Have you ever been caught in the tangled web of nosiness on the giving or receiving end? In our latest episode, we traverse the journey from self-examination to establishing personal boundaries and how these principles cultivate more authentic connections and life bursting with intention. Navigating the thin line between curiosity and intrusion, we share relatable tales from our lives where boundaries were tested and the profound difference empathy can make. From the prying eyes of neighbors to the delicate approach needed in situations of trauma, we explore the impact of our interactions on our inner tranquility and the well-being of those around us. With a touch of humor and a splash of hard-earned wisdom, we dissect the toxic trends of cancel culture and the importance of clear communication in safeguarding our personal space, whether in person or online.
Resources
Book Recommendations:
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
The Art of Minding Your Own Business by Angela A. Shutters
Articles for Further Reading:
"The Psychology Behind Nosiness and How to Overcome It" (link to a psychology journal)
"10 Ways to Mind Your Own Business" (link to a well-regarded self-help blog)
Podcast Episodes for Extended Learning:
"The Power of Staying in Your Lane" on The Mindful Communication Podcast
"Setting Boundaries with Grace" on The Happiness Lab
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
Have you ever been caught in the tangled web of nosiness on the giving or receiving end? In our latest episode, we traverse the journey from self-examination to establishing personal boundaries and how these principles cultivate more authentic connections and life bursting with intention. Navigating the thin line between curiosity and intrusion, we share relatable tales from our lives where boundaries were tested and the profound difference empathy can make. From the prying eyes of neighbors to the delicate approach needed in situations of trauma, we explore the impact of our interactions on our inner tranquility and the well-being of those around us. With a touch of humor and a splash of hard-earned wisdom, we dissect the toxic trends of cancel culture and the importance of clear communication in safeguarding our personal space, whether in person or online.
Resources
Book Recommendations:
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
The Art of Minding Your Own Business by Angela A. Shutters
Articles for Further Reading:
"The Psychology Behind Nosiness and How to Overcome It" (link to a psychology journal)
"10 Ways to Mind Your Own Business" (link to a well-regarded self-help blog)
Podcast Episodes for Extended Learning:
"The Power of Staying in Your Lane" on The Mindful Communication Podcast
"Setting Boundaries with Grace" on The Happiness Lab
Please email us at Gettoknowthedevil@gmail.com
This is Lindsay and this is Cleveland, and this is another episode of the Devil. You Don't Know, lindsay, what are we going to be talking about today? The art of minding your own business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of your favorite topics. I think you've been looking forward to this one for quite some time.
Speaker 1:I'm excited about this one. We had to start over a few times because of my hot flashes.
Speaker 2:So if you hear airplanes in the background, I need the window open today.
Speaker 2:So mind your goddamn business. And don't send me a note about why there was noise in the background it's because Lindsay's got some hot flashes going on. But let's get started. In today's episode, we're going to dive deep. Dive into the wisdom behind one of Lindsay's favorite sayings, which is keeping your side of the street clean, and why it's crucial to know when to mind your own business. We explore the fine line between offering help and overstepping boundaries, and how mastering this balance can lead to healthier relationships and a more fulfilling life.
Speaker 2:So Lindsay let you take it away. This is your topic. Tell us what brought us here and why you chose this particular topic.
Speaker 1:Well, because I think that people are very meddlesome and they don't keep their side of the street clean. People are very quick to, as you would say, cast stones, but then they don't look at their own role in something or don't acknowledge their own kind of negative traits or negative behavior patterns. And so when I think about keeping my side of the street clean, it means that I'm making choices for myself, but I'm also owning the choices that I make that are not so great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think about keeping my side of the street clean, it means that I'm worried about maintaining my integrity and my conduct rather than trying to control other people. And when I think about you know, once again, for those of you who are not Christian, this is not to try to convert you over to Christianity. These are stories that I learned growing up. But when I think about Jesus Christ, he one of his biggest problems with the religious leaders of the time the Pharisees and the Sadducees is he was like you guys, don't mind your business, right? He was like one of the things he often famously was known for saying was he without sin, cast the first stone? And then something else he said about minding your business is he was like dude, my guy, you have a rafter on your face, but you were trying to pick out the straw from your brother's eye. Get the rafter off your face first and then go to help somebody else. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Right. Take action and responsibility for yourself and don't worry so much about telling other people about themselves. What is one thing I always tell you? What anyone else thinks about me is none of my business.
Speaker 2:Exactly when I think about this idea of keeping your side of the street clean and once again I'm going to rail against social media, as I rail against it every week is you have what is in today's culture called cancel culture, and this cancel culture is is emphasizing the importance of you know for people to go get justice. You know justice on a perceived, on a perceived wrong which in some cases yeah, this person obviously 100% needs to be canceled In other places instances, this person probably needed some human kindness. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's also people looking for somebody to sit there and just tell them that they're correct, right Is which essentially what you're saying, right? Instead of taking self-accountability, it's like let me go out and show the world, and then I also want this instant gratification and return. One of the things I hate about social media is when people post about oh my God, that's the worst, I can't believe that happened, I'm so sad and that's what they say. And then everyone's like what's wrong, what happened? And it's like why would you do that except to look for attention? Right? Instead, focus on yourself, right? And if you're going to do that, then give everybody the whole story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. The saying that keep your side of the street clean really goes back to what you're saying, where it emphasizes your self-accountability and that one should ensure that what they're doing is right, first and foremost, before you call this person out and before you call that person out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it also originated in 12-step programs, right, which was like you basically take your recovery into your own hands, right, you do the work, you do the work and even if it's hard, you keep doing the work. Focus on your own behavior, acknowledge what you've done that's been harmful to yourself and to others, but keep doing the work.
Speaker 2:And it goes back to even what we talked about last week, when we talked about self-examination and self-awareness. The concept of keeping your side of the street cleans aligns with not only Christianity, but with Islam, with Judaism and many other religious traditions, which advocates that you examine yourself first, right that you make sure that your personal integrity is paramount before you focus on somebody else's actions.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I always say I could go buy a huge piece of land, live off the land and have a little cabin on it. My goal is to not have to interact with people if I don't want to for like a month. But I like to clean up my side of the street. I really do. I like, love that hard work.
Speaker 2:It's so weird, right, because we live in this culture where everybody's got a goddamn opinion about everything, and I think personally that it steals from your happiness when you have an opinion about oh, I got an opinion, what's going on here? Have an opinion on what's going on in here. I have an opinion about how this person is dressed. I have an opinion who this person is sleeping with, and really what you need to focus on once again is yourself. Right, keeping your side of the street clean recognizes that I can't control someone's actions, right, and it makes me and it's always so weird to me that people who profess to be Christians have the most un-Christian like attitude, whereas Jesus never judged anyone. I saw a politician once write about. He said I am going to say and it's ironic for me to say a politician, because we all know that they're most of those guys are villains.
