Grief and Conspiracies with Stephanie McBrayer

A single confession at a kitchen counter can flip a life. Stephanie McBrayer joins us to trace the fault lines of family—how a young mom’s near‑abortion, a church VHS, and a daughter yet to be born braided into a conviction that still lives in her bones. From there, we step into Nashville’s CCM hallways where Stephanie turned an interior design brain into A&R instincts, where album shoots became storytelling, and where Avalon’s Jody—her husband—shows how a voice means more when it tells the truth.

Then the conversation deepens. We walk through the day her stepdad collapsed at Vanderbilt while her mother awaited cancer surgery—two crises on two floors, one daughter signing the form to relieve brain pressure and then screaming in a stairwell. Gary survives with a brain injury that made him hilarious, tender, and often childlike; the family learns new rhythms of care, dignity, and patience. Not long after, Stephanie’s brother Wade goes missing, and the worst news arrives on a roadside. She brings us into the unscripted hours: the senior recital that still needed to be sung, the funeral moments that were both sacred and darkly funny because Wade would have laughed, and the nights when sleep evaporated and breathing felt like work. It’s grief without varnish—and community without clichés—as teenagers fill a kitchen with flowers, fold laundry, and tape courage onto mirrors.

We talk about surviving a business collapse during COVID by selling masks, the quiet wars with Lyme disease, heart procedures, and the brutal honesty of opioid and tramadol withdrawal. Stephanie doesn’t preach; she documents—what helped, what didn’t, and what she’d tell anyone facing the same road. And there’s hope that doesn’t flinch: her daughter, Sarah Clayton, charting a path in pre‑law and intelligence after seeing The Sound of Freedom, finding purpose on the far side of heartbreak.

If you’ve ever carried a secret, sat in an ICU, or tried to laugh on a day that didn’t deserve it, this conversation will meet you where you are. Listen, share with someone who needs courage for the next hard thing, and leave us a review with the moment that stayed with you most.

Transcript

Young Mom, Hidden Family Math

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My mom is really young because she had me really young. So how old was she? She had me at nineteen.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Mm-hmm. She got pregnant. She got pregnant when right out of high school and had to get married. Thus, the pro uh life advocacy because there's this the story of planned parenthood with all that, and I'm very lucky I'm alive.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

We're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

So anyway, all that to say that's don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Sorry, I'm not oh we're rolling. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Are you serious?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Oh my god. Oh my goodness. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Yeah. So how old is your mom now?

SPEAKER_01 0:38

So my mom is 71. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Well, that's what's your mom, Jeremy?

SPEAKER_04 0:43

69.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yeah. Yeah. They're babies. Mom's 16.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Think about, I mean, they're young to have us. I mean, well, she had turned 18 10 days before she had him. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 0:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Yep. I was in my high school play. Her high school play.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I don't think I was at my mom's proms, but I'm pretty sure I was. You might have been at that last one. I mean, I bet you were. I maybe so.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

I bet you were, and you and she didn't know it. Yeah. It could be. It could be. How long was how when did she find out she was pregnant?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I don't I don't know. I just remember I didn't find this out, honestly, till I was old and married. And I don't think I hadn't had I hadn't had Sarah Clayton yet, but she one day just decided to tell me the whole story. And now I was just sitting in her kitchen, like looking at Jody and kind of looking around at my family, going, When was somebody gonna tell me this? Isn't that interesting? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, it would have been I guess you just don't talk about stuff in your generation. I feel like didn't talk about anything. Did you just not ever do the math? No.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

That's the same with my family. We didn't ever do the math of my older sister. I did it. He did the math.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Immediately.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

You did it immediately. Oh, I thought it was with my with my family. Yeah. Yeah. He told my sister, he's like, you realize, you know, what was going on here? And she was like, no.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

Well, I I thought that she would have. I mean, it's her birthday and their anniversary. I thought she'd have done the math. I th I actually thought the family knew.

unknown 2:19

Oh.

Pro‑Life Roots and Planned Parenthood Story

Introducing Stephanie and Music Industry Years

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Like I was like, Oh, but you outed in front of the whole family? She was a honeymoon baby, is what we always Well, I so I thought I just knew that my mom and dad got married really young. And I just thought, oh, that's what they did back then. Yeah. I mean, I didn't even think about it. You didn't even and they didn't say married that long, unfortunately. I mean, you know, they didn't, they didn't I think I was probably two. So, um, but my when my dad tells a story, it's one of the when he when she called him. I mean, there's no way I can tell it the way he tells it. It's hysterical. But how I found out is that okay, this can I get political at all? I mean, it it's I'm bringing a person that's in politics into this, and this is absolutely so it was when Obama was running for president, and for some reason there was some big you know, scandal about a nurse from Chicago that was talking about partial birth abortions or something. And somehow I don't even know. I think it's just because Obama was from Chicago, right? Because none of us really knew anything about him. He just kind of came out of nowhere. So my mom is literally behind like I'm sitting at the the bar and my mom's on the other side of it, and she's like, well, because we started talking about I'd always been pro-life, like I'd talk about it, I talked about it in high school. Like no one had ever talked to me about abortions, but I my parent, so my mom and my stepdad, when I was really little, um, to backtrack a little bit, we went to uh Two Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville. And I remember one night they showed a video, and it was uh from uh a pastor, it was called Operation Rescue, and you know, they're on VHS tapes, and I was like, I need to take this to school. Everyone needs to see this. And my parents like, I don't think anyone's gonna let you bring that to school. I'm like, no, no, no. People need to see this. Like, this is what an abortion is, this is what this looks like. And so they actually showed an abortion. They showed an abortion, they talked about it very, you know, I mean, in detail. They they had videos of this pastor and his church, they would go and pray in front of abortion clinics, not do anything inappropriate, you know, not attack anybody or do anything. They literally just and then they get arrested. And so, but I thought if I take it to school and show kids they won't they won't have sex, they'll be so scared to get pregnant. So you had a whole plan. I had a whole plan about having people not have abortions because they're not gonna get pregnant because they're gonna see this. And so I would write poems about abortion. No one ever ever said a word to me. Isn't that interesting? I mean, that had a little huge effect on you. Yes, and so here I am, probably in my late 20s, and my whenever that was, and my mom says, Well, just so you know, um, I took I, you know, a friend of mine took me to Planned Parenthood to to have an abortion with you. Oh, everyone's just kind of sitting there, like, what? I I don't understand. And she she didn't tell me who, and and she said, Yes, I went in and you know, I was scared to death. I was 19 years old, and she said, I went in and they said that you were nothing, that you were just a piece of tissue, and it wouldn't be any big deal. And she goes, and she wasn't a Christian, so uh if like this is even more of a miracle, uh not to say, you know, Christians don't have abortions. I mean, it's you know, but she did not know the Lord at all. And so she said something just told me that's not true. I didn't believe it for one for one minute that that and I'm I want to say that she are that they knew I was a girl, so she was pretty far. I mean, uh it's somewhere where you would. I mean, I think when I found out Sarah Clayton was a girl, I mean it was pretty early. Right, but back then so I don't know. I I but she knew and she goes, I just don't believe them. I don't believe that you're not that you were nothing. And then she said it just they kept saying tissue and that it was nothing. And so I was like, Wow, I can't believe you walked out, and she goes, I just I got like sick. Like I thought, no, this is not true. I don't believe it. And so, and then I think that's probably when she left and called my dad. I was like, hey, just so you know this is what's going on. We're having a little girl, yeah. We're having a little girl. This is a big one. We're having a baby, and so anyway, I mean, I she's my hero for that. I mean, she didn't have I mean, she didn't have to have me. She I I understand her whole life was ahead of her, and but I say to this day, it wasn't for me, it was for Sarah Clayton. It has nothing, I I truly believe it had nothing to do with me. Personally, it was God needed me to be born, so Sarah Clayton would be born. That's she is pretty great. She's a pretty great kid. Yeah, yeah. She's pretty great.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Well, this is Stephanie McBrayer. Yeah, introduce her. She's a friend of mine, and we've known you. Gosh, you used to work at Provident. I didn't did we meet you at Provident? Okay, so she was the creative director at at Provident Records for you, I think you said eight years.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

About eight years. I started out as the I started out in AR and production of a package. Did you go to school for that? I went to interior design school. And how did you get into that?

SPEAKER_04 7:32

So stay right up on that mic if you know. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, stay in front of it. Um, so a friend of mine. Well, the weird thing is before I right before I met Jody, I went to a church called New Song. And the entire singles group of people that I knew, they were all on music. Every single one of them.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

I was like, I know a lot of stories from that time at Newsong.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Because you probably knew they were all at Benson.

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Yeah, because Scott Williams. And the Williamson, the Williams.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

They were all there. Yeah. Yeah, they were all there. Everyone worked at Benson, I feel like. Oh, how funny. I was the only one, I was an interior design. And uh Chad Dickerson at the time went to Newsong, and he was really he's still really good friends with the Williamsons. And so he had this availability for an AR assistant and production assistant. And I just got married to Jody, and I was finishing.

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Were you a fan of Avalon?

SPEAKER_01 8:26

No, no, no. I didn't go. No, Avalon, he had just moved to town when I met him.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Oh well, let me say this. Stephanie is married to Jody McBrier, who is an Avalon.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

The leader of Avalon.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

I mean, who has the voice of an angel?

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yes, let's just say.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

But he sounds like a girl, too. So no. He does sing like a girl. He does. I mean, he gets in a range that's out of control. Yeah, he does, but it's pretty much a leader.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

I mean, when we were out on the road and played some dates with them, like I watched everybody. You know, everybody, Jennifer and me watched, we loved it. But Jody, he's the one you watched. I mean, he's the one where you're like, oh, this is him and some other people.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yes, exactly. Stop it.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

That was Evelyn.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

They were to me, they were all of all four of them. I loved them all. I know. They're all great. Their voices together were no. And Jana, Jana's insane. Sure. Yeah. Her voice is insane. I mean, I think for a guy, I think it's not typical for a guy. I will say about Jody, as good as he is as a singer, I feel like what make sets Jody apart is his communication. Like you believe what he sings. Like, you know how someone can get up there and they have a beautiful voice, but it's just a beautiful voice. Right. Right? They don't have you in the palm of their hand, they don't draw you in. And from the first time I heard him sing, I felt like that from him. Like, wow, okay, that's that's different. Right. You're communicating the song. I feel I hang on almost every word, and I think that's what sets him apart. Yes, he's an amazing singer, but it's he's a feeler. Amazing. He's a feeler. Like And you've been married 26 years. It'll be 27 in March. We've been together for 30 years. Okay. We dated a long time. You did date a long time. We broke up a lot, but we dated a dated a long time. But that's why. It was really just because he was gone. When I met him, I had no idea who he I had no idea he sang, put it that way. And I had been introduced to other singers, and and well, I made nameless. And I and I dated a drummer right before this, and I he was gone all the time. And so I just my you know, my stepdad and my dad, they never really traveled. So I just wasn't I I thought I don't think I could be alone all the time and live like this this life is weird to me. Right. And and back then, I mean now it'd be so much easier because we have our cell phones and FaceTime, but we didn't have phones. Think about that. Yeah, that's no phones. You might have had a Blackberry. I mean, like when you get a not yet. Oh, well, maybe not. I didn't get a Blackberry until Provident. Right. Blackberry and Prov at Providence.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

We've had Beeson on this podcast. So you know Robert. Oh yeah. He and I are super good friends.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

He was one of my he was the second to last boss I had. Oh, I love Robert. He's the best. He was I hate to say he was my best boss. I I liked all of them for different reasons, but I kept getting new ones all the time. I'm sure and that was very stressful.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

We've had Mays, John Mays.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Okay, I he was never my boss, but I know who he is.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

We love him. Robert, who which is weird because she and I met Robert and John pretty much around the same time, and we're we've stayed really good friends, which is so fun.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Um we weren't good friends with Robert when we were there.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

No, we didn't like him very much, and he didn't like us at all. Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

Well, uh he he wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

He wanted to.

