Have you ever felt a stirring of hope while watching a beloved film or found inspiration from an unexpected encounter? This episode takes you on an intimate expedition into the essence of hope in our lives and its profound presence in entertainment. Flying solo without Lindsay, I'm joined by the insightful Kurt Davis from Black Daddies in Space. He shares his film expertise as we discuss the magic of movies like E.T. in moving our spirits and connecting us in ways that transcend our individual experiences.
As we unfold the layers of what success truly entails, we consider the impact of our work, the power of community, and the importance of recognizing our worth beyond comparison.
In an ever-evolving narrative, we examine the actionable nature of hope – how it's cultivated, the psychological underpinnings that propel us forward, and our communities' role in strengthening it. You'll hear about the routines and practices that keep hope burning brightly and how revisiting timeless films can re-ignite that hopeful spark within us all.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
Have you ever felt a stirring of hope while watching a beloved film or found inspiration from an unexpected encounter? This episode takes you on an intimate expedition into the essence of hope in our lives and its profound presence in entertainment. Flying solo without Lindsay, I'm joined by the insightful Kurt Davis from Black Daddies in Space. He shares his film expertise as we discuss the magic of movies like E.T. in moving our spirits and connecting us in ways that transcend our individual experiences.
As we unfold the layers of what success truly entails, we consider the impact of our work, the power of community, and the importance of recognizing our worth beyond comparison.
In an ever-evolving narrative, we examine the actionable nature of hope – how it's cultivated, the psychological underpinnings that propel us forward, and our communities' role in strengthening it. You'll hear about the routines and practices that keep hope burning brightly and how revisiting timeless films can re-ignite that hopeful spark within us all.
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Cleveland and Lindsay is not with us this weekend, so we are going to consider it of the bonus episode. Lindsay is once again living her best life in Key West Florida. We just got back from Naples, but it's one of her friends 50th birthday, so she went out there to celebrate and libate If you know what the word libate means I think I just made that up as in libations. So this week I am joined with one of my partners from one of my other podcasts, which I haven't been on for the last couple of months, but I will be returning this week. It's a podcast called Black Daddies in Space. It is on the Harlem Filmhouse network and I am joined by one of my co-hosts on that show, kurt Davis, aka Black Daddy Sunshine. So welcome, kurt, to the show, welcome to the devil, you don't know. And this week's topic we are going to talk about hope. But before we begin, kurt, tell me how to introduce yourself and tell the audience a little bit about yourself.
Kurt Davis:Okay, first off, thank you so much for inviting me. Cleveland is one of my favorite people. We were hooked up by a mutual friend because we are both Blurreds, black Nerds living in that world, and it is true, our interests are very similar. My biggest passion is film, and specifically, film recommendations. I really can sell anything that I believe in, and there are literally hundreds of films that I could promote. I have a YouTube channel called Mr Kurt Loves Movies. Full disclosure I've been a little on hiatus while I've been focusing on the job that pays me money and gives me insurance, but I will be returning soon, working on some new content, and it's basically all raves, no rants.
Cleveland Oakes:What I can say is I recently wrote Kurt a review that was so good that Kurt actually reached out to me and was like bro, bro, is this real? Is this really you? But I have watched a bunch of Kurt's videos and they are good. They're good If you are a film noir or a film buff person. Kurt didn't mean to cut you off, but I just wanted to just shout your praise real quick. It is good stuff, but go ahead, continue to talk about your content.
Kurt Davis:I really appreciate it and it's every kind of genre and it's a wide range of stuff. The episodes are short form videos in a series called the Skinny on the Good Stuff If you have a short attention span or you want to watch something fun in the bathroom and you're waiting online at the bank. And then there are long form episodes called Mr Kurt's Rave Reviews. And, yeah, yeah, it's up and running and I'm always surprised when it continues to get used because it functions on word of mouth. I honestly haven't done a lot of promotion, but I'm very proud of the videos that are there. No, it's always surprised which ones are the most popular.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, it's good stuff. What we're going to talk about today, like I said, the topic is hope, and I am a big fan of hope when I think about cinema, right, some of the best cinema that I've ever seen are movies that bring me to the depths of despair. I'm thinking about ET, right? Remember watching ET as a little kid, and there's the part where ET dies and it's like whoa, what is going to happen next? And then you just have that hope and then that moment when you see ET's heartlight come back on and I can hear Neil Diamond turn on your heartlight.
Cleveland Oakes:Shine wherever you go. I'm not going to sing it. I'm not going to sing it, but definitely I do find and I just want to start there like in cinema and art, I find hope there. So let's start there and let's talk about why hope is important and why hope and entertainment is important.
