But Are There Dragons Podcast
Two fantasy lovers quite ready for another adventure…and by adventure, we mean podcast! Join us as we–a LOTR vet and LOTR first-timer–take on the works of Tolkien! Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and work their way through it a few chapters at a time.
But Are There Dragons Podcast
Season 6 Episode 2: Project Hail Mary First-Time Reader Discussion + Oscar Noms Chat!
Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read, and talk about it. For our sixth season, we're reading Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, in anticipation of the movie starring Ryan Gosling coming out in March! We finished the book for this discussion, Chapters 15-end, and we're joined by Mr. Kritter himself, Garrett!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Hello and welcome to What Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm your host, Critter.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm your host, Jess. And welcome back to season six, episode two, where we're discussing the back half of Project Hail Mary. How's everybody doing tonight?
SPEAKER_02:Doing good. Doing good. Doing good.
SPEAKER_03:We have a very special guest. Would you like to introduce yourself to anybody who is watching or listening, Mr. Critter?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, sure. I am uh I'm Garrett. Uh I am Critter's husband. Um also a fairly avid uh reader of stuff and things. So just wanted to come on and share some thoughts about a book that I actually really enjoyed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. And he's a bit of a hater sometimes. No, I'm kidding. I've talked about it on the Wheel and Chill show a little bit, how he's like been a little soft at portions of the Wheel of Time show. So he is not afraid to be critical, um, which, you know, I appreciate. So I will ask to kick us off since you don't really have any like projects to plug, you're not a content creator, so to let them get to know you a little bit better. What would you say your favorite book andor book series is? And if you want to get specific, it's like if that's too broad of a question, make it a sci-fi or fantasy book, or one sci-fi book and one fantasy book. Whatever you want.
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh. Um man. That is tough. Um, I don't know that I could pick like a favorite. I could pick some favorites. So I read uh The Magicians recently, the trilogy, and I really enjoyed that a lot. Um it's kind of an interesting like throwback to you know, what was it like to read Harry Potter as a child? What is it like to read the magicians as an adult, right? Very uh very absorbing and and very fun, but also uh very adult and and terrible in a lot of ways. So yeah, that was interesting. Um on the sci-fi side, I like all kinds of stuff. Um recently, uh obviously read Project Hell Mary, but I tend to like a lot of um almost like detective style uh or suspense, I guess, sci-fi that I've been reading recently. I read The Gone World, um, which was a really interesting one that was kind of like a detective sci-fi, um, very weird um, but very, very fun. Um, I've read a lot of like Blake Crouch's stuff, which is kind of just like fun, like turn your brain off, action-y sci-fi suspense stuff. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I could pick like a favorite.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Because there's just a nice sampling though.
SPEAKER_03:That was a good one.
SPEAKER_00:If I if I had to say like a pure sci-fi, probably my favorite was like Hyperion.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean that's an incredible one. Yeah. And you would Wheel of Time is up there for you, correct?
SPEAKER_00:On the fantasy side, yeah, it's up there. Uh I so I have to be honest, I don't like really long like epic fantasy stuff. Um, I tend to stay away from it. I think Wheel of Time is the only epic fantasy I've actually finished, if that makes you feel better.
SPEAKER_02:So that says something.
SPEAKER_00:I do like it. Uh I do like it a lot. I really, really enjoyed the story arc, but definitely got bogged down in some of the you know details of a many thousands of pages long series.
SPEAKER_02:No, you're not alone in that. I can't relate, but you're not alone. Um, okay. Well, I hope, audience, that you now feel like you know Mr. Critter, aka Garrett a little bit better with his book tastes. Um, we are gonna start this episode, to the extent we haven't already started it, with a new segment. And we've kind of already been doing this, but we're gonna we're gonna give it a name. And that name is But Are There Updates. Basically, we're gonna talk about whatever we want to talk about. I usually gonna be things that are recently on our minds. And today, the recording day, uh, the Oscar nominations got released. And some of the movies that are nominated are movies that I saw this year and really, really, really enjoyed. So, did you did you all see the nominations, or should I give you a little bit of a rundown? Okay, you guys didn't see it. That's fine. Um, Garrett, you and I watched these movies together, but for example, the best picture nominees include uh Bugonia. Well, there it's relevant to this podcast also because there's a lot of what feels like sci-fi fantasy horror stuff in the nominations, which isn't always the case. So I was really pleased to see that Bugonia was nominated. Um Sinners was nominated, which is a credible horror. It actually broke the record for the most nominations of any movie ever, which was super cool. Why, yeah, why? I think it got 16. Um The Frankenstein actually got a solid number of nominations, which I was pretty excited about. And then, oh my gosh, there was one more that I can't I can't remember. We just watched it. Um oh well, doesn't I come up with it? So Jessica, have you seen any of those movies?
SPEAKER_03:No, they're all three on my list. Okay. Um, so Frankenstein, more so than Sinners, just because it's at least IP I'm somewhat familiar with. Um, Sinners looks interesting to me. Horror generally isn't my jam.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:But I do I do occasionally dip my toes in. I've just had a couple of not so great horror experiences that make me like leave it for ages at a time. Um and begonia just looks interesting. So they're all on my list. I just have not been um I haven't been consuming movies much lately, I guess. I I I made I made time for Wicked and Wicked for Good, but got completely snubbed.
SPEAKER_02:Wicked for Good, no nominations, not a single one.
SPEAKER_03:So Okay, okay. But otherwise we've been doing a lot of Bengeble TV. So it it just we go through phases, and that's currently my phase. So now I know I'm gonna uh we are this is gonna sound so silly. We are just about to finish Smallville because I had never watched it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, Tom Welling was my childhood like heartthrob crush. Before I had a picture of Garrett as my desktop background, I kid you not, it was a picture of Tom Welling. Like, and it wasn't my desktop.
SPEAKER_03:Strong choice, like strong choice. Uh Garrett, don't take it personally, but I mean Tom Welling, Tom Welling is a specimen. Yeah. Um Mr. Jessica knows how I feel about that as well, so it's fine. I was a supernatural girly. Uh have actually even been to like a supernatural convention. Like I was a supernatural girly. Um I've never thought I don't know, I know. I mean, it has its own, it has its own lore, it's got its own jumping the shark moments, it's got its own fanatical fangroup. I also kind of dabbled in that, right? Like that was that was my actual first con, believe it or not. I went to that before I found Wheel of Time. So yeah, it's kind of fun. Uh, but anyway, and so and Jensen Accles crossed over. He did a season in um Smallville, and yeah, so that's one thing that Daniel and I have in common. We like um we like that kind of story. So we uh try to find shows that are bingeable, and every once in a while, like currently we're watching Stargate as well, because I've never watched the show.
