But Are There Dragons Podcast
Two fantasy lovers quite ready for another adventure…and by adventure, we mean podcast! Join us as we–a LOTR vet and LOTR first-timer–take on the works of Tolkien! Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time.
But Are There Dragons Podcast
Season 5 Episode 7: Onyx Storm Chapters 1-30
We return to the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yarros, moving on to book 3, Onyx Storm. In this episode, Kritter and Jessica discuss the first half of Onyx Storm, chapters 1 through 30.
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You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them hasn't read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time. I'm your host, Critter. And I'm your host Jess. And we're here to talk about the first half of Onyx Storm by Rebecca Yarros, the third book in the Empyrean series. Welcome back, Critter. Welcome back, Jessica. Are you hyped to be continuing this fourth wing extravaganza we've been going on?
SPEAKER_00:I am. It's good to get back in the saddle, and it's good to get back to recording. Um yeah. Can't wait to dig in. More dragons.
SPEAKER_04:More dragons. Feels good uh to be back with the dragons, I think. Yeah. Uh lots of books coming out like recently. Um, this one didn't come out recently, but you know, it's uh it's a fun time for books, I think. The uh, for example, the Will of the Many sequel, The Strength of the Few, just came out. So as soon as I'm finished with that book, this book, I'm going to that book. Um, have you read those yet? They're so good.
SPEAKER_00:I have not. I've seen a lot of buzz around them. Uh, so I am definitely interested. I'm in the middle of a different kind of spiral. I have been, as you know, uh deep in the Dungeon Crawler Carl series. And so I have been using that as my off book when we've been on break for reading. So I am now into the most current book, The Sinevitable Ruin. Uh so as soon as we finish this book, I will be, you know, finishing Dungeon Crawler Carl, but then I will be teed up for more for a new series.
SPEAKER_04:What book, what number in the series is that one?
SPEAKER_00:Seven.
SPEAKER_04:Seven.
SPEAKER_00:So it's a pretty long series. It is, and the thing is, is they read really fast. I know that uh Mr. Jessica would absolutely love it if we did Dungeon Crawler Carl on the podcast. He's asked.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay. So uh if you're listening and you're in favor of a dungeon crawler carl deep dive, uh uh a dungeon dive, as you might say, let us know in the comments or on Discord. Uh we would love to hear your opinions about what we should read next, because as far as I know, this is the last one that has been published of Rebecca Yarros's books. There's going to be more, but this is the last one that's out. So I know we have a few other ideas about books we want to read. Um, but you know, there's the time there's infinite time when we can prioritize anything based on what you all are interested in.
SPEAKER_00:I would also say that I broke my own rule and did some indiscriminate Googling earlier, uh, which never works out for me. Uh, but thankfully I didn't spoil myself or ruin anything, but I did see like part of a tagline that gave the impression that the next book in this series might drop as soon as January. Really? I don't know how accurate that is because obviously I couldn't click on it to figure out if it was legit. Uh so you know, the the next book in this series is in the offing.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, well, that's kind of exciting because I I feel like when the next one comes out, presumably we'll probably put it towards the top of the list. So we're not quite as behind this time.
SPEAKER_00:And we'll be really timely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It'll be very timely. So uh before we dive in, one last thing, a bit of news. Uh Jessica and I actually were in the same town recently, and it was really fun, in my opinion. We were in my town, St. Louis, Missouri, and we did some touristy things. It was just a very short, brief period of time. But Jessica, how do you feel about St. Louis now that you've been there for the very first time?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I'm a big fan. We had a really good time. Uh, that's as far into Missouri as we got, so I can't wait to find another excuse to come back. Uh, St. Louis does seem like a fun little city, and I would uh Mr. Jessica and I both agree we would come back again. Obviously, getting to see you and baby dragons in their natural habitat has its own draw. Um so, but yeah, the city was very cool. It's only fair. You've come to our city before, so a few times, actually.
