But Are There Dragons Podcast
Two fantasy lovers quite ready for another adventure…and by adventure, we mean podcast! Join us as we–a LOTR vet and LOTR first-timer–take on the works of Tolkien! Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time.
But Are There Dragons Podcast
Episode 7: The One with Arwen's Gifts, Many Farewells, & Bill the Pony!
In this penultimate episode, Jessica and Kritter discuss book 6 chapters 6 & 7. Follow along as we (finally!) hear from Arwen, start the Goodbye Tour in earnest, and tagalong with the four hobbits as they make their way home.
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons? A podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, critter.
Kritter:And.
Jessica:I'm your host, jess.
Kritter:And we're continuing this adventure with the Return of the King by JRR Tolkien, with me as the resident Lord of the Rings veteran.
Jessica:And me as a Lord of the Rings first timer.
Kritter:In this, our seventh episode of season four, we're going to discuss book six, chapters six and seven Before we dive in. Jessica, what's new with you? How's the grass?
Jessica:The grass is doing overall very well. It's almost mowable. Which again grass. The grass is doing overall very well, it's almost mowable, which again sounds like I hear how silly it sounds, but it's exciting.
Kritter:It is exciting.
Jessica:We could see it actually waving in the breeze which, if you knew how a raucous like it was, very dune like back there nine weeks ago.
Kritter:So this is a major victory. It feels like it about you. Congratulations, oh uh, to this one. I'm okay. Today was like one day in the office. I I go into the office one day a week and, uh, by the end of that day I'm always, like you know, kind of just in a daze, so I'm a little tired, but now that it's time to talk about Lord of the Rings, I think I'm getting my second wind. So that's where we're at. Yeah, right on. So, speaking of, are you ready?
Jessica:I'm ready, let's do this.
Kritter:Okay, it is Book 6, chapter 6. Many Partings. So Frodo approaches Aragorn and Arwen ready to head back home. Aragorn agrees to accompany him for part of the journey and Arwen actually speaks to take her place, to pass into the West if he so chooses. And she also gives him a necklace with a white gem, like a star, to bring him aid when the memory of the darkness and fear troubles him. So how are you feeling about Arwen's brief but arguably impactful speaking part?
Jessica:Very excited, very excited to know that she has a brain and that she can talk and that, you know, she seems, by all accounts, to be a very willing participant in this is choosing. Aragorn is making the choice based out of love. Yeah, all of that in really a relatively small interaction, right, but you can imply all of that. You can connect all of those dots with this small exchange. I will say that the gift she gives Frodo, the white gem, made me think of the pendant that you wear, that flower, or that brooch that she gave Aragorn in the movie the like, even star necklace, yes, even star, yes, yeah.
Jessica:And so I was like I understand that it's not that and I also understand that you know, book versus movie, it doesn't matter. But I was like, oh interesting, okay, so she's giving it to Frodo, not Aragorn, and I guess I had just gone off of. I had made the assumption as a movie watcher that Frodo's place on the boats was guaranteed because of his status as a ring bearer regardless.
Kritter:And maybe it would have been, like you know, but I do feel like the sentiment was really nice, that, like you, can have my place, because I'm not taking it chosen the way of luthien. You know, presumably in giving context clues, even if you haven't read the silmarillion although they did they did, they have talked about it in the context of the trilogy too, but you know, an elf who chose to be with a man, like whatever, chose a mortal life. So yeah, whether whether there was one final spot and they're they're swapping out, or if it was just kind of the the sentiment behind it, you know, like I would like to give you something, so I'm gonna give you this thing. That may or may not, you may or may not need uh. Either way, it was nice to hear her speak.
Kritter:In my opinion, yes and uh, and it was like it was get. You know, it's funny how the elves are. Well, at least galadriel, the elves are such generous people, right, they're very like they're gift givers, they it's and I guess it's not just the elves, but like lots of people in the books or they give tokens and stuff, which is kind of a fun thing after random interactions. It's like here I give you this thing and you can find out what it is.
Jessica:Cheap swag, right?