Kurt Davis:Well, you know what? One of the things that Roger Ebert said about movies is that movies are empathy machines. They create and expand empathy, and I think that tickles the same muscle that hope grows from. If you can have empathy for the people around you and empathy for yourself, even by realizing you're not alone and the things you're struggling through are things that people around the world, in every culture, have struggled with, then it can really give you hope. I've always said and this is one of the reasons why, the two reasons why, when you said this was going to be the topic, I was like bet I'm on, let's do it.
Kurt Davis:One is that I've always said that hope is the single most important human experience, because without it, there's not the juice, the engine, to keep going and to do much of anything else. You know, it pulls you out of despair, it helps you heal a broken heart, it makes you open to love again, and we are as people, we are so driven to hope. When you think of the divorce rates, how high they are, it doesn't change the fact that everyone squeals. Every woman squeals when their girlfriend shows them an engagement, everyone goes to a wedding filled with hope. We can talk about how the world is filled with horrible people. But every time somebody announces a pregnancy it's a celebration, because there's that hope that something could be different, something could be better.
Kurt Davis:And the other reason why I thought Cleveland this is a great topic, I'd love to discuss it it's not because I've mastered the art of hope, but because it's definitely something that I continue to struggle and I think it's important that we talk about that struggle. I think it's important that people you know they step down from their social media platforms and all of the happy pictures and all of the huggy pictures and talk about the struggle. It can definitely be a struggle, it waxes and wanes, but it's important and it's definitely a North Star that I try and go to.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, I think that's important because I wanted to look. I'm going to read the definition of hope real quick. Is that? Hope is a feeling of optimism that is based on the expectation of positive outcomes, and it is also defined as the desire for things to become better. And as to your point, kurt, without hope there's no point to anything.
Cleveland Oakes:Some of the movies that I could think about in my life that I haven't enjoyed are movies that are just bleak in meandering, or books that are bleak and meandering and just have no hope, have no hope. And so, especially when we look at society today and we look at what's going on in the world today, there is this tendency and I have a colleague that I work with that's like you know, this is always how it's going to be, is not going to get any better, and I just don't agree with that way of being. Now, that being said, as you to your point, it's sometimes it's hard to be hopeful, right? You go look in that bank account. It depends on your circumstance. You get that bag diagnosis from your doctor and it's really hard to be hopeful.
Kurt Davis:But it's our doom scrolling which, I have to confess, I am often guilty of.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, and for those of us that don't know what doom scrolling is, kurt, tell the audience. Or, as the professor told you earlier today, google it.
Kurt Davis:The professor is one of our, our colleagues in the host of the podcast that we're on. Yeah, now, I forgot the question.
Cleveland Oakes:Oh, I was just asked you. I think I'm gonna have to put that now. Now I'm gonna have to edit. I didn't want to edit anything, but I'm gonna have to edit. But it's fine.
Kurt Davis:What did we just say?
Cleveland Oakes:Um, this is what happens when two. Now I'm not going to edit it.
Kurt Davis:Oh, oh, doom scrolling. What is doom?
Cleveland Oakes:scrolling. I'm not going to edit it because I want the audience to see what happens when two men over forty five sit down, drink bourbon and have a conversation on hope. But yes, you were talking about doom scrolling and and yeah, tell what it is. Yeah, tell the audience what is doom scrolling exactly?
Kurt Davis:Doom scrolling is when you get on your phone and you literally go from one upsetting story to another, and then you can start off with the N word slinging Karen, or it might go on to some police brutality, and then it might go on to some shooting it, then it goes on to what's how the world is imploding politically. It's just you, just you get into a loop and if you're a fan of true crime shows, like I am, that's a real easy thing to do. Dateline now has a live feed where you could just go on there. Boom, and you're in the middle of a dateline story, you know, and soon as I hear it was a quiet town, like it was what happened there. I got to listen, I got to listen.
Kurt Davis:So, but that can be really. You know, we have to be smart about protecting our spirits and that just is not always the way to go. You know. Yes, not just a matter of putting down social media so we can stop comparing ourselves to each other, but also just putting down, sometimes, the news feed, because we're just not choosing in a way that's healthy.
Cleveland Oakes:Yes.
Kurt Davis:So that's what doing scrolling is.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, and it really takes away from this idea hope, right. So when you sit down and you do scroll, it's like oh, sinkhole just opened in Japan. Oh, there was this mugging in Central Park. Oh my God, there's the war in Israel. Oh my God, there's the war in Ukraine. Oh my God, Donald Trump, oh my God, Joe Biden, and it just all piles up and it piles up and it piles up and it buries you and you just lose sight of what is going on.
Cleveland Oakes:And, as and as you said, Kurt, hope is the juice, it is the sauce that gets us to move forward. In my notes I have there's a point like how is hope different from optimism? So I want to get your now. I have the answer, but I just want to attest you out, daddy sunshine, just to see, you know, because that's your name, that's the name on the other show, because he is very hopeful and optimistic person. You know, he says that it's something that he struggles with from time to time, which I think. I think it happens right. We get into a point in our career or point in our marriage or point in our life where it's like oh, what's going on here? But what is, in your opinion. What is the difference between hope and optimism?