SPEAKER_04:A few times. Obviously, that was her WadCon, but whatever. I was there. Uh yeah, we were super, super happy to have you guys visit. It was really fun. Um, love that you got to meet the baby dragon, and hopefully we'll get to do it again sometime soon. As soon as practical. Okay, so shall we talk about Onyx Storm?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_04:All right, chapters one through 30 is all we're gonna talk about today, and we're gonna finish it out in our next episode. So we started out with Zaydan having been I was gonna say having been turned, but turning himself, becoming Venom, whatever. Um, that was the big bombshell at the end of the last book, and here we are dealing with it. So, you know, we've been we dealt with it for 30 chapters so far. We dealt with him slipping, we dealt with them deciding to put a moratorium on doing the deed. How do you feel about how this is playing out?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think that it is there are some things about it that I like and there's some things that I don't like. Go figure, right? Uh there it adds depth to it. So there are things that come with him uh turning into venom potentially, uh learning more about how that works. It's a different kind of magic, it's a different, a little bit of a different magic system. So that part interests me. It sounds like there is some societal structure around that that we get into a little bit. We hear about sages and mavens. So, you know, adding breadth to the world, always interesting. Uh, one of the things that kind of takes away from it is again, a lot of violence energy is spent on a boy, right? So rightfully so, she loves him and wants to cure him to keep him safe, which I completely understand. But when when our female protagonist's entire focus seems to be drawn to um a guy for whatever reason, sometimes that falls flat for me. And and not always throughout the book, but there are definitely times where I'm like, I get it, you have to save him, but I like it better when she's saving the world.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it is interesting. Is that a terrible thing to say? No, because when you think about it, like in her shoes, I would probably do the same thing, right? And and there's a character actually, and I promise we're not gonna spoil a lot, but there's a character in the Wheel of Time that has like a similar habit. Um, and it's a boy though. Uh his name is Karen, and people, some people hate his plots because they feel so female focused. It's like you could be saving the world, but instead you're trying to save this woman. Um, and and that's kind of what Violet feels like, right? Because it's like obviously you want to cure Zaydan because he's the love of your life, but you could be saving the world, figuring out how to kill the venom because of you know the Erid situation. There's six months left on the wards in the other region, like there's a lot going on, and your primary focus is Zaiden. And to her credit, I would probably do the same thing. And that's why I defend Perrin with my whole chest. Because it's like if it were me and it was the love of my life, that would be my priority, right? Is it as fun to read? No, right? Like, I don't like Perrin's plot is not my favorite plot, far from it, actually, but it is defensible. So I'm like torn about it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Because it's no, I get it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, both make sense. I think for me, the biggest thing about this book, and like, for example, okay, so I read Avatar like a while ago, and the first book for me, I was just like, oh, this is Beauty and the Beast. That's that was my first instinct. I stand by that assessment, and this one in particular, which is funny because this is the third Fourth Wing book or Empyrean book, this one is Twilight. And I don't know if you read Twilight, but it's I did Twilight. It's literally Zaydan pushing Violet away because he's too dangerous and he doesn't want to, you know, lose control, and we can't do it because the writer of this book is a Mormon, ironically, and I think that applies both ways in both books, but like it's there's so many similarities between Twilight right down to the scorched headboard, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like the leaving the headboard.
SPEAKER_04:Furniture breaking. There's so many similarities, and um yeah, I had forgotten, I had forgotten until you reminded me. Yeah, it just screams Twilight to me. So that's where I'm at, and I'm just waiting for the is she gonna become Venom? Spoilers for Twilight. Like, is she gonna become Venom or you know what are we gonna we'll see, we'll see. Uh, because yeah. Speaking of Venom, by the way, do you have any theories about and and it correct me if I like forget we already know this and I'm just spitballing, but the venom who's obsessed with violet, weophany. Theophany. We have a name, but do we know where came from? Okay, I actually have a theory about it. Are you ready? I'm ready. This is absurd, and again, I'm I'm consuming this like candy. This is like my ice cream on a summer night, right? So I'm not really getting into the lore here. So tell me if this is impossible, but Zaydan's mom is unaccounted for, right?
SPEAKER_00:I don't remember. I think I think there was one mention of her in one of the previous books. Definitely not.
SPEAKER_04:That she like left, like I think that she just left. Like, that's all I remember is that she's out of the picture. Not that she died, I don't think, but that she's out of the picture. And for me, she's beautiful, according to Violet. She's got a weird fascination with Violet. There's several things that just make me think, where did you come from? Why are you a character when there was that other sage that was upset? Like, where's this coming from? And the only answer that I had was this is Zayden's mom.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, that's wild. That is a hot take, and I'm into it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I had just gotten fixated on uh that when she, and I don't know which chapter it is, I could find it, but it's not relevant. Um, that one of their meetups in the first half of this book is Theophany saying, Whatever you do, when you do switch sides, you know, please let me teach you. Don't go see in so-and-so, barewind or whomever it was. Um, and so yeah, that was um that that stuck out to me a little bit. Like, why are you so hot under the collar for Violet? But I hadn't gotten to any theorizing, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know me, I'm just like so used to the Star Wars extended universe where everyone's related. That's where that's where I landed, you know? And you know, I was right about Brennan being alive.
SPEAKER_00:So Yep, you definitely were.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe I'm right here, who knows? Um, okay, so speaking of uh Perrin from The Wheel of Time, and we're not gonna really get into it, but like the very beginning of this book when Violet was kind of starting the process of I've got this plan, we're gonna find Andarna's kind, all this stuff, and somebody's like, Oh yeah, you're the boss, and she's like, I'm not, I'm not a leader, like I'm just doing what needs to be done. No bloody lord. No bloody lord. I was just like, okay, Matt Coffin, okay, Paranibara. Like, that's such a wheel of time thing for somebody to be like, I'm not leading, I'm just doing the damn thing. Yeah, did you did you think that when she said that, or was that just yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:But honest, to be fair, uh, I I hear I'm no bloody lord a lot in media. Like anytime anybody goes, Oh, that's not me, yeah, I hear I'm no bloody lord. So I kind of jumped to that.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, well, same. I mean, we're both very, very much steeped in the wheel of time of it all. So that makes a lot of sense. Oh, okay, so I forgot to mention this. Um, whenever we were talking about the twilight of it all, uh, how um Violet is convinced that like Zaydan is still Zaydan and everything's fine. He hasn't lost his soul or whatever. When Zaydan's literal dragon consents that he's not whole, like, but of course Violet knows better than the person who's or the dragon who's soul bonded to him. I don't know. To me, I'm just like, Violet, that feels a bit like wishful thinking. Denial. Yeah, denial, major denial. Um, but do you think I mean, not you don't have to have a theory, but like I assume he's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00:Do you have the I like to think I like to think that he's gonna be okay too? So one of the things that I was thinking about as we were finishing up this half was um the Dane of it all, the Dane coming back into good graces and redeeming himself and being useful and not being uh a scumbag anymore. And um, so I was kind of in the mindset of what are they gonna do with our love triangle? Are they going to are they going to whose redemption arc is gonna be better, right? Like is Zaydan gonna get saved or is Dane really gonna come in and swoop in and take the girl?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I don't actually have a theory yet. I tend to lean towards they'll fix Zaydan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, it would be great if she took it a different way. Like I'd love to be taken off guard, I'd love to see something unexpected happen, but yeah, that's kind of what we've set up so far.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. The love triangle, also in this, has become more of a love like half wheel because we've got what's his face? Uh the prince.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, Halden.
