But Are There Dragons Podcast

Season 7 Episode 5: DCC Book 3 Dungeon Anarchist's Cookbook Part 1

• Kritter and Jessica • Season 7 • Episode 5

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Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read, and talk about it. For our seventh season, we're reading Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman! This episode covers Book 3, The Dungeon Anarchist's Cookbook, Chs 1-17, with Jessica as the vet and Kritter as the first timer!

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Welcome And Host Reintroductions

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them hasn't read and talk about it. I'm your host, Critter.

SPEAKER_03

And I'm your host Jess.

SPEAKER_01

And we're here to talk about the first half of the Dungeon Anarchists Cookbook, book three of the Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Dinneman, chapters one through seventeen. Now I am a Dungeon Crawler Carl noob, and Jessica is a Dungeon Crawler Carl vet, having read all of the available books, so she is kind of doing the, you know, doing the inquiries during this our season five. Season seven. I'm sorry, season seven of Bud Are Their Dragons, and it's been an absolute blast. As you can see, we actually don't have any, well, you might not be able to see if you're listening. We actually don't have a guest for this episode. We've had several guests lately. It's been so much fun having them on, but this time it's just gonna be me and Jessica. And so I think the OGs. The OG. So I figured since we don't have guests, and usually the guests introduce themselves, we would reintroduce ourselves because we haven't really done that in a while, right? We just say that we're the hosts. Um, so I'll go first since this was my idea and I didn't tell Jessica about it. I am Critter XD. I am a content creator on TikTok and YouTube and Instagram and really, you know, wherever you want to find your content. I do a lot of fantasy and sci-fi stuff. I report on shows and movies that are coming out. I read a lot of books and talk about them, and it's been really, really fun doing that. It's been kind of my creative outlet because my job is very serious and I enjoy not being super serious. Um, so that's so if you want to find me, Critter XD, wherever you feel like getting your content. Uh also I'm on Discord, and if you want to talk about the podcast, you can also find us on my Discord. Um, and the link for that would be in the description of this on YouTube. Jessica?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so I'm Jessica Sedai, aka Jessica Squee Dai, and I am a little bit more of an enigma, wrapped in a mystery, I guess. I am kind of a semi-professional fangirl. I don't necessarily create content, but I love good fantasy, and I am a lover of good-looking bookshelves and anything sci-fi fantasy, whether it be book media or um TV or movie. And that is how Critter and I met each other. And then we decided to uh get together on this podcast and start doing a little mini book club thing, and it's been a blast. So I am also in all the spaces that Critter is in. I am more of a lurker. I am a cheer on, I'm a squee. I'm a good vibe girly. So I can be found um as shelf indulgence in most all of those places as well. And you can find butt are their dragons any place where there's social media.

Adaptation Updates Kick Off

Fourth Wing Series Early Signals

SPEAKER_01

It's true, it's true. And you say that you're not much of a content creator, but here we are creating content. Here we are. That's a bit of a lie. A bit valid of a lie. All right. So let's dive into a newer segment that we've started called But Are There Updates. And given some recent news, we decided that we wanted to talk about the adaptations that have come out or are going to come out from the books that we've read in this podcast. So we've got, let's list them, Jess, you first.

SPEAKER_03

Uh so from oldest to newest, yes, there is on the horizon in talks uh uh development for a fourth wing series. On it's at Amazon being produced by Michael B. Jordan.

SPEAKER_01

Newly minted Oscar winner, Michael B. Jordan.

SPEAKER_03

So that is, you know, near and dear to our hearts. There is less to know about that than our other uh contestants, but it does look promising and he does seem to be very interested. There was a variety article, I believe, on it, and I can provide that if we want to link it. But it was very exciting because we read Rebecca Yarros's work uh for the Fourth Wing series here, and I would be interested to see their take on it.

Project Hail Mary Movie Reactions

SPEAKER_01

As will I. And the fact that it's with Amazon has me a little apprehensive given what they did to the Wheel of Time show. But you know what? I I did hear that Amazon did not want the Wheel of Time show to die, and it was just a mixture of a bunch of other stuff. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here. I think the article that you were talking about, uh Michael B. Jordan was talking about the casting, and it was something along the lines of hoping to find relative unknowns so that you don't have any sort of like baggage when it comes to the people who are cast, at least as the main characters, which I like. Um, and he didn't want it to be cheesy, which to me, Fourth Wing could be cheesy, depending on how they do it. So I'm uh I'm pretty excited about that. I mean, Michael B. Jordan's got taste, he's got class, and the fact that he's like producing it is is uh music to my ears. So I'm pretty excited about that. Another one that is older than that one uh that we actually really need to talk about is Project Hail Mary. We read it, it was like a standalone season. It was our last season, so season six. Um loved the book, absolutely loved it. And then I have seen the movie one time. Jessica, how many times have you seen the movie? I've only seen it twice.

SPEAKER_03

Don't make it, don't make it, don't make it out like that. So in the I want to see it twice. I'm jealous. It was amazing. So I went to see it two weekends in a row. So we had a group friend date. So we took a movie outing. Um, there was a crew of us that went to see it uh opening weekend. That was fantastic. It was really fantastic, and we had um mutual friends and somebody in the group who has not read the books, so we got a little bit of uh a spectrum of reactions. It was a it was a super good time. And Project Hail Mary, I think I I can't speak for critter for me, was my first five-star book of the year. So I was so, so hyped to see it and I felt like it didn't disappoint. And then the following weekend, uh, we went to see uh Mr. Jessica's parents and took Mr. Jessica's mom to see it uh because she also read the book, loved the book, and very much wanted to go see it. So, I mean, how could I say no to that?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I wouldn't have said no. Actually, my mom texted me today and said, Me and dad went and saw Project Hail Mary. It was amazing. So I tried to get her because my dad loves space, he loves action movies, he loves sci-fi, he's a Star Trek Star Wars guy. I knew he would like it, but I also knew because my mom is one of those that needs a little something deep, I knew she would like it too, because it's got it's got it all. It really did have it all. And I think um, I think for me and for Mr. Jessica, and I'm not sure how you felt about it, I was a little bit bummed that we missed out on some of the bigger science items in the book, like nuking Antarctica, like paving part of the Sahara Desert, that stuff, those drastic measures that they took on Earth that really upped the ante and emphasized the severity of the issue. I would have loved to see that. I want to see what I've heard is the three-hour and 45-minute cut of the movie that existed at one point for test screenings. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03

I would yeah, I would be cash funny to see that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um, but so I was curious what the person that didn't read the books in your group thought, Jessica, and how you felt about the science, the lack of some of the science.

