Join Kritter and Jessica as they continue on their quest through The Fellowship of the Ring. This week they discuss chapters 7 through 9, where we spend some quality time with Tom and Goldberry, have a harrowing experience with Barrow-wights, and finally make it to the Prancing Pony! There they encounter many locals, Men and Hobbits alike, but none so interesting as Strider!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Join Kritter and Jessica as they continue on their quest through The Fellowship of the Ring. This week they discuss chapters 7 through 9, where we spend some quality time with Tom and Goldberry, have a harrowing experience with Barrow-wights, and finally make it to the Prancing Pony! There they encounter many locals, Men and Hobbits alike, but none so interesting as Strider!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, critter.
Speaker 2:And I'm your host, Jess.
Speaker 1:And we're continuing this adventure with the Fellowship of the Ring by JRR Tolkien, with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran.
Speaker 2:And me as a Lord of the Rings first-timer.
Speaker 1:In this our fourth episode of Season 2, we're going to discuss chapters 7 through 9 before we dive in. Jessica, how are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Excited. So Tom Bombadil is a complete unknown, so I can't wait to dive into all things. Tom Bombadil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think we talked about this a little bit last week, but was this your first introduction to Tom Bombadil?
Speaker 2:It was so Tom Bombadil is. You know this urban myth for me. You know that he's really important to the story, but I never tuned into why. Mostly because when all of that was happening, it was mostly just to poo, poo the movies, like how could you have a? Movie without Tom Bombadil on it.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I at that age could not care less. I was like even then I had no use for book clothes, it turns out. So, you know, I just was like this is not anything that matters to me. I'll be able to if anything, I'll be able to enjoy the movies without anything like that weighing me down. This is going to be awesome. But over the years, as I've gotten, you know a little bit more like hey, I'd really like to know what I'm missing out on. Part of that also is I'd really like to know what this Tom Bombadil dude is all about.
Speaker 1:Who is this character? Okay, well, I'm really excited to talk about him, but before we dive in, I also, you know, we're adding a personal touch. So how are things going with you, you know, outside of the Lord of the Rings?
Speaker 2:Things are good. I am focusing on all kinds of fun adventures that are going to come once the weather changes. To ignore, that is January. How about you?
Speaker 1:I am getting on an early morning flight tomorrow to go to New Orleans, so that is something that I am very much looking forward to. We're recording this on a Thursday, but it is my Friday because I'm not working tomorrow and I'm feeling pretty great, honestly, really good jazzed for the weekend ahead of me. So amazing, I know I love to travel, I love to travel, so I'm very much looking forward to the weekend. But that's all, yeah, so let's get into the book. We are on book one, chapter seven, in the house of Tom Bombadil. So the hobbits enter into Tom Bombadil's house and are greeted by Goldberry, daughter of the river. Any thoughts, musings or things that stood out to you about the hobbit's interactions with her?
Speaker 2:She seems pretty dreamy. It's just something that smacks of a glamour or something very fantabulous about her, without any negative. So last time we talked about a glamour was about a certain dragon named Smog, so not that kind of glamour like a nicer glamour a friendlier cozier glamour.
Speaker 1:So her nature is a matter of some speculation. So if you had to put her into a box, well, not like literally, but like what kind of a being do you think she is? Now that you've met her?
Speaker 2:I really thought she would be like a woodland sprite of some kind, like just some kind of being of the forest, obviously with the water being very important. Right up to you know, he brings her water lilies and she has them all displayed at her feet, Very much like. I'm going to go real deep. Okay, there's a movie even older. There's a movie reference I'm going to make that's even older. There's an old movie with Tom Hanks called Splash, with Darrell Hanna, who is a mermaid, and that was the vibe I got was like she's from the water and she can't be too far from the water, and so he brings her water lilies to be, around her feet to help keep her feel connected to the water somehow.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. I think the thing that I latch onto when I was kind of researching because I was like, okay, what does the world think she is? And again, it's a matter of some speculation but they said that it feels like kind of an homage to the mythos in a lot of places, including like the UK, of like a river goddess or like a river spirit. You know what I mean. And to me I was like, yeah, no, that totally tracks, that checks out. I like that, especially because it felt like she was controlling like the rain almost. You know. It's like, oh, it's her washing day and it just so happens to be raining a lot and stuff like so, yeah, it was, she's just, she's very water adjacent and calling her the daughter of the river. You put two and two together and you get water goddess, river goddess.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I could totally see that. I did not Google because I am afraid.