SPEAKER_04:Halden. Thank you. It's not Arik, that's the brother. Halden, we've got Halden, we've got Dane, and we've got Zaydan. And also, like, what is it about Violet? The catnip that she's got going, where every of the every one of the hottest men in the entire kingdom is obsessed with her. Like, what is she? It's it's a it feels again pretty twilight, actually, because Kristen Stewart slash Bella shows up and all the boys are coming to the yard for whatever reason. Yeah, I guess. Um, so it's just funny to witness just every boy being obsessed, hashtag obsessed with the main protagonist. Um it's a I guess a trope, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00:But from the second that they introduced Haldan, I would Haldan, I was like, why would she date this guy?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like everything he does is annoying. So yeah, how did he woo her? But I guess she did say she was like 19 or whatever. Um I don't see her getting with anybody else. Like she mentions that Halden's gorgeous. She's mentioned before that Dane is gorgeous, but every time she sees Zaydan, she is just thirsting unbelievably hard. That I think a transition away from him would feel disingenuous. It would feel unrealistic, right? Because there are all of these hot men around her, and she's only ever had eyes for Zaydan in these in this series. And so to me, it would be really cool if I mean I feel bad about this, but if Rebecca Yaroff killed Zaydan off, because then it's like, well, now what, right? The this is a romanticy. She could just be her own girl. She could just be her own. Right. So that would be a refreshing surprise.
SPEAKER_00:Um sorry for the Zaiden lovers. Romantic. So I assume that somebody's gonna get the girl.
SPEAKER_04:Right. To me, it just feels like it's gotta be Zaidan because Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she's painted herself into that corner pretty, pretty solidly with the way that she's written everything about their chemistry.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Speaking of chemistry, I wrote this as one of my favorite quotes. This is the only time that I I laughed out loud during the books, and it was in a good way, because I thought it was funny, and the way it was delivered was so just like matter-of fact. But whenever she was talking about Zaydan's eyes being weapons capable of melting the underwear straight off my body.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:Did you miss that part? No, did I?
SPEAKER_00:I think I missed that one.
SPEAKER_04:I die. I die. Like I remember reading it the first time when it because I'm I'm an audiobook early. And so the first time I was reading it at a reasonable pace, like 1.5 times speed or whatever, a normal speaking pace. And I just like laughed and it kept going. But I didn't write it down. So I was like, oh my gosh, I hope when I do my second pass, you know, to like take notes, I get to this part so I can write it down. And then uh just like earlier this afternoon, it it went across it. I was just like, oh my god, that was it. That was it, that was it. Let me pull this up. That's the one. That is the one eyes, weapons capable of melting the underwear straight off my body. That's the kind of chemistry we're dealing with here. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I must have missed that one.
SPEAKER_04:And she says something like that, not exactly like that. That one was unique, but she says something like that every time he walks into the room, just like, oh, he's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, he's devastating.
SPEAKER_04:Like just she's obsessed, she's so obsessed. Sometimes it gets a little tired, but at least she's consistent.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, yeah, I don't I can't imagine that they would that that that the author would veer away from Satan to your point.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I also have a fun super uh punny thing that I wrote down. Okay, so speaking of him being a venom and then being, you know, like putting the kibosh on intercourse, um, I said that him channeling during intercourse feels like it was obviously coming. Hey.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, that was like dad joke word.
SPEAKER_04:You're welcome. I love dad jokes. Like I will never not love dad jokes, and I apologize if you hate them. That's just something I had to do. It's something I had to do. If you're listening and hate them, sorry, but that's what you signed up for.
SPEAKER_00:So that is part of the podcast now.
SPEAKER_04:Um, okay, so now that we've talked about their relationship, and I'm sure it'll come back up because again, romantic, but can you believe that they messed with the wards? Totally. Really? Because I was like, Yes, really? That felt like such a huge risk.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it was.
SPEAKER_04:And her mom died for those wards.
SPEAKER_00:And yet, nothing has stopped her.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Okay. I mean she did it, so obviously that's like who she is and whatever, but and it's it was an incredible gamble.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, no, I don't I at risk of sounding negative there is nothing sacred. Like she will do whatever it takes.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. I mean, in this instance, it was to further the alliance and help out the flyers. So yeah, so that was and I support those choices.
SPEAKER_00:I just think that once she has made a decision that that is the path, yeah, she's relentless. Like that's the path.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. I did appreciate, even though I was like, bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off when it comes to the choice to change the wars. That felt so ungodly risky, especially after her mom sacrificed herself to get them up. The the lawyering that she did afterwards to be absolved of that treason was full pardon. It was satisfying. I liked that a lot.