SPEAKER_03

Uh so I'll go. Uh so for the person who hadn't read the books, did kind of hear some of the audio book, but didn't really retain it of context, not a surprise. Um, he really liked it. He did, though, think that uh he did think that the ending was different. I don't want to be spoilery, um, but he thought the ending ended differently than it did. So he was like, really? That's how it, that's how the book ended too. And we're like, yeah, oh, okay.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So it's kind of funny. Um, but yeah, no, everybody across the board for us, everybody enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I will say I also was disappointed. I could see like the nods to the science. Um, but as you know, and as you alluded to, Mr. Jessica is a huge science nerd and was disappointed that there was not enough science for him.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um ironically, I've heard people say that it was a lot of science, and I was like, I have too.

SPEAKER_01

Co-worker of mine was like, too much science. And I was just like, Okay.

SPEAKER_03

That's a that's an opinion. Um, and you are entitled to it. Uh, I think I also would have liked to have seen there were some other moments of I definitely wanted to see those moments that you were talking about because it focused on the fact that there were other efforts that were going on in other places through Project Hail Mary to uh maximize the odds for the earth um and the science piece of it. But also there's one specific scene that was really important to me when we did our read. Um, and that was uh Strat going to uh court and uh being called to task for her actions and kind of some conversation that happened after that where she, and I'm paraphrasing heavily, said, you know, I fully expect to, you know, end up in jail for the choices that I've made. Yeah, but it was worth it. Um and it was such a huge moment for me with my love of strat through our read. Uh, I was really disappointed that it didn't make because I thought it was cool in that she basically had a get out of jail free card. Yeah. You know, she had a paper from all of the major powers in the in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I did see something on TikTok, and I don't know if it's real, but somebody said that there is a scene. The the I think it's whenever she receives the data from Grace. Um, that you can see that she's got a tattoo that looks like a prison tattoo, like on her neck or something, as like a nod to maybe she did go to prison and then get out. Um, I don't know that that's real. Obviously, like I don't believe anything these days because of AI. Um, so I want to see the movie again so I can try and spot it with my own two eyes, but that would be really cool. I do, though, wish the courtroom scene would have happened because she was such a hard butt and I would have just loved to see it in action.

SPEAKER_03

And I can't imagine, I would not have wanted the job of cutting this. I oh no, no, I couldn't have because I loved it all. So, you know, there's a reason I'm not an editor.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And despite these critiques, I still absolutely loved it.

SPEAKER_03

Like I would want to buy it the second it's on streaming platforms. Like we will we will own it. It's just a given.

Colbert Tolkien Project Speculation

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'll probably get it like a physical copy, 4K. Yeah, so I have the like, you know, collector's item. What, anyways, very, very good. So that was number two. That was number two. Number three that got we heard about about a week ago ish, was there is going to be a Stephen Colbert co-written movie about what happened in the Fellowship of the Ring book in chapters like three through nine. Six chapters in the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring, basically Frodo leaving Bag End, and then all the way until they get to the Prancing Pony. So we're talking, I mean, and and granted, those are the chapters they said this movie is gonna cover, but I've since heard that it's gonna be framed in such a way that it like is is uh it honors the original movies. So I guess what's gonna happen is after Frodo and Gandalf leave for the Undying Lands, Sam, Mary, and Pippin are gonna go on this like journey retracing their original steps through the Shire at the beginning of their quest. And then something about Sam's daughter Eleanor is gonna like follow them somehow or like uncover some dark something or another. I don't know. I'm not exactly sure. From what I've gathered, it sounds like it's going to be a series, like maybe Eleanor's going to be like a vehicle through which the things that happen to the original hobbits get to happen on screen, even if it's not to the original hobbits. I'm not I'm not certain how it's gonna go. Um okay I was yeah, I was really, really hyped when I was like, oh my gosh, they're just gonna add stuff. And you know what? It would have worked with even with their older ages. Obviously, like next to the original movies, it would have looked a little odd, but the hobbits are older in the book. Some of the hobbits are at least, and so that would have totally worked that they were older than this.

SPEAKER_03

But I also got very hype and and kind of skimmed the details because I was um any of the OG butter dragon fans who were with us through our Lord of the Rings read, uh, the Goldberry of it all, the Tom Bombadil of it all, because Stephen Colbert is kind of famous for his love of Tom Bombadil. Um and so the idea of getting more of that content. And I was such a huge Colberry fan when we did our read. Um so I kind of and it's it's early days, right? Uh we'll see how that actually shakes out. But I think that it's very exciting. Colbert is just such a very, very well-known, huge Tolkien fan.

SPEAKER_01

And scholar. I mean, it's a he's like he's got so much deep Lord of the Rings knowledge, it's actually wild and impressive. And apparently his son is a screen writer. So we we've got Colbert's love and knowledge of Lord of the Rings mixed with somebody who's an actual screenwriter, it could end up being pretty amazing.