Artists, Avalon, and Communicating Through Song

SPEAKER_04 11:56

We just you know we were a little bit misread by the whole industry. Well, you you guys knew each other.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Kind of. I mean, yeah, we got along really well. Like I always loved Jennifer. Like I but you have to remember this. Like, I was at reunion technically, yeah. And Essential was like I can say this now because none of us are there, but everyone over at reunion, it was like we were the we were like the nice You were the good kids, the good kids that you know we were the rebels, and they were the rebels. It was true, and we came up, I don't know, we came up with this thing where back then Harry Potter was big, and I was like, if we were Harry Potter, you know, it's Gryffindor, it's and what was Slytherin and Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, and I was like, We're Gryffindor, and they're definitely Slytherin. Yes, like there was like this vibe, right? It's so true. Um, no, we said Sparrow was Gryffindor. Sorry, we were Hufflepuff. Yeah, reunion was Hufflepuff, and everyone was like, Oh my gosh, that's so true. That is, I mean, because I was like, why are we so different? We're just different. And it's not that there was a jealousy there, it was just like, what are they doing down there? Because y'all were at the end of the hall. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 13:09

And it was blue lights and you two and a totally different vibe, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:13

And then they had us, and we did not fit that. We were on reunion.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

You should have been on reunion, we should have been with you guys. But I will say we passed on reunion. Well, I it shh it's okay. I mean, I suddenly I didn't own it. You don't offend me. Well, but wait, is that the one we is that the one you were talking about?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

I mean, I have like two people in town that really don't like me.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

And he's one of them.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

And they're we'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Okay, we'll talk about it off camera. But well, the weird thing is like I will I will say this about it. It was besides having being a being a Christian, getting married to Jody, and having a baby. Like that was the most amazing time of my life. And I didn't know it at the time, right? Oh, sure. You don't know. I had no idea that I would miss that. I would miss my friends, the group that we had.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

How old were you then?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

25 when I got that job. Oh, yeah. And if I told you how much money I made, you would absolutely die.

unknown 14:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

In a good way or a bad way? Bad.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Like you hardly made any money.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

I barely, I mean, if I hadn't have been married, I couldn't have, I would have had to live at home. Yeah. And every year, my still it, every year, you know, my job review or whatever, and then be like, yeah, we can't, you know, that we've other people are in line for and I will say Robert, when he became my boss, pushed my paper that I made across with during my review and was like, Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

And I was like, he goes, I cannot believe this is what you've been making. And I said, I love it. I love my life. I'm happy. I'm this is like, it's like I got to take all the interior design, creativity, and my brain just works that way. I'm just always creating in my head. So to for them to bring an artist to the table and say, We need you, this is the record, and we need to make it.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Who are your favorites? The artists.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

I loved everybody, but I will tell you the most precious person I worked with was Michael W. Smith.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

And I'll and I'm not kidding, like Michael is the exact same person. There is no, it's not like he's putting on a Christian show, right? He his character is exactly what you see, is what you get. Right. And he was probably my absolute favorite because I felt like he genuinely appreciated everyone around. Like, yeah, no one was beneath him, below him, and he's Michael W. Smith, right? And um, I had a girl named Jill Piquette. Do y'all remember Jill Piquette?

SPEAKER_04 15:44

I know Jill, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Jill Piquette.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

I loved her. Yeah, she's we still listen to some of her songs. Oh, yeah. Yeah, come to me song. And yeah, yeah. Jill we still have a song.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Jill was an we we kind of came up with a ministry we wanted to do together, and we never got to do it together. And it made me really sad. Um, she's a beautiful girl, amazing singer. I loved her voice. Um you keep up with her? What's she doing? No, I mean, you know, Facebook helped me keep up with people for a while, and then I don't know if it's an algorithm thing, or you just people would just disappear. And so I don't know. She lives out west somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 16:18

She's Canadian, I think.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yes. So we like Dan Mann. Do you all remember Dan Mann? He was a manager, he brought us like six acts from Canada. So it was Shine MK, uh Jake, which was three brothers. Oh, yeah. Pretty sure. But Jill Piquette was under uh Mike. Well, he just passed away, and he was so kind. Um, he was a manager, and he literally just passed away.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Scleric?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

No, that's Mitch. Did Mitch die Mitchell? No, no, he's alive. No, no, no, he's alive. Wait, oh gosh, no.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

Wait, we had dinner with him the other night. Never mind. Not Mitch.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

No, you would know this. Oh, was he at that? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

This my and I I it's on the tip of my tongue, but anyway, he was her manager. Um, I mean, gosh, I had a lot of um Crystal Myers was a fun photo shoot. We went to LA for her.

SPEAKER_04 17:06

She's out in California.

Tattoos, Loss, and Holding on to Family

SPEAKER_01 17:08

She was a fun one. Never mind. That's Crystal Lewis. Yes. See, we don't know. Crystal Lewis got my husband to get a tattoo, his first tattoo. Well, what's he have? Um she took him to get it. Um he has a lot of tattoos. Jody McRae is tattoos. Jody has so many tattoos. No, EA. And I I finally got one with him, but um, yeah, he has a sleeve. What do you have? He has almost a sleeve. So I did see you're pointed at your arm. So it's for my brother. Oh. So we had um Sarah Clayton had the idea that my brother Wade passed away a year and a half ago, and his son looks just like him, acts just like him, and he's 11. And she went in his room one day and said, Hey, why don't you write out your dad's initials for us on a piece of paper because we've been wanting to get um his initials, you know, of some some sort put on all of us. And so he wrote it like 10 different times, and then he circled the one he liked the most. And so we took it to the tattoo place. I was a wreck. I never wanted to get it. Well, that's not true. One time when I would had something to drink, when I shouldn't have been drinking, I probably in a sense, it was probably a beast and thing. No, this isn't this is in college. I I almost got a oh please, bro. Sarah Clayton and Jody are going they're going to cry. I almost got a cowboy Mickey on my ankle. Oh, because they had a right now, okay. They had a book out, and you know, I didn't, and my girlfriend was like, let's get tattoos. We went to the beach. There was a tattoo parlor at the beach, and I'm flipping through it, and and I was like, I'm getting it. Tattoo Mick tattoo, and he was like, he had chaps. Oh he was a sheriff, he was a sheriff, and he had the big 10-gallon.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Was it in like Destin?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

It was in um Orange Beach because I was at um University of Mobile. Okay, and so we had to have been at the beach somewhere there, and so and he like has guns out. And the lady, the lady was laughing and she goes, you know what? Um, why don't you wait 24 hours and come back if you really want it? That was a good idea. Right, if I could find her, yeah, I I'd probably buy her a car. Like that my life, like if I had a sheriff making a jail on your goal, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Well, if you're a tattoo artist in Orange Beach right now, you can email me because it sounds like you got a car coming to you.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Exactly right. I mean, y'all, that would have been so bad. And I never really wanted to get a tattoo. So I remember the next day going, we were just, I think I had I mean, I can't drink at all. And if I have like one little drink, I'm ridiculous. You're getting a Mickey tattoo. Zero tolerance. So I just, you know, I'll have a half a glass of wine if I if I ever do. And so I probably had had like a wine cooler that day and like a zema. Yeah, I probably had a zema that day. And I didn't hardly ever drink, so it's so weird that that was the day. So it was probably an angel, like baby. Let's just wait on the mix. Let's wait on Sheriff Mickey's.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

We were at we were at dinner with uh Hillary and Bill Wellens. Uh Hillary, uh Bill was Bill was pastoring our church at the time. And so we're sitting at dinner one night in Franklin, and Bill sees pony. Yeah, Bill sees this server, and she's got a tattoo that he he's like, if I get a tattoo, it would be that one.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

So through the course are over, we're looking at it.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Through the course of dinner, we're like, Bill, you should do that. And Jennifer's like, Jeremy, you've been wanting one. Because we just moved back from Africa, and I w kind of wanted something to Africa. I wanted to just kind of you know mark that time, and I I liked her tattoo too. And Jennifer's like, that's kind of what you're talking about getting. And I told Bill, I said, Well, if you get it, I'll get it. And then Hillary looks at Jennifer and goes, Would you get one?

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Well, Hillary was going through a whole bunch of stuff too, and she's like, I'd get a tattoo too. I mean, I've been kind of thinking about it. He's like, Yeah. And I was like, Well, if y'all three are getting them, I'll get one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

So we leave that restaurant and go to the tattoo parlor. Well, she's always down for a hang.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

So so we're leave. So we leave the Red Pony and drive to that skanky tattoo.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

The one over by Pebble Royal on West Bay. Oh, yeah, I know the one.

SPEAKER_04 21:20

So we walk in and the girls are kind of going through a flip book. Bill has the flip book.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

That is don't ever go to the flip book. People that's right.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

In the meantime, Bill has the girl design the one that he wants.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

And it's just real, you know, simple little cross. And so he's going to get it, I'm going to get it. They've picked out ones that they're going to get. And they put the Cracker Jack thing on, like the temporary to go. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, that's fine. And Bill's like, yeah, that's cool. And so they go, Who wants to go? And Bill's like, ah, I'm scared to go first. And Hillary's like, I can't go first. It looks like it hurts. And Denver's like, Well, I'm going to go.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Well, I wasn't sure what I wanted yet. So I was kind of like, I'm not sure yet.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

So I was like, But I'll go. I said, I can go first. I mean, we're all doing it. And so we sit down and the tattoo artist gets out their thing, and it's a small tattoo, and she's like, she gets halfway through the first side. And Bill looks at Hillary and says, Hillary, I don't know about that on you. And Hillary is like, Yeah, I think I'm out. And Jennifer goes, it happened this fast. No, no, no, no. It happened this fast.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

He goes, Well, if you're out, I'm out. He says to Hillary, Oh my God. And I'm like, And you're halfway through your tattoo. Well, it happened this fast. Not a sticker.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

He goes, if you're out, I'm out. She goes, I think I'm out. He goes, I'm out. Jennifer goes, Well, I'm out.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

What did you get?

SPEAKER_04 22:44

This little cross. Within 15 seconds.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Everyone's out.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

Everyone was out. And mine was halfway through. Come on, Mint. Come on in, babe. Um Sadie Claire. Sadie Claire's here.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

We both have SC daughters.

SPEAKER_04 22:57

So which by the way, the girl on Outer Banks, what's her name?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Oh, what is Sarah Cameron? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

I always call her I call her Sarah Clayton all the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I know this because I have a you know 20-year-old daughter, so whose name is almost Sarah Clayton.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

So I have a tattoo also.

unknown 23:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

It's pretty little, isn't it? It's not a sleeve or anything.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

And I'm not definitely not embarrassed of it. But it's just funny that we, you know, we went together.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

I think that's pretty lame that everyone backed out on you. I'm sorry. You're in the it hurts. I mean, it didn't hurt horrible. Let me see. That didn't hurt bad, but I'm a big chicken.

SPEAKER_04 23:32

No, no, that hurts.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

But on the bone. Oh, let me see though. That is time. So it's WB. That's and it's in Owen's um handwriting. Oh, how old is Owen? What's his name? Owen. Oh, so Owen is Owen Wade Benz, and my brother's Wade, Gary Wade Benz. Okay. So, but he was Wade Benz.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

And he was he married?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yes, before kids.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

I'm so sorry. I remember when this happened a year and a half ago. Because I think I texted you.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

I think I blacked out.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

I think I texted you.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

If you did, I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

I just told you, I said, hey, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Jennifer told me. And, you know, I do grief work with people. If you ever want to talk, just call me.