SPEAKER_00:I do think that it's neat that they are. I do, I do like that the author is painting a story on multiple fronts, meaning that I'm not somebody who thinks about fantasy from a sociopolitical standpoint. And so it doesn't take a lot to impress me. Granted, I I've noted many times I'm a very passive reader. Um, but it does impress me every time she takes the takes the time and energy to show how Zaden and Violet are also leveraging any social standing they have or any leverage they have in Baskia Baskiath to further their plans. Yeah. You know, they're fighting that war on multiple fronts, and the author is taking the time to feather that in.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. It is interesting to me, like Violet, and we've talked about this in past recordings, but sometimes I appreciate it, like her lawyering in that situation. Like, hell yeah, love the brains, like you do it, do the thing, girlfriend. But then there are other times that I'm like, what are you, what is this personality that you have? And in this case, it's whenever she would go talk to Grady Markham, whoever was in charge of the task force or the the quest squad. Um, is it Grady? I can't even remember who doesn't fully matter, but anyways, I think it's Grady. She she would go to the um sanatorium, whatever they're called Scenarium, scenarium, thank you. She would go talk to the scenarium and be just like I don't know if this is like God, internalized misogyny. I hope it's not, but it felt like she was just copping an attitude. Like she is a second-year cadet, and she walks in expecting to be in charge of a squad that's going to be crucial for saving thousands, like the world, essentially. And she's just like, how dare they not put me in charge? Like, and and I don't know, it was um so I don't know if that makes me some kind of like weird institutionalist or what, but yeah, that some of those things uh got on my nerves.
SPEAKER_00:I think your point is valid though. She is young, you know what I mean? So I don't I don't even necessarily think it's gender politics at play so much as the food chain, you know, the hierarchy of it. Um because yeah, you're still a cadet.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Like just because your dragons are cool.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I know you might like speak for them, but at the same time. You're a second year cadet. Like, why would you why would you ever think that you're gonna be put in charge? I don't know. That's just that's just me. And it might be part of the way that the like I appreciate the audiobook narrator. I feel like she captures Violet's voice, or at least what has become Violet's voice for me very well. But the way that she delivers that, it's just very much like, you know, too cool for school. Snotty, snotty, and I'm just like, ugh, it just gives me the heebie jeebies, but that's just me. Sometimes Violet and me don't get along, and in this case, that's my problem.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe it's to illustrate, maybe it's to illustrate she's still got some growing up to do.
SPEAKER_04:You know, that's a good point. If that's the point, then yeah, I like it. If the author instead is like, no, she should be put in charge, at that, then I'm like, I'm not sure about that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think I feel like it go either way, right? Because the people who have been in charge clearly are mucking things up, right? True. Like, yeah, they are they are following ulterior motives and not uh you know making choices for the good of all. So uh there's a little bit of me that's like, you know, buck the system and fresh blood has its place, but still you're a student.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, I appreciate like the choices that she makes after the establishment fails, you know. They're like, oh, well, they're not gonna let us do this, we're gonna go on our own. Oh, this plan is obviously stupid, we're just gonna break the rules. Like that to me feels like a 21-year-old girl or whatever, however old she is right now. Um, but the like I expect the scenarium to give me command is kind of like, uh good luck with that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Um, speaking of the scenarium in the in the quest squad, Aura Beinhaven. Shall we chat about that piece of work?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, she is something. What is her problem? I don't, I mean, obviously, she has her marching orders and she follows them to a vault.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It was um the scene, the scene where she dies, um was, I thought, very dark, but like super realistic. Like I could feel the tension that she had. Like that city that they were in reminded me, again, I keep Wheel of Time references, guys. Sorry, of Shatter Logoth, because it's like this city um that's creepy and like weirdly abandoned, and they're you know, it's in um conquered territory, so bad guys could be anywhere. So I could understand that she's as jumpy as she is, but it just went to show that you know, that she's way too green, also, that she let the jumpiness and the fear affect her so much that she didn't even wait long enough to see who she was throwing fire at, yeah, and lighting the entire place and then ultimately dying. And the way she died was just like, ha ha.
SPEAKER_00:The flip side of that is I was actually more sympathetic for her in that moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because think about how scared she ultimately was to react like that. Um, you know, I spent the the whole rest of the time that we were introduced to her and and seeing her, that she was a nuisance and annoying, and the fact that it cost her her life is the only thing that gave me empathy for her, which says probably a lot more about me than it should. Um no, it's true though.
SPEAKER_04:It's like, first of all, you made a dumb shit.
