The Gospel According to Jeromy
Welcome to "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast, where faith, humor, and heartfelt stories collide in a lively conversation about life, love, and everything in between. Join your host Jeromy Deibler, along with co-hosts Jennifer Deibler and Drew Powell, as they share the Dieblers journey from being the acclaimed Christian band FFH to their current path in spiritual direction.
In this engaging and candid podcast, Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew offer a unique blend of perspectives on spirituality, mental health, emotional well-being, and personal growth. Drawing from their extensive experiences on the road and life's ups and downs, they explore the joys and challenges of faith, all while sprinkling in some humor along the way.
Get ready for spirited debates, deep dives into controversial thoughts, and heartwarming memories as they invite you into their world of faith, questions, and spiritual exploration. Whether you're a longtime believer, a spiritual seeker, or simply someone looking for meaningful conversations, "The Gospel According to Jeromy" podcast has something for everyone.
Tune in to join the conversation, laugh, learn, and be inspired as Jeromy, Jennifer, and Drew navigate the twists and turns of life's spiritual journey. It's a podcast that's as diverse as their experiences and as authentic as their hearts. Subscribe today and embark on a captivating exploration of faith, laughter, and the adventure of the human spirit.
The Gospel According to Jeromy
Certainty and Idiocy
Purchase "The Daily Autumn" here!
Subscribe to "The Daily" on Substack
Ready for a rollercoaster ride of humor, heartfelt reflections, and heated debates? We kick off this episode with some amusing banter about our names and wardrobe choices, then dive into the excitement of my new book, "The Daily Autumn," and how you can snag a copy for yourself. Jennifer, Drew, and I laugh about our recent episode with Mike Weaver and Drew's unforgettable trip to Denver. We also get real about the outpouring of love Drew received after a tough personal loss and how it's been a spiritual compass for him going forward.
Ever wondered how stress brings out the quirkiest in people? From narcolepsy-like tendencies to the peculiar rules of solving crossword puzzles manually, we share some outrageous personal habits and the hilarity that ensues during worship misunderstandings. Our communication dynamics spark some laughs as we talk about the traits that show up in arguments and the Enneagram 9 tendency to shut down when overwhelmed. It's a mix of light-hearted anecdotes and deeper reflections on how we cope with life's challenges.
Hold onto your hats for the final segment, where we tackle some thought-provoking topics like the rapture, conspiracy theories, and Bible interpretation. We dig into the nuances of belief and skepticism, examining everything from the moon landing to Jeffrey Epstein's demise. Our conversation delves deep into God's knowledge, human suffering, and free will, sprinkled with personal stories and reflections. And if that wasn't enough, we tease some future plans like ranking people on an "idiot scale" and a possible house tour in Akron, Ohio. This episode is a whirlwind of humor, heated debates, and heartfelt discussions that you won't want to miss!
Hey everybody, welcome to the Gospel, according to Jeremy. Before I introduce my co-hosts for the week, drew suggested that I do this, so I am going to. I've been working on several book projects and one of those projects is a year-long daily meditations series called the Daily, and since it is the first week of autumn I think actually today, maybe first week of autumn I wanted to let you all know about it. It's called the Daily Autumn and you can get it on Amazoncom. If you go to Amazoncom and just search my name, it's Jeremy Deibler. And if you don't want to read the book, you want them to come in your daily emails. You can subscribe to me on Substack, and that is just go to Substack and then type in my name, jeremy, with an O.
Speaker 2:J-E-R-O-M-Y.
Speaker 1:Deibler with an E-I German spelling. So yeah, that's my advertisement.
Speaker 2:You say type in my name, as if your name's just simple.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:Just search my name. Do you guys deal with people calling you Deibler, your whole?
Speaker 2:life Always.
Speaker 1:Probably a little less now, but we did.
Speaker 2:Because no one talks about our name. But before people would talk about our name, yes, it was. Deebler all the time.
Speaker 1:That's Jennifer Dibler, my wife Drew Powell, back with us after one week off. He was in Denver. Yeah, I missed it.
Speaker 3:That was a great. I just finished that episode with Mike Weaver.
Speaker 1:Mike's great, great episode. It was really good.
Speaker 3:I really, I really liked it. It was like there was some good meaty content in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was like man, I got to up my game here. We just talk about nonsense. Yeah, If you missed last week.
Speaker 2:The nonsense is my favorite part. It was fun.
Speaker 1:Mike Weaver of big daddy weave.
Speaker 3:He seems like a guy you just want to hang out with. Yeah, he's great. Just a big, lovable guy yeah.
Speaker 1:Jennifer and I have known him for a really long time. Also, your audio was not very loud last week, so make sure that you're it was on the audio but not on the video. Okay, sorry about that. Is that for autumn, that shirt?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I love it I mean, it's actually a summery shirt. I kind of think it's kind of a yeah, it feels. Spring to summer for me Does it yeah, well, I feel like because it's green and I feel this gold feels autumn, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I wonder what this episode will be like, because I had a client this morning. You had a doctor's thing this morning, you had a client. This we're all wearing nicer clothes than we usually wear On the top.
Speaker 2:Are we?
Speaker 1:On the top. Sweats on the bottom right.
Speaker 2:Sweats, shorts and maybe somebody's in their underwear.
Speaker 1:I'm in my boxers. Somebody might be in their undies.
Speaker 3:The room was hot and so I walked in wearing pants and I'm currently in basketball shorts. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:You changed for the occasion.
Speaker 1:Stretchy pants. Gotta go stretchy pants. He changed for the occasion Stretchy pants.
Speaker 2:Gotta go. Stretchy pants I got sweats on because you guys are crazy.
Speaker 1:What it's freezing in here it's hot. In here it's hot. Y'all are nuts. I mean I might have to lose the outer shirt.
Speaker 2:You're literally, you don't have much more to lose. I mean, you're in your undies already.
Speaker 1:I am, I'm in my, but I'm a big boxers guy, I mean they're.
Speaker 3:You boxers under jeans too? Yeah, actually it's weird, I was.
Speaker 1:It's like wearing shorts under pants.
Speaker 2:It's so weird to me.
Speaker 1:Last year I was at the beach in California and I had forgotten my bathing suit and I realized my boxers are actually longer than most guys' bathing suits.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I just went. Well, when you walked out, I thought you were wearing shorts. Well, when you walked out, I thought you were wearing shorts, I didn't realize they were boxers Except they're white White cotton shorts With a slit in the front. You're very angelic, your whole being is white, it was glowing.
Speaker 1:It was annoying. So when Drew walked in, when Drew oh, and, by the way, those of us you probably didn't get these, but I got several texts and messages this week, Perfect For condolences for you, for your friend.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 1:I didn't print them out for you. But people, they, they want you to know that. Oh, that's really kind. Yeah, they're with you and I have a. One of my favorite clients is out in the Denver area and she said if Drew ends up coming out, he's got a place to stay.
Speaker 3:Oh, no way.
Speaker 1:And you, you love her.
Speaker 3:She's great, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm there once a month, so yeah. So thanks. You can send your comments to the podcast at uh, you can email or you can uh direct message any of us on Instagram or just uh Jeremy Dibler at iCloudcom.
Speaker 2:I've been so benign lately on my Instagram.
Speaker 3:I've been so benign lately on my Instagram you have You've lost your spark.
Speaker 2:I put something. Well, I was.
Speaker 3:Are you dialing back intentionally?
Speaker 2:Well, last night I got a little more spicy, just a little bit. Just a little more spice.
Speaker 1:Recently.
Speaker 2:With the second assassination attempt I was like Drew and I were talking Actually.
Speaker 1:Third she's counting. There you are. He brought this before we get into the time. I do have a question and a topic today that I want to talk about. But um drew uh came in and we actually talked for a minute, believe it or not. Uh, because I wasn't ready when you got here, um, and he said can I ask your advice about something?
Speaker 3:I was trying to get some spiritual direction. I didn't realize it was going to be aired out on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Well, go ahead, fill her in.
Speaker 3:You want me to Well you can I mean you don't? Have to Well. So there's this really sweet couple that want to have like a dinner thing with Jamie and I regularly.
Speaker 2:Oh right.
Speaker 3:We're just not in a season where we can maintain that. But I don't know how to have that conversation without being like a jerk.
Speaker 1:Is that kind of like when you tried to quit this? You didn't quite know how to do it.
Speaker 3:And here you are. So the moral of the story five years from now, we're going to have dinner with these people.
Speaker 2:That's right, you'll be on your weekly dinner night date.
Speaker 3:no, that's different. That's the difference, because this is something I like doing and I want to do and I'm trying to.
Speaker 2:They wanting to do this, that's not maybe every other.
Speaker 3:No, probably once a month ish. Oh um, but it's just not our here's our thing. Life is so full and busy. If we were going to invest a once-a-month dinner, it would probably be with our current friends that we don't see enough, that we'd love to continue to. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's hard.
Speaker 3:There's really nothing wrong Like. These people are wonderful. They're sweet people. I wouldn't say we have tons in common, but we don't know them that well yet. Maybe we would down the road Right now. We don't. They're pretty quiet. Everyone in the group is quiet except for me, so I feel the pressure of carrying the conversation which feels like work.
Speaker 2:That's tough yeah.
Speaker 3:Because, I can't take dead air time Just sitting at dinner and everyone's eating the chips and salsa and nobody's.
Speaker 2:you can't just sit there. You've got to fill the space. That's hard whenever you have a full roster already.
Speaker 3:Life is very full.
Speaker 2:Well, and I just mean like, you have friends you already need to keep up with.
Speaker 3:That we don't see enough yeah.
Speaker 2:And so how do you add?
Speaker 1:How many friends can you maintain? How do?
Speaker 2:you add new people to that roster.
Speaker 3:So I have a theory on this Three five.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. I think the older you get, the more you realize you don't need. I don't need as many people in my life as what I used to think I needed. So it's like I got family, I've got a few good friends and that's enough. Like back in the church world, it was like everyone's your quote unquote friend. You walk into the room and everyone, hey, what you know. Same thing with you guys. Everyone knows you everywhere you go, so you feel surrounded. I don't feel like I need that anymore. A couple good friends.