Speaker 1:Well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't, Google it all. I'm not.
Speaker 2:Googling.
Speaker 1:Every now and then I'm like you know, I've read this before, I want to see what other people think, and that's the one that I was like. No, yeah, that's, that checks out for me. So a couple of times, while the Hobbits are in the house, they inquire into the nature of Tom Bombadil. Goldberry calls him the master and describes him as fearless. Tom described himself as eldest, here, before the river trees, the first raindrop here before the men, the little people, the elves before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless, before the dark Lord came from outside. All very cryptic. What do you make of it?
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't right so yeah that was a lot. So both of those snippets wound up in my notes because I was just trying to highlight where we talked about it First. The first time they ask Goldberry who Tom is she just says, he is so okay, and then she goes on. I will also say that master was capitalized.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Eldest was also capitalized, but it happened to be the beginning of a sentence so it was very sus. So I found that interesting in just a very sideline. I just kind of noticed it thing. I don't know what to think, especially based on the world as I understand it so far. I mean he could very well be a creature that is that old, but I thought that the only thing that was that old currently, at least my understanding, only involves elves. He says he predates the, elves Predates the elves Right. So I don't know man.
Speaker 1:He's giving God too, especially whenever there's this interaction where Tom asks for the ring. He wants to see the ring and Frodo, first of all, was just able to give it to him, which he was not supposed to be able to do. Right, like Gandalf said, no one willingly gives up the ring. Gandalf tried, he tried to give it to Gandalf, or that was his intent, and then he just like couldn't, but you know, toss it over to Tom, no problem, which surprised him. And then Tom puts it on his finger and doesn't disappear.
Speaker 2:I was shouting at my kindle, I was just like but how?
Speaker 1:Yep, Yep. And then Frodo gets it back and he's like is this my ring? Like what's going on? Was that some kind of trick to steal it? Obviously he's like kind of paranoid because he's under the influence of the ring and he puts it on just to test it. And Tom can see him, even though everybody else can't.
Speaker 1:And I did note that nothing seemed to happen other than him turn invisible Right. And so it's like, even though Gandalf's like don't put on the ring, Like don't put on the ring, man, he does it and nothing bad happens. And so I'm like, is that because he's under Tom's little safety blanket or what's going on here? Like that man is powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like. I feel like Tom's magical, in whatever capacity he is, that he predates the elves for Pete's sake, that Goldberry is magical and therefore their home has to be like a magical Switzerland. I don't know. Like I feel as though their house is a bastion of safety, in at least some regard.
Speaker 1:That's what it feels like, and they even said that right, like no evil comes here, or something like that. I can't remember exactly how they phrased it.
Speaker 1:But, why not just stay there, like if Tom's not faced by the ring and no evil can come there, then that feels like a good spot to hold up. But I guess not. I guess it can only last for so long. Yeah, so they sleep there. They stay there for a little while. Frodo once again had some more odd dreams, including a white haired figure on a tower being born away on an eagle, with evil things below and horse hooves galloping. So before you thought that his dreams were connected to the ring somehow, do you maintain that opinion?
Speaker 2:I do so, unfortunately, my movie knowledge stepping in, like I think that this is a vision of Saruman, although the mighty eagle definitely threw me off a little bit so to me this sounded like Saruman, and then maybe the ring is showing him things that are happening with the Dark Lord, the enemy's forces, so more like a Harry Potter Voldemort thing where it's as opposed to my first take. I think what I actually said is I think the ring is telling him to go to this tower.
Speaker 2:Now I'm more like maybe the ring is just giving him glimpses of what's happening on the other side of the forces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that Sauron would be aware of. See, I thought it was Gandalf, like, even though it said white hair, but then he was born away on an eagle and I was like, well, we've seen the movies. Like that's how he gets away, it's flying on an eagle.