Speaker 2:But he was like I am going to sit up here and I will now quote everything that Jesus had to say in the Bible on homosexuality. And then he proceeded to say nothing, because, even though the Bible talks about fornication and homosexuality and all these other things, at the end of the day Jesus was like these things that other people are doing, that other people are doing, are between them and their creator or between them and the universe, and what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, because you only person that you really need to do the work for is for yourself. You don't need to tell everybody about themselves, you don't need to give your opinions, you don't need to understand people's choices. I always say respect people's choices, you don't have to understand them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I agree with that 100%, and the evolution of this phrase over time demonstrates that it's broadly applicable to different contexts, from personal development to professional ethics, and it serves as a reminder of the importance of not holding that other person accountable, right, like I worried about what's going on in the house next door to me, or the house behind me, or the house on the other side of me, I'm worried about what is going on here, right?
Speaker 1:I always say to clients when they're worried about something and sometimes they have these very irrational worries like they're afraid to call in sick to work right, and I'm always like, well, when the person that sits next to you calls in, are you concerned about it? And they're like, no, not at all. And I'm like, oh, have you ever gotten in trouble for calling in sick? No, not at all. Okay, so do a little internal work here, think about this right and realize that you need to resolve within yourself what's going on, because we often project outward, because it's uncomfortable to look inward.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to jump to our next segment, which is the psychology of nosiness. And oh Lord, oh, Lord.
Speaker 1:Well, we live in the nosiest neighborhood. We live Ever.
Speaker 2:With some nosy people, right, and so here's the thing is, humans are naturally curious about others lives, right? We watch TV because we want to be like. You know, there's a new show on Peacock called Apple's Never Fall, which is based on I've never seen it, yeah, which is the best based on have you seen it?
Speaker 2:No, I haven't seen it, but, ma'am, we'll watch it today right which is based on a family. That's like falling apart, right? So we like to see what is going on in other people's lives, and that is a natural con, that is a natural part of our evolution.
Speaker 1:Oh, sometimes I even say if somebody wrongs me several times, sometimes I do say you know it's a little petty, but I'd love to see them get theirs, which I know is a very petty thing.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's good right, but it's natural to be to be to be a little nosy right. That's why we have TV shows as well.
Speaker 1:Curiosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so from an evolutionary perspective, it's being curious, right? It also that little bit of curiosity that is not meddlesome and we'll get to talk about meddlesome in a second leads to social bonding and cohesion. It leads to learning and adaptability. It leads to empathy and understanding and it leads to self reflection and, like I just said, it is an escape. Curiosity about other people's lives can provide an entertainment and an escape from the monotony of your life. But, lindsay, when does that become invasive? Let's talk about that.
Speaker 1:So when does?
Speaker 2:it go from a healthy curiosity to where you have a neighbor who's like walking around in your yard.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a perfect example, right, because we do have that where we actually had to build a fence because she was coming in the backyard. We had to have some very strong words with her because she was ringing the doorbell to tell us the cat was outside. She's calling you at work to tell you someone's trimming the tree the tree that belongs to the city. She's knocking on my car window the same day while I'm on a phone call and she's knocking to tell me that the tree trimming guy was there.
Speaker 1:That's too much. First of all, I wasn't home, I didn't know and I wouldn't even have known when I got home. So none of that impacted me at all, except, honestly, to just aggravate me because I'm telling her I'm on a phone call. I was actually on with the college drop-ins, a college advisor when he was in high school and she's knocking on the car window, just obsessively knocking, and I'm telling her I'm on the phone and she's screaming that it's important and I'm like well, I can guarantee you that this conversation that I'm having is far more important than what you need to tell me. And then it was because then, when I was going into the house, she started screaming they trimmed the tree. They trimmed the tree.
Speaker 2:Very important information and I was just like.
Speaker 1:First of all, you'd already told me that she called you at work and interrupted your work day. I mean, a few weeks ago she called you to tell you the dogs were outside. I was home, I put the dogs outside. So that's too much. That's too much right, us being on vacation and somebody staying in the house and going to the public beach and using our key to get in? Oh yeah, remember that and I'm getting texts from this neighbor that only people who live on the block can use the beach.
Speaker 1:OK, well, this is my friend. I gave her the key. She doesn't live here and I said well, she's Cuban and her friend that she brought was Mexican. So I said you do realize how this looks right, because it doesn't look like it's anything about the very public beach that anybody can use. But it looks very much like you're criticizing and judging somebody based on how they look, because you don't think that they belong in the neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Which is what she said, which is like I know everybody who is in this neighborhood and you don't belong. And then, when I confronted her on the nonsense because I swore not to curse when I've confronted her on the BS, she's like oh no, no, no, that's not how I meant it to look. And, like you said, well, you were like, hey, such and such, Definitely because you chose not to mind your business in that moment, it definitely looks like you're a goddamn racist, Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing, mind your business. That is such a huge trigger for me. I'm not worried about what other people are doing, and the one next door to us is the worst culprit of it, because she does it to everybody. If you park too close to her, if you use the spot in front of her house, if you do any kind of construction or work, she's over there Like she's a general contractor, with her tape measure coming in the yard. Oh, I saw you're building a deck. Well, you shouldn't have seen it because the deck's on the other side of the house. So the only way you would see that was if you came back there and looked.
Speaker 2:I want to go back and revisit the episode that we recorded last week on self-awareness right, and the crazy thing about being invasively nosy is you are not living your own goddamn life. I'm going to say it one more time when you are invasively nosy and you are in everybody's business or, as we used to say in Brooklyn, all in the Kool-Aidim don't know the flavor, you are not living your goddamn life. I'm thinking about some other neighbors and we had a problem with the local business here in the community that this person, yeah, but these people are obsessed with it. Yes, obsessed, obsessed. And so this business did cause problems in the neighborhood. I will say that. But these folks on their end took it to the next level, where it's like oh, I see a liquor delivery going there. Oh, I see, I see Like they're watching the place at all times at night.
Speaker 1:Well, clearly there's nothing to do. They must have nothing to do. Clearly Nothing to do Because I am here during the day. And don't you remember? The other one next door too, one day called you at the office because she was apologizing that someone was blocking our driveway. And I was home that day, working from home, and I was actually busy and absorbed in my own agenda. I had no idea that anybody even blocked the driveway, and you would have handled it.
Speaker 1:I would have just said, hey, I need to move right. And it's so funny because it's almost like she needs to call you to try to create the problem. But she has a problem with me, so she wanted to call so that she could talk about me to you, because that's what she does, because I guess still she's not understanding that you're on my side.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I already told her. It's like listen, my wife has already said I'm sorry that you and my wife don't get along. I have to get along with my wife and my wife has already been clear with you about her boundary, so there's nothing that's going to change it and I want to think about. I'm going to go back, pedal just a little bit once again and just talk about the difference between a healthy curiosity and invasive, meddlesome behavior. A healthy curiosity is good, right, because it makes you empathetic. It makes you ask for consent before you do something. A meddlesome person never asks for consent, they just do it. They're like well, this person needs it done, so I'm just going to do it. A healthy curiosity thinks about mutuality. Right that, if that is Well it's beneficial to both people.
