Season 7 Episode 2: Dungeon Crawler Carl Book 1 Part 2!

Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read, and talk about it. For our seventh season, we're reading Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman! This episode covers part 2, with Jessica as the vet and Kritter as the first timer, and special guest Becky, who has read all of the DCC books, and is also the author of The Unofficial Guide to Disney World!

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Hi, and welcome to What Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them hasn't read and talk about it. I'm your host, Critter, and I'm your host Jess. And welcome to episode two of season seven, where we talk about the second half of book one of Dungeon Crawler Carl. And we have another fabulous guest with us tonight. So we would like to welcome Becky.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

Becky! Yay! Thank you for having me. So excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you for coming along. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

So Becky has read all of Dungeon Crawler Carl, the series.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

All. I devoured these books. I started book one on January 3rd. I remember because book one also starts on January 3rd, and I thought that was really cool. And I crushed through all of the existing books before the end of January. Like, just done. Couldn't stop. Okay. All life went on hold while I read Dungeon Crawler.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Well, and these are highly devourable.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

They are.

Season Focus: Dungeon Crawler Carl

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Highly devourable. Okay. That's uh that's good to hear, you know, since I am the noob in this equation. So uh the fact that everyone around me seems to be devouring them happily makes me happy because I think uh I think we're gonna have a good time on this year podcast reading these books.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

But first, we are gonna do a special edition of But Are There Updates, and in honor of our guest, Becky, we are gonna be doing this Disney style. Uh so it's uh however Disney plays into it, and I'm gonna let Critter kick us off.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Sure. So the reason we're doing it Disney style today is because Becky is an author, like an auteur, a uh sh sh and a massive, massive Disney fan. Probably those things kind of went hand in hand, right? So, Becky, why don't you kind of explain to us what it is that you do Disney related, and then we'll dive into the Disney chat.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

Yes, so in my ample free time, which is a total joke because I work a very busy job and have two children, I either read Dungeon Crawl of Carl or I visit Disney World by myself and write a book about it. So in my real life, I am a data person. I do that in my job. My career has become very meeting heavy though. So I get my data fix by doing algorithms about Disney World. So I pull all of the different wait times from all the attractions and I run algorithms that help people uh decide when they should visit certain attractions, etc., when the least crowded times of year are. And I used all of this to start being the author of the unofficial guide to Walt Disney World, uh, which has been around since before I was born. So I can't claim credit for all of them. Uh, but the last two editions have been all me, and I'm working on finalizing the third one. So if you're watching on video, this is the book. It's lovely. It's a whole textbook, 600 pages that I get to write every year. So uh wish me luck as I finalize 2027 here in the next month, which is wild. Writing is hard, y'all. That is thick.

Meet Becky: Disney Data Expert

SPEAKER_02 3:31

That is a thick book. So Becky is a Disney expert. Jessica and I, not so much. I consider myself a Disney. I I don't know if I'm like a Disney adult, but like I watched the classic Disney films growing up, and the first time that I ever went to a Disney location was Disney World two years ago. I've been there one single time, and I was pregnant. So I didn't get to ride almost any rides. Um, so you know the experience was something. Also, also, Mr. Critter got sick before we got to go to Hollywood Studios. So the day that I was most looking forward to, the day that we had stuff booked at the Star Wars locations, we were gonna build a lightsaber. None of that happened. Um so, anyways, it was a mixed pack. I definitely want to go back now that uh redo. Now that the baby dragon is in the picture, um, but it was fun. I'd say my favorite day was Universal, because that was the first day, and obviously that's not Disney, and Epcot, because that was before anybody got sick. The weather was perfect, it was just really fun. And I got to ride a couple of the rides there because they were pregnancy friendly. Um, anyways, yeah, and so Jessica, what's your recent experience with Disney?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

So I also uh I don't necessarily identify as a Disney adult, but I also grew up on the Disney movies. I was we were that family that we were the first family on the block to have Disney Channel when it came out, you know, because I'm that old. Um and uh so I am. I'm a big Disney fan. My my kid inherited all my white puffy plastic Disney VHSs from me. Yes, we were that family. Um so I have not yet been to the park. My first and only Disney experience is we took a Disney cruise to the Mediterranean for our honeymoon. And it was, in fact, magical and beautiful. And um, I do recommend that if somebody wants um a taste of that uh time gone by elegance, um with some with some Disney theming, and sometimes it's really subtle, and other times it's character meet and greet happening right next to you. Um, as somebody who went without littles, uh, I saw a lot of little princes and princesses getting very happy, and it was, you know, it filled my cup.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

So yeah, it was pretty fantastic. It's not for everyone, and I can see that how somebody might want to go uh on a different cruise if they weren't bringing kids or wanted to take a break from kids. There are adult spaces, but it was just so beautiful and so elegant, and it was so perfect for our honeymoon because it was so beautiful. Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Okay, so Becky, us Disney experience noobs. Um, what would you say to people like us who are not the like data analytics in the people who haven't read your book? What would be like your top one or two tips whenever somebody's getting into like going to a Disney place?