Dungeon Crawler Carl TV Show News

SPEAKER_03

And Peter Jackson is, you know, is involved. So it's it looks really promising. It was very exciting when I saw the um announcement.

SPEAKER_01

And then finally, Jessica alerted me to something that happened literally today.

SPEAKER_03

And that was a variety article. Um, and I had heard some noises about it, but this is the first time I saw anything in print, and I had to really quick scan the article and make sure there were no spoilers. But it has been announced that Dungeon Crawler Carl is getting made into a TV show, which is the rumbling that I heard, but that show now is supposed to have a home on Peacock when it comes to bee. So there was a nice little variety article write-up about it, uh, talking about how Seth McFarlane is attached to the project and some other people who are probably really prominent, like common names, and I'm just not in the know. Right. I recognize Seth McFarlane's name, and I knew I knew that there was something in the offing, but this was like confirmation that it was picked up for Peacock.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, pretty amazing. And and Seth McFarlane's Fuzzy Door productions have done the likes of the Orville, which I loved, very like heartfelt, spacey, you know, Star Trek spin, not spin off, but like basically like Star Trek. I loved it. It got canceled after a few seasons, and that was so terrible. Um, but they also did Ted, which to me is a really good indication of how they'll treat Princess Donut, because like, you know, Ted is the main character in that sh in his show and movie, and he's a talking teddy bear in a live action setting. And that kind of can be compared to what Princess Donut will end up being, except for they're gonna end up having to use probably gobs and gobs of CGI if they're gonna try to match what happens in the series, which will be it's gonna be a test, and I'm like a little nervous about it.

SPEAKER_03

There's just so much there's just so much. It it doesn't even start at Donut. Donut is the tip of the iceberg.

SPEAKER_01

Literally, just because Donut's like the most heavily featured character, that's probably gonna require a bunch of CGI. Yeah. Unless they literally just try to use a cat, which would be wild, but you know, who knows? Who knows?

SPEAKER_03

But I didn't realize they did Ted, and I I agree that that that kind of gives you hope that they can they can do they can do it justice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I hope so. And honestly, their experience with the Orville, if I remember, they did a lot of like practical effects, makeup and stuff like that for the characters that aren't human. So I am worried that it's gonna require a lot of CGI, but there are characters like goblins and stuff like that that could be done maybe with more practical effects. And so I'm hoping that they'll kind of do a good blend of both to make it look what what I hope it will look like.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So that's exciting stuff. Yeah, and then of course, you know, uh the next book is coming out for May for Dungeon Crawler Carl, which we probably won't be lined up with necessarily, but not quite, no, but it is exciting, it's exciting times to be a Dungeon Crawler Carl fan.

SPEAKER_01

It definitely is. That'll be book eight. There's seven. Yeah, so that's intense.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Great update segment.

SPEAKER_01

Love it, love it.

SPEAKER_03

On to the book, on to the book. Okay, so we read chapters one through 17 for this section. And I want to just share with our watchers and listeners that one of the things that came up for me reading this book is that it comes with a disclaimer. And it was probably too late, but I made a point of sending the disclaimer to Critter. I had not started reading. Oh, okay, perfect. So, uh, and I don't have a screenshot of it, so I'm just gonna paraphrase this book deals with the Iron Tangle. Um, I have gone on the record so many times about how passive I am and trying to figure things out and basically don't try to figure things out. This book comes with a disclaimer that the iron tangle and the stuff related to it is really convoluted and you don't have to crack the code or solve the puzzle to enjoy the book. When it gets closer to the end, a map will be provided and everything will be explained. So don't make yourselves crazy and risk not enjoying the book. And I, for one, really appreciated that. And then when I finally had my Kindle with me, I took a screenshot of it and I sent it to Critter. And I'm like, just in case.

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, though, I feel like I wasn't trying to map it, but they did give us enough of a description where I was like, okay, the colored lines run one way, the name lines go in loops, there's only one train on the main line. There's enough in there that I was like, okay, I've got a general vibe. It's making sense. So just while the disclaimer was appreciated, I do think that he did enough in the text that people wouldn't necessarily be overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_03

I I definitely appreciated it though. Like it was permission to just glaze be okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah. It was kind.

SPEAKER_03

So uh going into this book, uh my first few notes are about uh donut and we got a new tiara. So gotta be happy about getting a new tiara.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. We got a new tiara and sunglasses. And sunglasses.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And um they built their honeycomb hideout. So that was like a big focus in the beginning part of this part of the read. Uh building up their personal spaces. And I thought that that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, how that works, how things combine and level up, the implications of having Katya with them, who is with them, but isn't necessarily part of their glute group and her incomplete her um limbo status with Hecla's group.