Speaker 1:I also think that friendships take. They take shared experience and so if you're making a new friend, like you may go gosh, I really love hanging out with them. But then you actually got to put in the time, even if you really like them. But like old friends you've already put in the time, like you know, with Alison and Brian Smith. You know we might not see them for six months and then we pop down for an afternoon and swim in the pool and there's just so much past experience. But with new friends, how do you?
Speaker 2:I don't know New friends. That's tough.
Speaker 3:So do you have to break up with them now? Well, that was my question.
Speaker 1:That's what you were supposed to help me with, well, and not bring up to the. He said I don't know random people on the internet. Tell him what. Tell him your answer to me.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I just said I lie, you know if I mean that's a great spiritual direction, I mean if they're like hey, can you do it this month?
Speaker 1:I'd, I mean, I'd be like well, we got other stuff going on, well that's not a lie, that's what we do right.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I mean I can't believe. You just said that. I think I can't believe you just admitted that.
Speaker 1:Why Everybody does it.
Speaker 3:Well, that's what you did to me when I asked you to help me lead worship at church.
Speaker 1:We didn't lie.
Speaker 2:We didn't lie, we didn't lie.
Speaker 1:You came missing church. We didn't lie. We didn't lie. You gave us an hour. That's true, we were just. All I could tell is like I don't think they want to do this anymore.
Speaker 3:No, you didn't want us to. That's not true. Don't put it on me.
Speaker 2:You don't try to fight of me coming to your church because the day in your mega hat exactly you know everybody at this church.
Speaker 3:You, it's john mays, and you were scared. I was gonna be too mega for you. No, that's not true. Yes, it's true. Why don't you invite us again? I?
Speaker 2:think it was the day after the other assassination attempt when he actually got shot.
Speaker 3:I think that's what it was.
Speaker 2:I think it was the day after that and you were like we both were insecure.
Speaker 3:I was like they don't want to do this. I'm also like I've done. There's no outside of hanging with friends, like the only thing making it fun for me to do that is to do that with friends.
Speaker 1:If you here's the thing you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's not like I'm a super like I'm not super pumped on. Oh, I get to like I'm up this Sunday. I'm not like, oh, I can't wait for Sunday. I'm not like, oh, I can't wait for sunday. I'm like, no, if I can serve my church in this way, and it's like it's a need I can fill, but there's nothing in it for me outside of right.
Speaker 2:Oh, maybe the hang will be good with the people you know right I really wanted hutch well, that's the thing is, you wanted hutch and you settled for us because hutch was busy.
Speaker 3:So that's not, that's not real, that's not true. So true. That's what you tell yourself did not feel bad about bailing.
Speaker 2:I think you literally said that I think that we probably have that text thread well, let's just, let's no, we don't leave it, we don't need it because you know it's true, you wanted hutch and you were like, oh, hutch is busy, well, I guess you guys could come I think with the friend thing you have, if you have some old friends or close friends, you're able to go.
Speaker 1:Hey, I just don't have it in me tonight like, yeah, and totally we've done that. But with new friends, if you try to break up with, if you're like, hey, this is probably isn't going to happen, then now you've you've canceled it and that's going to be like, oh gosh, you know that's they might be offended. If you go and you don't like it and you're carrying the conversation, then you're just going to be like, why did it? So you almost have to just, but isn't?
Speaker 3:that kind of my codependency of carrying what people that I don't even know real well think about probably.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm just like what?
Speaker 3:even if they got pissed, what would it matter? Right, it's not like what do I but, but they are really. Did I cuss what I say? The p word?
Speaker 1:oh sorry, I'm just kidding somewhere my dad, my coldilocks over here got me au naturel today, um I just think. I just think there's almost a social like. Isn't there a social?
Speaker 3:I said scoldilocks, by the way, not goldilocks, I wasn't. It wasn't a hair reference. Wow, it was a scolding reference, sorry continue.
Speaker 1:I'm both so yeah, well, um, I don't know, I just feel like you we shut them down, you let them off the hook by going yeah, you know what it's, you know it's not gonna work tonight. Jamie's got a headache I think after about two or three of those they'll quit trying and that leaves you the option like eight, twelve months from now you run into them, you're like you know what.
Speaker 3:Let's give that another spin well, that was honestly going to be my approach, which, which is honest just being like, hey, it's a it's a really busy season for us right now and, to put another thing on the books and dinner.
Speaker 1:Thing.
Speaker 2:It feels a lot like a lot for us. You don't even have to lie, no, you can do that.
Speaker 1:I mean, look, I look, I probably wouldn't have the nerve. I don't know. I mean, here's the thing. She talks about me lying, but we have people in our life that, whether her or me, will need something and she'll be like hey, can you text them? I'm like, are you too scared to? She's like, yeah, for sure you do this.
Speaker 3:That's what happened with singing leading worship? What he was the one that texted me, not you.
Speaker 2:No, you literally texted and said you guys, I'm going to let you off the hook. That's what you said.
Speaker 1:Actually, what you said was do you want to just forget that? I asked and you want me to spring it on you on Saturday so that Jennifer doesn't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2:That's what it was.
Speaker 3:That's what it was. I asked too far in advance and it freaked her out.
Speaker 2:I was into it. Listen, you were scared. I was going to get into a conversation with people at your crazy liberal church.
Speaker 1:I love this, I love where this went.
Speaker 2:Well, it's not wrong Well there's some Republicans there, I think, I don't know.
Speaker 3:Democrat church. Yeah Well, it's not wrong. You're right Well there's some Republicans there, I think.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I've never asked. I don't want you to get pigeonholed either. I don't want to eliminate listeners because they're like I can't listen to this anymore because Jennifer's-.
Speaker 2:Listen, it's the best of both worlds. We've got liberal church boy.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I've got conservative Instagram girl.
Speaker 2:What am?
Speaker 3:I. I can't even talk about you. I just love that I'm liberal church boy.
Speaker 2:You and your mullet.
Speaker 3:Oh, liberal church boy, I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm in a mood today.
Speaker 1:I can tell Something's off with you what's going on?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, you're probably not going to like the topic.
Speaker 3:When I was editing the podcast where we were talking about intimacy disorder, I wanted to do a whole cut of you when you weren't talking. It was hilarious. That's because she's fidgeting. She was not into that conversation at all. She was looking down fidgeting and then every once in a while would look up Because that one I had to cut manually. I was like this is hilarious. I've never seen anybody more tuned out to a conversation in my life.
Speaker 1:Man, that's awesome. You should try arguing with her.
Speaker 3:Because you know we talked about that. I just did about the music thing and I lost, and I'm pretty sure I was right, I know, but you should be glad though I know you were wrong.
Speaker 1:You should be glad that she stayed in it, because I don't do this anymore. But I used to have to follow her around the house and be like, hey, are we talking about this now? What's going on? And then she'd finally sit down on the couch or she'd sit like on the floor. And so now it's me standing over her talking and I could see in her eyes like, oh, she's gone, Like she's, it's now me just talking at her.
Speaker 2:And I, I stopped listening. I don't do it anymore. Somebody needs a break sometimes and he wouldn't give it to me. He's like, it's like a little chihuahua chasing me.
Speaker 1:I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 2:And I was like, oh, shut down. And I would literally shut down and curl in a ball and be like can't, I'm, I might, I was shut down.
Speaker 3:You would stop talking and everything. Yeah, I couldn't, or she would laugh.
Speaker 2:Well, I do that when I would get nervous. I laugh.
Speaker 1:She'd laugh at me and I'd be like, makes you more mad, I'm mad. What about? This is funny?
Speaker 3:She'd be like I don't know. You just make me laugh. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I think I had a doctor tell me once that I possibly have like narcolepsy. So when I get in a stressful situation I just almost fall asleep. I would do that too, Like I'd just be, like I can't keep my eyes open.
Speaker 1:That actually is an Enneagram 9 trait. Like they, if there's too much stimulation they could be sitting in the corner of a restaurant, and if they're overstimulated they might just go to sleep. Don't tell me in the car they go to sleep, and I don't think you're a nine, but that is a that's.
Speaker 3:That's definitely Jamie. She doesn't go to sleep, but like if she's doing something and it's stressful for her overwhelm, she can block out the whole rest of the world. Yeah, and I'll be like I just was talking to you for a minute and a half and she's like well, I didn't hear a word you said like she can just go to another place.
Speaker 1:She you can do that too, like we've been. We've been watching TV and I will sometimes do crossword puzzles and she'll play solitaire. So she's playing solitaire and watching TV. And there are times where I'll go, hey, uh, when do you think the kids are coming home? And it'll just be silent. Yeah, and then sometimes I'll go good talk, but or then I'll just, or I'll just won't say anything. I mean, I just feel like, okay, well, she's, she, she's not in a place to even have just a small conversation, yeah, but if she wants me to talk and I say, okay, so I don't want to talk about this, I think we did we yeah.
Speaker 3:We already litigated this already Today, you know when Do you crossword puzzles manually, by the way, not digitally Manually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they got the answers in the back.
Speaker 3:if you need it, yeah he doesn't look at them, though he uses a pen.
Speaker 1:Like a psychopath. I use a pen, but I write my letters kind of in one corner, so if there's room I can cross it out and um. So I have some crossword puzzle rules. One is I I can't cheat. However, if someone in the room might know the answer, that counts.
Speaker 3:So I might ask these guys, but I can't look it up no you can ask me, but I'm not allowed to look it up so I'm in a crosswords right now, big time, but it's on, it's my phone. Yeah, I've not gotten into that.
Speaker 1:Crosswords for me right now is so that I don't be on the phone. Yeah, I get it. I mean we're still watching tv or something, but they at night. I will do crosswords and wake up with the book slap in my forehead.
Speaker 3:Be like bam oh.
Speaker 1:OK, I need to go to sleep.