Kritter:no, the stuff they have been gifted, it's pretty solid I guess it's kind of giving like you know, rpg video game like you're like you're leveling up, you're putting your stuff in your pouch or whatever, and getting better and better gear as time goes by. So thanks, arwen, for the super cool necklace that may or may not be magical in some way. So Eomer and Gimli reconcile their differences. When Eomer shows up to bear Theoden back home, aragorn grants the people of Gon-Bri-Gon the forest of Druidon to have for their own. Theoden is buried amongst his forebears. When Faramir and Eowyn's betrothal is announced, aragorn and Eowyn share joyful words and we find out that later Legolas and Gimli went to check out the glittering caves of helm's deep, as legolas promised, and gimli and legolas also go to fangorn when they ultimately depart from the company. So tell me, is tolkien the actual master of tying up loose ends? And do you have a favorite moment of all of these?
Jessica:I feel like, yes, I definitely feel as though, and I do have recency bias, mostly because by the by the end of a read, I only remember the vibe.
Jessica:I don't necessarily remember the whole thing but, I do feel like in my recent memory, tolkien is the one who stitches it at all, stitches it all up nice and neat and closes down every storyline, and I love that. I don't know. So there were a couple of, really. And also, frodo wants to go back to Rivendell to see Bilbo first before he goes. Gimli and Eomer you know who's coolest? Galadriel Arwen why not both? You know like that was super adorable.
Kritter:That was cute yeah.
Jessica:I was stoked that Aragorn delivered on the promise to the wood people and gifted them the Like I was so proud. Proud of him for following through on that and Merry weeping at Théoden's funeral that was really touching. I think probably my favorite has to be the Legolas and Gimli bro tour, just because I wanted it so bad, so I think that probably has to win.
Kritter:Okay, that's fair. I liked, I really enjoyed all of it. I think one of the most relieving things for me was the exchange between Aragorn and Eowyn, because it's like they had this love triangle that wasn't really a love triangle because, like he was never into her, you know. And then the fact that she's like you know, be happy for me, or whatever, whatever, and he's like I've been wishing for your happiness ever since the day I met you. It's like that's so sweet and nice. And the fact that they're like both in their own relationships, super happy like nothing. It was like nothing ever happened. Um, and yeah, because, uh, while love triangles can be fun while you're reading them, depending on the book, this one in particular, because I want to stan eowyn, right, I want her to be this powerful shield maiden. The fact that she was pining after him diminished her just slightly in my eyes, and so now that she's like over him, I'm like I love that for you. Girlfriend, marrying the prince of I already forgot the name, the place so good for her, she's awesome.
Jessica:I also think Sorry. In there, narrator also tells us that no one sees the last exchange between Elrond and Arwen, but that it's no good Right. So until we just talked about it, I didn't realize that Frodo knew Arwen wasn't going to go before Elrond knew that Arwen wasn't going to go. So yeah, good times.
Kritter:So I think the movie did a pretty good job of like giving us more of that particular. You know, like throughout the movie Elrond was angsty about arwen's choices and she was insisting and eventually relented and then changed her mind, like there was a lot of are you going to give up your immortal life for a man? Throughout the movie, which I think increased arwen's like intrigue. I guess it made her more interesting, obviously because she had dialogue, but um, but also it made the romance interesting, obviously because she had dialogue, but um, but also it made the romance between aragorn and arwen more special than it was in the books to me, because in the books it was very remote, um, so yeah, yeah, while I think faramir and eowyn's romance in the books is better, I think aragorn and arwen's books romance in the movies is better.
Jessica:I'm just gonna call that yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that at all. I don't feel like I knew until the last 10 minutes, not the last 10 minutes, but you know a very, very far into the story, even right up till their nuptials, them getting married. I'm still unclear as to how arwen feels about this whole situation, right, right. So I just I know that I don't look to look, I don't look to tolkien for romance, and that's okay perfectly fine, um, okay, so the hobbits move to depart.
Kritter:Rohan and eowyn grants Merry a gift An heirloom horn from the horde of Skatha the Worm, a dragon meant to strike fear in the hearts of enemies and joy in the hearts of friends, and to friends sorry, and to friends gather sorry, and friends gather to him whenever he blows it. That's basically its powers, I guess, or the lore. I feel like that's a pretty solid gift. As far as gifts go, would you rather the horn that gathers gifts and invigorates friends and scares enemies, or the necklace that arwen gave frodo that, like essentially to me, feels like a mood stabilizer based on its description, which one would you prefer?
Jessica:um, I think I'd probably go with a horn, just because I I don't need a a magical bus pass necklace. I I don't. I mean frodo definitely does that that boy's got some trauma he needs to work through, so I'd probably pick the horn honestly.
