GoodGeist
A podcast on sustainability, hosted by Damla Özlüer and Steve Connor, brought to you by the DNS Network. Looking at sustainability issues, communications, and featuring global guests from a wide variety of sectors such as business, NGOs and government.
GoodGeist
Local Action, Global Change with Yunus Arıkan
In this episode we're talking to Yunus Arıkan, Director of Global Advocacy at ICLEI, to look at how local government is at the centre of global climate action, and why the path to 1.5°C runs through streets, budgets, and everyday choices. From the Earth Summit and Local Agenda 21 in the nineties to COP30 in Belém, we connect the dots between global agreements and real change on the ground.
We explore the three essentials every city needs to deliver: skilled teams that can steer investment, deep community engagement that builds consent and momentum, and visible leadership that models that shift.
Our conversation challenges the myth that only global capitals lead on the transition. Small and mid-sized cities often move faster, delivering zero-waste systems in Malaysia for example, or rapid fleet electrification at the scale of Guangzhou. The lesson is clear: innovation is not a postcode; it’s a mindset backed by governance.
Listen in if you care about sustainable urban planning, climate policy, and how to turn big goals into real outcomes – this conversation with Yunus offers practical insights and honest hope.
Follow GoodGeist for more episodes on sustainability, communications and how creativity can help make the world a better place.
Good guy. A podcast series on sustainability hosted by Donna O'Brien and Steve Connor. Brought to you by the DNS Network.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, hello everyone. You are listening to Good Guys, the message on sustainability, which is brought to you by the DNS Network, the global network of agencies dedicated to making the world a better place. This is Domla from Mira Agency Istanbul and This is Steve from Creative Concern in Manchester.
SPEAKER_02:This podcast series explores global sustainability issues, how they're communicated, and what creativity can do to make positive change happen.
SPEAKER_01:So in this episode, we're going to talk to Younus Ade Khan, Director of Global Advocacy at ECLA, Local Governments for Sustainability. It's a global network working with more than 2,500, yes, I made it, local and regional governments committed to sustainable urban development.
SPEAKER_02:I've got really excited about this one, Damla. So from 2009, Youngness has been the focal point for local governments, municipal authorities, serving as a spokesperson for cities and regions in the UN FCCC process, which is amazing. And you've been leading clays, other international bodies, multilateral agreements, establishment of the Bond Center for Local Climate Action Reporting, and worked as the Director for the Secretariat for the World Mayor's Council on Climate Change, Janice. So amazing track record. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Dana and myself.
SPEAKER_04:Hi, Domla, dear Steve. Thanks a lot. It's a great pleasure and honor to join this exciting dialogue. And thanks really for your interest. I'm really, really happy that we could share a couple of ideas together. And congratulations for your inspiration and networking.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, no, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, Jose. And I'm a bit of a fan of Ickley. So I'm having a bit of a moment. But first of all, we we love to find out about how people got to where they are, what's driven them. So uh tell us about your journey to to Ickle and and and leading that so our listeners can get a real sense of who you are.
SPEAKER_04:Excellent. So, well, my uh official track record, let's say, after 15 years of an environmental engineering career in the country in Turkey, I try to take my chance to the global space and an international organization. The the thing that made me drive the interest to ICLE was also the post, the the type of the announcement, the job announcement. The city of Bonn being the the host or the venue was important because Bonn is the center or host of the UNFCC as well. Uh and I joined in 2009 after like especially uh 10 seven to eight years of my climate professional career in the Turkish government as visor and to do NDP. That is the official story. If you want to hear the long story in a bit different world world words, yes, we do. Yes, we do. I had a destiny with ICLE. I'm so happy that you are aware of this. Icle is shortly, we can talk later on. But in 1992, I was a young university student in Otto, Matthew Windows Technical University, and that was the Earth Summit. We were going to the computer center, the dark rooms, dark screens. I was trying to be part of this global movement on the Earth Summit, and I heard later on Ickle was one of those who created this local agenda 21, which was a chapter also in our lives. And I think this was also connecting to me because environmental engineering has a big diversity. Urban and environment was something that is much more not just pure engineering and much but much more social change making. And advocacy is also something that I spoke speaks to my heart as an activist. I'm an environmental activist in Turkey, and ICLE was doing this in the global space. And creativity is something that you are talking about. I think this year we're talking about 35 years of ICLE. And finally, when I joined ICLE, I learned that one of the gurus of the urban development in Turkey, Mr. Murad Karayalchin, was one of the founders of ICLE. I learned this much, much later. It's a lot of connections. I'm so proud to be joining the last 15 years of this company or organization. Yeah, that's my story with ICLE.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's great. And Steve, for a little bit of background information, METU is the university that probably breeds troublemakers all around the world. For good. Excellent definition. Yes, we love those troublemakers in our in our podcast. And let's say that we are recording this session on the eve of 31st October, World Cities Day. And COP30 is just weeks away, and cities are at the heart of climate action. So can you give us a hint of the chatter around those dates regarding urbanization?