Disney Algorithms And The Unofficial Guide

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Yes, so cruises are the way to go if vacation planning stresses you out. Because all you do is you buy the cruise and you go on it, and all your food is there. It's also arguably the better experience if you have really, really little kids, uh, because your room is always steps away, and food is always steps away, and you don't have to worry about getting back to your hotel for naps. Uh, we took my youngest daughter on her first Disney cruise when she was 13 months old. She learned to walk on the ship. So there will always be a place in my heart for Disney cruising with very small humans. Uh, but if you're going to Walt Disney World, clearly I do that all the time. That's what the book is about. Two major tips go when schools are in session. Yay! Because most people that visit Disney World have kids and don't like taking them out of school. So September is actually the best time to visit Disney World, like that one week after Labor Day. Most people don't want to take their kids out of school then, and that's when tickets are cheapest, and that's when hotels are cheapest. It's a little hot, it's a little rainy, but if you can handle that, that is the least crowded and cheapest time that you will ever get to visit Disney World. So that's my number one tip by far. Go in September. You'll enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Note it. Okay, I love that. September. We went in February, and I think that was part of the issue that Mr. Critter got so, so sick because that's like at the tail end of the sixth season, you know? So that was uh I wouldn't recommend February. It was also pretty rainy, so not my favorite time of the year. Uh okay. So, what is what are what are our all favorite Disney characters? We're talking Disney, you know, Jessica and I are classic Disney. Um, Becky's familiar with all Disney, so all of it. Uh I did warn Becky this question was coming, so why don't you go first?

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Easy, easy for me to do. I love Mary Poppins. Mary Poppins is my favorite Disney movie, she's my favorite Disney character. She doesn't meet in the parks that often, so I had to be on the hunt for her for quite a while. But I've got a lot of Mary Poppins gear hidden around this house in various places. Mary Poppins love her.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

That is so interesting. That's like, you know, hashtag unpopular opinion. Not that she's like bad or whatever. So did you like the um Emily Blunt version? No.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

And I wanted to, but it's just not this like like it's got Lynn Minwell Miranda. Like, can't I wanted to love it, but it doesn't have the same magic as Julie Andrews and Van Dyke.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

That's totally fair.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Oh geez. Yep, can't believe it.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

Okay, Jessica, favorite Disney characters.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I I don't know. I panicked because even hearing Becky describe hers, I was like, I I don't know how to pick one. Um so I oh god. I think I think my favorite cartoon is still like the sword and the stone. So some of those older, deeper cuts. Sword and the stone and Robin Hood are probably tied for my favorite. I love Robin Hood. Robin Hood, yeah. I think I think Little John from Robin Hood is still like one of my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

You want to talk about a green flag, like this guy is just the best.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Robin Hood and Little John locked the forest.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

It was in fact a ringtone of mine at one point.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yes. Spectacular. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Back when we paid money for ringtones, yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So that's high praise. Um, I'd say mine are since I've had some time to think about this, and it actually didn't take me long to think of it at all. I like the funny sidekicks. So I'd say my two faves are probably Genie and Mushu. Like, I just love a like witty sidekick who's also just so happens to be a super funny comedian. So yeah, it's uh those are, and and honestly, Genie holds like an extra special place in my heart now because Robin Williams has passed and he was like such a legend. Um, but yeah, I would say those are probably my favorite. I always I always loved Aladdin. That was like one of my very, very top. Um, I tell you what, an underrated Disney movie is though, I think. Hercules. You don't hear people talking about Hercules, but man, that one slaps. Like the soundtrack. Oh my god, it is so, so good.

Hosts’ Disney Histories And First Impressions

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Um another one that doesn't get enough love, Treasure Planet. Like my kid loved Treasure Planet. Yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Very little fandom for Treasure Planet, and it deserves it.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Like it's a it's a good movie.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

So Disney Chat achieved. Anybody, any final thoughts about Disney before we move on to DCC?

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Hey, you can be a Disney fan and you can be a fan of other things too. So on to Dungeons.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

On to DCC. Let's do it. Okay. Jessica, take the reins.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Okay. So on to DCC. So, Becky, I usually like to start with a little debrief about where we start. So you did share that you started this in January and you managed to blow through all the books in a month, which is super impressive. We both are strong readers, so we both can respect the hustle. Um how did you how long ago was that, if you recall, when you first read the books?

SPEAKER_04 11:42

Uh so less than two months ago.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

That was this year. That's amazing. So I have been saying to Critter, like, DCC is definitely gaining attraction, traction in my uh social media feed. Like I'm seeing it everywhere. Uh and I'm not mad about it because I had a lot of fun with it. Um, so that's cool. I also, I my Mr. Jessica has kind of been pestering me to read this for a little bit. So I started it last year, and you know, I'm only about six months ahead of when Critter got on board, so it's not a big deal. Um so the only other question I had is we got your credentials. Um the other two questions that I'd like to ask is how did you hear about the series? And um, how do you do what do you do? Are you an audiobook girly? Are you a physical? Are you a Kindle?

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Yeah. So interesting storyline here. How did I hear about it? I'm not even really sure. Just like the ether, it's been getting more popular. Uh so I am generally a physical book girly. Um, for those that can see video, we're in my office. Oh, I do love a good shelf. There, there's we've got a great many bookshelves in here. So I'm normally a physical book girly. I have listened to one audiobook ever. I know you're both audiobook people. Um me especially.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Jessica. I'm kind of new to the party. Yeah.

Tips: Best Times And Ways To Do Disney

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Okay. So the only audiobook I've ever listened to was Project Hail Mary, which is I read as a physical book first, and then did the audiobook because you should. Uh and it was good as an audiobook. Then I got a Kindle for Christmas, and uh Dungeon Crawler Carl was my first Kindle book because all of them are on Kindle Unlimited, which comes for a couple months for free when you buy the Kindle. So got them all, read them all quickly. So these were my first Kindle books. There you go. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

So I will there's I mean, I'm all for a free download, right? I will say uh the audiobook uh experience has spoiled me. So it's um it is something that I tend to gush about. Uh it is the reason why I went for audiobook with Project Hill Mary. Um so if you get an opportunity to check it out, I would. I think that it's worth it.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

I can I can see how it would be a good audiobook. So we'll give it a try.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Okay, great. So we left off. We were lucky enough to do this as part one, part two. Part one, we left off, and they were just about to get uh beamed out to their first TV show where they meet Audet. Uh Critter, you were really excited. Yes. Was it all you hoped it would be when they finally got to meet Audek?