Stepdad’s Stroke at Vanderbilt

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Oh, well, here we are. Yeah. Here we are. You're talking. Well, I will tell you that Sarah Clayton took my phone probably within the first 24 hours and wouldn't let me have it. How'd you find out? I had over 500 text messages and messages. And I was pretty much like in I was in such I think I I it has to be a you know, your body, God created it to when you're in that kind of shock or whatever. Right. Um I went look I went looking for him. How would you find it? Because you were, but you you're very close. You guys are a very close family. Yes. I mean, probably some people would say we were too close because we just loved being together. My stepdad was the funniest person that God has ever put on this planet. And we everyone just wanted to be with him. If you knew Gary Benz, if you didn't like Gary Benz, that was your problem because he was the funniest. He was a prankster, you know, he just everything. I he was amazing and loved Jesus, did things for people without anyone ever knowing. The amount of people when he had his stroke, the amount of people that sent me private messages that said, You don't know this, but Gary gave me my first job. Gary gave me money when we couldn't pay our rent. Gary sat with us at the hospital. We didn't know him. We met him at the hospital. Um, he saw us crying, our son was dying, and he came every day.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

I mean, just but he's not living anymore.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

He is, he's just he had a brainstem stroke about eight and a half years ago. And he had the brainstem stroke when my mom was in surgery for cancer. Oh, so we're sitting in Vanderbilt, and that's why Gary lived. Who my stepdad, that's why he lived. Because I was sitting with him and we were working. I had my computer out, and we had a a business and a family business, and people were taking turns going back there and praying over my mom. She found out she had cancer in her eye, and it was melanoma. And very quickly, if you don't catch that, it goes into your lungs and liver and kills you very quickly. And so, um did it? No, my mom's living and she's cancer free. Man, that's and so it I mean, yeah. And the doctor that did her surgery, like he moved up the surgery. I mean, all of it, because m my stepdad Gary was on the golf course. He was the mayor of West Avon, right? Like he every they called him the mayor, and he played golf almost every single day in golf tournaments. I mean, that was like his life. So he'd go to work for a few hours, go out, and he was a salesman. So he'd go see all of his people and make some money and then go play golf. And so we're sitting there, and he had come out from mom and I had, and we were talking, and y'all, it was the weirdest thing. He literally looked like he like he had jumped in a swimming pool. He was soaking wet, and he goes, Oh, my head hurts. And he starts taking off his belt. And I'm like, What are you doing? And I was kind of laughing because I'm like, What are you doing? And he takes his glasses off and he's like literally almost undressing, but he's soaked. And I was like, What's wrong? What what is wrong? What is happening? And and he he was like, Something, something's wrong. So I went and ran and got the lady who was at the front desk. Well, she just happened to used to be a ER nurse. So she sees him and goes and calls for a crash cart or whatever. I I and I mean, within seconds, everyone's in there or working on him. And we're just like, What is that? But we're at Vanderbilt, right? So it's no big deal, they're fine. So everyone's like, You your mom's gonna want to see Gary, like before he goes in. Like she's gonna want to see him before she twiged back. So I have to go and we're all just so they were in surgery at the same time. Yeah, yes. So I'm trying to cliff notes this because it was a it was a lot. She is about to go into surgery and she goes, I want to see, I want to see dad. And I said, Well, he's he got a little sick, and so they're um they're looking at him and she goes, No, I want to see I then I'm not going into surgery. So I called our pastor, uh, Pastor Tim Johnson at the time he was our pastor. Precious. I I I couldn't have made it through anything without this man. I'm not even kidding you. And he was like, You go in there and you he's like, Woman of God, you get in there and you tell your mom to go into surgery. And so I'm like, Okay. So I went in there and I'm like, mom, Wade's gonna go be with dad, and I'm gonna go, I'm I'm gonna be out here waiting with you for you. The surgery's really fast, you'll be out, whatever. So when Wade didn't call me for a long time, I the other people we'd had a lot of people coming to see my mom. So they're like, we're gonna wait here for your mom. Don't worry, you go and and be with Wade. So I'm in the ER with Wade in the ER room, and we're we're blowing up gloves, okay? And we're making glove and I'm not kidding. Like we were we were stressed, we were making jokes. You know, Wade and I, he was my best friend. I mean, Jody joked and was like, when I got married to you, I married two people. Like it it you were a package deal, it was you and Wade. And we were four years apart, and you know, we just were best friends. He was he was my buddy, and we did everything together. And so, you know, and Gary was our life in some ways, probably to I don't want to say an idol, but now looking back, like we just worshiped him, right? And so it was I I remember when they came back in the room because they had taken him to do an MRI, and they hit some button, and every alarm in the world went off, and they said, We need you to leave, we're we're bringing a counselor in. Um it he is having a brainstem stroke as he's in the MRI. Oh my god and we're watching it happen, and we we have some people coming to get you, and we're like and Wade just collapses. I mean, he collapses, and I I'm just what do you mean? You know, so they come with like a grief, like a social worker and another doctor. And they took us in a room and said, This is what's happening. And he's either going to die or he's going to be a vegetable. You, he is not the same man that that you just saw. And I I was like, Well, and the no offense, but the doctor looked like he was 14 and a half. I mean, I I was shocked. It and not to slam him, but you know, Vanderbilt's a teaching hospital. Right. And I'm like, I I could be your mom. Like, this is and I said, I need you and Jesus to get in there and save his life because my mom is in surgery right now, and I'm not telling her her husband's dead. So everyone in this hospital needs to save his life. Right. I mean, I was I was mad. I was like, he is not dying. I told my mom he was okay. She's in surgery. He is not dying. And I called Pastor Tim. We people were at the hospital, you know, the hospital started just getting nuts because people are hearing about this. Right. Then they take us to up to the sixth floor. At the time it was the sixth floor is the brain, like, you know, traumatic brain injuries and stuff. And that's where the helicopter kind of lands on the thing, and um the whole room was filled. I mean, like they people thought the governor or a mayor or something was there. It was insane. And so I obviously my mom's in surgery. She came out fine.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Um, wait, where is everybody?

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Yeah, well, this is what they did for us. They kept her sedated, they kept her overnight. Um, she didn't know till the next day. Boy, that's nice. And so I had to go in and uh we drew straws. And you got them. And of course, the boys made me go, I guess I my brother Chase flew, they someone flew him in because he lives in LA. Flew him in and we drew straws, and I had to tell my mom. I was so mad at the boys um for that one, but you know, um the it was funny because I would go in and I will say no one gave us any hope, like not even a little bit. And they let us all in there. I mean, it was like a party in his room. People were laying hands on him, they were praying on him. We had we were playing CC Wineins, we were playing um, you know, old like Bethel, you know, early, early praise and worship when that I mean, this the old school stuff. I mean, we were blasting it. And like, this man's not dying, like that's not happening. And so it was it was insane. That whole he ended up having a brain bleed, a heart attack. Um over the next six months. That was our life. We lived in the in the I see like So how is he? Well, he can talk, he he knows who he is, he knows us. Um, he but he's kind of like a toddler. I mean, he's got a really bad sense of humor now. You know, you have to kind of reel him in and in public sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

Like farts and poops and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yes, and it can get even worse than that. But yes, but definitely loves his problem. He would. Oh his potty, his potty talk, you're just like sweat. I mean, I sweat. I used to take him to church and I would sweat because I'm like, if he would heckle, the pastor was his friend, and he would heckle him, and I'm just like, I'm so sorry, and I just want to hide, you know. But you know, I think if he if he hadn't have known us, I would have wanted God to take him.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

You know, and I still think is this cruel? I mean, he can't walk, he can walk with us holding him up. His legs work, but his body doesn't know how to walk well.

SPEAKER_04 33:25

So he's he's never been resentful that you saved him, though.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

He doesn't remember anything. Oh, okay. So he doesn't know that he he doesn't even know he had a stroke. I don't think he does he even know his remember life before. A long time before.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

Does he not know he's not normal?

Living With Brain Injury, Caregiving Realities

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Every one, you know what, every once in a while. Like, because he's so happy most of the time. Like we we took him, we take him to lunch and we take him out on good days. I mean, he's a happy toddler. Oh, yeah. And some days it's almost like I try to describe it, it's like when you have a parent with dementia, like, and then all of a sudden one day they're totally normal, and you're going, they're back for a second, but then they go back into the thing, you know, and we get moments, and and my mom says in his sleep, he talks exactly like he talked before. Oh, okay. Because he had a trach for a really long time and he kept pulling it out, and then they would and they had to keep and so it really hurt his vocal cords. Yeah, so his voice is different. So I used to call his phone all the time so I could hear him because I just wanted to hear his voice, you know, the the old Gary.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

But he, you know, he remembers a lot. Like his high school buddies come over and they talk about high school, and he has he knows details. So it's so it's it's literally like maybe the months leading up to a stroke, he doesn't know anything. I've asked him, I've told him he doesn't remember any of it. Thank I mean that is a gift.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

But he remembers you guys and you're home and all that.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Oh yeah. Yeah, but it is a blessing. He he knows what happened with Wade, but he doesn't it's not something that he thinks about every day because his brain doesn't work that way. Like a gift. The doctor said that it's like and and actually Wade took him to the doctor one day and and gave me a break because I usually I was kind of in charge of his health. So I worked with all the doctors. Like one of the days they said in order to save him, and no one was there, everyone went home to sleep. And I stayed back because I couldn't leave him, and my mom couldn't come to the hospital because she was doing radiation. So um they were like, We've got to drill a hole, and we have to you have to sign something for us to do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

And sorry, and I was like, Oh, okay, so like what am I signing? Like, well, if he dies, that you've said this is okay, but we have to save him. He the pressure has to be released, and so I went, I signed it, and I again by myself, no one's there, everyone's at either at work or asleep or whatever. And I went to this stairwell and I was screaming. I I that's like one of my biggest memories of that is screaming, and just like if he dies, if he dies, everyone's gonna blame me. It's gonna be my fault. Um, but they're telling me I don't have a choice here, you know.

SPEAKER_04 36:12

They're telling me if he dies either way, it's your fault.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

Right. And so I'm like, I'm gonna make this decision. And there had been several people, actually, the craziest thing is at the time Loretta Lynn had had a stroke and she was on our floor, and so we had there was like five or six stroke patients, and I was meeting families, and they were they were y'all, they were dying. Like I'd get to know these families and spend the day with them, and then they'd be out bawling, and I'm like, Are you? And they're like, didn't make it, and they were telling me what they were doing. And so what I what I think was happening is these people, those were the last resorts. They were doing these certain they, you know, putting the holes and and releasing pressure. Well, with with my stepdad, they were like, We want to start with those things. It seemed like they because they were losing patience left and right. Oh, interesting. And it was almost like we don't want to get to that level of emergency, right? And so they're thinking, and he could give me a thumbs up. One time he shot me a bird. Like he did. He had tons of friends that came to see him, his pastor, all of his friends, Steve Berger was one of his best buddies, and Rick Kua. Do you know who Rick K? Oh Rick Kua. Um, and and Pastor Stephen Rick Kua and all these guy, men, you know, are standing out in the waiting room and they're all like, Can you go in and check on him? So I this is the only funny thing that happened. I go in and I'm like, Poppy, I am here. I'm, you know, it's Stephanie, I'm here. You have a thousand people outside that want to know if you're in there. Because we didn't know if he was in there. And I said, I need you to give me a thumbs up. And he shot me a bird. And he gave me the finger, and so I came out and I go, He's in there, he shot me a bird. And he didn't do that, right? So um that is horrible.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

And so little did you know this is your life.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Well, and he called Pastor Steve, he called him burger, and so, and so, you know, I'm sure he wanted burger because I told him he was out there, and I'm sure he wanted burger to get get the bird, yeah, you know, or something to be funny because he was very funny. So, anyway, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

Very heavy. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh, no. No, that's very heavy, but so then this was seven years ago.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Um, it was in 2017, okay. Or 2018. It was before it was it had to be 2017 because it was way before COVID.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

It was yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

And then Wade is just a year and a half.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

A year and a half ago.

SPEAKER_04 38:32

So when you say you went looking for him, well, he was missing for a while.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Just I mean, I want to be careful because I want to be super sensitive to my sister-in-law. Um, but she I had been on the phone with Old Miss because Sarah Clayton was gonna either go to Old Miss or Stamford. Um she ended up at Old Miss.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Well, congrats on last weekend.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Oh, that was yeah, that was stressful. I mean it was a big day. Yeah, it was a big day. It was a big day. I it it's so fun. I'm sorry. I know people hate Lane Kiffin, but I think he's hysterical.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

He's funny.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

I'm sorry. He's he does I think it's because he doesn't take himself so freaking serious. He's hysterical. It's really funny.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

He's the coach and he's super dry, has like a Twitter account. His Twitter account. He trolls people.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Oh, nice. I would like us. Like I would like him.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

He has, I think he reminds me of you know, if I was a coach. No, I'd love to be a football coach. You would love it. I think I I don't know. I think my temper would get the best of me because I take it to the city. Yeah, but that's probably good though. Yeah, I wouldn't play around. Definitely. But um, but yeah, they had a great weekend. But no, she was going to Old Miss, and so I was talking to a lady there about I had a lot of questions because we were making a decision. So I was like, I did a pros and cons for Sarah Clayton. And so um Natalie, who's Wade's wife, text Jody was like, Hey, uh, have you talked to Wade today? And so um, you know, we all follow each other on Life 360. And so, anyway, uh, without giving too many um things, we I went looking for him. And I mean, I got in my car and I was gone. And Jody called me and he starts screaming at me. And he's like, You stop your car. You stop your car. You are not going. And I was, I said, No, I'm right here. I mean, I'm I'm right where he is. No, I'm not stopping my car, I'm going to him. And um he talked to me in a way, not mean, not right, but with such authority in a way that he's never talked to me like that before.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

What did he say?

SPEAKER_01 40:34

I I don't hardly remember, except it was something like in the name of Jesus, you will listen to me and you will hear. Like he said the Lord told him to stop me because I was right like a street away.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

So was it here or in Mississippi? It is in town. It is in town.