SPEAKER_02:He's yeah, he's Stargate's like up there. Would you say that's your favorite series, Gare?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think Avatar the Last Air Render is probably like my favorite series of all, but um favorite sci-fi, I think Stargate and like the next generation are probably like tied.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So yeah, so we're only about a handful of episodes into Stargate. We we started with the movie, which seems like it's appropriate. Um Yep. And uh so yeah, we're just starting off into Stargate World. And it's been it's been fun, but that's usually what we do, you know, nine times out of ten. And then every once in a while I'll be like, I need just a regular movie. We go from there.
SPEAKER_02:That's fair. So um, Garrett, I'll mention, even though this isn't in the sci-fi fantasy horror category, one battle after another was also nominated. So between the four that I mentioned, the four that we have seen so far, although I really want to see Marty Supreme because I'm a big Timothy Shakalakaboom fan, so I like really want to see it. Um, especially because he's like one of the front runners for best actors, so I gotta I feel like I gotta be informed. Um, so out of Sinners, one battle after another, Bugonia. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:Is that Agni?
SPEAKER_02:That's Agni.
SPEAKER_03:His Majesty is not happy.
SPEAKER_02:And Frankenstein, what would you pick is your best picture?
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's tough. Because they're all really good. They're all very unique and very different.
SPEAKER_01:Very different.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like Sinners is probably the most well-rounded of all of them. Like it's probably the best all-around movie experience.
SPEAKER_02:So entertaining. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it has a lot, it has a lot going for it. The weirdest by far is begonia. That that movie is, I think, too weird to win Best Picture, to be honest. Like, it's very bizarre. It was very well done.
SPEAKER_02:Emma Stone was nominated for Best Actress, but get this, Jesse Plemens did not get the nomination for actor. Which is wild because he was so he's good in everything, but he was so good in that. Like very just something else. Like, I mean, it's not really spoiling anything because you know at the very beginning that he is just unhinged and uh he played it, he did it well. Um, so yeah, I think that was the biggest snub for me was that he wasn't nominated. And but I tend to agree with you. I think Sinners, of all the best picture nominees that I have seen, that one would win for me, even though I really had a great time with Bogonia, and I loved Frankenstein. I want to see Frankenstein get some like cinematography or something like that, because it is a beautiful movie, and Jacob Ballorty got nominated for best supporting actor for it. So I mean, I think it's like a shoe-in, I would hope, for like, you know, the makeup, maybe you know, costuming production design. Production design, but like even just the cinematography, because it's gorgeous, it's absolutely stunning. Um so yeah, if I had to pick though, I'd say center's number one, best picture. What we just watched one battle after another, and after we watched it, we kind of looked at each other, we were like, because it I think it won the Critics Choice Award, and we were like, Okay. I mean, it was fun, but like I don't even know what it's about.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't either, and honestly, and that's fine.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, I would I would go in blind for sure, too. But it's uh it's a great movie. I mean, there's nothing, you know, it's kind of weird because in my mind, like nothing wrong with it, but also there's not a lot that I'm like, this really stuck out to me about it, I guess. It's just like fun. It's a fun movie, kind of funny most of the way through, good action, good cinematography. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just there wasn't a ton that I was like really into, I guess.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, some people are saying that this it it's it may win best picture just because Paul Thomas Anderson hasn't yet. Yeah. Which to me, I hate those. I hate it when it's like, okay, well, you've got this body of work that's robust enough that it's finally your time, even though like in the moment, this is not the one. This isn't your best, you know. So, anyways, it's fine. I don't, I like if it wins, I'll be like, okay. But if Sinner wins, I'll be like, Sinners wins, I'll be like, hell yeah, brother, let's go. So, anyways, I think that was a good first, but are there updates? Well done, us. Sorry, Jessica, that I picked a topic that you are somewhat unfamiliar with.
SPEAKER_03:But I'll be able to do that. That's our that's kind of our MO, right? Like you're the vet and I'm just uh plugging along.
SPEAKER_02:So a lot of these movies are now available on streaming for what it's worth on the various streaming platforms.
SPEAKER_03:So, like and that's my game, right? Like I want to watch something on my TV with my snacks on my couch.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Except for Segway when Project Hail Mary comes out in March.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, hell yeah.
SPEAKER_02:With Ryan Gosling at the head playing Grace. What I always forget his Ryland Grace, which is interesting. And we talked in the last episode about how we thought that, like I thought it was good, uh, a good casting because I don't really get like a person in my mind when I read books typically. And so he's got the dry humor for me, and I think it just really it'll work and it fits. Other people are less inclined with like, oh, that's not really who I pictured. It it's more of it would have been more of a who did Daniel say that was like uh oh gosh. Um was it the guy who played Bones or whatever? I'm trying to even no, it's somebody else.
SPEAKER_03:No, it's it'll come to me.
SPEAKER_02:I said Jeremy Renner text you and then he Yes, and he was like he was like a guy that looks just like him.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yes, it was it was literally a same difference moment. Uh regardless, yeah, but he got there, right? Like that's yeah, he was like, you can do things, and gosling does have a great humor. Like, I'm stoked. I cannot wait. Yeah, um how do you feel about the casting?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, I don't know that I had too many thoughts. I thought it was good. Like, I think it's I'm glad that they got somebody like you know who can actually do really well in the role, right? Um but I don't know, like I'm kind of with you in that I don't necessarily always picture what people look like or anything, you know, like while you know, outside of like major features, maybe like if they're supposed to be really tall or that's a defining feature or something, like yeah, sure, I'll you know think about that as I'm reading, but otherwise, it doesn't bother me too much. Um, I think it was a good casting in the sense they got somebody who could play like a somewhat funny and serious role, which is definitely what they needed. Um, so it made sense to me. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:All right, so we have officially finished Project Hail Mary. We ended the last, I don't even remember where the last half ended, if I'm honest.
SPEAKER_03:Um chapter 14. And so we left off with Rocky had just created his own, like oh, they he was coming into the ship. Jurable ball that's so that like life support units so that he could come in to Ryland's ship.
