The Gospel According to Jeromy
Welcome to "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast, where faith, humor, and heartfelt stories collide in a lively conversation about life, love, and everything in between. Join your host Jeromy Deibler, along with co-hosts Jennifer Deibler and Drew Powell, as they share the Dieblers journey from being the acclaimed Christian band FFH to their current path in spiritual direction.
In this engaging and candid podcast, Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew offer a unique blend of perspectives on spirituality, mental health, emotional well-being, and personal growth. Drawing from their extensive experiences on the road and life's ups and downs, they explore the joys and challenges of faith, all while sprinkling in some humor along the way.
Get ready for spirited debates, deep dives into controversial thoughts, and heartwarming memories as they invite you into their world of faith, questions, and spiritual exploration. Whether you're a longtime believer, a spiritual seeker, or simply someone looking for meaningful conversations, "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast has something for everyone.
Tune in to join the conversation, laugh, learn, and be inspired as Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew navigate the twists and turns of life's spiritual journey. It's a podcast that's as diverse as their experiences and as authentic as their hearts. Subscribe today and embark on a captivating exploration of faith, laughter, and the adventure of the human spirit.
The Gospel According to Jeromy
Cancer and the Movies with Joel Robertson
Ever wondered how visual effects artists balance beauty enhancements to avoid the "overdone" look? Join us as we chat with Joel Robertson, a talented VFX artist renowned for his work in music videos and commercials. Joel shares his professional insights on facial symmetry, the art of achieving natural results, and what makes celebrities like Tom Cruise stand out. Alongside these fascinating details, Jennifer and I discuss our own photo quirks and the universal challenge of aging gracefully.
We also dive into some hilarious family stories, including the struggles toddlers face when trying to communicate with voice assistants like Alexa. Joel recounts wild tales from his musical career, such as technical mishaps and the chaotic experience of performing at a Harley Davidson store. We explore the quirky trend of making jewelry from unconventional materials and the benefits of preserving placenta for health, providing a mix of humor and intrigue.
The episode takes an emotional turn as Joel opens up about his unexpected cancer diagnosis and the challenges of chemotherapy. We discuss themes of resilience, faith, and personal growth, interwoven with lighthearted anecdotes from school days and the quest for acceptance. From the therapeutic power of music to the importance of mental health, this conversation offers a compelling blend of humor, heart, and valuable life lessons that will surely resonate with our listeners.
okay, rolling, rolling, rolling. Oh, I got the hiccups.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I never get the hiccups. Everybody welcome to the gospel according to jeremy I'm Jeremy Dibler. Along with my co-host, Jennifer Dibler, we're produced today by Hutch. Dibler of Hutch Dibler, joined by Joel Robertson. Today's going to be fun, first of all because Jennifer and Joel really don't know each other.
Speaker 1:We really don't At all?
Speaker 2:We really don't. Joel and I got connected. Well, I mean, he's a client of mine, but the more we got to know each other, the more I'm like man. This guy has got an interesting life and so I told him one time I just want you to come on the podcast and just you know, we're just going to talk, tell stories and hang out a little bit. So that's what we're doing today. There was something I felt like I needed to say at the beginning, uh, of this one, like I can't remember.
Speaker 2:you like this camera angle better I don't know, I haven't seen it okay I'm sure I do, because I hate that angle of myself last week she was, we had moved the camera for one to my bad side.
Speaker 1:Hello, do you have a bad?
Speaker 2:side. Uh, yeah, I do do you really?
Speaker 1:everybody has a bad. What am I on?
Speaker 2:am I on your good side?
Speaker 1:Well, you're straight on. I don't know. Oh, you're saying, what are you on?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you, yeah. So like am I getting your good side?
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Because whenever I look in the mirror, it's flat. Well, it does have to do with your part.
Speaker 3:It has to do Okay so maybe I want to say this is my good side, the one without the part that's me, my part side, is not my good side.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like my part side, do you See? I don't have a symmetrical face, neither do I. Which isn't that Well you're in film. Isn't that like the tell of a good-looking person?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like symmetry.
Speaker 1:Who has the most symmetrical face? Do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, what's weird is like Does he need to be closer to his mic?
Speaker 3:If it's too symmetrical it starts to get a little weird.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like phases out. It's like a phase If you put like a mirror it kind of looks a little unnatural.
Speaker 3:So you kind of need a little bit of like you know.
Speaker 1:Too perfect is creepy Personality.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, bit of like you know, too perfect is creepy personality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, um, but yeah, I don't know I always felt like sandra bullock had a very symmetrical situation happening do you? No, I'm very not, very much not you're a where, let me see, I don't want to bring it up okay, well, I know your teeth, but it's my teeth. My teeth are all jacked up. I saw something about Tom Cruise.
Speaker 3:Good looking guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his teeth are wrong.
Speaker 3:He has a tooth right in the middle.
Speaker 1:He has a midline. I have a midline issue too.
Speaker 3:He and.
Speaker 1:I have the same issue. Okay, okay, see, now I'm also.
Speaker 3:Don't talk like that. I never noticed that until somebody mentioned it and I was like you know what it really is in the middle of his mouth.
Speaker 1:And when he goes. It's funny because when people come into the orthodontist, they've told me this, that they'll go. I want Tom Cruise's smile and the orthodontist is like no, you don't, because they notice that right away. I mean they're like no, you don't, he's jacked up.
Speaker 3:Yeah With me and what I do. I'm always picking apart things I'm like oh, I see what they did there.
Speaker 1:So what do you do?
Speaker 3:I do visual effects for music videos and commercials. I also do some beauty work for artists, so it's always funny when I can see when you say beauty work-.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's that mean?
Speaker 3:It's like smoothing out their skin Really rid of like blemishes and stuff oh nice, you know, we do a little bit of chin, tucks tummy tucks, okay, okay, airbrushing airbrushing.
Speaker 2:I kind of know your rate, though I think an actual tummy tuck might be cheaper I agree, plus then you just have it in life.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I think. Sometimes, though, they like to have Control over like how much, and then so you get notes back, you're like, eh, it's a little too much, or you can do a little more.
Speaker 1:You can't give names, but like are we Talking? Like what kind?
Speaker 2:of industry. You do.
Speaker 1:Ooh afterwards.
Speaker 2:No, it's client privilege, oh come on. You can share with me this will be the only thing from a client she's ever wanted to know.
Speaker 3:Divorces abuse she doesn't care.
Speaker 2:Who is Joel working with?
Speaker 1:Who's the beauty work? Who's getting the tummy tucks? They?
Speaker 2:used to do that to me Well, you told me it's dudes too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've done guys, and they're actually harder because.
Speaker 2:What do they want? Taken out.
Speaker 3:It's just like age, like wrinkles.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:But you want to keep that Fill in the hairline. You know the ruggedness. You don't want to get too plastic, because then it looks weird. So it's a very fine line.
Speaker 1:Dudes. It's not fair. They get better with age. Women we try to smooth everything out, but guys look more rugged, like they really do. It adds like, and it's not fair.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about that. Yeah, like gray hair, I love gray hair, but like a lot of women don't feel comfortable, like it really depends on the skin tone, some like the gray, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean you.
Speaker 2:Your mom always covered her gray yeah, she was completely gray yeah, I actually think gray hair can look good it can. It means some people have great gray yeah I like that politician that's got that one spot you like kelsey gabbard? Yeah, like she's got. Oh, those are kind of a skunk stripe, yeah right yeah, how do people get that?
Speaker 1:that's cool, I got. Oh, this is kind of a skunk stripe yeah, right, yeah, how do?
Speaker 2:people get that, that's cool I think, you're just born with a skunk spot. Yeah, yeah, I don't think I've ever heard you look at me and go honey, you look so rugged really yeah, you do have a rugged.
Speaker 1:He does have a rugged well, I mean, he's pretty sun damaged. He's got a lot of sun damage. You'd be smoothing that out. Real good, you're looking at people in real life going man. I wish I had you what I would smooth out on you, the things I could do.
Speaker 2:My gosh, you could look better, so you're going in there and like, like each wrinkle you're like taking out, like, is that what is so time consuming?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's tracking different parts of the face, because the face stretches and moves and so you track several different spots, A lot of it. You know it's like T area here. Here, you know, under the eyes, A lot of people have, like just naturally oily skin which is normal, but with lights and music videos like it tends to look a little shiny, so you just kind of dampen that down a little bit Nice.
Speaker 1:That's amazing that they can do that now. I know man we were talking about politics before we started. Trump's skin is out of control. Politics before we started. Trump's skin is out of control. I've never seen pores so big in my life. And you're thinking this guy has all the money. Like, get something done, buddy. Like do some poor something, do something his pores are humongous and his hair.
Speaker 3:There's like there's. Just I can't figure out what it's trying to do.
Speaker 1:I don't think anyone can it's kind of become its own character of you know, his hair is its own thing.
Speaker 3:I've seen a picture of it was Donald Duck, and then, if you flip it upside down, the beak is the hair. Yeah, I've seen that?
Speaker 1:oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I've never seen that, yeah which, by the way, we got a comment a couple of weeks ago on the show we were. Were talking about whether you'd rather be caught on stage without a shirt or without pants.