SPEAKER_00:She was a scared kid.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, why was she on this squad? Like, I I don't know. It was it was intense, it was a good scene, I thought, just like to illustrate how it was it also felt very cinematic, right? Like they've they've talked about having a fourth wing show at some point. Prime Video was gonna do it. I don't know if it's still in the works, whatever, but that is something that I could see. Like it's it's kind of like the um uh the Harry Potter scene in the Room of Requirement when they get like the wildfire or whatever in the Room of Requirement. Yes, yeah, it's like that's kind of what I was like picturing, just like this these insane flames everywhere that they're like running away from. I don't know. And it just spreads, and it just keeps spreading. Yeah, exactly. Um, so I like that. That was probably that whole sequence was one of the highlights of this section for me. Um, just because it felt so gritty and real and did make me have a pang of sympathy for Aura, though I was pissed about which like I was both mad at her and sad for her at the same time because she didn't belong there in the first place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I had um I had a couple of littler moments, and I I tend to go through this a lot with the first half of the book. Um, I had I Theophany. I'm definitely fascinated by Theophany, and I can't wait to see more of that. Although now that you've given like this really kick butt uh prediction, I'm like, I can't top that. That's a really cool prediction. Well, it could be anything, like you know. Yeah. Uh so they uh I had mentioned at the top of the episode how uh the thing that I like about this book so far is we're expanding the world a little bit. We're seeing some countries and peoples and belief systems that we have not yet met in person, so to speak. Um, and the one that jumped off the page to me was Queen Mariah, I think that's how you say it. Um, and she's offering access to her library as an incentive. Uh so again, just another throwaway moment, uh, which tends to be my favorite. Um, I thought that was very cool. Um and uh the other thing shocker, the book puzzle piece. So the fact that there that her father used books as puzzles and um the the way that the author wrote them to be solved, uh the the you know, your first love, all of that I really, really dug um that his books were his legacy to her and also the key to how she's going to hopefully solve this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I always love in a book where they'll they give the protagonist a problem and like your wheels start turning, like my wheels start turning. I'm like, oh, what is the answer? Like, I maybe I could figure this out, you know. It's like, is it violent? It wouldn't make sense because he's got three kids. Like, there's like so many things that I was like, I thought it was dragon.
SPEAKER_00:I so I I kind of got part of the way that I was like, dragon is six letters.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's no, that's pretty good. I I did not get to his wife's dragon, but it was a good solution, you know. Sometimes, like, no real spoilers, but something like this happens in the first book of Avatar, and the solution is not satisfying, in my opinion, because the moment the riddle was given, I was like, oh, it's this.
SPEAKER_00:It was not hard at all, you know, at least for and I will say, uh no spoilers, I won't say what it was, but I actually solved the riddle when it happened, and that should tell you how easy the riddle is.
SPEAKER_04:That's why same. So I was just like, if and and this kid, the main character, granted, she was illiterate, I think, at the time. So, like, you know, I guess we can't expect her, but still, like, still.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. But, anyways.
SPEAKER_04:Any sorry, anyways, I do love a good riddle in a within a book. Like, like, for example, The Hobbit, that riddles in the dark sequence, like this is no offense to Rebecca Yarrows, nothing compared to that. That was the iconic you're trying to figure these things out while the riddles are being read. It was just so oh delectable. I just want to now that now I want to read that chapter again because it's so good. But it is, yeah. Yeah. Did I tell you? Sorry, this is such an aside, but this that's very me. And I probably did tell you during our Hobbit recording. And if you're listening and you haven't listened to our Hobbit and Lord of the Rings episodes, they're still available. And we we did a very different format that we're doing here. We took them in very small doses, like a couple chapters at a time, and we really dove deep into Tolkien's works. So I highly recommend checking them out. But I may have said this during that recording, but um I I am in like this trivia thing where with my coworkers, where like if you win the last trivia season, you become the trivia overlord who like writes the questions and stuff. And my trivia overlord season, I did a final jeopardy thing at the very end, which some people hated. But the final jeopardy thing was I didn't want it to be like, oh, if you don't know how many countries are in Asia, then you're screwed. I wanted it to be something that anybody could get, so I did a riddle from the Hobbit. Because, like, first of all, if you've read The Hobbit, then you've got an advantage. And I'd love to give people who have read Tolkien an advantage, but also you could just think it through. And so, yeah, it's like those riddles have just stuck with me forever. And I love them, anyways. Back to the books. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00:No sorry. We love a good book puzzle, I think is the takeaway from this.
SPEAKER_04:A thousand percent. Um, yeah. Speaking of puzzles, that kind of excellent transition, me. They mentioned that there uh there are like five of the most six of the most powerful signets not being on the continent at the same time in like a century or whatever. This was at the beginning of the book. They're like, you know, it was in one of the um, what are they what are those things called at the beginning of chapters? We've had this chapter.
SPEAKER_00:Um epigraph.
SPEAKER_04:Epigraph. We had this discussion before, and some for some reason I didn't digest it. In one of the epigraphs, that's what the something that was mentioned, like, you know, the six of the most powerful signets haven't existed at the same time since the last great war, something like that. And that got me thinking, what the hell are the six most powerful signets?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I assume that two of them are shadow and lightning.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And that brings up another question, which is why is lightning so powerful? And is it because of the range? Because there's fire wielders, there's ice wielders. Like, why is lightning so powerful?
SPEAKER_00:I is it that it's so powerful or that it's so rare?
SPEAKER_04:Well, but yeah, that's the yeah. So if it's considered one of the six most powerful signets, why? Or is it just one of the rarest? Is there some part of that signet because they say they like develop over time, right? So I guess something more could come from it than just lightning strikes. But I guess it is kind of like that's the closest we get to like drone strikes or bombs.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I know when they introduced her learning her signet that she had a signet that was the most easy to weaponize, like that she became an I an object of war.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and I guess like dragons, like lightning can hurt dragons, which is like fire can't, for example. Um sure. So, anyways, yeah, shadows make sense because it's like you know, shadows are everywhere, and if you can wield those, then you're you could just I mean, what other signets have we seen?
SPEAKER_00:So that we've got the mind wipe situation that imagined has.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um I mean, mind reading feels insanely powerful.