SPEAKER_02:That's correct. So, not long after that, if I'm just gonna jump right in, there was an extremely stressful situation where Rylan gets like pinned under a chair and almost dies, and then Rocky essentially sacrifices himself to save him, and and then Ryland tries to in return save Rocky. Anyways, it's this back and forth saving situation where it was a lot of stress. And and did we ever did anybody think somebody wasn't gonna make it? How do we feel about the whole you thought somebody wasn't who'd you th who did you think was gonna die?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I didn't know, right? But like that was all I could think of in the first book. Once we introduced, once we met Rocky, I was like, holy shit, excuse my language, this was a suicide mission, and that was fine in my brain until it was possible that it was a suicide mission that was gonna be witnessed by another living creature. And so this was the second half was very edge of my seat for me because I'm like, oh, well, somebody's gonna die. Well, it's just a question of who now.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so you thought it was gonna be perhaps one or the other. Maybe, maybe. Okay. Garrett, did you get stressed when the when lives started getting on the line?
SPEAKER_00:No, I don't know. I have I have such a problem being like kind of meta about books, and I was like, okay, we're not like anywhere close to the end in this thing, and uh this like relationship is pretty much driving this story, so there's like no way they're just gonna like kill one of them off, you know, halfway through. So it was like, you know, it's stressful, it's suspenseful in like I don't know. I always think of like his books as like little puzzle boxes. So like the stress is in like, okay, how are they gonna figure it out? Right? There's this crazy problem going on, what crazy thing is going to happen to fix it? Um so yeah, I was less less uh convinced that anybody was gonna actually be dead.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and part of the problem solving ended up being not really a good solution. Um one of the ways that Grace tried to save Rocky was kind of like power washing him or uh like you know, snow blowing him.
SPEAKER_00:Remember what he used to do. Pressurized air or whatever. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, he used like an air compressor to blow out essentially the scabs off of Rocky's wounds.
SPEAKER_03:But what he thought he was doing was blowing out like dust and char. Yeah. Which I I fully subscribe, like I had committed 110% in the moment. I'm like, yes, brother, you are good job.
SPEAKER_02:I do appreciate when the problem solver who's been solving all hashtag all the problems just completely whiffs, like zero out of ten makes the exact wrong choice. Obviously, it didn't end up in tragedy, but it could have, you know. Again, I'm kind of though with you, Garrett, where I didn't think they were ever actually like really gonna die. I have that same thing with like shows where it's like, I don't want to spoil anything, but you know, in one of the biggest fantasy shows ever, a character dies. And I was like, no, I don't care. There were like two years between seasons. Never for one second was I like, oh yeah, he's definitely dead. No, absolutely not. He was alive the whole time. Well, actually, he was dead, but then they brought him back, which is what I expected. But you don't know what I'm talking about unless you do. Um anyway, so we talked about this in the last episode, Garrett, and since you have a math and science background, actually. Um, fun fact, Garrett was a math major with a physics minor in college. I know. What? Anyway, so as a math major, physics minor, was the science real science? And or did it did it distract you? Did you like it? How do you feel about the science in Project Tail Mary?
SPEAKER_03:Or was it sciencey enough?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, was it sciencey enough?
SPEAKER_03:Was it too sciencey?
SPEAKER_00:Uh well, I am no expert because I have been, you know, not participating in any of those fields for a long time.
SPEAKER_02:But so I mean, you know, you know more than I do.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, sure. But um no, I mean, I found it like entertaining and like I I guess just based on my education, it was definitely like stuff that I, you know, grocked. I understood what was going on and I understood the solutions, and like, you know, I like his books for that reason because they are again kind of just like these like science puzzle boxes where you're like, oh, what kind of like fun, you know, interesting loop is he gonna run through here to solve this, uh to solve this problem. And it all made sense, you know. Like, I mean, obviously the Astrophage is like space magic, so you can't really can't really say much about that. But and like so much of like how they solve problems is based on the astrophage, right? And a lot of it's like biology stuff, which again, not really my background, but you know, from what I understand, was was pretty seemingly legit. Um, but no, I mean like from a physics perspective, like I think one of the things that was kind of funny for me was reading um the part where Rocky's trying to explain like why he had so much fuel left. And like at first I was like, what is he talking about? But then like two sentences in, I was immediately like, oh my gosh, yeah, this guy's never heard of relativity before. Like that's hilarious. So, you know, stuff like that where it's like, you know, if you know enough to like kind of understand at a surface level what's going on, he puts these fun bits in there that you can kind of figure out before the characters figure out, and that's a lot of fun, too.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, you definitely can. I'm over here like, okay, relativity. They talk about that in Interstellar for sure.
SPEAKER_03:They definitely mentioned that somewhere. Um Yeah, we're I'm more of a vibe, Scarly. So I did you I I want to ask you this as somebody who at least has a fighting chance of understanding the science more. I was definitely um much more involved from like uh putting on my sleuth hat and trying to problem solve along the way. Whereas typically when I read, I'm very passive, like I'm just along for the ride. Um and I don't know why, but it I think it's a compliment to the writer that he like engaged me and I was like, oh, this is a problem I should try to solve, even though I don't know squat about science. Um, so for someone who does at least have a passing knowledge of science, was it a thing where you were trying to solve alongside with the puzzle box, or were you just waiting for him to tell you? Because I do understand your point, right? About anything related to the astrophage, other than are you consistent with the premise you've set, you can't problem solve that.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Yeah, no, um, for sure. There were like, there's quite a few things, like situations that come up in the book where I'm like, oh yeah, like I, you know, I might not have done it exactly that way, but I was like thinking along those lines. Like I think this is like way early on in the book, but when he's like not sure where he is and he's trying to figure out like why gravity doesn't feel right, and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna make this basically pendulum uh to like measure the effect. I was like, okay, yep, that makes sense. Like that's kind of where I was going. I was like, he's you know, he started like measuring some things, but then he's like, nah, I can do it, I can do it more precisely this way. Um, that was kind of an interesting one. Uh like later in the book when they're talking about um the this is actually more on the biology side, but I feel like I kind of figured out almost like immediately for some reason, like right when they were talking about like, oh man, what happened to the fuel supply or whatever? I was like, oh man, yeah, they have like some resistant, they have a resistance strain in there, right? And like, but they can use that, right? Like they can they can breed these things, like they could figure this out. So it's like stuff like that again, where it's like if you have some, you know, I spent some time uh in college working as a mathematician for like a biology team. So I was like, okay, I like I picked up some stuff from that enough to be like, yeah, all right, that makes sense. Yep, I was I was kind of on the same page, like I see where they're going with some of these, but others are kind of like out of the blue too. Like they're you know, I see how they solve it, and I'm like, oh, that's uh not how I would have thought about that, but that's really interesting. So there's enough, I think, that it's like I said, you know, again, by no means an expert, um, but you know, just based on surface level knowledge of stuff, it's like, yeah, I can I can grok a lot of it, and I can have some of my own insights and also think about these in a similar-ish way, maybe to the main character.