Speaker 2:And I said I would for sure rather be caught without pants. I don't want anybody seeing me with my shirt off, especially an audience and the other artists that I was talking to this about. They were like, no, rather be no shirt than no pants. And I think they misunderstood. I meant still with underwear on, I just. But jennifer goes. You were just thinking like winnie the pooh, like yeah, no pants, and so we got some comments from people that sent other cartoon characters and one of them is donald duck.
Speaker 1:Donald duck goes no pants. He has a shirt with no pants.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, and now it's kind of all I can see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such an odd way to draw, like who drew that and thought this is good.
Speaker 2:He needs a shirt.
Speaker 1:He needs a shirt but no pants.
Speaker 2:Let's go no pants. See how that goes, I wonder if they take the pants off.
Speaker 1:The other winnie the pooh characters do have pants, I know right, don't they?
Speaker 3:well, tigger's completely naked, which goes right along with his personality well, and these are conversations, oddly enough, that we've had, and I need to write a book about conversations heard in like creative really studios because it's like the note is.
Speaker 3:You know I was, I used to work on sesame street and one of the notes came back on one of the muppets interesting yeah, um, one of the muppets was like chewing on a nacho or something and it's just funny, like the note that comes in in email. It's like, yeah, when she suckles the nacho, you need to. You know like it's like. It's like, yeah, when she suckles the nacho, you need to. You know like. It's like the things heard inside a creative studio, you know.
Speaker 1:That is so funny. So have you been to the Sesame Street?
Speaker 3:I have not. So what they did is they shoot it in New York and they send all the footage over to Nashville, and this was years ago. They have other studios now that do some stuff, but yeah, they would send it to Nashville and we'd do all the green screen Because your kids would.
Speaker 1:How cool would that be to take your kids there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it would be really cool, but there's like a bunch of stuff on YouTube and HBO.
Speaker 1:Now they have Sesame Street and so I show my kids, I go, hey, you know dad worked on this.
Speaker 3:And they're right at that age four and two where they're just like, oh my gosh, they are the cutest.
Speaker 1:They are the cutest little boys. I work for your wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Jennifer does one day a week with Joel's wife Kate, who's also super interesting. She has a and I tell people this and they look at me and they go what. Yeah, Because they'll say okay, what is Jennifer doing? And I say well, one day a week she works for a jeweler who makes breast milk jewelry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then they kind of do this weird thing and then I kind of say, you know, she's doing pretty well, plus you go. When I show it to them they're like, oh okay, that's so pretty, like it sounds so weird. But, anyway, so I get to be around your boys. Oh my gosh, they are adorable, they are. Rocking the belt.
Speaker 3:Got to have that belt on Big belt guys.
Speaker 1:The belt. I mean every time I got my belt on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're so cute, they show you.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. So, cute the other day, the little Rylan the little one he was like your Alexa sitting there. He's literally up with his face in the Alexa going.
Speaker 3:Alexa, Alexa, he's trying to get her to do something. Alexa, yes, okay.
Speaker 1:Alexa yeah, trying to get her to do something.
Speaker 3:Play something yeah.
Speaker 1:Play something. Yeah, I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 3:With two-year-olds I can kind of get a sense of what he's talking about, but Alexa's like what? Yeah, there's no way, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:She didn't even light up. She was like you're not even talking to me. You're mispron, talk to me. Yeah, he usually doesn't want to talk to me, he's the quiet one. Oh, my gosh Adorable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're, I love them.
Speaker 2:That's funny, we don't? Well, you guys are, so you have Alexa, but you're iPhone users, yeah, okay. So Jennifer will sometimes yell at Siri and she'll go hey Siri, because she want to know the weather. But she'll I mean, we'll be laying in bed and she'll be like hey Siri, and Siri won't listen and she'll like she'll just keep escalating until where she's screaming hey Siri. And I'm like this is so convenient.
Speaker 1:It's so relaxing. But then I'll be talking to Sadie and it'll go boom, boom.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm just saying it wrong. It wants to hear Sadie.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the breast milk jewelry thing, it's not just breast milk, so she's also doing Ashes. She can make like an actual beautiful gem out of like ashes and sand and Anything really. And she told me the other day she's doing umbilical cords, which yeah that's so gross, but yeah it's gross did we keep we did, we did, but then everything was gone with the house but we kept it. What were we gonna do with it?
Speaker 1:you know it was what's one of those things where people are like you keep it. So you're like, oh, okay, I guess I have to keep it. I don't know and I don't want to not keep it. Then it's one of those things where people are like you keep it. So you're like oh okay, I guess I have to keep it. I don't know. If you don't want to not keep it, then it's gone forever.
Speaker 3:I've heard that some people keep it for the first couple years because of the stem cells that are in it.
Speaker 1:Even the dried up one. I don't know, I mean we have our cord blood from Sadie. We have that banked.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, okay, yeah, in fact I need to pay that bill. Yes, you do, but anyway, what will they do with it?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, they don't.
Speaker 2:I mean, she said she did placenta last week.
Speaker 1:So, people will preserve their placenta and put it in freeze. Dry it? Well, I don't think they do it themselves. They send it to a company that freeze dries it, and puts it in capsules and then you take it after you have the baby and it helps your hormones Well, people eat them. Right, but not in our country usually. Animals eat the placenta. I mean, I think it's how it's supposed to be, but ew.
Speaker 2:In other countries they fry them up.
Speaker 1:I think so. That's disgusting.
Speaker 2:Bread the placenta tonight, kids Not again Ew Mom.
Speaker 3:We have placenta every Thursday.
Speaker 2:Gross.
Speaker 1:But they send the cap, they send the freeze-dried capsule in and then she could sprinkle it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's disgusting she's not getting like a big old hunk of placenta. She does some really fun things with. I think she likes to challenge herself with. You know, gray um, he always likes to find rocks or things and he gives them to her and she, you know, so that she could make jewelry out of it and so he handed her, I think like a piece of painter's tape that he found I saw this this on Instagram Dirty and she made something beautiful out of that. It's quite amazing.
Speaker 1:It's amazing Because she just posted that story the other day and I was like, oh my goodness, what she made is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's an artist. Yeah, she is, it's crazy and she's a winner. I mean, kate doesn't do anything and she's a winner. I mean, kate doesn't do anything. Well, you know, yeah, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because you've got this history of you know you're in the movie business. Before that you were in the record business and you've got some really good like road stories van stories.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, our van period was probably not quite as long as your van period, and I mean you were grown men out there vanning it from concert to concert. I think I used your, I think I used your. Here's the Deal tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, here's the Deal tour At one point. What's the? Here's the Deal tour.
Speaker 3:Well it's you know, I don't know what's the here's the Deal tour? Well it's you know, I don't know Anybody who's had any sort of band experience kind of knows this. It's like anytime you play a show and then the promoter will come out and say, well, here's a deal.
Speaker 1:It's a big walk-up town. This is why yeah, here's why nobody's going to come tonight. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Here's the deal. Here's why nobody's going to come to that Exactly.
Speaker 1:Here's the deal.
Speaker 3:Here's the deal.
Speaker 1:What was your craziest?
Speaker 3:here's the deal we went. It was a town in Oregon. It was just like this podunk kind of like you know, logging kind of town we had. We were our drummer for, for whatever reason, could not make the tour, so we had um like a radio dj.
Speaker 2:Fill in for us, like on the drums.
Speaker 3:He was also like kind of promoting the tour through the radio station and so we were playing all the towns that it kind of hit, so um. So he's kind of learning the new songs. As we're kind of starting this tour, and I think day three, we had kind of started to realize like hey, this is nobody's coming to these things and it's like here's the oh, and it's his fault, yeah, kind of like um so interesting yeah, it's like this weird dynamic.
Speaker 3:Anyways, we get to this town in oregon and um, so of course he comes out, he goes, guys, here's the deal. Um, so we're playing at this church and the youth pastor, who is the youth pastor at this physical church last week, was just arrested because he was in charge of, like, the summer camp up in the hills, and they caught him putting cameras in the girls bathroom. Oh my God, and so nobody's going to be be here tonight. People are kind of angry about that, and so I can't imagine.
Speaker 3:Like uh, the other band that we were on tour with, they didn't have, like, um, you know, a new drummer that was like trying to practice. And so they're like we're, we're just gonna not set up at all, yeah. And we were like, well, we could use it, we could use the night for a practice, like yeah. So we set everything up and we did, and we were like, well, we could use it, we could use the night for a practice like yeah so we set everything up and we did the whole thing like.
Speaker 3:I think a handful of people showed up, maybe people did come yeah that's crazy, um, but anyways, yeah, we the it was the first note um, we had overloaded the the breakers and so like we had this whole intro. You know, like our, our drummer used to put butane on the snare and he'd light it, and then he had this big no hit and this fireball would go up.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's cool our, our singer would do a backflip. You know like it was like this are you serious? Yeah, oh my gosh, it was like a show.
Speaker 1:That's cool.
Speaker 3:So we did that. It was like the fireball goes up and right as we hit that first note, the power just goes out.
Speaker 2:Good night everybody, Thank you.
Speaker 1:You came for the fireball.
Speaker 3:So we reset everything, and then five people clapped, did it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, five people clapped, did it again. Yeah, five people clapped oh my gosh. We make it colder in here. We turn the AC down a little bit. Yeah, I'm hot. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. We had one where we got to Alabama to play a show and this was late in the game. Like we're, you know, this shouldn't have happened.
Speaker 2:The guy shouldn't have happened. Guys like here's the deal today's the auburn alabama game. Yeah, nobody's coming today.