Speaker 3:It's better than the phone. Yeah, I've never had the forehead in my head. I have Sucks. Oh, yes, you have.
Speaker 1:I like we, at night, you know she'll most of the time she reads, but sometimes she'll look at Instagram and I love to fall asleep watching her Instagram reels. She's just got a great algorithm going right now. I bet you do. No, it's awesome. I'm like I don't get any of these yeah, they're good, they're good.
Speaker 1:But so for this season of the Gospel, according to Jeremy, when we don't have a guest on, I'm bringing a question in to the room. Oh geez, louise and I asked Jennifer last night. I said, do you want the question before tomorrow? And she's like I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't even see, didn't even remember you asking that you were in the bathtub. I didn't even hear it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I was in the shower. She was in the bathtub.
Speaker 2:Didn't even hear you Watching my phone.
Speaker 3:In the bathtub.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you drop it, it's waterproof, dunzo.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's waterproof, you're right.
Speaker 2:The new ones, I mean.
Speaker 3:She's careful.
Speaker 2:Listen, I get cold and I can't get warm.
Speaker 1:I got cold yesterday. Yeah, we're getting into bath season.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's autumn, Jamie. I've never seen anything like it.
Speaker 1:We could be at something every night there's a bath she never misses it's wild. I gotta get warm. Well, in the summer she won't, but now we're in. Now we're in. Uh, I love the texts that I get when she's in the bathtub she'll text me at like 5 45 and she'll just be like so, dot, dot, dot, dot dot dinner and I'll be like is this the first time you're considering it.
Speaker 2:That's our early bath it's not like bedtime bath, it's like no late afternoon it's usually around five o'clock because I for some reason I get cold around four o'clock in the afternoon. Interesting to where I'm like can't handle it well, she also has.
Speaker 1:So I've noticed this about her she doesn't. Daylight is great, she doesn't mind the dark, but when the sun is going down, she gets sad yeah, yeah, I do.
Speaker 2:I don't know what it is. I get depressed at sunset, I don't know. Always have.
Speaker 1:I was going to say sundowners, but that's not what that is. No, what is sundowners?
Speaker 2:Sundowners is when you have dementia or something.
Speaker 1:Well, you have that too.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And then whenever that, whenever, yeah, they last like until like sundown, and then they sundowners and then it kicks in. So last week the question or two weeks ago, sorry, the question that I brought in was you know what, what did you learn about life? That was sad for you, and I actually had a couple of people comment. Somebody commented and said I learned that people don't really want to hear about my problems. It's better for me just to keep them to myself. And we talked about that is that there's some truth to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, depending on who you're with. That's why counseling is so great. I remember being in counseling. Being like this is awesome. You have to listen to my problems.
Speaker 3:Pay someone to care yeah.
Speaker 2:Pay someone to care, because that's about the only way.
Speaker 1:I forgot to say this at the beginning. I've got three clients that are coming off, so if you'd like to be a client, I've got room for three, right?
Speaker 3:now. So please Can I mention something too that I don't think you've ever said here before, because you won't. I forgot that a big way that you do your spiritual direction is you offer it to people who can't afford it. Yes, but you have people who? Who gives your non-profit right?
Speaker 2:am I saying this right?
Speaker 3:totally that's. That's a big deal. I think we should talk about that more because I think there's people listening that could give, so that you can offer spiritual direction to people that can't afford it, because that's a huge part of counseling and spiritual direction A lot of people that really need it. They just can't afford it. So you're basically doing pro bono work for these people. Yes, but people give to your nonprofit, which is tax deductible.
Speaker 1:Right, no work for these people. Yes, but people give to your non-profit, which is tax deductible, right? So when we moved here, jennifer set up a non-profit for us so that I wouldn't have to say no to anybody based on money, and I still try to do that I think that's a beautiful model, because I think there's people out there that can give to, and I love that, knowing that when you're giving to this, that you can know the person it's helping.
Speaker 3:If you want to Like, I know you've got people where it's like hey, I've got a person, this is their story, this is what they need. Do you want to give to this? You're like yeah, I'll give to that.
Speaker 2:Right, am I saying this right? Yes, but I'm just picturing. I'm just enlightened to this whole. I'm just picturing, sending out like a world vision picture, oh yeah, like a compassionate international child. Here's Drew.
Speaker 3:He's got intimacy disorder issues. You could sponsor him for however much a month, that's what I'm picturing.
Speaker 1:You know what I should do? That actually I should connect to people that sponsor Because I do like I have one couple. You know they really like to support single moms. So if I have a single mom, I would maybe call them and go, hey, so-and-so needs help and and so maybe that's a good idea, maybe I should be that should be part of the scholarship.
Speaker 3:I love this model, cause someone could even give, just you know, a hundred bucks a month, whatever it is Right and know, that it's helping people get. Yeah, that's huge. Well, thank you, drew.
Speaker 1:We're going gonna talk about that more I, uh, I'm learning how to talk about that. I you know, we've been told that the christmas party is the best way to go.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, and we just fundraiser and we don't know how to do that.
Speaker 3:Oh, one of those deals all right.
Speaker 1:So the uh, the question for this week, um, it has to do with certainty, and here's why I'm bringing this up. I've been using this a lot with clients because most of my clients have some kind of spiritual background. It's not a prerequisite, but most of what I do is spiritual direction. So a lot of them come to me and they want to kind of just reimagine what God is like, and maybe a lot of them are in transition. I'm walking two or three people through transitions right now.
Speaker 1:But the phrase that I think is hard for people is the phrase of do you believe in the? And so sometimes they'll ask me because they'll want to go okay, who am I talking to here? They'll be like do you believe in hell? Do you believe in God? Do you believe in, you know? And I'll say to them well, look, god, do you believe in, you know? And I'll say to them well, look, I reserve believe in for the stuff that I am 100% certain of, or at least, like you know, somebody might say stuff. You know, there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that I think I have an opinion, but I can't say I'm 100% certain. So my question today for you guys, it's going to be based on what are you 100% certain of? And then we're going to go through the other stuff and we're going to kind of like we're going to put it on this little scale that I've got drawn on the butcher paper here, um, which you know what this table's starting to remind me of when you go to the doctor and you got to plop up onto that butcher paper.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean like yeah, yeah this. That's kind of what this looks like, um that's what's's starting to remind you of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just today.
Speaker 3:I went to the restaurants where you used to be able to color on.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, Macaroni grill.
Speaker 1:Oh definitely macaroni grill, so this will be fun. Yeah, so I will.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited about it.
Speaker 1:So, before we start, let us pray Before we start, I do think that our hearts one thing that we could kind of. We could kind of oh, what's happening? Let's go around, oh no, and each say one thing that we are 100 certain of, and I I think for the three of it'll probably be the same thing, but you can do gravity.
Speaker 2:I think it's going to be the same thing for all three of us.
Speaker 1:It might be.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:What's yours?
Speaker 2:I mean off the top of my head is my love for my kids.
Speaker 3:Okay, yes, that's the top of my head. Oh, so we're not going. It doesn't have to be spiritual. No, no, no, here it doesn't have to be spiritual.
Speaker 1:No, no, no here. Why don't you put that somewhere on the scale where you think he even had one printed out already? I don't know how you want to do it. Okay, so that's where you are.
Speaker 2:You want it like speedometer, like Is that okay? Sure.
Speaker 1:You're there. What about you Is that? I mean, I would guess I mean I'm with you, Like I can tell you with 100% certainty that I believe that I love my kids. Yeah, and when I say love, I mean that kind of the charity love where you would give you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you take a bullet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you give an arm, Like if one of them lost their arm and they were like Depends on the kid. I don't think kid can do that, but but what?
Speaker 2:if they could. I mean, you'd give a kidney if you could to keep them alive, right? Yeah, for sure. So you'd probably give them an arm, probably. I've never thought about it. I don't think they do arm donations, but probably soon it's coming.
Speaker 1:Probably you do arm they'd be better off with a mechanical one.
Speaker 2:But I'm just saying, I digress.
Speaker 1:So can you think of anything else? You're 100% certain.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, let's do like. Do you want to give us the choices you've printed out?
Speaker 1:Not yet, okay, Can you think of anything else that you believe in, like 100% certain, I mean, and you can go. You can go like gravity.
Speaker 3:What goes up must come down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gravity 100%.
Speaker 1:You believe a hundred percent in gravity.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I guess I just Gravity. I mean, are you 100% certain that if you jumped off the roof you would fall? Yeah, definitely, Okay, Anything else. There's tons of things like that Probably. I mean, like what Um?
Speaker 2:well, golly, yes, definitely Okay, Anything else? There's tons of things like that, probably. Yeah, I mean Like what? Well, golly, springing this on us. 100% sure that I'm cold, 100% sure.
Speaker 1:I almost feel like Jennifer needs a break. I don't think I've seen you on the podcast. This grumpy I am grumpy, aren't?
Speaker 2:I yeah, I'm really sorry. I don't know that I.
Speaker 3:Maybe you're discerning it more. I can't tell the difference between you're normal and you're grumpy. What's wrong with?
Speaker 2:me today.
Speaker 1:Yeah what Like did I do something? Let's work this out right now. No, I mean, I haven't seen you all day till right now, but I don't know wrong side.
Speaker 2:Just one of those days. One of those days it's that I'm telling you she can't. Oh, let me focus.
Speaker 1:If she fidgets, gosh and god forbid the dog be in her lap like I put the dog in her crate. Um, it's okay if you can't think of anything else you're certain of I mean, I can't certain.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't know, gravity. Sure, yeah, okay, sure, gravity. I'm overthinking it for sure. These are just examples. Yeah, I'm overthinking it now you guys are definitely overthinking it.
Speaker 1:We're talking about trying to, because here's what this exercise does okay. This exercise frees us from having to be 100% sure about everything, so we all believe we are 100% sure that we love our kids.
Speaker 2:That is like 100%.
Speaker 1:We know it, we believe it. All right, let's do this one the existence of God. Let's go, let's see percentage-wise how convinced you are of the existence of God.
