Finding Meaningless

Without their anchor Drew, Jeremy and Jennifer dive into uncharted waters, steering a conversation that feels surprisingly intimate and revealing. What begins as a search for a new podcast name evolves into a profound exploration of life's seasons and transitions.

Jeremy shares a powerful metaphor that's been transforming his counseling practice - viewing life as a four-act play. The warrior phase (birth to 25) establishes our origin story. The king/queen phase (25-50) finds us building and maintaining our kingdoms while often feeling the weight of responsibility. The lover phase (50-75) brings the harvest of experience coupled with wisdom. And for those fortunate enough to reach it, the sage phase (75+) offers a sweet winter where others come to you for guidance.

The conversation weaves between deeply philosophical insights and hilariously candid moments. Jennifer and Jeremy reminisce about their turbulent "Act Two" marked by Jeremy's MS diagnosis and the challenges of raising young children. They debate which characters from "The Summer I Turned Pretty" need the most counseling, share a recent pregnancy scare that led to serious contraception discussions, and recall the chaotic early days of parenthood when baby Hutch peed into an electrical socket during his first diaper change.

Through laughter and occasional vulnerability, they demonstrate how relationships evolve across life's acts - from the passionate warriors they were when they married too young to the exhausted administrators of middle life, and now as they glimpse the approaching autumn phase with both apprehension and curiosity.

For anyone feeling stuck between life stages or wondering if their exhaustion is normal, this episode offers both validation and perspective. Which act are you in, and how's the transition going? Join the conversation and share your thoughts on our new podcast name options!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:11

we're back everybody okay, hello there was a little bit of drama last week. Uh, we recorded.

Speaker 2 0:18

Well, wait, let me hear it hang on, you're connected to there we go.

Speaker 1 0:26

Okay, is it too loud? Hello, hello. I think it's fine. Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 0:30

This is why we need Big Bird, because you and I don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 1 0:34

Okay. This is where we're starting right now.

Speaker 2 0:37

Three, two, All right everybody and go Welcome to the gospel according to Jeremy and go Welcome to the Gospel.

Speaker 1 0:46

According to Jeremy Start. Now Are we starting?

Speaker 2 0:51

Did you say shut up? No?

Speaker 1 0:53

Oh, welcome to the Gospel. According to Jeremy, for the time being, we have got some great names. We want to go through with you.

Speaker 2 1:03

We recorded an amazing episode last week, guys, it was actually really good it was really good.

Speaker 1 1:09

I mean, it was the one time that actually got up from the table thinking, hey, that's where this is supposed to be, and Drew got it back to his place to edit it and there was nothing there.

Speaker 2 1:24

It was nothing.

Speaker 1 1:25

So Jennifer and me are going to recap the episode today. We have no Drew. Drew is out for the month of September. Wait, a minute, are we running? Yeah, wait, are the numbers moving? Yeah, okay, drew's out for the month of September. So we might be temporarily looking for an interim producer for about a month Fun. Until we can get Drusifer back in the saddle. So it's just Jennifer and me. This is the first time we've ever done this, it's probably going to be boring.

Speaker 2 1:57

We're just winging it.

Speaker 1 1:58

I know Just you and me, we don't have our anchor.

Speaker 2 2:01

We need a third person. Well, I just made you go silent. I kind of glitched.

Speaker 1 2:11

You glitched for a second, um, so we're gonna go over the names that you've sent some of. Let's do that first go through some of these names, because we're gonna pick in the next couple weeks. We're gonna be picking a new name for this podcast, because I written down in glory and it's mine.

Speaker 2 2:24

Okay, and it's mine.

Speaker 1 2:25

Why don't you go through some of these names?

Speaker 2 2:29

All right, finding Meaningless.

Speaker 1 2:31

Finding Meaningless, I like.

Speaker 2 2:33

Jeremy Interrupted.

Speaker 1 2:37

That feels right. You know, jeremy, interrupted feels right.

Speaker 2 2:42

I don't know why you'd say that Jeremy Dibler has a podcast.

Speaker 1 2:46

I like that one.

Speaker 2 2:47

I'll bet you do Diblerville.

Speaker 1 2:50

Wait, you missed one.

Speaker 2 2:51

That's got an X by it.

Speaker 1 2:52

The Diblercoaster is gone.

Speaker 2 2:55

I feel like we nuked it. We've got some here that we just, the Diblercoaster was actually mine.

Speaker 1 3:00

I put it in there. It's the one that got nuked, to be completely honest. Yeah, okay, uh, and you know why I put that? Because you and I had that talk, you know, a couple of weeks ago now remember we were on our way to play music in Virginia and I was kind of apologizing to you for the diabler coaster that you were the ride.

Speaker 1 3:19

That was Jeremy oh yeah well, I have a lot of. You know the first 10 years of our marriage was. It was a roller coaster, for sure, but actually on that drive you helped me clear something, because I had always thought about that first 10 years as being, you know, 60-40, 40% good, you know what I mean 60% bad.

Speaker 2 3:46

Oh, that's sad.

Speaker 1 3:47

Well, because I've had a lot of people tell me you know I'll go and you know hang out with somebody that I haven't seen for a while, and they'll be like, man, you're not the person you were 15 years ago and I don't know how to take that.

Speaker 2 3:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:59

I think they mean it as a compliment.

Speaker 2 4:06

I don't know I kind of miss old Jeremy. Sometimes you do what part of him? I don't know, because you are a completely different person in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 4:10

I'm not. I was just trying to say that I'm not.

Speaker 2 4:12

No, but you are in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 4:14

Because I'm sick.

Speaker 2 4:17

You're sick in the head. Because, you're sick.

Speaker 1 4:21

I mean, I'm not sick, but like no, you're just more calm. Yeah, I don't know. I just I feel a lot of regret for during the, you know, in my 20s, I just kind of ran people over. It was I don't even want to say my way, or the highway, because there wasn't even a highway, it was just my way.

Speaker 2 4:43

You were plowing a new highway.

Speaker 1 4:44

I was. You're were plowing a new highway. I was.

Speaker 2 4:47

You're Mater making a new no, you were. Mcqueen making a new road.

Speaker 1 4:51

But you want me to go back to that I don't know what you're talking about. Oh just, I don't know Sometimes Well, what did you like about it?

Speaker 2 4:59

Because there were things happening.

New Podcast Name Suggestions

Speaker 1 5:01

I know, but I think I'm just bored things happening, I know, but I think I'm just bored the things. Here's the problem with things happening things would happen, right, and then, after that would happen, I would go.

Speaker 2 5:11

Well, was that me oh, or was that god? Yeah, I know and I remember you saying that when I don't know when we've talked about this. Can I have a drink of whatever that is?

Speaker 1 5:21

So the Dibler Coaster is out. Dibler Coaster, so again from top to bottom, finding Meaningless.

Speaker 2 5:34

Jeremy, interrupted Jeremy.

Speaker 1 5:35

Dibler has a Podcast Diblerville, diblerville.

Speaker 2 5:37

Chasing Rabbits.

Speaker 1 5:38

Which that's kind of Chasing Rabbits, that's kind of good.

Speaker 2 5:41

I kind of like that Derailed, which I like, that one.

Speaker 1 5:44

Derailed. You know, we could spell derailed D-E-I.

Speaker 2 5:48

Why would we do that? Oh, like die-railed.

Speaker 1 5:50

Oh, never mind it would be die-railed, it would be like.

Speaker 2 5:52

Everybody should pronounce it yeah, the Deep End. No, it should be called the Shallow End. The Shallow, the Everyday Gospel.

Speaker 1 6:04

It should be called Above Ground Pool.

Speaker 2 6:06

The Second Act Podcast.

Speaker 1 6:08

Now that one I like.

Speaker 2 6:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 6:10

Did we talk about First Second Act Was?

Speaker 2 6:15

that on the one that got erased, or was that? Two weeks ago, I think it was on the one that got erased. Okay, Three's Company Podcast. Yeah we can't do that Come and knock at our door. The Vent Session.

Speaker 1 6:27

Okay, vent session.

Speaker 2 6:29

Big Bird and the Chicken Lady.

Speaker 1 6:31

All right.

Speaker 2 6:31

Which doesn't work, obviously, because Big Bird.

Speaker 1 6:34

Big Fat Bird is out.

Speaker 2 6:36

I did not say that.

Speaker 1 6:37

Babe listen.

Speaker 2 6:39

I've never called him that, I've never even thought that.

Speaker 1 6:41

I think you actually did. I did not Early on at his house.

Speaker 2 6:44

I would never even thought that I think you actually did. I did not Early on at his house. I would never, I would never say that to someone. I know, baby I just don't even think it. I said he's a big guy because he's really big.