Kurt Davis:You know what? I saw that in the show notes and I was like I've never thought of that question. So I'm going to answer it extemporaneously. This is completely off the cuff. I think the difference is one optimism tends to be informed by a perspective on one's experience, and hope doesn't need experience to exist. So I guess I would say optimism is a little bus is going to come, because or I'm going to get a raise this year, because I've worked at this company for 10 years and I get a raise every year. I don't know how much it is, but I'm optimistic It'll be good because it's generally good.
Kurt Davis:Hope is I'm going to be an astronaut. Now, there's foolish hope, there's false hope or there's just let's just be honest, they're just silliness where it's just like you know, if I want to be an astronaut, but you know all of my grades and science and math are in the, in the, in the dumpster, then that's not hope, that's just, that's just daydreaming. And fantasy and fantasy has its place, but not if it gets you mired into something that have absolutely positively no shot at. So that's that. That would be my, my guess.
Cleveland Oakes:That is how I would define and that is why you're daddy sunshine, because you are absolutely right. So, according to research, hope it means that you have to put the work in right up and you hit the nail on the head. There is a, there's a paper by the National. I'm going to look it up. I'm going to actually hit pause for a second so that I can look it up and get it, get it right. So hold on one second.
Cleveland Oakes:Yes, interesting that you talked about false hope, because there is an actual scientific study in the National Library of Medicine, that is, that is written by Bert Mishanga, that talks about is there a problem with false hope? And so, basically, what false hope is is is foolishness? Right, it is, it is an actual thing and it is. It is as you said. It is like want to be an astronaut, but then you don't do anything that you need to do to be an astronaut. You don't put the work in, whereas hope itself is. I understand, yes, I want to be an astronaut, I want to be rich, but you understand that there is work that goes with it and it goes to show, as you said, kurt, earlier, that hope is the fuel that should fuel you, but what would you? But then, as you said in your own example, I want to go back to you in your own experience, and you said that hope is something that you struggle with at times. So give us an example of when you struggle with hope and then what have you done to overcome it?
Kurt Davis:Okay, well, it's an ongoing struggle. I will tell you that one of the things that I do in my professional career I'm a media producer and sometimes I'll start a project or a project will be put in front of me and I, honestly, will feel like I'm doing a project for the first time, even though I've been in the business, you know, for decades and you know, done well for myself. But sometimes when I feel like I don't know how this is going to go, this is this is a somewhat of a superficial example, but I'll stop and I'll remember oh wait, the same person who did that other project that did really well and won awards. That same person is working on this project you're worried about. So move forward.
Kurt Davis:When it comes to comparing myself to others, that's where I often fall into trouble, because I've been around a long time, had a lot of peers and some of them have gone on to enormous success, not just creatively but financially. I haven't been one to really chase the finance. I've been one of those artists who who's always been about the experience and wanting to have a great experience and surround myself with a good, you know family community. But you know, those type of people don't tend to be seen as super ambitious, and so I've had some friends who've been super ambitious, and while I've created a ton of content, you know they've taken a different path, and sometimes, when I see how they're doing or I hear how much money they're making, or you know that their bonus is half my yearly salary I'm just like, wow, what kind of choices have I made? And does this mean that I'm, by comparison, a failure? Now I have an anecdote that I wanted to share with you that really spoke to this.
Kurt Davis:So, more than a decade out of film school, I decided I wanted to make a short film. I hadn't made a short film since I'd shot a lot of content. I've worked, I'd worked a lot, I had a lot of stuff to show for my work, but I hadn't made something for me and I wanted to do an original project. I'm a twice option screenwriter, and so I wanted to write and I wanted to create, and so I came up with this humble little project. Now, this was around the time that digital photography was a new thing, so I borrowed a friend's prosumer camera and I went out on the street and the short film entailed a ton of B-roll. I figured I can shoot that solo while I sort of build it, while I fly it and I learned the digital technology as I go, and then I'll plug my actor in according to the script later. So I was out.
Kurt Davis:I was standing at 9th Avenue and 35th Street right in front of a diner that was right across the street from the dorm where my film school used to house us. And I remember going into film school. I went through freshman year film school. I never stopped smiling because I knew I'd wanted to go there in junior high school and I went in and I graduated with this hope, if you will, that seven years from now I'm going to be filming on the streets of Manhattan. There are going to be winter bagels down the street. There's going to be through buzzing back and forth. I'm going to be making my second feature.