SPEAKER_00:Pretty insane, yeah. Um, we have the Riddick has the ice new ice path. Well, oh, but he's got like the water bending, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, he's waterbending is a bitch much better way to and then we have we definitely had fire, and we've had um the battle predicting, which is what like the general or the admiral or whatever has. Which does feel powerful and important.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, uh weather, working weather, because that was Violet's mom. Yeah, but that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like they would have said like, and here they are all together. You know what I mean? Um Riddick's second signet that we've discovered in this chapter, the uh the traveling, I can't remember what she's the distance wielder.
SPEAKER_00:Was it Garrick?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, sorry. Not Riddick, yeah. Riddick's the Riddick's the ice slash waterbender or bloodbender, I guess is what we would call it from Avatar the Last Hairbender. Um, but Garrick's distance wielding. Yes, that's legit.
SPEAKER_00:That came in clutch.
SPEAKER_04:That did, and I I put I wrote down like that's going to come in clutch. Something that's gonna be like he shows up in this random thing where they got caught in the tornado because we need to know that that exists for something that happens later. And I'm guessing it's gonna happen at the end of this book in like the climax, but we'll see. We'll see. Um, the fact that Violet's second signet hasn't been revealed yet has me like, what are we doing here? You know, like is she gonna have another?
SPEAKER_00:But she's not pursuing anything, not that that would necessarily make a signet reveal itself any sooner, but again, a lot of her energy is taken up with Zaiden and trying to cure him.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah, they get into some tight spots, and then she's always like, now would be a good time. It's like, sure, but we don't even know what your signet's gonna be. So I do wonder if like the time stopping, it's gonna be something related to time.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, because that was super cool, but that was Andarna's that was it was Andarna's power. Yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_04:We'll see. Because I guess it is it's supposed to come from the writer, not the dragon, right? It's like whatever. So what is what is Violet's next one gonna be? That's the big question.
SPEAKER_00:And is it gonna originate with Andarna? Like, so I I attribute the lightning to her channeling of Taron's abilities, uh, power. Yeah, so it will come from Andarna, like so what else goes with time?
SPEAKER_03:That's the question. I don't know. I am interested. Yeah, I am interested.
SPEAKER_04:Like that feels like I don't know if it'll come in this book. Part of me thinks like the final book in the series is when it's gonna happen, and it's gonna happen in like the most crucial moment. Zaydon's gonna die. It's gonna be a breaking down part two moment where she rolls back time, like she, you know, reverses 30 seconds or something like that. Like that's what I'm expecting. Instead of stopping it, he's gonna reverse it.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I think that also one of the things that I'm feeling right now being halfway through this book is that we're halfway through book three and we still don't know what the hell Andarna is. So I feel like she's done a good job at holding that close and and prolonging that suspense.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, we just found out she was unique at the end of the last book. So we at least I would like to have something by the end of this book, like maybe we find Andarna's kind. And so that tees us up to be like, now how do we defeat the Venom? You know, like now why can she burn Venom when other dragons can't, I guess? Um, which is something I don't think I really clocked. That like normal dragon fire didn't kill Venom, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00:But let's take a moment to acknowledge the power of the But Are There Dragons podcast in yet again picking a stellar mid-book cliffhanger.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay. Well, how would you describe the midbook cliffhanger?
SPEAKER_00:I think that the mid book cliffhanger was just chef's kiss because it was us finding out that the attendants in the new land that we're going to all have silver hair just like Violet. And ain't that a thing?
SPEAKER_04:So interesting, fascinating, even. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's it's it's interesting. It's there there are certain things about this book though that um I think because we stopped halfway, it's like, okay, what did we read? What do we read? We read them going on a series of mini quests. And the last two mini quests, I three, uh depending on how you quantify them, it's been like, we're going to go to a noble's residence and we're gonna convince them of something. And that's happened thrice now. Like one time it was, you know, it was easy. Like they brought the citrine or no, no, that the citrine one was the hard one.
SPEAKER_00:Um, the first one was the uh when they went to see the guy that was gonna collect violet cards.
SPEAKER_04:Maybe the guy that cat knows, like that place. That was easy. That was an easy one. It was like, oh, we're here. This is where we're gonna the next one was intense because they kidnapped the prince. Zaden had to channel all of that nonsense. That was terrible, and then now we've got this third one, I think, which is Zayd's gonna have to do trial by combat, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and he's doing it on purpose, like he literally went in picking a fight, which is fine, you know, play to your strengths, dude. But yeah, um, yeah, no, they go right in fully intent to just pick a fight.
SPEAKER_04:Right. So I'm I'm I'm I'm ready for the next Unbreal.
SPEAKER_00:That's where they are. They're in Unbreel.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, yeah. I'm ready for them to find some dragons or do something other than go on little quests and to talk to nobles.
SPEAKER_00:And I've got to tell you, I can't wait to meet a dragon that isn't part of the Basgiath machinery.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I need a perspective from a dragon who is not part of this rigmarole because I feel like they're going to have some choice things to say about the Imperion and how they have chosen to continue to participate in this.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I can't was it Tairn? Somebody who said there's a reason they left. This is finding them might not be the happy reunion Indarna is expecting, right? It could be, it could go very badly. We could all die. And to me, it's it is kind of like I do enjoy, and it's happened in, I'm not gonna say what books, but like some books and maybe like shows and stuff that I've watched recently where it's like the hero's like, I need to go do this thing, and if I do this thing, we're gonna win, you know, or we're gonna get the thing we need. And then they go do the thing, and it's completely not what they expected at all, and it's actually terrible. That's what I'm nervous about. Like, is it gonna actually not help at all? Well, we have gone on all these mini quests only for terrible things to happen. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Speaking of Tarn, the way that he keeps calling Zaydan the dark one.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's that distracting.
