The Art of Self-Mastery Overcoming the Victimhood Mindset

Hey there, Cleveland and Lindsay, checking in!

Ready to pivot from feeling like the world's punching bag to becoming the heavyweight champ of your own life? Do you ever get that nagging feeling that someone's just shirking responsibility and pawning it off as a perpetual victim? We've been there, and we're spilling the tea on how much this mindset can throw a wrench in everything from missed appointments to devouring vegan calamari.

Strap on your seatbelts because we're about to get real with some Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy wisdom from the legend of Albert Ellis. We're not just talking about folks who duck and cover when accountability knocks; we're digging into our own stories where we've had to face the music, head-on. It's about breaking free from those negative patterns and learning to tango with the idea that we're both the architects of our problems and solutions. And yes, we're bringing mindfulness and the art of self-reflection into the mix—brace yourselves for some soul-searching truth bombs.

We're laying down the roadmap to empowerment and resilience, starting with owning your emotions and showing that dreaded victim mindset the door. Plus, we're spotlighting the digital lifelines for when you need a virtual hug or a pep talk—think therapy apps, meditation guides, and journaling platforms. So raise a glass (or a vegan sausage pizza) to personal growth, and let's toast to kicking victimhood to the curb. Love and good vibes until we groove again in life's unpredictable dance.

Resources to Share:

Books:

Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol S. Dweck – Explores the concept of "fixed" vs. "growth" mindsets and their impact on our lives.

Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns – Offers insights into cognitive behavioral therapy techniques that can help combat negative thinking patterns.

Online Courses:

Coursera: The Science of Well-Being by Yale University – Offers practical strategies to increase personal happiness and build more productive habits.

Udemy: Assertiveness Training & Assertive Communication – Helps build assertiveness skills, crucial for moving beyond a victim mentality.

Podcasts:

The Overwhelmed Brain – Personal growth podcast focusing on emotional intelligence and critical thinking to reduce stress and increase empowerment.

Unf*ck Your Brain – A podcast that helps to rewire thought patterns, moving away from self-victimization towards a more empowered mindset.

Therapy and Support Groups:

Psychology Today Therapist Directory – A resource to find therapists specializing in cognitive-behavioral therapy and other approaches to overcome victim mentality.

Local or online support groups focusing on empowerment and personal growth.

Apps:

"Headspace" or "Calm" – Meditation apps that can help cultivate mindfulness and reduce stress.

"Jour" – A journaling app that guides users through reflective writing prompts, aiding in self-awareness and personal growth.

Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is Cleveland.

Speaker 2: 0:01

This is Lindsay.

Speaker 1: 0:02

And this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, Lindsay, what are we even talking about this week? The victim mindset Ah, the victim mindset One of my pet peeves. I can't stand when people are like whoa is me.

Speaker 2: 0:14

Yes, that is a huge pet peeve of yours. I don't like it either, but you and I are different. You get vocal about it and I just ignore them.

Speaker 1: 0:21

It drives me crazy. But before we get into that, we're going to do our usual topic. Lindsay, tell me something great that you ate this week.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Well, we did a little matchmaking last week at our friend's birthday party and then we took them to brunch with us. So we went to Coletta in New York City vegan kosher Italian restaurant. So good, so good, so good. Remember the first time we went there and we were worried about parking and driving in and turned out there's like a plethora of parking meters. So then you were like this is the best food I've ever eaten and we can come back.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Yeah, yeah. I normally hate driving down to the FDR drive down to the city. When I lived in Brooklyn it was easy. I was just hopped on the J train, like three stops and I could just walk. But now that I'm in the Burbs it's a little bit of a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:14

We don't live in the Burbs, it just feels like the Burbs Well listen when there's a deer and fox on the roadway.

Speaker 1: 1:21

That's the suburbs.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Oh, I saw someone hit a deer the other day too. I was very sad. What's not that Well, and we could take the boat there.

Speaker 1: 1:29

But I just I don't know, no, you're like the Korean mom, you don't do public transportation. But before we digress I don't mind the boat sometimes that's OK, but before we digress, but anyway, yeah, before we digress too far, I had that spicy sausage pizza which was delicious. It was vodka sauce and sausage and mozzarella. There's some red onions.

Speaker 2: 1:48

I wonder what the sausage has made of. I don't know. They won't. It was good though, right yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Remember when we went to Bodai and you asked Gordon, like what was the?

Speaker 2: 1:56

Oh, what was in.

Speaker 1: 1:58

What was it?

Speaker 2: 1:59

You asked him what was the noodle wrapper, and he was like oh, the dumpling, Because you like those watercress dumplings and I was sitting here thinking I'm going to make that for him at home and I was like what is this?

Speaker 1: 2:08

wrapper made of Gordon got shook. He was like no, no, no, the chef can't share that, Chef can't share that.

Speaker 2: 2:13

But it's some kind of I got. Now you got me thinking about it again. I stopped thinking about it this week, but no, that was your favorite dumpling and I just. It was like a cellophane noodle wrapper or something, because it was see through. But, anyway, let's get let me not divert to something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:29

So I mean, so that was delicious and I'm going to move on to my double of the week. My double of the week.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Oh, you don't want to know what I ate. Oh yeah, what did you do? You said it, so I thought you said it.