Kurt Davis:And there I was, standing on this corner with a photographer's rickety tripod and a borrowed camera, with an umbrella, in the snow, getting a shot from my film across the street, from this dorm, where I had all these big dreams. And I tell you, even though I was glad that I was out there doing something, I don't think I'd ever felt like more of a loser in comparison to what I'd hoped for myself, when something really unexpected happened. A cab driver pulled over and he came over to me and I would say he was probably about maybe seven years my senior, not much and he said hi, I'm sorry, can I ask you, what are you doing? And I could hear the energy in his voice that it was positive. And I said, oh yeah, blah blah blah. Short film blah blah blah. He said really, wow, wow, that's great.
Kurt Davis:You know, I always wanted to be a photographer, but I just thought I was too old to go for it. I was like no man, look, this is my age. And da da, da da. You know you really should do it. I mean it's. You should do it for no other reason than just for yourself. And blah blah, blah blah.
Kurt Davis:And he started going back and forth telling me his story about how he gave up on it and now he's driving a cab to make a living, but he always thinks about it. And after our conversation he said he was going to revisit his photography. And I thought ain't that something? I'm sitting here feeling like a failure and this guy got inspiration from my example and I got inspiration from his Wow. And it was just one of those beautiful moments that just has stayed with me for life and I've never forgotten it. And and I didn't know that I was going to have the career that I have now, I didn't know that I'd be. You know, I don't. I don't like to do my own home, so I'm not going to quote how many awards or what awards I have, but you can quote this one.
Cleveland Oakes:I think in the pre show you talked about three Emmys that you are just.
Kurt Davis:Yes, I have three Emmys and I have OK, we'll go there. I have three Emmys and I have 12 Telly awards and I'm very proud of them and I'm very proud of the work that earned them. And I didn't know that, standing there in the snow that day with my little camera, nor did I know that the first time I screened the film and subsequent screenings that people would laugh heartily and cry at the end I mean audibly cry at the end. It was really just an amazing, amazing experience. But I had to keep pushing through with the hope that I was going to create something that had some effect on the world, that moved somebody's heart, that inspired them. And that day on the street, one of the earliest days of my shooting, it happened so organically and hope is contagious and that was a perfect example for me.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, that reminds me what you just said, reminds me of a book written by Charles R Snyder, which is the the call to psychology of hope. You can get there from here.
Cleveland Oakes:And what he talks about in that book is that hope is not and this is going to go back to what we talked about the difference between optimism and hope that Snyder says in the book that hope is a measurable trait.
Cleveland Oakes:It is not just some abstract concept, right, so it is not just like, well, I'm going to hope it happens, because no hope goes with action. So he defines hope as a cognitive process that is characterized by goal directed thinking. And in that interaction that you had with that cab driver, you both had goal directed thinking, right, and it's amazing how there's a scripture in the Bible that says iron sharpens iron, and what that means is that two people that are both headed on a goal together. You know, you come together, you sharpen each other, you go your own way. And it kind of goes back to this, which is the components of hope that Snyder talks about in the book, which is agency thinking, which is this refers to an individual's motivation to achieve their goals and involves the capacity to initiate the action toward that goal and in pathway thinking, which is about finding routes to meet those goals.
Kurt Davis:I think that's a great definition. I'd love to read that book, yeah, and I think it's also important and we talked about false hope to separate hope from fantasy, which is basically what we're talking about. If you're just you know, probably one of the most common fantasies that people have is that oh, you know, there's one out there for me, no, and they, they, they. We will eventually find each other. Both of those are false. Well, yeah, if it were, if it were that easy and that simple, then we would all be hooked up.
Kurt Davis:But it's not so if you're just going about your day to day world with an extremely small circle of friends, of contacts, none of whom you want to date, not like that at home, you know, it's one of those things where it is a hope that keeps a lot of people going, but sadly, without the work, like you said, without the effort, without putting yourself out there, Because being hopeful has so many levels of vulnerability one with yourself, One with yourself. I want this, and if I, what? What will I think of myself if I don't get it? And two, I'm going to tell someone how I'm going to feel if I don't get it after having told them, and then you know three also just going out there and you're not taking a risk, you're not reaching for something if there's no possibility that you can fall right. And that's really scary, especially if you're going to fall publicly.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, and I think it goes back to what you said earlier, that and I want to just go go back that hope powers, powers, that hope is an engine, that powers in an engine and in and in, and in.
Cleveland Oakes:That engine in itself goes back to power, hope, right.
Cleveland Oakes:And so the way hope should work is well, you should not, as you said, well, I hope there's somebody out there for me, or I'm just going to wait and find the one, but you should actively do things to attract the person that you want, right? Not just accept, not swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe forever. And then, oh, hopefully, this is the one, right, and the same thing with with work and with other things that hope, what it sounds like to me that hope takes action, and then that action should go back into hope and it should kind of be like this engine that goes around and around and then that, and if we are doing that correctly and if we're being hopeful, then that hope is contagious and like so you're this random kid on the street who thinks he's a loser because he's not where he's at. Somebody sees you doing that and and is inspired by you, and you brought that person hope and in that turn. That guy brought you back hope. Isn't that amazing and crazy at the same time.