Speaker 1 6:53

On occasion on this podcast.

Speaker 2 6:55

I have never said that. If someone can find it, I'll give you $25,000.

Speaker 1 7:00

Here's the thing, though In real life, in our everyday life, you never say oh my God, but on this podcast, you've said oh my God.

Speaker 2 7:08

Still would not call Drew fat, because I don't think Drew is fat.

Speaker 1 7:11

OK, I think he's big. How tall is he? Seven, eight, nine.

Speaker 2 7:17

Seven, eight, seven, nine, whatever, he's a big dude. Ok, checking in or checking out.

Speaker 1 7:23

Yeah, check up from the neck up. Oh, we cut that one out. Check up from the neck up. Stuff and things. The stuff and thing, I mean, I think it's supposed to be stuff and things, but it to her on the phone, uh, and she said uh, she said what about now? And also now what? Oh, I like now, I like now. What now? What now? What with jeremy dyer?

Speaker 2 7:53

oh, now, what with jeremy dyer?

Speaker 1 7:55

yeah, you put it on here all right, what are your favorites of these? If we're gonna narrow them down and, by the way, we got so many more I just Listen if someone can find me calling Drew fat in one of these podcasts. Easter egg.

Speaker 2 8:10

Yeah, there's a reward for you. I think it's like 25 bucks.

Speaker 1 8:15

Drew will probably find it.

Speaker 2 8:17

Drew, probably will. It's not there, so I'm saying I will pay you $25. That's a lot. I mean that's not very much money, but it's something I would look around for it who's paying this? Me. Okay, I'm paying the reward because I think I'm right okay so you're taking this out of your boot budget my boot budget every fall oh you know it sounded like you, like I'm getting, like I'm saving money for a boob budget. Yeah, we're not doing that. I'm not doing that we are not doing that.

Speaker 1 8:48

Yeah, which? You and I had an interesting conversation this week.

Speaker 2 8:53

Oh no.

Speaker 1 8:58

I had never known. I'd always heard the words around bra sizes. I've always heard B, c, d, 35, 36, whatever they are. Sounds like a snap count from a football game. But I finally asked you. I said what do these sizes mean?

Speaker 2 9:13

Yeah.

Speaker 1 9:13

And so the numbers are—.

Speaker 2 9:17

Are the cup size?

Speaker 1 9:19

No, is that right?

Speaker 2 9:20

Yes, oh, the numbers are around the rib cage.

Speaker 1 9:24

Okay.

Speaker 2 9:25

The letters are the cup size. What do you think? I thought the letter no. No, the numbers are around the rib cage. Okay, the letters are the cup size.

Speaker 1 9:27

What do you think I am? Seriously, I don't know.

Speaker 2 9:30

B, maybe B or C, no, I don't know. You'd have to try raw on. You'd be a big because you're very barely.

Speaker 1 9:40

I do have. You have a big rib cage, so what do you think? It's like a 50B Did they make that. That's sexy.

Speaker 2 9:47

I have no idea. Okay, I have no idea.

Speaker 1 9:55

I just remember when we were, like we were in junior high school. I actually remember a kid in my class talking. He was talking about girls and he said these numbers. It was like 24, 38, 32 or whatever. You know what I mean and none of us knew what he meant, but he did this movement with his hands if you were 24, 38, 22, that would be a very oddly shaped person, but what are the numbers?

Speaker 2 10:19

it's your, it's around here okay, size your waist size and your hip size.

Speaker 1 10:25

Oh.

Speaker 2 10:25

So it would be very tiny, like extremely tiny rib cage.

Speaker 1 10:29

Oh, what I just said.

Speaker 2 10:30

With a really big middle and tiny hips.

Speaker 1 10:40

Well, I can tell you.

Speaker 2 10:40

Right now I am probably 40, 30, 8. 8. No, I mean you're more like straight up and down until you get both to the butt I have that little monkey butt yeah, it's not, even it's it's so.

Speaker 1 10:54

No, but now it's a concave, okay, not important, all right, so here's the ones I think we need to keep in mind. I think we need to keep finding meaningless because that feels sort of right. Jeremy Interrupted. I like.

The Jeremy Coaster: Past and Present

Speaker 2 11:11

Jeremy Interrupted. Jeremy Dibler has a podcast.

Speaker 1 11:14

I like Diblerville just because if we have friends on and guests, it's like they're coming into our world.

Speaker 2 11:19

Welcome to Diblerville. Diblerworld it's very hard to say Diblerville.

Speaker 1 11:24

Well, yeah, jeremyville, jennifer Town.

Speaker 2 11:31

With Drusifer Featuring Drusifer.

Speaker 1 11:34

The Jeremy and Jennifer rodeo. I'm actually also just not just to plug my book, but over the next couple of months I'm going to be reading this and doing an audio podcast version of Liver and Onions, so people will be able to listen to me read my own memoir.

Speaker 2 11:54

Memoir Memior, memior Also, while I'm doing these shameless plugs.

Speaker 1 11:59

I have three client spots open right now. I keep between 20 and 25 clients each month. They get sort of my undivided attention and I've got three spots open. So if you'd like to do some soul care institute which I'm going to be, uh, talking to you about this fall- we also play music sometimes we also are playing some music and oh ryan springer just called. By the way, oh, did he? Yes, uh, he texted me janet.

Speaker 2 12:38

They're like our faithful watchers.

Speaker 1 12:42

They're the ones believe that people sit down. I think they're the only ones In front of their TV set at night and watch this.

Speaker 2 12:50

No, that's insane.

Speaker 1 12:52

I mean I feel like we should remember Romper Room where she used to go. I see Susie, I see I see Jenna, I never watched Romper Room.

Speaker 2 13:02

I think it was after me, Within that two years of our age difference.

Speaker 1 13:06

I think that's when Romper Room came in, you never saw Romper Room.

Speaker 2 13:09

No, not really.

Speaker 1 13:10

Oh man, it was so good.

Speaker 2 13:11

Because I didn't have cable.

Speaker 1 13:12

No, it was PBS. I think Really Poops.

Speaker 2 13:15

I don't think we had it. So anyway, we got a lot of-. I had a question about your soul care. This is so random.

Speaker 1 13:21

Okay, should we not talk about it? You're talking about the Soul Care Institute.

Speaker 2 13:24

No, no, no, no, no. Okay, so I'm watching the Summer. I Turned Pretty.

Speaker 1 13:28

Yeah, this morning.

Speaker 2 13:30

This morning and the new episode came out by the way, if you want a lesson in narcissism. Okay, wait, wait, wait the timeout Timeout. Conrad is the worst what I was going to say is if you were soul caring, if you were in charge of the soul care of conrad fisher and jeremiah fisher, oh my gosh, what would you do?

Speaker 1 13:50

I wouldn't even know where to start, but I mean okay. So belly is in a bit of a double bind yeah you know, but I I kind of think that Belly would have probably gotten together with either of those boys if those boys would have just made a brother pact and figured it out. Okay, you know what I mean From early on, from the get-go.

Speaker 2 14:20

I just don't, honestly I don't think eitherrad would, I don't think either of those boys would ever be interested in her that way, Because they grew up together, I know but only in the summer.

Speaker 1 14:32

It's still weird. You know what I mean. It's still weird If they would have, I mean if their moms they used to babysit her. Who.

Speaker 2 14:38

Like Conrad used to have to babysit her.

Speaker 1 14:46

You could have been my babysitter two years.

Speaker 2 14:47

I don't think so if you were 14 and I was 11? For sure, yeah, 14 and 11. That would have only been between june and august okay, so if you babysat me one summer, I would have not been into you. I would have been like, oh, I babysat him. That would be weird, would you? So you wouldn't have been into me later I would have been like that's weird, I babysat him. Yeah, yeah, I would have been like that's weird.

Speaker 1 15:05

I babysat him.

Speaker 2 15:05

Yeah, yeah, I would have been like I can't. That's too weird. I guess Do you know what I'm saying? I don't think anyway.

Speaker 1 15:17

I'm thinking back to some of my babysitters now, because my brother was 10 years younger than me. So when I lived with dad those couple of years they would get a babysitter for my brother, and then those couple of years they would get a babysitter for my brother, and then I would kind of be around. Oh, so you were and she wasn't that much older than me.

Speaker 2 15:29

Yeah, well, that's different, because she was babysitting your brother.

Speaker 1 15:33

Yeah, kind of Did you babysit.

Speaker 2 15:36

Never.

Speaker 1 15:37

Not one time.

Speaker 2 15:38

No, I had no idea. No, I never babysat.