SPEAKER_02 14:30

I mean, it had such Hunger Games vibes, like so hard. You know, it felt very Caesar Flickerman, you know, if you've read Hunger Games or watched the movies, um, which was so much fun. And seeing Princess Donut just preening about the whole thing was honestly hilarious. Um, I was a big fan of that. The biggest surprise for me was the description of Audette and then the the reveal that, like, no, that's not actually what she looks like. She was a crawler, she's human, and she, you know, lost her legs in the dungeon. Like, all of that being revealed because honestly, when they described her, she's like, she's got this crab body and these giant, you know what? And I was just like, this is grotesque. Like, why did the author make it this way? But I think it was just another statement about the nature of the universe and how things are so I don't know, just manipulated and how the masses are just this blob of people consuming content. I don't know. It was just it was there was a lot of it was it was deeper than just oh my gosh, a crab body with giant, you know what, you know what I mean? Which at first I was like, oh, like there are several things about this book where at first I'm like, uh, is this like problematic? And then the more you get into it, the more you're like, oh no, it's like kind of a commentary. So I thought it was really fun overall. Interesting that they had a conversation after the fact, like where you got you find out that she dealt with Mordecai and that she's you know giving them advice. So I I was definitely satisfied by this segment.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Nice. Yeah, I liked I liked that reveal because, like you, I was going through this where like there are just elements of the fantastic isn't even the right word, like the ridiculous. In we talked about it in the last episode about how the boxes are created or some of the situations, and how it's beyond stylized representation of human foibles or or our shortcomings. And then for her to do that reveal, and I was like, Oh, okay, so we're really leaning into the sensationalization again, also very reminiscent of the Caesar Flickerman moment.

Favorite Disney Characters Roundtable

SPEAKER_04 16:37

So I liked it that it took them out of the game, and now you get to see some of the structure beyond the game, in addition to that. My one quibble uh with this was that supposedly Donut acted different enough that Carl noticed that they had enhanced her in some way. And then Odetta's like, oh yeah, like a couple wisdom points. And I'm like, her stats are so strong. Would he have known like that? Was a little bit extreme for me, but I still very enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

I feel like it was the equivalent, or at least how I took it was like it was the equivalent of giving her a glass of champagne.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

There you go. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Oh, see, I was thinking, okay, but yeah, yeah, oh you know, because she was very on talkative.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

I guess that shows you my read of donut. Like that didn't register.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't notice her different though. Carl did obviously, but like it to me, it was like she's gonna put some something on for the camera.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Like, that's just this is her, yeah, it's her pageant self. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

But I guess it was like even higher, up a little, a few more notches.

Pivot To DCC: Second Half Book One

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, yeah, the pageant persona is a real thing. No, um, so since we started talking about audit show, not to jump around too hard, the comparison between audette show and say Maestro show later in the section is pretty stark, you know, the difference between the two. Um I thought it was great that we started with audette, kind of like gave us a way to dabble our toes in the world at large. Um, and then Maestro show just showing all kinds of the CD underbelly of everything associated with the game that goes on peripheral to the experience that the crawlers have. Um the thing that I do like most about it, and I'm sure it's intentional, um, was that Carl kind of flipped a switch in that moment, right? Where he went from being kind of uh a passive passenger to no, this is not how this is gonna go down. But he's smart about it. He has a conversation with the admin overhead, like, what exactly are we committed to? Do I have to agree with them? Do I have to do what they say? And he uses his brain and works the situation. So in terms of taking a really crappy situation and making the best out of it, I liked it. It showed me some of what Carl does that I love the most about him. Um and he made it about somebody else and he took the power away from the bully. So uh that was a lot of just that's my opinion. How do you ladies feel about comparing those two very, very different talk show experiences for them?

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Yeah, I really I so I reread the second part so it would be fresh while we talked about this. And this show is what I skipped, like I couldn't make myself read it again because it makes I like have a physical reaction to it. I do not like it. Uh it's another commentary. I couldn't put myself through it again. That being said, I was like, no, none of the glurp glurping. I'm not here for it. No, thank you. Um, that being said, I also think uh what I love about Carl in in the Maestro episode is it's like when he's with Meadowlark, he had some time in person to like build some relationship, get to know them, feel connected to them, then have to make the decision to potentially hurt his own game to help them. He's put onto this show with people that he has no connection to, is not anywhere near even, and he still makes the decision, I'm gonna help them. Uh, and I think that really speaks to his character and how that's going to progress. So I really like like in the the seediest of the underbellies, Carl's true character comes out and he's like, Well, forget this, I'm gonna help everyone just to screw all you guys over.