Speaker 3:Yeah like why did you book the show?
Speaker 2:exactly on the day you knew the schedule like well, we, we were even like is it really gonna make that much difference? He's like.
Speaker 1:He's like yeah, and now my family lives in alabama and I'm like, oh wow now. Now I really know it is a religious holiday there.
Speaker 2:We had one tour where this is when things were going great and we had two. We had a sound guy, front house guy and a monitor guy, both of them on like salary and like a production lighting guy, and they, you know, after a hundred shows, those guys get bored, get bored and so they're like can we do this, can we do that? And they wanted for a couple of the bigger shows to bring out some confetti cannons oh my god and they had talked us into.
Speaker 2:Like guys, look, you have these big drum hits and one of your tunes and when we hit those snare hits we want it to be like snare snare confetti. And we were like, okay, just, I don't know. I was like talk to brian, if we got the money, you know we can do it. That's the bribe, this guy.
Speaker 2:He was always kind of a guy and so brian said, yeah, he's like, okay, if you how much you're gonna be, if you think it's gonna be great, do it. And so tonight was the night we were gonna use. So all of us in the band we knew when the cue was last chorus of this big song and and we were like, okay, we got these. And they used the word confetti cannon.
Speaker 2:So in my mind I'm thinking a shower of confetti, like a, like the republican national convention is just going to pour down on these people and it was like a bottle rocket that you buy at a stand here in franklin. It was like bam, bam like a gender reveal thing, exactly, yeah, it was, it was like a gender, except it only went out on one side and it only went like this and it shot directly at the people.
Speaker 1:So they were literally shot by the confetti. It was like it was so tacky, oh my gosh. And of course, we just were. We had lost it, we were lost at laughing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're like oh man, I think that's. They tried one more time to do it and we were like guys no.
Speaker 1:I did have a Beyonce fan in one of my songs. They would turn them on. They'd have these two fans.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you meant like a fan.
Speaker 1:No, fans, no, no, like fans, that would blow my hair.
Speaker 2:They didn't go the whole show.
Speaker 1:No, just during my one song. During that song.
Speaker 2:During that song, they made my hair glow how diva-like I know. Why don't I remember? This yeah, remember, I mean you've had these too. I'm sure where you get there and the local production people are like oh, we just got this new equipment. And I mean we had this happen a couple of times, probably a half dozen times, where they, for the show, had bought a hazer and they didn't realize that when you use a hazer you got to haze the room and let it dissipate.
Speaker 2:so it's not like uber intense, and it's it's for lighting effects, right, and so they turned the hazers on.
Speaker 1:They were so before the show and then as soon as we walked out, they went.
Speaker 2:If there was a hazer level lever, they just went. 11 on the hazer and we were up there getting haze to the point where we couldn't see each other we're standing next to each other like we are this close, as we are around this table and the haze is just pouring in and it's just and we're going, we're like waving, trying to, and they're just keep ha hazing it was not enough for them.
Speaker 1:We lost it in that one.
Speaker 2:We did Good thing, we had a good sense of humor, yeah Well you have to.
Speaker 1:You have to yeah, you have to.
Speaker 3:There was one of our shows we had. There was a song that was kind of like a more mellow type thing. So the church that we were playing with asked for a set list beforehand so they could create some graphics for the show. So we said here's our list and a lot of it I think we played on a Sunday morning. So we only played like maybe four or five songs and two of them were like just your standard worship stuff and uh, one of them was this original one. It was the last song and it was kind of like bringing things down and um, so we start playing it and I turn, I turn around and I see on the big screen that's behind us. Um, it's like a hand, it's like a badly drawn like lady, like it's a sketch.
Speaker 3:It's like a sketch, but like from like somebody. It just did not know what they were doing and it was, and then it had the song title above it and it was like it had our logo underneath it and um, I saw it and I just started laughing. And you know, it's supposed to be this like somber thing and I'm just, like you know, playing the song and laughing and then, like one by one, you see each person like look up and see the scene.
Speaker 1:I wish I could take a picture of it. Oh, how classic. It was so good. Those are the best.
Speaker 3:It was almost like they pranked us, you know.
Speaker 1:What makes someone go. This will be good. This is what we need. That reminds me of.
Speaker 3:I could use my picture of my grandma for this.
Speaker 1:Yes, the one I drew, yeah the one I drew. Do you remember the lady that tried to fix that painting, Gosh? Where was that? You remember the lady that tried to fix that painting, Gosh, where was that? That was like in Italy. It was like some painting that was in. You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I don't.
Speaker 1:The face had worn off this Jesus painting and she went in and tried to fix it.
Speaker 3:You guys have to Google it. It is the best thing ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so bad. Yeah, it was in the news about 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, we were touring a lot when churches just started to adopt like I never know whether it's iMeg or iMeg or whatever Churches were using cameras to broadcast the preacher on their big screens, to, like you know, broadcast the preacher on their big screens. And so they put big screens on the sides. And you know, now churches have gotten a lot better at it, for sure, and you know it wasn't just churches like concert venues or whatever, but at the beginning they were not. So we would go into these auditoriums and they'd be like, oh, we're excited to use our equipment tonight and my father-in-law, who was on tour with us at the time, he was great at gone, listen, you know, a lot of these, a lot of their show is band interaction. So if it's just one person on the screen, that's kind of weird. So they prefer that you not use it. And you know, sometimes it would be like, okay, if it's a 3000 seat room, yeah, but churches were putting in these screens and there's 300 seats in there.
Speaker 2:And we're going like I don't even know how these people are focusing on this screen, but I mean the poor camera operators. And then they started to get wise and they'd have a person who's back there like, but you'd walk in and you'd see like these junior high school kids with the thing, you know, the microphone and the headphones.
Speaker 1:They're all excited.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh no, this is going to be one of those.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But we did it. Yeah, you know, using their gear.
Speaker 1:How did you go from music to film? Stuff Wait.
Speaker 2:I'll answer that question.
Speaker 3:But before tell her the story about didn't you have a promoter that was also a guitar player? Oh, yeah, okay, I gotta hear this one. It was in, uh, winston-salem, uh, north carolina, north carolina, yes, at uh, we. So the band that I was playing in at the time was called esterlin, and we were kind of this indie rock kind of band, and so they go. Hey, our next show is at a Harley Davidson store.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. So there's all these Harleys out and we're not quite the Harley crowd. So the promoter calls and says hey, I'm kind of a shredder myself, Like I would you know. I think it'd be really cool if, like, I could come up there and like shred with you guys for a couple of songs, and you know like. None of our songs are even close to like shredding material.
Speaker 3:Which would be a good name for a band and so our you know, our singer was like gracious, but uh, you know, um, yeah, I don't think that that's kind of our vibe, and I think the promoter said well's going to happen, or the show isn't going to happen.
Speaker 2:It's like kind of what I do, and so oh, it was like if you're going to have, if you guys are going to play, I'm going to be playing too. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And if I'm not, you're not.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Jeez, so we go well okay.
Speaker 2:When you say it like that yeah.
Speaker 3:Maybe we can do like a worship song that everyone knows and then you can just come on stage and play with us on that. Okay, let's do that. So we get there and we're sitting up on the stage at Harley store and this guy pulls up with like a van full of like a half stack and like and and so I go. Oh, you must be, you know. So the yeah and he goes no, I'm, I'm just the roadie.
Speaker 3:So like he had, like a roadie come and bring all of his stuff for him and set it all up, and then then he, and then he gets there, and so we're like, okay, here's the plan, we're going to play our set.
Speaker 2:Here's the deal. Yeah, here's the deal.
Speaker 3:We'll play our set and then you can come for our last song it's just like a worship song and then you can do your thing, and then that'll be a good transition for us to get off the stage and you're do your thing, and then that'll be a good transition for us to get off the stage and you're already on stage, you can do your thing, and then so we play our set and then he comes on and from the first, not even the second click of the sticks to start, the song.
Speaker 3:It's like one two and he's already in. He's shredding. Yeah, he's already just like.
Speaker 1:Pre-shred.
Speaker 2:Playing with his teeth on the opening note.
Speaker 3:And so we're going okay here we go and then you know the intro. He's shredding, Okay, okay, we're in the verse and he just keeps playing. He's shredding over the verse and so we're like, okay, and then we get to the chorus and he just keeps shredding. And then we get to the end of the song and he's shredded for like three and a half minutes, While you guys vamped. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you're the guitar player, so it's kind of offensive yeah.
Speaker 3:I was just like this is kind of odd and you're thinking I can't wait to talk about this later.
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly, you know when you're sitting there and you're like, oh, this is good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is gonna be so fun um, and then so we finally get to the end and we're like, okay, you know everyone, you know, okay, last note, boom. And then you know he keeps going and so we're like I guess we'll go for another, you know. So we go, we go, okay, last one, boom. And he keeps going and so like, probably about three or four times of like us trying to end the song, oh my gosh. So we were just like I guess we just end it. So like we hit the last note and we kind of trash it and then you know, then we're done. And then he's like it's like that, it's that moment where he's like shredding and then he goes and then he realizes like nobody's, you know still playing anymore.
Speaker 3:It's like that back to the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then he gets up and walks up to the microphone. He says well, he says don't mind me, I'm just going gonna shred for a little bit longer. And as we're like walking off the stage, um, he's just, you know, he's playing and and I I have enough time to get off the stage, walk to the back, where the front of the house is, and I'm watching him play the national anthem with his teeth no, legit with his teeth, with his teeth.