Katya’s Limbo And Trust Issues

SPEAKER_01

Can we talk about that? Yeah. I don't really want to talk about that. Okay. I think it's interesting. I was like not in ironically, much like the viewers in the book, I was not into the edition of Katya. And it's not probably because of them, like I didn't care that she's boring or whatever, because she's not boring. To me, she's a threat in in multiple ways. Ever almost every time Carl's like doing something else and they're not fighting, and he like looks at her, she's chatting with Hecla. She's always in communication with the daughters, which to me feels like she is intentionally remaining disconnected from Carl and Donut, which I hate. Um Carl noticed that she was kind of uncomfortable when he asked her to tank, despite the fact that that is literally her class and her role. And and then, you know, Donut's trying to train her up on things. Carl's trying to help her by giving her the backpack and granted, he's being a little bit bossy, but like they're trying to help her in every way that they can, but the whole time it's with the understanding that if she gets the chance, she's going to abandon them. And I hate that. It make it gives me the heebie-jeebies. Like, you know, she got like Mordecai wanted her, you know, to use her upgrades for a certain reason. Obviously, like that was somewhat selfish on his part, but also like anything he made with that stuff would have helped her while she remained with the party. But instead, she went and did her another thing. Like, if she ends up leaving, her training I think she's the one who Who has the training um part in their in their humble abode, the you know, where they spend an hour, I think it's hers. If she leaves, that's gone. And the and and she's taking advantage of everything that they're giving her, right? The the super awesome bed, the super awesome shower, all the experience from Carl and Donuts crazy escapades. And yet, I still just think sh her loyalty is completely with Hecla. And I hate it. I I I like I can't I can feel for her and feel sorry for her, but I can't like her for that reason. I don't know. This whole time, she's just like a dark cloud over this whole situation for me. Because I just I'm just waiting for the shoe to drop and for her to leave them and then them to like only have a level four personal space and just a button, you know, and just get screwed. Like, so yeah. And the reason they have like she has a personal space is because of them, like all of the stuff, she's just using them essentially, and then Hecla's going to presumably come scoop her back up. So either or or if the author wants to like really rip our heart out, she's gonna end up like sacrificing herself for them or something, which would totally redeem her in my eyes. But obviously, I don't want to see somebody die. So I don't know. I'm torn about her. Honestly, when I was thinking about this earlier, I think the ideal scenario would be as if Heckla's crew and Carl's crew united because then they would be like a force. But somehow I feel like they're just like diametrically opposed, like Hecla's like no no boys allowed situation, and Carl and Donut are very independent, even though it would make sense for them to have a big amazing party, right? It'd be safer. But I don't know, I don't think it's gonna go that way. And it's and I don't like it. Do you remember how you felt about Katya the first time you read the books?

SPEAKER_03

Um, it was I felt very ambivalent. I very much was uncomfortable with how limbo-like it was. I don't know that I necessarily I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop for sure. Yeah, I don't know that that necessarily colored how I felt about her, but I I probably was kind of like, well, I don't want to get too attached because who knows what's gonna happen with this chick. So yeah, I remember the limbo being very um uncomfortable, yeah. Uh, because it's an unknown quantity, right? Like we're already obviously so attached to Carl and Donut, we don't want anything to endanger them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So uh interesting, you touched on the donut helping her versus Carl helping her. Um which who do you think did it better? Do you think Carl's help is better or donuts' help is better?

SPEAKER_01

I I mean, surprise, I prefer Carl. But I feel like donuts is personal. We know you're not cool enough, you're not interesting enough. Here, put on this mohawk. I need you to wear these ridiculous boots, like that kind of thing. It feels more personal to me. I need you to look differently. Whereas Carl is like, I want you to survive. I'm gonna give you the tools you need to survive. I'm gonna think about these problems that we have based on your build and solve them for you. Even though he's a little rougher around the edges with his delivery, I think that what he is doing is kinder.

SPEAKER_03

I agree. And I think that it's fun that Donut calls him out, right? For just telling her what to do when Donut, in fact, is doing the same thing. I will say that I was, even though I understand that that's Donut's strong suit, I was more put off by Donuts version of helping, not because it was more personal, but because it was so superficial. Like, and I understand superficial is the name of the game, uh, but it's so like anathema to me as a person to be like, let's jazz you up for the audience. That is right, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Although I did like the um uh Katya's like for science wink, like her personality started like coming out slightly, and I don't know if that was because she was told that she was boring and needed to be more exciting, or because she was warming up to Carl and Donut. And I think it might have been both, but if I had to put more eggs in a certain basket, it would be the latter.

Grief, Trauma, And AI Memory Pokes

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we had one of the first real, for me at least, one of the first real um feels moments for me in the this half of this book, which was the final message from Brandon. So I remember the first time I read this and just being kind of sideswiped and a little gutted, like, oh god, that's so horrible. Um, yeah. How was it for you? Like, how invested? So Meadowlark, we haven't really been with them a lot. Um, yeah, did it did it hit you?

SPEAKER_01

Not super hard. It I was like, oh, but at the same time, it would felt inevitable. And I was proud of him for surviving that long, but I didn't expect him to survive. Yeah. I don't know. It was it was sad. I think the worst part about it was how it hit Carl and how it was just like really rough for him and took him a while to hit the reset button from. Um, but yeah, I'd say this the probably the most emotional part for me. Gosh. It might have been well, there's two. Okay, so whenever Donut ended up getting the skull next to her name, and she was just like really freaked out. Yeah, she was really freaked out by it and really sad, and just constantly like, I'm so I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Like, I could really not that I could relate to her being like like that, but you know, there are moments where you're just overwhelmed and you just can't help but repeat things and apologize, even if it's not necessarily your fault. That's that was that was really relatable to me. And then the scene with the motorcycle where Carl had another one of his asides where he's like, Oh my god, is that my dad's motorcycle that I damaged that one day? And then, oh my gosh, I'm realizing in the moment that my dad abused me. Like that kind of stuff was like, Jesus, that's intense. Um, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

There was um there was a moment that I had uh for that, and then later on in this part of the read where he has the flashback to the Grand Canyon, yeah. Um, and I don't remember having this thought on my first read through, and so this is this is a pure thought, like there's no spoiler aspect to it. I in this moment this time around, I was like, we know the AI can get in there and see their memories, and I can't help but wonder if there is some aspect of because it's so noticeable when he gets these flashbacks, these very vivid flashbacks. And some of it is clearly intentional, they're sending him stuff, and others stuff is less so. So with the Grand Canyon flashback, there was no like trip down Memory Lee Lane to trigger all of these memories, he's just standing there in front of all these portals, and for some reason it made him think of the Grand Canyon. And so I found myself wondering if that is AI induced in some way. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I forgot that those two were separate, those two recollections. But yeah, no, that was another. I think every time Carl like realizes that his life was actually kind of messed up, then that hits me a little harder.