Audette’s Show: Spectacle And Reveal

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Absolutely. I think for me, like I agree with you that that definitely showed us more about Carl's character, which every single time it's in question or like up for debate, he always just wins out and is an amazing guy. So Carl for me has just been an amazing protagonist. Not only that, but the stupid what's his face, red pill guy. I can't remember his name. Um, I never he doesn't deserve for me to remember his name. Um, that guy, the host, uh, he was like, Oh yeah, they all say you're stupid, like, you know, whatever about Carl. And I'm over here like, who's saying Carl's stupid? Carl has made so many brilliant moves down in the dungeon. No one should be calling him stupid. Granted, the game assigned him lower intelligence than than Princess Donut, but time and time again he's proving that that was either just because they couldn't give him amazing stats out of the gate, or because they misread him, or they don't value the kind of intelligence that he has. But Carl is so smart, and in that one, also it that it just it just he just proved himself once again that he was. So uh yeah, I hated it. It was awful. And actually, I just watched Adolescence, the show. It was like a limited series that won a million Emmys very recently, and it w it had like those kind of themes where it's like about a 13-year-old boy, and was he or was he not like red pilled into oblivion, you know, and like all of the anyway. So that was the vibe in that show. And then I reread because I had I reread I read the second part two times because I've read it so quickly the first time. And I needed a refresher. So I read Adolescence in the middle, and then I watched this. I listened to this godforsaken talk show again. And I was just like, oh my God, it's a bunch of 13-year-old boys screaming at him and like loving all this cruelty. And it was just so real. And I hated it. I just hated it. I will never read that part again, ever.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And I think that's probably the part for me. Like, it's it's so skin crawly because we know it hits a little close to home, or at least that was my experience reading it. Like that it is entirely believable that there could be a room full of misguided boys who are following blindly down this path. And it's heartbreaking commentary. Yeah.

unknown 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

So we will move forward from that. I just thought that it was great. And I honestly didn't remember it from my first read-through that we had like a relatively easy TV show experience. And then Maestro was in the same book because I also kind of devoured them so fast and I couldn't remember what happened where. So I liked that. Um how do we feel about how things progressed for the Meadowlark people? Do you want to start us off with that, Critter?

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Sure. So I knew last episode I knew. I knew he was gonna come at me and do bad things, and he did. Um so I guess like this is a good opportunity to talk about the rage elemental, which holy hell, what a way to summon him. Last read, I was over here like, oh my god, shut up about the bathrooms. Like, I don't want to hear about the bathrooms anymore. It turns out they were just building us up for this awful, awful moment when Jack can't control himself and whips it out and goes on the wall. So yeah, it was um that sequence was really entertaining, um, really intense, but also really, really sad. Like, for example, whenever Carl was talking about, oh my god, what's her name? Was it Yolanda?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yolanda.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yolanda, and he's like, you know, something about like when his mom left him, like Yolanda never would have, like all of that stuff. It was just like he had such a read on her and he respected her so much, and it was so sweet and sad that you can go from nonsense, crack heron, you know, like pyramid scheme BS to like this really sweet, horrible, sad moment that makes you feel so many things. Um, in the same book, it was just really impressive. So, yeah, the Metal Ark people, they they set us up for failure, and um, we haven't completely failed yet, but we've we've had some real twists and turns. We've taken some hits, we've taken some major hits.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Becky, any thoughts to share on Metal Ark and how far we've gotten with that story?

SPEAKER_04 24:53

Yeah, my favorite is that Carl pretends to be Barry, uh Elle's husband. Like he knows that she's not like, and that's what she needs in that moment. And so again, it just speaks to Carl knowing what other people need and doing that even when it doesn't make sense. And these are people that he just met. Um, I also think it's a really pivotal moment because fighting that rage elemental and the buildup, right? So they escape it, but not totally, they're just in the safe room. Uh, and then there's hours where they're sort of preparing and figuring this out, which again speaks to Carl's intelligence and the ability to like think through a problem. Yeah, give up. Uh, and that's when they get all the views and their views spike and they start getting follower. Like, this is the thing that starts getting them more popular, that's going to help them along in the game. Uh, so and I love that Metal Ark was key to it. That is like because they encapsulate what Carl is and how he's approaching this game. So Chef's Kiss.

Maestro’s Show: Red-Pill Culture Critique

SPEAKER_02 26:01

I didn't even think about that. That like that Metal Ark was initially a sacrifice, like, oh, this isn't gonna help my game at all, and that it ended up super helping his games. That's that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

I did I had the fact that that happens, even though Zev is kind of like, hey, when are you gonna cut that dead weight? You know what I mean? I like the fact that it still worked in their favor. Um, not that it was about the views. The other aspect of the Meadowlark storyline that stuck with me, especially on reread, more so than on the first time around, is that when we meet Carl when he is stranded out in the snow, when everything collapses, the general impression that you get from the introduction to Carl is that yeah, he's a he's a decent enough guy, but he's just a regular guy who may or may not make questionable choices because his relationship doesn't sound like that's it's that good. And you make snap decisions, or at least I make snap decisions about characters. Uh, so if that's the first face of it you're gonna show me, I'm like, okay. So, you know, he's he's not necessarily a bad guy, but he may not necessarily be a guy who's got it all together or anything. So I made those snap decisions about Carl. And every time he interacts with Meadowlark people, and plenty of other things, but definitely with the Meadowlark people, he is he's beyond a good person, right? Like there are plenty of good people who would not look out for the Meadowlark people at all, would not have those interactions with Ellie, right? Like would not try to help in that instance. And so in that way, he's you know, better than the average bear. And you know, I just love that about him.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah, very good point.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Uh so there was something that got brought up earlier that I thought was a great idea. Critter, critter brought it so it brought it forward, and I think it came from you, Becky, and I think we're gonna run with it. I would like to know. Um, and Becky, I'm gonna put you on the spot. And then we'll go to you, Critter. If you had to pick your favorite baddie of the book, whether it's a mob, whether it's a boss, whoever you want to highlight for the entire book, but obviously it'd be cool if it was in part two. Um who is your favorite baddie out of book one?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Okay, and why? I can do this. Um, it's hard because I the mobs are so fun. Like the danger ding, like this is all hilarious. But if I had to go with baddie of the book, I'm gonna go with Ralph the gerbil. Um because like Ralph, Ralph was short-lived, and maybe it's because I can envision Ralph, like Kricarin, a bunch of tentacles, like larger than life, tentacles everywhere, you don't even really see the thing. Ralph, like when it gives you that picture of like frozen rodent coming at you, like I can I can envision that, and it's hilarious, and it's terrifying. And then he explodes one of the dingos, and then like, and then the way he dies is Carl realizes he has to please the AI in order to make it in, like, there is so much going on in that battle, and they get mango at the end, like, so much going on in that battle. But Ralph is like the center of it, and I just love him.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I love Ralph as a final baddie, you know. He had a lot going on.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Yeah, he had a lot going on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