Speaker 2:I would say that I'm pretty 100%.
Speaker 1:I'll put mine on there. I'll put mine on there yeah. I'm probably like I'm right there. I'm probably at I mean 95. Like, of course, I have my doubts, but I think that there is a God. I believe it. Put yours on there babe. Okay, where are you at?
Speaker 2:You're at 100. Well, I'm like, right, yeah, I'm in the 97. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Whoa, what are we going to do?
Speaker 2:Okay, put yours on there. Binky dinky, binky boo. That was the first, we said it at the same time.
Speaker 3:I thought it was jinx.
Speaker 1:But is it at the same level as I love my kids?
Speaker 2:like, beyond this, nothing could change it. That there is a god, yeah, that there is a god, I mean, I don't think anything could change it.
Speaker 3:I just I here's where my mind went. If I die and at the end of my life there's someone standing there, is like hey, guess what?
Speaker 2:sorry no god.
Speaker 1:Well, that's god then if somebody's standing there after you die. That's god. Well, I mean, what if it's just the?
Speaker 3:messenger that's telling you that there's no, god, who is that guy?
Speaker 2:he's no power, he's just a dude.
Speaker 1:This cosmic bad news guy by the way, you're dead, hey so here's what's happening.
Speaker 3:You're dead. There's no god. I think I'd be like damn, I was 97 sure there was, but there is a three percent, like skeptic I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, yeah, I knew it, there was. There is this whole time I knew it.
Speaker 1:There's a bad news cosmic guy right, let's do this one, so let's go.
Speaker 2:Love of kids is off the charts.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean we both were like that one is let's do Jesus. This is that Jesus was real.
Speaker 2:So now we're going away from that's 100%, but Jesus was historically real.
Speaker 1:But Jesus is God.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I believe that yeah okay, I'm right there with god I mean if god exists.
Speaker 1:Jesus is god okay, in the flesh I'm yeah same. Yeah, I'm probably in the 95. I mean that there.
Speaker 2:What if you were like yeah, I'm here yeah, well, no, I mean I'm what if you? What if you did that right now? Wouldn't that?
Speaker 1:be crazy. What would? What would you do if you did that right now? Wouldn't that be crazy? What would you do if I?
Speaker 2:did that? I don't know. I wouldn't be shocked. Honestly, you wouldn't Come on.
Speaker 3:If he was 50% on like salvation. Jesus being Messiah she'd be like yeah, I suspected it?
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I think you know I wouldn't be shocked.
Speaker 2:I never know what he's thinking.
Speaker 1:If your lifestyle is any indication I mean I'm I might be lower than you guys on it, just because I'm like see, but I'm in the above 95 that jesus is real and jesus is who he said. He was right, um, all right. So let's now. Now, I thought these were kind of predictable to me. I thought the three of us were probably somewhere on here.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Now I'd like to go. Why? Why are you certain about these things? Like is it? I mean it has to be either information, spiritual awareness or personal experience.
Speaker 2:Probably all of those. Is it Okay? What about?
Speaker 1:you, is it more one thing or personal experience? Probably all of those, is it Okay? What about you? Is it more one thing or the other?
Speaker 3:Sorry, I just put a bunch of ice in my mouth. I forgot we were recording Fear, fear, play some of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it scared you into believing those things are true Early in my life, yeah, okay, oh, yeah. So like family of origin kind of stuff, yeah, like you don't dare not believe that jesus is. Yeah, that's why I think about you. Know, people get fussy about people who are deconstructing and I go look if your personal experience with god like my, my personal experience with god the gospel, according to me is that it's that that has gone more to the 100%. Yeah, I believe more in Jesus.
Speaker 3:I was just thinking that In the past couple of years, I believe more than I ever did, with a fear-based mentality, out of just personal experience, because of your experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, this will be fun. Oh, this will be fun. Here's mood landing.
Speaker 2:Now we get into.
Speaker 1:Are you really there? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Put it on there, gosh, it's hard to put it at a percentage.
Speaker 1:But let's do so. You're for those of you who are listening. She's at like a what 30?, 30?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't Listen. Be honest.
Speaker 3:You can be honest. If you don't, okay, where are you at with?
Speaker 2:that I don't know if I'm just. Yeah, the technology, so Jennifer's at a 30%, so you are not convinced. No.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what would happen if somebody said do you believe in the moon landing? This is what I'm trying to get at Do you believe in the moon landing?
Speaker 2:I'd say skeptical. Do you believe in the moon landing? I'd say skeptical.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't you say that? Well, if we're using this context, if I'm 100% convinced, then you'd have to say no. No, I mean you're not Probably.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know, I don't know if I'm ready to say no. Well, right. But pretty much no.
Speaker 1:Pretty much no, and this comes from personal experience.
Speaker 2:No, no, just general untrust of the government. Okay, and also the technology we had at the time.
Speaker 3:Okay, I would go right at 50. 50-50. Just because I don't really, I'm just like, whatever I mean.
Speaker 2:You don't care. No, I don't really care. I kind of don't care either.
Speaker 3:If someone's like it happened, I'd be like, oh okay. If someone's like it didn't happen, I'd be like, oh okay.
Speaker 2:I'm with you.
Speaker 1:Okay, but guys, I'm pretty much there. Why language matters? Because you say I don't really care, and she goes I don't really care. She's probably listened to four hours worth of podcasts about it, have you? So there's a difference between caring. I didn't know those existed. Yeah, so you didn't even know they existed listen, it was a joe rogan calm down, I know, but you made me listen to it.
Speaker 3:I really am interested, though, like I love that stuff it's not like I can get into it, that stuff.
Speaker 2:It's like the most popular podcast in the world.
Speaker 1:No, look, but I'm just saying the language is you say you don't really care, but you care to give some time to it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I don't really care about it, but I think it's interesting the amount of I don't know, it's just a conspirator. I'm conspiratorial.
Speaker 1:So this isn't really about the moon landing. This is more about. Could you be convinced that we went to the moon?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 3:But you have a general like you kind of have a general skepticism that nothing is at face value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like there's a lot like I mean when it comes to government, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:When I like that stuff too and I'm pretty like I like this about me and also it's got a weakness, but I'm pretty like I can swing, like a compelling argument can convince me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like I don't get super like. If so, I could watch a documentary on the moon landing and call you and be like hey, guess what? It's not real.
Speaker 2:Okay, same.
Speaker 3:And I can go from 50 to 100 real quick. And then in the next breath someone else could call me and be like hey, found out some information about this moon landing thing. It's definitely real, whatever the opposite is, and I'm like, oh, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is real Same.
Speaker 3:I can like the pendulum swings so drastically for me.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:So you could make a compelling argument to you and it might change Probably will. Maybe we shouldn't. What I'm trying to get at here is we need new language for belief, because you could not make a compelling argument to me about loving my kids and convince me that I don't love my kids. I'd be like you can talk all you want and probably same same for probably same for the existence of God, and people have made compelling arguments that Jesus and I'm like. Nah, my personal experience of God trumps all of that Right.
Speaker 3:And what's crazy is that belief is not reality. Like cause, I was that way about. Things that I've recently discovered were BS.
Speaker 1:Really that?
Speaker 3:you could not have convinced me otherwise on Like what. Well, I think just things about my faith and spirituality and even about myself. Like if you would have told me three years ago that I had like anxiety to the level that I do, I would have argued with you. I do not have anxiety, but maybe. But there was an enlightening, there was a whatever that was like oh wow, you know. So my belief on that scale was was in the 90s.
Speaker 1:I just didn't have all the information yet, so the atheist listening to this might go okay, jeremy, you're 50, but you don't. You haven't gotten all the information, and and I would go well, I've lived 50 years and my understanding of God has only deepened.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? So it's all. So. This is why personal experience is so important. Go ahead, moon landing it. You know, I'm probably in the 65% range of moon landing. I think we probably went. But there are some compelling arguments that you know. Just knowing how far away the moon is from like yeah, I, I don't know. Um, here's, here's a fun one. This is did jeffrey epstein commit suicide? Oh, I like this one, so, so okay. So you're at now, you're at unbelief absolutely jennifer wrote j.
Speaker 1:Jennifer put her card at zero.
Speaker 2:He did not commit suicide.
Speaker 1:For those of you who don't know, jeffrey Epstein was the guy that had the Island and the sex trafficker and he went to jail and evidently killed himself in jail and Jennifer's. She's at unbelief. She's a negative five which means that no one could make a compelling argument to you.
Speaker 3:You might be a five.
Speaker 2:Okay, sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, you'd have to talk to somebody who watched him hang himself.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, I would need firsthand and I would need that person's background.
Speaker 3:You'd have to see a video of it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I would need not just firsthand account, I would need to know, I would need a video of the person, of him hanging himself.
Speaker 1:So if I said do you believe in the Epstein suicide? You?
Speaker 2:would say no, absolutely not, and that language would work. Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:Okay, where are you?
Speaker 3:I'm like this is a fun one. I'm probably down here too.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm in like the tent, like, but this is one where I could swing drastically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but this is one where I could swing drastically. Why, like, if we were, what would? Why, I don't know.
Speaker 3:The video or something Like. I would be like okay, Well, sure.
Speaker 2:I mean if I had a video which doesn't exist, because none of the videos worked that day Right Exactly None of the videos. All the security cameras didn't work that day, Isn't that interesting.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So you would say, you're, you're, you're pretty convinced he didn't kill himself yeah, if someone was like oh, he definitely hung himself, whatever, I'd be like come on, man, we all know, come on. Yeah, you know, I'm with you I'm like same.
Speaker 1:I'm down there in the below 25 range. I you know, I feel like it's like man. This stuff doesn't add up.
Speaker 3:By the way, did you see where P Diddy just went down? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good distraction, all right.
Speaker 3:He got arrested. Oh, he finally did get arrested.
Speaker 1:Man, well, that was coming. I mean Diddy man. It is a bad day to be a Diddy friend, because you know who they're looking for. Next Everybody on that list.