Kurt Davis:I, I tell you it was it. I might have been discouraged that day and thought what am I doing? This is just, this is pathetic. You know, I don't even own this camera. But instead I took the lesson that that he walked away with. I was like, you know, keep going, keep going. And, funny enough, it didn't go on the direction that I expected, but it went in a direction that I didn't expect, which is not a bad thing.
Kurt Davis:I mean, I've been blessed in many ways, and I think that's another thing I want to talk about too, and this is this is this is so important. It's when when you, when you live with a hope in your heart for so long, you can really get stuck on what that outcome is supposed to look like. Right, I went back to my old high school for career day last year and I talked about this, and it's just like you know what we so often talk about, what the outcome should look like, and we rarely focus on the experience that we hope to have. When I was in high school, I hoped to direct talent. I hope to create content, I hope to move people with emotional storytelling and in my current career, even though I'm not making feature films.
Kurt Davis:I'm doing all of those things. So when I stop and I look back and I think, oh man, you know, I guess I'm not the next Steven Spielberg after all I am. I have been gifted with all of the things that I asked for and worked for and it's, it's really it's, it's a jackpot in terms of allowing me to use all of my strengths. I mean, like, I'm terrible at math, you know, I'm easily distractible, but they're creative boxes that I can take where. Look out, I'm just going to be a force of nature and those things keep me going while I question why I'm not great at so many other things. But I want to go back to something you just said.
Cleveland Oakes:You just said that you're not going to be the next Steven Spielberg. But to that random cab driver on the street you were, you are, and so even you just proved your own point that even if we, if we aren't where we think that we should be, are in life, right, but if we've been living hopeful lives, our lives are far better than someone who doesn't have hope. You know I you can't see us on. This is not a video podcast, but if you watch us on Black Daddies in Space, you will get to see us. But we are two African American men and we both. I come from the projects of Brooklyn, new York. Kurt comes from those mean streets of Connecticut.
Kurt Davis:No, no, actually I come from the wiles of suburbia in Long Island.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, my bad, my bad, the wilds, the wiles of suburbia. But we are people that if we do not remain hopeful as Black men and this is you know that the weight of the world could, could be on us, and it's just our nature to have to be hopeful. One of the things that Snyder says in that book is that hope, that people who are hopeful or high hope individuals tend to be more resilient. We had they handle stress I was going to say we, but I am a hopeful bastard they handle stress better and they are less likely to suffer from anxiety and depression.
Cleveland Oakes:I don't have a scientific survey, research right in front of me, but if you ever know, kurt, if you ever know anything about John McCain, scientists actually studied John McCain because he was a very hopeful person when he was in, when he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam.
Cleveland Oakes:He was tortured I don't remember how many years he he he was in prison At least three, at least three, I think it was and he was tortured every day and one of the things that that his torturers said was this is great, that he remained hopeful and he talked about that, that measure of hope even when he was, that he knew he was going to get out and he had the belief he was going to get out and even if he didn't get out he was going to keep his joy, he was going to keep his perseverance. But people who have hope and once again I want to say this is different than false hope, because hope means knows that you have to put the work in. Hope knows that there's a realistic solution. But people who have realistic hope tend to have better physical and mental health and have far more success in the things that they pursue in life. And that is just from the maintenance of hope.
Kurt Davis:Yeah, I would. I would imagine too that, just energetically the same way. You're not likely to have a good relationship if you're still embittered about your last relationship when you jump into the new relationship. You just carry yourself differently. You just have a different energy and energies draw energy, and that rarely. That sort of thing rarely works out. So if you come in with hope and optimism, people feel. They definitely feel, feel the energy.
Kurt Davis:I'm I'm a bit of an extrovert, former musical theater kid and so when I get around people it's one of the reasons why I'm so sunny on the podcast that we're both on Cleveland because I just love the company of people that I love and it just gives me life. And so I try and do that same thing with my clients and I have to say it pays off. I always say to my wife it's like for all the years that I've been at this company I haven't had a dud yet. I mean, people get a little funny and a little funky over email and sometimes over the phone like in a way, but face to face, you know I just it's been an incredible run. But I think a lot of that is in part. You know, I try to being a positive, even affectionate, energy to the work that I do and I trust it's going to work out and, as one of my creative directors used to say, it's it's only TV.
Kurt Davis:So I don't, I don't feel like the worst that can happen is that we have to reschedule the shoot, and that's never happened. Actually, that had to happen once when somebody I filmed the demonstration and found out from the client that the person to the demonstration should have been wearing gloves.
Cleveland Oakes:Oh wow, so you had to go back and do it again. I had to go back and shoot the whole thing again.
Kurt Davis:I'm like what was he thinking for those three hours?