Yeah, okay. Well, I kind of gave a hint about it, but I really, really liked the rage elemental sequence, and hey, that was in part two. But it just they drop in a level whatever, insanely high level bad guy because some because Jack couldn't handle himself appropriately. Like the way it started was funny and silly, but then it gets really serious really, really quickly. And the problem solving that Carl had to do, I love an exploit, and like don't get me wrong, I don't like it when people in multiplayer games use exploits to like hurt other people in multiplayer games or like PvP wise, but using like funny exploits or you know, glitches in games sometimes are you just watch YouTube videos of them, they're so much fun. And granted, there was an exploit that he used against Krack Karen, the the table, right? He discovered it was invincible or whatever, um, which I appreciated a lot. But this one was extra brilliant in my mind. He's like, you can just envision them zooming down the hallways, like trying to get away from this thing, um, throwing bombs out the back. Like it's just there's so many, like that to me was so visualizable, which in battles I don't always have that ability. But and granted, it was very vague, but I'm just picturing like Donkey Kong country, right? They're throwing like exploding barrels behind them, like stuff like that. Like it's so familiar. And then they ended up using an exploit by making it go down the stairs and like you know, doing the uh the quick teleport to get out of the way, right? It's very like there's a scene in the wheel of time that's kind of like that. There's you know, the it's just it was so satisfying, especially because apparently people think Carl's not that smart. Um, so that was my yeah, the Rage Elemental was just because of how intense, intense it was. Plus the fact that it turns out that they probably would have killed it after all, and they didn't get any of the experience. Like, oh, that just lead made you just so close. But I really, I I love the rage elemental. Jessica, what was your favorite?

Meadowlark Stakes And Humanity

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Um, well, before I say my favorite, I just want to add to that. Like, as somebody who hasn't played as many games as you, that's an aspect of the writing that kind of floored me. Like, that's that's experiencing the dungeons on a whole nother level that I never even would have thought of. As a writer, I never even would have thought to write that in. So it just kind of added that dimension in a way that I never would have considered. So I I loved that too. Um, and this, you know, the hidden strategy behind it. Like, I want to use this exploit, but I can't say it out loud because I don't want anybody to hear me, because I don't want them to do a patch. And I'm like, oh my god, that's diabolical.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Always dumb wheels are always turning, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

And it's not dumb. He's not dumb.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

He's not dumb. Far from it.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Um, so my baddie of the book is so weird to say. Krack Karens were my favorite. Um, because I don't know. I think I'm just a certain age woman that like I can see it. Um, I've had to like I've had to be on PTA and cookie committees with Kraken Karens. Um the screeching, the weird chemical that they're making, the MLM, like all of it was just so not a pyramid. If you're gonna talk to me, just at me, bro. Like, don't yeah, you don't have to you don't have to shout. Um, so yeah, crack heron really just kind of killed me. Uh, frenzy charable was wild.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Yeah, like wild.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Frenzy, frenzy, like small but miny. But I think crack heron has to take it for me.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

I do have to give a shout-out though to what's his face, Jim Bro, because because I I said uh Joe and Mac in the last episode when I was talking about that fight, but in hindsight, it reminds me of I think Street Fighter. I'm I'm trying to remember, there's like an arcade game where you're like you like throw stuff around, and that yeah, okay, and like throwing dumbbells is just so fun to visualize. Also, I think my favorite fights were always the ones that I could like I had a picture in my mind of what was going on, and the Jimbro was also another one that really worked for me because of that.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Misspent youth. I should have gamed more. I would have I feel like it would have changed my read.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Maybe, but the Karen worked for you.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

So the Karen did work for me.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Uh so I don't have a lot of other bullets. I I think the other thing that I wanted to call out um was the danger dingos in the danger dingo.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Sorry, the audiobook really helped for that. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Um, and just the fact that they were in cages, and you know, he didn't do the senseless kill, he wound up befriending them. It wound up working out well for them from a gameplay perspective, but just the humanity of there was no reason to kill them. They were in a cage, they're not hurting anybody. Um just that extra dash of humanity, and I I liked that, but just another you want, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:42

Talking about hunger games, like symbolism here or similarities, at least, like Carl is figuring out who the real enemy is, and it's not the people in the dungeon that he's fighting, and how that's going to impact him and how it changes how he makes decisions. Yeah, that was that was a pretty big turning point, too. Yeah, yeah.

The Rage Elemental: Setup And Strategy

SPEAKER_01 35:05

So, Critter, um when we discussed part one, you had pretty strong feelings about Frank and Maggie May.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Uh-huh. Yeah, sure did. Sure did. Sorry, I thought you were gonna ask me about my predictions, which I do want to talk about, but we can circle back.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Love that. I just wanted to close the loop on Frank and Maggie May and about the reveal about um how Carl was responsible for their daughter's death.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Uh no, he wasn't, but continue.

