to hell? That's a reasonable question to ask. How could a holy God let anybody into heaven? So there is a tension here that we have to reckon with. And I think, as I'm getting older, this is the thing that I'm holiness is a thing I'm terrible at it and I need to figure that out.
Speaker 2:Sorry for the that's a that's just a big thing that I've been trying to work through right now so yeah.
Speaker 1:Working on. Well, let me know when you get that figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boy, good luck with that one Gosh. Okay, Sorry.
Speaker 1:You were. The second one was drum track. You would have loved to have played Like if it would be. There's a drum track that was like not that guy, oh no, that's Scott Williamson, and it can't be Rock With you. That's a good one.
Speaker 2:Boy.
Speaker 3:Why can't it be?
Speaker 2:Didn't somebody use that already? I don't, I mean that's. John Robinson that track. That track is one of the most perfect it is amazing productions.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable it really is. The multi-tracks, for that went around several years ago. I've got them and just to be able to go through and isolate stuff, I mean it is that and and staying alive off of the saturday night fever record, those two, especially for the time just unbelievable. How well constructed, I would say. There's a couple of songs on the Chaka Khan what you Gonna Do For Me record. That, in fact the title cut. I would love to have played that. That's Steve Ferroni.
Speaker 2:And it's just, I mean I would love to have played there's a song called Roof Garden on it. I mean I would love to have played there's a song called Roof Garden on a. But see, the reason I wish it was me is because I I'm almost guilty of idolatry with these drummers. That was Steve Gadd who is it's. It doesn't get better. So why should it be me Like that's a great question to think I would love to have played the track, but then I wouldn't have been able to learn from Steve Gadd on it. So I don't know, that's a tough question.
Speaker 1:These are all such Jennifer. She's such a Chaka Khan fan.
Speaker 3:I'm a Chaka Khan and Steve Gadd. I can't get enough.
Speaker 2:Can not. Are you joking about Steve Gadd?
Speaker 3:I don't even know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:He's a drummer Asia 50 Ways to leave your lover. Oh, okay. Well, if you just said that, I didn't know what you're talking about. Steve sayers, you make me feel like dancing. One of the greatest songs of all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, no, that's I, just I. When you were saying those things, I just was like I'm just nodding along.
Speaker 1:This is translating to jennifer and all the jennifers that listen yes, you know what I mean all the zebras, beck, becky's. We've got Becky's and Mark's and Tyler's.
Speaker 2:Are we Becky and Mark? Is that our age?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you guys are. Really so what are you? I mean I think Tyler's are in their 40s.
Speaker 3:You are not a Tyler Dream. The mess on.
Speaker 2:I think honestly Becky and Mark, I think my name actually works Scott, Marky and Mark I think my name actually works. Scott is kind of my generation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe it's just sort of that. I'm the Jennifer Jason generation.
Speaker 1:I'm the Jeremy generation. It's different.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it goes by year. Honestly, everyone my age and like a year younger was named Jennifer.
Speaker 1:Well, not only that, you are the white Jennifer, I am the straight up the middle.
Speaker 3:It's so depressing.
Speaker 1:We're trying to find names for her podcast and I thought such a Jennifer might actually be a good name. Yeah, I see, yeah, maybe you I feel like a zebra.
Speaker 3:Like you can't tell the difference in any of us. We're all the same. Like I think I'm unique and I'm learning, and then and then, and I'm like oh, no, every other one of me shopping at the same stores. We're all listening to the same crap.
Speaker 1:We all have chickens. We're all drinking whole milk.
Speaker 3:We all like to study herbs.
Speaker 2:Study herbs Lululemon maybe.
Speaker 3:No, I don't like.
Speaker 2:Lululemon, I'm a little out of my depth here. I don't know.
Speaker 1:You don't know what all the Jennifer's are doing. We keep railroading.
Speaker 3:This is the least railroed this show has ever been Okay.
Speaker 1:This is the most engaged anyone has been with me.
Speaker 3:This is the most he's ever gotten to talk.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, oh for sure, there is mutual respect in this place.