SPEAKER_02:Is this so is this math and science speak, or am I just like not hip enough? Grok? Like that's the the Twitter AI.
SPEAKER_00:Is that like a word before the Twitter AI happened? No, uh, yes, it was Stranger in a Strange Land is the uh is uh Heinlein novel that introduced that term. It's basically to understand I've used it for forever because I'm old and I'm older than Grok the AI. So okay, but I mean we're the same age, and I don't know that I've ever heard that, but I haven't read Stranger Science.
SPEAKER_02:You were doing the sci-fi back in the day. No, yeah, I wasn't.
SPEAKER_03:I've heard the reference, I didn't know what book it went to, but that it was just like a general understanding, like you're able to like reason out what a thing means, but I didn't know what it was a reference to.
SPEAKER_02:Now I extra hate that X commandeered that. Ugh.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I hate it too. I honestly even forgot that that was a thing because I just kind of ignore what's happening over there, but still on X and every comment section is Grok.
SPEAKER_02:Explain that. Grok, is this true? Grok, what's going on? People are terrible. It's awful.
SPEAKER_00:I uh I choose to live my life without social media, so I have no concept of what even goes on in the world out there.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, probably way better for all of your mental health.
SPEAKER_00:Somebody left to fact check me though. Uh I'm pretty sure. Are you Googling or your keyboard is been yeah, it's been like 20 years since I've read that, so I have to make sure that that's actually where I where it came from or if I'm just hallucinating. Yeah, I'm sure you're probably right.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so we've got so we talked about how this book is based on the uh flashback model. Um, Grace is learning about the mission in flashbacks throughout him actually being on the mission. And one of the flashbacks in this segment was the explosion, was the last minute both of the science officers getting murdered, not murdered, but via a mistake, an innocent mistake, clerical error, they got killed, right? So Jessica, how did you how did you take that? Were you surprised by that? Obviously, we knew that he ended up on the mission.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I was surprised, even though we did know that eventually he winds up in the chair, right? But I was still surprised because they I I swallowed it hook, line, and sinker like I always do, that you know, Ava Strat had a policy in place that uh narry the two shall meet, like never have all of you in the same place for redundancy purposes. So I just swallowed that part and parcel, right? So uh once they did the explosion, I was like, uh, I was more like holy cow about the the tragic death, and less about oh well that's how he ends up in the chair.
SPEAKER_02:That's fair, that's fair. Garrett, were you surprised? Like, how did that how did that how did the the explosion hit you?
SPEAKER_00:Um less surprised, but definitely um like a shocking turn of events, right? Like yeah, I I kind of was waiting all along for like something horrible to happen to the researchers, mainly because like I don't know, it's it's kind of like a sci-fi trope, like uh strange alien thing that I'm tooling around with, it's gonna blow me up at some point, right? Yeah um, and it hadn't really gone badly for in any way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I was gonna say things were going along really well for quite a while.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I'm surprised, yeah. Surprised like how and what happened. Um, but the fact that like something happened to kind of throw a wrench into things uh wasn't super surprising. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it uh to me was more of a like, oh so so believable that it was based on a clerical error, right? It's just like, of course that's how it happened, right? Like human error is gonna mess things up. Um, I agree with you, Jessica, that I was also like, why were they in the same place? Like, like I understand because I remember them saying, like, of course, they're never gonna be on the same helicopter at the same time and stuff like that. But instead it was just like keep them separated at all times, or or else, you know, there are only what 7,000 people in the world that have this gene. So, and how many of those are scientists? Like there, it was just it was not it was not smart, which is wild because Strat is such a smarty pants in most ways. Um, I guess we didn't get a ton of well, that's not true. We did get an extreme conversation with Strat in this segment. So I think given the explosion, we should just get into it, right? Strat laid down the line with Grace, and it was giving him the choice about being the science officer, or not science officer, being the scientist on the mission. And Grace said no. He said no, and he said no again. He doubled down and he used the kids as his excuse, which to me was the dumbest thing to say ever. It's like save the kids' lives or bolster them for the hard times to come. It was BS. His excuse was BS. Garrett, how did how did his excuse like I sorry, I'm I'm I hope don't be influenced by my opinions here. But when it happened, I was like, F you, Grace, you're a coward, like the world is depending on you, and you're P wording out. So, Garrett, go ahead. How did you feel about it? Do you disagree with my take?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, no, as a character, I think that's the point. Like, he is he is not a brave person. Like, he does not see himself as a brave person, and he did not like live his life in some sort of valiant, I'm gonna save the world way. And so, in that way, I think it was very interesting, like from a narrative perspective. Um, it was a nice twist because you know, the boring, obvious answer would have been like he volunteered and stood up and marched onto the ship and went out there and saved the universe type of thing. But um, no, he didn't. He didn't want to be there, and he had to be there anyways and figure it out. Um and I think also having to have that like him having to have that realization much later in this whole process is also really interesting, right? Because it's like, you know, he woke up on the ship just trying to figure everything out, and then he realizes like, you know, at the 11th hour that he didn't even want to be here, and you know, psychologically that's gotta be pretty rough on a person. But um, yeah, no, as a character, yeah. I mean, he's he's kind of a coward, right? Like at the at the start, like that's that's just how it is, but that's also why he's interesting, I think, in a lot of ways, and why the decisions that he makes at the end are even more interesting.
SPEAKER_03:And consequently, yeah, I mean, I I liked it, and I like the fact that you know he took the time to write out, and and she was right, which made him even angrier, which uh you know what I mean? Like salt in the wound, absolutely, um, because she was right. I am gonna ultimately just go through with it. Which as much as I I honestly didn't have a problem with him being a coward, um it didn't it didn't surprise me and it didn't I mean it disappointed me, don't get me wrong, it disappointed me, but it's not like I got really, really mad. Um because kind of like what you were saying, Garrett, like not everybody is astronaut material, not everybody is hero material. Um, and he has never perceived himself that way. The thing that was upsetting for me about that was Strapp calling him out, right? Like you play it safe. I knew that you wouldn't rise to the occasion because you're a coward. Uh so that part of it was was rough. Um, and then his ultimate realization that, and above and beyond that, she was right. Because obviously I'm gonna do the right thing now that I have no choice.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So having talked about that conversation, we talked a lot about Strat in the last episode and how we felt about her. And without giving you any hint about how we feel about her, Garrett, how do you feel about Strat?