Speaker 3:No Legit with his teeth. With his teeth, yeah, oh my gosh. What are people doing?
Speaker 2:What an idiot, Just like you know just, I guess enjoying the show Enjoying the shredding.
Speaker 1:Who ever enjoyed shredding anyway?
Speaker 3:I don't know, it's never that enjoyable, maybe for the person shredding.
Speaker 1:I think that's the only one who was enjoying it.
Speaker 2:It is kind of an indulgent self-indulgent. It was just funny oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So what did he say afterwards? Did he pay?
Speaker 3:you? Yeah, he paid and went along our way and we got a good story out of it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's the best.
Speaker 3:Good shredding with you. Yeah, good shredding.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's classics.
Speaker 3:So, anyways, that's classics, so, anyways, um, that's my the shredding story I have another shredding story, but that maybe that's another episode no, go ahead, let's go people can
Speaker 3:fast forward right through it. We have um another. It must be hard to hold down drummers. Because there was another time where we had a drummer couldn't make it he was going to a wedding or something and we had a fly date, just like a couple shows, and our manager was like we need somebody to fill in for the drums. Like we can't find anybody who's available. And so I said, um well, I think the guy at our church like he you said that yeah, I, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm like he's a drummer, like I'm wondering if he's available. So they were like, yeah, see, if he is. So I call him up and I'm like, hey, you know, would you be able to play with us this weekend? And he says, oh, yeah, yeah. And so I said, okay, great, I'll get you all the tracks and and everything that you need. And he was like tracks and I was like, oh no, oh no, um. So I was like this is your first time playing with like click and tracks.
Speaker 3:he's like, yeah, I said, okay, we'll, we'll figure it out, we'll get it oh, no, and um, so, anyways, we, we got him the all the you know the stems and the tracks and um, so we're trying to. You know, we're like I mean, poor guy, he was trying to learn, you know, like a whole set of songs and figure out the track thing, and so you know, I feel bad for him. But it was kind of one of those moments where, like, we get to the venue and he's been practicing in the van the whole time and we get there, we set up all the up, everything for him. He's got all of his notes on a music stand and we go all right, let's try the sound check. So we do the first song in our playlist Fireball. This is a different band. This is no Fireball.
Speaker 1:No Fireball anymore, Fireball this is no fireball, no fireball anymore. This is like. This is the era. This new guy trying to do the fireball, this is the era, you know, where everyone wore like newsy type.
Speaker 3:You know okay, vests and stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're talking hipstery.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, we were very hipster, okay um, so, anyways, we play that song and it goes perfect. Fine, it goes fine. And so I'm like, okay, great, we go backstage and we wait until the people arrive, and then we get out on stage when it's our time and we play that first song, no Problems, and it goes right into the second song, but the BPM cuts and it goes right into the second song, but the BPM cuts. Like the first song is a very high energy song and then the second song is much more subdued and it's this very intricate guitar intro. Okay, which is you? It's me. And so I can tell from the way he clicked us in that it's the wrong BPM. And I'm thinking, thinking, oh, he's playing the same, the first track again. Oh no, he hits spacebar or something. Something happened where it just it was on repeat or something. And so I can tell he clicks me in much faster than normal and and I'm playing this intricate part so fast it's like I'm shredding.
Speaker 1:You're shredding. It's not a ballad anymore.
Speaker 2:I can barely keep up and I'm just like oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:And I turn around and I go, hey, I'm like cut the tracks, because the tracks are also playing in the mains.
Speaker 2:Oh no.
Speaker 3:And I'm like cut it, cut it. And he's in his world. Because he's in his world Cause he's like he's just he's looking at his notes and he's not looking around, and so I'm trying to get his attention. While I'm still trying to do this, and you know, like the singer's like singing really fast, it's like, and so I finally get in front of him, I'm like cut the tracks. And so he finally cuts the tracks and I'm like okay, but he's still like a runaway train. So we're like, so I'm like, okay, now slow it down, slow it down. And so like, and I'm like slow it way down. And he went from like playing really fast to like Half time.
Speaker 2:Slow motion speed up yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, okay, bring it back up and we finally get to a good tempo. And I'm like, okay, I can turn around and start singing again. And then it was just like you kind of it, just like throughout the song it just got faster and faster. Towards the end, we were just still like.
Speaker 1:You're back to shredding. That's my shredding story. That's where you got to shred, which is nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if you had this experience, because you well, you probably didn't. But for whatever reason, the I didn't know what click was. I didn't know, click existed until we moved here, so the con funny because you were a drummer I know so the concept of well, I mean in marching band, you know you had this like bing bing, so but I didn't know that when you recorded you went into like we play to a click so that it's, and man, I'm not used to it.
Speaker 2:It's right jarring yeah, yeah I mean, and you know I wasn't playing drums, on our record so did, but I just remember thinking, oh, that's how all this stuff like ends up right now, this is before auto-tune and all that.
Speaker 2:But I just remember the concept of click being just crazy. And then we would, you know, on our first couple of um recording records. You know, this was before music was in a computer and so we would record to digital audio tape and we would record just stacks and stacks and stacks of vocals and then we would fly, you know, those vocals from one chorus to the next, but the engineer would have to align them like with like. They would have to like do the math and code it out. Now, you know, I've watched hutch do it in his bedroom and he can. He can click through it faster than I can even think it, which I'm, you know, I'm sure you're way, but it's amazing how things have changed.
Speaker 1:Didn't we just hear too about Christopher Cross the sailing?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:The orchestra. Weren't they putting that in?
Speaker 2:You're talking about the song sailing? Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:The orchestra that starts the song. They were trying to put it in and they accidentally put it in at the wrong time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they aligned it wrong.
Speaker 3:They aligned it wrong.
Speaker 1:They aligned it wrong and they were like oh my gosh, this is so cool. It's like a cool polyrhythm yes, intro.
Speaker 2:Well, the orchestra wasn't supposed to come in until halfway through the song, but when they were rolling playback, the second tape tape machine didn't catch up and so all they heard was vocal and orchestra. And and Christopher Cross's brother had never heard the song before, and so he's sitting in there listening down for the first time and he goes, guys, this is so beautiful, I love this, and it's actually a friend of ours, michael Amartian and Christopher Cross. They were like really, and that was the first time it dawned on them.
Speaker 1:To keep it like that.
Speaker 2:And they won. Arrangement of the year.
Speaker 1:For an accident.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that stuff, I love that stuff too, that's what's so?
Speaker 3:great about art is it's like you know you talk about Bob Ross is the happy accident.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's just like when you're being creative and you're open to the process and you, if you don't have like a set like it needs to be this like, and you let it be what it is. Yeah, a lot of great art comes that way. Um, and it, you know it, it happens in my field, just doing like visual effects, where you're like you try something and then you're like, oh, that actually kind of works. Yeah, I like it yeah, yeah, our.
Speaker 2:I don't mean to bring it all back to our stuff, but I had a similar experience on the on our first record, the one that that kind of gave us our jump start. You know, people have talked about the songwriting on that record and how they like it and it's. You know, it's simple. And I tell them, I knew two guitar chords. That's how these songs you know what I mean they're like. How did you come up with just having using these two chords? And I'm like those were the two I knew. Those are the two she taught me.
Speaker 2:Any other chords you hear we learned in the studio. But yeah, I think it just does happen. And then when you're making art you can be so excited about things one through eight, and things nine and ten can be just well, we'll put that up and those end up being like magic.
Speaker 3:I've had several jobs where I didn't even want to put it on my reel. I was just like this is so horrible. I felt bad giving it to them, but it was like we're out of time. I've spent all I can on this and it ends up winning Video of the Year or something.
Speaker 2:And I'm just like.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't even put this on my reel, but how other people interpret it is different from how what your experience is Okay.
Speaker 1:So tell us now how you got from music to what you do now. It's so interesting that you. It's like two different, completely different careers.
Speaker 2:Was it? Did you get sick in the middle or were you already doing movie stuff?
Speaker 3:I got sick after I left the band.
Speaker 2:You did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was. I've always been an artist and you know, I did go back. So reno yeah, I grew up in reno, nevada. Oh okay, um, I'll probably be the only person you'll ever meet from reno nevada, because no one ever leaves um, and I didn't realize that I could leave until I was like 24 you know, I was, was like oh. I can move.
Speaker 1:Did you go to school somewhere? Did you go to college?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did two years at UNR.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Which is their university there?
Speaker 1:And you're like, oh my gosh, I can actually go out of here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can leave. Did you guys never go to Tahoe?
Speaker 3:We did. Tahoe's so close yeah tahoe was really close, beautiful we'd go there it was. I was never a big fan of snow, though, and so like it's a snow town you were in the wrong place, yeah so I just kind of was like, when the option was like you can leave, I was like yeah, I think I'm gonna leave, I'm out um, but growing up in reno, I was always an artist.
Speaker 3:I was an art major, um, and this is like the early days of like pixar, and so I was like I'd love to do that, but there was at that time there was no like four-year program for anything like that. It was like a you could get an associates or something, and so there wasn't really like a plan to go anywhere.