SPEAKER_01 35:32

Why don't you why don't you elaborate? I I I don't need to say more.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Sure. Okay, well, this is a game where you can heal over time, right? And the daughter was not dead, and her mother killed her, which I mean, she said that Carl didn't have the full picture. So now I just want to know the full picture because how can that happen? How did that go down? Like, I'm just completely perplexed. And honestly, like obviously Carl feels bad because he didn't intend for her to get hurt.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

But to be clear, I don't think Carl's to blame either. I just I spoke carelessly.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

You know you wanted to trick me. You know it. You know you were trying to get a reaction out of me.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

And you did. I'm gonna trick, I'm gonna trick somebody who's a rules lawyer.

unknown 36:15

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

Um, yes, no, it was uh it was a big reveal, the fact that there was a third person when the second person even was the was a big reveal in in part one. Um so, anyways, I need more of that story. Except for the funny thing is when Zev was like, oh, that's kind of a tired storyline at this point, like we'll see what happens later, but we're like not super into it right now. I think that was Zev when she said that. Um I'm kind of in the same position where like I don't like them. So if they didn't show up for five more books, I'd be okay. As long as I eventually find out why the hell she killed her daughter, unless it's just psychopathy, which you know, whatever. Um, so yeah, that was interesting. It was an interesting twist. The fact that they showed up in that talk show that will never be mentioned again in from my lips. Um, that was that was uh a twist that I guess could have been predicted, but I didn't like it because I don't like them. I hate them, they're gross. That's that's all.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Yeah, so they showed up in the gross show. Like that made sense to me. I was like, oh yeah, that is who he would bring up. Yes, I love that. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Becky, do you have anything to add on the Frank and Maggie storyline?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

I I should I can't either. Oh yeah, I guess maybe you guys know more than I do.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

I do think, no, I will say this. I think it's one of the first times like Carl starts realizing he's only getting bits and pieces. Like even when he watches the recap episodes, like then watching this on Maestro gave him even more information, but then they're saying it's still not the full story. So I think that's helping sort of shape what he's feeling and interpreting about the dungeon too. So that is important, even without the full picture.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yeah. And I like the fact that he's catching on to that real time. Uh, another place where he talks about that is with Agatha at the end and realizing that there are things going on that he doesn't understand, and that it's probably better not to speak up, right? Until he knows more. Um so I call that showing their work, right? They're doing long division and they're showing me their work. Uh, and I like it when we get those insights. Uh so Critter, you teed it up beautifully. I would love to hear predictions, uh, wild or otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

Um, no, let's talk about my old predictions first. Okay. First things first. If you recall and you watched the last episode, our outro, our outro, which I wrote, okay. It wasn't Jessica who wrote it. I wrote it, was eerily similar to the outro for this book. Like, remember, it was new achievement. I know you can read it. I saw it. I like I was channeling Matt Dinneman when I wrote our outro last episode, and that wasn't even an official prediction. So I just feel really proud of myself for that. I had to give myself a shout out. As you should. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

I didn't, I don't know how I kept a straight face.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Well, you were like, oh, I love it. So I think you like really, really nailed it um with that. Becky, did you so you said you watched our last episode? Did you clock that whenever it happened? Oh yeah. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Absolutely, I did. I thought you had sneakily read the second part before you did the outro.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Because I was like, oh and what's funny is Jessica did the outro and then she didn't like read the script that I wrote. So I was like, wait, Jessica, I wrote this awesome outro. I want you to do it. So she went back and did it again. And uh now I like I was so right. It was awesome. Okay, so that was an accidental prediction that I had that I'm really proud of.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Still awesome.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Thing number two. Remember when I was like, oh my gosh, what if they give him boxers as future armor? And then he literally, the moment it happened and he got enchanted boxers, I yelled. I was I whooped, I hollered.

Exploits, Ethics, And Audience Growth

SPEAKER_00 39:51

I honestly thought I'd get a text. I genuinely was like, if I get a text this week, I'll know why.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

No, I wanted to save it because I wanted to, you know, I don't I don't want to call this gloating, but whatever you do a prediction. And granted, it could have been like that one was not the hardest thing to predict because it's so funny and iconic. Um but a win is a win. A win is a win. So I'm gonna be proud of myself for it, but I'm not gonna gloat super hard. And I can't remember any other predictions that I might have made.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Um I didn't go back and review the tape for that. I went back and I boned up on our MVP and runner up. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

No, that was good of you. Um okay, and then so future future predictions. I want, I can't remember because they went down to level three, right? But like they haven't picked their class yet, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:34

I no, they haven't. They just just gone down.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Carl's gonna stay a human, right? That's just I feel like and again, maybe I am my my uh perception has been clouded because uh or not clouded, but like made clearer because I've seen future book covers. And I try not to, but like I buy them on audio audible. Uh there was a recent sale on Audible of the whole series, so I went in and was like buying them. And so I feel like I Carl looks the same in all the covers, as far as I can tell. So unless he's so I think he's gonna remain human. His class is something that I'm super curious about, but I feel like he's giving barbarian, but depending on how the classes are, like what the classes are in this. Um, but the fact that he also does a lot of explosives and stuff makes me think like I I don't know. I'm just like really excited to find out what his class is, and I can't I can't I'm just gonna say barbarian just because that's like my best guess at this point, and I don't actually know what the classes are. Um and Donuts gotta keep her thing. Oh, I didn't mention this before. I really love Zev. I think she's great. She warned them about the Rage Elemental thing number one. She got punished for it, but then also gossip girl fan, and she taught Donut about fan fiction and and uh oh my gosh, what's the AO3? AO3. That to me was a huge I really appreciated that.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