Speaker 2:So I still think of Gandalf as the gray.
Speaker 1:I know, I know Like. So I guess the question is now I'm trying to remember how he's been physically described Like does he have a gray hat and a gray cloak but white hair, or does he have gray everything Right?
Speaker 2:So I don't know, is it movie indoctrination, like I'm? Just picturing that because of the movies.
Speaker 1:In my head. No eagle would be like yeah, sarmon, hop on buddy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of what I thought too.
Speaker 1:But again.
Speaker 2:I'm like I got to try and keep the movie bias at bay where I can.
Speaker 1:No, that's a good call. Like that's a good call, because I wouldn't think of Gandalf as white haired either, and now I need to go back and see if that's how he was described. Yeah, all right. So Tom eventually sends them off, right? He's like OK, let's do this with a song that they knew to sing if ever they were in danger. And that ends chapter seven. Any final thoughts?
Speaker 2:I had a couple. So first off they broke into song, like it was just easier for them to talk to their hosts in song, like a musical. I found that just struck me as funny. And then, as they were resting by the fire after Goldberry, I believe, had gone up, tom is telling them a story about, basically, I believe, how he and Goldberry came to be together and that he goes and gets water lilies for her every year. And then there's a twinkle in his shiny blue eye and basically I'm paraphrasing terribly that it would be the last time they leave the house until the spring was how it read to me.
Speaker 2:So, they were extremely lucky that he was even passing through to get those lilies, because he wouldn't normally be going through there anymore to save them from Old man Willow. So that was kind of wild.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it feels very Taviren, which, if you read the Wheel of Time, it's like the pattern of reality shaping itself around you, essentially to further the plot. Basically it's what's happening and it does feel a bit like it's like Elrond looking at Bilbo's map on the exact right day to see the secret code, the moon runes or whatever. It's the same vibe. So yeah, just a really nice coincidence. Just what happened? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:And then so everybody. Even though Goldberry and Tom had both told them all that they're safe, everybody had bad dreams that was attacked by Old man Willow. So Sam is the only one who wasn't attacked by Old man Willow, and he slept like a log.
Speaker 1:Good for him.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of neat. That's still. I'm so sorry I'm going through the part where I was freaking out because Tom can touch the ring. Tom knows farmer maggot Of course, tom knows farmer maggot.
Speaker 1:I couldn't remember if that happened in this chapter or chapter eight, but yeah, like, and he respects that guy, you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I love that, because he knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 1:He knows what's up.
Speaker 2:And then Barrow Whites. So Barrow Whites. I had a moment because I was like I don't know what a Barrow is, so I looked up two words in this chapter.
Speaker 2:Barrow and Penthouse, because I was like I am pretty sure that when you say Penthouse, you don't mean the same thing that I mean Turns out, no, it's. You know, a house with a slanted roof. Oh, who knew? Yep, who knew? And then so Barrow Whites. I'm like are those zombies? Do we have zombies? It sounds like zombies, so that's all I wrote as zombies, question mark. Question mark.
Speaker 1:I guess we'll see In book one, chapter eight, Fog on the Barrow Downs.
Speaker 2:So to open the chapter we get a beautiful description.
Speaker 1:Frodo heard a sweet singing running in his mind, a song that seemed to come like a pale light behind a gray rain curtain and growing stronger to turn the veil all to glass and silver, until, at last, it was rolled back in a far green country, opened before him under a swift sunrise. So this is a perfect example of something that was included in the movies, but in a totally different context. Right, so Gandalf said this in Return of the King, when he's talking to, I believe, as Pippin yeah, it's Pippin. So we also had some lines from Tom Bombadil taken by Treebeard in the movies. Right, the dig deep, drink water, go to sleep thing.
Speaker 2:So now that there was another one from last chapter two that we can put a pin in, but I was like I think that this got said and I want to ask you because you can look it up to see if it was said in some iteration.
Speaker 1:Right. So now that you're witnessing the original right, how do you feel about things being recycled in different ways for the movies?