Speaker 3:I literally am superfluous in this.
Speaker 1:No, you're very ancillary. I am ancillary in this, in this episode. I disagree. Listen, I don't care. I couldn't care less. You know when she's, you know when she starts thinking about this podcast the minute she sits in that chair yeah, I mean, I knew you were coming today this is exactly how you were when we were making records.
Speaker 2:You were like just get me out of here so I can go shop.
Speaker 3:Well, that was well, I didn't necessarily want to shop, I just wanted to run well, maybe that's when we were in burbank, I mean and we didn't as much shop as we just allison and I just ran all over la, yeah it's just I gotta get out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do not want to be in the studio yeah, see things. Yeah, I get it. I totally get that. It's not for everybody.
Speaker 3:I hate being in the studio. I hate it.
Speaker 2:Well, you could have fooled everybody that ever listened to one of your solos.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I thought you were going to say everybody that worked on it.
Speaker 2:No, no, I knew you didn't love it, but you still always gave 110%. Your vocal performances were always great, I thought so. Thank you, scott, yeah.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite Scott memories is when we were walking out on stage to do lead worship at fellowship and you're out, and we're walking out, we're walking out and you lean over to me and you go hey, don't mess this up for the rest of us. I said that, yes, hey, don't mess this up. For the rest of us, I died. It was classic.
Speaker 1:That was such a fun season because I we hadn't played music for a while cause I had had my chemo, and and then Rob asked me to start playing some music at fellowship and we were all still there and so I mean I just remember being so intimidated again but, respectfully, like I was, like I'm gonna show up ready, and so I mean we are my bands when we play. There were you and Blair.
Speaker 2:John Mays playing bass. Seth Markham played bass.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, that was a good team. Yeah, I want to say man who was playing organ at the time. He played for Stephen Curtis and he dang it. Who is that? I can't remember. Anyways, those were great great bands. And then you guys, are you still going to church? I don't remember, anyways, those were great, great bands. And then you guys, you still going to church. I don't mean that facetiously, no, yes, absolutely. Well, so many of our friends have stopped. They're going, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm out. I think COVID kind of screwed up a lot of people with church and so they just kind of got out of the habit of going on Sunday morning. Yes, yes, and they watch online still, or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, all of us in this generation have seen the good and the bad at church, and if I didn't have kids I could envision a scenario where I might have given up on it. But the problem with church is not God, the problem's me. So I've kept up with it.
Speaker 4:We're at a lovely place right now. I don't know if you're ready to go to church.
Speaker 2:We're at Station Hill, which is a Brentwood Baptist satellite.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, when does Emma lead worship?
Speaker 2:Well, she's been leading down at First Baptist Atlanta, which is where Charles Stanley built that church.
Speaker 3:Because she's always dressed up, yes, so it must be a very traditional.
Speaker 2:It is very yeah, they've got a yes, a big orchestra, the whole thing. She's not going to be doing it as much. I don't think she's done it for a couple of years and it's just that's a long drive every weekend, yeah, but that's a lovely place. Anthony George took over and he's fabulous.
Speaker 1:Are you still peeing a lot, Peeing a lot? Yeah, remember we couldn't go to movies together because you oh, movies get me excited and I get my bladder. Yes, that's not a, that's not normal you carry your excitement in your bladder a lot yeah, that's so interesting, that does happen. Yeah, that's a oh, I'm excited gotta pee you happy pee yeah happy or or stress pee like movies.
Speaker 2:I get like I don't see a lot of movies because I get so emotionally involved in them in a way that probably isn't helpful to me.
Speaker 1:I thought you see Oppenheimer.
Speaker 2:No, for that reason. You know, there's some movies that I should have seen, that I never did because I was like I can't.
Speaker 3:What is if you had to pick a favorite movie?
Speaker 2:Movie Hercules with Lou Ferrigno. No, I a favorite movie. Oh gosh, that's, I don't know. I mean sentimentally, et hands down. Okay, greatest movie score of all time, certainly top five. I love Patton, but I don't know. That's a hard question. I'd have to think about it.