Kritter:Yeah, I mean, if you wanted to have any super sick adventures, definitely the horn, because you know who doesn't love scaring enemies and calling allies, yeah. But there's something to be said. I about like uh, I don't know, I don't know what I would pick. A part of me is like the necklace would be really nice to just if you're ever like really stressed out, just gotta hold it, you know, and it'll make you feel a little better yeah so I could go either way.
Kritter:I think All right. So the travelers? They make it to Orthanc, back to Isengard, and we find out that Treebeard ultimately let Saruman go Seven days earlier, when he deemed him no longer a threat as he disdains the caging of living things. Good choice, bad choice. Are you worried?
Jessica:I felt very split on this because I was very excited for us to come back to Treebeard, but anything about Saruman, this is unknown territory for me. So, I'm like oh yeah, that guy, he's still alive. And also so you, just, you, just, you just let him go. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I'm not usually one who endorses the, the caging or restraining of anybody, but you know, he's, he's kind of earned his mantle as a pretty bad dude.
Kritter:Yeah, he was like maybe the second, he was in the top five biggest bads of the whole series, agreed. So I don't know, like I understand, not avoiding, you know, the death penalty, like they did for gollum or what. Like you know, we're not, who am I to decide who gets to live or die? But the caging, it kind of made sense to me. I don't know. Yeah, so he's wondering, wondering about now we'll see what happens um at.
Kritter:When you found out that he was gone, were you like okay, we're not gonna hear from him again, or did you expect something more from him?
Jessica:I didn't know what to expect. I. I was like uh feels weird to just have him floating around loose and not tied up. So I guess that was probably my clue, right, like that's an end, that's not tied up.
Kritter:If you know Tolkien, hmm, yeah, okay, so we've got a little literary umami. It came from a line that made its way into the movies, but in a different context. So Treebeard says to Galadriel it is sad that we shall meet only thus into the movies, but in a different context. So Treebeard says to Galadriel it is sad that we shall meet only thus at the ending, for the world is changing. Hold on, and I'm going to do it how it was in the movies. I'm going to try. I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth and I smell it in the air. That was Galadriel in the movie. I do not think we shall meet again. So in the movies, Galadriel says some of these lines, the ones that I impersonated, rather as a beginning to the story as opposed to an end. We talked about how sometimes these things get repurposed and put in the movies. Do you like this particular adaptation? If you remember the line?
Jessica:I do so. First off, thank you, because I I was like this seems really familiar, I think I think it was in there and maybe just, uh, swapped around. So thank you for that confirmation. Yep, um, and I think that it is. I'm glad that it's in there, no different than the other little nuggets we found along the way. I think that it's almost a little bit more ominous or sad now versus how they did it. No, it was kind of ominous, only it was like foreshadowing in there. I don't know it just was. It just hit me as a little bit more sad, coming from tree beard in this moment.
Kritter:Yeah, I would say in the movie it was more ominous in the books it was more ominous in the books. It was more sad right, because it was like it's it's kind of symbolizing the end of the age right. Where people are moving on, magic is dwindling, stuff like that we're just casually talking about, like that.
Jessica:It's the end of an age. You know, the third age is ending and the fourth age is about to begin and I'm just like, oh, oh, okay, I don't really have any frame of reference for that, but you know, big doings and shifts in the entire world.
Kritter:I'm just like okay turn in the page. I mean people talking about departing forever. I no longer have a place here. I mean it's all very much like the age of men is beginning. There's just so much like you know, if I could live in Middle Earth with all the magical elves and hobbits and dwarves and everything, hell yeah, that's what I would do. But they're kind of making it sound like that's not what's going to be, that's not how it's going to be anymore. Right?
Jessica:So it's definitely more sad.
Kritter:The dominion of men, mm, hmm, it's definitely more sad doesn't sound very magical at all I know, like that's what I'm living in right now. It's it could be. It could be way cooler if there were elves, dragon maybe not dragons. I mean it would be cooler if there were dragons, a little more dangerous, but if I had a super cool horn then who knows?
Kritter:right um but yeah, I, I liked the repurposing of it. When I saw it I was like, oh, Treebeard said this Interesting. I always thought it was Galadriel, but these things I've forgotten, I guess. So Aragorn then departs from the company and they actually run into Saruman and Wormtongue of all people. Any standout moments from this interaction?