Speaker 2:So computing power was so slow, right. You couldn't do this at home, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, you had to be at a place like pixar in order to be able to do that so I mean, that was kind of always I guess my set like this is what I'm gonna do, um. But then I also had this passion for music and being in the band and so at the time I I was like the music was somewhat successful and so I was like I'm just going to follow this and see where it goes, because I can do art later. Music is a very small window that you can do it, and that's really the time you should do it is when you're young. Yeah, you can't do it, you don't have any.
Speaker 1:You can't do it when you're young yeah, you can't do it. You don't have any. You can't do it when you're older yeah, you don't make enough money, yeah Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean we had one of the bands I was in. They hired a bass player who was 19. And he's like I get paid. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and you can do that. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I told Hutch when he decided to do music full time, I was just like you. Really only need to know one word yes, do you play bass? Yes, yes. Keys, yes, drums, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:Exactly so. I was just kind of, I got a job working at like a small television station just in the summers, at like a small television station just in the summers, um, and I I really liked it because I was. They gave me freedom, so I was like, hey, I need two months off so I can go on this small tour. And they were like great, like, and I could come back to a job, and so that's kind of what I did for a couple years.
Speaker 3:I was going to school, yeah okay, I was going to school playing, you know just weekend shows, and then working at this television station and then I moved out to nashville on a kind of a whim. It was like um, the, the band that I was playing for was kind of um. That was the first like like real band that I played in and it was so much different from, I guess, industry, because it's your friends.
Speaker 3:Like it was you and three other dudes against the world and you just go out and it was so fun.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And then you know, sometimes when you're playing for other people it becomes this job in the industry. So that's what was fun about that. But our singer had kind of embezzled a bunch of money from the band and moved.
Speaker 2:You have some unfortunately very cliche lead singer experiences. Like when you talk about your lead singer experiences. I start to feel guilty.
Speaker 3:I'm like I don't think I was like that. So he had kind of upped and moved and it was either move there to follow him and try to see if this band thing will work out. But then in the back of my mind I was like he took a bunch of money. Yeah, that's not going to work, you know.
Speaker 3:So I was like if I'm going to move anywhere I'm just going to see if anyone in Nashville would have me you know, so we had some connections in Nashville and so I just kind of put out some feelers and I got a, an audition in Nashville and um, uh, I got got the job playing guitar, uh, and what I realized now I was like why would they hire a guy from Reno, like to? You know, I'm like I'm, I'm happy for it, I'm glad it brought me here, but I had realized that the artist was notoriously difficult. And so everyone in town was like sorry you know like, so they needed to look elsewhere for players, and so that's where I came in.
Speaker 2:Nobody from this band is from Nashville, oddly enough. You guys know each other.
Speaker 3:No, no so, anyways, that's what brought me here, um, but, uh, when I was, when I was playing, there was always a need for um, like graphics on stages you know. So, um, I did all the content, um, you know, for like live stuff and that turned into bands that we were on tour with.
Speaker 3:They were like hey, we'd like some content also okay and then their managers would take notice and then they'd be like, hey, would you be interested in doing a music video?
Speaker 3:And then so it kind of like snowballed from there and then you know lyric, you know lyric videos and those sorts of things, um, and then I kind of just made the jump into actual visual effects and that's kind of where I'm like that's my sweet spot, because the way that my brain works is I like puzzles, I like kind of tinkering and figuring out how something that is never you don't know how it's done you just got to kind of figure it out, and I love those sorts of problems.
Speaker 3:And so the vfx to me is that, like you know, the motion graphic stuff is cool and you can be creative and artistic with it, but it's that like problem solving aspect of the vfx that I really enjoy. And so when I left the band in 2000, like basically Christmas of 2010, and then I came home to Nashville and was just kind of looking for my next thing, I went down to Haiti with my friend, mark Stewart from Audio Journal and I did some video stuff there with them and I came back and then, um, I was like, well, you know, maybe I should look into like getting a house and insurance and so being adult, being, yeah, being an adult and at the time that was kind of like being an adult and at the time that was kind of like when everything kind of just crashed.
Speaker 1:It was after the 2008.
Speaker 3:Oh it was the big, yes, housing crash. There was no work. Had you met Kate yet? Not yet. Okay, yes, yes, kate and I were dating when I was in that band. But there was in that band but there was like there was no one hiring. So, like I reached out to all my contacts that I'd done like motion graphics for I was like, hey, does your label need you know anyone doing this? And they're like we'd love to work with you, but we just don't have positions.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So I was kind of forced into like doing my own thing, starting my own company okay, freelance, freelance. Thing and I'm so glad that it right that I did that now because I have, you know, autonomy.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah, that's kind of how I made that made that jump.
Speaker 3:And then I found out that I had cancer. Um, in that process of what in the world?
Speaker 2:yeah, so it's like the windy road um but so that had to be terrifying yeah, yeah um, hey, hutch, hey, can you come check your phone a sec, because it showed like it was low battery. Just make sure it's got enough on there, because I don't want to. If we're going to talk about cancer, I want to make sure we don't want it to cut out yeah well, here's the thing about cancer thanks everybody, we'll uh fireball
Speaker 2:um what? He's gonna get a come plugger okay, you know, while he's getting that plug. Um, okay, you know, while he's getting that plug, mark was recently in an accident.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just saw him the other day at Starbucks. He hurt himself real bad. I mean I think he's okay now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw him at church. He goes to Conduit, okay.
Speaker 1:Yes, because his wife is in this group of friends that I yeah. Friends of friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I talked to him, I was like I didn't realize you were in an accident. He was like, yeah, he told me Crazy. It was like his whole head was like JFK, almost like yeah.
Speaker 1:What's so funny? Because his wife was like you know, he still has a spot back there and she'll go. Can you see it still has a spot back there, he'll go. Can you see it?
Speaker 3:she's like, oh no it's fine, she's like I don't tell him, but he was like, yeah, it's. I guess a couple years out now from that accident yeah, because I was.
Speaker 1:I'm on a group text with a whole bunch of those, those ladies and they, whenever it happened, they were like, hey, this is going on.
Speaker 3:Pray for these guys.
Speaker 1:Blah, blah, blah. So crazy, Can you imagine? And it?
Speaker 3:was like in another third world country. It was in Africa.
Speaker 1:They were on a safari in Africa. Wow, I mean, that's not a place to have an accident.
Speaker 3:No not at all. You know his wife.
Speaker 1:I've met her. She's friends of that whole group of Nikki.
Speaker 3:She's one of the reasons I'm here Really In Nashville. She was one of my contacts that we had.
Speaker 1:What does she do?
Speaker 3:She used to work for. I think it was EMI at the time. I think that's how they met.
Speaker 1:Oh right. What's her name? Aegis. Do you know the story behind that?
Speaker 3:Not really. I know that labels um they kind of frown on like dating the artists oh, I just meant her name.
Speaker 1:Do you know the story?
Speaker 3:yeah, I've just never heard that before ages ages it's like a-G-E-I-S or something. A-g. Yeah, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:It's spelled funny, is this yours. No, that's.
Speaker 2:Hutch's, oh, this bar.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was curious what that was.
Speaker 1:Sorry, did you bring a bar? He set it down when he was moving that.
Speaker 3:Is that one of those scrubbing brushes? No, that's a Clif Bar.
Speaker 1:Same thing. You could use it for a scrubbing brush.
Speaker 3:Okay, so Are we back in yeah.
Speaker 2:So what were you? How did you find out you had cancer?
Speaker 3:It was part of that process of well, I'm kind of jobless right now, like what do I do?
Speaker 1:I'm going to get cancer. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and get cancer. I don't have a job. I'm going to go ahead and get cancer.
Speaker 2:Knock this out, Get it out of the way, going to get this anyways, might as well.
Speaker 3:Do it now. I'm young.
Speaker 1:I'm in between jobs. Let's get the cancer over with.
Speaker 3:It was one of those things where I was like, okay, you know, I don't necessarily have like a plan, but I need to start like figuring out my life, because at that point I think I was like 27, 28. I start like figuring out my life because at that point I think I was like 27 28. I was kind of getting, you know, I need to like become an adult, yeah. And so I felt the need. I was like, okay, insurance. And I was gonna look at like, okay, what does it look like if I get my own place? And so I just started going through that process and um, so I called the insurance company and they said, yeah, um, it looks like you don't, you don't have like any medical like we, what we need from you is like a checkup okay yeah, they come and take your blood and all that stuff before they let you have insurance, and then we'll approve.
Speaker 3:You see, if you have any predispositions pre yeah you know, looked, you know, for somebody within their network, found them, called them and booked, you know, an appointment. And at that point it was like it wasn't an emergency. So they're like, okay, two weeks from now, you know you can come in, we'll get you in. And so I was like okay. So within that two week period, the insurance company had said, said they sent me an email that said hey, congratulations you're, you've been approved. And so I was like okay, um, I called them and I was like do I need to do this checkup now that you've I've been approved? And they were like yeah, you should probably still do it, just to get it in the system. And you, you know like you could have your yearly checkups. And so I was like, okay, I'll just keep the appointment.
Speaker 3:And when I went there, the doctor was like, hey, I think we need to take a look at this. And so he's like I'm going to send you to get this scan here and it's probably nothing. But were you in pain? I had some discomfort, um, and I had mentioned. I was like, hey, this thing you know like, um, but I, I didn't. I was like what you know I'm 27.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, anyways, he was like, yeah, I'm sorry to tell you this, but yeah, you have cancer. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Not in that first meeting, like you went to another.