Speaker 1 15:42

So was our kid's diaper the first diaper you ever changed.

Speaker 2 15:45

I changed one diaper because I was keeping my nephew while my sister was in the shower at a hotel room and he pooped. I was like I can't handle this Good thing was Wait, was I there? No Good thing was. It was not messy, it was just you know, just like a frick yeah. It just was solid, so thank the Lord. Yeah, that was the only diaper I had ever changed before Hutch. How terrifying is that I was terrified.

Speaker 1 16:13

Yeah, I'm trying to think if I I didn't change many diapers, I think I probably had changed a diaper or two, but I remember that time we brought that. So we brought Hutch home from the hospital and you went out. Did you go out with your mom? Yes, was that your mom? That was here.

Speaker 2 16:33

Of course.

Speaker 1 16:34

Was that the same day you came home? It was insane.

Speaker 2 16:36

It was like the next day my mom's like you gotta go to the store, my mom so she was like we have to go to the shop.

Speaker 1 16:43

I had hospital bracelets on, so we're at the store so we're in our brand new house. Basically, we have this brand new baby we. I think this might have been the same day- it wasn't the same day, actually, your mom made us go out to eat on the way home from the hospital.

Speaker 2 17:00

No, we made that decision.

Speaker 1 17:02

I did not.

Speaker 2 17:03

Yes, we did. We were like we're going to stop on the way home. We did too. I don't even think mom was there. She would never have gone to that restaurant that we went to.

Speaker 1 17:12

Dimples, dimples.

Speaker 2 17:13

Deli, dimples, deli, dimples Deli.

Speaker 1 17:14

Okay, so we're. So we're home. Jennifer and her mom Go out somewhere.

Speaker 2 17:18

Insane.

Speaker 1 17:19

And I am left alone With my son, your son, for the first time. And I'm thinking, okay, basically I just Gotta sit here and literally watch him Like just Just stare at him. So while you're gone you probably weren't gone More than an hour, hopefully not While- you're gone you probably weren't gone more than an hour.

Summer I Turned Pretty: Character Analysis

Speaker 1 17:38

Hopefully not while you're gone. I have to change his diaper right. So, uh, he's got a poopy diaper, so I take him up, put him on his changing table, I take his diaper down, which I was. After this, I learned that this is. He does this all the time. But I took his diaper and as soon as I got his diaper off, he peed up onto his face and down the wall into the electric socket.

Speaker 2 18:03

He blew the fuse.

Speaker 1 18:06

He blew the fuse First day home, welcome. He has peed up into his hair so I'm like crap, what am I going to do? So I went and gave him a bath, so you were gone.

Speaker 2 18:17

Oh, I remember that I missed his first bath, yeah.

Speaker 1 18:19

You were gone for no more than an hour. You come home, Hutch's peed on his face, tripped the breaker and gotten his first bath.

Speaker 2 18:28

When Sadie got home from the hospital, I remember she projectile vomited almost immediately.

Speaker 1 18:32

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 18:33

Yeah, it was great, it was so fun.

Speaker 1 18:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:36

I was like what's wrong with this baby? Now I have this baby and something's wrong with it. Yeah, and I don't know what I'm doing. Even though it was my second one, I was terrified.

Speaker 1 18:45

I feel like just from just spectating, just watching you, I feel like you knew less about babies when Sadie was born.

Speaker 2 18:53

Really.

Speaker 1 18:54

Well, she got sick. Sadie was born Really. Well, I was in PTSD. Well she got sick.

Speaker 2 18:57

I was in PTSD when Sadie was born. You were, I was so not right in the head.

Speaker 1 19:09

Yes, you had just been diagnosed, the month before she was born, and I was not right in the head. Yeah, I was really yeah, if you caught, you know the first bit of this podcast. I sort of jokingly said I'm sick, I'm not sick, I have MS. But during that time I was having bad MS relapses.

Speaker 2 19:25

Yeah, and we had just been told that you were going to have a cane in seven years In a wheelchair.

Speaker 1 19:31

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 19:31

Wheelchair 12 years and I was like what the crap?

Speaker 1 19:34

am I going to do? I've got to. What am I going to do?

Speaker 2 19:36

I know, and I wasn't in a good place no, but I was like I have to do all of this, I can't bother him, yeah you think that's what happened the other day when you had that rough morning.

Speaker 1 19:50

You think it kind of relapsed to that wait a minute.

Speaker 2 19:53

I'm not sure which rough morning you're talking about it doesn't. It's not super rare that I have a rough morning.

Speaker 1 19:58

Well, no. That day that I got mad you ran out and got some biscuits or something, because I hadn't done it.

Speaker 2 20:05

Yeah, I can't remember Probably. Yeah, I got into that. I can't ask yeah.

Speaker 1 20:10

I know it's a me problem, is it? That sounds like a good podcast title.

Speaker 2 20:15

Oh, it's a me problem.

Speaker 1 20:17

I like that. It's a me problem with Jennifer Deibler.

Speaker 2 20:20

With Jennifer Deibler.

Speaker 1 20:21

Why don't you?

Speaker 2 20:23

Now it's my podcast.

Speaker 1 20:23

Here's what we need to do. We need to do week on, week off, alternate.

Speaker 2 20:28

No, we're not going to change the name every week.

Speaker 1 20:31

But you should bring a theme.

Speaker 2 20:34

Okay, well, I brought one today.

Speaker 1 20:39

What is it? I wanted to counsel Jeremiah and Conrad. Okay, what would you do?

Speaker 2 20:42

Okay, I just watched all of it.

Speaker 1 20:45

I know.

Speaker 2 20:46

And I know that you hate Conrad, but I do think Conrad feels like he can't bother anyone with his feelings.

Speaker 1 20:52

I don't think that's true.

Speaker 2 20:54

I know that's true.

Speaker 1 20:55

I don't think it is, I know him better than you do. I've watched a lot of episodes.

Speaker 2 20:59

I know, but you haven't watched them all.

Speaker 1 21:00

Conrad is the and this is an actual term that people who are in the I don't believe this is true about Conrad. Narcissist space. He is what they call the vulnerable narcissist. So typical narcissism presents with this Machiavellian. Is that right Machiavellian?

Speaker 2 21:18

I think so.

Speaker 1 21:19

It presents with this grandiosity where it's like my thing is always the biggest, the best. But there's a subtle form of narcissism called the vulnerable narcissist, and they keep people close by having experienced the worst. You could never have it as bad as they had it. It's not just victim mentality, it's martyrdom, and so they're always doing the most, feeling the most. You know this is the lay down your life, for your whatever, and this is Conrad Conrad. Every single show becomes about Conrad.

Speaker 2 22:00

Well, that's because the show is about Conrad, but Conrad holds everything in.

Speaker 1 22:07

He doesn't though.

Speaker 2 22:08

He does, he's trying not to If.

Speaker 1 22:11

Conrad would hold stuff in, they wouldn't have had that episode on the beach where he had to tell her he loves her. Okay, he did just suck it up and go away. They're getting married.

Speaker 2 22:21

As his counselor. If you knew he was head over heels. Can't get over her. In love with her. In love with her. In love with her, would you tell him. You have to tell her.

Speaker 1 22:31

No, I would not oh my gosh. I would ask him what do you think is going to happen if and when you tell her? What do you hope happens here?

Speaker 2 22:42

He hoped they would call it off. Spoiler alert. I don't know.

Speaker 1 22:50

I mean, I don't think the Samurai Turn Pretty is a good example for any kind of case study, for soul care, counseling, whatever this is. But I know this that he hides behind. I don't want to make it about me and by doing that the whole thing is about him.

Speaker 2 23:13

I don't know. I think the show is centered around him. That's why it feels that way.

Speaker 1 23:17

And also Belly's mother. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 23:20

You hate her. I can't stand her either, but can I hold the dog? I guess she wants up here. Come on, zimbabwe. There she is.

Speaker 1 23:30

Is she in the show?

Speaker 2 23:31

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 23:32

Here's the thing. I think that I know that it's a show right.

Speaker 2 23:38

Yes, and.

Speaker 1 23:39

I'm not trying to poo-poo it, it's an entertaining show.

Speaker 2 23:42

Yes.

Speaker 1 23:42

Yeah, but the amount of people who are Team Conrad as opposed to Team Jer is blowing my mind.

Speaker 2 23:50

I think you only like Jeremiah because of his name. He is terrible.

Speaker 1 23:55

I think he's better for belly.

Speaker 2 23:56

No, you're so wrong.

Speaker 1 23:59

I'm team Steven.

Speaker 2 24:00

Steven's awesome.