SPEAKER_00:Uh gosh. I mean, she in a way is kind of like a common archetype, I feel like, in stories like this. Um, Jessica, you said you're doing uh Stargate, right? Like, like she's General Hammond from Stargate. You know, like the person who's like, uh, I love my team, but my my purpose is to defend the earth and do what's right for humanity. I'm gonna do that no matter what, and no matter the cost, you know, whatever. So, like, from that perspective, um, I think that was just kind of her role, right? Like, you can look at the decisions she made and be like, oh yeah, they're kind of morally dubious and definitely uh cross some lines there, but like you know in the back of your head that it's like at the end of the day, like these are people technically like under her command, um, and she's going to do whatever she needs to do to get the job done. And that's sort of respectable in a way, I guess, when you know, like all of existence depends on it. Sort of respectable.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. I don't know if this changed for you, Jessica, but last episode we was we had a resounding agreement that she deserved mad respect. We love Strat. She is a boss lady, and she gets it done. And yeah, and regardless of what the consequences would be for her after the fact, right? She acknowledges she's probably gonna go to prison for exceeding all of her authority, but she's like, I don't care, because it's gonna get the job done, which I mean, love, love, love. Jessica, did that change for you? This this read?
SPEAKER_03:No, it the respect for it didn't change my perspective of of how I was viewing it at the beginning, because if you think about it, so in that moment, right, when I know that she put him on that boat against his wishes, um, that that was essentially a hostage situation, um she had collected all of these people along the way. And the astronauts are the only ones who actually volunteered. Everybody else was drafted. So she had been, she had been commandeering people as resources all along the way. And I had kind of glazed over it through the first half of the book and was sitting there singing her praises for how she cut through all the red tape and the world is her asset pool, and she's, you know, whatever it takes, wherever we have to get it from. Um, not damn the consequences, but you know, I'll go to jail afterwards, kind of thing. Um and so it was more that it made me reflective that I had just uh applauded that so loudly through the first half of the book. And it wasn't until I knew that she put him on that ship against his will that I went, ooh, that's got a little bit of ick on it. But I'm gonna stick, I'm gonna stick with her. I'm gonna stick with her because I meant everything I said in episode one, right? Like I really I do love um a bee who gets it done. So I'm not going back on that. I just realized that I kind of glazed over quite a bit of that in the first half.
SPEAKER_02:So the way you just kind of phrased that made me think that this was essentially an extremely large-scale trolley problem, right? Uh it would be out. So the train is headed towards the earth. Billions of people are going to die. Strat had the option to pull the lever, to reroute the train, to take out only Grace. And that's what she did. So I don't know. How do you feel about that, Gary? Do you dislike that?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, the major difference is that the lever that they're pulling is like can very conditional, right? Like, it's not the train is definitely gonna miss Earth. It's like this whole mission could have just it was a literal hail hail marry, right? Like could have failed in a billion ways and probably had a very low, to be honest, chance of success. Like that, at least everybody going into it probably understood that to be the case, right? Like, I'm sure humanity was working on other options, we didn't hear about them necessarily, but working on other options as well. So that makes it a little different. Like it's it's not as cut and dry, like it's one of those situations where like the person is is absolutely going to be judged by the outcome. If the outcome had been bad, all of those things would have looked bad.
SPEAKER_03:But the outcome But to her point, yeah, humanity is doomed.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_03:She was she was literally just trying to give humanity its best chance. And once she got to a place where Ryland was the best option, it no longer mattered if Ryland agreed.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that's why I say it's like it's sort of respectable, right? I have to throw the sort of in there because I can't just be like, ah, yeah, you know, crossing all the moral lines is totally fine.
SPEAKER_03:Consent matters. Consent does matter.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You're 100% right. It is, it get it adds a little. But it not it not only adds an ugh in Strath column, it adds a major in Grace's column for me. I'm sorry. He drives me after that. After finding that out, I was just like, I had the I had such an ick. And this is gonna come up again in our MVP discussion. But like, such an ick after that that I could it, it was, it's like reading this book for a second time is actually interesting because when you go into it the first time, you don't know the context. When you go into it the second time, you know from the gate that this man said no to this mission, despite knowing everything about how effed humanity was. And and yeah, the whole time I'm just like, oh, I don't, you know, I liked I liked him a little less the whole time because of that. Um so, anyways, yeah, I guess I've got a lot of great, I feel bad. I'm a Grace hater in some ways, just based on that. But like, I guess if you were given that, if you were him, what what would you do?
SPEAKER_03:I I mean I'd like to think that I would do the noble thing, but I know I'd be scared.
SPEAKER_01:Out of your mind. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:There's no way you're not scared. And I I know I've read it before, I'm sure it's a trope that like we all think we're gonna do the heroic thing, and we don't actually know until the rubber hits the road.
SPEAKER_01:That's fair. What would you do, Gary? What do you think you would do?
SPEAKER_00:What I would do. What do you think you would do as Grace? Jeez. That's tough. Um it's uh yeah. I I don't think I would have readily volunteered, for sure. Mostly because I I mean it's hard it's hard to to to like pull apart the fiction from reality, right? If this were reality, there's like no way that mission went anywhere, right? Like it's like the thing blows up, you know, halfway to Oh man, I can't. Tal Seti. I was like, yeah, Seti something, but Tao Seti. Um so it's kind of like a choice between like, do you spend, you know, the last days of humanity with your family, you know, making the best of it, or do you just like jet off into space and probably like 99% chance explode for no reason? That's a tough one. Um I understand why he made the decision that he made. Um and and why sometimes being a coward is not like the worst thing, right? Like it might for that individual be a rational decision, right? I mean, there's like conscience conscientious objectors in war, right? That make that decision based on their own situation, even when you know it's against terrible evils or whatever. You know, stuff like that pops up where it's like, hey, sometimes not fighting might be the right option for you. But uh yeah, I don't know. It's tough. It's tough. I if if it was like, oh, there's a hundred percent chance this is gonna work, and we just need you to like go do it and probably die, be like, oh okay, well, that's different, but that's not a really hard time believing in a world where I am the person to be in the chair, like I am humanity's best option.
SPEAKER_03:Like, there's no way that's true.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that that's what I was saying. It's a hard, it's hard to divorce that right from reality. It's like nobody's coming to me and be like, you're the one.
SPEAKER_03:At least you know what physics is.
SPEAKER_00:Gonna work, trust me.