Speaker 3:No, it was that first day that I got. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, Were you by?
Speaker 2:yourself, yeah, yeah, because you were thinking yeah, I'm just going for a checkup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you had the insurance at this point. Yeah, which is amazing, that's a miracle, which is a big legal thing.
Speaker 3:They were like well, this was before pre-existing conditions.
Speaker 1:That's what I was trying to say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so their lawyers and people were taking a look at that going. Well, did you know you had cancer? But really, unless you had a diagnosis, before yeah, even if you suspected cancer. Right, it's not a pre-existing, so I got in, just I mean, I call it.
Speaker 1:It's like a god thing it really is a miracle, I mean gosh, yeah, so so how do you?
Speaker 2:was he like, hey, you might want to sit down?
Speaker 3:yeah, he, well he's, you know, I he. When I left the appointment he said it's probably nothing, just yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. Um, and then on my way home I got the call from him and I was like, oh, that's not good yeah um. So he said, yeah, it came back and it is cancer, so like he tells you this on the phone yeah, did he ask you what?
Speaker 1:you were doing, did he say I mean, I don't recall, and you're driving and he tells you this yeah oh my gosh yeah, were you like?
Speaker 2:what kind?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, I'd known it was testicular cancer. Okay, so like we are kind of already knew, like the area, and so I mean, gosh of cancers, you should get the, the testicular cause. It's got like a 90% survival yeah. Did you know that at the time. No, okay, but doing research, you know, like you kind of, you find out these things and it really is like one of the best ones, like right.
Speaker 2:Of all the cancers, 10 out of 10. I recommend.
Speaker 1:If you're going to get cancer, pick this one.
Speaker 2:Although it well I mean from one guy to another, it sounds like it hurts.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you don't. I mean that's a sensitive spot, it's contained.
Speaker 1:It's not flying around everywhere. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's one of the few cancers that, when it metastasizes, it follows a path Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting yeah.
Speaker 3:And other cancers just go wherever when it metastasizes, and so we knew that we could at least cut it off. You know like cut, you know I don't use that word I mean literally and metaphorically are you, well, you have kids.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you have. Obviously you're not ballless, right? Okay okay, you've probably talked so much about testicles by now that you don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 3:I mean it's. You know I can definitely run faster now, but um, no, that was one of my concerns is like okay, well, we don't have kids and I want so were you married at this point. Yeah, uh, no, but I was dating Kate, so we had dated for like four years.
Speaker 2:Oh wow.
Speaker 1:You knew.
Speaker 2:So we were like yeah, you were locked in.
Speaker 3:We're doing this, and that's one of the reasons why I was like, yeah, I need to marry her, because she stuck with me through that whole period and she was great yeah.
Speaker 2:When she decides she's going to do something, she does it yeah. And so, yeah, when she decides she's going to do something, she does it yeah.
Speaker 1:And so yeah, you have kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did the doctor?
Speaker 1:were they like we don't know, or were they pretty positive about you being okay?
Speaker 3:They had a whole plan and you know you can definitely do the surgeries and they were like I think we got it, but if you want you can do the chemo and be sure. And so I was like I'm just going to do the chemo, just to be sure? Yeah, just to be sure, knock it out, knock it out, and so I did.
Speaker 1:Did you lose hair and everything?
Speaker 3:Oh, I was bald and I'm not a good bald. Now you know.
Speaker 1:But you have lots of hair, you're, you're not going bald anytime, yeah, unless it's yeah, I mean, unless it was something like that, you got lots of hair it was like, I mean when I was in, like the fireball band.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had dreads like it was always like a source of like pride, like my hair is like yeah, no it's a big deal.
Speaker 3:It's a big deal, and so to go completely bald was just like oh did you lose eyelashes and brows? Yeah, and it's like it's so funny. Back then it wasn't funny, but like, when people look at you they go like if you don't have eyebrows they don't necessarily pick up on that right, but they know something's weird. So they're like.
Speaker 1:They just look at you like Something's missing, but I can't figure it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can't figure out what's wrong with you.
Speaker 1:You look like a Muppet. Somehow Do you save them. You're like it's eyebrows, yeah it's, you know, gut cancer. Let me help you.
Speaker 2:And what you're staring at, I don't have eyebrows, it's like when you meet someone with a lazy eye, you want them just to tell you it's this one, yeah.
Speaker 3:Or you know this one, this one's no good. Yeah, yeah, um, but oddly enough, like and I don't know if you've experienced this um with your chemo, but when my hair started to grow back after I was done, it came back so much thicker and oh interesting it was like curly did you not, and you were always straight hair it was so weird did you like?
Speaker 1:That's a lot to get used to.
Speaker 3:It was no, I didn't like it yeah.
Speaker 2:But now it's not curly Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's gone back to.
Speaker 1:It was just that initial.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that initial.
Speaker 1:Oh, how interesting yeah. I'll tell you what is weird we talked about.
Speaker 2:Gray hair is way wirier, I mean seriously, it's like cabling, I mean it comes out and then it just starts doing its own.
Speaker 1:Gray hair is weird.
Speaker 3:And it grows faster at least mine do. Yeah, they're way longer. They got a little bit.
Speaker 2:Do you color it? No, oh Well, man, my grays are weird Well, I think everybody.
Speaker 1:So if you see a woman with good gray hair, you're like wow you've got good hair. I mean it's a blessing, because usually gray hair is like.
Speaker 2:So were you ever worried that you were going to die? Yeah, were you, okay? So, even though you had the good kind, yeah, I mean that word is scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that word is scary, but yeah, it's. You know, at least for me, I had this moment of you know, in the Bible it talks about you make me lie in green pastures. And that was my moment, you know. It was like well, I can't even lift myself up. I was so weak. I had lost like 40 or 50 pounds, like it's just because your appetite goes away and you're just weak, and all I could do was just sit and I felt like Jesus was like sitting next to me.
Speaker 3:I had this really kind of nice time where nobody was expecting anything of me, I was just existing, um, but I I always felt like god kind of had my back and it was this moment of like, just sit with me, you know I, I, I remember that is that was one of the.
Speaker 2:The realizations of chemo was just like and I had gotten sick during, like the infusion, so I was on a lot of nausea. So I wasn't really that nauseous, but I just remember thinking. I think I even told her. I said I can't imagine how I would ever have imagined being this tired, like I mean just lifting my arm, but and I don't, you know, I had kids and so I really was. I didn't not that you enjoyed it, but I didn't feel like the Jesus. I just wanted to get out of this bed and get back, like I just wanted to prove that this isn't going to take me out.
Speaker 2:I think the second year I had chemo, having having been like okay, I come out of this, this is the way it feels like I was able to handle it better, but that the first year I was like man I, I want to get out of this bed as soon as possible.
Speaker 1:I was probably the unknown of, I'm not sure how long, but then the second time you know. Okay, there is an end to this. I am going to feel better.
Speaker 2:I had never been scared really my whole life. Fear was not. I had a lot of shame, you know, regret, all that, but I just wasn't. I wasn't really a scared person, and when I got sick I was overcome by fear. I had some misdiagnoses and so I was scared of dying. I was scared of being alone. I mean, I was just really, really scared. And so I don't think I don't think I was really leaning in at the time to like, okay, what's the gift in this?
Speaker 3:for me.
Speaker 2:I just you know, and it wasn't. You know, jennifer was great. She's like look, you're never going to be alone. I got you, like the kids and I. You know, I just I wanted to get back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's. It feels like there's no way out, Like yeah.
Speaker 3:Like at least when I was in it, it was um, it felt like this was my new reality and it, you know, like my old life, where I was traveling and playing in bands and, you know, just living seemed so far away from where I was. Yes, totally, you know, I felt it was this new thing, that it was like this is like a life changing thing and I'm going to always be here. It felt like that. Yeah, and I know that you know things get better and you, you know you get out of that.
Speaker 2:But when you're in.
Speaker 3:but you didn't know, then right, like you just were like yeah, yeah, when you're in that pit, it feels like you're there.
Speaker 2:Well, I remember when we came back from South Africa I was sick and, for whatever reason, we had gotten 70 show offers while we were gone.
Speaker 1:We were there for six months.
Speaker 2:And we I mean that was unusual, especially because we had sort of oversaturated our markets and Brian had called and said hey, what do you want me to do with these offers? And I just remember thinking I am so far from that right now.
Speaker 1:I just want to make sure I'm not dying, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean I was seriously scared of dying and I had also had one doctor who had kind of put that in my brain a little bit and so. But we went and visited a friend during this time and um, and he said, you know, could, could a couple of us just get together and just pray for you specifically? And we did pray and one of the guys was like, hey, can I share something? That I kind of got this sense of during the prayer and I said, yeah, please, he goes. You know, this thing, it feels really big to you because it's right in front of you. He said I just don't think it's as big as and I couldn't have imagined then how little being sick has become.
Speaker 2:You know I still take some pills and I know that I've got a thing.
Speaker 1:but and you have pain a lot.
Speaker 2:I do, but it's not, it hasn't been this defining it's. It's informed me, but no more. I mean she can't. She can't be near a smell like for her.
Speaker 2:Like I think that informs her as much as MS informs, informs me. Um, it's just, I'm surprised. You know, I had a guy tell me you know, by this point you're gonna be using a cane. You know, I've long passed the point where he told me I've been in a be, in a wheelchair, like um, I just, you know, it's funny, I think I'm a little superstitious because I always feel like I need to say thank the Lord, in God's kindness. But here I am. You know, I think I am superstitious actually because I always want to say you know, by God's grace, yeah, I'm just regular.