Speaker 2:Yes, and boundaries, like a healthy curiosity respects boundaries. Well, that's the issue.
Speaker 1:I have next door and you told her that, yes, you said my wife has very strong boundaries and you have crossed them multiple times. So no, she's not willing to talk to you anymore.
Speaker 2:And a healthy curiosity also is represented by purpose, like it goes back to what you say and like, well, you talk about it with talking, like is there a need for me to talk? Is there a need for me to talk right now? Is it a need for this to be said by me?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. And so when you have a healthy curiosity, when you interact with someone, it is driven by a purpose, it is driven by positive intentions, whereas invasive behavior, nosiness is a disrespect for privacy, it is entitlement, it is a manipulation and it does always 100%, even if you do not think so, have harmful intentions. And, lindsay, talk about that.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, it's, I don't. I just get so worked up to talk about it.
Speaker 2:So but talk about the harmful like gossip, right, what is so?
Speaker 1:It's just not necessary. It is not necessary to talk about other people. Take accountability for your own stuff, stop projecting. Other people are not the scapegoat for your fear and guilt and shame and for all the things that you're lacking within yourself. That's really what it is, right. I always say the scapegoat is the person right who goes off and does their own thing, and I think for me, if we use this person as another example of it, I just tune her out and I don't have any real conflict with her. I just choose to really monitor how I interact with her because of her behavior. But she has to continually project, and that's what people do, right? They continually project on the other person all of their own inadequacies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you've actually said that not to pick on this individual, but this is an individual where you actually and her husband was a great dude, right I?
Speaker 1:told her to redirect her energy was what I told her to do, that she had an ailing husband and other things going on, and that she should not be worried about what we were doing, but should project her energy and redirect it where it needed to be directed. And I know why she didn't right, because, once again, like I said in the last episode, it's painful to sit and look at those things, but I'm not going to be your scapegoat, right? Yeah, yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:I want to talk about this disrespect for privacy, right? Have you ever had that moment where you didn't want to share some? You didn't want to share some stuff, like there was some stuff going on and just what's going on? Tell me what's going on, tell me what are you feeling right now and you just like, in that moment you just didn't want to share it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, but I'm very big on internalizing and going off to take my space. But you respect that and I respect that within you. Yeah, but people do that. They want to know because they also just want to be in the know, so that then they can offer their unsolicited opinion and advice.
Speaker 2:And nosiness or invasive behavior ignores an explicit signal. I don't want to talk to you about this right now Doesn't mean I do not want to talk to you about it ever, but just right now, in this moment, I do not want to talk to you about this thing. And here's the thing surprise, surprise. The more you ask you know what, the more inclined that person is not going to be to share with you. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think it also triggers this being unheard in someone. If someone were to continually ask me something to the point where it starts to get me aggravated or agitated, I would say that it's I'm not feeling heard. I said stop right. And so it just triggers those feelings in people too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you navigate between the two, lindsay, of knowing when you're being invasive and knowing when you have a healthy curiosity?
Speaker 1:By minding your own business. I mean, really, that's the short answer, right? Stop and think. Does it involve me? Do I need to be involved? Do I need to say what I'm going to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like a healthy curiosity is about connecting and understanding. So, if you are concerned and I've seen people on the street crying and I've seen it and there's times where I walk up to somebody and just say, and this is not because I'm trying to get the juice- you just say are you okay?
Speaker 1:Are you okay? That's different, right? Here's healthy curiosity. The kid that locked himself out of our house and was climbing through the window at 11 o'clock in the morning and the neighbor called the other neighbor, the good neighbor, the other neighbor called because she saw him and she didn't know him because he doesn't live here. Yeah, and so she was concerned someone was breaking into the house. That's curiosity. Please call me, because if someone is climbing through my window, I would like to know.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes. Invasive behavior, on the other hand, disregards the person's comfort level.
Speaker 1:And it disregards their boundaries.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it disregards them and you know how I feel about boundaries, but proceed. Yeah, no, but it's Schadenfrüden. I wish Hauke was here, because that's a very German word and I'm probably mispronounced it. But Schadenfrüden is this idea that you're gaining joy or entertainment off of someone else's misfortune and when you're being Well.
Speaker 1:A lot of people do that because when you talk poorly about someone else, it makes you feel better about you, Right? But in reality, the only reason that you do that and you throw those stones at the other person is because you have your own stuff that you don't want to look at, and so you cast the stones because you don't want the spotlight to be on you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you've got a rafter on your face where you can't even lift your head up, but you're so busy looking at somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're pointing fingers and making accusations, yep.
Speaker 2:I saw a comedian once at the comedy cellar in the village, in the East Village, many years ago, and I am going to curse on this one, so I apologize Because you can't tell a joke any other way. He was like a nosy person, is like a person that is standing in a mound of their own shit and then says who farted? And it's like what are you? He's like dude, but you're in your own shit. Like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:And so what do you think about that, Linn? What do you think about that? I do.
Speaker 1:Well, actually, I think it's very funny, but I think it's also very typical of what we see in a lot of people, right? I mean, look at the people that you deal with on a day-to-day basis. Need I say more? Yeah, people love to tell everybody all about what they're doing wrong, but they don't want to look at their own participation in it.
Speaker 1:I want to say something also that was a really interesting point that was brought up in this training with Gabor Maté. So he was talking about traumas, and sexual traumas in particular, and he said it sounds really bad to say this in a way, because people don't understand it right, but both parties play a role when there's sexual trauma and it's not like the other person is saying, oh yes, I want to be traumatized in this way, but the perpetrator watches people and knows who doesn't have a support system and who can't be heard or seen, and so they go after those types of people. So it's like you have to be very aware all the time. You have to know what you're doing and who you're doing it with and what's going on around you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes me think. Last week I went to church for the first time in decades. I thought the church was going to burn down all the sin that I was bringing into it. Don't bring me there, no, no, but it was actually good. Right, and I want to talk about the difference between being nosy and being like showing helpfulness.
Speaker 2:So the pastor had just come back from a trip to Cambodia, and on that trip they talked about there was a place called Holly's House, which was, I blew my mind, where these were a house full of girls that had been freed from the sex, from the sex trade, and some of these girls were as young as four years old. Right, they didn't go there, even though they were Christian. They did not go there to preach the good news. They didn't go there to necessarily convert, even though that was the ultimate hope, because they was to convert these people of Christianity. They went there to show human fellow feeling with these girls, to teach them that life, that not everyone is bad, and not to get pleasure out of their suffering.