Jessica:So when they said that they saw you know, I don't have it open they said like they saw a beggar in gray and white. It did immediately make my ears perk up, as it were, thinking about how we had that moment earlier in the story where they see somebody wandering around Treebeard talks about about you know, sightings of a figure in gray and and we didn't know if it was gandalf and turns out it was saruman. So I did kind of catch that in the moment and I was like, oh okay, so he didn't make it far, we found him yeah, we did find him, and then he stole mary's tobacco pouch, right oh just just just a no, no good dirty dog yeah, yeah, what's.
Kritter:What's that about?
Jessica:my favorite part of this, though. There were two lines in in our Mon exchange that I loved. First is Galadriel. Galadriel's Royal burn yes, sarah Mon is whining that they won't just leave him be. And Galadriel's response is basically we have far better things to do than concern ourselves with you. And I just was like yes, girl, yeah Him, um. And then the other one was uh, was like yes, girl, yeah. And then the other one was was a negative back. It said long may your land be short of leaf. And I just wrote what a terrible thing to say to a hobbit.
Kritter:I know he knows really mean. He knows how to poke him, that's for sure. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. The Galadriel line reminded me so much of a line in mad men, and this isn't. I'm not gonna spoil anything, but like I think it's uh, don draper, the main character, gets um into an elevator and somebody who's kind of like a social climber gets into the elevator with him and they're like ad executives, they're in suits, whatever, and the social climber's talking to him about something. He's like you know, I was thinking about you the other day, and then he gives him this anecdote and don is just like I don't think about you at all.
Kritter:It was the sickest bird like literally, like I don't think about you at all and there's a, you know, there's like a gift that's been made out of it. Whatever iconic you could make that, you can make a galadriel don draper gif and it would be perfect.
Jessica:It was amazing.
Kritter:It was sick. Okay, so, speaking of Galadriel, before Celeborn and Galadriel depart from the company, we get this visual of them, gandalf and Elrond, sitting together into the wee hours of the night conversing about all things past and present. Except it wasn't like normal, so to passers-by they would have appeared gray figures carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things, now lost in unpeopled lands, not moving, rather speaking mind to mind. So this felt very otherworldly to me. How did it strike you?
Jessica:Exactly that. So the idea I don't think we've seen an interaction where the whole interaction is a mental connection, right Like there's been some of that happening kind of as subtext almost in parts of interactions, but the idea of them sitting like monoliths, you know, gray-scaled monoliths, hanging out and um, the only thing that's moving, I think it said, was you know their eyes, their, eyes, their eyes, um no, it absolutely smacks of an ethereal realm and them being otherworldly indifferent.
Kritter:Yeah, it reminded me of, I believe it's whenever they're in Lothlorien in the first movie, galadriel, kind of like mind melds with them, you know, and like talks to them each, sometimes all together, sometimes in turn, and to keep like zooming in on her face and kate blanchett's, just like moving her eyes back and forth and granted, it's not the same, because like she still was animated in that way. She just wasn't talking out loud, which is kind of how this was, but this was just a whole different level. You know, like I wish somewhere in the world there was like a courtyard that had like stone statues of them. Like how sick would that be? I would totally visit. That would be so awesome. I would just like go hang out in the courtyard, like next to stone gandalf. You know, I don't know, oh my god.
Jessica:Yes, I would definitely take pictures with all of them all of them, and I'm not like a.
Kritter:You know what I was gonna say. I'm not a pipe smoker, but maybe I would like do it just there, but instead, no, I wouldn't, I would just take a picture with the pipe as if I was smoking a pipe, because isn't that just? It's? I don't know, it's a cool visual. Let's just put it that way. It's a really cool visual. Um, okay, so the remaining members of the party make their way to rivendell, because frodo wanted to go see Bilbo and Bilbo was celebrating his 129th birthday. Just shy of, I'm trying to remember the name of him, like the old hobbit, the oh.
Jessica:God, anyway, not Bull Roar. The other one, the other one, the old Took.
Kritter:Yes, yeah, okay, just shy of the old Took's record, right? So he was just very old, sweet and sleepy and it just kind of reminded me of my grandpa. Do you have any thoughts about their time in Rivendell?
Jessica:Again, idyllic, beautiful and very much giving the sense that it's winding to a close. Yeah, I love the fact that it was a priority of Frodo to make it back to see Bilbo. Goodbye gifts from Bilbo. The fact that he re-gifts the mithril coat and sing, you know, because he's getting up there in years and he accidentally forgot giving them free advice very grandfatherly, very, very grandfatherly, and just how nurturing they all are of Bilbo. Right, like I don't have, you know, he's dozing in the corner. He's like I don't have time to arrange the poetry and why don't you come back and help me sort it out? And all this and that, and it was just precious.