SPEAKER_04:Thank you, Damla, especially attracting this attention to this day and the connection to the COP30. It really helps us a lot to convey our messages. So climate change is in the global media a troublemaker for diplomats, for ministries of environment. But in fact, it's the local action that that changes. It will be the sustainable cities where it will define whether we will be successful for a better climate and better livelihoods. If we do not take action at home, that will not make too much changes. Diplomacy is not enough, it has to be going to the ground. But cities also cannot do this alone because of the big, big scale of challenges and the finances and the mobilization that is needed. So this year is a bit unique. You said COP30 for those colleagues, it will be in Brazil, Bellem. This is the capital of Amazon. But Brazil is famous as we have started the discussion 30 years ago, they hosted the Earth Summit. And this year's, it's like 30 years later, the idea of sustainable development that comes to back to Brazil and that wants to change in a bit new uh action-oriented process. And here is the good thing that Brazil has a legacy of multi-level collaboration. For us, the local government networks, we were in the sidelines for a long time, especially until the piracy agreement. When we are approaching the piracy agreement, we really made a change in the diplomatic arena. They considered us important levels of all levels of government. And over the past, especially five years, we have introduced this concept of multi-level collaboration so that it is a collective effort. And what we want to do in Ballet Monverse is that there is a multilevel and urban legacy in climate action in a more systematic way. It will not be easy, it will not be in a day's time, as we said, 30 years of life, 30 years of efforts. But we need this innovation, creativity in order to respond to the challenge of our current and future generations. So that's why we are so excited. And 31st of October, just one week before all starts, it will be important. Our agenda officially, the the the climate conference, is on the 10th of November in Belém. It's the official date, but in Rio, one week before 3 to 5 of November, there will be a big gathering of local leaders forum as well. So it's a journey of like three weeks in Brazil.
SPEAKER_02:Oh well, and let's hope a load, lots of progress can happen. I I'm so glad, Younes, you talked about the Earth Summit. Because I think that probably was the moment I became a full environmentalist. I was I was always green, but I remember the Earth Summit. I had the book. I in fact, if I look really carefully on my bookshelf, I can probably see the uh the Earth Summit report that came out. And I just remember it just sparked. And it was the first time I'd heard the phrase sustainable development. I I'd heard about environmentalism, but I heard somebody say sustainable development. I thought, what that sounds interesting. Oh amazing. So tell us, let's talk about your work with local authorities right across the world, because you've been doing that for so much time and know them really well. And I I think it's really interesting when we talk to somebody like you that has a real sense of a large cohort of municipalities and you've worked with them all. Are there any common themes that you find that challenge local governments in their climate action plans? What are the sort of headlines that you keep discovering time and time again?