Speaker 1: 2:37

No, I didn't.

Speaker 2: 2:37

Ok, maybe I'm in the future, so maybe I'm thinking of the preacher no, no, we love Coletta, and my favorite two items on the menu are the cheese plate it's a vegan cheese plate with some little fixins and jams, and Christy and crackers, and the vegan calamari made from king oyster mushrooms oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:56

That was the bomb, the bombcom, nobody needs me, but that's a topic for another day.

Speaker 2: 3:02

Oh, we did that topic already.

Speaker 1: 3:04

Yeah, but we can do it again. We can, we can, so important to me. I was on the freight elevator work the other day and it was a gentleman. He had a tub full of salami. No, and as somebody, who used? To. I listen, I used to love me and mean salami sandwich. I would take some salami, some cheese, I would fry it up, fry it up, sear it up, and and that would be the deal. And I was like, dude bro, you know, that's a class, a Christen engine, right, I was like.

Speaker 2: 3:26

You know what's funny? You still love sandwiches, but now you love oyster mushroom sandwiches, tofu sandwiches and barbecue jackfruit sandwiches.

Speaker 1: 3:36

Yeah, that's out there, our dip.

Speaker 2: 3:37

They are delicious and you do love buffalo soy curl sandwiches.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Delicious and nutritious. So no, it was. So that's that's what I'm about. That's what I'm about. I'm going to move on to my devil of of of the week was just people at work. Sometimes, trust me out, and we're going to definitely do an episode of of of a toxic workplace. My workplace is not.

Speaker 2: 3:57

How about a toxic world? Right that book I'm reading now by Gabor Mata. I mean, the world is just toxic.

Speaker 1: 4:04

I've worked in some toxic workplaces and where I'm at right now is it's it's just standard corporate America Nothing, nothing, nothing crazy, nothing too crazy going on. But sometimes at work you really got to learn to manage your frustrations right, and and and, and and. I said a couple of weeks ago I was having a bad week at work and somebody pulled me to the side and was like oh, like, that really came out in your email, and so my devil of the week has really been challenging is learning to take constructive feedback, understanding where I messed up and not necessarily blaming it on the person that is giving me the feedback.

Speaker 2: 4:38

Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, mine is disrespective time. Yeah, so many people disrespect my time in my job. It's terrible, I can't stand it. I call, I confirm that they confirm the appointment, and then I go to their house and they're like I'm ringing the doorbell and I'm calling them. I'm like I'm at the door, maybe the bell isn't working. Oh, I'll be there in 30 minutes. What I won't be. Oh, you can't wait. No, I'm moving on with my day now. Right, it's just that people don't respect other people. People don't respect other people's time Not everyone, right, but there's a certain group of like entitled folks that just think that you have all day, every day, to just come, and then when I leave, they're like you're not coming back. No, I already came. And then, oh well, I'm free tomorrow. Okay, well, I'm not.

Speaker 1: 5:28

So one of my mentors, Jordan Harbinger, always talks about that. He's the one that put that idea into my head. That six that people who are not doing anything with their time assume that you're not doing anything either.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Right and it's not like I see one kid per week so oh, you weren't home and I can come tomorrow Like I have all day. Every day I see like 30 to 40 kids some weeks right For evaluations and it's like if you're not home it's really not that important to you.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Right.

Speaker 2: 5:57

You know, and I think I used the example with you of the contractor the contractor had to come yesterday between 11 and 12. I wasn't out anywhere. I dropped the kid at school, I did the morning carpool, I dropped all the teenagers off at the Catholic High School and I was home just a little after eight and then I didn't leave again until after the contractor came, because I thought, what if he comes early? Right, what if he comes a little late? I was, I'm going to wait for him and then I'll run my errands, because imagine if he came and I wasn't here. That's right, right, it's just annoying. Like we have a problem that we want resolved in the house with the water leak, so I have to sit here and wait. Right, you have a problem, you're concerned about your child's development, but then you're not there. So it's like begs the question how concerned are you that you're out 30 minutes away, at the top, five minutes before your appointment?

Speaker 1: 6:49

And I think that's a good segue into our topic this week, which is beyond victimhood and bracing empowerment, because many of those people that that you have to now have the negative consequence because of their actions would now come back and act like they're the victim.

Speaker 2: 7:04

Oh, I had that recently, actually. Let me tell you a quick story. I had a family where I had gone to this daycare in the Bronx and it was. The streets were all blocked off and I couldn't find it. It turned out the parent had given me the wrong address, but On purpose or by mistake Probably by mistake and I. But I was on the block but I couldn't. There had been a building collapse maybe a few months ago, and so it's still. Because it's the Bronx, it's still all the streets are blocked off.

Speaker 1: 7:34

Oh yeah, they're suing that guy. I listened to it on 1010.

Speaker 2: 7:36

Oh did you. So I had to go down a street. How funny is this Hennessy place Perfect for the Bronx right, because everywhere in the Bronx like talks about their Hennessy colladas and Hennessy this and Hennessy that.

Speaker 1: 7:48

White Hennessy place.