SPEAKER_00:And part of the it's not distracting, it's I think it's kind of funny. I think that he's trolling her. I think that he's trolling Violet. Oh. And I think it's funny. Um, he he may think it. I I do think of Tarn as like like an I'm about to retire school teacher who doesn't have a lot of patience anymore. Like he's used up all of his patience and he's literally just counting down the days until his last season is done.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um he's a lot more patient and tolerant with Violet than he used to be. Um, but I do think that he is trolling her by calling him the dark one. I don't necessarily think that he believes it 100%, but who knows? Um, I think that he's doing it to irritate the crap out of her.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, I like that take because to me, given how Segael is with Zaiden, which is apparently very cold and not happy, I just assumed Tarant was on team Segael.
SPEAKER_00:But I never got the feeling that Sgail was a warm and fuzzy to begin with.
SPEAKER_04:Fair.
SPEAKER_00:Granted, Zaydan is the one who has said that you know the tone has shifted.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, I never got the impression that Sgail was a uh touchy-feely dragon.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Okay, so what all what have we not talked about yet? Is there anything we've missed?
SPEAKER_00:Um uh I think we talked about how some of the political intrigue. We've talked about, I mean, that last reveal where Zaydan accidentally channeled again, and now his eye color is starting to change, and that is renting up Violet's concern.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um that Violet and her quest team have like interns now. We didn't really talk about that. We have all these first years, and her first reaction was to let them write papers. Um, we didn't really touch on that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was pretty good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's I thought that was pretty funny because I'm like, you guys are really only half a turn older than them. So this is pretty dang funny.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, you know who we haven't talked about is that gosh dang Jack Barlow. It was weird to me. Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about the venom attack either. So the venom attack on the school was unexpected. Um, they could be hiding in plain sight, which is a little terrifying. And the fact that they went to rescue Jack Barlow before trying to mess with the wards. Yeah. Why? Wow, why what's so special about him? I don't know. And it better be something because otherwise they obviously would have gone for the wards, in my opinion. I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, because in my opinion, he is a you know, baby venom. Why does he matter?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, other than the fact that he was like one of their plants, that was pretty effective.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and but clearly they were able to put more plants, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Plants. Yeah. Yeah, that was an interesting choice. Choice. Yeah. And Violet getting information out of him. None of that information so far has seemed overly relevant or helpful, but maybe I'm forgetting something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I think it was, I mean, that's the first time we hear sages and mavens or mavens.
SPEAKER_04:Maven is the uh that was a new one. And I guess he did confirm that they can like sense each other until they learn how to mask it. And that you you can't just accidentally channel unless you already know how to use magic. So those things, you know, it kind of basically like closes loops for us where we're not like, okay, the infantry's gonna all of a sudden all become venom. We don't have to worry about that, basically.
SPEAKER_00:I also what I got out of that more than even those pieces was that they can stave off the hunger by her feeding him, you know, the dagger or whatever, like by her giving him the whatever she gave him that he was able to suck the energy out to take the edge off. Yeah. Um, so I feel like that interaction that was the thing I took away from that the most. That there was a there's a release valve. Okay, there's a holdover mechanism.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:We'll see. I don't want Jack Barlow to be important.
SPEAKER_04:I don't either. I want him to go away. I want him to die, honestly. Like, I got nothing. Yeah, no real connection with this man.
SPEAKER_00:We've never been a fan, we've been consistent.
SPEAKER_04:Right. He's the worst. Um, okay, so I feel pretty good about it. You feel pretty good about our discussion here?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I only had one other thing that I wanted to mention, one other scene that I had marked as my favorite, and that was again another really small thing. Um, it's when they are on one of their mini quests, and they are finally at a place where the power doesn't come through. So um Zaydan is cut off. I was gonna say cut off from the source. Um, Zaydan is, you know, free of the burden and he's he's acting lighter, he feels better. And Violet makes a comment about maybe we could stay here so that you know we don't have to worry about things getting worse for you. And Zaydan's response is that he's not sure if the dragons can survive here, and he thinks that they might even be in pain being cut off um from magic the way that they are. And honestly, sometimes I'm not a huge Zaden fan, but in that moment, that was like a very selfless moment, a selfless observation. Um, and I found that to be very endearing, especially since there's so much concern about his soul's current status.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So uh that was just a really endearing moment towards the end of this part of the read. Yeah. So it was a reminder that, like, oh, that's right, Zaydan has good stuff going on, and that's why we want him to overcome.