SPEAKER_04:This is really an excellent introduction to the topic because indeed, especially so there were cities for the past thousands of years. Yeah. It is much more history than the nation states, which is has a history of like 200 years. If you go to Asia, Africa, Europe, Latin America, you see thousands of cities which has a thousand years back to history. But the cities of the world we live in are living the legacy of a dependence on fossil fuels. Our cities are are unfortunately transformed around the factories who were consuming fossil fuels, or our cities are designed for traveling from one from a house to a factory by cars, and and this this changed, unfortunately, many of the even the historical states and the new states, the cities that was built in the last hundred years was all dependent on this process. And obviously, because this ear this industrialization, urbanization was a legacy of the north, the the problems and the solutions were also primarily, and these 1990s primarily was coming from the north. But now, majority of the cities being in the south and and being aware the local tradition, uh local knowledge is also helpful. There were cities in the Zahara who have been acclimatized to the climate heat, urban heat for hundreds of years, and they knew how to live in, but the construction of the cement-based buildings do not uh align with that. So we have to go back to our urbanization principles, but of course, we do not go back to the the stone age. So when I was saying that there is not a silver bullet that it's always a richest city, the big city has all the problems, I said three three principles. If you have skilled staff of the city that that knows how to manage investments, if you have a good stakeholder engagement policy and process, which means communities are engaged with what the city is planning and then they they they follow and they contribute. And above all, if you have a visionary leader, which is the one that shows that yes, I am taking the streets by my bike, or I am using my solar power in my city hall. These are the three essentials. And if one fails, anybody can fail anywhere. Let me give the the example. New York City is, of course, our biggest charming city, but the city was flooded. You know, remember Cindy, and the city of Durban had their climate adaptation plan five years before New York City. The zero waste is a is a concept that is now very fashion. Sabarang Perai, I don't know whether any of you have heard about it. It's a city in Malaysia. They had zero waste like 10 years ago, and and the mayor of Sabarang Parai led UN Habitat for a while. So the small cities, the the low economic income cities do not are not limited by making innovation, and the the rich cities are not guaranteed that they are good in action. So that's my let's say main message.
SPEAKER_01:So it's kind of what you see and hear is not the whole story. You have to look for the other stories around the world, and that's a big part of your job, actually. You lead the global advocacy effort of Italy. And kind of this suggests a bilateral campaigning lane. I mean, one convincing local governments to strengthen their climate actions, and the other one is ensuring national and international policies to work in harmony with those local bodies. I mean, is that even possible?
SPEAKER_04:Well, excellent. So it is true for a long time it was uh mayors versus nations. There was this era. There was even, we have respect some some scholars. Benjamin Barble Barber is also one of those great, great leaders. If mayors rule the world, one of the books that he and he made this. And I don't want to highlight in person, but it is true that there were moments that nations were thinking of this taboo. So no one can talk about cities at the global level. The cities are my own, let's say, assets. That was the mindset for a long time as well. So these were these were the two different camps. Obviously, measures can also fail, and obviously, there are also national policies that can help cities, especially in cities which do not have capacities, whatever. So the term, as you said, Donna, multi-level was the term we started to build further. So it's not just recognition that there is another level of government, but they have to work hand in hand. This gained attraction since Glasgow, which is the neighbor from Manchester. The term multilevel, we inserted in the Glasgow Climate Pact, and in Dubai we made that the party's urge for that. So the term multilevel gained really attraction. Maybe I give you one example, whether this is possible or not, two examples, whether it's possible or not. I don't remember exactly, it was sometime around 2018 or so. There was the first Austrian climate summit. It was, of course, when you say Austria, you can imagine Schwarzenegger, as one of the most famous of son of Austria, but of course American and a Republican. He was the custodian of the summit. It was opened by the president of Austria, which is the Green Party leader, one of the first in the Europe as a Green Party as a president. And it was then continued with in the first year, the Prime Minister of Austria, which is was the social democrat in that year, and the year after, it was Christian Democrats. So you see, all colors of politics were there in the room discussing that we have to work together. Obviously, there are such examples that can prevail, and that's the reason since Dubai, we are creating together with Bloomberg and so many partners of this space an initiative called CHAMP, Coalition for High Ambition Multi-level Action Partnerships in the long term. But this is basically to develop the national climate plans, and it's a commitment of the nations to do this with their cities. So good news 77 nations have committed to do this. Whether they are doing it perfectly, obviously not. And we are helping, and together we'll build this process. We built a process that this is doable, and we have good news. You will see more in Riono, we will see more in Belem that countries like Brazil, Rwanda are coming with some good examples, and we want this to be the new normal, hopefully. But I also agree it is much harder than to speak, and it's a learning for everyone. Everyone has to step back a bit, but everyone has to step forward. But it is the only way to go forward if we want to change, face this challenge, the huge, gigantic challenge ahead of us.