SPEAKER_02:I think I'd like to think. No, I'm with you that I wouldn't volunteer if it was like, you know, okay, it's time to pick the science people, number one and two. I wouldn't be like, put me at number one, guys. But like if it ended up that both science officers were dead and I had been training for years doing the same amount of stuff that they had been doing, and I was the only logical choice, and I was humanity's only chance. At that point, it's like, well, yeah, I guess I'm have to. Like, I hate it, it sucks that I'm gonna die, but like there's no one else. Like, if I, you know, if what if I don't do it, then I buy myself a couple of decades and the world dies. Like, that just feels really selfish. I don't like, I don't know. And like, I I am someone who my whole life has been terrified of the concept of death, like very acutely aware of it, you know what I mean? And even I I even think that I would be like, well, yeah, I guess I have to now. I mean, it sucks and I'm scared, but what are you gonna do? You know? And if you really did care about his students, he would do it. Yeah, he used them as an excuse. And he was such a little whiner after the fact. Sorry, he just the way he handled it was like the yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's uh yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it's I think it's pretty clear in the book that it was intended for him to appear that way, right? Like that he made a a panicked kind of like cowardly decision, right? And that, you know, out of fear. And again, like that's I'm not gonna judge anybody for that because until you're in the hot seat, you don't know what you're gonna do. I don't know. But uh yeah, I think it's tough. It's it's you know, it's so hard to put yourself in that situation because again, I go back to like, I don't know, the reality of the situation is just like uh so many. I refuse to believe in some situation where like this is literally the only thing that we can possibly do, and the project itself is called Hail Mary because nobody literally believes this is gonna work.
SPEAKER_02:Like, yeah, tell you what, that's such a hard thing. Uh think about like being the captain on that mission where it's like, yeah, your only qualifications are that you can fly a ship. Like, there's probably way more people that could be that person than could be the science officer, and so it's like, you know, those people are truly brave, like the captain, you know, because they didn't, you know, they uh yeah, good for them, anyways, except for the guy rip. Um so I think I took that that scene, that revelation, I think, for me, and I'm trying to remember if there was anything else, but that to me was the biggest twist. I think that had the most emotional impact, perhaps, for me. It like got the biggest reaction out of me. Granted, like the relationship between Rocky and Grace, I thought was so heartwarming, and I like absolutely fell in love with them as friends, but that wasn't that was just like this slowly building thing that you know was just really heartwarming and kind of underlaid was underlying the whole book. The thing that Grace did to me was like the oh my god, like that was the biggest emotional reaction for me. So, like, what I guess were your all's OMG moments or like your favorite, I guess, parts of the book. Granted, like it's my favorite because I hated it so much, but like, did you have any big emotional feelings? Did you have any big feelings about this?
SPEAKER_03:I I really even though I you know to your and Garrett's point, like there is there's a rhythm to books, right? Like it's not likely that so and so is dead yet because we still have this much book left. Sure. Even with that though, when they reunited and and I was listening to the audio when when Rocky hears Grace knocking on the hall, um I cried. Like I got so happy I cried. Um and that's not usually a thing I have, but it and again, even though it's a relatively expected beat, I still was just so jazzed at their reunion. And part of that was because I was proud of Grace for um picking his friend, you know what I mean? I was proud of him because I thought that that was a braver choice. So there was a lot of I um a lot of that it was I was excited for him in from a redemption perspective, but then just the just the sheer bliss of his friend found him and is gonna save him. And the way that the narrator did it, like I swear I could hear the hope in Rocky's voice when uh when he realizes that Grace is back.
SPEAKER_02:His voice was like cracking. Oh my gosh, no, the narrator choked me up.
SPEAKER_03:Me too.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, you're right. I forgot I kind of forgot about that moment, but the narrator really sold that for me. Garrett, yeah. What were your what were your big moments?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I the reuniting was a big one. Um I think like weirdly, the just like they parted, you know, and like he would go back and check the console and be like, I can still see, you know, I can still see, but then like finally he couldn't, right? And it was like, oh, that was that was kind of sad. Um but honestly, that whole like I'm just saying like final scene, but kind of like the final sequence of the story, right? Where it's like a part and um the moment that he has that revelation, then he's like, oh my gosh, like this, you know, this is gonna be a problem for him. And it's like the panic and having to like go back, and then like you said, the reuniting. That whole sequence I feel like happened really fast, or maybe it just seemed like it happened really fast because there's so much going on. Um, so I feel like that whole sequence was like probably the for me the most impactful part of the whole story, for sure. That's fair.
SPEAKER_02:That was the my like ah moments kind of set up the rest of the like oh great finally doing something like selfless, you know, like good for him. Like that was a nice arc for sure. Yeah, but yeah, and then whenever Rocky was like, Grace, like I can't even I can't even do I can't I'm not gonna try to do it, but like the his voice cracking and being so happy, and then just the realization that like he's gonna be able to save his planet, and Grace also kind of saved the earth, but wasn't gonna be able to see it, all of that was great. And then the fact that Grace got to be a teacher again, like I loved the reveal that he was teaching all these little space metal spiders how to like you know, I don't know, do all kinds of things teaching him science. Um, I thought that was really cute. But I don't know, yeah. The resolution was very heartwarming for me for sure. In the end, I was much more satisfied with Grace than I was, you know, 80% of the way through for after the big reveal. Um so Garrett, you're kind of a cynic sometimes. Did you like the happy ending?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I like happy endings.
SPEAKER_03:I don't like getting thrown out by your wife on the podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Um no, I thought it I thought it was great. I think like one of the best things about his books is there's kind of this like um optimism in like the application of like rationality and intention and science and all this type of stuff to solving these problems. I think when I was you know very young and growing up, I feel like that was the general attitude that like I was at least like educated in. It's what like attracted me to like science, math, technology, and stuff like that was this general optimism that like the world is gonna be a better place.
SPEAKER_03:Make the world a better place.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and like we can solve these problems because we can rationalize our way through it, we can learn based on you know our experiments and and you know continue to advance, etc. etc. And I feel like that has definitely uh not been a thing in modern culture right now. So it's like kind of intra it it feels almost good kind of to go back to that to be like, you know, we're back in this place where like we do feel like we can solve problems and you know we can we can get through this. And so I think it's a good thing that they're that way, right? To me, for me personally, I enjoy that, versus the sort of like in our culture today, the easy ending would have been just kind of a bad one. Like, actually, now it all sucks and they're all dead, so you know, like that's Project Hail Mary failed, yeah. But it failed like everything else, so we're we're done. But like uh, so I appreciate that. I think it would have been far worse if it had been a sort of like negative ending, honestly. In any way, I think it's much better that it's positive.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, yeah, I would have thought there'd be like a heartwarming f tale of friendship between a human and a metal space monster, like also Rocky like acknowledging that he's like a scary spy space monster at one point in the book was kind of hilarious. Like, I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_00:I was gonna say to Rocky, he's just a fun space person, so I think it's true.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, it's there's just like one like sequence of dialogue where Grace was feeling salty, and he's like, you know, we have these creatures on earth, they're called spiders, and everyone thinks they're super scary, and he's like, Oh no, I'm a scary space monster, and then they move on. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The banter is top notch. So the banter is the best.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. So happy ending, yay, Jessica. I assume.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, oh heck yeah. Oh yeah. I didn't, I couldn't have asked for better. Uh the idea of him teaching little Iridians um that they made an enclosure, that they made uh, you know, a climate-controlled area so that he could live amongst them. Yeah, it was all perfect for me. And the fact that you know it the the soul's late luminance is is redeemed and and they do leave him the option to potentially reboard the Hail Mary and go home if he so wishes.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think he will?