Kritter:Yeah, it really reminded me of my grandpa when he was really He'd live to be like 94 or something in his last year or two. That was kind of the vibe where we would just go and I would just sit there with him and we'd like watch cardinals games and he might fall asleep and then wake back up and it was just like this, I don't know, just like being together, and that's kind of how it felt. They were just there with him and it didn't really matter what they were doing, what they were talking about, they were just spending time and it was at that point.
Jessica:The commodity is time.
Kritter:Yeah, it was just really precious to me. It was a good little scene there. Okay, so in Rivendell Elrond let Frodo know that he would be with Bilbo in the Shire about that time next year in the fall, and for the end of the chapter Frodo keeps this information to himself. Any thoughts before we move on?
Jessica:Just that you know, frodo's come a long way and he's gonna just keep that little nugget to himself. I think that that's incredibly interesting. I did have one little piece of literary umami right at the beginning of them getting to Rivendell, I think yeah, part of a, as they were going through Northern Dunland. September came in with golden days and silver nights and I just that's not even the whole sentence, like that's just part of the sentence, but it's just so pretty and very uh, like it resonates with me about how september is. You know, still have like a golden, warm day, but it's a little cooler at night a lot of times, and just perfect, perfect umami makes me want fall.
Kritter:I love fall so much. Okay, ready to move on to the next chapter. Yep, all righty book six, chapter sorry no, so sorry.
Jessica:There was one thing that happened in chapter six. You don't have to tell me what it is, but just tell me if it means anything to you. As they were wrapping up, kelleborn says to araginsman farewell. May your doom be other than mine and your treasure remain with you to the end. So I don't know if that's like a Silmarillion spoiler or whatever, but why is Celeborn talking about a doom D-O-O-M?
Kritter:doom d-o-o-m. I believe that's a silmarillion spoiler. Okay, I have an idea what I think it is, but I don't want to say okay, I don't want to spoil anything that's fine.
Jessica:If it's a silmarillion spoiler, then I'm happy to let it go. But it kind of jumped out at me. I was like hello boy, you seem like you have a pretty good deal.
Kritter:Like what kind of doom, what kind of doom you got yeah, no, that's fair, that's totally fair that's it.
Jessica:That's all I had for chapter six.
Kritter:Sorry okay, okay, book six, chapter seven, homeward bound, which is an excellent movie if you're a child, albeit sad. Um, okay. So frodo is hurting a year from the day he was stabbed on weathertop. He wonders how he might find rest, having been fundamentally changed as he had, and gandalf doesn't answer, even though things are better generally. I think tolkien is doing a good job, making me still feel sorry for Frodo. How's this hitting for you?
Jessica:So I'm not sure why, but this part specifically really resonated with me. So I am someone that and I consider myself a pretty positive person, but I am very likely to say you can never go home again. I'm very likely to say you can never go home again because whatever your, whatever your travels have been, either home's not the same or you're not the same. You know what I mean? That's, that was a moment in time and it will never be the same when you go back. And so I highlighted that as umami, because it's just so powerful.
Jessica:I think it just hit a chord with me. There is no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not see the same, will not seem the same, for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting in tooth and a long burden. Where shall I find rest? And so, yeah, I mean just one paragraph really, just knocking me back in my chair for the plight of Frodo. You know he has done this incredible thing and he is forever changed, and what that means to him and what that means for him going forward.
Jessica:So yeah, that one really got me.
Kritter:Yeah, I believe it. That a an interesting start to the chapter. It was like, was it like the first paragraph? Uh, and just like dang oof, I took that one right in the chest, I guess, um, but yeah, I think tolkien does a really good job of like making us feel exactly how he wants us to feel. So, whereas the like little time in rivendell with old bilbo kind of hit me, like put tugged on my heartstrings a lot, this, you know, in this way was it made, yeah, frodo's having he's frodo's having a very real, very kind of sad experience and it's it's we can, we can relate. You love to see it.
Jessica:Um, especially for a character who was essentially had resigned themselves to the fact that they wouldn't live and in a lot of ways, that would would have been a simpler ending for him. Yeah, and what that means.