Wade’s Disappearance and Breaking News

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Um, and so I I stopped my car and then I drove back somewhere. I don't want to say where. Right. I drove back somewhere and parked my car, and then I couldn't then I then it just something in me just like this isn't I mean, I was going like nothing's wrong. Like I was like, I I this doesn't make any sense. And so I wasn't like freaking out yet.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

And then did you guys know that he was sad?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Okay, yes. I mean, what what m my stepdad stroke did that's his dad, right? I mean, he's my obviously I I I get the awesome privilege of having two dads, like I love both of my dads so much. Very different people, and just the both of them the coolest. I'm so grateful, but that's his dad, right? And I think I watched him the the day that Gary had a stroke, and I it it did something to him. That was his they were business partners too. So where I didn't have to walk past his office every day, my brother did. Yeah, and the lights are off, and all this stuff is exactly how he left it. And I remember going and sitting in his office one day and just sitting at his desk and seeing his post-its and just laying over his desk, just and thinking, my brother has to walk past this every day and do this alone now. And um, you know, um, Gary kept a journal every day, and he wrote and he got up at 4 30 in the morning and prayed every morning for all of us. And I was mad because I'm like, he's our like he prays for our entire family every morning. Like we lost that. Like this man was praying down heaven every morning for us before he ever did anything, and wrote us by name. Everybody had it, wasn't my family, every one of us had something by our name that he prayed over, and so but I never thought I thought he'd get better. I really did. Um, because my aunt had had a stroke, and even though she's paralyzed on her right side, I mean she's a beast.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

I mean, but you you saw this in Wade.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Yeah, like I he was sad, but he's so and and Wade's really was really, really, really funny. Like he was as funny as Gary in a different way, like he was hysterical, and and so to see so much of that be gone. Um now you can see moments of it, right? Right. But um then COVID came and destroyed our business, destroyed our business. And like we barely kept it.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

What'd you guys do?

SPEAKER_01 43:28

This is insane. So we we had a merch business. Okay, so during COVID, my brother shipped in masks from China. Oh, smart. Because and we would I would joke and put on a hazmat suit to open them as a joke. Like we have pictures of all of us in hazmat suits, and um some of our best friends came over and their kids and helped us because no one could come to the office, but they weren't scared, so they're like, we're coming over and helping you. So we we sold masks to to survive, but we never, ever, ever because our company is did like John Maxwell Toyota. I mean, we had a Time Magazine Oprah. I mean, we had these big corporate things, and when you you know they shut us down and wouldn't let us get together, it took our livelihoods. I mean, we almost and all of my family worked there. I mean, everybody. So we all lost everything.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

You mean the same thing she means when she says they.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Oh, I'm sure I do. When they shut us down, then they you know who we mean. Oh, I know exactly who you mean. I have I have a bone to pick with them. Yes, yes, yes. There is a big they. Oh, it's a very large they. I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah. So that you think that contributed to it?

SPEAKER_01 44:44

I think it's it was just I I think when you his personal, he was such a feeler. Like we were very similar. I would say we were almost identical, except I have another family, I have a different dad, right? And my I joke, and I'm so get in trouble for this, but the Harrisons are my family, and they they do not, they are very um Jody says they're almost void of the human emotion, and we joke with them about it. We tell them that because they're they're just they handle things in a way that it's like this, and you don't hear you, they bear they don't cry, they're very tough. I mean tough people, and you know, later in life I I found out why. I mean they've had a lot of hard things, and so it makes you know, when you know someone's story, yeah, and if you don't, you you know, sometimes you don't have grace for people because you think they're just a jerk, but you're oh then you find out their story and you're like I got you there's always a reason for it.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

Kobe changed my personality for a little bit too.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Did it?

SPEAKER_04 45:47

Yeah, I mean, I'm actually I come from real optimistic, positive roots. And I, you know, if if a storm's coming, I'm usually like, hey, this we'll there'll be something. Yeah, we'll make some good out of this, whatever. But I got I got pretty like I was like, I don't, you know, this is gonna be a big deal. Like I I hate I hate this.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Like I hated it. I at first it was kind of campy and focus.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yes, at first it was fun. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

People baking bread and working on the city. Oh yeah, baking bread.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

That was the that was a big thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:22

But I mean we I remembered I remember where we were sitting in we were living in California at the time, and Jennifer goes, I'm done with this.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

We were at the beach.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

Yeah, she goes, I'm I'm I said, You lost me.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

I'm done. I said, I'm I'm done with this thing. I oh no. It was whenever those doctors all came out and said the truth about it, and I was like, Oh, because we would watch Fauci every day. Oh yeah, and Chris Cuomo and and ticker at the bottom and Chris Cuomo handed over to Don Lemon, and we watched CNN every day, and yeah, and I know it it and then the frontline doctors came out and I was like, Oh, and I'm out, and I was like, Okay, this is all a freaking lie.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Anyway, but when she when she became out, she also went several levels down into the basement of the rabbit hole. I mean, like this podcast ought to be called like the rabbit hole with Jennifer Dailer.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

The basement of the rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

You've got to ask questions. Why can't we ask questions? There's nothing wrong with that. That's part of the problem. It's because we just listened to what everybody because we grew up believing you had Dan Rather, did you not?

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

Dan Rather was always on TV, and he whatever he said, I believed. Right. That's just what whoever's on TV, you believe them, right? Right. It's a bunch of crap. It's none of them. Yeah, it's all crap. No, it's crap.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

Is it all crap?

Grief, Denial, and the Funeral

SPEAKER_01 47:44

I think I think a lot of it is. Most of it is. I think even the even the good ones. Even the good ones, there's still someone is still behind the city. Even the Republican crap is that. Well, there is a puppet master of both. I have lots of issues with all of it. We could talk about all that. You could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

It's your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah, it's your podcast. Yeah, but we were in the middle of your story.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

So you okay, so you went looking.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Yeah, so my sweet dad, who bless him, you know, isn't it isn't one to have tons of emotions. Like in, and thank God, because I think that's how I've survived this, is that I did have part Harrison in me. Um, and I believe that. I Jody and I talk about it. I said, Do you think it's because I'm a Harrison I could handle this thing? And he goes, probably so. But I was talking to my friend You're also a woman. Well, there is that.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

They can handle it. People think we're weak, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Some people do. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? If you really knew what I've been through in my life, give me a freaking break. I can handle way more than people give me credit.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

Women can do at the in the moment what needs to be done.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Okay, that's maybe that's it.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

There's something that God just put in us that I can handle emergency. And I feel like God is raising up women right now. Yeah. I mean, I think women are kind of having to raise up because until the men get their crap together, not until the men grow up there.

SPEAKER_04 49:11

Men are good at strength. We're back.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

What you were saying is that your your dad came and got you.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Yeah, so he came to get me. I couldn't, I I don't know why. I couldn't, my hands didn't work. I couldn't use the I couldn't use my hands, I couldn't hold the steering wheel. Like I just had this weird like outer body experience. And so he took me to meet up with Jody. Long story short, sheriff came to meet us. Sheriff talked to Jody first. I saw them walking towards me.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

When the sheriff comes.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

I mean, it it it was yeah, I they wanted to take me to the ER. I do remember that. And I was like, just everybody leave me alone. You know, I was on the side of the road, you know, I ran from everybody. I just was like, I in the horrible, like it it it it was already the worst possible thing.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

Was your sister-in-law there with you? No, no, no. She was at someone's house.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

It was me, yes, yes. And you know, it's it's the end of the school day, and Sarah Clayton had her senior recital okay, that night. And she had she was in three things, and she had a solo well, she had a duet, sorry, a duet and two, she had a song with her three of her best friends, and it's her senior year, you know, it's the second half of your senior year. So and I'm thinking, how like what do I do? Like, how do I do any of this? And then how do I go home and tell my mom that her son? How do you tell someone that their child's not here? And I knew how I felt.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

I knew how did you feel?

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Well, a part of me was gone. Like the I knew I would never be the same person ever again because he was so much of who I was. And I know that sounds weird because he's my brother, right? And you're like, Well, I have brothers, I have sisters, I mean, I I love them, but it's like, no, like we were tight, like our growing up, we just we loved being kids together. We we loved our family, we loved my aunt who had a stroke, had a boat um on Old Hickory Lake, a huge Hadras, and he would come out, we'd spend the weekends on it, you know. And see, Jody traveled like 200 and something days a year, and Wade wasn't married, and so I'm alone, and we're all close to the same age. He loved hanging with my friends, I loved hanging with his friends, and you know, we went to the beach all the time with our families, like so it's like he was he lived with us um when he was building his house, and Sarah Clayton was born, and Jody was on the road, and he's so good with newborns, like he's like the baby whisperer, and so I mean, he stepped into a role. I mean, y'all know because you traveled all the time. It's like when you're on the road all the time, and I'm doing this by myself and not getting any sleep, and he's like, I'll take her, you know, and he's taking her and he's taking care of her. And they that's her first best friend. You know, that was her buddy. And I mean, he would dress her up when she would get a little bit older. He dressed her up, and that was like a kind of funny thing, he loved to dress up and do funny things. Like, that's his thing. And even him and his wife, like the thing we did every year was wait to see Halloween what they were gonna be dressed up like. Oh funny. Like they have some of the best costumes you've ever ever like the things they thought of. Like, how did you think of that? But anyway, so I I think it's I'll I don't I'm not the same person I as I was at three o'clock that Friday. Yeah, I'll never be that person again. Um I there's like a gaping, gaping home where he's not there.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

And has it gotten better?

SPEAKER_01 53:07

No, it's gotten worse. Um, I think the f Jody and I just talked about this. It's like I didn't have a choice. My mom um was so devastating. I mean, you know, rightfully so, like all the things you can ever even try to imagine, the screaming, I I'll never ever, ever get that out of my head as long as I live. Um, you know, worried about Natalie and the kids, um, worried about how are we gonna tell Gary he's laying in a bed and his emotions are all over the place anyway. How I had to tell him 16 times.

unknown 53:43

Oh my gosh.

Community, Teen Support, and Small Mercies

SPEAKER_01 53:44

And I say if I have to tell him this again, I'm I'm out too. Like oh, I'm I can't do this again. Um and I and then I went into like a kind of denial thing. Like I remember Jody did everything, like he said he and a couple other people like did the funeral and everything, and they were talking about it to some people, and I said, What's Thursday? And they're like, his funeral. I said, I'm not gonna be there, not going. Like, you have to go with your brother. I said, No, I'm not, I'm not going. Because that meant I had to admit that it happened, right? So I was like, this didn't happen. So I didn't want to go. And I definitely wasn't gonna say anything. Like everyone's like, right, you will regret it for the he was your best buddy. Like, you can't. I was like, no, you don't understand. This is Wade we're talking about. Like I don't know. I still, I mean, there will be days where I drive around and I'm like screaming in my car because it's I just didn't happen, right? It didn't right, and so I don't know. I mean, I think it something happened in my brain, and I I don't know, good thing, bad thing, that you stuff it so far down to be able to survive. Like, I told Jody I was afraid I was gonna have a heart attack. I kept saying, My heart hurts so bad, my chest hurts so bad, I can't breathe. Like, I literally can't get air. And like, what I don't want to have a heart attack and leave you and Sarah Clayton.

SPEAKER_04 55:08

Meanwhile, he's got a weird heart.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

He's the one with a messed up heart. And he, I mean, literally, you guys, I don't know how he did it. I to have to handle me, to have to handle my mom, to have to help plan. He did all the music for the funeral. Um, I don't know how he did it. I I I have no idea. And I don't, I really don't remember a lot of it. I people will see me still. I'll be like at a at the puffy muffin, or you know, I'll be out and someone would say to me, like, the funeral was, I mean, I you're, you know, so and so that sang or so-and-so that spoke. That was beautiful. And I'm like, what'd they say? Yeah. I don't, I don't know. Right. And a friend of mine said something about me talking when I talked, and I said, I don't, I don't remember what So you did talk. I ended up talking, but I don't really I kept telling Jody, I do rem I thought I was gonna throw up. So this is gonna be my dark humor coming out, okay? And please, any of my family that hears this, I apologize.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

But so I doubt any of your family or one of her listeners right now.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

I'm just saying, if somebody, but and Sarah Clayton and I have very like dark, dark sense of humor. And so the casket is is in the middle of the room, right in the front. And every they're bringing us in for visitation. And open. No, they shut. Well, they had it open. I didn't know I was, and I I was so mad. Like, I don't want that's not the that's not what I want to remember. My and I didn't again, it was a denial thing, like he's not really in there, and so this is not funny, but it is kind of funny, and he's would be I know he was giggling at me. Like I think it's yeah, he's he had a sick sense of humor too. So they were about to put my mom next to the casket and my and and Gary, and Gary's in a wheelchair, right? And and and doesn't understand really what's happening.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

Making fart jokes.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Making fart seriously, it probably was, and so I said, No, no, no, you cannot put my mom there, just put me there. Well, the way I got shoved, he's it's so dark, but his the casket, his head is right here, right? And I'm pressed, my side is pressed into the casket. Oh my gosh, and and Sarah Clayton looks at me and she goes, you know, he's laughing at you right now. And I was like, I'm I called him a couple of names. And I'm not a big I wasn't a big cusser back then, but I I was like, you don't believe put me in this, you know, I was just letting him have it. And I'm like, and you're probably laughing, you probably think this is funny. This is not funny, and I'm sitting here with your casket shoved into my side. I mean, I was just and I remember that, and then you know, then I remember people saying really stupid stuff. They don't not everybody, but you know, right, especially older people. Sometimes they just say things and you're like, okay. Yeah, and but then they meet, you know, no one like sure ever means anything. It's and and what are you really gonna say? There's nothing you're going to say to make me feel better.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

There and and it the it's just nice to know people, yo, there was like so many people there. It was insane. I would look out one time. I looked out, I'm like, what in the world? Like it was just I'm like, if he could just seen this one for one second, seeing how m many people loved him, like adored him. So I mean might have mattered, might not. Maybe it might not. But you know what I mean? Like funerals, people just and I kept thinking, God, how many times did I say things to people having no idea that it hurt them or hurt their feelings, or um but people were precious. I mean, obviously they're coming through because they want to love on you, let you know that they're there. And you know, just some people would just look at you and just go, I just want you to know I I love you. And I think that was the the best thing, you know, right, that you could say.