Speaker 2: 7:49

So I go down this street and it was closed. But I was like, oh, I'm just gonna go down anyway because there's so much parking and then I'll just come back up the wrong way when it's done. And it was because of the collapse. So everybody, it turns out, is doing this. So I go down, I park, I can't find it. The other evaluator comes, I'm center, I can't find the stay care. She can't find it. I call the mom, she calls the mom, the mom doesn't answer. 20 minutes later we're back in the car on the way to the next appointment and the mother is calling and saying oh well, we just woke up, but we could be there in five minutes. Well, no, because your point was 20 minutes ago.

Speaker 1: 8:24

Wait. So not only did they give you the wrong address, even if they would have been.

Speaker 2: 8:27

It was on that street, but she gave me the wrong number.

Speaker 1: 8:29

But even if you would have went to the right address, they weren't.

Speaker 2: 8:32

No, they weren't there because I called the mom to find it and they were still sleeping. And then she started screaming at me that I didn't care about her kid and all I wanted was the money. And I said, well, let me stop you right there, because I don't actually make any money if I don't see your kid, because I am paid by the job, right? So if you don't come, I don't get paid. But it was this whole thing where she was screaming at me and then I just said to her you know what? It is not my job to convince you of my character, but I will gladly call the office and have it reassigned. And in that moment she kept screaming at me and I said if you're going to continue to scream at me and curse at me, I'm just going to terminate the phone call.

Speaker 2: 9:12

And I hung up on her and she kept calling. But I thought she's not mad at me, she's mad because she wasn't where she needed to be and I wasn't going to sit and wait for her Eggman, right. So now she's the victim. This woman is so terrible, my kid can't get evaluated. But there was no. And then she actually I don't know if I told you this she actually called the Bureau of Early Intervention to complain about us. Wow. And I said well, I don't really know what she's going to complain about the fact that she wasn't where she was supposed to be when she was supposed to be there. Okay, I'm okay with that complaint, because you know who was there, me.

Speaker 1: 9:49

You and your colleague.

Speaker 2: 9:50

I was there.

Speaker 1: 9:51

That makes me want to give so for the audience. I'm going to give the definition of a victim mentality. A victim mentality is a psychological state or an attitude in which an individual consistently perceives themselves as the victim of circumstances even circumstances, in this case, is that you've caused. This mentality can lead to a pervasive sense of powerlessness, a lack of accountability and we've seen this in friends and in clients of one's own actions and a tendency once again something that we've seen in friends, colleagues and clients a tendency to blame external factors for personal challenges or failures.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Yeah, let me tell you, a lack of accountability is such a huge trigger for me, like if you did something, just say you did it, just take accountability, right. But there's also core beliefs in the victim, right. Bad things happen to me no matter what I do. You know, bad things are others people's faults. They're never mine right and I can't change what happens. So there's just no point in trying, and that's something that I see very regularly at work.

Speaker 1: 10:53

I had one friend that I was a good friend with and we're not friends anymore because of that, because they had this, they had this not only were they chronically pessimistic and we've talked about that in other episodes like Dime Dog and Debbie Downer from the old SNL skit but they weren't responsible for any of the crazy shit that happened in their lives Well, most people aren't.

Speaker 2: 11:12

People don't like to be accountable. That's such a trigger for me. And I had you see me again all activated across the room.

Speaker 1: 11:18

I see the cheeks getting red Right I hate when people are not accountable.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Just say you did it because you did it and everyone knows you did it. So say you did it.

Speaker 1: 11:27

And as an old saying, if you have a problem at work, if you have a problem at home, if you have a problem at school, you have a problem at church. You know what the one thing nails all the common denominator is you, and so when I brought that out to this person, I was like God damn. You know we are good friends, but every time there's a problem you never want to accept that. Maybe you played a part.

Speaker 2: 11:49

Right, and once you are aware that there's a problem and then you don't work on it, it goes from being right, an explanation very quickly, to becoming an excuse, and then you become the victim. I did this because I did this, because I did this because I hate that.

Speaker 1: 12:06

And that leads to like a feeling of powerlessness right when you're like well, everything's out of my control, so I'm not going to do anything.

Speaker 2: 12:14

Yeah, absolutely. There's like a manipulation too right. Like, oh well, this happened, so I'm going to do this right. I don't have any control over any of the circumstances in my life.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Yeah, I've one of the things and I and I and I love I won't say who this is in my family, who does this, but I have one particular family member who? Who does that when you come for when?

Speaker 2: 12:34

you come for that person. I'm listening close because I'm going to see if I could figure out what it is all right, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Because when you come for that person, that person automatically is like whoa, we all you know, but this world did this to me and like oh, how could you say this to me? And it's like it goes to a manipulation. This this person's got a ticket that they got to go to court for and they told me their strategy is going to be they're going to cry.

Speaker 2: 12:59

There's the manipulation strategy, right there, right, and I love this person dearly.

Speaker 1: 13:03

I do love this person Well because it's family.

Speaker 2: 13:06

But the problem is right. All ties back into the lack of accountability, and that's really where the victim mindset comes from. Right, this happens, so this is what I'm going to do. Oh, whoa is me? Have pity for me. No, no.

Speaker 1: 13:21

Well, one of the things that drives me crazy about victim is someone who's stuck as a friend or a colleague that's stuck in a in a victim mindset is the lack of problem solving. I think one thing you know about me is you give me a problem even though I like to cheat on video games.