SPEAKER_03

And he you hear it in his inner monologue, right? Like, oh, okay, so they're gonna they're you know, that's the tool toolkit that I had. And he's being very transparent. Like, I know that they are trying to get me, they're trying to get my thoughts, they're trying to get a rise out of me in some way, get a specific reaction. And much like me, he's like, I'm not interested in feeding into whatever reaction it is you think you want. Yeah. Um, but then like the Grand Canyon one happened, and I was like, are they being poked or prodded in some way to have these kinds of things happen in those moments?

SPEAKER_01

That would be interesting. And since the AI has access to it, yeah. I mean, it would be very reality TV, you know, juicy for them to like show, like if they could show the memories on the screen or something, you know? Yeah, that would be wild. Wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So from a different, instead of dealing with the AI, he got an upgrade from the Valte Corporation. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Did you think it was gonna be a brain worm?

SPEAKER_01

I was worried. I was worried until he put it into his inventory and took it back out. And I was like, okay, I understand that that's your tet, like living things die in the end. Okay, okay, okay. It should be okay. But no, at first, yes, I 100% was like he's gonna get a brain worm here.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

And uh, you know, the chekov's gone of it all. He he got a thing that let him see portals. Uh, you know, to that end, we could talk about just our sponsors in general, right? Like it's so interesting who we got for sponsors.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it feels very corporate intrigue, feels very sneaky, does feel like maybe that puts a target on Carl's back. He didn't seem super worried about it, but I was a little worried about it.

SPEAKER_03

At this point, at this point in the story, I have no idea who's winning between Valte and Borant.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

You know what I mean? Like I am just sitting there going, are we literally just tug of war ropes between these two corporate entities?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I guess I don't know, except for that we know the borant is like running out of money because they're the ones running it, right?

SPEAKER_03

So, like the question is But they still technically have it.

SPEAKER_01

They still yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03

Technically, so yeah, it's just this thing like that, it's those layers that this game is existing on, and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, plus you can't trust a corporation, you know. There's like golden parachutes, god knows what spacey nonsense they could do to save themselves.

Mordecai’s Mistake And Going Solo

SPEAKER_03

You scale it up on a galactic level, right? Um, so I will say that there was another moment in this part of the read that I liked. Um I liked that Mordecai made a mistake. So I am talking about that moment where Carl gets his prize and it uh triggers like this Wheel of Fortune-esque game or spin the wheel kind of game, and it brings out Taco, and Mordecai loses his mind and gets timed out. And I really like that because Mordecai has almost for me at least, has almost been too perfect. Like he's such a good resource uh that I liked that he messed up and got booted.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So we saw him have a flaw in the first second, whenever he was like he initially, yeah, he was a drunk, right? He was getting drunk and wasted, super wasted, sloppy. So we knew that he was flawed, but after that, he really cleaned up his act, as you said, and was just perfect, making the potions, explaining things, apparently figuring out the train system, all of that stuff. Yeah. So I I tend to agree. I think he was he was and Carl said this, they were relying on him too much, but you would too, like if you had him as a resource. But I do appreciate the fact that in this book they took him away from Carl and Donut so that they could try to thrive on their own and solve their own problems. I found myself kind of forgetting to like look at my clock and figure out how long it was until Mordecai came back because they're just they're doing it themselves, right? And and I don't at this point, like we stopped at chapter 17. I'm not sure how many days I can't even remember how many days we have left or or what that means for how many days we have until Mordecai comes back because I'm just so in the story that yeah, Mordecai's absence.

SPEAKER_03

I'm not sure how many days have lapsed, but I if I remember correctly when we read it, he comes back with like a day to spare.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, they said it was seven days, so it would have been it's close, it's really close. Like I think they said, you know, a little more than 24 hours or 36 hours or something like that, that he's gonna be back. So, you know, yeah, I don't know how close we are, but it's it's intense. But I think they're doing a really good job without him, honestly.

SPEAKER_03

I do too. It was a good reminder. We had uh donut there towards the end of this first half saying, you know, had gotten something. I don't even remember what it was. And Carl was like, You gotta wait. Mordecai had something you wanted to do with it. Well, Mordecai's not here, yeah. Good reminder.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_03

Good reminder at this point. Life life carries on, the level carries on.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yep, yep, agreed.

SPEAKER_03

Um, what did I have? Uh I feel like I've mentioned this in every read for Dungeon Crawler. Uh, I feel like for each half we see an expansion of some kind, and I feel like the expansion for this half of the book was the crawler network. So we see a lot more crawlers and we see um information sharing taking place. And I think that that's awesome. And I wonder, I remember wondering it the first time around like, is that the exception rather than the rule? You know, because we've already dealt with, I don't know, was it in in book one, we dealt with like Frank and Maggie Mai and how humans can be really terrible anyways. Yeah, which we already know as humans existing in the world. Um it was nice, it's nice, it's a nice little seed of hope, right? To see um, and it came from Carl, which is obviously amazing that he is fostering them and encouraging them to do their fist bumps and to share information across all call crawlers. Um yeah, yeah. So I just thought it was neat. Like sometimes it's world building that we're seeing expanding. Sometimes it's, you know, we saw, I feel like last time I was like, oh yeah, we're seeing more races from other parts of the world, galaxy. Um, and this time it was like still expansion, but this time with the crawler network being kind of more fleshed out and starting to meet some of those other people who have made it this far.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would think that you know, once they released the leaderboard and the bounties, I immediately my the my hackles rose. I was I, you know, I developed trust issues. If I didn't already have them, I thought Carl and Donut aren't allowed to talk to anybody, they need to keep their distance, like because in my mind it it feels because I'm reading it, it's a lit RPG, it feels somewhat like a video game, right? And so, like, I know people are just jerks in video games, and they will like even if it's if you could be co-op, some people will shoot you anyways, right? And like that stuff, I know these are real, real people in you know, they're supposed to be humans from Earth's surface, and not all humans are murderers, but put in this situation, you never know what people are gonna do, and so you know, and it as evidenced by somebody trying to assassinate Donut. That's what I expected to happen. The fact that we're creating this network of people helping one another, you're right, is is something that is really heartwarming in this context, and I I'm loving to see it. Also, uh revisiting, oh my gosh, what's her name? Mrs. McGibbons. Yes, Ellie. Ellie, yeah, she's like she's hilarious. I I appreciate the fact that she came back better than ever. Um, and that she's like, you messed with them, you mess with all of us, like all that stuff. Like, I appreciate it. Just as sassy. The community of it all. I did really like to see it. And and you mentioned, you know, the network is obviously an expansion, but the book, Dungeon Anarchist Cookbook, gave us more insight into past crawls, the resistance as a whole. And we also got a glimpse into past crawls with the with the Mordecai situation, like a brief glimpse into his and this is more than that.