Speaker 1 24:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:02

I know you like Taylor.

Speaker 1 24:04

I do.

Speaker 2 24:04

You think Taylor's?

Speaker 1 24:05

pretty, I have a type, all right, so the names I will put.

Speaker 2 24:13

How are we going to pick? This is crazy. Maybe we should just keep it and leave it alone.

Speaker 1 24:18

The Gospel According to Jeremy, yes. I'll put some of these names on the Instagram clip so people can see them Meredith Colum-Bahizi Bahizi. What do you think that says?

Speaker 2 24:34

Meredith Colum-B, his 86, 89. I don't know.

Speaker 1 24:41

I'm so glad you guys are back. I'm in the small circle of faithful listeners. I think that an hour of listening to you guys is not too much. That's nice, I'm also in favor of a weekly drop.

Speaker 2 24:51

Yeah, sorry, sorry, meredith.

Speaker 1 24:54

R-S2 says so glad you're all back. 30 minutes is too short. See Love the meredith r dash s2 says so glad you're all back.

Speaker 2 25:01

30 minutes is too short. See, love the energy you guys bring. See, I feel like we're going to be low energy. We don't have you notice me.

Speaker 1 25:03

Do you notice me like hyping it right now because we don't have drew, so I feel like I have to be extra like well, don't, don't try.

Speaker 2 25:11

I don't even notice. So, brian from texas.

Speaker 1 25:14

yes, season three. Been patiently waiting on y'all. Happy belated birthday, jerem. I love it when y'all go longer, because that meant the conversation took 18 left turns.

Speaker 2 25:25

Oh, that's, nice Nice.

Life as a Three-Act Play

Speaker 1 25:28

Here's one. Unraveled Soul says in the 90s and early aughts of CCM, labels dropped people for getting pregnant outside of marriage and people being gay. I understand both sides, but we are not here to judge. Oh, this is about the Michael Tate stuff.

Speaker 2 25:47

We're all human.

Speaker 1 25:48

I agree with Drew on the Tate thing. He should definitely have consequences. I do not like all the judgment of the whole industry. So sad for all involved for a time when people need to come together and love like Jesus, Fair but compassionate. Also, 30 minutes is too short. Amanda Steed says Uncle Jerem, you're looking good.

Speaker 2 26:14

Aw Manders.

Speaker 1 26:15

Thank you, amanda. I've missed y'all on the podcast. Glad you're back. New podcast name Butt Lipoma.

Speaker 2 26:23

Butt Lipoma, butt Lipoma, there we go, you know what that's an old friend when she remembers. She knows about my butt lipoma. She was there when I think did we talk about it, though I think we talked about my lump.

Speaker 1 26:32

On here.

Speaker 2 26:33

Didn't we. I don't know but I mean, you got it in california no, no, no, I got it in africa. It started in africa. I went to the doctor for it.

Speaker 1 26:41

You've had that lump in your butt since africa. Yes, you almost don't want to get it cut out now.

Speaker 2 26:47

It's like your twin no, it hurts, though it doesn't hurt all the time, but if I drive for a long time it hurts is it just feel like you're sitting on a golf ball or something? It kind of just feels uncomfortable, like it yeah okay, um sore.

Speaker 1 27:02

It just makes me feel sore we said that we were going to address the michael tate thing did we? We said that we said that in the podcast before the one that we lost didn't drew.

Speaker 2 27:11

Well, the one that got erased, drew, saw, drew, was like. I'm on my way here.

Speaker 1 27:15

I saw, saw him yes, which really.

Speaker 2 27:18

That's crazy. What's weird is I. I would think he would be far, far away from here.

Speaker 1 27:22

I have a lot of music business clients obviously.

Speaker 2 27:26

Obviously.

Speaker 1 27:29

So Michael Tate's stuff has come up in probably all of them. They all want to process it a little bit and with me they can be honest, safe space you know, vent, which we talked about venting being good, but what's weird is I can't think of another CCM artist that I know less than I know the Newsboys. You know it's weird. We have no contact with newsboys.

Speaker 2 28:01

We played some festivals with them, but we never talked to them.

Speaker 1 28:05

Yeah, you know, I mean.

Speaker 2 28:06

I think that drummer guy I've had most contact with.

Speaker 1 28:09

Yeah, duncan.

Speaker 2 28:10

Yeah, but I don't really know him.

Speaker 1 28:11

I've just I mean, have we ever even met Mike Tate?

Speaker 2 28:14

Yeah, probably.

Speaker 1 28:15

Okay.

Speaker 2 28:16

Yeah, I mean I'm here and there, but I mean not really. And the thing is everybody's like. Everybody knew, Nobody knew. Yeah, I didn't know, we knew he was probably gay because he's, you know, but nobody was going to out him, but being gay is legal. And nobody was going to out him. Everybody's like why didn't? It was an industry secret. Why didn't anyone? I'm like, because it's not our story to tell.

Speaker 1 28:41

I imagine a lot of people in the industry don't care.

Speaker 2 28:48

It's his story to tell we're not going to go. Hey, guess what to some? I don't know it's just dumb.

Speaker 1 28:50

But the reason I wanted to read the unraveled soul comment is because she used the word consequences. I've been, and tell me what you think about this I've been using, I've been trying to shift my language a little bit from, you know, consequences punishment to something that's more just, sort of benign. It's results.

Speaker 2 29:17

Okay, that's fine, but consequences and punishment are two different things.

Speaker 1 29:21

They are. But I think when you're raising your kids and you know they're going to make a bad choice, you say something like well, that's going to have consequences.

Speaker 2 29:29

Well, that's fine, but there's a. I mean, it's just that's teaching them that there's a. I mean I think that we tried to raise our kids with natural consequences of you make that choice. Yeah, you're going to have. You know, there's going to be a natural consequence to that Right Rather than us going. We're going to give you a consequence, Right.

Speaker 1 29:47

And we didn't do that.

Speaker 2 29:48

We tried to do natural consequences Right.

Speaker 1 29:51

Yeah, and that's kind of what I think I'm talking about is like Results is the same thing. As a consequence, I guess, I guess, but results okay. So here's what I mean like if, if, if something happens positive, you don't go, well, that has positive consequences. You know what I mean you don't think so I don't. I think consequences has a negative it probably does have a negative because it's been made that way.

Speaker 2 30:16

You know, if I it's just a natural thing that happens, so it is like a result, right, but I feel like oh nice dance move I.

Speaker 1 30:26

I feel like results are just a really good way to help people understand the way the world works.

Speaker 2 30:35

Like you. Honey, you can use results. Thank you, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 30:40

Okay, a couple more comments.

Speaker 2 30:43

All right.

Speaker 1 30:44

Trevor says he's glad the podcast is back. Other podcasts just don't stack up, so feel free to make your episodes a minimum of an hour.

Speaker 2 30:53

That's so sweet.

Speaker 1 30:54

Listening in my downtime made me think of downtime with the divelers.

Speaker 2 30:57

Oh, okay, kind of so sweet. Listening in my downtime made me think of Downtime with the Divers. Oh, okay, kind of like that Downtime, downtime's good.

Speaker 1 31:01

Downtime's kind of cool, I like.

Speaker 2 31:02

Unraveled Soul.

Speaker 1 31:04

I do too, but that's actually her Unraveled Soul is kind of nice, isn't it?

Speaker 2 31:09

Yeah, it's a nice. I like it. I just like that. I like that for a title of a book.

Speaker 1 31:17

I sometimes, oh, because I sometimes have the humor of a 12-year-old. I also thought Drew and the Dibblers otherwise known as Double D.

Speaker 2 31:27

Calling back to a conversation we just had, so what happens when the letters are doubled?

Speaker 1 31:31

Is that like? I don't know I honestly don't know, what that means.

Speaker 2 31:36

Do you go through the? I mean, I don't think so can there be a size like m I don't know. I've heard of like h and g, h. I think I've heard of like g, at least an h cup I think that would be like a shovel that's like back pain that's that just. They ought to just call that back pain when you get to a a certain thing. It's just like oh, your back's going to hurt.

Speaker 1 31:57

Yeah, one thing I'd love to hear y'all is y'all's perspective on should non-Christians make Christian music.

Speaker 2 32:07

Oh, that's such a weird Remember we talked about this. Why would they want to?

Speaker 1 32:12

Well, I mean for the money, I guess.

Speaker 2 32:15

The crossover, the possible crossover, yeah.

Speaker 1 32:19

I mean, look, I can see growing up, singing in church, whatever, and being sort of Christian adjacent. It never really. I can kind of see it. I feel like we've traveled with a couple of people that we've been like hey, is this real for them?