SPEAKER_02:So I've got so many questions, and I'm gonna add some extra ones because they're coming to me as we're talking, Janice. It's amazing. So I've got two two quick two things for you to think about. You mentioned small cities or medium-sized cities, and and I remember we were lucky enough to work on a Bloomberg-funded series of reports around the urban challenge of decarbonisation for cities. It was amazing actually, and it's called urban transitions. And we had this one graphic in the report, it was an area graph, and it showed that kind of like, I don't know, 60%, maybe more, of the decarbonisation potential of cities was in cities that were basically one to two million in terms of population. It was really interesting. And I think, do you think we we tend to always think when we people talk about cities, you think about New York, Tokyo, Rio, and you forget that the vast majority of cities are these sort of smaller local authorities where the power dynamics and the economy is really different, maybe more agile. What I I this is we're getting in deep into urbanization here. It's like a geography lesson. But what do you think about those smaller cities? We need to refocus, don't we?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely true, because especially after the pandemic, there is a different style of urbanization, especially with the decentralization technology, digitalization, the cost of living in urban centers across the world is becoming more and more costly. People are fed up, and so the future, I also believe, will be in the intermediary cities, but even more. If you look at the UN Habitat reports, the current urbanization trends, we are talking about three billion people living in urban people, urban spaces, and around one-third of them are still urban poor, and and they don't uh have decent conditions. So it's not always the fancy high-rises that we have, or uh the the nice urban neighborhoods are not always the the face of the cities, you know that, and be it in the north and south. But the the fact is that an equal amount of people, or half of it, even at least half of it, will come into new cities in the next three decades. And this will be in the spaces which doesn't exist even. So imagine maybe you are hearing a new Jakarta is being planned in another island. Cairo has transferred its all city center, the old Cairo still exists. Khum, the city of Iran, and even Tehran, is moving now. So, and this will be happening in the global south mainly, the new cities. And this this is in fact the reason why we have to speak about multi-level collaboration, because it is not the current mayors or governors planning for these cities, for good or for worse. It is mainly in the hands of the national governments, especially in the global south. And they they can make a lot of mistakes. And one of the biggest challenges of urbanization is that it's the lock-in effect. If you plan your city in a wrong urban model, still repeating the mistakes of the past several hundred years, you will lock in a carbon embedded that you cannot change even with tiny incremental solutions. So the the current very good and ambitious uh examples in Montreal, Paris, Bonn, even I can say that Bonn, my city, is proud to be Germany's capital for Balkan photovoltaics in just five years. So everybody can be a leader in their own territories. And the question is how can we transfer and scale up faster in especially global south, but also in the global north, which has not been taking this direction. So, in fact, there is a new type of urbanization evolving, and we have to build it in the sustainable manner if we want it to really serve, not be a barrier to our climate movement.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like there is a small trick in what you say. Yes, after the COVID, people want more decentralized, more flexible types of urbanization and living and working. But on the other hand, for the last two or three years, we see that the politics has a trend of a more centralist attitude. So it seems that the general trend of living and the general trend of politics is kind of in a tension. Where is the trick to make it harmonious?