Cleveland Oakes:It's how many years ago my son was in my son, who's in almost 30 now but when he was in high school he went to the Academy for Film and Careers and Television in Queens and he's in. That school is a great school because they teach. I'm going to keep it on the topic of hope and I'm going to give you this funny story. But they teach kids how to get into the film industry, because oftentimes people think about the film industry and they want to be in front of the camera. But both of us work in entertainment. We know that a lot of the power is behind the camera and so what they pack in the back pack in the back. So what they did in that school is they teach you how to be a best boy, a key grip, a gaffer, the sound guy and all of that. So that story that you and and in that way I'm going to keep it on hope, because it's like they instilled these they instill hope in these inner city kids that there is more that more to to life than than just the inner city. Right, here's a set of things that we're going to give you.
Cleveland Oakes:The entertainment is not just being Beyonce and Jay-Z, it is. You can be these people behind the scenes, but that reminds me of a son. He said that he was on a shoot, he was the sound guy and they shot for five hours and he never turned the sound on. And and he's like, and he's like his, his. His professor asked him dude, what were you when you didn't hear the audio coming through the headset? What were you thinking? And he was like oh, I just thought you were quiet.
Cleveland Oakes:That is a great story, so I digress, but it goes back. So I want to talk about another book, and this is Making Hope Happen Create the Future that you want for yourself and others. And this is by Dr Shane Lopez. And what Dr Lopez talks about in this book is the concept that explores that, the psychological perspective of hope, and not only talks about it, about the importance of hope, but the office, practical advice of how to, how to, of how to cultivate it. And, to summarize, dr Lopez presents the idea as hope is not just a feeling but, as you said, kurt, it is a set of skills that must be learned and developed, and that it's a and that it's a crucial element in bettering yourself. And once again, kurt, like you and that random interaction and others, right, and so I. Just what do you think about that?
Kurt Davis:I, I think that's great. I think that's great. I think you know we, we are pack animals. It's one of the reasons why we get on so well with dogs, like we speak the same language, and one of the things that's so funny, and in into the frame of walks Cleveland's cat, which I think it's really a little bit more of a loner, but they still love the company.
Kurt Davis:But yes, they do you know we're pack animals and we understand tribe needs healing and the tribe needs support. And if we can think of our fellow men and women as part of our tribe, regardless of where they're from, regardless of what language they speak, Sorry.
Kurt Davis:That could be a great relationship of hope and support back back and forth, and I love that component and others that comes to the end. But I also I want to talk about one thing too, and I think this is really, really important. On the topic of hope, I don't ever want to give the impression that hope is something that everyone can sustain and right and get to the same way and and this is this is really important here I don't know that he ever said this publicly, but sometimes when I'm, you know, deeply depressed and just like I got no gumption, I got, I, you know, got no hope Like, ah, you know, am I going to chip away at this thing again? You know that sort of thing, and it can be really, really down in the dumps. Sometimes I get a headache and I will take extra strength etc. Which is loaded with caffeine, and 20 minutes later you have the most hopeful, enthusiastic, energetic person you've ever met and all that.
Kurt Davis:And I'm, you know, I've always been kind of a happy, go lucky person in general, just in terms of my personality. I look back, you know, at pictures of me as a kid. I'm like, yeah, there's that face. I still make that face, but you know there is a biochemical component to our emotions. Yes, and if you are struggling and you can speak more to this, you're far more educated on this than I am but if, if you are struggling with hope or hopelessness and depression, it could very well be something that's out of your control.
Kurt Davis:Yes, you have low vitamin D, which I've been diagnosed many, many times with low vitamin D and it can alter your mood and I'm telling you that a single extra strength etc. Can take me from an absolute miserable person to somebody who can't wait to get to the next thing and do it and feel completely hopeful and energized about. And if that can happen with something that cures a headache, then that reminds me that our enthusiasm and our capacity for hope sometimes is shackled by our biology. Yes, and so people shouldn't feel guilty, because it's a nasty circle to find yourself hopeless and then to hate yourself for feeling hopeless. Yes, that's a really, really nasty spiral and it's important for people to know there may be something else going on and there could be something really in your head that's blocking you from that level of hope. But of course you know you can talk to the power of therapy and counseling as well.
Cleveland Oakes:Give me a second. I'm having a battle with my cat here who's deciding to rub against my mic. I'm going to have to pause this for one moment and kick around. Hold on one second. I had already paused it, yeah, and so I want to go back to what you're saying, right, and as somebody who is a therapist who's a therapist after my other job and I often need therapy it is one of the things that we do. The first thing that you ask somebody is what is going on with their physical health, right? And this is not to say and I want to make this disclaimer also we're not saying hey, the key to being hopeful is just to have hope. It takes work, right, and if there is, and if there is something, and as to Kurt's point, if there is something going on with you that you are depressed or anxious, go see a professional, go see a therapist, go see your primary care physician and find out what is going on. Right. But to another point.