Speaker 2 32:36

We've been in some churches. We have been, we're the preacher I'm like I'm not sure he's a Christian. Oh my gosh, not going to name any names, remember that Christian school we played in Florida. Oh my gosh, I don't think. I think I was running sound. I want to say it's called University Christian or something I'm not sure you should call it out.

Speaker 1 32:53

So we played a and this wasn't uncommon for us.

Speaker 2 32:56

But there are these big Christian schools that have oh, are you talking about the one in Jacksonville?

Speaker 1 33:01

Yeah, they have chapels. You remember they would have us come in and play chapel, oh my gosh it was so horrible and we'd come in and they would give us the hour to do a show during chapel, to do like a show during chapel. But this one particular morning we roll in there at about nine o'clock and they're like hey, we're going to do a couple of ice warmer games and we're just going to turn it over to you, and one of the teachers gets up and goes okay, everybody stand up.

Speaker 2 33:28

Wait a minute. I was running sound at this point.

Speaker 1 33:30

You were. It was four guys, yes, four guys. Okay, so he stands up and he says all right, we're gonna play the sit down game. Sit down, if you were born before. Whenever, sit down. If you have blue eyes, sit down. Remember this. Yes, you do remember, right? Yes, because this is gonna sound like a made-up story. It was crazy, so he does like four or five categories.

Speaker 2 33:51

That are just normal.

Speaker 1 33:52

And then he goes sit down if you've had your first kiss. Sit down if you've ever dreamed of kissing the same sex. Sit down if you've ever worn the opposite sex's underwear.

Speaker 2 34:06

I don't remember that. I remember it getting weird. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I remember it being very out of control and control.

Speaker 1 34:13

And then, of course, he gets to like three people standing and everybody's looking around and he goes now.

Speaker 2 34:17

Please welcome ffh thanks buddy oh my gosh yeah it was like it, yeah, and it was a christian school. We were there for a chapel I know and you're talking back in the day too, where you didn't talk about that stuff.

Speaker 1 34:34

Which that comment is what led me to that there are people who are church-adjacent Wait time out and then afterwards it was like a crazy show.

Speaker 2 34:44

The kids were insane.

Speaker 1 34:45

They were, they were into it.

Speaker 2 34:46

They were into it, but they were mean. Some of them were mean I don't know, it was just weird.

Speaker 1 34:54

Because them were me. I don't, it was just weird Cause it was at the time, it was like oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 34:56

So the, so the, the, the principal. It wasn't the principal who is?

Speaker 1 34:58

also the pastor.

Speaker 2 34:59

Yes, he old old man.

Speaker 1 35:01

He comes to me and he goes. Hey, can I talk to you guys back in the hallway for a second?

Speaker 2 35:05

And we were like, oh good, he's going to be like. I'm so sorry about that.

Speaker 1 35:08

And so we're like, yeah, hang second, let me get, let me get the band. And so he wanted to talk to us all. So we get back in the stairwell and he looks at us and he goes guys, there's something I want to tell you. And we're like, okay, he goes listen, you're in florida. You guys are from the northeast, wear sunscreen. Totally, oh my god, that was the craziest.

Speaker 1 35:35

We gotta have brian on here brian smith I wonder if he'd do it I I think I asked him already and he didn't want to do it I could see him sitting here ringing, you know we need to get brian and michael. We need to do oh that would be hilarious. Yeah, I wonder if michael's ever in town uh, I just talked to him, or we we texted back and forth cause his. He released a Christmas song last year.

Speaker 2 35:57

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 35:59

What was that called? Come ye unfaithful.

Speaker 2 36:03

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 36:03

It's a good song, and so he's re-releasing it this year with a special guest, and I'm not allowed to say who it is.

Speaker 2 36:11

Bruh.

Speaker 1 36:11

I was about to say it, but then I thought you can tell me?

Speaker 2 36:14

Can you tell me later? Yeah, I can tell you later. Okay, sorry, sorry, jana.

Speaker 1 36:18

Jeremy Foburg One person watching Jeremy Foburg says hi there, my first name is also Jeremy with an O.

Speaker 2 36:25

Stop it.

Speaker 1 36:26

I came across your account while Googling my own name. Hi Jeremy. Hi Jeremy, how cool is that.

Speaker 2 36:32

There's probably like how many of you are there, I wonder Whose parents were like. High when they when they named you.

Speaker 1 36:40

You think mom and dad were high?

Speaker 2 36:41

Something.

Speaker 1 36:42

I guarantee your mom wasn't high.

Speaker 2 36:43

But I'm pretty sure your dad probably was.

Speaker 1 36:45

Yeah, I think so, I mean, I think dad.

Speaker 2 36:49

Well, anyway, we don't need to.

Speaker 1 36:50

Yeah, I mean, I think.

Speaker 2 36:51

He could have been. Dad was a partaker, right, he was an Well anyway, we don't need to.

Speaker 1 36:53

Yeah, I mean, I think he could have been. Dad was a partaker, right.

Speaker 2 36:57

He was an early adapter Doctor.

Speaker 1 36:59

He was an early adapter.

Speaker 2 37:02

He was an early adopter.

Speaker 1 37:04

So just to recap something that I went over last week, this is why the Second Act, uh title, is in here. Um, and you know I have I mean I've done this babe a little bit with you, but I this is probably the most helpful metaphor that I have used with clients over the past year um, and I thought you know, I thought that I might share it on the podcast here, because if it's helpful for clients, maybe it's helpful for listeners. So it's basically a master metaphor. Is she getting down?

Speaker 2 37:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 37:47

Okay, and metaphors are good. Jesus talked in parables and stories and metaphors. Metaphors are good because it's almost like whiteboarding your life, like you get it outside of you and you've got to stick it up on the wall and go. Okay, here's where I think it is.

Speaker 2 38:02

That's what a metaphor is.

Speaker 1 38:03

Well, that's how I use them.

Speaker 2 38:05

Oh, because it's like pictures.

Speaker 1 38:06

Well, yeah, and it kind of gets you outside of your story.

Speaker 2 38:15

And then you can see it. Yeah, I don't feel like that's a metaphor but okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 38:17

Okay, doesn't matter. I digress, there's a good name I digress jeremy interrupted again. Um, so you know, one of the things that separates us from the rest of the mammals with the exception of, possibly, dolphins is that we are narrative based.

Speaker 2 38:38

So when humans Dolphins are narrative based.

Speaker 1 38:42

So the latest research is they're saying that dolphins may actually have a story that they're living out. What? How do they figure this out?

Speaker 2 38:51

Yeah, how do they know? How do they know? But what like? They have love stories.

Speaker 1 38:55

Yes, what, and. And they might not just remember where the food is, but they might have memories.

Speaker 2 39:03

Crazy yeah.

Speaker 1 39:04

Dolphins are crazy and that, and that would include orcas too.

Speaker 2 39:08

Oh, I believe that about orcas. It's hard for me to believe about dolphins, for some reason.

Speaker 1 39:11

Isn't it crazy that there's never been an orca attack on humans? I know.

Speaker 2 39:17

In the wild and they're called killer whales.

Speaker 1 39:19

Well, they are very, very killer-y Well except for that one grumpy one he did In the wild. No, no, well, no, wasn't he at SeaWorld? What was that guy's?

Speaker 2 39:28

name. Oh no, A lot of them have killed people in SeaWorld.

Speaker 1 39:30

Oh, they have.

Speaker 2 39:31

I think there's been a lot of those captive ones.

Speaker 1 39:33

But there was that one specific one that was I don't remember.

Speaker 2 39:36

He had an anger problem. I think it was a girl.

Speaker 1 39:39

No, it was like Sudoku or something.

Speaker 2 39:42

Are you talking about Shamu?

Speaker 1 39:44

No, not Shamu, Come on, that's. We watched. It's Blackfish, remember. We watched the whole thing about him.

Speaker 2 39:52

No, I know, but I don't remember his name. The only whale I know its name is Shamu. I don't know Sudoku.

Speaker 1 39:58

And Wally or Willie. Well, I know, but he's not real, but anyway Happen to be watching, picture your life, think of your life as one big giant movie, or play with three, possibly four acts.

Speaker 2 40:27

My goodness, that's a lot of acts.

Speaker 1 40:28

It is.

Speaker 2 40:29

That's a very long play. So, act one which is Well, your act. You'll have lots of them because you're gonna live old, apparently correct.

Speaker 1 40:37

So act one is from the time you're born to roughly 2324 for girls, 25 for guys. That's act one, that's when 25 is actually when we reach adulthood.

Speaker 2 40:53

Because our brains are developed.