The Dungeon Anarchist’s Cookbook Appears

SPEAKER_03

So let's get into it. I wanted to talk about the titular book that started it all, as it were. Um how did you feel about the reveal of the book, Carl picking the book? How how did that go for you? What did you think while you're reading it? Were you like, what the hell are you doing, Carl?

SPEAKER_01

No, I mean, given the title of the book, there's some things that I'm like, okay, the title of the book and the covers of the book sometimes, or at least the digital covers, I'm always like, when is this gonna show up? Um and uh and so the moment I saw it had the anarchy symbol on it, I was like, Well, that's the one. But then also they really telegraphed it with the shiny, the glint of light again. That's still a video game, right? You knew we all knew. So it was interesting because of course the chot, the chopper, the motorcycle was probably, you know, it would have been tempting if it wasn't traumatic. Um, and you know, there's there's several of the options were very good. Um, but it was interesting that they were like trying to trick him into taking his toolkit, his tool case, um, or whatever, uh whatever it was called, tool.

SPEAKER_00

What was it?

SPEAKER_01

Not toolbox. Toolbox, yeah, the big toolbox. Um so yeah, it was inevitable, but it was it was it was funny the way they had it covered, right? It's a cookbook, like the for chickens and goblins, and uh and then the moment he started reading it, I was like, let's go. Okay, we're starting to get good here.

SPEAKER_03

So one thing that I picked up on this time around that I don't think I did first time around, and I'm wondering if you noticed it. Uh the AI knows that the cookbook exists. So when he was going through that and getting those instructions, he's gotta hide it from the viewers and from everybody else, but the AI does in fact know that the book exists. And that feels like a hugely important note. Like let's put a star next to that. That seems like that might matter later.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I mean, I even though the AI is a bit of a perv, yeah, I like the AI in some ways, especially because it rages against the machine in in kind of an anarchist way, right? It does. Carl and Donut and all of those people who were in that group quest got their incredible celestial boxes taken away. And so you know what the AI is gonna do? Rob the Bourne Corporation of an F ton of money, hit them where it hurts, and help the crawlers who got screwed. Like it's it's giving chaotic good.

SPEAKER_03

I I don't know. Oh, I don't know about that. I think what it's giving to me at least, it's giving you don't get to tell me what to do. You're not my real dad.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe chaotic neutral, but I appreciate I appreciate the AI in some ways. Not the perf, but the rest of it.

SPEAKER_03

There are other things. I I feel the same way. There are times where I really, really like the AI um in spite of myself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_03

Um what was I just gonna say? Shoot, I lost it. Uh, how did you feel about the little hints that we saw in the times that he was able to read the book, you know, mentions of past crawlers and stuff. What did you think generally about that information? I know it's early days with the cookbook still.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I thought it was, you know, as far as like you, there are backpacks. That stuff was kind of like, okay, whatever. Like, interesting that Carl's using this information to help with their cause. But the more compelling stuff, I think, was the like death to the snakes and the really intense like hatred that these crawlers had for their situation and the people who put them as in this situation. And I appreciated that in order to get the cookbook in the first place, you had to meet several criteria, which I don't believe we have been told. Yep. Yeah. And so to me, it's like Carl is in this club now, and all of these people are like-minded. And Carl has been like minded like this since the beginning, right? You will not break me. He's playing the game, he's he's encouraging sedition, right? And it just I just like to see the passion of the previous crawlers.

SPEAKER_03

I like that uh one of the downsides is this is a secret. Um it's so it adds another layer of stakes, right? Because it's another thing that he has to keep his cards closed. He can't tell anybody, not even donut. Um, so you know, when he wants to. Uh use that information. He has to be covert about it and find ways to keep it hidden. Um you have to become an actor. Yes. And uh, but it's just another lap added layer of stakes, which we've pointed out in every successive episode, is one more plane on which Carl is functioning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I feel like we're really beyond 3D chess at this point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure.

Portals, Trains, And The Pit

SPEAKER_03

Um, so realistically, uh, do you have where did we leave off? So we left off with the portals. So you want to talk about the portals? Do you want to talk about what we think might be coming for us in the back half of this book?

SPEAKER_01

Sure, sure. Let's talk about the portals. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

So I get really confused, which I can't visualize. Um, but it sounds like, you know, when he did go through there, that it's basically just a big cavernous room. I'm thinking something like a la the Marvel Universe with a bunch of portals. Oh, yeah, and all of these trains just going through, and there's just a big crater in the middle, and a bunch of crap falling into it, and all kinds of mobs and bad guys down there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that sounds right to me. Kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_01

And I feel like, I feel like to the extent that we're going to find a dragon in this book, that's where the dragon would be hanging out. In the pit. In the pit seems likely. Yeah, yeah. But it was interesting to me because, like, you know, ultimately things get recycled, the same shit shows up, you know, like is it getting 3D printed? Like, if it's all going to the bottom of this pit, how are these?