Speaker 2: 13:36

Oh my God, you love to solve a problem all of them, even when I don't want you to solve it for me. You just want to step in and fix it, but that's funny, because you don't like me to do anything for you.

Speaker 1: 13:46

Yeah, but, I know, I know, but, but, but for those who are in a victim mindset, there is a reluctance or an inability to be proactive. Right, and what do you think about that?

Speaker 2: 13:57

No, I definitely, I definitely agree with that, right, because if it's everything is someone else's fault, then I don't really need to do anything. I can just sit here and continue being the victim, right, and continuing feeling. Continue excuse me, feeling pity for myself, right. And so, that being said, there's a lot of behaviors in the victims and thought patterns, right, and then they cause difficulty in sustaining relationships feelings of shame, guilt and inadequacy, right. Feelings of being stuck right, I'm not going to get anywhere, I can't do anything, and inability to feel pleasure or positive feelings, hopelessness, fear, inability to enjoy any successes that actually occur, right.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Whenever I sit down with a client that feels stuck or feels like the victim, I always quote Sir Isaac Newton to them. Which is a body at rest tends to stay at rest and a body in motion tends to stay in motion.

Speaker 2: 14:52

But we can all be stuck. But the problem is is that you can stay stuck If you do not conquer all of the uncomfortable emotions that come with getting unstuck right. And that's what this whole show is about. How do I get unstuck Right? How do I get from point A to point B, and what do I have to conquer in between Right? So it's like, yeah, you could stay that way, but then you're staying, living an inauthentic life, and you know me, I am all about somehow some way achieving what I want to achieve, living the life that I want to live, even if it means I have to conquer some fears along the way.

Speaker 1: 15:29

Right, and one of the things that you hate when I do and my boss hates when I do it do is when I chronically complain Like he'll be like dude. That was two days ago.

Speaker 2: 15:38

You don't really complain at home.

Speaker 1: 15:39

Yeah, but at work, I work. I've fallen to that habit where he'll be like dude. That happened two days ago. Why are you still complaining?

Speaker 2: 15:45

One habit that you have that I do get frustrated by is like the lack of you know, belief in yourself, sometimes right, where you're like and that is not I don't know if I would say it's a victim mindset but like, no, don't say that, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, but it's like yeah, but just say the opposite yeah, I know, that's the way it's going to be right, I'm going to be really successful or I'm going to conquer this, I'm going to do that. And that's where you and I are different, like where I set my goals and I'm like listen, you can come along with me or you could stay stuck back here, but whatever happens, I'm going.

Speaker 1: 16:16

I will say this it is a victim mindset. And I will tell you it's a victim mindset. I have colleagues who are black, who are my age, and have colleagues who are black who are my children's age. For the colleagues that are black for who are my age, who are 50 and above, we grew up in this mindset oh, you can't ski, you can't scare these white people. Oh you can't, you got to be, you got to listen to the white people. And so, for us, we oftentimes view ourselves as victim. I remember one time at work somebody said such and such this person and he's scared to ask for what they need. Why are all of you scared to ask?

Speaker 2: 16:50

for it. So you feel like there's a divide with the racial and cultural aspect of things.

Speaker 1: 16:55

Whereas my younger black colleague, who's a really good dude this guy's a go-getter, he goes out, he helps me organize events he said his mother had that conversation with him like oh, you don't really want to upset the apple cart and let them know what you want. And he said that actually made him sad because he realized that his mother grew up her entire life being a victim. And this young man said he's never thought once in his entire existence that he's a victim at all.

Speaker 2: 17:22

Did that change his mindset after that?

Speaker 1: 17:24

Oh yeah, he understood where she was coming from, but he resolved to. I'm going to still live in this. I'm not a victim. That interaction changed my mindset because I was like, wow, this kid who grew up in the post-post-civil rights era, who never worried about being black, understood that being black was a disadvantage but didn't wear it. As a victim was like I am going to ask for the things that I deserve.

Speaker 2: 17:51

Right, but then how do you break free from the victim mentality? It sounds like your colleague did that, but how do you break free from that? What do people have to do? Because it's not so easy for people to say, oh, I'm just going to stop being this way.

Speaker 1: 18:05

Yeah, it's really hard and we'll get to that. I want to just jump to the next part, because it really speaks to what the victim mentality does, which is it really impacts your life. I want to go back to this colleague's mom. I want to go back to my mom and I want to go back to my life before you. I had a lot as a person who believed that I was a victim for a long time. Due to my SES, due to my marital state, I had low expectations in life. A victim mentality has a profound and pervasive effects on an individual's life. The mindset not only shapes how a person views themselves and their capabilities, but also influences their interactions and that they limit themselves to things that they do Well, because they feel like they're not good enough or they don't deserve it, or they're stuck and it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2: 18:53

So why should I try? Right, which is what we said earlier. And so when you believe those things about yourself, it's a negative core belief, like I'm not good enough, I don't deserve this, so why am I even going to try to do it?

Speaker 1: 19:05

Yeah, one of the things I've said recently is my self-ethicacy has improved tenfold and I am not. I don't have hubris, which is foolish pride, but I know what I'm capable of and I know my self-worth, where I look now at where feedback is coming from and who feedback is coming from, and so if feedback is coming from a person that I respect, then I'm going to take it. If feedback is coming from somebody who's just the random Joe Schmoe on the street, or somebody who's saw me on social media and had something negative to say, I'm not going to take that because I am not a victim.