Speaker 1 40:54

Yeah, so you and I we're married, I mean, we're still children.

Speaker 2 40:58

Oh my gosh, our brains didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 1 41:02

And this is the spring of life, this is the warrior phase. See, this is how all these metaphors overlap, so you can put the hero's journey right over top of this. So, from you know, say, birth till 25, that's act one. And act one is establishing the plot right. This is your origin story, it's where you're from, it's who your parents are. This is your backstory. Act two is 25 through roughly 50.

Speaker 2 41:33

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 41:34

Act two is big Act two is 25 years.

Speaker 2 41:37

I guess it's about right.

Speaker 1 41:38

Act two is the queen or king phase. You go from warrioring to adminning. You have your kids, you buy your house, you build your wealth.

Speaker 2 41:51

You lose your wealth.

Speaker 1 41:52

In act 2, you kind of move to the city that you're going to establish, settle, and so Act 1 is to roughly 25, and from Act 1 to Act 2, you move, you kind of put down the sword and you pick up a clipboard and Act 2 is summer. It's where you're adminning, you're pulling weeds for a lot of people. In act two they start to get a little bored. This is when people start going. Oh, I thought it was going to be one thing do you think that it's actually this?

Pregnancy Scares and Vasectomy Plans

Speaker 2 42:23

they get to the end of act two and are like that's the midlife crisis no, I think you have your midlife crisis in act two really I think the midlife crisis.

Speaker 1 42:33

Well, I mean, this is. I think I told this story on here before, but, um, you remember when we were hanging out with mike glenn a lot yeah, because we had started kairos and mike and I were talking probably weekly, we were playing golf together and and uh, I remember calling him I miss mike, mike Glenn. Yeah, he was great. I remember calling Mike. He's not dead.

Speaker 2 42:55

I know we used to never see him yeah.

Speaker 1 42:56

I remember calling Mike I was probably Hutch, was probably three, four years old I'm mid-30s at this point and I remember just telling him how I was feeling this like underneath angst, like this, ah, what is like? And I mean, we were playing tons of music, we were making a lot of money, we were, you know, this is back in the phase when, you know, casting Crowns and Mercy and Me were opening up for us.

Speaker 2 43:24

So career was good, career was good Family was good.

Speaker 1 43:28

I had, you know, a beautiful family. You know you were busier than me, obviously, because you were momming it. But I remember calling Mike and just going man, I don't know what's going on, I'm unsettled. And he goes oh, jeremy, you're in summer. I was like what do you mean? He said you're in summer, and summer is when you're just keeping stuff alive. You're pulling weeds, you're clearing brush.

Speaker 2 43:55

You're keeping stuff alive, you're pulling weeds, you're clearing brush, you're mowing the grass, you're you know it's just like it's um upkeep. It's upkeep.

Speaker 1 43:59

It's just upkeep, trying to keep everything rolling yes, and job, your family, you're just keeping it going yeah, and I think what he was alluding to is that people think that they think this act to life, that this is what they've been striving for. And in act two, you realize, oh, it's not as good as I thought right like you're always thinking well, if I was the boss, I would do this right if I was the president, I would do this, if you know. And then you get there and you're like, oh, this isn't as easy as I thought it was.

Speaker 1 44:33

This is King David on the roof of the palace, looking out over and just thinking I wish I could be back on the battlefield. So that's act two. That's summer.

Speaker 2 44:46

Okay.

Speaker 1 44:46

Act three is roughly again. These numbers are roughly 50 to 75. Okay, this is the autumn of life. Your kids are grown, the nest becomes emptier. You rediscover a little bit of what life was like when you got to make your own decisions. Act three your 70s are your most productive decade. And your 70s are your most productive decade and your 70s are your happiest decade.

Speaker 2 45:17

Okay.

Speaker 1 45:18

And this is like longitudinal studies. I just read another study that talked about that being the happiest Act. Three is when you actually start to harvest.

Speaker 2 45:33

Do you or do you have to go back a little bit to Warrior and go? Okay, what am I doing?

Speaker 1 45:37

Well.

Speaker 2 45:38

Like what am I working towards?

Speaker 1 45:39

Sure, but in this metaphor, the act three is the gathering. You have your family around your table, your traditions have been established. It's a sweet autumn and this is where the lover comes out. This is the lover phase, where you've acquired a lot of knowledge, right?

Speaker 2 46:02

So it's warrior. What's the second one?

Speaker 1 46:04

Warrior king lover.

Speaker 2 46:05

Oh, king is second.

Speaker 1 46:06

Yeah, you've acquired a lot of knowledge, but now you're coupling it with experience, and there's even a different language to autumn it's more loving and flowing, and you know it is the harvest celebration time, and then some people get an act four, and that would be winter.

Speaker 2 46:30

And that would be you.

Speaker 1 46:30

I'm getting an act four because I'm going to live to 100. And you are too, because you told me you're living to 110.

Speaker 2 46:35

20.

Speaker 1 46:36

20. I don't know, I think that would make you the oldest person in the world.

Speaker 2 46:41

No, you can live to 120.

Speaker 1 46:42

But is anybody?

Speaker 2 46:43

Yeah, people do it.

Speaker 1 46:45

Okay, I mean I just saw a picture of the oldest person in the world.

Speaker 2 46:56

She's 117. That's what I'm saying. Okay so, but act four.

Speaker 1 46:58

I better get some stuff in order if I'm planning to do that. Yeah, I didn't mean to agree with that.

Speaker 2 47:01

That's true.

Speaker 1 47:02

Act four is the winter of life, but it's a sweet winter. It's where you stay put and people come to you. They come to you for your sage wisdom.

Speaker 2 47:16

Oh dear.

Speaker 1 47:16

God, you've been through all of life and you've got years worth of memories to just sit and process and you're able to process those memories with people. And Act 4, the winter is a sweet. Now. Not everybody gets a winter, you know, dad, didn't he?

Speaker 2 47:33

died in his autumn in his Act 3.

Speaker 1 47:33

Well, not everybody gets a winter. You know, dad didn't? He died in his autumn. In his act three. Well, my papa got a winter. You know, John and Pearl, they got winters, Didn't they?

Speaker 2 47:43

Yeah, they did. Were they in their 90s when they died? They did. But what do you do with people who don't really have sage bush?

Speaker 1 47:50

Well, but the thing is, I think you'd be surprised at. You know they may not be able to unpack the deep spiritual meanings of things, but you're, they did have a lot. They had some sort of wisdom they had all this life experience right. So, for whatever reason I've got, probably half of my clients right now are millennials and they're right in that. Act two Right. And they've got little kids. Some of them have got three, four. We met a couple with 10 kids last weekend and the act two living is exhausting.

Speaker 2 48:29

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 48:30

I mean, it takes the most out of you. Kings and queens don't sleep tight because they're worrying about the kingdom Warriors. They're tired, they lay down and go to sleep. People in Act 3, they lay down and go to sleep. But Act 2 living is exhausting. You know, you and I have those friends Cupkeep. Yeah, you and I told those friends the other day this is the hardest it's ever going to be and they have two little kids and I really mean that. I mean, I think.

Speaker 2 48:58

I do too. I think little kids is the hardest yeah.

Speaker 1 49:01

Well, and there's.

Speaker 2 49:04

But it's also the best, is it, though? I mean, you have the best memories of that. I agree with teenagers, teenagers is the best. I miss my babies, I miss my little kids.

Speaker 1 49:17

Yeah, you know, I was talking to Shaylee the other day and she, she looks at pictures and gets real sentimental. Um, like you did and do I. I don't know that. That's as much a guy thing.

Speaker 2 49:33

Maybe not.

Speaker 1 49:34

Like I walk into the room and you're watching the screensaver, which is just our kids' picture, and you're sitting there bawling.

Speaker 2 49:41

Wow, and I'm going. Why are you?

Speaker 1 49:43

doing this to yourself.

Speaker 2 49:45

It's very sad. I don't know. I miss them.

Speaker 1 49:49

Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 49:51

I just feel like I miss those little personalities.

Speaker 1 49:55

Well, me too.

Speaker 2 49:56

And when they were nice to us. They're nice to everybody else.

Speaker 1 50:02

Yeah, isn't that weird. You know you talk to another parent and they'll be like your kids when they come over.

Speaker 2 50:07

They're the best and we go really them, because they're not the best to us.

Speaker 1 50:12

But ours kind of are.

Speaker 2 50:14

They're great, but they're kind of crabby to us. They are grumpy. They're grumpy with us, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 50:21

So, anyways, this master metaphor has helped. I mean, I really think it's helping people and it can be overlaid with the hero's journey. The warrior, king lover sage the seasons, you know, spring, summer, autumn, winter, and I think that if you can just rehearse that, rehearse those seasons and start to let it kind of infuse your life, I think it can make things easier.