Speaker 1:You know, that's one of the very rare things that we our age difference, three years maybe. How old are you? I'm 49. So four-ish. I was terrified, by ET.
Speaker 2:Well sure you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It was like a horror movie.
Speaker 2:I was 10. Did it come out in 81 or 82? I can't remember.
Speaker 1:When he came busted out of the cornfield I was like, I mean I?
Speaker 2:never want to see ET again. I think I was old enough to not be frightened by it.
Speaker 3:at that point I was in love with Elliot.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3:I had a crush on him, elliot.
Speaker 2:Elliot yes.
Speaker 1:Henry Thomas, I was also scared of Star Wars.
Speaker 3:That's why I never got into to it.
Speaker 2:Well, it's terrifying if I mean now that I was six when that came out, okay, were you a big fan. I remember being into it as a kid. I have still got a lot of the like maddox likes to play with this stuff now, a lot of the action figures and stuff I still have, like a land speeder from 45 years ago. It's funny to watch those now yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty pedestrian, the script I was thinking pedestrian.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but was that the word? Yeah, it's pretty. It reminds me so much of people crossing the street just people yeah it's not a pedestrian crossing, it's just a pedestrian well, what do you think of when you think of the word pedestrian?
Speaker 2:I see the yellow sign yeah, me too I'm just gonna look it up the proper definition, but my phone is there filming what else?
Speaker 1:uh well, no, that was just it, because I remember the we we have seen a movie together once or twice and you sit on the end because I always have to pee.
Speaker 2:I do too, especially if it's like a born identity kind of film, those films just stress me out, good, but they're so good we have gotten on a thing of watching all this revenge stuff.
Speaker 3:I love it yeah, these revenge movies like equalizer and yeah I love those. Yeah, that stuff john wick well, we, we watched the first but you love those yeah I don't love those are equalizer and stuff are better. Yeah, but we watched the other night we watched the beekeeper, which is new. Just watch it because it's hilarious on purpose or by accident by accident oh no, it's that bad, it's so bad. I mean it was, it's actually sucked touch in.
Speaker 1:If it was stars, you would have to give it this little tip not even but it got 71 ones, and I mean I can't even understand.
Speaker 3:Somebody bribed, somebody paid somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah For the Rotten Tomatoes thing.
Speaker 3:Because it is hilarious, it's worth it.
Speaker 2:For me, my favorite movies are always human interest stories I loved. You know sorry, I know this is crazy I love Driving Miss Daisy and Fried Green Tomatoes stuff like that, I just love the films that kind of make me. I don't know what it is, I'm really really into that stuff.
Speaker 1:You're an old lady, I may be I may be, yeah, you might be, if reincarnation, if we've realized that it's somehow real. Maybe you just have a little leftover, old lady. A little leftover.
Speaker 2:Like I am Jessica Tandy. I am.
Speaker 1:Jessica Tandy, there's a T-shirt that's the name of your movie.
Speaker 3:There's a T-shirt that's the name of your band Scott.
Speaker 1:we have some stars in. I am Jessica Tandy.
Speaker 3:That's your band, Jessica Tandy.
Speaker 1:No, Chronic pain Is our band.
Speaker 3:In the ass, chronic pain, and I'll just be there Going in the ass.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't think you can say that phrase Without the chronic pain part. Yeah, we can't.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'd be in the audience when they introduce you.
Speaker 1:Right, but when you Separate that phrase.
Speaker 3:Guys, I'm gonna close this in prayer and you just start yelling in the air.
Speaker 1:Lord, we Lord.
Speaker 3:Please welcome chronic pain. We come before you, Lord and I yell in the. You know what. Chronic pain in the. You know what. God, you were saying no, I think we shut it down, scott, old lady, I think we should shut it down.
Speaker 1:This has been a highlight. Thanks for coming on. Oh, my God, my pleasure Next time we do. Pilot Eats Food in Dixon.