Speaker 2:I mean I might be a little bit of a weirdo. I am glad because I think that the power of the prose is so good that. I'm just glad that they found other ways to incorporate so directly from the source material.
Speaker 2:And I can't speak to it because I haven't noticed every single time by any means, and we're certainly not done, but I have yet to see it happen in an instance that seems to make it less or not fit. Do you know what I mean? It seems to be done respectfully, as any adaptation you hope would be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I really this one in particular. I've always loved the way that Sir Ian McKellen delivers that line. It's like this goose bump inducing, because he's talking about what it was like to die, essentially right, and it's like Pippin's like well, that's not so bad, or whatever. And so the way that they gave it to him perfect idea, because this wasn't a line of dialogue at all in the books, it just was a description, and it also made me interested in, like, I guess in the sense that what Frodo was seeing was heavenly right In this house of Tom Bob Meddl, I don't know, there's just like a lot of. I agree with you that I think recycling this language was the perfect idea, because losing any of it is a tragedy, but obviously in adaptations things have to change, and so preserving it and honoring it by, like inserting it where it fits, I love that. Peter Jackson, you nailed it. Amen, yeah, do you, do you? Yes, I love you. Thank you for your service, peter Jackson. So let's see where did I end up.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, after some traveling, the Hobbits rest next to a tall stone where they accidentally fall asleep. The plan was to get past the barrow downs before nightfall, but their little nap got in the way of that. There was a ton of fog, and, though they tried to make their way out together, they eventually got separated. Frodo was confronted by a tall figure with glowing eyes and a frozen grip, and he lost consciousness. So I feel like this particular scene inspired so many other authors Robert Jordan and she, who must not be named, to name a couple. How did you feel about it? Did you like recognize this in other works that you've read? Or the creeping factor? How did it work for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, it worked for me. Honestly, in the moment I was paying attention to what was happening, it didn't even occur to me. But no, it's a great. Excuse me, it was a great jump scare.
Speaker 1:Sorry, no take a minute.
Speaker 2:Um, I was honestly too busy being so disappointed in them Like you guys couldn't be cool for one day. Yeah, you don't think just a giant rock standing alone by itself is sus in any way you have one job to stay on the grass kind of like stay on the path and you just you couldn't be cool for one day, no, but it really was very impressive, and I guess I really should be thinking about things like that as I'm reading, but turns out no.
Speaker 1:So, guys, you know, sometimes they just I just get pinged by certain things and I'm like, okay, a bunch of fog rolling out and then separating the party, that sounds like something that happens in the eye of the world.
Speaker 1:And then it's like these figures that have like they like chill you to your bone and like whatever you know. There's just multiple. I feel like people took and maybe Tolkien took that from other people that came before him, but there's just enough of it in this one scene that I was like man. Other people really liked this scene or at least remembered it. Somehow it got buried in their conscious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I have a hard time. I don't know. Obviously I don't know because I'm not a scholar, I'm not a literary historian or anything. I can't imagine anybody else in storytelling using this particular convention, because it's so, it's so specific. You know to to like that fantasy genre and I know that it is because of you know, foundational works like this, but still, still, still.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good scene. And again, there's another thing to be said about how Tolkien is so good at changing tone. Right, we're like we're in this brightly colored, beautiful happy place where we're singing songs and telling old stories with Tom Bombadil, and then, like, just like that, we are in a terrifying place where you can't find your friends and you can hear them in the distance and then, and then, all of a sudden, you're all trapped and probably going to die. Yeah, just like that. So were you scared, like do you think? Well, obviously you knew that that wasn't going to be it for them, but how were like just trying to suspend what you knew outside of the books. Like, how are you feeling for the hobbits at this moment?
Speaker 2:I mean, it was good. I feel as though the suspense was there. You know the Barrow Whites. This is not material that I've ever heard of you know, so it was all fresh for me. In that perspective, I thought the suspense was real and very good and how really just a few elements can completely disorient you and it doesn't take much to make you feel separated and alone. And I think that that amps up the suspense and is just really well done in this particular interaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, agreed. So the hobbits were taken by the Barrow Whites. Frodo was the only one conscious and, like Bilbo in Merckwood, briefly considered abandoning his friends and escaping on his own First of all, though, in this instance, like who could blame him? Obviously, but he rejected the thought. Ultimately, he called for Tom with Tom's special song, and Tom came to rescue them. Any standout moments or thoughts about this encounter?