Speaker 2 50:54

Yeah, I mean, my hard thing is our second act was so screwed up that it makes me sad. You know what I mean. Yeah, but I— we had so much loss in our second act, I think if you were able to talk to the amount of people that I do.

Speaker 1 51:09

The second act is just hard. To talk to the amount of people that I do. The second act is just hard.

Speaker 2 51:17

What I'm saying is people come out of the second act and they have built everything and I feel like we lost everything in the second act.

Speaker 1 51:23

Well, but we also gained it back. I mean, I don't mean to argue with you, our second act really was turbulent, but I mean.

Speaker 2 51:34

She's down there crying, I know.

Speaker 1 51:36

Not Sadie.

Speaker 2 51:38

The dog.

Speaker 1 51:48

But one thing I've noticed in this is that the transitions between are hard. You know, transitioning between act one and act two is hard because you go from this warrior phase to all of a sudden responsibility.

Speaker 2 51:57

Yeah, that was hard, that was really hard for me.

Speaker 1 52:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:01

I had a really hard time going from that to yeah.

Speaker 1 52:05

Yeah, each of those transitions are defined by like a certain movement.

Speaker 2 52:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1 52:12

Like the movement from Act one to act two is responsibility.

Speaker 2 52:16

Yeah, I did not like that.

Speaker 1 52:17

The movement from act two to act three from summer to autumn is letting go, Because there are a lot of dreams that you had in the warrior and king phase in act one and act two, that going into act three you realize, oh, that's probably not going to happen.

Speaker 2 52:37

Oh yeah, you know what I mean, I guess.

Speaker 1 52:39

Like I always thought that I would get married, or I always thought that I would have.

Speaker 2 52:45

Well, like yeah, I always thought I would have kids. Let's say yeah. I mean, it really is done at that point.

Speaker 1 52:52

Yeah, by 50.

Speaker 2 52:54

Yeah Around 50.

Speaker 1 52:56

Yeah Around then yeah, yeah, which we know, now we are done. You told me last week yes, it's time. Which I. Why didn't you tell me you were taking pregnancy tests?

Speaker 2 53:09

Because you get too excited about it, and I would not be excited about that, babe.

Speaker 1 53:13

I would not have been excited about this yeah well, I mean, I probably would have.

Speaker 2 53:17

It's easy for you to look back and say that, but no.

Speaker 1 53:19

Wouldn't we both have kind of silver lining them Be like oh yeah, but it's going to be great.

Speaker 2 53:23

I mean, of course you have to, but I would not have been excited.

Speaker 1 53:29

So Jennifer was for about a week before bed she was like looking in the mirror and going gosh, I look pregnant. Why is my stomach?

Speaker 2 53:38

popping out. Well, because I've gained like five pounds in the past two months without changing anything.

Speaker 1 53:45

But I didn't pay that much attention to it because if you're bloated or something, you'll do that with your shirt and go look, I look pregnant. But come to find out, Mr, Period never came.

Speaker 2 53:57

Okay, this is way too much.

Speaker 1 54:00

Well, I'm just saying we should name this way too much. Way too much. Way too much.

Speaker 2 54:06

We're a lot, we're a lot, but let's not, I don't want to Really.

Speaker 1 54:12

Talk about this. We don't have to talk about it, but I mean, we had a pregnancy scare.

Speaker 2 54:16

I was not scared. I needed to go get an x-ray because my back is out.

Speaker 1 54:20

Okay.

Speaker 2 54:20

And I was like, if there is any chance that I would be pregnant, I can't get a because it's my low back. I can't get an x-ray on that area. That was my only thought.

Speaker 1 54:30

Well, I have to say though, I wasn't scared. I didn't really think I was. The times you have been pregnant, you've not seen it coming. Remember, in Africa, you went to the doctor for the flu.

Speaker 2 54:39

Right, there's a really cool story with Africa.

Speaker 1 54:42

Yeah, he came. Jennifer got in the car. I dropped her off to the doctor she was going to get because we were coming home in about a week.

Speaker 2 54:49

I had a really bad flu. I had a high fever and was really sick.

Speaker 1 54:54

And you had a great line. Did you practice that?

Speaker 2 54:57

I don't remember. She picked me up and I said well, he's not worried about the fever. No, you said he's not worried about me, but he's worried about the baby.

Speaker 1 55:05

Yes, yeah, as you said. You said, well, I have the flu, but the doctor's more worried about the baby.

Speaker 2 55:10

I say he's not worried about me, he's worried about the baby. Yeah.

Speaker 1 55:13

And then, when he told me I was, pregnant, I swear.

Speaker 2 55:16

My fever broke because I all of a sudden started pouring sweat. It was crazy. You know I had that happen last year.

Speaker 1 55:23

I'd never had it happen before. But I had the flu super bad last year and Brian sent me a letter from the IRS for taxes that I didn't know I hadn't paid. And it came across as a PDF and I clicked on it and the top of it said summons oh God. I was like, and I mean all of a sudden, I was just drenched in sweat.

Speaker 2 55:47

Isn't that wild. Yeah, oh gosh, it was an awful feeling. Yeah, that's a that would be terrifying.

Speaker 1 55:53

Well, yeah, and then it turned out to be kind of a nothing burger, but just what, I see it looked so official.

Speaker 2 55:57

It's so scary.

Music Plans and Closing Thoughts

Speaker 1 55:58

Yeah, so anyways, yeah, I think it would take a while for me to be excited about it. It would have to be like we go to the doctor, everything's fine, everything's looking good.

Speaker 2 56:11

Yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 56:11

Somebody starts, starts a go fund me for us. But I mean in my mind, I'm like what will we tell our parents like they're gonna think we're stupid.

Speaker 2 56:23

You know what I mean, right?

Speaker 1 56:24

right, but we are allowed well, I don't want to talk. So anyways, here's what I'm thinking I need I don't don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 56:31

Jennifer has told me that I need a vasectomy, and so well because our my friend and I used to go to the same OB and he told her that he has more accidental pregnancies of women who are going through perimenopause, because it's so, you're so, their cycle is crazy.

Speaker 1 56:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 56:54

And he has more accidental pregnancies of those women than he does of young girls.

Speaker 1 56:59

Well, that's crazy, it's crazy. Yeah, what do they do? So I was like holy moly, they have them.

Speaker 2 57:04

Well, yeah, you just have these surprise babies.

Speaker 1 57:06

What were you so worried about, like the health of the baby or just us being old?

Speaker 2 57:10

Just being old and being exhausted and trying to raise a toddler and golly, no, thank you.

Speaker 1 57:17

Same, Okay. So here's what I'm thinking. We we have health insurance, but it's not great.

Speaker 2 57:23

No, it's so bad. I called him yesterday about something.

Speaker 1 57:27

So, if there's any, it's, it's insane. Is this a urologist? Is that who I would?

Speaker 2 57:33

I don't know who does he see for that? Yeah, if there's a, I'm sure we can Google that. If there's a vasectomy, yeah, if there's a person out there who does them.

Speaker 1 57:42

If there's a testicle doctor or anybody that's just done it from YouTube tutorial. Whatever I'm, in but here's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 2 57:49

I want to do a destined, a destination vasectomy okay like I'm thinking, go down to florida st john, yeah, wherever to st john, st john I don't know caribbean, I don't want to go to an island.

Speaker 1 58:05

I don't want to have my vasectomy in an island. That feels weird does it oh, I mean I guess they do it, but I'm thinking somewhere down on the Gulf of America, go down there get my vasectomy and then just let it be for a day.

Speaker 2 58:21

Oh, it must be nice.

Speaker 1 58:24

Well, hey, you want to do a destination tied tubes thing.

Speaker 2 58:27

I think they laser your tubes now. I don't think they tie them.

Speaker 1 58:32

Is it like through your skin?

Speaker 2 58:34

I don't know, I would get that done because I think it lowers your risk of ovarian cancer by a lot.

Speaker 1 58:42

Well, do you want to do it?

Speaker 2 58:43

I don't know we got to find out what's cheaper. We don't both need to do it, no, but our insurance is crap. Here's the thing. It's absolutely crap.

Speaker 1 58:55

I feel like I'm kind of late to the game. I feel like a vasectomy is an act, two. Thing.

Speaker 2 59:00

Absolutely yeah, you're way late for a vasectomy.

Speaker 1 59:03

Right. I mean, who knows if I'm even got swimmers? Do you know what I mean? If you're even viable, I wonder if they ought to test that first.