Speaker 2:Right, not to say, hey, here's this picture of this one and here's this picture of that one, and look at how great we are that we did this right. They were like when they said, when the people came to them, like in parents and relatives, like this was a great thing that you guys did, they were like no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not about us, this is not even about Jesus. This is about what we, as fellow human beings that are invested in other human beings, that we should be doing right, and that is the difference between being meddlesome and somebody who actually cares about other people, absolutely right, and it's a perfect example of people not keeping their side of the street clean.
Speaker 1:Because when you actually look at yourself and you process these emotions and you do what you have to do, right, you're not going to go and do these things to other innocent people. Right, because it's really like taking advantage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so that is the importance of that. So let's move on to our next topic, which is the importance of setting boundaries. But Lindsey loves boundaries. Lindsey, tell us why it's important for you as a victim of nosiness and also as a person who doesn't want to be nosy Like. Why are boundaries important?
Speaker 1:Well, I think boundaries for me have helped a lot, because I really don't care what she thinks about me, but setting boundaries it's essential because it teaches people how to interact with you and it also teaches you so much about people by how they perceive your boundaries right and the most unaware people need the strongest and clearest boundaries.
Speaker 2:Right, yes.
Speaker 1:You know, and when people don't accept the boundaries, you learn a lot about them. But when they do accept the boundaries, they change the way that they interact with you.
Speaker 2:One of the things that you've often accused me of and it has been true, I'm willing to admit it now, many years later is I have been a people pleaser in the past, right, and one of the things that has been so liberating for me recently is to tell people like yo bro, no, no, you know where you can go. You can get off right here, you can go right there. I'm going to keep one going and so it's important when you interact with somebody who is, who is nosy and I used to feel the pressure, Well, I have to answer this person. Question is no is no. I'm a set of personal. I'm going to set up a boundary. I'm a self reflect. I'm going to understand my own needs.
Speaker 1:And on that note, if I can interrupt, I always interrupt without asking Well, that's what you do, that's that you know. Setting boundaries like that is, you know, not a good boundary is not telling everybody about yourself and all of your stuff. Not everybody needs to know everything about you Right, and that's a really good boundary to set with people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things we talked about even when we had the fire, and I'm not going to name who this person was, but we have somebody in our life who made a tough, a tough choice about terminating a pregnancy and then shared that with everyone and then was upset when people had opinions on it.
Speaker 1:Right. But well, and you have to expect that if you're going to share information, people are going to have opinions. But you have to be strong enough in your, in your own self, yeah, to not let other people's opinions sort of permeate your, what I would call like your psychic firewall. Yeah, right, you can't take on other people's energy and opinions and stuff. And I think you even said to me the other day and I've said this to you many times is, if you're OK with the choice you made, it really doesn't matter what anybody else thinks.
Speaker 2:Don't matter, right. One expert I listened to called it a values gap, right. He said the thing about nosy people and nosy families, especially nosy families. They would rather you live according to what makes the family happy than what makes you happy, and I know we've both experienced that with both of our and love both of our families.
Speaker 1:Of course, but we always talk about that, and I think that families would be more uncomfortable with you maintaining the status quo and not, you know, not stepping out of the comfort zone or stepping away from what the family would approve of, because then it makes them uncomfortable, which, again, then, is that's about them, not even about you, right? And I said this to you and I said it to my mom this week about, you know, the college drop in has chosen his major right $84,000 a year of college, and he's going to be majoring in sociology. And I immediately bit my tongue and I said you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to crap on that, because my parents, when I went to college, were very, very vocal about what I should do and what would bring in the most money, and I really didn't go on the path that I wanted to go on. And then what happened? I eventually went on that path and it's been very successful and it's been very lucrative, and so I've done well for myself with a bachelor's in Spanish, of all things, which has added a value to me as a special ed teacher.
Speaker 1:And we listened so much before. We're at an age where we're more aware. I wish I was more evolved when I was younger. But we listen to other people and then we live by what they tell us to do rather than by being authentically who we are, and that's a big negative. And I said to my mom when she said, well, how much money is he going to make doing that?
Speaker 1:And I said, uh-uh. I said do not say that to him. I said do not say a thing, because here's the thing about him right, he's such a great kid and he's so self-motivated that he went to his professor and he told us a list of like 50 careers that he could have with that degree. And I was like, oh, this kid did his research, he's good and you know what he likes, it Right. Why sit through these crazy classes that you hate and struggle to get a C when you can be in a profession or taking classes in an area that you like right? And so I said that's a perfect example of my mom. Keep your side of the street clean, mom, worry about you. You're retired, you don't have to support him. He's good.
Speaker 2:One of the things that's been very, very, very important to me, as both a parent and as someone who was raised in the Christian faith, is to really follow that Christ-like example, which is mind your own business, right. I have a son who's gay and I was always taught that being gay was wrong. I don't believe that anymore. I definitely believe that it's a lifestyle, it's a choice. In some cases it's not a choice, but that's his business, right. And so this idea of parents and listen, if that's what you do, to speak to my own advice if that's what you do, if you choose to shun your child because they are choosing to live a lifestyle that you do not agree with, then that's fine. That's your choice, right. That is 100% your choice.
Speaker 1:Because it's not your life anyway. So why do you care?
Speaker 2:But that's my point. I ain't sleeping with nobody, so my choice, my children's choices, are not my own right, absolutely, if as long as they're not doing something, that's no your job as a parent is to love them and support them and be there for them.
Speaker 1:And you can't prevent a fall on the face, right, you can prolong it by enabling them and bailing them out, but you can't prevent it all. Eventually it can't potentially happen, and that's why we have to Listen. Every choice that you've made in your life has not been a good one for you, every choice that I've made not great for me. But you learn, I think you said the other day you were quoting something that I had told you. Also, right Is that sometimes the worst things that happen to you are the best things that happen to you? Because they show you, right.
Speaker 1:I mean, look at my client, the one who's been in now for eight weeks, right, this guy is like, he's like a changed person, right, and he had severe anger issues, right, this guy would pop you in the face if you looked at him sideways. And now he's just like don't know, you, give me my space. And it's like, if you really sit and focus, you have to go through those hardships to get where you are. And if you didn't and I didn't we wouldn't be where we are today. I wouldn't know you and you wouldn't know me.
Speaker 2:One of the key principles of both Christianity and Buddhism is keeping your life simple, right? The Buddha talks about losing attachments. Jesus talks about keeping your eye on the prize and being simple. When you are nosy and you are in everyone's business except your own, your mind, your life is not simple, right? You definitely 100% do not have your eyes on the prize. And when you're worried about what your child, if your child is not doing something that is neither illegal or immoral, that don't have nothing to do with you, that is that person's, that child's decision. And what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Well, and also, you have to also remember that even if you teach your children what is the perceived right way to do things, or the moral way to do things, they're still going to make their own choices, right.