Speaker 2:That you know. Finally, frodo remembers the rescue song that it was really kind of fast that Tom came along Almost instantaneous, magical, even.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very magical and then. So I can't of course my notes, why do I even bother? One of them, upon waking, says the men of Karn Doom came on us at night. I can't remember if it was Mary or Pippin and so those are the kinds of things that I've kind of been highlighting, maybe not necessarily commenting on, but highlighting because it's clearly setting up kind of there's lots of nuggets over the next few chapters that talk about the roots of the places that they're traveling through and how they seem to align with how the enemy has traversed this land before.
Speaker 2:So when I see things like that, I kind of highlight them, almost like pieces of a puzzle right that I might be able to hopefully push all the edges together and make it make sense later on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's this art that I found about this. I talk about like I have a TikTok where I explained Tom Bombadil that I posted a long, long time ago, but when I was looking for art to use, there's this one that's got this like giant hand, like the skeletal looking hand creeping up on these, like dead looking hobbit bodies. Right, it's like so creepy, so the zombie arm or whatever. Imagery was strong, I think, in that in the particular scene it was pretty terrifying. And then also I thought it was interesting and I had forgotten this that the hobbits are like decked out in like jewels and crowns. Yeah, it's like this ritualistic sacrifice kind of thing. And I was just so intrigued by, like what are these whites doing?
Speaker 2:Like, what's the plan here? Well, it felt very sacrificial.
Speaker 1:It did, yeah, it felt very.
Speaker 2:Not that I know a lot about traditions from other cultures, but, like I thought of, you know Egyptians. You know that they deck them out a certain way and leave them with offerings. That was the kind of thing that that made me think of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So the imagery was just funny, like weird, scary, creepy and funny. Where it's this skeletal hand and these hobbits all been jeweled and Frodo trying to reach for a sword. Like I got to get out of here.
Speaker 2:So I have a question that I'm not asking for a spoiler, I swear.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But to your knowledge, do we ever find out who Tom Bombadil is?
Speaker 1:No, it's a matter of much speculation.
Speaker 2:Dang it. Okay To this day people wonder. Okay, really that's enough.
Speaker 1:No, both many, many speculated. At least we get some of their like backstory, I think, in like other places, maybe a little. I think there's like a poem or something in the book of Lost Tales or something like that, but it doesn't explain their nature more than what we've already had. So we're almost done with this chapter. The last thing I had for this chapter was well, first of all, I love that the hobbits each got ordnate daggers long enough to count as swords for them, because they deserved something. But then also Tom led them out of the barredowns and directed them to the prancing pony in Bree. Frodo reminded them all that they would need to call him Mr Underhill once they got there and they headed that way. Any thoughts for the end of the chapter?
Speaker 2:I had a couple notes. So in addition to where I said the men of Carn Doom came on us at night, I had a couple also. Sorry, wind it up, wind it back. Tom breaks the spell of the mound apparently by like leaving out the stuff which is wild, and then gives them each a long leaf shaped dagger.
Speaker 1:Found that relevant.
Speaker 2:Seems like hobbits get armaments when they leave town.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as they should.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I took note of it saying the men of westernness were foes of the Dark Lord, but they were overcome by the evil King of Carn Doom, which also kind of tied into that earlier throwaway comment. So again just more kind of lore about the area. But I took note of it. And then my last thing is that Tom is very Gandalf like in the having of secrets and the knowing of things.
Speaker 1:And being so cryptic, just wildly cryptic, come on, tom. Okay, well, moving on to the final chapter of this episode, chapter nine of book one, at the sign of the prancing pony. So Bree is a rare place where hobbits and men coexist. As they approach the gate, the hobbits were confronted by a watchman, but they were eventually let in. Behind them, though, a dark figure crawled over the gate and melted into the shadows. At this moment, did you have a guess as to who or what that was?