Speaker 2: 19:43

Yeah, I agree, right, well, you also. You're right, you have to be mindful of where it's coming from. Yeah, yeah, but let's talk about breaking free from that now. How do you break free from that when you feel like you're so stuck and you're not good enough? What needs to happen to not feel that way anymore, or to break free from that kind of vision that you have of who you are?

Speaker 1: 20:08

Well, in my mindset, overcoming a victim mentality involves recognizing and challenging the thoughts and the values that perpetuate that mindset. So, like CBT, right.

Speaker 2: 20:17

Yeah, yeah. It's like self-sufficiency, negative core beliefs and reframing.

Speaker 1: 20:23

Albert Ellis, who was the founder of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. Oh, that's your favorite, it's my favorite. My professors always tell me don't be like Albert Ellis, because he was a little bit of an asshole, and we'll talk about that.

Speaker 2: 20:34

He wasn't. But you know, we could talk about that in a whole episode because I'm also sometimes an asshole with my clients. But yeah, because you have to sometimes tell people how it is.

Speaker 1: 20:44

But I'm fine. Yeah, and we talked about that in class recently where it's like no, as a New Yorker, our style is sometimes to be direct and tell it how it is. But going back to breaking free of that victim mentality, it is a process of recognizing and challenging the thoughts and that behaviors. As Ellis would say, you're being irrational, right, and Ellis was kind of an asshole because he was very direct and I don't think he was an asshole. But to some people today in our genteel society we'll go back and look at guys like Ellis and Fritz Pearls and be like whoo, those guys are rough.

Speaker 2: 21:18

You're not necessarily an asshole if you just tell the truth. We talked about that right, but it's learning to deliver the truth kind of in a more compassionate or empathetic way.

Speaker 1: 21:26

So how can a person recognize a victim mentality in himself?

Speaker 2: 21:32

You know, interestingly, most people don't recognize it, which is why they keep doing it right, because it's a lack of an awareness. So if you become more aware of yourself, right, so more like self-awareness, self-care, developing a set of skills to really kind of stop and think, is probably the best way, because most people don't right. And I have a story too Like I used to have a friend when I met you, who was a really good friend of mine, but, god, she complained all the time about everything. And you know what? Yes, she was dealt a shitty hand, she was right, like she had experienced a really severe trauma in her life. But the thing is is she stayed stuck in that trauma for years and years, and years and years.

Speaker 2: 22:18

And then, when I met you, she didn't like you, but she didn't even know you, right, and so she had no basis for that thinking. But all she could think about was like, oh well, now my best friend is gone, now my best friend is not available, and ultimately the end of the friendship came because she wanted to go somewhere and you and I were together and I didn't answer the text quickly enough because we were together, and then days later she demanded an apology, and if I didn't apologize to you, to her, then the friendship was over and I had to say you know what, I cannot abide by this set of rules to make you feel better about yourself. So like, if I can't have both in my life, then I'm going to have Cleveland in my life, right, and so it's. You know, I think there's just a lack of awareness in people, and that is why it is very hard to change the victim mindset.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Yeah, it sounds like in that particular case that that person and I have it here that the effects of that victim mindset on a relationship or a friendship or even a platonic, is a strain in a personal dynamics. There's dependency issues that manipulate a little bit of behaviors, because I recall that that person was very manipulative of you.

Speaker 2: 23:29

And then there's social isolation, right when over time you were so negative with so many people in your life that people don't want to mess with you and I wasn't the only one that stopped having a relationship with her right, and it's very hard to be in a relationship with people who don't take accountability and who do not have awareness of how their behavior impacts other people and so wanted to go back to your point and recognizing that is to practice mindfulness, practice self-reflection, regularly reflect on if your thoughts and situations, albert Ellis would say, match the occasion right.

Speaker 2: 24:04

Right, and sometimes you do have to have that Albert Ellis approach, right, and I did that with a couple this week and I said, like you know what, you two are the root of all the causes of the problems in this family. And they were just looking at me with their jaws wide open, right, they're just like I don't know what to say to you. But it's true, right, because behavior impacts other people and so when you're causing the problems of other people, you have to stop and look right. And this is, I think, what is like perpetuates negative cycles for people. People cannot be aware, because the truth is painful, the truth hurts, there's suffering in the truth. So if you sit and look at it and say I am this way, now you have to be like shit. That is not a good quality that I possess. I don't know what to do, I don't know how to change it, I don't know how to reframe it Like, how do I get out of it? And that's why people stay, because once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Speaker 1: 25:02

Yeah, yeah. Part of the problem I like to say is that folks like to be the hero of their own stories, and sometimes being the hero of your own story means you're also the victim of your own story. Everybody else is persecuting you. It's really important to take feedback from others, and sometimes you need that Albert Ellis or that Fritz Pearls in your life who will be like yo, bruh, let me tell you, you're being an asshole, right, and sometimes it's important for you to identify your own patterns. Notice the patterns in your life where you tend to blame everyone else or external circumstances and others for your problem, recognizing instead of recognizing that it is you that caused the problem. I think you're just something that you say, something, lindsey, like that we caused 99% of our own problems. I don't want to misquote you on it. You say it often we're like 99% of our own problems and we're 99% of our own solutions, or something.