SPEAKER_04 59:00

I don't think I love you and I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

I love you and I'm sorry, because there's just nothing else you can say. There's nothing you can say. Nothing. Yeah. So, you know, I don't I do remember not wanting to leave his graveside. I remember them when they were putting him in the ground, I was mad, and I and people were starting to leave, you know, and I'm like, I'm not leaving him. Right. I'm not leaving him. Like, and I know at one point, like my family was like, You've we've you've got to and I'm like, you're I'm not leaving him. And I can I can understand that. I mean, I probably was so in such a whacked-out state of mind, I would have spent the night there. Yeah. Like I really, if the people had just left me alone.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

Like, if I could have just been left alone, I would never have left. Well, and how do you go home and just go home?

SPEAKER_00 59:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

And just live. I you know, the weird thing is, like, I didn't sleep for a really long time. And and then when I would fall asleep, I would wake up screaming and crying. And I asked Jody, I said, How long does that last? Like, how long do you One day do you wake up and you're okay again? Like how how long does that last? And so um, but I dream about him all the time. And so and Jody's like, Man, you're so lucky. And I said, I don't know. Sometimes it's I wake up and I'm good, and I'm like, I got to I got to hang out with my brother in this weird sort of weird way, and then other times I wake up and I can't breathe. So just is what it is. So dark, so horrible. I'm so sorry. No.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

No, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:31

Oh and then you I had a client that lost her son, and I mean it took her I think she still couldn't eat solid food when we started working together because if he can't swallow, I can't swallow. You know what I mean?

Sarah Clayton’s Path and Purpose

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

If he like but you know. I mean it's weird stuff. It's you can't, I think everyone what I've learned is like everyone grieves so differently. And I do not judge that. Like you do what you have to do, yeah. Because the fact that you actually can get up in the morning and and put one foot in front of the other, and again, sometimes it makes me mad because it's like I know it's my brother, but you don't get it unless you knew this is a part of me. And for me, it's sing coke. He's he loved Coke, he had emergency cokes, he had hidden cokes. We had Cokes everywhere for you saying we'd have got along. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

I mean, it's that's the first thing I drink in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Yeah, yeah, it's like an IV. I mean, and so Sarah Clayton keeps one of her car. We all keep them places. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

I mean, yours is it's huge.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

It was a big commitment.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

I mean, when you were about to show us, I was thinking, okay, this is I got a sleeve. Well, it's gonna be something.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

I mean, it's it's teeny tiny. That's my kind of tattoo. But here's the thing, like, I I didn't want it to be about No, I know. I I didn't want it to be like Wade Benz, you know. I wanted it I wanted it something. We all wanted something just to always we could look down and he's with us more personal.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

Where do you think you are now? Do you still think you still think you're in the you know, it's weird because when people hear the denial part of grief, they think, well, how could you not how could you think something didn't happen? And I was like, no, the people the people know it happened. They just live as if it didn't. Well, you know it happened, but you go, you know. Yeah. Uh I mean we Jennifer and me met a lady who had had done that for 15 years. You know, she just kept moving.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

So I just keep busy, I just keep moving. Well, what choice do you have? I mean, you can't walk around like Eeyore. You know, people will be, you know, worried about you, and life goes on, right? And so you m my daughter was in the middle of her the final her lacrosse season had started, she was the goalie. She was in all did you go to the recital? Yeah, what happened there? I went to the recital. You went that night. I and we're talking I had to be there in two hours.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:57

Yeah. So I but you didn't tell her.

Health Battles, Addiction Withdrawal, and Recovery

SPEAKER_01 1:03:00

No, no, so um, no, not before we her very best friend took her phone away. Um because they were all at the recital, and so we had to tell my best friend. I I had two girls that were the closest to me that at you know at school, and that we were all best friends, and one of the daughters was her best friend, and she was singing with her too. So she took her phone. Um so they knew. They like only like a handful of people knew. So the hard part was I get there and Jody's like, we're gonna go straight to our seats, and then we're gonna go to our friend's house after, and that's where we're gonna tell Sarah Clayton. Before and then give so she finds out with us, right? And so she sings um the prayer with um one of her guy friends, his name's Tanner, and and it's beautiful. I mean, it's just beautiful. And I'm I'm literally sitting there and I'm thinking, I'm about to ruin my daughter's life. Like this will be the last innocent moment that she'll ever have. Like I when this is over with, her life will never be the same. And so she sang that, and then she sang Landslide with three of her best friends, and then they did like a group thing. So it was a lot, it was called Coffee House, I think is what it was. And so then um but the hard part is I walked in and this poor sweet precious teacher. I mean, she had no idea, and she was like, I just saw Wade last night at parent, she said, and she's like, I just love him. And I saw I literally couldn't breathe. And Jody was like, Okay, we gotta get to our seats, and and I and I just I hyperventilate, and he's like, You've gotta breathe, you gotta just you gotta breathe. And it was a two-night thing, so we had this night. Oh my gosh. So um friends of mine would come up to me just hugging on me and everything, and I I I I just are like, What's wrong with you? Like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'm okay. And you know, I don't have a good poker face, so it was very obvious something's wrong, but I'm trying not to cry or lose my mind, right? And so we get through it and then we have to go and tell Sarah Clayton at a friend's house afterwards, before um, you know, and Jody told her so that I didn't have to because he was worried about me telling her. So, you know, I just yeah, I mean, the next night they hid me in the electrical closet because at that point it had gotten out. And how did she do the second night? That had to be better than the first. Really? She said she sang for him. And I will say one of his best friends showed up at my house at six o'clock in the mor the next morning, and I hadn't slept that night. I'd still had not gone to bed. And he found out, you know, he knew about Coffee House, and he said to her, He's like, Wade would want you to do this, like he would never want you to not do this. It's your senior recital, like this is who you are. And it's I mean, she sang it better than she did, you know, the night before. Wow. So she is and then we came home. I will say one of the sweetest things I've ever seen a bunch of teenagers do. Um we came home and Sarah Clayton had amazing friends in high school, like amazing. Our house was full of kids. Like it was our house, it was like a frat sorority house, you know, it was just we didn't even care. It's all destroyed and things are broken. We didn't care, or like we just wanted them at our house. And so um we came home and the kids filled my house. They filled our house and they had cleaned Sir Clayton's room and done on a fur like foldered her laundry and they'd brought her teddy bears and they'd brought her gifts and PJs and just things to you know, just to make her a little happy, so you know. And they filled my um kitchen with flowers, and um, there was three triplets, and um they're really, really funny boys anyway. They were hysterical, but they just filled my house with laughter and wow, and I mean amazing. It was and it was like midnight. I mean, we didn't get home till midnight, and you know, I don't know, like the kids didn't shy away from going, ooh, I don't want to that's amazing. Her friends they wrote scripture and encouraging notes, and they she still has them all over her window. Like, I mean our window, her um mirror in her bathroom is like massive, and then her mirror in her bedroom, and it's all notes and cards from friends, and she just taped that they taped them up everywhere, and then other ones she added to it, but we still have them up. And I remember I called one of the moms because they're really mischievous boys, the three, and they're triplets, you know. Yeah, and you know, they're at the time maybe 17 or 18. And I called her and I was like, listen, I don't know if I would have gotten through it without their laughter in my house. Wow, those couple of like first days, because I could just hear them laughing, and I thought, okay, we can do this. Um, and so they were really there. Her her guy friends, I mean, she has awesome girlfriends, but her guy friends, I mean, the whole most of the football team came to the funeral. I didn't know that, but I mean, the guys were just those kids. I'll never forget it. I mean, people might think, Why do you love those kids so much? You're why I miss them is because they got us through the worst time of my life, and my daughter's worst time of her life, right? You know. Wow. So, yeah. Anyway, and now she's at school. Oh miss. And how what's she going to school for? Pre-law and special intelligence. What? What does that mean? What is special intelligence? So it not many schools have it. It's basically like FBI, CIA, James Bond crap. Yeah, ow.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:48

No. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

You're not going back. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. What does she want to do? So she saw, I haven't even seen it. Have y'all seen The Sound of Freedom? I didn't see it. No. But Jim Cavizel. I haven't seen it. Getting kids out of sex trafficking. I know about it, but I haven't seen it. She went to see it. And she was like, I'm she was like you with the abortion thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

It it just like it struck something in her. And that's her cause. Yeah, and that's her, that's her cause. And she was like, and she's a great, like my dad takes her to the gun range, and I mean, she is a female James Bond. Oh my god, I don't think I should be a female James Bond. Can I just say I do not believe that? I you do not mess with that. You can start a whole new series with a woman that is a different one. A different one. James Bond's cousin. James Bond's cousin. It's like Supergirl.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:38

Jamie Bond. Jamie Bond.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

It's like, you know how Supergirl is Superman's cousin? That's fine. That's fine. But a Superman.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:45

Jamie Bond.

unknown 1:09:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

So you can have a series. I'm all for, you know, a woman that is tough enough to handle things. But but but she is um an amaz I mean, the way she handles a Glock and can how quickly she can reload and then reload.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

Oh my gosh. Oh, that's terrifying.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:05

This is your spirit animal. No kidding. I love her.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

She's terrifying. I met her one time. Um, we ended up at your neighborhood pool. Oh, yeah. One time. Yeah. And I remember thinking, this is the sweetest little girl I've ever met.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

Yeah. Like she was real sweet.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:19

And Sadie was Sadie would have been three years younger than her, and just thinking, like, she was so kind. And I was like, who is this kid? Like, what? Yeah. Not Jody and Stephanie's kid. She's so kind. It's like, what in the world? She's so sweet. She's sweet. She's yeah, but my goodness, she has uses all over her.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

Oh my god. It no. Okay. So that all came from the other side. Now I have several songs that if we all went to karaoke.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:49

Oh, right on.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

I have in my what did you call it? Your repertoire. Yes. Sarah Clayton laughs when I say that word. Um, if you want me to win like a karaoke contest, I gotcha. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

So what are you need to give you one drink to get you drunk?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

I don't even have to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

Okay. What is your song? Popular from Wicked. Okay. And I I I love like musical theater. Like if I could have. Yes. Okay. I have that. And actually, um I I can sing Shania Twain. There's something where her voice sits that I Jody says I have perfect pitch, and if I really wanted to sing, I could. There you go. But Sarah Clayton will tell m me no.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

Shania Twain.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

But she's just a snot because she's such a good singer. And she she sang before I I I'm not joking. She sang before she spoke. So she would sing. And you're and I mean, obviously, we have music in our house. I mean, Jody's a singer, we love music, we love all kinds of music. So I mean, I love I love gangster rap. I do. I love gangster rap. That tracks. I just track. I really do. I love it. But just not the explicit. You know, always have to get the non-explicit. There's nothing better than that to run to, to work out to, just you know, get out some aggression. That's awesome. I know most of the lyrics to a lot of songs.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:10

Is Bad Bunny gangster rap?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

See, now I don't I don't know anything about him. I've been seeing it because of the NFL thing. Yeah. He well, he's from Puerto Rico, right? Okay. Or he something.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:21

Because he said he never wanted he never wanted to play here again.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

No, he hates America, but now he's gonna be on NFL super the super pump show.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