Speaker 2:Dr Kovey talks about it in the seven habits of highly successful people. Before we move on, it's oftentimes we get caught up in my way or your way, right. A person who is not nosy realizes that it's not. I'm the one of those. It is the right way, Whereas a meddlesome person is it's my way, it's my way, right. And what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, everything that you do is your way. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks about it. If it's your way, it's your way, whether it works or not, right, I mean, that's simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I'm going to continue to go through this. So we got caught up in the self-reflection piece, but let's talk about other things that you can do to set personal boundaries, which is clear communication. You and I both talked to our clients about this.
Speaker 1:And we talk very clearly with each other.
Speaker 2:Yes. I think that we have very good communication with each other, when somebody is invading your space, when you're encountering that invasive, that nosy aunt, that nosy mom, that nosy neighbor, you can clearly express and say and use an I statement. Don't say you are making me feel uncomfortable. You can say I feel.
Speaker 1:Because then you're taking responsibility for your own participation or your own feelings in it.
Speaker 1:I don't think that it's you know to me it's you know. You should always use those things either, but sometimes you just don't have to say anything at all, right, because, like for example with me, with the neighbor, I was very clear about the boundaries and then she kept, you know, violating the boundaries, and I said just don't talk to me anymore. And she's tried, and she's tried, and she's tried, and I just give a little wave and I move on. I never, ever, say a thing. I haven't said a thing. And then she called you to ask if I was ever going to talk to her again and I told her no.
Speaker 1:No well, maybe if she's accountable for her behavior maybe right, but the thing is is that she doesn't add any value to my life, right, like somebody who's here picking and, you know, meddling and ringing the bell and calling you to say I want to talk about five things, and the first one's your wife, and I was like ain't gonna change.
Speaker 2:It's like ain't gonna change.
Speaker 1:Well, it might change, if you take accountability Right. Yeah, I was like me and you, we have our relationship. It's fine. I hold her in our arms. Well, it's fine, because you pretend you're on the phone every time she's outside and you run in or you hide in the car because you know. I'm a little bit more forthcoming. Yes, I think you, you know, like people to have a certain opinion of you, which is fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not even. I just don't believe in necessarily starting starting fights that I don't need to have. I can find another way. Well, I've never had a fight, yeah, so I stand by that.
Speaker 1:I was very clear about my boundaries and then I said you know what? Don't talk to me anymore because you can't like, you can't adhere to the boundaries.
Speaker 2:And I respect that Right and you are what we're going to and I'm going to be consistent. Point number three of that is be consistent in forcing your boundaries, because inconsistencies leads to confusion.
Speaker 1:Oh, she's talking to me Now. She's not talking to me.
Speaker 2:So no, what you do is absolutely right.
Speaker 1:But you're consistent too. You just consistently on the phone when you get home.
Speaker 2:And you have to be flexible. Sometimes you do, while consistency is key, sometimes you do have to be flexible on a boundary.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. You have to be willing to adjust as you progress your life.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then, most importantly out of all of these things is having self-respect. And talk to me about self-respect, Lindsay.
Speaker 1:Prioritizing your own well-being, right Making you know you taking care of yourself and you know making sure that you're okay with the choices that you've made. That's self-respect. I don't do things that are like with mal intent, so I don't feel badly about decisions that I make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so let's go on the other end of this and then let's. I am the nosy person, right? What are some things that I can do as the nosy, invasive person to break that habit or to even realize or recognize that I'm nosy and invasive?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you have to be aware, number one but the first thing to do is to just be quiet. Be quiet, right, when you're triggered by something, sit and think about it. Why is this bothering me? Because it's really not about what the other person says or does, but it's about some internal lack of self-worth in a certain area that you have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the active listening. It sounds like you're saying right, pay attention when someone is communicating their boundary to you, respect their right to set those boundaries, like, this person across the way from us obviously doesn't inspect your right to set the boundary because they're still trying.
Speaker 1:Well, I think she does now. Now she doesn't talk to me anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Now I? Because, yeah, I had to tell her respect my wife's boundaries. She's never going to talk to you she doesn't have to talk to me. No, no, and it's respect their boundaries, even if their boundaries are different than you're out, right, and that goes to acceptance. Right, which is accept that people don't necessarily need your opinion. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:If you can't accept that people have boundaries and that they don't need your opinion, then you really need to figure out why. Yeah, one of the first Because it has nothing to do with the other person. One of the things to do with yourself.
Speaker 2:And one of the first things and I'll let you speak to this, I wasn't trying to cut you off is autonomy. One of the first things that we learn as counselors is to respect your client's autonomy, and what does that mean to you, Lindsay? Well?
Speaker 1:making your own choices, living your authentic life, doing what's right for you. I don't ever tell my clients what to do. I mean, sometimes you think about it and you're like I'd like to tell them do something right, but. But you can't. But in a way you help them come to that on their own right, you allow them to be who they are, but you shed light right onto where maybe they can have some flexibility right, or to shed light on the emotions associated with it, what their triggers are, what their frustrations are, and often then that brings in some more awareness, which then kind of motivates for change.
Speaker 2:It makes me think about the next thing point that I have jotted down is ask questions. If you aren't sure of how somebody wants to be interacted with, or if you're not sure what a person's boundary is, ask right, what do you?
Speaker 1:think about that. I've actually never had anybody ask me about boundaries, so I do think that that's really interesting. Yeah, I ask, I well, yeah, but you know how I am, so I don't think, you know. I think often people don't ask and they just keep trying to push Right. And I think, you know, maybe we should, you know, work on people asking for the boundaries. But a good way then right would maybe be to set expectations right, asking questions. What are your expectations for this, for this relationship or for this interaction?
Speaker 2:So you've crossed. So my next question for you is so you've crossed somebody's boundary. How do you make that repair, lindsay?
Speaker 1:Take accountability. That's it. Yeah, that's it. I did this. I apologize, I did this. It triggered this in me. Yeah, and I know that's mine to work on and not yours. Should you say because I did this? Because, oh my God, I hate that. I hate when people say I did that, because I did that, what had happened? Well, what?
Speaker 2:had happened. What I like to say I was, I was. I was me and my supervisor were laughing the other day because I was a little late signing in and he was just joking, but he was like sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. And I was like well, what had happened was such and such, but when you go to explain yourself and I, I I listened to a podcast, a video game podcast, called the giant, called the giant bomb cast, and even though they talk about video games, there was one particular episode where one of the hosts was talking about an interaction that he had with his wife, that he was in a room watching this, watching a football game, and she was like hey, charles, I need you to come wash the dishes.
Speaker 2:And he was like and to his mind, to his mind, this is what he said Okay, honey, I'll come do it as soon as the game is over. She said to him what did you say to me? What did you just say to me? And instead of, and he was like oh snap, he was like. However, I answered her. There must have been Tone in my voice and he said he could have explained himself and he could have like been like well, I said this because and this is how I said and he was like hey, you know what? I'm sorry, I should have just said yes.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, but that's also some sensitivity, right, because I, if you tell me you're going to do something, I trust that you're just going to do it, yeah yeah, but if you inadvertently cross someone's boundary because you're a nosy, because you're a nosy piece of person, apologize sincerely.