Speaker 2: 25:53

Oh, no, no, I say to you that I'm going to tell you exactly what. It is right that the biggest shift in your life will happen when you accept the truth that you and you alone are both the cause of and the solution to almost every single problem that you ever have and ever will encounter in your life.

Speaker 1: 26:19

Oh my God, how easy would life be if you accept that.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Yes, and I do say to people right, like if you've experienced a significant trauma. Right, if you're the victim of a crime or a victim of like sexual trauma or something right, obviously that is not your fault and you can't. You know you can't take accountability for that right. But that is the biggest shift in your life is when you accept the truth that most of your problems come from your own shit, that you do your thoughts, your words, your actions, your behaviors.

Speaker 1: 26:46

What good. One of the things that's helped me be successful at work and I work in a really tough environment is, instead of blaming somebody else for the problem, is accepting what I did wrong to not protect myself right.

Speaker 2: 27:04

And sometimes you don't, but the other person just wants to have a problem all the time, right, and then that person is the victim. Oh, nobody does what they're supposed to do. Oh, I have to do it all, I have to follow behind them, right, but it's true, right. And so the thing is is, once you have an awareness of that, then you can shift and then you become the solution, right, so hence, you are both the cause and the solution, right? If I do this, this is what happens, okay, so I can't do this anymore. Now this happens right.

Speaker 2: 27:33

And so that's, that's really where that comes from. And I'm not saying like everybody, right, like as I grew up in a you know an interesting household, and I wouldn't say that a lot of the things that happened were my fault, but I say that I have an awareness of them and now I act differently in my life because of them. Yeah, right, and so you have to realize that you bring patterns with you through life. You have to become aware and either you make a change or you don't make a change.

Speaker 1: 27:58

When I studied management years ago, there was a story of and I'll bring this to the workplace right, and how a victim mentality or shedding of victim mentality in the workplace will help you. There was a management team. There was a. There was an executive in the company that was, that was known to be very difficult to work with and was very specific, right, whereas all the other managers would come in and be like, oh, this person is this and this person is that. This one person was like listen, let me not complain about this person, but let me figure this person out and give this person what they need right. Give them what they expect right.

Speaker 2: 28:33

Well and reframe your relationship right, With all the emotions that come with that guilt, shame, fear, anger, right, Reframe your relationship with those things and then you see them from a different way.

Speaker 1: 28:45

It is easy to blame someone else for how they treat you, but if you are in a cage with a tiger, there's a way to deal with the tiger Well you know what I say, right, every you are responsible for all of your own actions, thoughts, behaviors, emotions.

Speaker 2: 29:01

That is your stuff to figure it out, not mine. So, like I always say, right, what other people think of me is not my business, that's. You know, I don't care. That's why I told you. I said to that mom that day that she was screaming and cursing at me. Like, my job here is not to convince you of my character, right? You know you've got a mindset, you've. You know you want to be the victim here and you want to tell me how I am Go ahead. You know, I was there too. I know the other side of the story, whatever, right. And the thing is, some people get so worked up about that because it's like they like to be the victim, oh, and then they start screaming and complaining and you know, and no, I don't care, I don't care If you don't like me. There's really no skin off my back. Honestly, it's one less person that I have to interact with.

Speaker 1: 29:43

Jesus says shake the dust off your feet. Which moves me on to this thing, which which and I think it's, and I'm going to touch on something that you just said it's essential, and it's essential to not shove your feelings down, which is something that you've accused me of, and there's something that I do that sometimes I just take it, I don't think with me.

Speaker 2: 30:01

I just think in life, I think that you've, you know, you've, you've had a lot of experiences, and so, in order to be strong, right for your children, and to maintain the lifestyle that you had, right, when you were a single dad, that you had to push that stuff down, yeah, right, and so but now I recognize that it's showing that feeling her or disappointed or even wronged is important to feel those things, but it's important not to get stuck on it.

Speaker 1: 30:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:29

I remember Thanksgiving, when you had a few too many Bourbons the night before Thanksgiving, when a couple of the kids were here and you went on your apology door right Because that's what you know you needed to like lower your inhibitions a little, have a couple of cocktails, relax, and then you lowered your inhibitions.

Speaker 1: 30:45

You don't know who Ruben Stuttered is, but this is another. You're always amazed. Well, I know these stupid like so many songs, but for those of you who Ruben Stuttered is, this was my sorry for 2024. I'm going to mess up no more, right.

Speaker 2: 30:59

But you know, that's the thing. And you said, I remember you did that and we were like, okay, it's Cleves, great apology tour, right, yeah, so my oldest daughter was like uh-oh, here you go again.

Speaker 1: 31:09

Well, his apologies.

Speaker 2: 31:10

Yeah, and the thing is is like we've moved past, that it's fine, right, everybody's happy, you've got a great relationship with the kids, so you know you've taken your accountability, but don't, don't shove your feelings down, right Is the message there? Because you shove it down and you shove it down and then you have couples like I have right that have years and years of resentment. And it's not about the dishes or the snacking or what TV shows your partner watches. It's about all the years of not feeling respected and not feeling loved and not feeling supported and not feeling heard. And then I'm the victim now. Oh well, he does this and I have to walk around on eggshells and I can't do this and it's like, well then leave or just do it and see what happens.