Speaker 2:No, no, I was just like who this, who this, what's happening? And then, of course, I was like, is the gatekeeper sketchy, or am I just paranoid now?
Speaker 1:Both. No, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Am I paranoid? Is the narrator paranoid? Is somebody paranoid? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, I think Frodo was definitely paranoid because he's like you know, our business is our own. It's actually like if I hear that, I'm like okay, now I have to know your business like spill the tea, yeah, also.
Speaker 2:So there's a little bit of contrast there, you know, between how kind of it feels like Frodo is less naive than Bilbo was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, he definitely, he's more cautious.
Speaker 2:He's definitely more cautious, he's definitely more suspicious and I you know again, that added context of the rings had 17 more years to have effect on him, to whatever extent it does. You know, I'm not saying he's being cool about it by any means, yeah, but he's not just out there blabbing his details either, which shows a little bit more worldliness than one might expect from somebody who, had you know, has never left the shower shire until now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do think that the movies have kind of clouded my knowledge of Frodo, because so many times in these books, or in this book in particular, frodo will be, you know, getting the attention and respect of the people that the whole party is addressing, right, and they'll single him out in certain ways and he says some things that seem very like wise and, you know, like gentlemanly, right? And I'm not saying that like Elijah Woods, Frodo wasn't the gentleman, but he was much more innocent and like young.
Speaker 2:So young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's just. I think book Frodo is a different Frodo, like so far, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, no, I thought that that was interesting. I also thought that there was a throw a comment about there was Brie blood and the brandy bucks, so again sort of like the hobbit lore and how those lines are a little blurry, and I think that that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even at the end of last chapter Mary made a comment about sometimes his people ride out to Brie now and again. So you know there's there's some town lines being crossed For sure.
Speaker 1:For sure. And I also think it's funny because I think somewhere it said that it's like a day's ride from the ferry like a Buckleberry ferry, I think to Brie, like the amount of stuff that the hobbits went through between Buckland and Brie's extent. I mean they had to go through the forest, right, and it was like miserable. So I actually opened the book up to consult the map just to be like so why did they do what they did? Obviously it was to stay off the road, but the road, just it does like skirt right over the forest basically, and so they took the hard way. Poor guys.
Speaker 2:It definitely did not work out for them.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean it did, but it didn't. It was really. It was pretty rough. So they met the innkeeper, butter Burr, and had a nice supper. Afterwards, sam Frodo and Pippin decided to head to the common room and Mary decided to do his own thing. So in horror movies I always lament when protagonists decide to split up. Did this make you nervous?
Speaker 2:Well, I just wrote you know, but Mary doesn't want to go down. Isn't that interesting that. Mary doesn't want to be social. So I don't know that I'd be moaned at or anything, but I definitely took note of it and I was like why? Why are you not being?
Speaker 1:paranoid is over here like Mary Mary, what are you up?
Speaker 2:to. I am. I am super paranoid. These, these books have already. We're only on the second one and I'm already paranoid, but I do think it's interesting and again, it's Much like you just said, that book photo and movie photo are totally different. This is another moment where book Mary and movie Mary feel very different, because movie Mary and Pippin to me wouldn't be separated and would never miss a chance to go to the common room.
Speaker 1:A thousand percent. Yeah, they are proving. The more we get to know them, the more different they are, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:And that's okay, and I know that none of us are dealing in absolutes and that doesn't mean that there aren't seeds of the truth in that. Just it just was really noticeable for me when I read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah same. So I would have gone the common room route. Like sounded like a really good time. Pippin's name and Frodo are just having an amazing little jaunt down there. But then they notice or at least Frodo notices a mysterious stranger in the corner, known in those parts as Strider, one of the Rangers out of the East in long supple boots, smoking an odd pipe, with a glint in his eyes and shaggy dark hair flecked with gray. So how do you feel about Strider's introduction other than understandably aroused? Probably, at least me.