Speaker 1:Just take accountability, Because the only reason that we act like that with other people is because it's bothering something in us. Right and that's exactly what Gabor Mate said in this training is that when somebody activates an emotion within you, instead of reacting and responding, you need to go and feel the emotion and see what hole it's opening. Yes, yeah, Do you feel unheard? Are you not feeling supported? Is it opening a wound from your childhood where there was abuse or neglect or a lack of nurturing? Right, Like what wound is it opening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the last piece of this is model, and this goes back to the Golden Rule where treat others how you want to be treated, but model respectful behavior for people right. By respecting other people's boundaries, by not being nosy, by not giving unsolicited advice, by not asking probing questions, you set an example and you create a culture of mutual respect and understanding.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Well, I Absolutely you do you lead by example. I mean, that's why people have gurus, right, because you watch the actions of another person. I think about that when I go on retreat right, and it's not like an occult-like way, but this teacher is an example of kindness and integrity and compassion and empathy and you think like, oh well, you know, some things really aren't such a big deal. Yeah, yeah, right, you have to learn. You learn from example. Right, there's scriptures that teach you things, but what happens is eventually you do have to stop going to the gurus and stop going to all the reading and you have to just do the work on your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, One of the things that I crap on social media in the internet and every week, and I'm going to continue to crap on it. Goodbye TikTok. And yeah, hate me for it if you will, but that's just my personal opinion. If you enjoy ingesting poison on a daily basis, that's on you. But the problem with social media and I'm going to tell you what my problem with it is and you disagree, you disagree, I'm fine with that is that it blurs boundaries, right? People are sharing everything, people are sharing their opinions, people are trolling other people behind keyboards, like everybody's, sharing pseudoscience and pseudo facts and whatnot, and there are no boundaries anymore and because everybody thinks that they're.
Speaker 1:Well, everything is out there all the time, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so, lindsay, since everything is out there all the time, I want you to speak to that. How is that negatively impacting society? How is that negatively impacting culture, the fact that people just naturally, just don't feel the need to mind their business anymore?
Speaker 1:Well, because it makes you feel inadequate. It makes you feel like you have to do things a certain way. There's a right way or there's a wrong way. You have to. You know it's just, it's very unhealthy, it's toxic. You need to have an immediate response from somebody, and if you don't, then they don't like you, or you know you, and if you're the poster right, then you want everybody to come to you. It's an attention seeking thing, but instead it's like put your attention on yourself and figure out why you need that intention from other people. I said recently to somebody you know, you go to the chiropractor, the acupuncturist, you go to therapy, you go to meditation. You do all these things. At some point you have to stop going outside and start going in, and that's the hardest part, because that's when the real work happens.
Speaker 2:I'm going to throw some real life examples at you, lindsay, and I want your professional expertise here. I'll do my best Of how these can be addressed right. So example number one that you're at work and somebody's overstepping their professional boundaries. Your co-worker consistently asks you to complete their tasks and is encroaching on your time and your workload. How do you address that?
Speaker 1:No. No is a complete sentence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that, right, and one of the things I would say, hey, you know, with no is good, and one of the things I would try but I over-explained myself and I appreciate you and your directness is, hey, I understand you need help, but my work takes precedence, right, and if you are not managing your workload, then maybe this I can help you with something else, right, but that's good. You're absolutely right, that's the simplest way. No, no is a complete sentence. Ok, here's the next one. This is a lack of privacy and ooh, your personal favorite A lack of privacy in families, especially in my Amesh family. A family member regularly goes through your personal belongings without permission. How do you handle that?
Speaker 1:Well, it's dependent on the situation. When it comes to kids, I do believe if you feel that there's something going on, I wouldn't invade, like a diary or something like that, but I would invade the space to make sure that everything is OK.
Speaker 2:But what if you were an adult? If?
Speaker 1:you're an adult, then you have to confront the person and have a conversation with them, right? This is what I'm noticing, this is what's happening, and this is not acceptable.
Speaker 2:What if you're like spouses and spouses that go through each other's phones, which I definitely do not agree with?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a trust issue. That's a whole other situation. Yeah, but I think you're right. Right, you said it. I mean, you never know where your phone is, so you don't even know who could be in that thing. I didn't know it was that good it could be down the street right now Listen you know how many times. Oh my god, oh my god. That's the most annoying thing is. You ding that thing all day long because you can never find it.
Speaker 1:It's like how about you just put it in the same place all the time, Since you don't use it, I don't know why you carry it around and deposit it around the house and I have two phones.
Speaker 2:I have a work phone and a personal phone. And I never know where either one of those are at right. Never, but I do.
Speaker 1:And you never respond to messages. The only way I could get your attention is if I call and ring it a few times and then you check the text. That's my cue, now that I need your attention.
Speaker 2:Like I'll ask you something, but I do think it's important to set clear boundaries, especially in families, right you?
Speaker 1:clearly, and you also have to let people know how their actions are impacting you.
Speaker 2:Right, right, go ahead, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Right, because it's like if you can't trust somebody, right, you have to be able to trust, and so you can't trust them if they're going through your things.
Speaker 2:Absolutely 100%. Here's a third example. A friend frequently offers you unsolicited advice about your personal life which makes you feel both judged and unsupported. How do you handle that?
Speaker 1:Thank you, I'll take it into consideration. That's it. I like that, I like and sometimes you can say to people I'll let you know if I want you to say something, but sometimes I just need you to listen. Yeah, we do that with each other. I don't know if I'd do that with a friend, though.
Speaker 2:I think my professor said the other day, sometimes when he sits down yes, my professor did say this the other day because whereas a classmate that was offering a ton of unsolicited advice and now that I think back to it, he did address this in class, even though I called him afterward and was like this guy was offering unsolicited advice he said you know what, these are the times I sit down with my wife and he was like I ask at the beginning of the conversation are we venting or do you want me to help you solve the problem? And if she says that she's venting, he's like whoo, he's like that's the best conversation ever, because now he can just sit back and just listen.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because oftentimes, right when you do offer your opinion or your advice, the other person doesn't agree with it anyway, because that's not how they would resolve the problem.
Speaker 2:Right, right, ok. So this is another example. Your partner gets upset when you spend time alone with friends. Spend time alone or with friends and insists that they must be included in every activity you do. What do you do? That's an interesting scenario. How do you handle?
Speaker 1:that. Well, that does not impact us, but what I would say is that in a relationship, there's individuality and then there's togetherness, and so you have to let your partner know that you love them you trust them and you hope that they can trust you in return, but that you also do have other interests outside of your relationship, right?
Speaker 2:right, right, One of the things there was a couple of, if you remember the TV show LA Law and if you know anything about folks that act and work together, there was a married couple that worked.