Speaker 3:uh, okay, here's did he, did he better we're gonna do protect himself, he's gonna be on epstein, we're gonna do the.
Speaker 1:I knew this one was coming we're gonna do.
Speaker 2:The whole conversation was leading to this one, epstein, and then we'll do this one.
Speaker 1:We'll do this one next, the, the jfk one shooter, uh, the. Are you down there with the one shooter? Absolutely. I'm not talking about it being a government conspiracy. I'm talking about being what we lee harvey oswald shot from the. Okay, jennifer went down to all near zero I'm there with epstein okay, so there's a near zero chance for you i'm'm at five. Okay.
Speaker 2:You're at five.
Speaker 1:Where are you at?
Speaker 3:I'm at the same place as the moon landing.
Speaker 1:You're 50-50.
Speaker 3:Really, I don't know enough about it. Like you could spend five minutes and convince me and I could be at zero with you. I promise you Really. Oh, two facts.
Speaker 1:If you give me one or two facts right now, I'm going will go down the thing. So for you facts win arguments, because that's actually uncommon. They will say that facts usually don't win arguments for someone who really feels strongly about something he doesn't feel strongly.
Speaker 2:That's the thing.
Speaker 3:He doesn't care, okay no, but I think I think that would be true for me, though. Like, if you give me the facts, I just it's kind of like what you said, though, like, specifically in politics, it's like both sides are quoting facts right both sides are debunking the fact.
Speaker 3:So I'm like I don't know who to listen to on anything, because every everyone's lying, everyone's wrong. There's a yeah, so it's like I don't know. So it's like yeah, if I knew that was a fact, but that's that's the whole point we're talking about. Like we don't have all the facts.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:I want to hear your take on JFK. No, you've got to talk.
Speaker 1:This is an audio podcast. All I did was I don't know. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:Oh well, I just don't believe. There are a whole lot of facts backing it up.
Speaker 1:Okay, gotcha JFK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just don't think there are a lot of facts.
Speaker 3:He got shot by someone else.
Speaker 2:He got shot by several people. I don't know about several, but more than one.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm probably somewhere wherever Jennifer is for the moon landing. I'm probably a 35%. What's weird is I've actually watched information on that what we've been told is actually true, and then watched a lot of stuff where what we've been told isn't true, and then watched a lot of stuff. What we've been told isn't true. It's all just information, you know right I have no personal experience with it, so weren't there tons of people there though? Yep yeah, but how do you cover that up?
Speaker 2:I don't know it's easy to change people's minds, like now. We have phones and everyone would have been recording on their phone. But then they had one guy who was filming. It was a Pruder film, and so it's easy to. The guy? What was his name?
Speaker 3:Abraham's the Pruder he was filming.
Speaker 2:He was on his little.
Speaker 1:What did you call it? The only film you've ever seen of it. That's his, that's his. That's the Pruder film.
Speaker 2:So there was one film. It's easy to go back and convince people that were there whenever there's no, they can't. They're like oh yeah, maybe you're right. Like I can't remember it's easy to twist people's brains.
Speaker 1:Well, what about? Okay? So what about? What about space? So, what about space? I don't have this one on the card, but like, because with the moon landing we really only have these couple of people that evidently went, and then we have some of that old. But you believe in, or are you convinced that there's space like outer space?
Speaker 2:I guess yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, just because enough people have gone to go. Look, I was there, you know, I bounced around and I'm back and yeah, I mean, I believe there is outer space. Right, okay.
Speaker 2:I guess, no some people don't. I just don't care about it.
Speaker 1:Some people believe that.
Speaker 2:I really don't care about outer space. I mean, like you look at the pictures of the stars and stuff and I'm like, yeah, I don't care All right, well, let's do this one, then let's do this one.
Speaker 1:I can't even read it Earth is round.
Speaker 2:Oh, I just don't care.
Speaker 1:I know, but you may not care.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm 75.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, You're 75% convinced that the Earth is round.
Speaker 2:So 25% of you thinks it's flat. I just don't know enough. I don't know anything about it?
Speaker 1:Do you think that's high or low?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't believe there's that much doubt.
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, maybe there's not, I just don't care about it.
Speaker 1:But if I say do you believe the Earth is a sphere?
Speaker 2:I would say yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay so.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:I believe that I mean I just I just like up here with I just don't care, so I'm going there where are you sure I'm up here.
Speaker 2:I'm up here, okay, yeah, I just you have to be after that shaming gosh you want him to shame you like that in front of everybody no, no, I'm just surprised by that.
Speaker 3:Oh, come on you, idiot. It was flip the table. I'm out of here.
Speaker 1:You, you're a moron. I want a divorce, well.
Speaker 2:I don't want a divorce.
Speaker 3:You're so stupid he said well, I don't want a divorce. Like that was serious.
Speaker 2:I mean to me that one is like I hate you now, but I don't want a divorce.
Speaker 1:She is more convinced that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered than she is that the earth is a sphere Wait what are you talking?
Speaker 2:Jeffrey Epstein is down here like 2%.
Speaker 1:Right, you're more convinced that he was killed, that he didn't commit suicide, than you are that the earth is round.
Speaker 2:How am I more convinced? I'm confused.
Speaker 1:You're more convinced that Jeffrey Epstein was killed.
Speaker 2:I feel like if you're saying that, then I would have to be here.
Speaker 3:No, he just means that would be at 100%.
Speaker 1:You're almost 100% sure that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered.
Speaker 2:I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Right, but you're not 100% sure. But you're not that. This is why this is important.
Speaker 3:Because we say do you believe in this is the thing, but you know the thing that she?
Speaker 1:brought up is, I think is important, and I said it too. The care factor yeah, I just don't care. When people don't care, all of a sudden the belief is like, well, it doesn't matter. Oh gosh, I know, but so you care more about whether jeff, jeff, absolutely yes, I care way more so I care way more about that disagree.
Speaker 2:I care more about the truth about Jeffrey Epstein than I do about the earth being round. I don't care if the earth is round, I couldn't care less.
Speaker 1:I know, but you taught our kids K through 12. And I bet you I don't think you've ever mentioned Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2:Because I don't talk about these things with my children?
Speaker 1:Okay, look, I'm not here to talk you out of it. Look, I respect these things with my children. Okay, look, I'm not here to talk you out of it.
Speaker 2:I look, I respect I didn't teach them anything about the earth being round. It was. I mean I did, probably it was just in the books and we taught it and I don't care okay that way, and the globe is round.
Speaker 3:So I mean I just didn't care about it, and I just you know the whole thing you spin, you have the bumps on it, the globe. That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:Like we had a globe um, so I guess, sure, I mean okay would this make you feel better?
Speaker 2:Because I just don't care about it? No, I don't want to feel better.
Speaker 1:I just want Gosh.
Speaker 2:I don't want to feel better.
Speaker 1:We have some friends that think the earth is flat.
Speaker 2:I have a friend that thinks that.
Speaker 1:I respect that. That's fine.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying so out of respect. I'm just it's like sure she thinks that I don't care.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I don't care.
Speaker 1:Let's do.
Speaker 3:Wait a minute.
Speaker 2:Do you care?
Speaker 1:about the earth being round.
Speaker 3:Can we establish that? I don't know how else to tell you.
Speaker 1:She doesn't care. So do you think that on this scale here, would you say that the things in the middle are the things that we don't care about?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that might be a good point, like I don't know is belief reserved for just the stuff we care about or the things that are well, maybe the things that are on the ends we care more about than the things. That's what I'm saying, yeah possibly way with the stuff that we're like it.
Speaker 1:I don't know okay, all right, let's do this one. Then let's do global flood and the reason's do global flood.
Speaker 1:And the reason I said global flood is there is all kinds of archaeological evidence that there was a flood sometime in the Middle East, and not just the Christian story or the Hebrew story, the Babylonian story. But do you guys believe in the flood Like the Bible flood, and then Noah takes two animals and like and when I say, believe in it, here's the good thing. You don't have to say yes or no. You can put it on a scale Okay, You're up there around, so 80, 90.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, well wait, where was I? What does this say?
Speaker 1:Earth is round, okay, well, well, I mean because you had it up there. And so the fact that the earth is global flood, she had above that the earth is a globe.
Speaker 2:so I just don't know, but I, yes, I believe that and yeah, I have no problem believing that.
Speaker 1:But a compelling argument could totally you could go.
Speaker 2:I'm open to yeah, but I'm pretty much a literal. I'm pretty literal because I feel like if that's why god wanted to do it, he could totally handle it. And there's been some weird um, what's the word? Evidence of a flood that happened here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. You know, so you are Global, so I guess you know where up here does belief start? Because I think if you're 75, 80% of something someone says, do you believe in it. And I'd be like, well, if I can be convinced not of it, do I really believe in it?
Speaker 2:Like I think so not of it.
Speaker 1:Do I really believe in it? Like I think so, but churches have this on their website, that, that is, they hold to a you know whatever global flood and do they really? Yeah, some of them. Uh, what about you drew? Are you where are you at with it?
Speaker 2:do you want to get a church at another? Do you want to job at a church again sometime?
Speaker 3:because I'm good, I 100 believe that I do not want a job at a church.
Speaker 1:Wow, I'm probably at the 50% mark. I think it's possible, but I also think you know floodwaters covering Mount Everest. I don't know, I just don't know, and so I am so 50-50 on that. I'm where you are with the moon landing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you don't care? Well, no, I do care.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean I don't care.
Speaker 2:We were just saying that the edges were more care. Maybe the middle is, don't care.
Speaker 1:Maybe the edges are more. Maybe, if you believe or you don't believe, maybe that doesn't mean you care less, but it would take way more to convince you otherwise. Like I mean the stuff up here on belief, for me that's all like. It's like personal experience, like I've experienced a round earth. I've experienced love for my kids. Well, you know, you fly in one direction long enough. You're going to be back where you started.
Speaker 2:That would also work if you were in a sphere. Oh, it wouldn't. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:All right, let's do this one. You know, let's do this one.
Speaker 2:You know, let's do this one. Are we doing hell this?