Cleveland Oakes:I want to go back to what we were talking about, kurt, also to the responsibility of the community, or what we have to each other to remain hopeful, and one of the things that Lopez talks about in his book is that at work. It is in the context that leadership and community is supposed to cultivate hope right, and that hope has to be something that is cultivated by the community. And oftentimes, especially for those of you who are addicted to social media, it seems that social media, the media itself is, and it's funny for folks that work in media, it seems that the media itself is designed to create despair in a sense, especially when we look at the news and Kurt, let's talk about that minute for a second and how media and popular culture often and as you go back, goes back to the point of doom scrolling. How is it our responsibility to help each other remain hopeful at work, at home and in other places?
Kurt Davis:Well, it's a little challenging for me to talk about the corporate responsibilities that so many of these companies have, that we all know that there are certain organizations that profit on if it bleeds, it leads. I'm very happy that I do not work for one of those companies. In my opinion, I think that in fact, that's something that's come up we just don't want to. It's not a company that wants to tell sad stories just to get views or just to get clicks. It's just not what the company I work for does. It's a big company, it's one of the major networks, but I think I think individually it's it's important to sort of check in with each other.
Kurt Davis:My wife will often ask, because I'm often walked around the house with my wireless you know headphones and I'm listening to something and I'm following my phone around like it's carrying me basically, and she's like what are you watching? A state line, whatever it is, and then, wow, I'm surprised, after three days of watching the date line, that I'm depressed. It's just, you know, or I think, oh man, maybe, maybe I need to get a shotgun in here in case this happens. You know, it can really. It can really warp your perspective. Yeah, the same way that over exposure to adult content, and by that I mean pornography.
Kurt Davis:Yes, it gives you the impression that everyone in the world is having sex with you and the news cycle can give you the impression that it's you know the purge out there, that everyone around the corner is waiting to kill you or confront you in an elevator or break into your house or kill you or your spouse, or your spouse wants to kill you, and the stats for that are in real life are way, way different, yes, than they are in reality. It's sort of like this whole thing where there's this great book I don't remember the author, but the title. Great title the Gift of Fear, why Americans are afraid of the wrong things, and one of the things that the author talks about is how Halloween has become a center of fear for so many parents. I remember when I was a kid. It's like don't take any fruit or unwrapped candy because the crazy old woman or some maniac put a needle or razor blade in it in an apple. And if you Google you will find that no child has been confirmed harmed by Halloween candy ever.
Kurt Davis:There have been only in the publication of that book there had been only four incidents and three of them turned out to be parents making the excuse when their kids got into their drugstitch. Yeah, it's just not something that happens. But we have, you know, trunker Street and we have Halloween parties because, god forbid, kids should go door to door because everyone's a maniac and sometimes we need to just check each other like, hey, you know, is this a real thing? But you know it's tough. Everybody's trying to get clicks out there in the world and they got people like me who are like seven people died when you know it's just click. But sometimes you just got to pull back and there's nothing wrong with spending a weekend just watching fun stuff and stuff that gives you life.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, one of the things Lindsay and I like to go on vacation a lot and one of the things that we love about vacation especially, lindsay, a couple of months ago, wanted to go to Guadalupe, which is a French island in the Caribbean, and she wanted to go to and late as a rod, which is literally a deserted island. Now, even though I'm here talking about hope and all of that good stuff, I was like how many people are in that island and where is the local hospital? And if I break my leg is a 49 year old, what am I going to do? But what I do understand her love of going to those places is because it takes all the noise out right, and I think one of the things that stops people from being hopeful, as you mentioned, kurt, is just all this noise that's constantly in our face where this is going wrong and that's going wrong and this is going wrong, and it is just constantly in our faces. It's in these devices that we hold in our hand, and I think these are actually more guilty than traditional media because it's like constant interaction. But, with that being said, as we come, as we're coming to the end of our discussion here, I want to give our listeners a call to action, and then you can talk about some things that have helped you and I think you have talked about. But I think, for me, what I would encourage you as a listener or somebody who's out there is think about what hope means to you, right, not my idea of hope, or what Kurt's idea of hope is, or the professor, who's probably out there listening, waiting to be on the show, what his idea of hope is probably in a burlesque bar somewhere, but we'll talk to the professor about his interesting life when we get him on I want to get all my black daddies on but what does hope mean to you? And then share your own stories. As Kurt said that in that beautiful opening story, he shared his story with a stranger on the street, something great that happened to him and inspired him. But share your stories with other people, right, share. As Kurt said, we're pack animals and as pack animals, we want to help each other, and help each other through hope, instead of sharing stories that tear each other down. Hey, you heard what happened with Susie last week, you know? Do that story that Kurt said in the beginning. Hey, you heard Susie's Susie's pregnancy, you know? Let's, let's share hope.