Speaker 1: 31:51

As we move on to our final segment you.

Speaker 1: 31:54

We want to offer you guys tools for empowerment, and these are practical steps and exercises that shift you, that would help you shift from that victim mindset to one of empowerment and accountability, especially accountability of yourself. Shifting from a victim mindset to one of empowerment and accountability involves practical steps and exercises that promote self-awareness, promotes resilience and proactive behavior, and once some of it. Now we're going to get into some of these strategies, but I want to start off with self-reflection and journaling, and I think, personally, back in the old days when I was a JWM not anymore they're what we did and it is a part of the Christian faith, which is to read daily reflections, which I do think it's important to. At least doesn't have to be the Bible, it doesn't have to be the Ba'g-e-va'gita or the Quran, but I do think it's important to spend a few minutes each day reflecting on the day's events and identifying, you know, the instances where you felt like the day might have been out of your control and how you could have done that.

Speaker 2: 32:50

It's going to be fun. Let's start doing this every night at dinner. Yeah, we'll do it. We'll do it. Yeah, because the Queen Mom I don't know if I told you this she wanted to come home from school last week. She forgot her ID and so they were going to take her phone for the whole day and lock it up in the office and so she was texting me I don't feel good, Can I come home?

Speaker 2: 33:06

And I was like nope, sorry, I'm in Queens. You felt fine all morning, and then later I found out what happened. Yeah, she told me that. She told me that.

Speaker 1: 33:13

No accountability, no accountability, but it is important to have daily reflections. What do you think about that, lynse?

Speaker 2: 33:19

Oh, I agree, I think it's important to look back on what happened right and to sit and reflect. But I am the kind of person that as soon as I feel a little tension creeping in, I stop and I breathe and I sit with myself. And often it's uncomfortable for people to do that, because what comes up can be uncomfortable, and so I say, like, if stuff comes up right. My meditation teacher, sarah Swaddy, would say, like if something comes up, that means you got to look at it right. That's really what the focus of your healing work needs to be.

Speaker 1: 33:47

What are some cognitive exercises that you think that folks could do to help them, you know, reframe kind of what's going on in their lives?

Speaker 2: 33:55

Well, cognitive exercises are difficult unless you're you know in therapy or you know how to do them. But it's you know. Reframing your thinking, like, thinking you think something about yourself but then think the opposite, right? Or challenging that thought, right, like I think I have a client who called in sick and she gets so much anxiety when she calls in sick. I'm like, oh, have you been reprimanded for calling in sick? No, oh, okay. Has anyone ever said anything to you when you're back? No, okay, right. So like, where does that come from? Right? So like, look at the other side of the thought, right, try to validate the thinking. When you think a certain way, you think a certain way about yourself. Validate it right. And if you can't validate it right, then it's probably an irrational thought.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Yeah, that ties back to Ellis and I love that that you brought that up, because that ties back to Ellis. Ellis would ask the question. If you sat down with Albert Ellis, he would ask you well, what evidence do you have? That's true, you know right?

Speaker 2: 34:53

Yeah, absolutely. And that's I do that with a lot of my clients Like who told you that about yourself? Nobody, oh, okay, so where to come from? Right? And that's why it's also really important to like, do a deep dive into the inner child stuff, because that's really where a lot of this comes from.

Speaker 2: 35:11

And I tell all my clients, like, you have to be willing to look at the really gnarly stuff that happened to as a child if you want to work with me, because my whole way of doing therapy is like let's look at where you were, let's look at where you are and let's see all the patterns that came with you here. Because that is what, right, all the stuff that happened to us shapes us. All the experiences we've had make us the person that we are today, and that's often why we have the behaviors that we have. Because if someone told you you weren't good enough your whole life and that you're a failure and you're going to amount to nothing, right, then that's what you think of yourself. So it's, it goes back to that. So you know, the victim mentality also ties into those core beliefs that come from your childhood.

Speaker 1: 35:53

Yeah, it's a shame and I often find this with clients who lead like and this is not so much with the young generation, and I appreciate the young generation for that but I have clients who have, who lead alternate, what, what were considered when we grew up, alternative lifestyles, such as gay, bisexual, and they really have this, this some of them really have imprinted on them, just like like the black people from my generation, that they're victims and it is really really hard to overcome that.

Speaker 1: 36:20

I have one person that I sat down with several several months ago. That was like said the same thing that I said about his younger cousins and who are gay, that they like nah for f, that you know we're going to do what we need to do. And he's still sitting here, you know, scared, like he thinks it's like if you ever seen the movie Rosewood, like where. That was a movie where and it's based on the true story like the Tulsa, oklahoma massacre that happened where a bunch of jealous white folks came and burned down a prosperous black town, right, and so for many of us who are, who are, who are not black but gay or feel marginalized, it is really hard to overcome that victim mentality.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Yeah, I could see that with you right, because I think even in your workplace now you're one of very few black executives and so there is still a little of that fear in you right to speak up, to apply for something more or to really believe that you're capable of doing something.