Speaker 2:I can neither confirm nor deny. However, it did get hot in here. So, I thought that it was great. I thought it was an incredible introduction. I think that, honestly, there was a lot of the imagery that the movie evoked for me.
Speaker 1:So yeah, they nailed it, as I mentioned in other episodes.
Speaker 2:the movies really helped me with visualizing the action as it's happening, and so I felt like this was really well represented on the screen. I was able to kind of take that as a one to one, which was all the more surprising when Frodo went right over to him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not like who's this stranger? And then he looks at him suspiciously. He's like who's this stranger? I'm going to go talk to him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, took me off guard just a little bit, but I got over it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it was pretty weird. So Frodo's over with Strider just kind of introducing himself or whatever. Meanwhile Pippin is killing it with the locals, but as he moves to the tale of Bilbo's party, strider encourages Frodo to do something to stop Pippin from giving away the whole disappearing act thing, which might evoke the Baggins name, which might start getting people wondering who these hobbits really are. So Frodo stands on a table, gives a little speech about you know, the camaraderie between the Shire and the Brelanders and, at the request of the crowd, sings a very long and absurd song. So he gets a little cocky, does a little dance at some point and then he falls off the table and vanishes. Right Pandemonium chaos. Thoughts or standout moments from the sequence.
Speaker 2:Um, I they. You know it's kind of like a reverse gotcha, because the first time he wanted to go for the ring he resisted. And I was like ooh, maybe this is going to be, maybe this is going to be different, maybe he's not going to wear it. And then he does the hey diddle diddle song that goes on forever.
Speaker 1:Ages and like he's like when he jumps, it's like the cow jumped over the moon or something which becomes relevant later, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so you know, and then the ring slips on, and so it was kind of like I said, just a little bit of a reverse gotcha. I was like, oh, maybe that's not what's going to happen, because you know, doesn't have to be the same. And then it. Then it does happen. And the other part is the internal monologue for him, where he feels like the ring tricked him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a little bit of that which obviously we don't. We don't get that in a movie form, that's simply in the written form. So I thought that that was interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, in the movie we get the him holding his hand up and the ring like weirdly, kind of like magnetically landing on his finger right, but Frodo never questions that after the fact that we can see at least as to like, was that, was that an accident?
Speaker 1:I also noted, before this even happened, that Frodo somebody asked why he was in Brewer or whatever, and Frodo gave an excuse that he was thinking of writing a book and he had interest in history and geography. So that's another little tidbit that reminded me of a certain character in the eye of the world who gives a very similar excuse for being somewhere that they otherwise wouldn't be. So anyways, yeah, obviously it doesn't have. It's not like a direct connection necessarily, but I keep reading these things and I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is this tiny little piece is so much like this other thing. And then, after Frodo falls and disappears or whatever, there was a swarthy, mocking Brelander and a shifty Southerner, both leaving right away. And this got me, this got me tense. Did you notice that? Did you think these?
Speaker 2:were that close. Oh, absolutely, I was like these people are clearly up to no good. And then my last note was just that now Frodo even begins to suspect Butterburr, you know. And then next to what I wrote is the ring in fact making him more suspicious.
Speaker 1:I was thinking the same thing, like whenever he was talking to the gate guard, and he's like you know, obviously he's being cautious, but he was almost being defensive, rather than cautious and I did wonder if that was the ring affecting him.
Speaker 2:Basically, I'm just going to be questioning Frodo's motives for everything that's what I figured out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, basically, I don't know that I'm going to believe that we really, truly know the real Frodo, because I feel like everything he does is like oh, definitely the ring. So both Strider and Butterburr solicit Frodo for a private chat before the night was up, and so we go into the end of the chapter and episode not knowing exactly what those chats are to be about.