Speaker 3:Sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm not super.
Speaker 3:That's superstitious. I'm just regular, I thinkitious, I'm just regular stiches. I think that was the office quote or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, mike Weaver, the guy that we had on last week, you know this guy is. Ever since I've known him, I felt like he just his relationship with the Lord is just so sincere and close. But he said something and he said, knock on wood. And I was like, oh, you even do that.
Speaker 3:That makes me feel better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I, you know, I've, I'm always, when I when I tell, when I tell good story, like stories of goodness, I always feel like I need to like, qualify it somehow, Like it's not me, you know, by God's you know, I don't know, Maybe that's good. Maybe it is.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not wrong.
Speaker 2:I guess not. I mean, it's probably good that I do it. I don't think God cares Like our kids. We wouldn't want them to be always going. Well, you make sure you bring me into that.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe we should do that. We should actually. Our producer has left. He's not even paying attention.
Speaker 2:Some producing you're doing.
Speaker 1:He's down there typing. He's buying something.
Speaker 3:He's got his credit card out what you buying.
Speaker 2:A shelf for the studio oh.
Speaker 1:So that's Jonathan's credit card oh, use it sweet. Can I use it next? Oh you better. Well, I didn't, because it's not gonna go through if it was on her card.
Speaker 2:I know how much credit she has, um, so that that actually is funny because, um, I know that you and kate, like which you know, I I enjoy working with both of you, but you guys have sort of a funny relationship where you will buy stuff without the other, like you don't share every, you know, didn't you sort of go rogue with your tesla?
Speaker 3:what by the way, I bought a tesla that's a big road is that what you did?
Speaker 2:you say, by the way, or did you just bring it home?
Speaker 3:no, I I told her because it was uh, you know, with teslas, you order it online and then okay, three months later it shows up okay but, you can't just go buy a tesla?
Speaker 1:can you now I?
Speaker 3:think you probably can like um with their existing like if you go to the dealership oh, okay, they have like existing ones that they've traded in okay, you know like yeah um, so I know that you can do that, but um, they're about the same as like if you just ordered a brand new one.
Speaker 1:So do you love it?
Speaker 3:I do, yeah, it's, and I I got this back in like 2019, um, so it was like back then it was like a spaceship right you know, it was like completely different from way back to have a tesla, yeah well isn't.
Speaker 2:I could be wrong about this because I don't think we talked about this a ton, but is one of the results from. Do you have narcolepsy?
Speaker 3:oh yeah. Um, I have. Well, I don't think we talked about this a ton, but is one of the results from. Do you have narcolepsy? Oh yeah, I have. Well, I don't.
Speaker 1:Some people call it like chemo brain. Okay, you have that, babe, I do From you getting chemo.
Speaker 2:Proximity.
Speaker 3:I shedded, chemo you did, you shedded chemo, when in 2019, 2018, 2019, I had an office kind of in downtown area and I would kind of commute there and back, and I've noticed that, like quite often, I would get this like tunnel vision where it feels like I'm going to start passing out, yeah, and then, you know, I get anxiety and and then it just like feeds on itself and so I'm like, you know, like just white knuckling, you know, like hoping that I don't pass out. And so when I heard that tesla's had like an autonomous thing, I was like I want that, yeah, so I need that, and so that's really one.
Speaker 2:Of course you need one of the main reasons I need this.
Speaker 1:I need reasons, I need this, I need this Babe, I need this car.
Speaker 3:As soon as I got it, though, it was like this weird, like that went away Just knowing.
Speaker 1:Just knowing someone's paying attention.
Speaker 3:That I could throw it into just autopilot or even just like assisted driving.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Like helped me so much. Not worry about like okay if I pass out, you know I'm dead. You know Right, like helped me so much. Not worry about like okay if I pass out, you know I'm dead you know Right, so that was one of the reasons.
Speaker 1:So what did she say whenever you were like, hey babe, funny story.
Speaker 3:Well, we had, you know, we were in the middle of like this. You know, we had a really big thing blow up in our lives and so we were kind of struggling with that and fighting a lot, and this was kind of like my well, I'm just gonna do what I want yeah okay, you know, so yeah I bought the tesla and so after that, you know, I felt bad.
Speaker 3:I was like okay, do you want me to? I can, I can take it back, I can take it back, yeah. And she said no, don't you know, you don't need to had she driven at that point, she's probably like no, she was afraid for probably the first year that I had it. She didn't want to drive it because she was afraid of crashing it and, like you know, she was just like afraid of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah fast forward to now.
Speaker 3:She wanted one yeah, but then I was like you have to get one, it's so good. I.
Speaker 2:I have to say I like hers better.
Speaker 1:The white the.
Speaker 2:Tesla white is real nice. She's got the more balby kind of model, doesn't she? Yeah, it's the Y, she has the Y. I like hers a lot.
Speaker 1:So I just heard this the other day that if you are a permitted driver, the car, if you have a Tesla, it can be the adult in the room, like the adult in the car.
Speaker 2:Really, I wouldn't trust that. I don't know if this is true, but I oh, okay, so we don't even know if this is true. No, no, sadie was telling me.
Speaker 1:She's a friend who has a permit and she's able to drive because she has a Tesla.
Speaker 2:And so that counts, is like having an adult driver with you, Isn't that wild? Yeah Well, you and I have talked about cars a bit, because I love cars and I was. So I think I called you or texted you from Florida because I had rented one when I was down there and I was like, oh, I get it. Like I was kind of like the anti, like I was like I want an engine and once I let it drive for me, I was like I want an engine and once I let it drive for me.
Speaker 3:I was like I get it. I'm fossil fuels all the way. It's a way better driver.
Speaker 2:Like it's like. It took me about 15 seconds to get used to it.
Speaker 1:You know, what I can't get used to is that gas pedal. Like you, let off the gas pedal and it still rolls on an engine, but that's something you have to really get used to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in an electric For a while when Kate still had she had a Lexus before we got the Tesla I felt out of control because I would take your foot off the accelerator and you're still rolling as fast as you were, and in the Tesla you take it off, it feels like you're braking and so it's weird to kind of you feel kind of out of control.
Speaker 1:To. Going back and forth would be hard. Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so for a couple of years we, you know, we would just go back and forth with it and kind of get used to one and then feel, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when did she get hers? What year did she get hers, you know?
Speaker 3:2022,. I think.
Speaker 1:Okay, so she's had a couple of years.
Speaker 2:That's so funny. Yeah, man, I'm, I'm all in with those, but you know that you talking about like, just knowing that it's there. I had that. I think I've talked about that this on this podcast before, but I don't couple of episodes of of suicidal thoughts.
Speaker 2:Now, I had kids at the time, so I I knew that I wouldn't do it, but it was so alarming to me that I was having the thoughts like I was like something is wrong and uh, the first time I kind of muscled my way through it. And the second time I I was under a good doctor's care and I went to her and I said, look, something is. And so she gave me this drug that they give to people. She's like look, you know, these are here for this, you know, and she is interesting. She had a notepad and we had been going through the flood stuff which we talked about on this podcast before we, you know, we had mold in our house and we a lot of stuff was. And she she's like, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write out some things I want you to do.
Speaker 2:She took a prescription pad out and she wrote the first was you're not getting enough nature. I want you to be out in nature more. Second, you got to be walking. You're not exercising enough nature. I want you to be out in nature more. Second, you got to be walking. You're not exercising enough.
Speaker 1:Third was work with your hands make something.
Speaker 2:She goes you're an artist, but you're not making anything.
Speaker 2:She goes at the time, you weren't doing anything, you were just she goes I don't care if you take, you know, change the oil in your Jeep, whatever you do, got to complete something. And then the fourth was go get these pills. Um, and actually I did, I did all of them and it did help. But just knowing that there was a like, I didn't really have to take the pills, just knowing that there was a pill, they're like okay, if I get this low, you know it was. It kind of was like no highs, no lows, it it just. But just knowing that, just bows. That's what our sound guys used to say no highs, no lows, just bows. Um, but yeah, just knowing that there was something, I was like okay, I actually I don't think I have them anymore, but I you know they're there if you need them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had a friend who, um, he was a singer but he had a stuttering issue and in his in-ears he would sing the song and it would just be in his in-ears, but it was enough for him to sing with that to stop the stuttering when he was singing.
Speaker 1:So it was like he was listening to the track in his ears.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like listening to the song with his voice on it.
Speaker 3:The song and he would listen to it and he would sing along with it and that helped with the stuttering. I thought that was really cool and that's another like it gets rid of that mental block or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:It's interesting.
Speaker 1:Man, I almost feel like this's a lot of hoops to have to jump through in order to do the thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like maybe singing isn't the thing for you.
Speaker 3:I don't know, but it was working. It was working for him and I couldn't tell that he had an issue. Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 1:That would be such a tough one, stuttering.
Speaker 2:Yeah, becauseuttering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because it's so I mean.
Speaker 2:Well, Jason Gray has that, but it's not when he's singing. Like the only time he doesn't stutter is when he's singing.
Speaker 1:Well, I wonder if yeah.