Speaker 1: 37:17

Yeah, that's really important. And another piece that I want to say that I know fits in with you and all your spiritual training is gratitude practice. Right, Tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Well, gratitude practice, I mean, is just reflecting on what you have and what you're grateful for. Another thing that I'm really big into I don't know if I've ever told you this, actually, but is journaling and writing like a victim impact statement. So my breathwork teacher, trish, who I saw yesterday and you know, you all know now that I just love her dearly, she's amazing and she's awesome in every way. She and I did this in the very beginning is writing a victim impact statement. So I don't believe in journaling in the traditional sense of journaling. Some people get up and do morning pages, some people journal their feelings away.

Speaker 2: 38:04

I tell off all the people who pissed me off in my journal and I curse at them and I do all that I really define that book.

Speaker 1: 38:10

I'm probably in there like pages one through 100.

Speaker 2: 38:12

You might be in there, but you know what. That's OK, right, because it's a really healthy way to release all the feelings that you have and all the frustrations you have, and then, once you get it out, you could start to look at it. Yeah, yeah, right, and so I do that. It's called the victim impact statement and you just tell everyone off in a way that you couldn't tell them off to their face because it would be just so vulgar and disgusting.

Speaker 1: 38:35

And I think that brings us to our last segment, which is nurturing resilience and growth. And it's really important to nurture resilience and growth because it helps you overcome the victim mentality. One of the ways that I can think about it is through, and one of the ways that I overcame my growth, overcame my victim mentality, was to read inspirational material. I read books like the Color of Water You're a reader, yeah and the Other, westmore.

Speaker 2: 39:02

Yeah, you got me to read both of those and they were fantastic books. Yes, yes, well for me. I like to read some spiritual texts because I feel that the messages in those books, especially in any of them, really can apply to what you're going through in life.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Right, right and I think it's important. So some of the things is you have to really build that resiliency and overcome the victim mindset is be mindful of behavioral changes, regulate your emotions, get involved in something like a social and community.

Speaker 2: 39:32

Find your sangha yeah. Find your people who have similar and like-minded interests yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:39

And professional guidance. We would always record. You don't have to come see us. If you're in the Bronx, come see us. Email us at gettonowthedevil at gmailcom. But no, seriously, you don't have to come see us, but seek therapy and counseling Some of these things. You can read every self-help book in the world and you can listen to good, great podcasts like ours and others, but you sometimes still need a professional counselor who can work with you. In another case you need support. So find a workshop or a course or something that really speaks to you.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Yeah, I agree, I absolutely agree, and that's just that self-care piece and connecting with other people who can relate to you.

Speaker 1: 40:19

As we wind up, I want to ask you one last question, lindsey, then this is something that we'll talk about in maybe our forthcoming Letters to Lindsey segment. If I can get a degree to Lindsey to read some listener emails on the show, how can I? This is all good talk, but how can I really cultivate resilience through challenges and setbacks?

Speaker 2: 40:44

By getting to know who you are and liking all the parts of yourself, letting them all live in harmony together.

Speaker 1: 40:50

And I think, if you go back and you listen to everything that we talked about in this episode, that you really can figure. It can be the start of figuring some things out If you want to read more or want to learn more. Some resources that we can share with you are Mindset the New Psychology of Success by Carol S Dweck. This book explores the concept of fixed versus growth mindsets and their impact on our lives. There's also Feeling Good, the New Moon Therapy, by David D Burns, and this book offers insights into cognitive and CBT techniques that can help combat negative thinking. There's some online courses that you can take, which is Equicera, the Science of Well-Being. There's Udemy, assertiveness Training and Assertive Communication, and also there's some podcasts. We always support our fellow podcast. There's the Overwhelmed Brain and Unfuck your Brain, a podcast that helps you rewire thought patterns, moving away from self-dictamization towards an empowered mindset.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Fuck your brain, Unfuck it. Yes, that's great. That's great Because Trish always says the less fucks you give, the happier you are. Yes, there you go.

Speaker 1: 41:56

So we got to get those guys on as guests. And always psychology, Always psychology and always. You can turn this online support. If you don't have a therapist that you immediately know or have a relationship, you can always turn to some places like Psychology Today and other directories to find a therapist there. And if you are in an app person, there's apps like Headspace and Calm, and Jor is a journaling app that you can help you change some Most Cloud Songa.

Speaker 2: 42:28

Say it again, cloud Songa is a great app. And also looking at the websites of Jack Cornfield and Tara Brock, who have a lot of free meditations on YouTube and you just click the links and they're basically geared towards all of these different topics anxiety, work, struggles, stresses but those are two of my really my favorite people.

Speaker 1: 42:51

And with that I really don't. I can just end it right there. I think you guys got the point. This has been another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know. This has been Cleveland.

Speaker 2: 43:00

This is Lindsay.

Speaker 1: 43:01

And if you like what you saw, like what you saw, if you like what you listened to, please wait and review us on iTunes or Spotify or whatever platform you're listening to us. Those things mean a lot to us. And also email us at gettineauthedevil, at gmailcom, and maybe I will respond on air. And maybe Lindsay will respond on air if I can convince her to do a Lindsay-centric episode, let us the Lindsay. I'm pulling for it. I know, I know Love you guys all, and until the next time I didn't think that I would ever see your face again, but I was wrong. I can't believe we're dancing in the street. All I ever wanted was to get close to you. Now I'm burning in your atmosphere. I can't feel my feet while we're dancing in the street. I'm burning in your atmosphere.