SPEAKER_03:I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Both both on team, no.
SPEAKER_03:No. No, just he has a really good fulfilling life there, even just based on the brief denouement, right? And um what his body has been through, and to try and go through what it would take to make the return track for what? Like I felt satisfied by the ending that he had a fulfilling existence there. So I wouldn't rock the boat if it were me. I'd be like, no, I'm good right here.
SPEAKER_02:Huh. I don't know. I think I might go back just because it's like eventually, you know. Did it work? Did was it was the earth irredeemable? Like, did they get into too many wars? Like, if I returned, I mean the scary thing would be, yeah, like if I returned and everything's hell, then I made a huge mistake. But otherwise, like I, you know, you'd return a hero, which is very selfish to be like, yeah, I'm gonna travel uh to years that would be.
SPEAKER_03:Like so, yeah, not to be too dystopian, but like Iridians are nice, the culture is there, and he's got a fulfilling existence.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so the draw to do something that is very physically arduous to go back to experience humanity being humanity is really a mixed spag.
SPEAKER_02:You're not wrong. It's a good point that yeah needs to be made. Oh, I I said the there's I've talked about several heartwarming things. Another heartwarming thing that I wrote down that I forgot to mention was that they named the planet Adrian after Rocky's mate. I thought that was so cute. I like that a lot. Yeah. So, Garrett, why haven't you named a planet after me?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I haven't gotten naming rights to a planet yet. I'm working on it. Valentine's.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, they let you name stars.
SPEAKER_00:I do know that.
SPEAKER_02:They do let you name stars. Yes, I did know that. That feels like such a like how many, how many people have named that star? You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Oh is this is this verifiable? Like, I'm not sure if that's verifiable.
SPEAKER_03:I know there's a website, so it must be true.
SPEAKER_00:So true. I should start one of those up. That would be that would be a good business model.
SPEAKER_02:Business model, yeah. Okay, so um, you know, we've talked for a while. Are there any moments from the book that we need to talk about before we get into our MVP moments?
SPEAKER_03:Mine were just little tidbits. So um, why is your face leaking? Um just priceless. Um uh when Ryland was on painkillers and uh have you slept your dumb question? You know, like that whole I'm paraphrasing badly, but you know, him being like, We've, you know, once Ryland explained to him that if I don't sleep, I get stupid. And then Rocky very literally going, You stupid, when you sleep last question.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, no, Rocky's my favorite character. Well, spoilers, uh I love Rocky. I love Rocky, absolutely adore Rocky. Uh, can't wait to see him portrayed in the movie. I hope he doesn't.
SPEAKER_03:I cannot wait to see the movie. I can't wait.
SPEAKER_02:I'm really excited. It's gonna be one of those in-theater situations. Can't wait till that one goes to streaming for sure. Um, okay, any other moments before we get into our MVP?
SPEAKER_03:No, I feel like those are my faves. We touched on a lot of my good my faves.
SPEAKER_02:The big ones. All right, so uh in every episode of But Are There Dragons, we pick an MVP and a runner-up MVP from the read. And because this is our last episode of Project Hail Mary, we will do the tallying and determine who the ultimate MVP of Project Hail Mary is, according to But Are Their Dragons, therefore the definitive MVP of Butt Are Their Dragons of Project Hail Mary. So, without further ado, Jessica, who is your runner-up MVP from this read.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, my runner-up.
SPEAKER_02:I just got really conflicted. You can do it. Don't be influenced.
SPEAKER_03:My runner-up is Rocky.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03:Because I mean, he needs no def he needs no defense as a contender. Um so I I will leave it at that and I'll explain my MVP instead.
SPEAKER_02:That's fair. Okay. Um, Garrett, who is your runner-up MVP? It's also Rocky.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Tough vote. It's gonna be a tough vote.
SPEAKER_02:Well, my runner-up is great because I can't get over the ick. And I know, and I know, and I know that he had the big redemption and that he sacrificed not his life, but he sacrificed his interprosted earth to save Rocky, which was incredibly noble, which is why it's not strat. But I'll just go right into my MVP. You guys know who it is. It's freaking Rocky, favorite character, absolutely hilarious, um, solved all the problems that they had, um, you know, saved Grace's life, like thought he was sacrificing his own life by doing so. He is just a delight. And he's an alien shaped like a spider. So, like, never in my life would I be like, that's the one. You know, that's my guy. But that's that is that is my guy. That's also my guy. But yeah, no, it's Rocky for me. 10 out of 10. He's a great character. Save. Okay. Let's go back. Garrett. Garrett, put your MVP. Great. Okay. Explain yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Um, I mean, it's pretty straightforward. I think that he had a lot. He most of the decisions that would have like put somebody in a bad situation were the decisions that like he had to make, right? Like Strat obviously long ago on Earth made these sort of managerial decisions um to you know, do what she did with like the little pawn pieces that she had. It's hard, it's hard for me to like super relate to that versus like, you know, Grace is he's doing the work. He's up there, you know, he's doing the work, he's doing whatever he can, he's trying to figure it out. Um, and at the end, like you said, he kind of makes he makes those sacrifices, right? Like, not that any of the other kids, like Rocky would have probably done the same type of thing, right? Like he probably would have done the same type of thing, but Grace was the one who was put in the situation and had to do it, right? And he did it. Despite the fact that he probably was very afraid, and I think that's why it's so important that he had that scene originally that shows that he's not a brave person, right? Like he's not like an inherently sort of this like paragon-esque personality where he's like, I'm gonna do the right thing no matter what. No, he's just like he's a normal, everyday human who does not want to die, but he did, you know, he did the thing. Um, and he did it not for honestly, because like Earth was already done, right? Like Earth was saved. He did this for like a species that he had only ever met one entity from before, right? Like, I mean, he knows only what rock. He has even told him about this species. I think there's a lot of humans who would have been like, nah, I'll just go home, you know, right? Like at the end of the day. But he was like, no, I can't, you know, this is a whole sentient species. You can't just do this, right? Like, I've got to do the right thing. So that I think is huge, right? Like it's it's a big deal. Again, not saying Rocky would not have done that. He just wasn't in the situation to make that choice. So okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Jessica.