SPEAKER_03

That reminds me so like Vernon. We didn't talk about Vernon and his wife. Vernon and his wife from chapters five and six kind of got got me in my feels a little bit. So Vernon kept finding money, like his money kept replicating, his picture kept replicating of his wife every time. And so he thought he, you know, was gonna maximize this glitch. Do you think Vernon's wife is real?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think so. No, I don't think so. In the same way that like the HR lady's apartment isn't real, you know. I don't think any of it's real. Which speaking of Vernon, though, it's I feel like if I had a nickel for every time somebody who was pretty helpful died a terrible death in in this book, I'd have two nickels, right? Because Vernon got destroyed by fire ants, if I'm recalling correctly. And then the I can't remember who it was, but the like dwarf, so whoever it was that helped them in the final like series of chapters that we read. Like, okay, I'm gonna hook you up and then we'll rotate the line and then I'll jump back on the train, like that guy, and then he also gets terminated. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So yeah, being a helpful NPC does not pay.

SPEAKER_01

No, it really doesn't.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that was a bummer. It's all kind of a bummer, but it's interesting because I think last episode we talked about the nature of the NPCs and how, you know, the spell, right? This multi-tiered spell that was being cast, and how it like, you know, had to go back centuries. It was like, okay, is this like real or is this just the story that's going on? You know, and I guess we technically don't know, but all signs are pointing to no, this is just backstory.

SPEAKER_03

Right. But it doesn't make it any less heartbreaking, right? Like poor Vernon.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, he believes it, and that's he kind of what matters. It's not that the fact that she doesn't exist is sad, but the fact that he believes it and she doesn't exist is sadder.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that was uh because I I know we talked about that last time, and and then I was like, oh Vernon, I forgot what a good example you are.

unknown

Yeah.

Favorite Moments, Baddies, MVP Picks

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So well, I don't have much else in the way of notes uh other than just a prompt. Did you have any fave moments or fave thoughts from the first half?

SPEAKER_01

Um gosh. I think uh it's gonna like it's gonna okay. So uh I'll just say this now, even though I think it'll fit in future segments, but I thought it was brilliant Carl's use of his protective shell spell with the trains passing by. He's like it it becomes a smoosh spell that he just absolutely obliterates these trains with. Um that was and he figured that out so quickly that I just like you know, I gotta respect where respect is due, honestly. Oh, and the fact that, and this will lead into my favorite um baddie, but the fact that donut um donut gets the whole spell and she's like, this spell sucks. And then they start practicing with it. She's like, this spell's amazing. Yes. I thought that was uh pretty delightful, honestly. Oh, and the spell for Mongo, which to me also seemed absurd. Like, never in your life are you gonna write a Velociraptor. Oh, okay, I did notice something. So people in our comments and stuff on here, and if you ever have thoughts like this, please share them in the comments on YouTube or on Discord or whatever. But somebody mentioned um in our past episode or another episode, how there's so many references to movies that are just like little nods, little nods to movies. And in this case, whenever they got their personal space, Mongo jumped up on the like stainless steel countertop and clapped his claws. Yes, Jurassic Park. Oh my god, that yeah. So I don't know. I sometimes when I'm reading, I just gonna like breeze through them and I'm I don't really think about it that hard, but that one like pinged me. I was like, oh my gosh, direct Jurassic Park reference. I can see the scene in the movie.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I need to meet this man. I'm like, I feel like his target demographic, I really do. So I'm like, you are speaking directly to me when you do these things.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03

Uh yeah, no, I just wanted to give you an option to call out any of your most notables. Uh the the Iron Tangle is really hard for me. Um even just getting to this first half, and I was like, yep, this is about where I glazed over and stopped trying.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

It doesn't even matter. They're all going to like a pit in a hole somewhere. So I don't know which ones are getting recycled. I don't know which ones are getting destroyed and left in the pit. I don't know. I don't know. And the author told me I don't have to care, so I don't care. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I it's interesting reading a, I mean, it's a lit RPG technically, but it's very, very fantasy coded. And you know, obviously there's some sci-fi-ish stuff in there too. But getting to a book that's just trains, it's surprising, but he has done this every book so far. It's completely changed the game, which makes it stay fresh and exciting. So despite the fact that I was like, trains, it's been really fun.

SPEAKER_03

So and he still finds ways to make it absurd and heartfelt and gross and funny.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yeah. Props to the author once again.

SPEAKER_03

He's hitting all those notes.

SPEAKER_01

He is.

SPEAKER_03

So for me, I was gonna go into our fave baddies, and I have I have two. Okay. It was really hard for me to choose. One's one's just gross, one is ridiculous. Okay. So I'm I'm gonna I first wrote down the cornets, the like naked rabbit things with the sound attack.

SPEAKER_01

Because those are I can picture them as well.

SPEAKER_03

They're horrifying.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

They're horrifying. So I had picked them as my fave baddie because they make my skin crawl.

SPEAKER_01

Fair.

SPEAKER_03

Um but then the slightly more funny one is Gorgor the Mantor.