Speaker 2:Then they played a married couple on LA Law and they said that one of the downfalls they thought that working together on a TV show would be great, but making TV shows if you know anything about how TV shows get made you were spending I do, because I went with you to the SNL yes, but you spend hours on the set, right.
Speaker 2:And when you saw SNL, when we went to go see SNL, we saw the rehearsal show, which is actually a half hour longer than the live show, because they workshop stuff, right, and they were like, OK, well, this segment didn't get a lot of laughs, we're going to pull us out, but when you work together on a TV show, it's a lot of hours on the set, and I can't remember that couple's name. But they said that working together on the LA Law actually was detrimental to their marriage, because they both realized like I need time away from this person and I need time as an individual, right, and so what do you think? A little bit more about that, Well, I mean TV shows only film for a short period of time.
Speaker 2:So you know that's their own stuff, yeah, but it was like 12 hours a day on a set like every day for like five people.
Speaker 1:I'm the wrong person to ask about that, because I could be with you 24 seven and I never get tired of you.
Speaker 2:I think it drives you crazy. Yeah, but you give me my alone time when I need, when I want my video game time, but I don't care about that, because I'll just lay there and read a book.
Speaker 1:That doesn't bother me.
Speaker 2:How many times have you told me and this is we're gonna self disclose here a personal Lindsay and Cleveland argument? I was playing bowl as gate three. I moved on to Final Fantasy VII crisis course so that I could get ready for Final Fantasy VII rebirth for all the video gamers out there. And Lindsay is like I don't know what happened to you in your last relationship, but I don't care that, you're just playing your video game Right, because every time you're doing something, you're like I'm coming, I'm coming to bed, I'm coming, I'll be right there.
Speaker 1:I'm coming upstairs and I'm like I'm not looking for you. Yeah, but that's a healthy relationship. I don't need you to entertain me all day. I mean, I do enjoy your entertainment sometimes.
Speaker 2:But in a case like that, since you said you really don't have much to add is discuss your needs like share your need for independence with your partner.
Speaker 1:Explain how but you know you shouldn't even be in the relationship if that's. If it's gone that far, yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:But if you are on that you share your needs with your partner, it's like, hey, this is why I need my space from time to time and how it impacts a relationship, and then go ahead and create those agreements right, work together to agree how much time you'll spend apart and how much time you'll spend together and make sure that your partner's needs are met in there, and then maintain consistency, which is like stick to that, right. Lindsay, what are some signs that your boundaries have been crossed and in how can you address those signs, right? Well, let me ask that question what? How do you address when your boundaries have been crossed? What do you do?
Speaker 1:Well, I just say no, Because you know like I'm very clear with boundaries, so I will sometimes say to people this is, you know, when this happens, this is how I feel, and you know I need you to bring something else to the table, and sometimes the person can or they can't right, and also sometimes you have to compromise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Identify the boundary violation, recognize when the boundary has been crossed and how it makes you feel. Communicate effectively. And we talked about I statements like I'm not saying, instead of saying you made me feel like this hey, I felt that was a violation of my boundary Proposalution. So don't just come and be like, well, this is blah, blah, blah, hey. Offer practical solutions, especially when it's in a family where a boundary has been crossed, that respect both parties needs, seek support. So, if you need marriage counseling and where counselors were always going to tell you, and if you're in the Bronx, if you're in the Bronx or in the New York or New York State or even eventually, florida, come see Lindsay and Cleveland. But seek support and, as Lindsay would say, enforce, enforce, enforce your boundaries. Be prepared to enforce your boundaries consistently, which may include distancing yourself from like the neighbor, like the nosy neighbor next door, from the situation and the person, as necessary.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I agree. So here's another one for Lindsay I'm going to throw in preparation for this episode. I had some folks like talk about some scenarios that they encountered, and so I want Lindsay's opinion on what went wrong and how they went wrong. So this is our first scenario office gossip. Alex some of the names have been changed worked in an office where gossip was the norm, and you don't work in an office, so we know that you don't do it, Never will. One day, Alex overheard a rumor about his coworker, Jordan, who was going through a divorce. Alex, driven by curiosity and his desire to be a part of the conversation, shared that rumor with others and adding his own assumptions to the story. When Jordan found out, it not only damaged their working relationship, but it also led to Alex being reprimanded by management for spreading personal information.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not Alex's business, first of all, and gossip is I don't like gossip because I think that you should never speak about somebody who's not in the room to defend themselves.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, good. Scenario two, which is ooh, this is one I think the neighbor wrote this in, so Sam, names have been changed. And to our friend Sam, we're not talking about you. Sam noticed that his neighbor Riley seemed to have frequent late night visitors and immediately assumed that something sus was going on, as the kids like to say. Without knowing the full story, sam mentioned this concern to other neighbors, which quickly spiraled out into unfounded rulers about Riley's personal life. Eventually, riley explained that they were hosting a support group meetings for a community issue. This revelation made Sam realize the importance of not just jumping to conclusions but intruding on other people's lives without context.
Speaker 1:Mind your business. Mind your business, or go directly to the source and ask yeah, okay, although mind your business is my first answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm taking an ethics class right now and, being 50 and 51 this year, I don't have that young man energy that I have a particular classmate that hasn't had. The coworker has that young man injury that they got to fix everything. I'm like, bro, like everyone. What's funny about the ethics class is every question is what's your gut feeling on this? And my gut feeling when it comes to ethical issues is maybe I should mind my business right. Here's scenario three, which is your favorite. The unsolicited advice giver, taylor, wrote in that he loves giving unsolicited advice. I'm believing that you really can't talk today. No, I really can't talk today, believing that it was helpful to friends and family. However, taylor's advice, he noted, often comes across as intrusive and unwelcome, especially when it pertains to personal decisions or sensitive issues. After a time, a close friend confronted Taylor about feeling undermined and disrespected. Taylor had to then go back and say hey, cleveland, I needed to reevaluate my approach to helping others. What is a lesson that Taylor learned in that?
Speaker 1:That he needed to mind his own damn business.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1:I mean really everything is the same here.
Speaker 2:Unsolicited advice is both invasive and disrespectful right, and it's not listening to others. I do want to do one last one, which is the social media, because this is social media right, and this is a scenario that has happened to me at work, where somebody was going into somebody's social media profile and they actually went to HR because, oh, I noticed this person has a lot of pictures of alcohol. And that happened to you Not happened to me, but it happened at work. It happened, this did happen at work and this is a real thing that happened. What do you think that? So, instead HR, instead of actually counts.
Speaker 1:Well. Have a frigging private profile. How about that? For starters, Nobody could see it in my profile.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what happened in this case is that people, when this person started talking about well, this person does this on social media and this person does this on social media it actually made other people in the office very uncomfortable with sharing information with that person because they were like this person's going to go run the HR right? I think, as you said, and you've noted it several times, the key to all four of these scenarios, lindsay, is to what Mind your business.