SPEAKER_03:Well, um it's gonna be the Beatle. No, uh, it's it's Grace. It's it's Grace. And I made Garrett go in front of me just because, you know, it was just easier to torture him and so forth. I love a good redemption art, and I did feel that the writer did a good job giving Grace a good redemption art that I could believe in. Um, I echo wholeheartedly a lot of what Garrett just said. He did a thing that was inherently selfless, to he found a way to solve the problem of helping his people back home and helping an alien species that otherwise would be doomed, right? Like he knew at that moment that Rocky was dead in the water with his mission to save Arid. So um, and I also felt like so the redemption arc was huge, but also again, kind of piggybacking off what Garrett said, that um all that problem solving, you know, man plans and God laughs, all of those plans that were laid out, all that information that was put out in front of them, so many things that had to be solved, and and he and Rocky solved them. Things that never could have been foreseen that they had to work their way through. Um so for those reasons, I just let him squeak ahead of Rocky and take the MVP.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that's fair. There were there was the whole sequence where Grace was just like slowly but surely breeding the um tao meebas, which is the dumbest name there could possibly be. But anyways, he's breeding, he was the one that was like breeding um the whatever resistant, nitrogen resistant tao meebas. Um and Rocky was like, Are you done? What's going on? Like he Rocky couldn't really do anything other than provide him all the materials, right? So like they were both absolutely crucial to the success of their both of their missions. Um, but Grace did do a lot of the science stuff. So, you know, I'm not saying he's bad. Obviously, he's great. I gave him my runner-up, but like, you know, sometimes you get a nick and you can't really shake it completely.
SPEAKER_03:And that's what happens. It's real, it's absolutely real.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I kind of like that uh dynamic though between them a lot throughout the book because as somebody who was kind of like educated in the sciences but eventually went to work more on the engineering side, it's fun to see that the two sides, right? And like how they think about things differently. And I thought he did a really good job in the book of fleshing that out with the two characters, right? Like yeah, that just what you said, right? Like Rocky's super impatient because I mean he's an engineer, his entire like ethos is do stuff and break things, right? Like that's that's all you do all day. And um, you know, on the flip side, he doesn't have the patience for the like rigorous scientific, you know, uh hypothesis forming and analysis and experimentation where it's just like I have to do this thing a thousand times.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, he's got so much in the execution realm, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like exactly.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that the writing did a really good job as somebody who is not who has doesn't have either of those skill sets, that dynamic came through in the read. So I really dug that.
SPEAKER_00:It's really cool. Yeah, it's that's to me. That was like one of the coolest parts of reading the entire book, was just like seeing those two things, I think, executed really well because you get you it's a mindset, right? I mean, like any trade or profession or whatever that you get into, like it just has this like mindset that you're indoctrinated into, and you could like really see what you know, at least what I see a lot of times in in my career and work, just the difference between those two mindsets coming together and having to like deal with each other, and it's really funny.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay, yeah, I love that. Alrighty, feel good about uh Project Hale Mary, nailed it. Um, and I guess as is the nature of our podcast, we have to officially confirm that there were indeed no dragons.
SPEAKER_03:No dragons in Project Mary. And yeah, it was my first five-star book of the year. So okay. I'm not I'm not willy-nilly with my five stars, but it was it was a heck of a ride. I really liked this book.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Same. Well, I'm glad that we read it then. I'm glad we read it in advance of the movie coming out. I think we it was perfect timing, and uh let's segue straight into our next read, which we have already chosen.
SPEAKER_03:Time out. Do we we need to do the scoring?
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, yeah. Sorry. What's known? You're right. We have to pick the official MVP.
SPEAKER_03:Because I never do the math, Garrett. Your wife.
SPEAKER_02:I always do the math, so I'm always like, let's freaking do it, guys. Um, yeah, I'm always thinking about the math, which is ironic.
SPEAKER_03:We have in fact had like three-way ties before. We only have a two-way tie this time. Tie per second is strat and grace. Yes. Which means that our winner is Rocky.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I promise I didn't rig this, but I kind of rigged it a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:I checked the math three times.
SPEAKER_02:Uh Rocky was my MVP last time, and that made the difference. I'm sorry. I'm not actually sorry, but no, I love Rocky so much. I pick him, I picked him last time because he was my favorite character in the last read. I picked him this time because he's my favorite character.
SPEAKER_03:And he did even more tinkering, like he did even more like crafting and things like it was it was close for me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, okay, so all right, Rocky number one, Strat and Grace number two. Cool, I think that makes sense. That works because Strat is a an effective woman, and I appreciate that about her. Um, okay, so thank you for that. Our next read is everywhere. Everyone I know is reading this or has already read it, and no one I've talked to does not like this book. Um, I have not read it. Jessica has read it. We will be reading Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinaman. Garrett, you have started that, right? You haven't finished it though, correct? Yeah. I have not finished it. I swear everyone, everyone is either reading it, has recently read it. Like the hype is so real for this book that I am very excited to dive in. Um, very, very excited. So read part one, because it's broken into two parts incredibly conveniently for an episode drop on February 17th. So we're gonna go a little post-Valentine's episode uh this this next go-around. There's gonna be a little bit of a gap, but get hyped, read the book, and come along for the ride.
SPEAKER_03:And that being said, and I'll do just a little plug that this book is so incredible on audio. So if you are have access to it in its audio form, I highly, highly recommend. I know Critter's gonna do that anyway because that's her jam.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Um, this book got me completely hooked on having a really good narrator. Um, and I think that book one, if we will see how we do after book one, but if she continues on, if we continue on afterwards, the audio just gets better. Like book one, the narrator is getting his legs under him. I feel like the audio just keeps getting better. But I'm gonna try my hat at being a vet.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Jessica's first experience as a the only vet, because we've done we read. No, yes.
SPEAKER_04:No?
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. Anyways, Jessica's vet this time, which is very, very exciting. So thank you so much for tuning in to our second episode of season six of But Are There Dragons, brought to you by your hosts, me, CritterXD, and Jessica Sai. Um, and also our very special guest, Mr. Critter Garrett himself. Thank you so much, Garrett, for coming on. This is an absolute pleasure. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Um, don't forget to follow us at ButtArthere Dragons on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and ButtDragons on Just1T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media as CritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That is it for today. Catch you in the inhabitable zone of air. Bye.
SPEAKER_04:Bye.