So what I caught this time that I didn't catch last time? What's that? That Mordecai was part of that gossip girl fan. Yes, yes, yes. I was like, did I doze off? Did I miss that last time? That Mordecai was in it.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Yeah, I loved it. I love that part. Um, so yeah, I'm the I'm gonna cap my predictions there and just be really excited about the ones that I got read.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Okay. And we did get an answer to your question if it it's only one level per book.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

Yes, we did. We made it two. So we'll see what happens in the future.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

We made it two, or a case could be made that we made it to three because they did in fact descend.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Yes. They did descend. True. True. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

So if you had to, this is not about prediction, but it if there's something you wanted to see more of going into the third floor, what would you hope to see?

Favorite Baddies: Ralph, Elemental, Krack Karen

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Hmm. I want to see so Carl made a really good point talking to Donut where people don't like it when you play for the camera, right? He said that it's it screams inauthentic. And to me, that had like such a real world connection, right? Because there's this phenomenon, right, where a bunch of people got onto TikTok and social media in 2020 and just gave their real selves, right? They were all in real jobs, they were all doing real things. And like, say you're a nurse, you're talking about nursing. Say you're a teacher, you're talking about teaching. And some of the people who blew up quit their jobs and then they became inauthentic. They're doing giant halls with like things that they bought for shopping. They're driving Porsches, right? And and then they started losing followers because they were no longer relatable. And so the fact that just that throwaway comment from Carl was so true and accurate. Um, I love to see it in the book. All that being said, I would like to see Donut develop like a self-awareness. Like I need her to not be addicted to this as much as she's addicted to the fame. Um, and I know that could be a long arc, right? Because she's Princess Donut, queen of the cats, whatever. Um, but and she's got a long way to go because she every time she gets that dopamine hit, she she tells us about it, right? Um, but I need I would like to see her become more authentic and less playing for the I want her to play for the camera less and just be herself. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I think that's a great goal. I think so too. Um, I think that uh again, I can only at it I'll ask you Becky and then I'll answer. Coming back to coming back to book one after having been through the series. Any favorite flashback moments or anything that stood out to you more this time that maybe you didn't catch last time?

SPEAKER_04 44:32

There's so many breadcrumbs. So I don't think I want to say them because I don't want to like but there's so many breadcrumbs that I did not pick up on the first time because there's just so many characters and everyone's new and whatever. So on the reread that was what I appreciated was being able to go back and be like oh my gosh they're here at the beginning right like that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Absolutely so mine's the same thing only different right like there are vibes that exist in book one that I did not pick up on until later or maybe weren't a story relevant until later. Yeah that that were here and it was so fun to come back to book one and be like oh okay so yeah it's it's really good.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Our author Matt is a speaking of smart smart men like I am impressed because he's writing these books relatively fast.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Uh another one's coming out later this year right yes I think this is for summer yeah so like all of the things that he's able to tie to like it's impressive props props to all and again the story plays on different levels right like you have the crawler perspective and as it's part of the dungeon crawler world show and how it plays on a uh galactic stage apparently and there's a lot of nuance in there and um plenty of that irreverence right that you spoke to Critter um and and just some real whacked out stuff but then there's still plenty of heart like he's he's got a really good mix going. I think it's been really incredible. He's definitely got me like I cannot wait until the next book drops. Like I'm so excited that Critter agreed to do this.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Yes I I think a lot of it is like his ability to zoom in and zoom out because it is it's an intergalactic stage. Like you see the number of views that they're getting and it's trillions and quadrillions and you're like this is unfair but it starts with Carl and then Carl and like and then it zooms out to overwhelm you and then it zooms back in like it's brilliantly done.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

So I think I was gonna bring us back there's one thing that we have to say it is the elephant in the room. When somebody says but are there dragons sadly in book one there were no dragons no dragons however we did get a velociraptor a velociraptor clever come on let me tell you I was excited he might as well be an honorary dragon yeah yeah yes very excited about that agree yeah so I think we're probably close to the end where I will just ask if either of you have any other favorite or standout moments that you want to share before we start the wrap up phase.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Uh-uh yeah no I like brought up the things that I really appreciated I'm pretty sure oh the fact that Carl invented something and got credit for it was interesting. I mean it's an interesting game element it once again speaks to his intelligence though like I'm sure other people are like throwing together Molotov cocktails but he invented a very specific item that he will now get paid small dividends for going forward like very cool.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

I thought that was cool very cool and that the game has a mechanism already in place for that right there is a fee already established.