So I'm what this is what I'm thinking is that this is what I heard. Taylor Swift was going to do it and backed out. Why? Because they weren't gonna give this is what my friend who is obsessed with Taylor Swift told me. They weren't gonna give her the rights to her the music that's well no wonder she didn't want to do that. So she wasn't gonna do it. Yeah. And so I wouldn't do it either. I think she was going to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

So oh, so naturally we go to Bad Bunny. Yeah, so that is there's no Taylor Swift.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:53

So we're going to there's no other step, or you know, that's the next step.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

I get it, giving them 2,000 artists, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

Yeah, who the heck is even Bad Bunny?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:01

I don't know. I so my my Twitter feed.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:04

Doesn't he wear a bunny outfit?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

No, he wears a dress. I don't know. I I don't know what kind of music he is. I might I mean Sir Clayton probably knows our kids know because they know everything. Yeah. Like who's Walk of Locca? But he just played at an old Miss like Frat Party. I love his name. I mean, Walka Flocca. How did you come up? And Sir Clayton, of course, knew who he was. Okay. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:26

But I mean, he'll have to have somebody with him. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:30

I don't know. I don't know. They're not, they would shouldn't they tell that?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:33

I mean on with Bad Bunny. It doesn't sound so dumb.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:36

You know what they should have done. And I'm not joking. Because of everything that's going on and the patriotism that people are feeling, just where we are after Charlie Kirk, and that's a whole other story. But like, don't you think what would have been an amazing halftime show is like Jason Aldean, Cody Johnson, and Morgan Wallen. Like, why not? Because especially Morgan Wallins is huge. Morgan Wall. Well, and Cody Johnson, some of his songs. And then you've got Jason Aldean. I mean, these people are they're massive artists. There's no way they're gonna allow that to happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:12

And after Charlie Kirk's thing, they might need to have a they ought to have a worship artist.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

Well, I was listening to Brant Tomlin today on a podcast. Yeah, he's one of the I I think there's only four artists who have been played as much as Chris Tomlin. Oh, I can't remember. I mean three other ones. Like he's one of the four. We'll have Chris Tomlin. Have Chris Tomlin.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

Can you imagine Chris Tomlin Bad Bunny? Chris Tomlin opens for Bad Bunny. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:38

Yeah, we we talked to him this week. Um Bad Bunny? No, no, Chris. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:43

We're tight with Bad Bunny.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:45

Chris was so sweet. Like, if you ever wonder why somebody like that, you're like, oh because he's the nicest guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:53

I mean, this is Yeah.

Culture, Humor, and Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

I mean, honestly, you think about there's some Christian artists that they're technically I hate the word famous, just so you know, with Christian anything. Like to be famous in a Christian is weird to me. Like it's weird. I've never really liked that. Like when people are like, oh, back when Avalon was so big, and you're like, oh, your husband's famous. I'm like, ew. No, he's singing about Jesus, and just happens to be a lot of people like certain you know, and I don't, it's always it hasn't set well with me, right? When someone is famous. And it it might it's it's different when it's Hollywood or whatever. That's right. Yeah, you can be famous, but right Christians, I don't and I wouldn't want that if I had been a Christian artist. I wouldn't want to have been called famous if I had have had a yeah, you have a lot of people follow you, but I don't know. That's just my own little personal issue.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:43

But he talked about that actually. He said he was in a in a podcast with or in an interview with somebody who's kind of trying to back him into a corner, like, oh, you are of course they were this Christian, you're a Christian worship leader or whatever, but yet you're signing, and he said, Well, I'm just the moon, I'm just reflecting the you know Jesus, which you wrote a song about that years ago. I know that's awesome. Um what was your song?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:05

It was called I'll Be the Moon.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:07

I'll be the moon. It was actually called I'll Be the Moon. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

I'll be the moon. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:13

Yeah, but he has he has a new song on a song on his new record about being the moon, just reflecting Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:20

Uh you can't put moon in a song. I mean, there's just no way you can do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:24

Oh my gosh, this dog, I'm gonna kill her.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:26

You can't hear it in the headphones, by the way. Now you just you just said with no context, I'm gonna kill my dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

Well, because it's she's scraping up there. She just wants to kill.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:35

Yeah, no, you can't put moon in a song.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

That is a weird now. I think about that.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:39

Like, that's because of moon. I mean, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:43

Why do you write? I mean, do you is it a songwriter so like do you try to roll it?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:46

Do you girls like well, your stepdad and I would know why? Because you moon people.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

Oh I didn't even think of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:53

I was thinking of like no, it's the same reason you can't name your kid Richard.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:59

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:00

You can't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

But what when did that okay? Right, we did that. Never mind. I know that's just we can't. But seriously, when did that start? Because that's a ridiculous. I do not understand when that's my family's name. My my dad's name is Richard. People call him Dick. No, we call him Ricky or Rick.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:17

Not Dickie.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:18

No, we don't call him Dicky.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:20

I kind of like the name Dickey. I think it's cute.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

Well, we have a friend named Eli Dickey, and I and I love his name. I think it's adorable. Eli, but you can't.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:28

I love that race car driver, Dick Trickle.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:31

Dick Trickle. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:32

That's his name, Dick Trickle. He is the best.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

That's an unfortunate.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:37

I mean, he's retired now, but what are we at? I loved I loved when uh we're good. We're at like 120. Oh, we probably need right now. I loved when Dick Trickle was. I mean, what boy wouldn't like Dick Trickle?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:49

Oh no. It's pretty funny. That's good. I mean, especially, no, when you're an adult, people think you're being immature, but when you're a kid, that would have been pretty amazing. Every time they said your name in class, everybody'd be like, Trickle Dick. Trickle.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:04

Trickle. Dick. Stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

That's what happens when you get old. You get trickle.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:11

I don't know if Jody has experienced this at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:13

Prostate issues, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:15

Hey, because Jody's older then. Well, Jody is older. Now, Jody has heart issues, but thank God, praise God. Is he okay? So he did a stem cell thing at Vandy. Like uh he was in a study. Oh, okay. And and I mean they wore a hazmat suit to come in and give him these injections. And it was weird. He was really sick, like taking chemo. He was really, really sick. I think Sir Clayton, well, that's why I left Provenant, because he got so sick. Oh, okay. And we had like a four-year-old. And and so, and then I got Lime. So it was like seriously.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:45

So we need to have a whole nother episode about this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:48

Yeah. I mean, it's a it's a lot. Like, you know, when you do talk about this, and I I know because how do you still feel? Like I remember you and I met one day about MS.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

Because that's when they thought I had you had that. Yeah. They sent me to MS specialists and and with all my scans and everything, and they thought I had MS.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:07

Yeah, a lot of the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

We had similar symptoms, right? So how are you feeling?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:11

I feel good. I mean, I took it. I took two two years of chemo.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:16

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:17

It just sort of I mean, what they say is it's not a cure, but it'll it try to beat it into like remission. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of how our so far, so good, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

Well, I would I mean, I honestly I totally forgot until I just said it. I'm like, oh my gosh. Right. I remember us meeting. I think a Kroger used to have one of the rest one of the uh grocery stores used to have a little place to sit and eat. The skanky Kroger? No, which one? No, was it here? Where was it? We sat in Tar Sidney used to have something had a little restaurant, not restaurant, but you could go get stuff from the deli and then sit down.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:50

Isn't it funny that everyone in Franklin, if you say the skanky Kroger, and everybody knows exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:54

Oh no, no, not by the Skanky Kroger. It's it's too fine. Yeah, you're risking your life with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:59

But yeah, I mean I like the skanky Kroger, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

It's a better, honestly, it's it's nicer on the inside than some Kroger. And the outside is sketchy. Yeah, it's yeah, it's sketchy for such.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

And then one day I went to Skanky Kroger and Bob Woller was working there. I'm like, Bob Woller worked at Skanky Kroger.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

He was funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:17

He was the butcher at Skanky Kroger for a while. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:22

He worked at the record company for people.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:23

Again, I was so jealous because y'all it looked like that side of the building was having so much fun. They were, and they were we weren't, of course.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:32

Bob especially was having a good time.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:34

Bob was having a really good time. Yeah. We didn't allow ourselves to enjoy it very much, but because we can't. You couldn't well, no, it wasn't even that. No, we were like, no, you guys are crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:45

Well, I mean, and we had fun. I mean, uh, Jason MacArthur, um, Brooke Elder, Brooke Tucker, I don't know which one. Yeah, but you know, like we had uh Jackie Marushka, yeah, Michelle Box. It was Pearson at the time. I mean, like the list I'm probably feeling Dean Deal, George King.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:03

Yeah, those guys were funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

Well, George George King and Dean hired me. Uh let me I have to tell you really.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:09

George was the one that I was like, you know, he was funny. I don't think this is a good fit for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:14

Oh, well, he was he was great though. I have to tell you, he was awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:18

A lot of, you know, for for a lot of people this is kind of like inside baseball, but the music business is small, and inside of that is the CCM world, which it you could fit us all in a building.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:30

Oh, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:31

And so, you know, it's just you know, when we get back together. But anyways, you didn't you have a couple things you want to talk to her about? Because you're about wrapping this up.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:39

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know, but I mean, should she should she come back and do the part of the stuff? We're gonna have to come back and do uh politics. We're gonna have to do politics and we're gonna have to do conspiracy theories.

unknown 1:21:49

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Because this is how I know that Stephanie and I have a lot to talk about, is because we are we align on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:56

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:57

Except for all your football stuff. I just am like tap, tap, tap. Just go on by it because I don't get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:03

The last time I saw your Instagram, I think you were in football gear.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:07

I have been known to be in football gear.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

I'm like, is she in the WNFL, which is a thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

I wouldn't want to do that. I I would want to play with the boys. I don't want to play with the girls. I want to play with the boys. Okay. Okay. I uh Sarah Clayton, I love it so much. Sarah Clayton, I people can make fun all day long, but Sarah Clayton could have been a quarterback. Her arm was insane. I think that's why she was so good in lacrosse. Could have been a quarterback. I mean, she could listen, she's we started very like when she was really little. I've always loved football. That was something I watched a lot with my my real dad when I would have my weekends with him. Chicago Bears. See, I love NFL.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:46

I just don't like college very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:47

Well, I don't like the NFL because they get so political. I just want them to stop being political and just play football and have fun. I just like the game because it's I love the game, right? Right. And I I I don't it's probably wrong to say just play football and don't get political. It's just let's just don't make anybody mad. Let's just there's just no need to talk about it. Not this time, not for this. Like you talk about it on the side, but during a game, I I don't know. It's just my personal opinion. But because I grew up Dallas Cowboys, if I had all the money in the world, I would buy the Dallas Cowboys. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:15

I would you'd need it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

I would need it all. But I mean, I I would, I would buy them.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:19

Did you watch the documentary?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

I started to.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:22

Did you watch a cheerleader documentary?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:24

Oh, yes, I've watched those. I wanted to be a Dallas Cowgirl cheerleader. Oh, and I was one at a at a Halloween. I could see that Kathleen Dwayne Ward. I don't know if you know Dwayne. Oh, yes. So we used to have massive when he lived next door to Michael W. Smith, and they have those little houses on the bottom floor. They had a dance, they had a dance floor in a couple of years.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:42

We went we watched Super Bowl in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:43

Actually, we did. We went there and watched the Super Bowl. Okay, so we had a huge Halloween party. Oh. And I was a Dallas Cowgirl cheerleader. And back then, you know, we didn't have phones, so I don't know where the picture is, but there is a picture when I was thin and could actually look at thin stuff. No, but I'm you know what I'm saying. You're 19. Yes, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:00

So you're those people that go to the party in you dress up.

unknown 1:24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:04

We went to our neighborhood party over in Willow Springs, and it was all our neighbors. And two of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:09

Listen, we're there with our neighbors, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:11

Like the ones we see, like we see them every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:14

And then we were I went as Tony Stark with Pepper Pot. And so we just That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:19

And he had the little light on the back. I could totally see that.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:21

Yeah, I mean, but it was like we didn't, it was like it was normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:24

We're wearing clothes, right? We're wearing normal clothes, just kind of like yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:28

Yeah, our neighbors came as babies.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:30

In diapers.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:31

In just diapers. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:33

Okay, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

I mean, they're walking around.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:35

I don't want to know that much about my neighbor.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:37

Oh, though, so they weren't fake, like you know you can get the baby costume? No, in a diaper. Like a depend. But see, that's yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:45

And we're like just dipping stuff. Like, we're like, this is so gross. I cannot wait for us to talk about this when we leave.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:52