SPEAKER_04:Indeed, if I mean this issue, when we say local, there were issues. I mean, the terminology is also a challenge. So when we say urban or or or local, there are some people who were saying, oh, what you are ignoring the rural population. But we were saying that a sustainable urbanization is also helpful for sustainable land use planning and territorial planning. And it's true in all around the world, these political choices, there was you have seen it in the Brexit, uh Steve, you have felt it from the first hand, you have seen it in the UK, in the US. This the central metro areas and their challenges with the the their territories is becoming even even distractive or competing to each other. So, in that sense, that's the reason why we have to build this notion. What is a city? If you are growing your tomatoes in the urban urban gardens, or if you can connect to a world from a 5,000 city somewhere in in Africa or in the US, it it's the definitions are are grey now. It are not anymore black and whites. So I think, and and finally, there we have to, that's why we have to find new solutions, creativities in in making the people feel that they're in this. That was one of the things that I really loved about these 1990s. It's just the one village notion. The globalization is under attack, and and in fact, ICLE is also paying this off because it's true in those 1990s, there were two types of globalization. We were the good globalization, there were some bad globalization, and we are paying the cost of the other guys. But I think it people have to be reminded that the good globalization guy is also a good localization guy. They are the ones who really want you to survive better in your own localities, and this has to be happening everywhere, not in just a privilege for a rich people, not a privilege for those lucky ones, but it has to be an opportunity that everybody can seize, and that's what we can change in the future that is serving the inequalities of today.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing. Damla, I'm just I'm gonna apologize in advance. We are gonna run over on time on this episode. We're just gonna carry on talking. Because I'm my head's exploding from good globalization. Because I mean, nobody listening to this podcast will be surprised to hear that I am on the left of politics. And and I grew up you know in an activist space where globalization was the big bad boogeyman, and the idea that there is a good globalization is really powerful. Can I talk to you? I don't know where this translates very well into other cultures and other languages, but in the UK, we have this crazy dessert called a trifle, okay? And it's trifle where you have jelly on the bottom, and then you have this sponge cake in the middle, and then this kind of whipped piece on top. It's absolutely gross and horrible. Anyway, but those layers I find really interesting. So let's talk about urbanization. This is a terrible analogy as a trifle, as a this cake, because I think at the moment it's really fascinating that we have this trend towards nationalism at the nation-state level, and these populist leaders building a nationalist right-wing, violent narrative which is grinding against your good globalization and your multilateral agreements, you know, and the the sense of unity of a world that needs to come together to fight challenges like climate change, but also nature and you know and human rights. And then you you you have cities who sometimes now are in conflict with those nationalist populist leaders and still have alliances like your own, Iclay, where you know our city leaders look to Bonn and then we look to you know Rio or Sao Paulo, or we'll talk to each other, or through other networks like C40, there will be these alliances that transcend this nationalist surge of right-wing thinking and almost re-establish all those international connections, that good globalization that you're talking about by going over the heads of these nationalist leaders. I it's a fascinating time, isn't it, to be navigating these political waters.
SPEAKER_04:Well, first of all, I'm also one of those speaking from the left of his heart and the body, and but it's also true that doesn't guarantee that all those in our side is also doing the right things or the correct things. So, and and there are certain that was the example I gave. We wish that there are cases where it does not necessarily tie to your politics, and that's what we want to decouple because when it this was the famous words of again, we are referring to Bloomberg, but when it comes, uh if if a disaster hits, it doesn't change that it goes, it doesn't go to the the the red flags uh the neighborhoods or the red uh the blue flags neighborhoods. We have seen this in Florida and other all these disasters. The mayors should also be, at least in that sense, and the national governments should not differentiate when they invest in the choices. However, it is it is it is a challenge in in that sense. I think what we are also seeing is I mean, making a change in an existing city is difficult because you are asking citizens to change their habits. Change is one of the hardest things to make. We have seen in 2013 in Korea, Suwon, we have tested the first fossil fuel car-free zones, not just for one day. You remember in the Europe it was one day car free? Yeah, we tested it for one month. When the mayor joined with Ikle, our our colleague Conrad was uh the pioneer on that. He said that I will close the district of 5,000 in the central business district for one month, no cars. He started to react, receive reactions, everybody was protesting. And in