Speaker 2:Mind your goddamn business. Ok, let's move on as we get ready to start wrapping, as we're coming on the conclusion of this right. What are some practical tips that you can share with folks on minding their own business? What do you think? What are some things that you can practice to mind your own business?
Speaker 1:I well one of the things. Well, yeah, some of the same things we talked about in our last episode setting personal goals for yourself, meditating, breathing, journaling, learning new things and how to interact with people. Right, take it just kind of really taking care of yourself and worrying about yourself and not so much about what other people do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, one of the things I always say is like how you got time, Like when I think about our neighbors and I'll say the name of it I won't say the name of the business, because I don't need this person to sue me but it was like how you got time to be out of your window at 4 30 in the morning looking across the street at this bar, right, and the really important thing is you got to ask yourself why am I not minding my business? Right, and you really need to focus on your personal growth and personal development. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1:But absolutely. But that's what everybody should be focused on, right. And even if you're in a relationship with someone, I mean, you don't tell me how I should work on furthering my career and I don't tell you how to work on furthering your career. You figure it out.
Speaker 2:Practice mindfulness and meditation. We talked about this in the last episode. Set personal goals, such as smart goals, journaling, seek feedback. Am I a nosy mother fudger? Learn new skills. What do you think about that piece like learning new skills?
Speaker 1:Well, always, I mean you should always be learning, right. I mean you should always be reading, talking to people doing trainings or taking classes, going on a retreat. You should always be. Why wouldn't you want to always educate yourself on new things?
Speaker 2:And I've said this 100 times and I say this every episode but excessive exposure to social media and external influences will distract you from personal reflection and growth, set boundaries on how much time you're spending on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and all those other things, right, and consciously Delete them off your phone so you don't have access to them right at your fingertips. Yeah, that's what I actually had a client that was struggling with that and I was like dude, just delete that stuff. Lindsay, what about practicing self-compassion?
Speaker 1:Well, I always say that Be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself, acknowledge that it is OK to have some issues, to not always be on your A game, so to speak, and acknowledge that everyone makes mistakes, everyone does things or says things that may not be well accepted.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I like to do is engage in physical activity, which not only improves your physical health, but those moments when I'm alone in the gym, I either listen to like I'll listen to stuff you should know, stuff they don't want you to know I listen to this American life and I spend that time not only just engaging, increasing my energy level, but I'm also increasing my sense of self. I'm not worried about what the King of England is doing. I'm not worried about Kate Middleson Photoshopping pictures. I ain't even worried about that.
Speaker 1:It's so funny how people get so obsessed with that. I didn't even hear about it until days later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that she was like, yeah, and who cares? And why is it? What is the crazy thing? Why is Kate Middleson Photoshopping home pictures? You know what? I don't know. And here's the thing I don't care, because does it impact your life, lindsey?
Speaker 1:No, like I said, I don't even know these things are happening until I see that somebody posts about it or something. It's like I don't. People are so obsessed with celebrities.
Speaker 2:Establish a routine Spend in our favorite, because we're getting ready to go to Barbados.
Speaker 1:I can't get there faster.
Speaker 2:Spend time in nature. Why is spending time in nature important?
Speaker 1:Well, for starters, it's really important to put your bare feet in the earth, and you can't do that in the Bronx, but it is really important to get away from the chaos in the every day and to just be, you know, with yourself or with people you're close to. So I said it was it last episode or earlier in this episode I could buy a property that's like 100 acres upstate and not see people for months at a time, and I would be a OK.
Speaker 2:One of our shows that we watched last year was remember Love Off the Grid and you were like, wow, that is so. Remember that show, love Off the Grid, and some of those people. It was the show where, like, the guy lived in a desert like one guy. Oh, yes, yes, that guy in the mountains.
Speaker 1:He owned, like the whole mountain. Yes, absolutely no, I could do that. I really don't, but it's really because people are not awake. You know, if I was around like-minded people and having like intelligent conversations that are interesting and I was learning from them, it would be fine, but I feel like there's so much negativity in the day to day I don't want to watch the news and I don't want to listen to people talking about other people, like, and that's why I really like to be by myself, but I would really really like to go and live off the land somewhere.
Speaker 1:I always said I would go to Culebra too, right, and buy a huge piece of property on Culebra and not see anyone, because only like a tiny part of that island is inhabitable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, that wasn't our, the Airbnb we stay at. Why won't see her name? But she left her a lucrative division, a lucrative business in Washington DC to move to Culebra and live off the grid and she's happy.
Speaker 1:Oh, she said she's so happy and the property paid for itself in a year because clearly people are looking for that experience, so they go there, right? She said she paid the whole property off in a year and every time she builds a new unit on it it just pays for itself Because people. But isn't that a sign, right, that people want to run away and escape? Isn't that a sign that something is wrong where we are?
Speaker 2:It's a big sign. It's a big sign, and social media contributes to that lack of minding your business. One of the things that is important to me and I will and we said it in our last episode and I will say it again in this episode instead of minding other people's business, educate yourself. What do you think about that, lens?
Speaker 1:Always Figure out how to make yourself better. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The time that you're spending like on social media, scrolling a hundred things that are nonsense. You could be reading the five second rule. You can be reading who moved my cheese. You could be reading the habits of highly successful people. You could be reading the seven principles of making your marriage work. Reading books on personal development, psychology, psychology or any area of interest can stimulate your mind, inspire new ideas and support your journey towards self understanding and growth Right. A lot of times, the reason why people aren't minding their business and their metals is because they ain't got shit going on. Excuse me, I said I wasn't going to curse. I cursed because they literally don't have things going on. Lindsay, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1:Of course I mean. You know it's like if you're, if you're so focused on what other people are doing, you probably need a hobby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that really wraps that up. I want to just say one final comment and, lindsay, if you have anything to add to this final comment, please do, because this is your show. I'm just the. I am just a squirrel trying to get a nut in your world. It's just like producer. I'm just your producer, but read a very handsome one. Thank you so much. Redirecting your focus inward right so that you're not nosey, is a multi-faceted process that requires intentionality and practice and by incorporating everything that we talked about in this show, if you are a nosey person or if you are a meddlesome person, you know you can enhance your life by enhancing your self awareness, by enhancing your personal growth and cultivate a fulfilling and meaningful life centered around your values and aspirations and not worried about what's going on on social media, not worried on what's going on in the house next door or even the house down the street. Not worried about the latest social issue, but worry about your goddamn self.
Speaker 1:Always, always, and that is all I have to say about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, that's pretty much, and that's pretty much it for this episode of the Devil you Don't Know. Thank you for listening. If you liked what you heard here, please rate and review us on whatever platform you are listening to us on and subscribe to us on iTunes or Spotify or wherever. I can't talk today, but I think I know why I love you. I love you too, and this has been another episode of the Devil you Don't Know.