Danger Dingos And Choosing Compassion

SPEAKER_02 47:57

Yeah yeah this company's like hurting for money and yet I guess maybe they have to give him credit with it. I'm sure somebody along the line sued them for IP that's fair yeah um so would you say critter that it's safe to say that you enjoyed book one oh my gosh yes as I said like I had read all of part two before our episode was published like so like our episode um so we recorded on a Thursday I read everything and then the episode was published on a Tuesday and so I had to reread part two because I was I read it so fast I just inhaled it that I needed to remember what had happened. It's one of those books that you just it's like it's like addicting um so yeah I'm super excited super happy to have read it and so did you have to go to a filler book? I did I go I went yeah no I did I went to a filler book I read um Angie Kills a king by Elvin Lakeham I think is his name um he's a mutual of mine on TikTok and he just got published with his first book and it was really entertaining actually I gave it four out of five stars on Goodreads.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Nice yeah and then of course tonight you can start book two. Now I get to start book two let me tell you I'm pretty excited about it yeah okay well I think that that uh brings us through to the fun part of the show which is hopefully Becky you were told we like to do a little thing where we talk about the runner up and MVP for every section of a book that we read so we did this with part one and now we're gonna do it for part two.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

And as the guest I'm gonna let you kick off with a runner up with just a runner up no runner up so welcome aboard I'm gonna put you on the spot for Dungeon Crawler Carl book one part two who would you choose as your runner up my runner up I did I had since I watched part one I had advanced warning that this was gonna happen so I have thought about it. My runner up is none other than Zev uh which is a little bit of a deep cut but Zev helps Carl and Donut uh that's a big deal and she gets in trouble for helping Carl and Donut but then she still comes back and continues to engage with them in a way that's arguably no different than it was before she got in trouble and that takes some kahunas so I say Zev for runner up.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Solid choice. Critter who are you backing as your runner up for part two Becky's got good taste.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

I'm a Zev too I'm a Zev too I was going Zev. I don't know she was just very very helpful I love a sidekick who's uh putting herself on the line um she's also funny and just she she brought a new vibe to part two that wasn't in part one um she was like she's like part two's Mordecai because Mordecai was like really valuable and his insights were great in part one that was Zev for me in part two.

unknown 51:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

What about you?

SPEAKER_01 51:06

For me for runner up I have donut so there are the there are some seedlings of some really important things that donut is bringing to their partnership that is just starting to bloom in in the second part uh that we didn't see as much in part one so I love donut as my runner up okay so Becky do you want to do your MVP or do you want to go first?

SPEAKER_04 51:38

No no I'll do mine again. I'm gonna stay on theme. My MVP is actually Odette for the second half of the book. We got uh two of her shows. They went back at the end before they descended or have they not I did they did okay the epilogue we got two of her shows uh and just like Zev she is at least giving advice and guidance to Carl and donut whether or not it's helpful I guess we'll see eventually but she arguably has even more to lose uh than Zev does she's not employed by the game she's press she should be like interviewing people and not getting involved we see that theme pretty strongly throughout the book uh but she turns off her show and she relates to them on a ex-crawler to crawler basis and I think that's really clutch so regardless of where it goes from here Odette is my MVP for part two of book one accent critter yeah I mean you have to know it's Carl it's Carl all day I mean he not only like thought he was sacrificing himself for donut in the Krick Heron um fight uh and then he didn't die because his feet were invincible which I think is so funny.

Predictions, Classes, And Zev’s Role

SPEAKER_02 52:49

It's dumb but it's funny like it's a it's one of those things that you just it's giggle about because it's really stupid but I enjoy it. Um so he did that he he was willing to sacrifice himself but time and again he is so freaking smart and so like his he he was the one who got rid of the uh rage elemental like because of his amazing scheme he's the one who invented Carl's jugaboo like he is and he's an incredible person as we talked about and I don't really need to wax wood about it because everybody knows at this point that Carl is the bomb. And uh and so yeah MVP again for me.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

He was MVP part one MVP part two MVP for the book for critter so I am also same thing only different uh he is incredibly intelligent all the heart he brought to all of the things that happened in the second half um can't get it can't give it up enough for Carl so um it's Carl by a landslide for DCC book one um which well done thank you for the injections for Zev and Audet I see it I definitely see it um but yeah Carl Carl took book one by a landslide he did he did and I think well deserved donut and Zev tied for second I believe because donut was we got two Zevs and Donut was a runner up in part one and a runner up in part two for Jessica.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Yes yeah okay interesting okay donut that kind of tracks and I'm not gonna be able to explain why but that kind of tracks okay all right so congratulations Carl for MVP congratulations to Matt Dinnaman for writing an amazing amazing book and thank you Becky for coming on this was so much fun for having me I loved it we can talk more about dungeons and Carl all the time. All the time okay well it was amazing um I'm gonna put Becky's information in the description of the video on YouTube um so you can find her if you're interested in her Disney hot tips. Can I just say I follow her on Instagram I don't know when I'm gonna go to Disney next but I feel like I know so much more about Disney because of her just every day it's like her stories are giving insight. So I highly recommend following her she's a Disney just I don't know guru. I'm not sure she's something it's yeah it's incredible the work that she does. So yeah are we good? Are we good to transition? We are good. All right so let's announce what we're going to be reading next you all are going to be shocked that we are going to read Carl's Doomday scenario is that book two? Yes Carl's Doomsday scenario book two in the Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Deniman. We're all very excited about it and we are jumping straight in as Jessica said I'm gonna be reading this starting tonight. So we're gonna read to chapter 14 in that book chapters one through 14 and that episode is going to be dropping March 14th sorry March 17th. I said there it is reading to chapter 14 dropping on March 17th. So you've got like half a month to get it read the first half um highly recommended because I'm gonna be devouring it and I'm really excited to talk about we also have a couple of guests that are going to be coming on for that one unless something crazy happens. So get excited for that we're gonna tell you who it's gonna be but it's pretty exciting. So thank you so much for tuning in to our second episode of season seven of But are there dragons brought to you by your hosts Jessica Sedai and me, CritterXD and our very special guest Becky. Don't forget to follow us at Butare There Dragons on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok and Butt Dragons Podjust1T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media as CritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That is it for today new achievement you can read a whole book even wow reward you get to read another book yes bye bye