SPEAKER_01

I'm glad you picked him.

unknown

What the hell? What are you?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, he's headed to Valhalla.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. He is so many, so many things at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of things. Um, I did appreciate how he went to the club and he came back out and he was like, betrayers! Yes. He was a lot, he was a lot. Also, the the fact that finally we got to see Carl's like activation of the god, and it was like, oh god, we have to finish this guy. Shut it down, shut it down. Yeah, yeah, that was really good. So I guess since you pick two, I'll pick two. Um, one of them was because I appreciated finally the activation of Carl's uh trap notification and the fact that donuts. Sure, you want to do that? Yeah, no, like was just a bunch of fire ants, which was horrifying. So they intersected with your your demon bunnies or whatever by destroying them. Um yeah, that's like my nightmare, just swarming ants, like horrible, horrible. But I think the my favorite batty, and it's only because of the way that they died, was that death mage, blood mage, whatever it was. Um, just because they used the hole. Yeah, yanked his head through the hole. Like, of course, there's no way you can practice that. I think Carl, you know, Katya's like, we've never practiced that. And he's like, How would we practice that? So yeah, they yanked the war mage's head through the hole and decapitate him. And then Carl picks the head up, which I thought was it it did when it said that he did that in the book. I was like, uh what? Because he'd never done that before. Um, and then I thought it was funny that they spun him. I mean, they didn't even really need to spin him, honestly. Um, and they showed it on the recap, yeah. Making him look like an absolute like unhinged psychopath. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But and we've heard a couple of different crawlers say, Oh, you're not as crazy as I thought you were.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

We've heard that a couple of times. He is absolutely being portrayed as a complete maniac.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, which is funny, but then every time he interacts with other crawlers, he's such a wholesome leader that it's you know, you can't help but love him. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So that's what I'll uh so that was War Mage, right? Oh, the fire ants and the warmage, got you. The fire ants trapped in the warmage, and then so this isn't fave baddie, but I had forgotten that AI took credit for the baba boons.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I forgot about the baba baboons.

SPEAKER_03

So I, you know, the baboons, the baba baboons, however many babas there are in there, uh, you know, kind of weird, off-putting wild. Uh, and they're waiting for them when they come out of the safe room. Uh the voiceover of the AI going, yeah, I'm pretty proud of those. I was like, dude, it's weird.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So just a little more AI humor.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh. Yeah, we usually hate AI, but in this case, he's yeah, it's got some redeeming qualities. Also some drawbacks for sure.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, he's problematic in his own way. So you know that that leads us to our runner-up and our MVP.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm. It sure does. You wanna go first?

SPEAKER_02

Um, sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um, so I do not have notes. I have not picked. I have gone back and forth all day.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I know who my MVP is gonna be. I don't know who my runner up is gonna be. Sure.

SPEAKER_03

Uh I I know who my runner-up is.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, well then go for it, and then I'll I'm deciding.

SPEAKER_03

My runner-up is Brandy, the fire demon in the furnace.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yep.

SPEAKER_03

Because without her, they would be dead in the water. Like that train would have blown to Bitsy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, okay. I appreciate that. Yep. I think I'm going to pick. I think I'm gonna pick Vernon because he gave them a lot of information.

SPEAKER_02

He really did.

SPEAKER_01

He gave them a lot of information and he tugged on the heartstrings a little bit, and then he died. So, shout out to Vernon.

SPEAKER_02

He was a good egg.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he was the conductor, right? Because the engineers are the bad ones.

SPEAKER_03

Or what was the engineers and the mantars. Yeah, I think he's the conductor. I think you're right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Pour one out for the conductor, everyone.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So, okay, so for MVP.

SPEAKER_01

You want me to go? Yes. Okay, I'm picking Carl. I mean, Mr. Leadership Extraordinaire. He started the movement. He's, you know, he's linking up with people left and right. Um, he saved the bodyguards from possible annihilation, right? By being like, I want them to be our bodyguards every time we come to the club, right? Who would have thought of that?

SPEAKER_03

Honestly. We didn't talk about Bowman the Sledge, and we totally should have.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. They were the fact that Donut was like slow dancing with stuff was really, really cute. Um, and then like from then on, they were doing them favors and whatnot because obviously they Carl saved their butts. Um it was Carl is just the best, right? He's he's he met up with Ellie and obviously the stuff with Brandon was sad. Um he's he's interfacing with uh oh my gosh, Batista. He he hijacked the train after getting hit by it. There's so much that Carl does this episode. The episode that yeah, this episode that, you know, it's just most valuable. And I it's hard for me to it would be hard for me to pick anybody else for that.

SPEAKER_03

Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat. Like I want so badly to pick somebody other than Carl, and it's nothing against Carl. I just he shouldn't take MVP so many times in a row.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but he is.

SPEAKER_03

He is crazy. So again, for this half of this book, the the stuff about the crawler network and initiating the fist bumps and making sure that there's dissemination of information broadly so that folks have a chance to actually find their nearest stairwells. And you know, uh they're in the process of actively trying to problem solve what to do about the people who are stranded without trains because Quan CH is being a you know, a you know what, off in the space and ruining it for other people and being selfish. So yeah, he just continues to be that guy.

SPEAKER_01

He is that guy. Love me some Carl.

SPEAKER_03

So, yeah, Carl again, Carl again. If we do this into book four, we might have to pick a rule where we give one book where it can't be Carl.

SPEAKER_01

But would that be real life?

Next Release Date And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_03

Okay, we're gonna take that conversation offline. Okay, okay. Well, so that's it for tonight's episode of Butt Are There Dragons. Um, we are gonna be finishing the Dungeon Anarchist Cookbook, uh, book three, and that episode will drop for you on April 28th. So, with that, we would like to say thank you so much for tuning in to our fifth episode of season five of Butt Are There Dragons, brought to you by your hosts, Jessica Sadai and Critter XD. Please don't forget to follow us at Butt Are Their Dragons on YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and Butt Dragons Pod, just one T on X. You can also find your hosts on social media as CritterXD and Shelf Indulgence. That's it for us today. New achievement: Royal Court of Princess Donut Wannabe. You've witnessed the princess don two crowns to your big zilch, which is not fair. I do have crowns. But you wish you were as cool as her royal highness. Reward? You get to keep reading about the most beautiful cat in all the land by finishing Dungeon Anarchist Cookbook.

SPEAKER_01

Bye.

SPEAKER_03

Bye.

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Jessica

Co-host
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Kritter XD

Co-host