Cleveland Oakes:And then and then, for me, what I do to cultivate hope for myself every day is I I do Lindsay will tell you I don't practice mindfulness as much as I should. I don't, but I do exercise every day, I do reflect and I do journal, and I think these are things that have helped me remain hopeful. And also getting to talk with my friends in circumstances like getting to sit down, and Kurt and I have been meaning to get back together for a while and I just like, hey, lindsay's out of town, let's make an excuse to just sit and chat a normal curtain Cleveland chat and just record it. And then, kurt, what are some of the things that you tell folks as a call to action?
Kurt Davis:You know what? I'm a big movie person, with movies coursing and out of my blood and have since childhood. I think there's a value in re-screening films that right give you hope. A film that immediately comes to mind for me is an older film, because I love classic films like Gary Cooper film Meet John Doe, which is a story about a woman who writes a fixed tissue story about a man who's going to throw himself off of, you know, top of City Hall because the financial, the finances, the times have just left him in ruin. And when the story becomes so popular they have to cast someone. So they cast a homeless man and Gary Cooper plays that man, but in a real sort of prophetic way. It sort of foreshadows the power of social media, because the story catches fire and everyone's talking about it and everyone has an opinion and things go from positive to negative very quickly.
Kurt Davis:But there's this wonderful scene in the movie where where the common man and woman have a discussion with a discouraged Gary Cooper about what the character he's playing. They don't know they think that character is real and they think he's real what that character has meant to them and how it's made it possible for them to to connect with their neighbor and to go forward with empathy and to feel hopeful and positive. And even though the movie takes a dark turn and it tested very poorly with audiences, the studio changed it and actually gave it an upbeat ending that works. And there's a movie to me that sort of reconfirms the goodness of people and the importance of hope and supporting each other in a community. So there's an example for me that just comes off the top of my head of a movie that gives me hope and if you have one or a TV series could be a series I think it's time to re-bing it, especially in those times when you feel low.
Cleveland Oakes:Yeah, yeah, that is something that's been helpful for me. One of my favorite quotes that I always say is I used to be a fan of Gilligan's Island and back when it was on TNT, the commercial was like Gilligan, take my advice, don't try to escape from paradise. And so whenever I'm having a crummy day or that song will just pop up in my head Don't try to escape from paradise. And I envision myself where I want to be and what I'm planning for and what I want for myself and my friends and my family in the future. Just to sum it up, some of the things that we talked about where it gave you guys some positive strategies for hope.
Cleveland Oakes:Hope is different than optimism, because hope is based on action and it's just not like a foolish hey, I hope to be an astronaut that also sings, raps, dances and acts. And hope is something that, even if you can't find or if you're having difficulty finding it, might not be a flaw. There is not necessarily a flaw in you. You might need professional help, you might need to go see a doctor, you might need to go see a therapist. Those are things that you really might need to go out and do. Do not be down on yourself if you can't get out of the dumps. But remember, the first part of hope is acting. So that means you take action to find out what is wrong with you so that you can get into that state, and that means to seek the help of a professional. You can't do it, and one of the things that we talked about is that hope is the responsibility of the community. It is our responsibility to build each other up. So reach out to the people in your life that can help you, even if those people in your life are a stranger that you need to see as a professional.
Cleveland Oakes:I'm rambling now and I think it's that nice hill rock that I've been sipping on for the last 40 minutes or so. Kurt, any things that you would like to summarize or add. And then, kurt, like I said on our outro, I want to thank you for joining us. And where can folks find you? And what's next in the world of Mr Davis?
Kurt Davis:You can find my smiling face and positive recommendations at Mr Kurt Loves Movies on YouTube. Please come check out my videos. Hopefully you'll stay and watch as many as possible. It's my attempt to give out something that's purely positive and uplifting, so hopefully you can check it out.
Cleveland Oakes:And just to add yeah, please support Kurt and for those of you who support this channel and we're not going to lie, we hope to be rich one day and we hope to monetize the hell out of everything that we're doing, but that is why we're taking action and we're out there and we're producing content. We're making content and if you're somebody who wants to change the world or get your voice out there, this is the future and you can get out there and you can, if you have a positive message to share, get out there and do that. For our next week, lindsey mom will be back home and maybe, if mom will be back home, so we'll be on a regular topic. I think we're going to talk about New Year's resolutions and why they don't work, or maybe why they do work, and if you enjoyed Kurt on the show, we will definitely have him back and you can always reach us at gettonnowthedevil at gmailcom, but this has been another episode of the Devil, you Don't Know. Thank you so much, kurt, because while mom's away, the mice will play.
Kurt Davis:Thank you for having me, man, Love you and blessings all this feeling is mutual.
Cleveland Oakes:Thank you so much.