SPEAKER_04:That's a really good point, actually, because I haven't really been that concerned with the state of his soul. Just like, well, they're gonna figure it out, I guess. Like, whatever. But you're that's you know, him having that empathy for the dragons, and he in that same conversation, he was like, I know that you would never want to abandon the people that you love either. And so he did show a lot of he showed some soul there that we don't always get because half the time that we see Zayton he's just thirsting over Violet or acting super cocky. So, um, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like the last time I felt that positive towards him was when it was revealed that he had taken on the markings for all of the rebellion kids. Like that was another endearing moment that he, you know, wanted to look out for all of these kids. Um, so it was very akin to that for me.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So every episode of But Are Their Dragons, we assign an MVP. And in these books, because we're not doing it like little chapters at a time, we're doing it half a book at a time, we assign an MVP and a runner-up MVP. So we're gonna start with the runners up and work our way up. Jessica, who is your runner-up MVP this episode?
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna be so surprised with my picks tonight. So I had a little bit of a hard time choosing this time through. I feel like I say that every time. Uh, so for my runner-up, I am picking Garrick. I feel like Garrick is pulling some big double duty trying to keep everybody safe. And the reveal of his uh speed traveling and the relevance of it in maintaining those safeties is a big deal. Yeah. So I think Garrick is a solid runner-up for me.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00:How about for you?
SPEAKER_04:I think for me, it's gonna have to be Dane. You know, or what do we used to call him, Dave? Dave? Yeah. Now I'm now I'm I considered it. Yeah, now I considered it. Um, Dave, aka Dane, not only was instrumental because his like uh translation skills, his language skills, um, he was also a friend for Violet, right? They were they had some moments of reminiscing and whatnot, but the biggest thing about it was that he retrieved Violet's dad's texts from his dad's office. He fully recognized, you know, that he was his dad is not in the right at this point, even though he was super loyal to him before, and the fact that he went against his blood family to help the world, essentially, but also Violet, because they were such good friends, really spoke a lot about his progression from where he started as just this rule following square of a like I hated him, and now I'm like, uh, he's like actually really nice. I want him to find somebody, I want him to like get in a relationship with Kat or something. I don't know. Like, I I need him to be happy.
SPEAKER_00:I like I said, I considered it, and also I really liked them sprinkling in some of their non-toxic history. Yes, I really enjoyed that too. Time before when he wasn't being, you know, hey, you know what? Yeah, so yeah, solid, solid runner up. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_04:All right, so uh MVP time, Jessica. Who's your MVP?
SPEAKER_00:So for my MVP, I picked somebody who I thought was integral to keeping everything flowing for all the plans. Uh, so I picked Eric. Eric because he had to step up to uh make up for his big brother's, you know, wildly inappropriate behavior um and put so many things in jeopardy. And I kind of loved the symmetry that I feel like Eric stepping up into that, even though he has made it clear from his introduction, like, I don't want to do that life, I just want to do this life. But he did it anyway because he knew it needed to happen and he knew it had to come from his family, and he knew that all of the plans, uh, both political and survival related, all hinged on Violet's quest seekers going forward. So he did what he needed to do, even though that's not the life he wants to do. And I thought that that was MVB material. I love that.
SPEAKER_04:So I have to ask, how is his name spelled?
SPEAKER_00:It's A-A-R-I-C.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so the audiobook narrator pronounces it Arik. So when you said Eric, I was like, totally, I know who that is. I figured it's a good one.
SPEAKER_00:It's like the time that you said the dragon teeny, and I'm like, there's a dragon teeny?
SPEAKER_04:Tiny, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So Arik.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, Arik, very cool. So mine uh might be controversial, and if you're listening and you want to debate, oh like give us your MVPs, do so in the comments or or on Discord. But I just couldn't get it out of my head that Riddick deserved some flowers because he was doing the most to try to help Violet. Like, I the way that Violet phrased it whenever she brought him in to be part of the quest squad was just like, he has my personal safety, or like my personal safety is his top priority, or something like that. And it was just such a sweet thing that he is like, I want to protect you. We do better together. Nobody else can do it but me. Like, I've been reading every waking moment. Like, he's such a goofball so you forget that like he was just trying so hard to be valuable.
SPEAKER_00:He said that in one of the scenes. Like, he said something about, well, I haven't just been twiddling my thumbs, like I've also been doing the homework. Because I will tell you, it I went back and forth between Garrick and Riddick, so I'm glad that you picked Riddick.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. I'm yeah, I I just really appreciated him because he's been such a goofball this whole time that I've kind of written him off as the comedic relief, the Ron Weasley of the situation. But he he really endeared himself to me in this, in this, in these first 30 chapters. So I'm excited to see like what happens with him in the rest of the book. I hope him being on the quest squad is gonna pan out in like a really cool way.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my gosh, we both picked all guys. Oh I don't feel like that happens very often.
SPEAKER_04:No, because the last book wasn't Justinia, the ultimate MVP, like in the end of the book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm gonna have to go back and check the notes.
SPEAKER_04:I know, I know. Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. Well, good for us. You know, we don't discriminate. Yeah, good job for the boys. This one's for the boys, I guess. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Great.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Well, I think that is gonna be it for us, which means that it's time for us to talk about what's next. So for our next episode, we are going to finish Onyx Storm. So it's chapter 31 forward, and we are gonna read that second half and have that episode drop for you on December 23rd, anywhere you get pods or on our YouTube channel. So look forward to that. And with that, we would like to say thank you so much for tuning in to our seventh episode of season five of Butt Are There Dragons, brought to you by your hosts, Jessica Sedai and CritterXD. Please don't forget to follow us on at Butt Are There Dragons on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and Butt Dragon Pods, just one T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media as CritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That's it for us today. We commend the first half of Onyx Storm to Malik. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Bye.