Speaker 3:There's yeah, my grandmother had Alzheimer's, and what they say is like have. And what they say is like have them listen to music when they were in the prime of their life and then have a conversation with them after.
Speaker 1:And it's this weird like switch.
Speaker 3:That happens Because the way that you store, I guess, music is different from the way you store words and language, and so it's kind of like a back way into I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting Recalling.
Speaker 3:Did it work? Did you notice?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did she get it? What did they call the prime of her life? What did they say?
Speaker 3:Well, I went with her, and this was kind of early on when she was first diagnosed.
Speaker 3:I went with her and this was kind of early on, like when she was first diagnosed, but I just was like what's, what's some of the music that you like to listen to? And of course they were all just like hymns, you know from the forties, you know like, but, um, I just made a playlist of stuff that she was like, yeah, I like this and I like that and have you ever seen that video of the woman who was a ballerina and she had alzheimer's and they started playing swan lake and she started doing the choreography?
Speaker 1:have you seen this video? No it's amazing, she's this little old woman and she starts doing the choreography.
Speaker 3:She, her brain just automatically remembered all the because it stores it in a different way than language which is interesting.
Speaker 1:Wild.
Speaker 2:Music is a huge part of your like. You like some people have a soundtrack for their life, but you actually have a because we did. You brought up music enough. We did a session one time where it was we just listened to a playlist of, and it was good music. It was really good music. But we so he and I went and parked and we just listened to a song and I said okay, and then we stopped and said, tell me, Give me the times.
Speaker 1:Oh, like what was going on. Yeah, oh fun, and we just did that song after song and it was actually really fun. So did you go through good times and bad times?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Wow that was funny. I I mentioned doing that with Kate and Kate said it'd be a lot of Michelle branch, and then we talked a bit more and I realized it would be actually just Michelle.
Speaker 3:That's what she'll be listening to. She has Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hopefully that'll never happen, but you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like that would be her prime I guess?
Speaker 2:Well, that, and it is, Michelle Branch was great.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Man I loved some of her records Was your. Did your grandma get mean? No, it was your grandpa, my grandfather did yeah, when he got older.
Speaker 3:That's got to be weird, it is Was he. He was a chaplain at a jail in Sacramento and you know, like my whole life I had known him as this gracious, very charming, funny you know, just very nice guy, you know, and it's like man, if anyone was a saint I would say it was him. And then to go like when he started going downhill he kind of got vindictive and I hate that. That's like my last memories of him.
Speaker 3:We had a hard time with him and taking away the keys. It's like kind of here's your freedom and then we're gonna take it away from you. But he was just dangerous behind the wheel and um, he didn't want to admit that. And so you know, there was. I felt very manipulated, um, and you kind of I don't know like it kind of taints. You're like, was he just manipulating me like all these years? You?
Speaker 1:know. Yeah, you start questioning everything. Did he have Alzheimer's too?
Speaker 3:No, he just got old. He just got mean, he was just a grumpy old man.
Speaker 2:Well, I wonder too. Like you know, I've heard people say you know, when we get old we revert back to who we were as little kids. But I don't know that it that seems kind of reductive because you, as little kids, you don't, you don't have all these freedoms, like like you said, I mean he, he lived a life and then all this stuff was taken away.
Speaker 1:Plus, you're in pain a lot of times yeah, chronic pain. You're dealing with pain. You're dealing with a lot of sadness that you've probably never dealt with.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you're dealing with. Just like you said, your freedoms are taken away. You can't get around. It's just frustrating. I'm sure?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so too. I don't. I mean, you know, I've heard some of those people say they don't want to. They're like I don't want to get this way. You know I don't want to. That's hard. So do you think, and we probably Hutch. How long have we? We probably need to wrap it up here soon.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, but I do want to ask this Like and I'm not looking for a specific answer the answer might be no, but like pre-cancer and post-cancer, did you see God like way different after, or was it? Yeah, you did actually.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't know if it was way different, but like it's kind of like your faith is bolstered. Okay, so you know I had grown up in a Christian home rule follower like I'm, you know, didn't really go outside the lines Blend in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just kind of like and I went to you know, I was in when you are that age, you do have to make that decision to follow christ and and do that for yourself and not, you know, go to church because your parents go. But it was just kind of like I don't know um, whenever I got cancer it felt more of like personal like okay I got to know him yeah, right, yeah that makes sense it was less about the easy answers yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I probably, I think I probably came to know myself a little better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it's funny, I've used you and I know you won't care if I show this, so I'm not going to, but no, no no, no, he, he won't care. But you know, we've talked before about, like you wanting certain clothes in your high school or whatever, and some people want and this probably a whole other podcast episode but some people want like new clothes or certain stuff so that they'll stand out, and some people want it so that they can blend in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and yours was like I was the blend in, I just did not want to be noticed.
Speaker 2:Which I remember you telling me that and me going really Because you're such an artist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was. You know I had grown up my I had embarrassing parents. You know, up my I had embarrassing parents, you know like, and there was just always something in me that was like fight against that as much as I can, and so I wanted to distance myself and you know like of the embarrassing things and just kind of like blend in you know like I didn't want to stick out for being cool, or stick out for being dorky, you know like.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to go through school unnoticed Just disappear.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did you? Yeah, I did yeah. I mean, I was kind of nerdy, I was one of the nerdiest kids and I had. You know, there was one guy in school like I had been in private school all the way up until like fourth grade and then we had to go to public school, and so it's like all these people who had known each other since kindergarten. And then I'm coming into this new situation I'm dressed like a homeschooler and you know what is that really? Oh, man, man, I had the coke bottle glasses. I had hair like slicked.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, you know, and I was skinny, I was ultra skinny just like an old man, worse than that. Like I had, like I would wear like button-up, uh, you know, like golf t-shirts and um pants with with cowboy boots it was just like.
Speaker 1:You were just in your own world, yeah, you just didn't care. You threw clothes on, or.
Speaker 3:I just I don't know I've. I've discovered that now with Gray who wants to dress himself and I'm like you're going to wear that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I want to let him express himself the way that I did. Um, but anyways, when I I kind of hit the reality of like other kids like looking at me, like what like, and I think that it was that experience of like going from zero to a hundred like real fast in that fourth grade period that I was like, okay, I'm not going to stand out anymore, I'm going to try to be whatever is cool, I'm going to be in that.
Speaker 2:Well, that's kind of a loss of innocence. Going into fourth grade thinking okay, here I am, I'm bringing all of me. And then the kids are like ew.
Speaker 3:What's wrong with this guy? Yeah, the guy with cerebral palsy asked me if I wanted to fight him and I was like you know, Wait, what he thinks he can take me.
Speaker 1:I'm wearing hammer pants, do you not understand, I can take you.
Speaker 2:This is the best day of this kid's life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's like oh, dude. He's like I'm not. You know, I'm cooler than you. I could take this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't control my arm movements, but I know that I could beat you up.
Speaker 1:What in the world?
Speaker 2:Why did he?
Speaker 1:just was like, hey, can we fight. What was the deal?
Speaker 3:I don't know if he saw his opportunity. He was just like I'm Look.
Speaker 1:I really need to win. Can we please fight, did you?
Speaker 2:No of course not. Did you ever?
Speaker 3:fight. No, that was my thing.
Speaker 1:You got to stay in the middle and never fight.
Speaker 3:I was like, honestly, that was my goal, basically from fourth grade until I was a senior. It was like don't get beat up this year, don't get beat up.
Speaker 2:Man, what a double bind. Yes, because if you fight this kid and win, then you beat up the cerebral palsy kid yeah, you fight this kid and lose, then you got beat up by the cerebral palsy kid. What an awful place to be. It's an impossible question.
Speaker 1:You needed somebody else to fight, Somebody that you could have beat up and been like okay, I'm not going to be treated as mean for beating this kid up.
Speaker 3:I was terrified of fighting, though Right. I was like this scrawny kid yeah, I didn't want to fight either.
Speaker 1:Did you ever fight?
Speaker 2:No, no, way Too scary. That's way too vulnerable, I think maybe I had a kid or two that wanted to fight there's just a 50 50 chance.
Speaker 1:I was like, why would we do that?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's talk it out oh my goodness call me on the phone. Yeah, all right, it's great to have you just in case somebody wants to send you a comment or something is your? Is there a? Do you have a web butcher, instagram or?
Speaker 3:what just at fourth crown is spelled f-o-u-r-t-h fourth crown c-r-o-w-n. Um at fourth crown and then fourth crowncom yeah it's just it's just it's just a website with, like some of my work on there, but but you can direct message me.
Speaker 2:They might want to Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me and Kate is Milk Couture.
Speaker 3:Yeah MilkCouturecom.
Speaker 2:Check that stuff out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy. I mean whatever you have in your. Her Instagram is great too.
Speaker 2:Whatever you have in mind whatever you're picturing when I say breast milk jewelry, you're not picturing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, think the. When I say breast milk jewelry, you're not picturing it. Yeah, think the Tiffany's of breast milk jewelry. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:I mean Jennifer, would I mean? I think the first thing people think is you know, she's making breast milk jewelry. I'm like yeah, no it's not her breast milk, first of all.
Speaker 1:Somebody actually asked you that they're like no, wait a minute, wait what I'm like. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:I am not currently lactating.
Speaker 1:Making jewelry out of it.
Speaker 2:If I was.
Speaker 1:That'd be something that would be something All right.
Speaker 2:Bye everybody, See you next week you.