Speaker 2:Any final thoughts before we pick an MVP Final thoughts excited like I was at the beginning, and a little wary. You know there is enough different here. The tension is building, the danger is definitely building and I'm cautious, you know, because I feel like the potential to have to flee the francing pony is very high right now. And you know Butterburr I don't know anything about him, so I really don't know what to expect. I obviously have some preconceived notions about what to expect from Strider.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, um, what was I? I was just thinking something and it literally just vanished. Oh no, I get it. Okay. So like, from so far in their flight from the Shire they've been very much kind of alone, right, they've met gate guards and they've met up with fatty and stuff like that, but like they've never been in a very populated scenario and this was the first one and they totally botched it, which I thought was so funny, especially because Frodo is the one that's trying to like prevent people from messing it up, and he's the one that messes it up or the ring. So, yeah, I got, I was nervous immediately, like, why, like, if you're being chased, why are you? Why are you in a populated? Like I would avoid attention, which honestly was Sam's instinct, because he was like why don't we just go see a Hobbit, like see if they'll put us up for the night or whatever, and they're like well, let's go to the end Does matter. So that was an interesting that was our first heavily populated scene, basically and it did not work out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they did not nail it.
Speaker 1:They did not nail, they botched it. So we've got a new tradition where we pick an MVP from the chapters that we've read for each episode. Cue the music, jessica. Who would you name as your MVP this episode?
Speaker 2:Okay, so for episode four, based on completely arbitrary criteria that I make up on the fly every time, yeah, yeah, yeah. I vote Goldberry. Oh okay, I know that it's real easy to pick Tom.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You know, because he's flashy, you know, seems to be coming in and saving stuff. But I feel like I feel like Goldberry is his peer and that that you touched on something earlier about her potentially controlling the rain and stuff, and that's definitely a bye-bye God. So I don't think Tom is the only one that was doing things on their behalf.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So that just lets me rationalize that I loved Goldberry and she was magnificent and so I want to pick her.
Speaker 1:This is. This is your choice. You get to pick whoever you want. So, even though this is apparently the basic B answer, I'm going to pick Tom, because Tom Bombadil did save their lives. Again. He is all again and I didn't pick him last episode, and I'm not going to say it's because I knew I would pick him this episode, because that would be cheating.
Speaker 2:But you're not saying that.
Speaker 1:I'm not not saying that, but yeah, I think he he is. I remember being so annoyed by him as a kid because he was very lyrical.
Speaker 1:He was cryptic. I didn't fully understand what his thing, his deal was and honestly I still don't. But I found it to. I found it to be much more interesting and intriguing this time rather than annoying. And also I every every single episode. I have to mention Andy Serkis. But Andy Serkis doing his dialogue made him so much more bearable, instead of trying to just read it and like attribute whatever kind of Tom Bombadil vibe he was doing.
Speaker 2:He can be whatever, tom he wants. Yeah, because he's not trying to be true to somebody else's performance.
Speaker 1:No, and the and I don't know if he like consulted with the musician or what, but the way that he did the sing songy voice is so fun and goofy that I didn't mind it as much. And then I did, when I was like literally just trying to read it on the page. So big fan of Tom Bombadil in now in this adult read and and also I just love the visual of him like opening a portal or like, or like you know, skipping across the land, but instead of doing a normal skip he's taking like miles at a time. You know what I mean Because, like, how did he get there so fast? I just love how magical he is and and yeah, and and just goofy and like you know, he comes in and he just shoes the Barrow whites away like they're no big deal. I don't know, like I aspire to be Tom Bombadil and so, yeah, I love that goldberry and Tom both got shout outs in the MVP section.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm good with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so with that, that's it for our episode this week, and so we would ask you, guys and gals, and everybody else, to read, for next week, chapters 10 through 12, which will take us through the end of book one, if that is how your book is broken up, and so that's it. Thank you so much for tuning in to episode four of season two of but Are there Dragons, brought to you by your hosts, me, jessica Sadi and Critter XD. Please don't forget to follow us at but Are there Dragons on YouTube, instagram and TikTok, or at but Dragons just one. T on X.
Speaker 1:But Dragons pod Just one T, but Dragons pod.
Speaker 2:just one T Good catch. You can also find us on social media as Critter XD and Shelf Indulgence. That's it for today. We are still workshopping new catchphrases for season two, so let us know on social media how you feel about this one. As Tom says, keep to the green grass. Don't you go and meddle in with old stone or cold whites or prying in their houses, unless you be strong folk with hearts that never falter. Bye.