Speaker 3:is hell.
Speaker 1:Burning forever. This is the forever version of hell. I don't know what hell is or what hell isn't, but this is the common evangelical view of forever and ever internal conscious torment. Stick it on there.
Speaker 2:I hate this one.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, you want me to go first? You want to go first? I can go. Go ahead, put it on there, do I?
Speaker 3:believe in the eternal version of Bernie Helm? No. Yeah, okay, I'm probably down here with Jennifer Zepstein Okay. Wow, you're down here no one shooter and epstein I just think if it's the version of hell where you die and you didn't do enough good stuff and so you're gonna go and just be flailing in this lake and burning alive for the rest of your life and scream I don't, that's not right on that.
Speaker 1:I'm out on that version you're 50, 50 I just don't know you think there's a chance. You think there's a.
Speaker 2:You think there's a tread in water. It's hard. It's hard when you're raised. The way I was to let it go completely.
Speaker 3:Okay, I relate with that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm like out of fear, probably I'm 50-50.
Speaker 1:I relate to that. I am probably. You know. I'm down here with Drew and I would be at a near zero, except for the little scared part of me that's like no, you don't want to burn in hell. Yeah, so it can't be a zero. Now again I qualify this. I don't know what hell is. I'm not saying there isn't a hell, I just don't understand the forever and ever. You know my experience of god and my understanding of what the bible actually says. You know I that puts it way down there near zero yeah.
Speaker 1:No, whatever it is, I don't want to go there. But also there is the whole issue of you know, the billions and billions of people who have never heard, or you know, and of course other people listening will have verses and you can send them to me if you want. I just want you to know that if you send them, it's not going to. I'm down at near zero. It's not going to make a difference. You know, yeah, wow, I mean, I've heard all of those arguments and they don't to me. They don't really hold much water. This will be a fun one. We've got two or three more to go, guys. Hell, it's fun. Then we're done. Yeah, I didn't mind. I almost can we even post this podcast with her grumpiness, I think so. I mean, I mean, we're gonna have to title it grumpy jennifer and uh it's gonna come out.
Speaker 3:I'm not picking up the grumpiness, like you are, he looks at me goes.
Speaker 2:I don't think he thought about it, yeah, so you're you're. You're picking up on something that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, so here.
Speaker 3:I'm not picking up grumpiness.
Speaker 1:What's funny is you guys both have a fear instinct. You're a seven, you're a five, so you're on the and so you don't want to go to hell, but you don't want to put it down there because you're scared it might be I. My thing is shame, so I'm not really scared of much stuff, but I'm sitting here going did I do something wrong? Why is she upset? Are we going to have to talk about this later?
Speaker 2:Are we going to I don't even know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Okay, this will be a fun one.
Speaker 2:You're picking up on what are you a four.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a four three Rapture. Now Rapture is.
Speaker 3:Kirk Cameron style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's make Rapture Kirk Cameron style. For those of you who are listening, I just threw Rapture on the table and we're going to put this on our belief scale and let's do the kind of like Jesus comes back and swipes everybody out.
Speaker 3:You're driving your car and it wrecks into a tree because you were taken out of the seat You've been left behind, larry Norman.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, let's do rapture as probably the evangelicals have known it, like there's going to be a tribulation, but before that Jesus just sucks everybody away and everybody else is left.
Speaker 2:Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, we can do this first, but then I have a question about this.
Speaker 1:Well, you probably know more about the rapture than I do. I know all about the rapture.
Speaker 3:I mean you listen to a lot of John Hagee.
Speaker 2:I was raised Southern Baptist. We lived about. This is all we talked about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've gotten more.
Speaker 2:You can probably explain the rapture better than I can Well, I just don't understand what Kirk Cameron's style is, because if you don't believe in the rapture, do you still believe in the tribulation? And that's I'm.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I'm confused that's such a good question, though, because you use the believe in okay so what are you confused about?
Speaker 2:you're confused about what we're talking about. That was lightning.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know you, maybe because you know more about the rapture? Why don't you set up the context like what?
Speaker 2:what? No, I don't know. You said that the tribulation, and then we get sucked up well, what I know about kirk cameron style is that I love that we're calling it that it's left behind right.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and I read the left behind, and that is that christians are taken away, clothes are folded and oh, kirk cameron was in left behind.
Speaker 2:Is that what we're calling it, kirk cameron? Yeah, that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was his movies. I think he produced them and whatever it was in them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, I thought it was because he does that ministry thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so isn't that what you understand of the rapture? You were arguing with people about the rapture before I got into, before. It was cool, yeah you were, I was I remember you told me about it in the car the other day. You went to somebody and said what do you do with the?
Speaker 2:Rapture. Oh well, my sister no, but there was another.
Speaker 1:Didn't you talk to some evangelist about it, or something one?
Speaker 2:time. Oh, we did, we talked to.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:I did. I brought it up to a teacher one time.
Speaker 1:What did they say?
Speaker 2:He's like well, a lot of people think it was made up.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, okay so, let's so so.
Speaker 2:I think I have some baggage with the rapture, so that probably will play into my percentages.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a Christian belief among some people that, even though rapture is not in the Bible, that they, through like systematic theology, they've pulled out this concept where at some point, people who have prayed a sinner's prayer will be taken away, if this happens, before they die. And then Jesus, for some people believe he then punishes everybody else or destroys the world, and then there's a new heaven. Anyways, the rapture is what-.
Speaker 2:This is what has always confused me about the rapture there's rapture and then there's tribulation, and then Jesus comes back.
Speaker 1:Again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:That's one of the I mean-.
Speaker 2:That's how I was raised.
Speaker 3:The whole seven years where he just kind of- yeah, there's the seven years of tribulation, and then Jesus comes back to rule and reign.
Speaker 1:Oh, so he comes and picks us up.
Speaker 2:But he doesn't come all the way down. We meet him in the sky.
Speaker 1:Got you, then I think, when he comes back, he actually lands. Are we talking like 30,000?
Speaker 2:feet or something. Yeah, I don't know, just chilling up there Getting sucked up.
Speaker 1:Where does he come from?
Speaker 2:Listen, I'm just telling you.
Speaker 1:Listen.
Speaker 2:Okay, he's going to break up in that eastern sky baby.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's the east.
Speaker 2:Yeah, eastern sky, baby. Oh, it's the east.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gabriel's got the horn, you know. But wait a minute. I know it's so confusing, like so. He's going to be going, he's going to be coming, but already have a rotation, because everybody is going to come from the. He's going to come from the east for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yes, so he's gonna.
Speaker 1:He's gonna go in a circle, it's all flat because, what so some people are going to see the back backside of him.
Speaker 2:They're going to be like wait a minute, what's that in the western sky? Oh wait, I'm going to go into the east again. Spin around. You tell your kids that is him. He'll be back in a minute, let's just spin around, he'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 1:Well, he might come over an ocean. If he comes over an ocean, then it will be east for everybody.
Speaker 2:Listen to you. Yeah, you say this as if I know.
Speaker 1:Well, but you have looked at the rapture more than me. I have not paid much attention to it.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I've looked at it as much as I've just been.
Speaker 1:You've thought about it.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I was terrified as a child, yeah.
Speaker 3:Terrified. That was my thing, man, as a kid. It was like every night you'd pray, say your prayers, ask forgiveness of your sins, of your nine-year-old sins, Because the scripture, he's coming back like a thief in the night. In my mind I was like it's going to be the night and if I forget to say my, I have to ask forgiveness, because he's going to come back while I'm sleeping and I would. The nights I would forget, I would wake up in the morning in a panic and be like man. I'm so glad the Lord didn't come back last night. I forgot to ask forgiveness before I went to sleep.
Speaker 2:Mine was more. I was going to be the only one left behind in my family.
Speaker 3:I think that's probably a valid fear, though I was terrified that I was going to be left behind.
Speaker 2:That's so sad.
Speaker 1:So the gospel is good news, but you guys were scared of.
Speaker 2:Gospel is good news. If you get it right, I mean like my family, I mean like you know what, if, what? If you didn't get it right, you get left.
Speaker 1:Well, that'll preach. So in the gospel according to I'm not being facetious, but in the gospel according to Jennifer, the rapture is not good news. No.
Speaker 2:Like your truth. Okay, but for a lot of people it was good news because they were like great, we don't have to be, because I was raised like a pre-trib kind of rapture.
Speaker 3:Or if you get it right the first time you get to go, you get to go and you don't have to be here through tribulation.
Speaker 2:So it was good news.
Speaker 3:But that's tribulation is real scary because that's when, like evil takes over and you're getting tortured and all that you got to withstand. That's when you got to suffer persecution.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because you didn't get it right the first time, but this is your shot.
Speaker 2:And a lot of the Holy Spirit's gone because all the Christians are gone, so it's really scary. But you know then, because all your Christian friends are gone, you got to Then you're really alone.
Speaker 1:You got to hang tough, that's right, but that would almost be like-.
Speaker 2:It would almost be like you know what Kill me at the beginning of tribulation and I'll be done.
Speaker 3:Right, just put me out.
Speaker 2:Just put me out. I don't want to go through this.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm just thinking if that were to happen, pretty scary, but almost it would really help your faith. Like no 100%, because you'd be like oh man, okay.
Speaker 3:So those people were right, so whatever they did I yep the other thing but you're facing torture, but so you have to hold. You have to hold strong through the torture yeah depending on well, if you come from that same belief system, you can't. What about kids? Are they raptured?
Speaker 2:I think if you, if you were before the age of accountability, age of understanding. Yeah, interesting yours was understanding, mine was accountability what is same thing?
Speaker 3:it's different for everybody. Depends on the kid oh well, wait.
Speaker 1:So we went to the same. Well, maybe I just haven't reached it you haven't.
Speaker 2:This is a great aha moment for you right now but can you say that like?
Speaker 1:no the people who aren't saved maybe this? They just haven't reached an age of understanding no because well, you said accountability and you said understanding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was more like you're too young to know to make a decision.