Korea, you can imagine, Korea is very powerful. Everybody were on the streets. The mayor literally risked his career. So it was six months of dialogue with the community, and at the end of the day, it was a one-year project, and it it happened to be a fantastic model. Uh, you can you go go to the films. Three months later, there was elections, and that mayor has won, was re-elected with the highest margin in across Korea, and it he became the vice governor of his region, and now he's member of parliament. He's one of those who were making in in Korea in the last past couple of months. So if you make change correctly, you can you can succeed. But Berlin, for example, failed. Friedrichstrasse, it was fantastically uh uh turned into uh four lanes uh from from uh car traffic to uh people sit sitting on the streets having their coffees and biking. There were economic thriving, but suddenly stopped. The mayor changed, politics changed, and if you go to Berlin again, you're back into this old gray. So we may fail, we may win, but the the good news is the in the in the new cities, it's easier to make this if it is connected to the global and national process. The last example during COVID era Guangzhou in China, the China's third biggest city, in one year they transformed all their buses to electric fields, uh, electric flip fleet. We're talking about 10,000 during the COVID era, and with this, they have now enabled even like a bus system on Uber so that you can run a bus system on an on-demand, and because of this electricity infrastructure in the city, electricity, electric vehicles in in Guangzhou is much easier to ride and much cheaper. But in Bonn, in in Rome, in in wherever in the US it is, we still don't see electric bus fillets like the scale that you have seen. So they are still relying on the private car, on private bus, on the electric transformation, which is wrong. So we have to if we can make the change correctly, change is doable, and we can make mistakes. I think the we should make mistakes, but we have to take lessons learned and we have to repeat the good examples as quick as possible because our race is not against each other, our race is against time. You just sir we thought about the tipping point reports are becoming. We are living already in a 1.5 degree uh warmer world. We can go back to this better climate. It is doable, it is in our hands, but we need political commitment, good governance, and commitment of all citizens, regardless of black or white, red and blue. It's because we we will strive or we will thrive or survive or fail together, except the ones who are planning to go to Mars with their own couples.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that that's totally another episode, probably like two hours, but I really want to do that episode too. And with your Korean example, Steve, I just happened to find a new series of podcasts fortune favors the bold and sustainable. Oh no, I would like to do it and sustainable. I would like to join that. Yes, that's a three person podcast. Okay, we have a lot of new projects together. But I have to have to sadly cut this one because we're out of time. So our final question: our network is ironically called do not smile because we need to make sustainability a subject that brings happiness into the world. So, what object, place, or person always makes you smile?
SPEAKER_04:When I read the script, this was the hardest question, Dhamma. I must confess. I never thought about it. So I I am a smiley person, so it's not so hard for me to make to make me smile. But I remember when I started Ikle, my daughter, elder daughter was uh was eight and a half months. So I was lucky because I had Skype and all the stuff. So whenever I was opening the Skype, she was laughing. And her name is Iklim, by the way. You know, Damla, Iklim means climate. And when we moved to Bonn, she had a sister now. Her name is Dunya, and and and Dunya means earth. So I was hesitant to have kids for the future, but with Greta and other examples, whenever I see kids around the world, I smile because I really believe in that. And the second thing that makes me smile is the dogs. And and that was I'm now sitting in in my house and again home office mode. During the COVID era, we had a fantastic dog, Ella. We lost her because of an illness. But when it is around 5 p.m., she was always coming to me and put her putties saying that uh Papa, we have to go out, we have to be leaving because it's enough that you're in the screens and then the computers. Anyway, dogs and kids, maybe because they are so pure, they're so innocent, and they're so real. That's the reason why I laugh and like to smile with them.
SPEAKER_02:Oh now, never mind. Urbanization, global politics. We just got an image of you walking down the street with your dog. Young, it's a beautiful thing. Well, it's been great talking to you. That's been an amazing discussion. Really amazing. Damla, do you want to wind us up?
SPEAKER_01:So thanks to everyone who has listened to our good guys podcast brought to you by the Do Not Smile Network of Agencies.
SPEAKER_02:And make sure you listen to future episodes where we'll be talking to more amazing people. Actually, it sounds like we're starting a whole new podcast series, actually, from this hour. Uh, how we can work together to create a more sustainable future. So you understand the season.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you. Thank you. That was a great pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Bye. Good guys. A podcast series on sustainability, hosted by Dan La Ozaire and Steve Connor. Brought to you by the DNS Network.