Kritter:Yeah and sam, at one point, after he thought frodo was dead, had that same thing where he's like do I just end it? You know, do I just end now? That would be easier, it would be easier. Um so yeah, poor frodo, basically. Uh, so the hobbits and gandalf, they make it to brie and things have changed there for the worst. Fights, fights, ruffians, bill Ferny stirring up trouble. Butterbur has been dealing with rough times, but he's heartened when he finds out that Strider of all people has been crowned King of Gondor and he exchanges that good news for other good news. Bill the Pony has made its way back to Bree. You know, I wrote it down.
Kritter:I know as a horse girl.
Jessica:I assume this news was pleasing to you so happy, made me so happy, and I love the fact that Sam went in ready to ask about Bill the Pony, and so I was just I was, yeah, two thumbs way up.
Kritter:Two thumbs way up. They spend like a cute little time in Bree. I don't know. I didn't really write down anything about while they were there. Did you have anything that stood out to you?
Jessica:I had a couple of things. I wrote that clearly stuff is a miss in Bree. Obviously they came in to a very different tone. They don't let strangers in. They don't let strangers in when they finally get into the Prancing.
Jessica:Pony Butterbeer is commenting on how the Rangers did more for them than they even realized, which I think was true for me as an audience member as well, not realizing until we really got into it what service the Rangers were doing. Butterbeer made a comment about this is the nicest chat I've had in a month of mondays. Just made me giggle. Yeah, that was precious, um. And then, of course, mary, with a sick burn over the forgotten letter yep, it was right before he remembered Bill, the pony right.
Kritter:Yes, the daughter bird's, like there was something else.
Jessica:There was something else I was like oh okay, we're not the only grudge holders Got it. I see you, Mary.
Kritter:Mary's over here like oh, it's not another letter, is it? Which fair, you know it's a pretty important letter, yeah, anyways. So yeah, it was a fun little jaunt, fun little time in brie. Um, and as the party moves to depart, butterbur mentions offhand that the shire was also facing troubles, which reminds sam of the vision he had in galadriel's mirror. Are you getting nervous for the shire now that we're almost back?
Jessica:I am because I left the mirror scene thinking, well, this could be possible, future visions not necessarily guaranteed future visions because no clarification was given at the time so I didn't know for sure what we were seeing. So, seeing how locked down brie was, um yeah, no, it has me concerned for the shire, it has the boys concerned for the shire, like why have we tarried? We need to get going. It's past time for us to get going, um.
Jessica:So I feel that, um, uh, we're, we're late, almost anxiety, like we got to go and see what the state of the state is right right.
Kritter:Unfortunately, though, now comes the time for gandalf to depart from the party. It's time for him to meet up with old tom bombadil, a moss gatherer, now that gandalf's days as a stone doomed to rolling have ended. Gandalf has been such a problem solver. Are you surprised he's not going with the hobbits to see their possible problems with the Shire resolved?
Jessica:I would like to say yes, but ultimately no. Right, like Gandalf is all about defined scope. It turns out His job description is completely related to sauron, so I had taken note. I'm like gandalf passes the torch. He's essentially telling them that fixing the shire, whatever that looks like, that's on you guys. I'm gonna go have a chat with tom um and I kind of dig it right like they have been through some stuff.
Kritter:Even.
Jessica:Butterbur comments about you look like folks who can deal with trouble out of hand. Yeah, no, I think that it's actually surprisingly right on brand for Gandalf. He punched out once Sauron was handled.
Kritter:Yeah, that's fair. He was Sauron's enemy TMm after all, so now he's got his own stuff.
Kritter:Uh, yeah, I was. Um, he loves the. He's got a lot of love for the hobbits and so part of me was like man I don't know if this is in character right I could see him wanting to help them. But it also made me proud that he thought the hobbits could handle themselves Right. So that was just like, ah, they don't need his help anymore. It's like the, you know, the student has become the master kind of a thing, like you guys cutting the apron strings. You guys go off on your own and you'll be fine.
Jessica:You'll be just fine, but I do like the fact that he didn't just Irish goodbye, right, thank God. He irish goodbye right, thank god. He said goodbye, but not for the last time, not yet um so I thought that, yeah, I thought that that was great and and to me it really was a passing of a torch, like you guys got this yeah, that's exactly what it was passing of a torch, so appropriate for the olympics time.
Kritter:um, so mary remarks, once g Gandalf departs, that it just being the four of them feels like a dream fading. Frodo responds that it feels like falling asleep again and that's the end of the chapter and the read. Any final thoughts before we pick an MVP?