Speaker 2:But now you're old enough to know for yourself To be accountable for your sins.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, man. Well, okay, jennifer, you put yours on first, I don't know, I mean, I'm like down down down Okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't want to say I'm down there and honestly I'm doing that, but probably out of fear. I'm like, what if I'm wrong? And also I just believe in not reading Revelation because it's too scary, so let's just not go there.
Speaker 3:I'm kind of in that boat too. I'm going to go, I'm putting mine in the middle for the same Well, for the same reason of like I don't. A long time ago, the end times thing freaked me out and I couldn't figure it out, and I'd always get really upset at people who felt like they had. This is exactly how it's going to happen. I'm like you don't know that.
Speaker 1:So I've just like put it in the category of I'm not going to think a whole lot about it, okay, I'm going to go with Jennifer on that one, because she Don't blame me.
Speaker 2:Now you're going to be left behind Because she knows more than me. I don't know more than you about that.
Speaker 1:I just haven't studied the rapture much.
Speaker 3:You're going to have fans that will look at you and be like thanks a lot, jennifer.
Speaker 2:This is your fault. I was down at 25 with you.
Speaker 1:Well we'll both be in hell because of me. We'll be in tribulation. Oh, we'll be in hell. I see what you're saying.
Speaker 2:This wasn't supposed to be real so I was raised by also conspiracy theory parents, and so my parents were like, okay, the rapture's gonna happen, but they're gonna blame it on. Oh sorry, I'm kicking that a lot yeah sorry they going to blame it on an alien abduction. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:So aliens take everybody.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it's going to be the rapture, but in order just to write that off, as don't? It's kind of like the snap, remember in Endgame.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 2:So the reason for all these people disappearing?
Speaker 1:was an alien abduction, yeah All right, let me take a, because I know we need to wrap up and I've only got two more. Let me take a detour here. You want to?
Speaker 3:check that camera real quick see if it's working.
Speaker 1:Yeah, will you check that one you?
Speaker 2:have to pop up and check it.
Speaker 1:Here's what is interesting to me about Jennifer and I'm saying interesting because I do want to understand this, about Enneagram fives, or because they're. Jennifer wants to know, like, if there's information to be had, she wants to know. Also, she doesn't like an elephant in the room. If she's in a car with four people and there's, she'll be. Like guys, let's just talk about this, it's in here. So she wants to know right. Like guys, let's just talk about this, it's in here, so she wants to know, right. There are thousands of years of literature about the rapture and about hell, but you don't have an interest in reading those. That's later Jennifer's problem.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've got too much happening here with Epstein. She's got to figure out Epstein stuff I've got the CIA to deal with. Do you think you've?
Speaker 1:listened to more about Epstein than you have about the rapture.
Speaker 2:No, because I've got my whole history. I also have a lot of baggage with that and I had a lot of fear growing up about it and I'm kind of like I can't deal with that anymore and I'm just like I don't want to talk about it anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get that, um, all right, so let's, let's do this one and throw it down. Should we even do this one?
Speaker 2:the bible is literal like no, let's don't, let's don't okay because we'll get into an argument because I do think hey, bug this is a rare sadie sighting autumn harvest. Are you really cinnamon harvest? What's it called cereal? Is that it's a cereal she was craving last night.
Speaker 1:She almost left at midnight to go get some. She's going to get it.
Speaker 2:Get some milk too. Where should I go? Walmart, you can go to Walmart or anywhere, just get some organic.
Speaker 1:She just said Walmart, you're sending her to Walmart.
Speaker 2:Well, Walmart has the best deal on that cereal. Oh, okay okay, Because you can get a family size. Oh gosh, I'm going to want to eat it.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite cereal.
Speaker 2:It is delicious.
Speaker 1:Okay so.
Speaker 3:I saved this one for last because I you guys didn't want to do Bibles literal, because you two would argue.
Speaker 1:I don't. Well, do you want to do it, Drew?
Speaker 3:I don't know, I'm fine, I was just curious.
Speaker 1:That's too scary for me. I love a good argument. That is. One thing that has changed for me over time is I didn't grow up with a lot of the Bible and then in my 20s I learned to read it as in literal history book, which I think that was important, but I do think there's a lot of nuance to it. That question always drove me nuts in the church, jennifer, you don't have to do it if you don't want to.
Speaker 2:I just I'm kind of like with the flood. I'm like I totally believe it could have happened 100%. Oh, that was scary. I thought you were me, I thought it was you. What did you think?
Speaker 3:he was doing. You thought I cut the cheese.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was like wow you thought that was a. I did.
Speaker 1:Just thought I farted. Your farts sound like a garage door.
Speaker 2:It was like it was a low guttural, did you say that?
Speaker 3:because I'm fat, I had to be the guy that farted.
Speaker 1:There's parts of the Bible that are supposed to be literal right. I think, this is more the view of God wrote it, bible says it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just.
Speaker 3:I'm not even going to do this one. All right, let's not do it.
Speaker 1:All right, so here's the last one Spoiler alert. It's not so I saved this one for last, because this is where, I think, some of that's going to be so loud. That's right, that's the garage door folks.
Speaker 2:Oh, right, right, I think this I'm gonna.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna lay this one out. What it says is God knows the future, and so this is where I think some of this stuff, what I've, what I've noticed as we looked at this for those of you who are just listening is it? It seems like that Jennifer Drew and I all the stuff that we say we believe in, that it's's been like tested over time, personal experience and then we've got some stuff down there that we don't believe in, that we're just like, oh my gosh, this stuff just doesn't make sense, and we've got a lot of stuff in the middle which is like you could be convinced one way or the other. There's really no way to absolutely 100% know if God knows the future, because God has also given us free will, and so you know, with our free will, god is hands off about some stuff. And so I guess what I want to ask you guys is do you believe or does it matter to you that God know the future?
Speaker 2:I believe God knows the future 100.
Speaker 1:I'm like there okay, so let me ask you this question then, because this is what I would ask my clients what happens then with if God knows the future? Do you believe God can change the future?
Speaker 2:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:So you believe, god knows it.
Speaker 2:I believe that God can see all the different pathways and he can change it. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So then, what do you do with dead babies? What do you do with God? You could have changed that, but you didn't.
Speaker 2:You okay? Is that a yawn? I rack it up to um god knows more than I do and so god knows more than you do what. So that that makes it I do think that there's evil in the world, but I do think that god can change the future. I don't I I can't answer all those questions, but I do.
Speaker 1:I do believe it could you be convinced otherwise?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know that I could okay, what about you drew?
Speaker 1:where do you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I'm, I'm with jennifer on God knows the future, but it's hard. You have to believe this. If you're trying to live like I think, if you're trying to live a life of like, surrender, Like well, who am I surrendering to Well?
Speaker 3:I can't surrender to someone who doesn't not worthy of surrender. So, like, my goal in life right now is to surrender to God and let God shape what's next, as opposed to the striving. But I do think, and I think for me it has to do with like and it's going to sound real churchy when I say this, but I get real tired of like the miracles base. God needs to show up and fix things and do things for me, type theology, because I'm like well, he did. Like, going back to what we believe in to. You know, when it comes to jesus, it's like, if we believe in the finished work of the cross for our past, present and future sins, and that god cared enough to send his son to die and to cover all those things, then it can't be because he doesn't care, because he's not heartbroken over things that happen to us or what's happening in the future, because, but he did give us free will and so evil things happen. But it's not a lack of God caring. But I think in the church there's a movement of the cross not being enough, where people are like well, yeah, you did that. But then it's like yeah, but I need you to fix this for me too, and I need you to heal this for me too, and I need you to heal this for me too, and I need whatever.
Speaker 3:And we have such a, in my opinion, I've lived with such a nearsighted theology of I need God to rescue me from my temporary pain and trials, and not a fuller version of yeah, there's a God that loves me. Once was best for me and whatever's next I don't know what it is is going to be better than what I'm experiencing now. And so I've had to go down that road with my father-in-law, who passed away, and it was unfair and terrible and tragic and all the things, and he was a great man and took care of his body and did all the things you're supposed to do, and then it didn't make any sense, and at the time, I was a part of a church that was just beating this miracle theology, and of a church that was just beating this miracle theology and I'm just like, hey, it's not happening for me, like, and it was like three or four things in a row that happened.
Speaker 3:I was like, hey, god didn't show up, like if we're grading god on the curve of how good he does miracles, he's got an f for the powell family right now, not doing well. But then I was like, okay, well, what if it's not about that? What if it's? He's already? He's already done that. His heart breaks with me, but he's already paved away you know what I'm saying it's just you got to have a a wider view than I. Need god to fix all my problems that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean I feel like you, you, you kind of thought that through. I feel like you kind of are like I don't need to think this one through, it's you know okay, Well, no. I mean like there's some stuff on here that you're like look I. I believe that.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just I feel like that's what I'm saying. I know that's what I'm saying too.
Speaker 1:I think you know, especially doing client work, some of them will go okay. So why, if God knows the future and can change the future, but he doesn't change that? Is that the same as causing it Like?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's not the same as causing it to me.
Speaker 1:Well, if your kids are going to run out in traffic and be hit by a car, and you have the power to stop that.
Speaker 2:I see what you're saying and you don't stop it.
Speaker 1:And you don't, then is it on you.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:What do you think about that? Like, if you don't, if you have the power to stop it, and you don't, is it on you then?
Speaker 2:It's a good dead air moment I'm sorry if I have the power to stop my kid from running in traffic and I don't stop them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they get hit by a car, sure so if god has the ability to intervene for us and help us and he doesn't, is that on god?
Speaker 2:I don know. I think it's different Because even though like okay say the worst, absolute worst thing happens, god is with us and shows up bigger for us in those horrible things.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:If we allow it. If we allow it, I mean, there are times that we go through horrible things and we don't allow God to show up for us because we don't allow ourselves to mourn, we don't allow ourselves to show up for us because we, you know, we don't allow ourselves to mourn, we don't allow ourselves to, you know, and so, yeah, I mean I think God will be there with us when horrible things happen.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, totally. I mean, I don't think there's a place we can go away from God. Um, I mean, I'm kind of 50 50 with that one. I don't, I don't know. Here's the thing that I do believe that God is with us and that God takes all things and somehow makes good, beautiful out of them. He works all things together for good.