Like it was I I don't want to know that. See, my brother had the bet my brother won Halloween. And you know who else used to win Halloween? And Kendan and Aaron can tell you this. Kendan and Aaron Benward. I believe they came, so Aaron's been on here before. One of the oh, I love them so much. They were really, we were all friends. Wade, that was enough. We had we made up a game and we played now. It's probably called Fishbowl that kids play. But we we made up a game 30 years ago and we play it with our families. I mean, I fine, yeah. We had so much fun with them.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:20

That'd be fun with Ken and Aaron. Oh, they're so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

Yeah, I love them so much. But but Ken and Aaron came to that part. Wade was the unobomber. Oh my gosh. Oh, perfect. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

He was like, Because that would be easy.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:33

That would be just you didn't recognize him though. Well, just a hood and then the glasses. Oh, and that would be the easy thing. He had gotten a U.S. postal, you know, you're not supposed to take them, all those things. And it had packages all in it. And because our company, we did merch. And so he printed out labels of like all the people. It was it was lovely.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

All the people he ate. No, unibomberg.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:53

Yeah, unibomber. Um, he was just in Timberlake one year and inside like you know, when they were um had their own dolls. So he was inside it. Oh and he was like folding the plastic and he was just in Timberlake. I love it. Pina's wife were Justin and Britney in the blue jean outfit. Oh, just like um the year before he passed, they were Rose and Jack, and it was the best costumes. And oh, they were Kenny and Dolly, but they switched. Oh how so Wade was Dolly and um and she was Kenny and it's um the if you ever go like to her Instagram or mine, I have it on mine. Okay, um, but Wade had awesome costumes, he did amazing things. But Ken and Aaron were at that party. Um, I'll never forget it because I when they walked in, I'm like, that is the cutest. They were and you don't think, oh, that that's cute. No, they went all out. He was the scarecrow, and she was Dorothy, and you can totally see that, right? Oh, totally. She's beautiful, and she's just like her. But his costume as a scarecrow was unbelievable. Oh, I believe it. And and we had a costume contest that year because we had so many people that came, like, I mean, then people came that we didn't know. Like people crashed it because they found out about it. It was I don't know how they did that back then without Snap Map or whatever. Right. Yeah, I think we had like 300 people there.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:08

Oh my god. Weird oh at their house.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:11

Yeah, we had a DJ and everything. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:13

Have we done Halloween ever? Like you and me.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:17

Just that one time.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:19

Just that one time.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:20

Did you let your kids trick or treat? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:22

If they wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:23

I'm big on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:23

I don't, I don't like it. We just wouldn't do demons, witches. Like I was my my parents one year got really, really like we went to Two Rivers, but you know, we're Southern Baptists and they got really convicted. Really convicted, and we had to go to you know trunk or treat that was in the gymnasium, and we had to like fish, like we had to be Bible characters and fish for scripture verses. And here's my thing I get that. Like I get that as a parent, you're like, I do not want to introduce, like, if I'm being a part of something that's demonic, I do not play with that. You do not play with the demonic, you do not play with the spiritual realm. People think that it's no big deal. It is absolutely a big deal. We don't there's no need to mess. Uh we you don't mess with that. I'm sorry, I'm sort of and then so but my but then after that, I was like, please don't make us go to trunk or treat again. He wore, what did you wear?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:13

Well, I mean, I You did Trunk Retreat, but who were you, Moses? I did not do trunk or treat. So I grew up in Methodism.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:19

Okay, which is kind of Christian.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:21

I went to my church, I went to my church Halloween party as Dracula.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:26

Oh my gosh. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:28

Well, mom got me the costume. She helped me get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:31

And you're a vampire. She got me not a demon.

unknown 1:28:35

Come on.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:36

But you know, that was this is this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

This is the kind of we would have church parties at our farm, and my parents would put on a big um like a hayride, and it was haunted, and they would do a haunted hayride.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:49

See, I loved haunted hay rides. I thought that because no one did anything. They'd just be spooky. Yeah, somebody jump up and go, rah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:55

Yeah, it wasn't grew up in that and it was like, oh yeah, it's fun. Like we had the YFC in our town. Now I never went to it. Jesus Christ. I don't like being scared. But my parents told me stories about going to it where the YFC was so scary. Like it it was like they called it Scream in the Dark. And they would like they could at this time, like they could reproduce. They could grab you and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:18

Yeah. Oh no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:20

Yeah, they wore mom mom wore a football helmet to it. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:24

They can touch that. No. I'm there's a lawsuit. No, no, no, you don't touch me.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:30

How many times did we hear about like hell's heaven's flames and orange?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:35

Well, we've had we had judgment house. Two rivers did a judge had a judgment house. That's what that basically is. Kids brought I mean youth groups from youth groups from all around came and they I mean by the busloads, and I was in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:48

These these people, these people become my clients. I'm just letting you know. These are the ones that I talk to every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:55

Oh no, I probably did that to some people. Yeah, I mean, I was in I I was in the Hell San. It was awful. I mean, I'm I'm not joking.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:02

No, no, it's it sounds terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:05

Well, it started with a the the one I remember the most. And we were like on the news and winning people to Jesus. Just I mean, you're s no, you're scaring them to death. These teenagers are like, I do not well, because they had a camp, they had a camp scene. The very first thing, and it was you all three. I know what this is. I know what this is. This was like two rivers because that was a big mega church. Yeah. And so our building B, which they tore down and Wade and Um Gary and I, my stepdad, we all went and took bricks from it, and we still have them. Um, but anyway, so we we probably weren't allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:39

But we went this comes out sort of before it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:42

This could be a Halloween episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:43

They need that people need to send Halloween stories in.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:46

Oh, it'd be so fun. It would be fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:48

Christian Halloween stories. Send us your Christian stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:54

Yeah. Because that'd be so fun. Like you're if you grew up as a Christian kid, what was your Halloween like? Yes. Because that there's a yeah, there's probably some great.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:04

The first time I ever heard that Halloween was bad was from her.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:07

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But it was my family, my family which were Southern Baptists too, and for a while we didn't even have a Christmas tree. This is what we're dealing with. Like that's how convicted they got.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:17

And in in my house, Santa brought up.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:19

We just had one year. We just had one year.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:21

In my house, Santa brought the gifts.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:22

Yeah. Santa Blah, Santa brought our gifts, too. But yeah, we just had one year. No Santa in my house. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:28

Actually, it was your mom that told me he's Satan Claws. Yeah, she called him and she said it's the same letters. Santa's reading letters. She said, Jeremy, it's the same letters. Uh it is the same letters. And I said, I was like, oh, it is the same letters.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:42

Oh no. I was like, I was like, tell me more, Kathy.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:46

And she's like, Well, you don't know about the rich crackers and the sublime.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

I was like, What are you talking about? Listen, my mom, if if you guys we need to have her off.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:55

Have your mom.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:56

I want to hear, she's way more interesting than me.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:58

I want to hear that conspiracy theory. She dug the rabbit hole. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:02

She did. She made the rabbit hole years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:05

Oh man, she exposed Disney for me. She exposed Rich Crackers and the Subliminals.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:11

Not just Rich Crackers.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:12

Please, no, I don't want to know about Ritz. I like what?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:15

Eat them.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:16

We can't do anything. Like, we can't eat anything. We can't go anywhere. There's sex.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:20

There's sex written on the molds of the rich crackers to keep you coming.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:23

Because of the it's subliminal.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:25

Well, I will say in my youth group, what was sublim they said was subliminal is um uh what is the song they said if you played backwards? Yes. Um it would say another one bites the dust. Really said another one smoke marijuana backwards. I think it said something about cocaine. Or listen, I've heard it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:44

I know all of it. Like I remember going to youth group one night and they said that addiction starts. Oh my god. Because I listened to all those words.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:51

Oh, subliminal subliminal things.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:53

Your Lyme's disease. This is gonna I know this is a we gotta end this, though. But your Lyme's disease thing, Lyme disease.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:59

Yeah, horrible depths Lyme disease thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:05

Lyme disease. Okay perk something. So I have a client who's got a family member with Lyme disease. I'm sorry. And is now she takes Kratum for Lyme disease.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:19

What the heck is Kratom?

SPEAKER_04 1:33:20

Kratom is that stuff that was in that energy drink I was drinking.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:24

Gas station crack. No. Have you heard of this gas station heroin? Oh, if it's something my daughter drinks to get through class, I'm gonna die. No, no. If you get it at the counter, it's like a five-hour energy drink. Oh no. Okay. She drinks those like not bangs, but something like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:39

So it was plant-based. It was on sale at twice daily for$1.99.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:43

I was like, so therefore I must buy it and drink it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

So I was like, let me try this. So I drink it and I'm like, yeah, it's nice. So then I showed it to her. I was like, you should try this. There's no caffeine in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:54

I was like, I can't read the ingredients. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:56

I put I put my glasses on.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:58

Is it a law it's not a lawnia? There's like several new. It's a little one. Oh, it's tiny. It's tiny, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:03

So, anyways, she looked it up.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:06

And I'm like, oh yeah, kids are knocking over convenience stores to get to this stuff. Why? Because it helps you not eat. No, because it's gone. Because it is literally, they call it heroin.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:15

It's got this kratom stuff in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

It's not a high as much as it just makes you feel good and then you're addicted. Oh, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:22

I'll tell you what, if heroin feels like that, it's nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:26

But maybe don't go out and try to figure that out. This is how we knew, is because he quit taking it and he's like, I feel like I'm I just don't feel good. I feel like I'm going through withdrawal. Well, I have that's why I'm about to coke. I have headaches, really bad headaches. No, no, no, withdrawal.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:41

After I got MS, I got addicted to opiates for about two years. And but I didn't know that you were addicted?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:49

No, I just because it you didn't you take one and you're addicted?

SPEAKER_03 1:34:52

Like it's uh, but anyways, I was taking um it wasn't like addicted, like I have to have it was oh, I don't want the pain to come back, so I'm gonna take it ahead of time.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:01

So I'm taking like four, five, six a day of hydros and percocets, and my doctor said this is not a long-term solution. Now, granted, this 15 years ago, he's like, we'll do this, and then in the meantime, we're gonna try to find something that does this, uh, takes away your nerve pain. So they did, they found something, and so I just quit. And so meanwhile, she booked us a doctor appointment with a new family doctor. I write about this in my book because it's kind of funny. So we go in there. I'm a writer, by the way. I'm a pretty big deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:37

Um, you're Jeremy Dibler, I know who you are.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:39

So we go, he she says her name right, so she actually does know it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:43

She does know I worked with y'all. I did one of your photo shoots as true you did.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:47

So we go to the doctor, and I'm not feeling good.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:51

He's sweating, so I'm and I'm like, I have a baby, and I'm like, what is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:55

So I don't know where this woman was from, but she had this weird accent, and she's like, She kept calling him Geronimo. She's calling me Geronimo, and I Mr.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

Geronimo talked her to John Cat.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:03

I corrected her the first time, and then after that. She was the nurse, Mr. Geronimo, and so she's taking my blood pressure, and she goes, Uh, Mr. Geronimo, are you feeling okay? And I was like, No, I'm sweating. I'm like, no, not really. I feel pretty bad. But and so then I'm talking to the doctor and I was like, I'll stop taking hydrocodone a couple days ago. He goes, Well, how long did you take it? I was like, about two years. He's like, Yeah. It's gonna get pretty bad here in a little bit. Oh no. So he goes, if he goes, if you weren't a dad with a family and stuff, I'd put you in rehab. Oh no, it's gonna get it's it's gonna get really bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:41

And it did. It did.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:43

So no, Jeremy, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:45

I had this happen twice.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:46

So my gosh. That's horrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:49

Then so they get me on then the I had another MS episode, and my doctor's like, look, I'm gonna put you on tramadol. It's not it's not habit forming, it's not narcotics, so you're not gonna get high. And so I took eight of those a day for seven years. Same thing happened. One weekend I was like, you know what? I'm tired of taking this. I want to see how I feel with this.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:09

Oh my god, I had to take a freaking toxinol. Right here. What you're telling me is why I don't take anything. Yeah. So it was terrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:15

I'll never eat. I've taken hydrocotone since I won't look at a tram at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:19

It was horrible.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:21

They say it is comparable to heroin.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:23

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:23

And I had had a friend, you know, Scott Williamson. Yeah. He's really bent back. And he had taken it with drawing.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:29

Because we used to talk all the time because I'm on lines.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:32

I called Scott and I said, Hey, I haven't taken this for about four days and I am coming unglued. He goes, Oh boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:37

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:38

He goes, I just I feel so bad for you. But it's same thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:42

We went to the doctor and he said, Well, you're through the worst of it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:45

You may as well just he's like, just you're just gonna have to He goes, You could start taking it and trickle down.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:50