Speaker 2 59:11

No, okay, I don't want to talk about this.

Speaker 1 59:15

Everybody's doing it, except us.

Speaker 2 59:17

Everybody's doing it. Why? Why are we talking about it? But everybody talks about this, okay.

Speaker 1 59:23

Okay, so act one, act two, act three, act four. You know write to me and tell me what you're experiencing in these different acts. Yeah, tell me what has defined these acts for you.

Speaker 2 59:37

So do you think Act 3 is kind of retirement?

Speaker 1 59:41

No, no, yeah. Well, actually retirement is a fairly new concept.

Speaker 2 59:46

Do you know that? And I've never told you this, and you're going to be mad at me when I tell you Should we push pause? Well, if you're on here, you can't be too mad at me, don't?

Speaker 1 1:00:01

disclose something to me on here.

Speaker 2 1:00:03

The Lord told me something in California that I never told you. And so now you're telling the world. Well, because I didn't want to do what the Lord told me to do.

Speaker 1 1:00:09

What was it?

Speaker 2 1:00:10

Isn't that terrible scared now, well, we were. We were, we bought our property and we're working towards a farm and the lord told me it's not time to retire to the farm babe but I wanted a farm and we weren't going to retire babe, why didn't you just say that?

Speaker 1 1:00:33

I can't believe you're saying that now. Are you saying that now so that I can't overreact?

Speaker 2 1:00:36

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 1:00:39

Okay, everybody, we will see you next week.

Speaker 2 1:00:43

I'm not doing that now so you don't overreact. I'm doing it now just because I came up and so it's not time to retire. We've still got stuff to do.

Speaker 1 1:00:51

Well.

Speaker 2 1:00:52

I don't plan to retire.

Speaker 1 1:00:56

Like do you want to retire? Like what is what is retirement?

Speaker 2 1:00:57

I want to be doing something that I love and not retire right now. Working at this job that isn't doesn't feed my soul really at all. No, yeah, I want to retire from that.

Speaker 1 1:01:08

But it feeds your family.

Speaker 2 1:01:10

Right. So no, if you're just doing it for that, yes, I would like to retire. You know what I'm saying, but if I'm doing something that is not sucking out my soul, then no, I don't want to retire.

Speaker 1 1:01:28

Does that make sense? I know, but I guess it does. I just feel like that's such like elevated line. I didn't realize your soul was being sucked out.

Speaker 2 1:01:35

I know I'm saying that that is very I mean. I know it's. What I'm saying is If you're doing something that is feeding you and you love it then no, I don't want to retire. But if it's just a job, then yeah, I'd want to retire.

Speaker 1 1:01:52

Yeah, does that make sense? Like there's a difference? I think what you're saying is you want to have the freedom to move on from stuff you don't want to do.

Speaker 2 1:02:00

Yeah, but I'm saying when you say, do you want to retire?

Speaker 1 1:02:05

I just can't see us, you know, retiring to a trailer home in Phoenix with all the old people.

Speaker 2 1:02:12

Well, definitely not doing that.

Speaker 1 1:02:15

Or the villages.

Speaker 2 1:02:16

No.

Speaker 1 1:02:17

And shout out to our village listeners.

Speaker 2 1:02:19

I love going and visiting there with mom, but I but if you live in the villages it's a fun community probably and you can still have a job. But that's a job Like I want to have. I want to be doing something that feels bigger than just a job. Well, I feel like but I don't know what to do. You've done that your whole life but I don't know what to do now. I need I need second act. I need third act counseling. Well, you probably need my second act was all raising kids.

Speaker 1 1:02:51

It's funny. I've been talking to both of our kids about this because they're you know, hutch is definitely in transition, transitioning from act one to act two, taking on responsibilities, adulting, and it's weird. In the past couple of weeks I've been explaining to them what is that proverb Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desire. I feel like it's like a breathing. So you ask the Lord, what do you want me to delight in? And then he kind of gives you that desire and then he makes it come true. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 1:03:28

So maybe in act three. You need to ask the Lord what would make you happy? Right, right, I guess I don't know You're the counselor. You're shaking.

Speaker 1 1:03:35

Stop shaking. I am the soul care guide.

Speaker 2 1:03:39

That, yes, you are that.

Speaker 1 1:03:41

I am that.

Speaker 2 1:03:41

What I'm saying is you need to help me figure it out because I don't know. You're a coach.

Speaker 1 1:03:48

All right. Well, I think the first thing we do is vasectomy. First things first.

Speaker 2 1:03:56

Or my tubes getting lasered. Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 1:03:58

We could flip a coin.

Speaker 2 1:04:00

Oh, they're both expensive, so we got to figure out which one's cheapest.

Speaker 1 1:04:04

If you have that information, folks, would you let us know what would be cheaper?

Speaker 2 1:04:09

Or if you're a doctor that does either of these things and you want to.

Speaker 1 1:04:12

Something about the tube. I feel like I could laser tubes.

Speaker 2 1:04:15

Do you think so? Maybe you could.

Speaker 1 1:04:17

I feel like you could do my vasectomy.

Speaker 2 1:04:19

I definitely could not.

Speaker 1 1:04:22

Isn't it literally just snipping?

Speaker 2 1:04:24

I don't know. Should we watch a YouTube?

Speaker 1 1:04:27

I don't ever want to watch it with you. I don't think I want to watch a vasectomy with you.

Speaker 2 1:04:31

You definitely don't want to watch it. Before you do it, I feel like we're boring right now.

Speaker 1 1:04:36

I'm kind of jittery.

Speaker 2 1:04:37

Are you?

Speaker 1 1:04:37

Yeah, I took one of those Viva Zens, those little energy drinks. Why did you?

Speaker 2 1:04:40

do that.

Speaker 1 1:04:45

It kept you awake until two in the morning the other night. You took it in the morning. No, I took that in the afternoon.

Speaker 2 1:04:48

Why would you do that?

Speaker 1 1:04:49

Just now Because I wanted to bring some energy.

Speaker 2 1:04:51

Aviva. What is this?

Speaker 1 1:04:55

Okay, so I know that you're not into five-hour energy.

Speaker 2 1:05:00

It's beside the five-hour energy, so get the one next to it, it's beside the five-hour energy, where are we? Getting this At the gas station Twice daily. Yes, oh, I'm sure it's a healthy.

Speaker 1 1:05:09

Well, I tried to read the back. It's microscopic.

Speaker 2 1:05:12

Of course they do that on purpose. Well, I tried to read the back it's microscopic?

Speaker 1 1:05:15

Of course they do that on purpose it's plant-derived.

Speaker 2 1:05:17

Oh, sure it is. That's what it says, yeah, okay, and you believe it because it says it on the package.

Speaker 1 1:05:20

Hey, twice Daily is not going to sell me something. No, all right, drew, have fun editing this mess.

Speaker 2 1:05:33

We don't edit anything.

Speaker 1 1:05:34

Well, he's got to put show notes down.

Speaker 2 1:05:35

He doesn't do show notes Drusifer.

Speaker 1 1:05:39

So coming up this fall, season three, act three of the podcast we're going to do a name change. I'm kind of leaning toward Divelerville, Really.

Speaker 2 1:05:49

Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1 1:05:50

Or Jeremy Diler as a podcast.

Speaker 2 1:05:53

I like yeah.

Speaker 1 1:05:54

I like.

Speaker 2 1:05:55

Jeremy Interrupted.

Speaker 1 1:05:56

Okay. I really like that Let us know what names you like. Ryan and Jenna will be seeing you in a month or so. Yeah, playing some music, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:06:09

Back out there. Yeah, if you want us to play at your church, let us know. We'll be opening up for Hutch. Yeah, so we'll be opening up for hutch. Um, yeah, so we'll be back also.

Speaker 1 1:06:21

well, we can talk about that next time, go ahead, tell me the thing we're thinking about doing with music what are we thinking about? You know I, I don't know well, I don't want to say it. Oh, we're talking about the redo yeah, yes 25th anniversary of one of these days 30th well, it would be the 25th of it being real.

Speaker 2 1:06:38

I wrote one of these days 29 years ago oh, okay, so it would come out in the 30th yeah yeah, um yeah, so we're thinking about doing that.

Speaker 1 1:06:46

We thought it would be fun, maybe re-record one of these days and document it yeah and it, and then also maybe one new song I've been working on.

Speaker 2 1:06:55

Uh-oh.

Speaker 1 1:06:56

I got a new one.

Speaker 2 1:06:58

Cool.

Speaker 1 1:06:58

It's not about you.

Speaker 2 1:07:00

Good.