Jessica:mvp. Uh, I'm just anxious to see what's next right, because the movie, the credits, would be rolling like I don't know, uh, so that's that's my thought as we close this out is to hurry up and finish the book right, because, let us all remember, jessica has seen the movie.
Kritter:She doesn't know what happens at the end of the book. Why is the book still going? We don't know.
Jessica:So I mean we did this right. We did this with Bilbo. We had a farewell tour and he had to go back home to the Shire and fight off the Sackville Bagginses for Bag End, which you know, down with the Sackville Bagginses. But this is a little bit more right, like I thought I find myself looking at the proverbial watch going. I thought that would be it. So I'm eager to see what's left yeah, okay.
Kritter:so we've got a tradition where we pick an mvp from the characters we've read for each episode. Cue the music Jessica, who would you name as your MVP this episode?
Jessica:Very torn. Ooh, explain it, lay it out. I have two picks for what I feel are two very good reasons, two very good reasons. Um, I, I think that I'm going to do it, as the honorable mention goes to Aragorn for continuing in his kingly duties and definitely doing right by the hill folk and and following through on promises that were made, you know, during wartime and all of that. But I really feel like, now that I'm thinking about it, I want to give it out to Arwen. Okay, I want to give it out to Arwen for for the gift to Frodo to ease his spirit, given you know all that he went through to save the world. Uh, given you know all that he went through to save the world, um, and I think that that was the ultimate kindness to give that to him because you know he went through a lot. Yeah, honestly.
Kritter:I so this. You know, no extreme deeds happened in this chapter, right, it was very much Lucent's being tied up. Let's talk about Gimli and Legolas going on adventures. Let's talk about Galadriel separate, fina finally leaving all this other stuff. So I agree with you.
Kritter:I my my strongest instinct was Arwen. Because of what she did for Frodo and because we didn't really get any of her motivation or strength of will in the other chapters. It was all just kind of like this is happening and Arwen's a part of it. This time she had her talk with her dad and asserted herself, made the decision that she was sticking behind to be with the person that she loved. She granted Frodo her spot on the ship assuming that's there was only one and, as you said, she gave him a means to relieve himself from his burden in a certain way. So I think the fact that she observed what needed to be done and was gracious enough to be the one to do it and gift it was uh yeah, it was noble enough in my book to deserve mvp, mvp given. Not that it was some insane deed, it was just like a really nice thing and kind of a strong thing for her to do in her very brief time as a speaking character.
Kritter:Yeah, so I agree, I think we're on the same page here as Arwen. Yeah, if you listener or watcher have different thoughts or the same thoughts, let us know. We may have forgotten. I think Eobor had some cool lines, you know, during like the feast after Theoden's funeral he gave some mad props to Eowyn and, I think, aragorn. So like good speeches there. Frodo and them hanging out with Bilbo and Rivendell was pretty great. Galadriel, sick burn. You know there's a lot of options. There's a lot of options here.
Jessica:I also considered as an honorable mention Treebeard right Because of the work, the continuing work they're doing to rejuvenate Orthanc and all all of that area. So I mean, I thought about it, but ultimately Arwen is my winner yeah, same, and Treebeard having like one last drink of the. Ent Drought. Yes, that was so good.
Kritter:I love that. It was really cute. Um, but yeah, arwen, it is across the board, but let us know, know if you picked differently. Okay, so next week, drumroll please.
Kritter:Book six, chapters eight and nine we are finishing the book and, if you're wondering, there's a lot more to this book than chapters eight and nine. You're right, there are appendices, but that is not required reading for us and the podcast. So you are welcome to read the appendices if you so choose, but we are not going to be covering it here. We're probably both going to like kind of check them out a little bit. They may come up during the episode, they may come up during the the wrap party which will be happening after we finish the book, but it's not. We're not going to say that you have to because it's pretty dry as far as we've seen so far.
Kritter:Yeah, so chapters eight and nine finish the book for next week. Crazy, crazy, crazy. All right. So thank you so much for tuning in to our seventh episode of season four of but Are there Dragons, brought to you by your host, jessica Sedai, and CritterXD. Don't forget to follow us at but Are there Dragons on YouTube, instagram and TikTok and but Dragons Pod just one T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media as CritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That is it for today. We are workshopping new catchphrases for season four, as always, so let us know on social media how you feel about this one. Goodbye, dear friends, but not for the last time, not yet Bye.