Speaker 1:If for those of us, like you said, who choose it or in the flow, you know God, I think of things as flow. And there's a river that runs out of the side of the temple and it makes glad the city of God, and scripture says God's in the midst of her and she will not be moved, even if drought comes, whatever Like. And I think there's another flow too. There's a wave of justice that is rolling against all evil, and I don't want to be on or near that wave, and so it's like there are two very. You know the law given to the Hebrews. It's the same root word as flow of water, and so that is just how life with God works. You don't have gods or idols, and you, you know there's no theft and there's honesty and there's no envy, and you honor your father and mother and you keep the Sabbath. You know, all these things are God's flow.
Speaker 1:So I do think that in that flow God takes everything and makes good out of it. I just don't know. In that flow God takes everything and makes good out of it, I just don't know. I am utterly confused about how those questions of, well, if God can change the future but doesn't, and even if we're innocently harmed, if God just like a kid running out in the street, if we came home and somebody was babysitting our kids and they ran out into the street and got hit by a car, I would say it's on the babysitter, like I'm, like, what were you doing? You know you could have stopped that, but you didn't. And so where I'm at is I don't know how God relates to the future. You know with us for sure, working everything for sure, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know about that. That's fair. I'm at the I don't know part.
Speaker 3:Are you moving yours? I'm in the middle now. He just convinced me.
Speaker 1:I don't want to convince you that God doesn't know the future.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying I mean honestly, yeah, I'm kind of banking on that he does. Yeah, I mean honestly, yeah, I'm kind of banking on that he does. By the way, I'm choosing to live in this season. Right, right, because if he, doesn't like I need to get my ass back to work.
Speaker 1:I mean not right now.
Speaker 3:But I'm just saying like I've spent so much of my life striving to try to make things happen, as opposed to saying I'm going to just surrender that God has good things and maybe, if I try a different way because I think God will let you strive and let you be successful, Like I don't think it's one or the other, but I'm trying this path of like I'm going to try the surrender and see if God surprises me with how he shows up. And it's so far, it's worked.
Speaker 1:But I don't think your surrender includes you not putting forth effort. Definitely not. And so because if we just sit around all day and we go, god knows the future and he's going to take care of me, no matter what, right, and you just lay on the couch and wait for the yeah, that doesn't work either. Right, and so walking with the Lord takes effort. Lord takes effort. But what you're saying, it sounds like what you're saying is as you're putting forth the effort, you're realizing that the produce comes from god.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, and just trying to be trying to be more present, because I think that's where, like I don't know, I just see so many places in scripture where it does talk about that like daily bread, and you know being like.
Speaker 3:So it's like, yeah, I'm in the moment, I'm working and doing my thing and whatever, but I'm not gonna stress and have anxiety over the future, because I'm just gonna trust that, as I'm doing the next right thing, the next best thing and showing up being fully present, that he's gonna. He's gonna fill in the future gaps. Yeah, but what I'm doing in the present does impact my future. It is work. I mean, I'm still doing those things.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's like seriously, I'm thinking out loud here, Maybe that's like Jesus the rabbi going come follow me, I have an easy yoke. Maybe that's what that is. Maybe it's like you're walking with the rabbi you're still moving, but it's a following.
Speaker 3:now it's not like you out in front going.
Speaker 1:When I say you, I mean us, the people yeah, I don't know I like that. Um, you know I just in working with clients, you, you know, most of my day is working with clients, most of my days, and in the work that I do I encounter a lot of sadness and I know that, the things I know. There are two things that I can't say because they're not helpful. You can't just go well, god's will or fallen world, and and those are things I've actually heard people say- and.
Speaker 1:I can't just go. Well God's will. You lost that baby. Well fallen world, you know try again when you're actually trying that in real time. It doesn't help, it's of no comfort to people, and so this comes up sometimes. You know the God, knowing the future and the the why and all that I'm looking we're at like an hour and 24 minutes so thank you, I think we solved it
Speaker 2:uh, two things okay, yeah one, you have studied the rapture more than me. Two I have. Yes, you're the one that explained the what's hishis-face's girlfriend and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Darby yeah, well, I mean, I probably read it and then told you immediately yeah, so that. I didn't live it, though, like you did With.
Speaker 2:God knowing the future. I mean it's easy for people who are going through—I just lived experience with people who have gone through horrible things of saying you know God was there. I don't know who still believe that God knows the future even though they've been through losing a child which is the worst, like that's the trump card.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and so.
Speaker 3:Well, you said it earlier, I think the with the withness part of God I think we I know I didn't look at enough, because when I was going through the darkest season of my life, I don't feel like God rescued me from anything. I felt like I went through every second of it, but I do feel I felt like he was with me and I invited him into those moments and there was peace and there was things, but it wasn't like God spared me. So I think that's I appreciated that point.
Speaker 1:Do you guys? Okay, last question Do you guys, now that we're defining belief as like 100% certain, do you believe that God is good?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I do yeah, me too yeah.
Speaker 2:All the time.
Speaker 3:And all the time and all the time.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting. You know we've we've been able to talk about all this stuff and kind of hold space, for you know the shape of the earth, jeffrey epstein, did we hold space?
Speaker 2:for the earth space.
Speaker 1:Uh, some of us yelled at the others, but whatever, I didn't yell at you, but whatever, I yelled with you. Yes, we were both yelling. No-transcript. Maybe I'm going to rename this the gospel according to us.
Speaker 3:I don't think I want to be, I want to be just your gospel. You don't want to be associated with mine, exactly.
Speaker 1:Okay, thanks everybody for joining us. If you want to get a hold of us, you can do that through any of our Instagram pages. Jeremy Dibler, this is my Jenstagram and you're Drew Powell, 82.
Speaker 2:After this conversation, I'm going back to spicy Instagram.
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:Because if you're going to say the stuff you said here, I'm going back to spicy.
Speaker 1:Can you just pick out one thing?
Speaker 2:Hell burning forever.
Speaker 1:That is the thing that's controversial here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's with, with me, I don't care, I'm married to you I know, but so you're gonna be.
Speaker 1:What are you gonna be posting because of what I said today?
Speaker 3:she's back. Yes, give the people what they want. We've missed her, man, I don't know what. We need her on there. That's where we get all our material, the rest of the people what they want. We've missed her, man, I don't know. We need her on there, that's where we get all our material.
Speaker 2:The rest of the people. People need it, they need me, they need my news.
Speaker 3:I don't this is. You did this. I don't care what you post, you made this happen. But.
Speaker 1:I don't know why today Is putting you back there.
Speaker 2:Hell Because.
Speaker 3:Because you don't believe in hell.
Speaker 1:Because, well in hell, because, well, obviously, I don't believe in it but even if it was, up at 75. I mean listen, I'm just saying I'm back baby okay I'm gonna start.
Speaker 2:All right, everybody, where's my phone? Buckle up, buckle up, buttercup it's happening next week.
Speaker 1:Uh, drew is out of town again, so we have uh, a friend of jennifer and mine. Uh, his name is joel ro, really fun, funny guy. And then the week after that Drew is back.
Speaker 2:So in September we get to Drew, to not Drew, time off.
Speaker 1:Oh and we did get an invitation for a podcast across America.
Speaker 3:House tour. Our first house tour date Is it happening.
Speaker 1:Well, we got our first invitation Akron, Ohio, so we may be taking this show on the road.
Speaker 3:Taking our talents to. Akron, Taking our talents to Northern Ohio baby, please, let's wait and go there in the middle of winter. That would be great. You know what I think we need to do.
Speaker 1:I think you guys need to do one of these without me.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine We'd be down here in the zero the whole time, I think? I've always thought that.
Speaker 1:The Nate Land podcast to me is the gold standard. I think those guys are amazing and they have recently done a couple Without Nate, and so I think you should do a Gospel, according to Jeremy, without me. I just want to see how that works out.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would be something.
Speaker 1:So you're second in command, so you would run that.
Speaker 2:Oh, there wouldn't be a question. I can tell you that much.
Speaker 1:No, you'd have to bring one.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:What would it be? Who are you voting for? Who are you?
Speaker 2:voting for. Are you an idiot or not?
Speaker 3:Same question Exactly. Let me reword it Welcome everyone to. Are you an Idiot with?
Speaker 1:Jennifer Dibley. Okay, on this scale how big of an idiot are you? You know what I want her to do If this is idiot, no, if zero's idiot and 100 is smart will you just put me on there, would you?
Speaker 3:Oh, please Put me.
Speaker 1:Idiot okay.
Speaker 3:She's got me down to zero already. She's got you down where you're held.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what that means? I don't know, are you?
Speaker 3:an idiot, I don't know. Would you?
Speaker 1:say you're here.
Speaker 2:Where would?
Speaker 1:I be on the idiot scale.
Speaker 2:I don't know Somewhere down here, you don't tell me things. Well, it depends on the context.
Speaker 1:What do I not tell you?
Speaker 2:It depends on what we're talking about.
Speaker 1:I learned today this podcast that you were 75% sure the Earth is a globe.
Speaker 2:I'm learning right now. Okay, I'm 1,000% sure I don't care.
Speaker 1:I know, but I'm just saying what are you learning about me?
Speaker 2:That I didn't. I knew all this crap.
Speaker 1:Actually I should leave this here Next week.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have names. Next week we're talking to Joel.
Speaker 1:Next week I'm going to have names of people. Next time Drew's on about names of people and where they are on the idiot scale.
Speaker 3:Oh, I like that. Oh, okay, okay, that's going to be the question idiot.
Speaker 1:Is that nice? Can it be people we know and celebrities?
Speaker 3:yeah, we're gonna put maize on there, beason aaron benward I literally shelly breen, scott smith.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. Oh my gosh, I can't believe we'll see you guys next week. His face is like.