He goes, but you He's like, You're already through some, but he wasn't through the worst. It was, I mean, it was probably a month long of I mean I tried.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:58

I mean, when I say I couldn't, I couldn't lay down and I couldn't stand up.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:03

He would literally just pace the house.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:04

For a week I paced and cry.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:07

And I was like, What are we doing? What are we doing? It was awful.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:11

I mean, she'd go to the pool and say, I don't want to leave you alone. Yeah, it was awful. I was like, Well, I'm not gonna kill myself if that's you're worried about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:17

Yeah, I was. I was really worried. Well, I mean, he was not your body is trying to detox that. Yeah, and he's like, I feel like I lost my best friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:26

And she finally said, Well, if you did, you'd have to go on.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:29

Like you, you know, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:32

Are you leaving?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:35

Don't leave without family. Well, you know, I'm allergic to codine and hydrocodone, percocet, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:39

Oh, that's probably a gift.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:40

Well, what you saying that it's like I can't imagine during the throes of how sick I was, knowing how sick you were, knowing Scott Williamson's story. Yeah, like I couldn't take anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:52

Well, Easley and Scott Williamson had both white-knuckled their way off of it. And I knew both of them, thankfully, and I called them both, and they both were like, oh man, just hang in there. And look, over the after the first week, it does get like I would I could shuffle a little bit, but I can't imagine going through it for you because I was just watching it rock.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:15

Scary.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:16

I mean, it's just it's worse than MS, it's worse than chemo, it's worse than any of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:22

Like, it is and they're giving it like that's that's a whole nother right.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:28

That's what makes me so angry about whatever everything that's going on right now. Yeah. It's they're giving you, they're just not anymore. Hopefully they're gonna change that.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:38

Now they've what I have found out with the medicine that I do take now.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:42

Now we can't get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:43

Now you can't even get like that's Tennessee, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:46

That's not all over. True. Tennessee has got its own.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:49

Now the people that need the medicine in California, we were they were like, Well, like Jody, when he he got diagnosed with diabetes right before my brother passed away, and his numbers were so high, they're like, We want you on the not ozen, like the GLP one. Yes. And he couldn't get it because everybody's taking it to get skinny, and he couldn't get it. Yeah. Oh my god. And so it took a while to but he need I mean, is it helping? Well, he says that's it saved his life because he dry he is he skinny? He he's gained a little bit of it back, but I th in some ways I like him when he's a not that skinny, but like at around my brother's time of all that, he says it saved his life because he carries his weight in his chest.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:30

Yeah, like he's me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:32

He's like he's a bear, and and I think it's a s I always say it's a singer thing too. Like he needs his interest. His rib cage is huge. Him too. His rib cage is huge.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:43

His pawpaw too is the same.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:44

What my girls don't understand is I can't do anything quiet. Like if I try to just talk to them in church, they're like, Shh, you don't realize how loud you are.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:53

He can't whisper. He doesn't know how. Does Jody know how to whisper?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:57

He no, he always tells me this is a funny thing about our marriage. He will say something like, Shh, Jody, you don't say that out loud. And he's like, No one is listening. Yes, they are. Everyone's always listening, everybody is listening.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:10

She does that at home if she wants to talk about somebody behind their back, and it's just her and it's her and I at home. No one else, you can't she'll get real quiet, like, you're not gonna believe what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:20

And Jody's again.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:20

And I'm like, speak up because it's just us.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:23

It's just us. And Jody will say that to me, but if we're out at dinner and he he always says full names. Oh and I'm like, what are you doing? It's not like we talk about people, it's like if something we do talk about people, but if like something happened, yeah. No, like there's a couple sitting here, and he's like, they can't hear me. And I'm like, they absolutely can because I hear every word they're saying. Yeah, because I'm totally listening to what happened to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:52

What's going on, mother sister last week? Like, absolutely, and I'm following you, and I can hear, I can hear three.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:58

I will tell my one of my biggest pet peeves. I don't know if you guys in a restaurant, there's always one person that's so loud. I hate it, and you can't hear they're at a table with their friends. You can't hear a word that anyone else is at that table saying, but you can hear everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:14

And we're like, dude, we want to know the other conversations. We we want to know what they're saying too.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:20

We both will we would rather eavesdrop than listen to each other talk.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:24

Well, we know we're together some all the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:27

So we'll just go ahead and be like, oh, what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:30

Hang on now, just a minute. I know it's like, hang on, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:34

We used to go to Jay Alexander's all the time, and Gwen Chamblin was there every time. Did you see?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:37

Did you used to go? Yes, she was always there, always there with that big hair.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:42

Yeah, it always so we're like, I hope they sit us near Gwen because we can hear I sat next to him all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:47

Don't bow down to the refrigerator.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:49

Yeah, she got in a fight with her.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:50

I got in a fight with Gwen Chamblin once. We need to tell that another time because we got to end this. This is very long. No, we're I'm not telling the Gwen Chamblin story. It's too long.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:58

No, no, no, you gotta tell it. We can tell it again.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:59

It's a forked tongue. That's what she told me. It's a forked tongue. She said that I, because I forget what I because I believed in the Trinity. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:09

Well, weren't you at a Bible study with her?

SPEAKER_03 1:43:11

I was at a thing, and she was yes, it was like a Bible study. My friend invited our next door neighbor was big in that whole thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:18

Well, she started out big.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:19

Yes, and then and then they they she's like, You need to come to my Bible study with me. We talk about obedience. And I was like, all right.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:26

I mean, she lost like a human.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:28

Yeah, she did. She lost a lot of weight. Anyway, so I went to the Bible study with her while Gwen was teaching. And I didn't know. I mean, she's like, We're at the she was really nice. New church. Gwen was nice, wasn't she? I mean, sometimes she wasn't this day. Oh she told me I was not called out, I was not part of the remnant. I what just being at the Bible says she just picked you out of the group? No, I think I commented on something she said and she did not like it. I can't, I honestly can't remember what we were talking about.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:57

Yeah, I you had I came back and I we had driven together. I went and ran some errands while she was at this thing. It was in Cool Springs, and so I came back and picked her up and she's like, Well, I won't be coming back there.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:09

Oh, it was rough. Yeah, I mean, you well, you're just not called out.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:13

And Jennifer goes Jennifer said something like, Well, I don't know if it says that in the original text.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:18

Oh, she's like, I don't need I got my Bible right here. I don't need, I don't need the great. I got my Bible right here.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:26

So, of course, when she died in that plane crash, Jennifer's like, oh no, she didn't die.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:30

Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh no, she did. No. No, I have a friend that was friends with her. I I thought my friend was on the plane.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:36

Well, you think she's you don't think she's evading taxes somewhere? I think she died. And I'm a total conspiracy theorist.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:43

I mean, I will go down every rabbit hole to think that she died.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:46

Elvis?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:47

Alive.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:48

I struggle with that one. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:50

Wynona? Oh, I don't know that one. I know. I think I made it up. I Moonlanding. Moonlanding, I do not believe that. You gotta hear the Winona. Okay, I agree. I think Wynona is Elvis' daughter.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:03

Do you believe that because she sounds so similar?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:06

Because she does sound because was in Elvis movies. And she looks like Elvis. Oh, and she sounds like Elvis. Well, I think she sounds like she can't sing. You don't like her voice? No, Ashley. I love Wynona's voice. Oh, Winona's voice makes it.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:21

What I'm saying is it did Oh, I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:25

Like, I don't think Winona have the same dad.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:28

I could I you know, I hate to say I could totally see that, but I but I've always thought, and I've said this to Jody before, because we love Winona's judges. Oh, I love Wynona's. Sarah Clayton, when she was really little, was obsessed with the Juds. I mean, she's Jennifer. I was saying it's mama, you know, Mama, he's crazy. Oh, yeah. You know, uh, I mean, Sarah Clayton would sing. I she sounded like that's a thing, like kids, you know, they kind of mimic what they're yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:53

Were you at that dinner with us when when Wynona No, no, no, no, she wasn't there. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:57

Uh oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:58

Okay, but I was not on you out on the moon with the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:01

I knew Cactus, her husband, because he went to a church I went to before the So we knew Cactus. Highway 101. I knew I knew Cactus, but I but I I've met Winona, but I don't, I'm not, I can't, I don't have the privilege of saying back to the important stuff. Oh, important stuff, moon landing.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:15

You out on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

I'm totally out on moon landing. Amen, sister.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:18

Man, I have to say, there's some new stuff coming out about the moon landing. Now you have to you have to resign yourself that their dudes walked around on it, but they've found stuff on it that we don't know about. Helen, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:32

You could prove me. This is the most important thing. I know what you're gonna say, Helen Keller. I know you're gonna say Helen Keller.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:36

What about her?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:37

I believe she was real. I do not believe she flew a plane. You want to tell me that you are blind? He doesn't believe she even existed. I believe she existed, but didn't she? Okay, so this is really funny. I wish you need to have I tell you you need to have on here is Jennifer Christensen. She is a teacher at Christ Press, the coolest human being that's ever walked this earth. She is an English teacher. Well, the kids got in a huge debate over it. Oh, about Helen Keller. About Helen Keller. Oh, okay. And she put it on her insta because everyone follows her on Instagram. She's so fun to follow. And so um she lives in Mount Juliet, but um teaches drives all the way there. And and so she um had a poll, it devastated, I think it devastated her because the kids were like, it apps she absolutely didn't exist. And I said, Okay, I believe she existed, absolutely existed, but I believe didn't she have like a a necessity? Her handler, her caregiver.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:37

I believe that that's where that came from. Do you think she wrote the books and all the things? How can she? No, I mean the handler. The handler wrote the books. The handler did it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:46

I think she did it all because okay, and then I'm not I I didn't go to Harvard. I did not go, uh, you know, I did it doesn't take someone going to Harvard. I went to university. I will I went to Union University and then came home with the uh University Mobile. Then I went to Tear Design School because I did not go to college.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:05

Oh I went a lot. Listen, I went to college too much.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:09

You can talk, hear, and see. Could you write a book? And could you fly a plane?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:15

Maybe. Go write a book, but I'm not. Con sense tells you if you can't from what she was 11 months old or something that happened when she was like I know, I think. But you can't see, you can't hear, you can't speak.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:29

But you can write a novel.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:31

And fly a plane. I'm with you. How is how they made us believe this?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:36

This is what okay, he flew an F-16. I'm sorry, what? Yes. But when I say he flew an F-16, he was not in it by himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:46

Just like Helen Keller probably went, I believe she existed a second. I believe she existed on the on the steering wheel of the airport.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:53

What was the conversation like trying to get her on that plane? They would have had they would have had to somehow explain to her what a plane is.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:02

They were doing it in her hand.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:03

Whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:04

Yeah, but yes, they did it in her hand.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:07

I can't even take a cue from you at a restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:10

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:11

Not to turn it.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:12

Kicking him under the table. Why are you kicking him? Why do men do that? Why are you kicking me? It's not all men. Shut up. It's not all men. I think it's just ours. I'm like, shut up. Shut up. I'm kicking you for a reason. Shut up. I will be at a table with another couple. I kick him. Why'd you just kick me?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:30

Okay, but that is the first human response when someone kicks you. No, it's not you.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:35

And I go, Oh, it must have been by mistake.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:37

Oh, I didn't mean to kick you. And then do it again. Stupid right in the shin. No, I yeah. Jody, do y'all ever have like these couples?

SPEAKER_04 1:49:46

He's gotta go.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:47

Oh, he's gotta go.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:48

Here's what we need to do. We need to get your friend the girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:52

The three of you just need to do a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:54

Oh, but her friend doesn't do conspiracy. You know what would be so funny? Is couples. Jody. Okay, let's go. Have Jody. Yes. Let's have Jodie. Now he he's trouble though. Oh, I like it. Like I've been nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:05

You didn't say shit or anything. You've this has been probably the most meaningful episode we've had.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:12

It is very meaningful. Well, it was very sweet. Thank you for sharing your story. Jeremy, like I am all they when they asked me to talk at Hope Clinic, my brother had bought a t the front table and he had given all the money for them to have their thing, and I had to speak. I thought I was going to die. Well, literally. Because I'm not, this is not my thing at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:34

Well, you thank you for sharing your story. I really appreciate it. I hope it wasn't like too too late. It was so interesting. I I loved it. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We're gonna have Jody and we're all gonna talk. Okay. All right. Bye. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:47

That's how you're signing off now? I don't know. When it was my podcast, you had to make a big deal out of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:52

You make a big deal now. You make a big deal about it. How about it's your big deal? I talked more about it. You're a big deal. You're you're a big deal.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:00

Jennifer Diabler is a big deal. That's the name.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:04

Definitely. All right, bye.